Why Aren't There More Blacks Doing Swing?
SwinginInTheHood
and events. I notice very, very few Blacks not only at the places I
go, but also when I view video tape of other events nationwide.
My Swing group used to put on a monthly Big Band dance called "Swinging
In The Hood". It was located in South Central L.A. and was perhaps the
first regular Swing event in that part of L.A. in many years, perhaps
even since the Central Ave heyday. We tried and tried, but could never
get large numbers of Blacks to attend.
For me, this is only an issue from the standpoint of history. It
strikes me as ironic that Blacks today in America appear to shun a
dance that their forefathers created, that was originally shunned by
the majority culture, then heartily embraced and eventually exported
worldwide.
I realize that I'm only in L.A., and can only see what's going on here,
which is why I'm posting this message to see if I'm wrong, or what
others may have to say on the subject. I also realize that many Blacks
today dance dances that are derivations of Swing, such as (Chicago)
Step, D.C. Hand Dance, Bop, etc...
But, I don't see them at the West Coast and East Coast Swing functions.
Anyway, if I'm wrong on this, someone please set me straight. If not,
I'm really interested in what others have to say on the subject.
Thanks.
-ron
memiki
Hi Ron -- Are there many Blacks in the ballroom world, do you know? I
am thinking the reason might be because WCS is an educated and studio
dance and not something that can easily be self-taught.....and that
economics of earlier generations might be the reason.......and also the
reason for many other races. We are seeing more blacks in WCS now (but
still not a lot). Could it be because they are the first or second
generation of better times? The following is where I am coming from:
In the Eighties, my husband took me to all the basketball and hockey
games at The Forum. Basketball was always well-attended by Blacks of
all ages; I don't think I ever saw a Black person at an ice-hockey game
and I asked my husband about this -- he was in advertising, and his
company sponsored both Lakers and Kings; therefore, he knew a bit about
demographics and such. He said that basketball was not an expensive
sport -- all it took to play when children were growing up was a ball
and a basket on any wall or garage; whereas, hockey required an ice
rink and expensive equipment.
Things are different now and each generation seems to have more than
the previous generation (black or white) and Blacks have more catching
up to do. What I wrote might not even make sense to you....I could be
all wrong.....and my late husband did not know everything (but I
thought he did :) There will surely be those who disagree that each
generation seems to have more than the one before them......I am
thinking along the lines of Black couples marrying and having children;
having the ability to work at better jobs and earn more money; and
giving their children what they did not have as children....that is my
world and all I know.
Miki
SwinginInTheHood
>
> Hi Ron -- Are there many Blacks in the ballroom world, do you know?
Don't know, but I don't think so.
> I
> am thinking the reason might be because WCS is an educated and studio
> dance and not something that can easily be self-taught.....and that
> economics of earlier generations might be the reason.......and also the
> reason for many other races. We are seeing more blacks in WCS now (but
> still not a lot). Could it be because they are the first or second
> generation of better times?
Again, I'm not an expert in this so I don't know. My feeling is,
however, that economics have little or nothing to do with it. Swing
comes from Lindy Hop, and Lindy Hop was originally created and nurtured
by Blacks -- even at a time when Whites rejected it, and the music it
was danced to, as "jungle". It might explain why you don't see large
numbers of Blacks at the WCS and Lindy Hop classes and conferences.
But, it doesn't explain why Blacks simply aren't doing the dance in
significant numbers.
When you strip away all the Ballroom inspired stylings and Country
Western arm tricks, WCS is the same Swing I, my parents, and their
parents grew up dancing ( minus the slot). Any D.C. Hand Dancer or
L.A. Bopper can dance the 6-Count basic with any WC Swinger or Lindy
Hopper.
Keep in mind that the first Swing classes and studios in the United
States were built to teach Whites how to do the Black dances, not the
other way around. Or, am I wrong about this?
For reference, see "History of Swing Dancing"
http://www.centralhome.com/ballroomcountry/swing.htm
http://swingang.com/his.htm
http://www.streetswing.com/histmain/z3wcs1.htm (Note that while Dean
Collins did not invent Swing, he is credited, in some circles, for
originating the style of Swing dancing that was to become known as West
Coast Swing)
-ron
memiki
Hi Ron -- I have to disagree with you that "any D.C. Hand Dancer or LA
Bopper can dance the 6-count basics with any WC Swinger or Lindy
Hopper" in that yes, they can dance with any WC Swinger but they do not
feel the same and do not have the basic frame, leverage,
resistance.....etc... I have danced with some of the D.C. Hand Dance
champions, and I enjoy very much dancing with them.....but it is not
the same dance as dancing with a trained West Coast Swing dancer.
Many Lindy dancers crossover to WCS and bring their great Lindy moves
with them......but if they don't get some basic training in WCS and
although they are great fun to dance with, their WCS is a watered-down
version of the real thing....but if they take a few lessons, their
Lindy background is advantageous. WCS is more than just "a 6-count
basic".
I am familiar with Sonny's "History of Swing"........but dance is an
art form.......as an art form. it evolves through changes in music and
in the world......despite its history and beginnings and roots. Dancing
is something we enjoy and do for fun. That said, some of us also enjoy
the challenges of improving our dance and continuously raising the
bar.........and preserving the fundamentals of a dance..
All JMHO
Miki
SwinginInTheHood
>
> Hi Ron -- I have to disagree with you that "any D.C. Hand Dancer or LA
> Bopper can dance the 6-count basics with any WC Swinger or Lindy
> Hopper" in that yes, they can dance with any WC Swinger but they do not
> feel the same and do not have the basic frame, leverage,
> resistance.....etc... I have danced with some of the D.C. Hand Dance
> champions, and I enjoy very much dancing with them.....but it is not
> the same dance as dancing with a trained West Coast Swing dancer.
>
No Doubt.
> Many Lindy dancers crossover to WCS and bring their great Lindy moves
> with them......but if they don't get some basic training in WCS and
> although they are great fun to dance with, their WCS is a watered-down
> version of the real thing....but if they take a few lessons, their
> Lindy background is advantageous. WCS is more than just "a 6-count
> basic".
Funny you should say that. I've heard some people say the same thing
about WCS being a "watered-down" version of Lindy, created for the
masses.
>
> I am familiar with Sonny's "History of Swing"........but dance is an
> art form.......as an art form. it evolves through changes in music and
> in the world......despite its history and beginnings and roots. Dancing
> is something we enjoy and do for fun. That said, some of us also enjoy
> the challenges of improving our dance and continuously raising the
> bar.........and preserving the fundamentals of a dance..
Here we agree totally.
And, perhaps, you are illustrating at least one angle that supports
your original statements. The sort of Swing I learned was handed down.
The Swing you're talking about is studio learned. Perhaps when the
heart of the dance moved out of the communities and into the dance
studios is, in fact, where we begin to lose Black participation.
Thanks for the feedback. It is very useful, indeed.
-ron
DanceScape Editor
Just an FYI that we actually have a "Blacks in Ballroom" Dancing
Networking Group. There are a number of our members who are Black and
they do network at competitions but also within this topic:
http://dancescape.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/221106172/m/439108372
You can contact them by Private Messaging if you wish! Most are from
the US but there have been a few internationally - one in particular
competes at a high level in Latin.
dance is ... PASSION
www.dancescape.com
memiki
Ron -- what do you mean exactly when you say "when the heart of the
dance moved out of the communities and into the dance studios"?
I also want to add that because I think fundamentals of WCS need to be
taught to a beginner WCS dancer by a professional and it is an educated
dance, I do not mean that the creativity and individualism of the dance
and dancer are diminished....quite the contrary. Learning the
fundamentals from a professional WCS teacher is just the
beginning.......and the best is yet to come. Methinks once you have a
"handle" on WCS, you are "hooked".
Miki
SwinginInTheHood
> Ron -- what do you mean exactly when you say "when the heart of the
> dance moved out of the communities and into the dance studios"?
>
What I mean is that my mind understands exactly what you are saying.
As a trained WCS and Lindy Hopper now dabbling in Argentine Tango and
Ballroom, I know how all important frame, compression, connection,
center, etc are to good dancing.
But, as someone who vaguely remembers being taught a dance called the
"Hop" as a child, and not realizing until my 40's that this dance was
one of the last vestiges of the Central Avenue Swing Era, it sort of
breaks my heart to realize that this part of our culture is gone,
possibly forever. And, as I didn't teach it to my children, I am as
responsible as anyone else for letting it die.
> I also want to add that because I think fundamentals of WCS need to be
> taught to a beginner WCS dancer by a professional and it is an educated
> dance, I do not mean that the creativity and individualism of the dance
> and dancer are diminished....quite the contrary. Learning the
> fundamentals from a professional WCS teacher is just the
> beginning.......and the best is yet to come. Methinks once you have a
> "handle" on WCS, you are "hooked".
>
You are right. When I first started doing WCS, I hated it. Absolutely
hated it. Now, that I've got a little handle on it, I love it. And I
thank God for all the folks who have continued to keep this dance alive
and kicking!
I guess, like you said, dances, like cultures, change and evolve and
move forward.
-ron
dav...@aol.com
speculate why there aren't more black folks West Coast Swing dancing.
I've often wondered if it is partly a matter of blacks being put off
by walking into ballrooms with so few minority faces. Certainly the
WCS world has done little or no outreach into minority communities, or
into any youth groups for that matter.
Have you noticed how segregated our society is? I don't mean the old
"jim crow" kind of segregation enforced by law. I mean the "de facto"
kind that exists as part of our everyday lives. Really, how many of
us count people of different ethnicities among our closest friends? I
point the finger at myself on this as much as at anybody else. We see
each other at school, at work, on the train, in the store, but we
aren't part of each others' daily lives. So why should WCS be any
different?
I have on occasion wanted to ask one of the African-American wcs
dancers about this. We've got some great ones- Atlas Griffith, Terry
Roseborough, Nicholas King, Raszell Carpenter, Faith Ernest pop
immediately to mind. But then I've thought that would put them in an
awkward position, having some white guy ask that. They may well not
think of themselves as "black dancers" at all, just dancers who happen
to be black and want to dance and have a good time without being some
sort of surrogate for others who aren't in the room.
Anyway I do think there's a heavy cultural thing at work here. When I
went to see the Alvin Ailey Troupe at the Dorothy Chandler a few weeks
ago, there was a tremendous representation of African-Americans in
attendance. And believe me it was NOT an inexpensive ticket.
Probably the "liberal" in me but it felt great to be in such an(dare I
use the word from my idealistic youth)integrated atmosphere. I wish
it happened more frequently.
memiki
> memiki wrote:
>
> > Ron -- what do you mean exactly when you say "when the heart of the
> > dance moved out of the communities and into the dance studios"?
> >
>
> What I mean is that my mind understands exactly what you are saying.
> As a trained WCS and Lindy Hopper now dabbling in Argentine Tango and
> Ballroom, I know how all important frame, compression, connection,
> center, etc are to good dancing.
>
> But, as someone who vaguely remembers being taught a dance called the
> "Hop" as a child, and not realizing until my 40's that this dance was
> one of the last vestiges of the Central Avenue Swing Era, it sort of
> breaks my heart to realize that this part of our culture is gone,
> possibly forever. And, as I didn't teach it to my children, I am as
> responsible as anyone else for letting it die.
Ron -- thank you for your heartfelt explanation......I understand......
>
> > I also want to add that because I think fundamentals of WCS need to be
> > taught to a beginner WCS dancer by a professional and it is an educated
> > dance, I do not mean that the creativity and individualism of the dance
> > and dancer are diminished....quite the contrary. Learning the
> > fundamentals from a professional WCS teacher is just the
> > beginning.......and the best is yet to come. Methinks once you have a
> > "handle" on WCS, you are "hooked".
> >
>
> You are right. When I first started doing WCS, I hated it. Absolutely
> hated it. Now, that I've got a little handle on it, I love it. And I
> thank God for all the folks who have continued to keep this dance alive
> and kicking!
>
> I guess, like you said, dances, like cultures, change and evolve and
> move forward.
They call it "progress", Ron :) I am familiar with the nostalgia
associated with the dances from the past, as well as the music that
accompanied them.
You mention you are doing some Argentine Tango. Do you ever go to
Granada in Alhambra on Sunday evenings? I have an older friend (white)
who is very good friends with her partner who is black. His name
happens to be Ron, too.
Miki
Icono Clast
Icono Clast said, in part:
> WHITE-SKIN'D
> Oakland has a majority Black population. But, at dances there, the
> number of Blacks in attendance can usually be counted with the fingers
> of one hand. Swing, music and dancing, was created by Black people in
> the United States yet very few are participants today.
> San Francisco has a very large Asian population. Many Asians
> are part of the dance community. Their proportion of the dance
> community is probably similar to their proportion of the general
> population. But the proportion of Black people in the dance community
> is far less than their proportion of the population.
Subject: Black Dancers - June 26, 1995 (1 of 19 posts):
> LU}Are there any black dancers here? Just wondering because I'm one.
>
> One of my regular partners is. She'll be in Phoenix. Danced with her
> this evening.
>
> Perhaps you can answer a question that I've often asked, most recently
> a few hours ago:
>
> Swing dancing is basically Black dancing in the senses that the music
> is Black-created Blues, R&B, and R&R very often performed by Black
> artists. The dances themselves were created in the Black community.
> Yet today, even in majority-Black Oakland, one finds very few
> Blacks in the Swing (or dance) community.
> The person of whom I asked the question this evening is White
> but was married to a Black and has children who look Black. The
> opinion was, in the eyes of contemporary Blacks, "Swing dancing isn't
> cool". I thought that answer unsatisfactory.
> As a Black dancer, you're surely aware that there are very few
> Black dancers. Do you have any idea why?
>
> During a recent Beginners' Swing class the teacher was talking about
> finding the beat. Not a person there was Black although not all were
> White. During his remarks, he said something about not "clapping your
> hands like White people". It was not at all intended as a racist
> remark and elicited appreciative ("Yeah, we're hip.") giggles from the
> students.
Another post, same date, same thread, Icono Clast said:
> Perhaps we have a tendency to choose friends of our own physical
> appearance and cultural background. But we have many acquaintances
> with whom we're friendly though perhaps not friends. This is
> especially true for those of us who are out in the world of work and
> business in general.
> There, where we do not choose those with whom we associate, we
> meet all sorts of people who are unlike us, people with whom we will
> have coffee or lunch, an after-work drink, an annual picnic, etc.
Subject: Collegiate Dancing - November 8, 1996 (One post)
Icono Clast said, in part:
> I have often commented on the absence of Black dancers in the
> Swing world. I can count the local Black dancers on one hand. The
> only woman is rarely seen at regular dances although I expect to see
> her at a Big Band gig this Sunday.
> I am particularly aware of the absence of Blacks when I go
> overseas to Oakland, a town with a Black majority population.
> Although they might be the majority of residents and whatever else
> one chooses to measure, _very_ few are found at dances.
> The Blacks who do show up at dances seem to be judged, to
> paraphrase Dr. King, by the quality of their dancing.
> The youngest of the Black women moved to Los Angeles a year or
> two ago where I last danced with her and hope to see her in a couple
> of weeks. I was pleased to see that she's still dancing.
>
> My question . . . is:
> Why are there so few Blacks dancing dances that were created
> by Blacks to Black music composed by Blacks for Blacks and played by
> Black musicians?
SwingininTheHood said:
> WCS is the same Swing I, my parents, and their parents grew up
> dancing ( minus the slot).
Ahem! I'm probably older than your parents. I learned, in high
school, to dance Western Swing in a slot. M'mother taught me what she
called "Jitterbug" (ECS) a few years before.
-- ________________________________________________________________
Un San Francisqueño quien nunca dice ¡No! a una invitación a bailar.
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ -<->- http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 -------> IClast at Gmail com
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L A Dance Club
dav...@aol.com wrote:>
> I have on occasion wanted to ask one of the African-American wcs
> dancers about this. We've got some great ones- Atlas Griffith, Terry
> Roseborough, Nicholas King, Raszell Carpenter, Faith Ernest pop
> immediately to mind. But then I've thought that would put them in an
> awkward position, having some white guy ask that. They may well not
> think of themselves as "black dancers" at all, just dancers who happen
> to be black and want to dance and have a good time
Speaking of Atlas, so enjoy watching and dancing with him. Any one know
where is Atlas dancing these days?
Ed Jay
I don't think he is.
--
Ed Jay (remove 'M' to respond by email)
Ed Jay
Ron,
I asked a friend, an American of African descent, and a professional WCS
dancer/teacher what he thought the answer to your question is. Without
hesitation, he answered "exposure." The AA community simply hasn't been
exposed to WCS. I imagine the answer is the same for CW or Salsa, no?
I note your efforts to develop a Swing dance in So Central LA. As I
recall, that was directed toward Lindy/ECS. I don't know why, with all the
exposure we've all had to Lindy, you were unable to draw a crowd; however,
someone else mentioned that Lindy just isn't cool enough for the market
you were attempting to reach. Maybe that's the reason? How, other than
announcements on r.a.d. and emails that you sent to r.a.d. readers, did
you attempt to advertise (expose) to the community?
We do know from experience that when people get a taste of WCS, many
become hooked. We saw this with our AA friend Faith and her group of AA
friends. They came out of the Salsa world, saw WCS, and quickly became
regulars at all of our local WCS venues. Although "Faith's group" is
small, their experience seems to lend credibility to the 'exposure'
argument.
The situation appears to be changing, not only for the AA community, but
also the Asian and Eastern European communities. Two years ago, there was
nary a non-Anglo to be seen in the WCS dance venues. Today, our dance
floors are populated with WCS dancers from all ethnic backgrounds.
You might consider asking the question, "What changes have taken place in
the dance world over the past couple of years that are responsible for the
increase in multi-ethnic participation in {insert dance genre here}?"
SwinginInTheHood
Ed Jay wrote:
>
> I note your efforts to develop a Swing dance in So Central LA. As I
> recall, that was directed toward Lindy/ECS. I don't know why, with all the
> exposure we've all had to Lindy, you were unable to draw a crowd; however,
> someone else mentioned that Lindy just isn't cool enough for the market
> you were attempting to reach. Maybe that's the reason? How, other than
> announcements on r.a.d. and emails that you sent to r.a.d. readers, did
> you attempt to advertise (expose) to the community?
>
I frequented virtually every Black dance club in L.A. and talked to
people face to face about the dance, it's history, what we were doing,
etc... Also, before getting heavily into Swing, I was heavy into Salsa
and actually taught it for a couple of years. My classes were a good
size, and predominately Black. I also appealed to these folks.
> We do know from experience that when people get a taste of WCS, many
> become hooked. We saw this with our AA friend Faith and her group of AA
> friends. They came out of the Salsa world, saw WCS, and quickly became
> regulars at all of our local WCS venues. Although "Faith's group" is
> small, their experience seems to lend credibility to the 'exposure'
> argument.
>
I actually organized a couple of dances a few years ago that brought
together WCS 'ers and a large Black audience. They were called
"Dancer's Groove" and held at Hollywood Park Casino. There were all
sorts of problems involved in pulling this off, and we weren't able to
continue. But, you are right, everybody I talked to was impressed by
WCS (and Hustle). I guess the problem was we couldn't create, or
didn't think about creating, an ongoing venue to foster this initial
interest.
Perhaps I should think about doing something like this again,
particularly since large numbers of Blacks (at least in L.A.) have
caught on to Chicago Style Step.
> You might consider asking the question, "What changes have taken place in
> the dance world over the past couple of years that are responsible for the
> increase in multi-ethnic participation in {insert dance genre here}?"
I'm certainly glad I asked the question I did. I'm really getting
useful feedback that is helping me to re-think some of my previous
conceptions.
-ron
memiki
Ed and Ron -- "Exposure" is such a good explanation. My good friend has
taught dance at Hollywood Park for about two years -- There were
notices of these classes in the lobby and elsewhere in the building.
Last time I checked, I don't think he has had any responses to these
notices for classes in WCS, Hustle, ChaCha or Nightclub. His classes
are filled with students from other areas. You might want to check with
him, too, Ron, on this subject.
One thing I feel for sure is that it is not a racial issue from the
side of the WCS group. All newcomers to our WCS venues feel
uncomfortable at first, each for a different reason......but I think a
Black male or female might be more uncomfortable. Methinks all of us
want to make them feel welcome and most of us go out of our way to do
so. But.....that special treatment is only in the very
beginning........then they are one of us and just dancers subject to
the ups and downs of being on the dance floor and looking for good
dances.
Miki
bgle...@thumbsupvideo.com
Baltimore last year. I think my wife and I were 2 of the 6 or so white
dancers there!
Victor Eijkhout
> I also want to add that because I think fundamentals of WCS need to be
> taught to a beginner WCS dancer by a professional and it is an educated
> dance, I do not mean that the creativity and individualism of the dance
> and dancer are diminished....quite the contrary.
There is creativity and individualism, but it's in a narrow range, and
that range is determined what a bunch of professionals, who mostly all
know each other and each other's styles, have taught.
A couple of years ago I was in Chicago and decided to check out this
"Steppin'" dancing. From the web I got the name of a club smack in the
middle of downtown Chicago. Definitely a black club: apart from me, a
waitress was the only non-black. There was a reasonable sized
dancefloor, for a club, and there were maybe a dozen couples dancing. It
was still early in the evening. It took me a while to figure out what
they were dancing, because they were definitely not doing patterns. I
guess you could describe it as "partnered grooving to the music".
What I found most fascinating was the "diversity and individuality": one
couple was doing 6-count basics that, once I figured out all the little
taps and syncopations, I recognized as a swing basic. Another couple was
doing 4-count basics; again lots of syncopations -- and really, their
body movement was far more important than the footwork -- but ultimately
recognizable as a 4-count triple-triple basic. And, mindblowingly, one
couple was doing 6-count basics, on the opposite foot!
Compared to that, our WCS kind of "diversity" is really within a really
narrow range. We don't learn from our mothers (except Ike :-) or other
kids at school (move: Blackboard Jungle), but from professionals who
have standardized the dance in a far going manner.
Not saying either way is good or bad, just remarking that you're
actually illustrating Ron's point.
Victor.
--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
SwinginInTheHood
>
> Ed and Ron -- "Exposure" is such a good explanation. My good friend has
> taught dance at Hollywood Park for about two years -- There were
> notices of these classes in the lobby and elsewhere in the building.
> Last time I checked, I don't think he has had any responses to these
> notices for classes in WCS, Hustle, ChaCha or Nightclub. His classes
> are filled with students from other areas. You might want to check with
> him, too, Ron, on this subject.
>
I'm the one who got your frriend in there. And, I've taken classes in
all of those dances from him for the past 2 years there. And, anytime
anyone has asked where to learn how to so any of those dances, I've
recommended him.
> One thing I feel for sure is that it is not a racial issue from the
> side of the WCS group.
I would tend to agree.
> All newcomers to our WCS venues feel
> uncomfortable at first, each for a different reason......
Before I even started, I was warned that the WCS crowd (at least where
I was going to learn) had a reputation for being a snotty group of
individuals. There are arrogant a-holes anywhere you go, but I can
honestly say that most of the WCS folks I've met over the past few
years have been good and genuine folks. Now Hustle, that's a different
story.... Ok, Ok, just joking!
> but I think a
> Black male or female might be more uncomfortable.
I imagine if you go places thinking of yourself first as a Black male
or female (or Asian or White or whatever) you might tend to be
uncomfortable. I''ve travelled extensively around this country (way
before I got into dance), and can honestly say that, generally
speaking, it is filled with good people who judge you by who you are
and how you act.
I generally walk into any situation thinking of myself as a cool guy
who just wants to get along and have a good time. And, that's
generally what happens.
> Methinks all of us
> want to make them feel welcome and most of us go out of our way to do
> so. But.....that special treatment is only in the very
> beginning........then they are one of us and just dancers subject to
> the ups and downs of being on the dance floor and looking for good
> dances.
>
> Miki
I'll keep that in mind. Make sure to remind me to send all the newbies
to you first!
SwinginInTheHood
I saw video of the Hand Dance finalists from the American Open last
year. To me, what they were doing looked eerily similar to WCS. What
did you think of the Tristate competion?
-ron
Icono Clast
> Two years ago, there was nary a non-Anglo to be seen in the WCS
> dance venues.
That surprises me, Ed, considering the multiplicity of ethnicities in
the SouthLand.
> Today, our dance floors are populated with WCS dancers from all
> ethnic backgrounds.
>
> You might consider asking the question, "What changes have taken
> place in the dance world over the past couple of years that are
> responsible for the increase in multi-ethnic participation in
> {insert dance genre here}?"
Good question. The answer might lead to getting more Blacks to dance
with us. I agree with the speculation that racism isn't on our side
of the floor.
Probably longer than two decades ago, a friend of mine entered a Jack
'n' Jill contest at a local club. The man who drew her refused to
dance with her 'cause she's Black. He was not merely immediately
thrown out, he was banned and hasn't been seen since.
A woman who's native to, and still lives in, The South who's old
enough to have been an adult before the advent of the Civil Rights
movement, was at a major Swing event. Her current speech is full of
phrases that only a Southerner of that generation, and earlier ones,
could utter. To her they're common/harmless figures of speech; to us
they're shocking revelations of deep-seated racism.
I introduced her to a Black Leader about her age who I knew would
hang on to her for as long as he could. Much to my delight, he
pleased her as much as she pleased him, dancing many dances together.
She appeared to be perfectly at ease and comfortable dancing with
him. To me, she said, "If I did that at home, noöne would dance with
me". I truly believe there is a New South.
"The New(!) South"
http://geocities.com/iconoc/Articles/TheSouth.html at the site at
Right in the sig.
>In 1994 Icono Clast said:
>> San Francisco has a very large Asian population. Many
>> Asians are part of the dance community. Their proportion of the
>> dance community is probably similar to their proportion of the
>> general population.
The racial/ethnic makeup of the San Francisco dance community has
been more or less stable for as long as I can remember.
-- ________________________________________________________________
Drum machines have no soul.
shiden_kai
> Speaking of Atlas, so enjoy watching and dancing with him. Any one
> know where is Atlas dancing these days?
Atlas lives here in Calgary with his wife Kyla, who is Canadian.
They moved back up here last year some time. They have done
some workshops and I see people taking privates with Atlas
at one of the Studio's here in town occasionally. My wife and
I just went out for coffee with them last week. They also come
out to the WCS dance on Friday every now and then and
dance socially.
Ian
JC Dill
wrote:
>I saw video of the Hand Dance finalists from the American Open last
>year. To me, what they were doing looked eerily similar to WCS.
Can someone who is versed in the differences between these two dances
elaborate? I've never seen Hand Dance and I'd like to know what this
is all about.
Thanks!
jc
--
"The nice thing about a mare is you get to ride a lot
of different horses without having to own that many."
~ Eileen Morgan of The Mare's Nest, PA
memiki
Victor -- For me, I feel there is a good range for creativity and
individualism in WCS, but not in every dance -- I am dependent on the
music and the dance ability and personality of my leader as to how wide
or narrow the range with which I have to work.
As far as the range being "determined by a bunch of
professionals..........", that might be true when choreographing a
dance for a another's competition, particularly if the pros insert
their
signature moves -- but it is up to the individual to take that
signature move and put their name on it. Methinks it is different in
social dancing. From my
own experience, the two pros I worked with corrected my mistakes but
allowed me my own footwork, which I think is better than my body
moves.. IMO a good teacher sees where a student's talent lies and
caters and works around that talent.
You say WCS has been "standardized", and I use the words "educated" and
"disciplined" to describe it. I think these are the reasons we feel
challenged by the dance and never stop trying to improve....they are
the "hooks".
Never had the chance to go "Steppin" -- from your description, it
sounds
fascinating and fun.
Miki
memiki
> memiki wrote:
> >
> > Ed and Ron -- "Exposure" is such a good explanation. My good friend has
> > taught dance at Hollywood Park for about two years -- There were
> > notices of these classes in the lobby and elsewhere in the building.
> > Last time I checked, I don't think he has had any responses to these
> > notices for classes in WCS, Hustle, ChaCha or Nightclub. His classes
> > are filled with students from other areas. You might want to check with
> > him, too, Ron, on this subject.
> >
>
> I'm the one who got your frriend in there. And, I've taken classes in
> all of those dances from him for the past 2 years there. And, anytime
> anyone has asked where to learn how to so any of those dances, I've
> recommended him.
>
Ron -- After a few of your posts on this thread, I realized you were
the one who set up Hollywood Park for my friend -- I am pleased to
finally have the chance to tell you that it was an exceptionally nice
thing for you to do for him. I am not sure, but I think you and I once
met.....Miki
Icono Clast
> You [Victor Eijkhout] say WCS has been "standardized", and I use
> these are the reasons we feel challenged by the dance and never
> stop trying to improve....they are the "hooks".
Let us avoid semantics.
"Standardized" "educated" "disciplined" apply equally well to the
dance to a point. What are there, ten? basic steps? Maybe they should
be called standardized foundation steps in which we are educated to
dance in a disciplined way BUT
We all know there are hundreds, if not thousands, of steps. I'm sure
that most of us in this forum have created our own steps that only we
do. I have one that's been called my Signature Step that I've never
seen done by elseone (maybe it looks worse than it feels; my
Followers love it).
If each of a couple adheres to the standard of the foundation and
protocols of the dance, what we can build upon that foundation and is
limited only by the art of our creativity and our skill within our
discipline.
I often quote someone who said: In Swing, if it works, it's right!
-- ________________________________________________________________
A San Franciscan who never says "No!" to an invitation to dance!