Gay characters in comics -- Results!
James A Berninger
Thanks to all who responded to my original request. A couple of you
I responded to directly, but work started to bog down quite a bit,
classes are about to kick in, and the incoming mail was getting too
thick to justify my taking so much time.
Here is a list of references I have put together based on the
correspondence I recieved, or the discussions here on the net. If
I'm still missing anything, here's your (second) chance to speak up!
Characters:
Ayla Ranzz/Salu Digby (LSH, especially 20)
Bryan Hand (Ms. Tree, especially Ms. Tree Quarterly 3)
Captain Metropolis/Hooded Justice/Silhouette (Watchmen)
Cluracan (Sandman, Season of Mists storyline)
Extrano (New Guardians)
Hal Carter (Sandman, Doll House storyline)
Kevin Mayer (Wonder Woman 20, Annual 1)
Maggie Sawyer (Superman, especially Annual 2)
Midnight Mink (Brat Pack)
Mitch Sekofsky (Suicide Squad 31)
Mystique/Destiny (Freedom Force, Marvel Fanfare 40)
Northstar (Alpha Flight)
Pied Piper (Flash)
Ray Monde (Hellblazer 6, 7)
Simon Hughes (Hellblazer 19)
Sir Tristan/Isolde (Camelot 3000)
Spider Sisters (Sandman, Doll House storyline)
Thymescierans (Wonder Woman, arguable, aready discussed)
Tony Mategna (Secret Six, Action Comics Weekly 624)
Books:
Black Kiss
Brat Pack
Camelot 3000 12 (Sir Tristan...uh...learns to cope)
Dark Horse Presents (The Aerialist, by Matt Wagner)
Desert Peach
Flash 53 (Pied Piper comes out)
Love and Rockets (various)
New Guardians (about all of them)
Sandman (various)
Omaha (various)
Tales of the Closet
Wonder Woman (various -- 20, circa 40 or so, Annual 1)
Zot! 32 ("Normal")
Various References:
.357 1
Artistic Liscentiousness 1
Child's Play
Nightmare on Elm Street 1
Vampire Lestat (Anne Rice)
Watchmen (for above reference, and the two lesbian
supporting cast members, seen on the streets)
Now, could someone tell me about Julius Caesar in Sandman? And in
case anyone is interested, of the 22 characters I listed above, all
but 4 are DC characters. Frankly, I was surprised, but I also
learned about some of the good books I haven't been getting, and
can't affort to pick up (like Sandman and Zot! -- I read a few to
see the references people mentioned, but can't afford to pick up the
whole series). I will, however, be getting the Sandman TPBs when
they become available in September. Is there a Zot! TPB, or do I
need to start saving like mad (as if the two are mutually
exclusive)?
Also, someone mentioned Tasmanian Devil (JLA). I skimmed his
profile in Who's Who, and, although they did refer to his defending
everyone regardless of race, color, or sexual preference, I didn't
quite catch anything beyond that. Yes, there are straight people
who fight for, or believe in, gay rights, but I'd need to see a
little bit more than this before I believe Taz is gay. Did I miss
something, or was someone reading between the lines?
Follow-up to rec.arts.comics
Jim Berninger | "This is no 'Whoops!' This is an
Green Lantern Fan, Extraordinaire | Aaaaaaaaaaauuuuuuuuuggggggghhhh!"
B0 w- c- g+ k s- e r- p | - Harvey ("Arnold") Fierstein
bern...@cn.ecn.purdue.edu | "Torch Song Trilogy"
Stephen K Jusick
In the early 1980's, a story that involved what may be the first overt
depiction of gays in mainstream comics was published in The Hulk! magazine
#23. The story was written by Jim Shooter, and involved the attempted gay rape
of Bruce Banner. While in the shower at a YMCA, a few guys approached him and
made some comments. One of the attackers started to take off his shirt before
Banner convinced them of his real identity. Banner was disgusted and
"threatene" to turn into the Hulk if they didn't leave him alone.
Anyway, the story was pretty controversial, and many letters in sub-
sequent issues dealt with Shooter's negative portrayal. Overstreet even lists
the comics as an "Anit-gay issue" in The Hulk entry. Shooter defended himself
by saying he based the story on an incident that occurred to a friend of his.
In other matters, I don't remember the original post, so I don'y know
if undergrounds were excluded from this discussion or not, but they certainly
haven't been dealt with. Howard Cruse's Barefootz comix of the early 1970's
had a gay character named Headrack, who was an artist. Much of this material
is available in Barefootz: The Early Years tpb from Fantagraphics. Other
storeies exist in the Barefootz comic (3 issues) from Kitchen Sink. And there
was one issue of Barefootz: The Comix Book Stories published by Renegade Press,
which reprinted material from Comix Book, a Marvel (!) underground from 1974-6.
Additionally, several volumes of Cruse's Wendel comic strip are around
(the originals ran in The Advocate), as well as an anthology of miscellaneous
stories Dancin' Nekkid With The Angels (St. Martin's Press).
And Howard founded Gay Comix on the behest of Denis Kitchen in the
early 1980's. Lots of material there, much of it better than the later issues
published under other auspices.
Roberta Gregory has dealt with lesbianism in her comics too.
Roy Thomas once said in an interview that a character in Jonni Thunder
mini-series was gay. I think this was the bookseller, but as I remember, there
w no overt reference in the actual comic. The mini-series was from DC in
1985.
Lynda Barry's comic strip Ernie Pook's Comeek has recently had a
sequence about Maybonne's Uncle John and his lover Bill. It ran during June
and July in many alternative papers, and culminated with "Marlys' Guide to
Queers." I can send photocopies if you e-mail me.
There is a graphic album called "Anarcoma" by Nazario, published by
Catalan. It deals with gays and tranvestites, maybe transsexuals. Very
explicit.
Has someone mentioned the portrayal of The Joker in Arkham Asylum and
Dark Knight?
Dave Sim has had an Oscard Wilde-inspired character in large sections
of Jaka's Story (available in single issues of Cerebuss and as a separate book)
and as the focus of the curret Melmoth storyline.
Strip AIDS, both the British and USA editions dealt with either gay
characters or reactions to AIDS or gays. US edition available from Last Gasp.
There was an underground called Gay Heartthrobs. Only one issue I
think. I've never seen it.
Matt Groening's Akbar and Jeff (from the Life in Hell strip) are
explicitly gay, and have even discussed getting tested. Many of these are
reprinted in Akbar and Jeff's Guide to Life (Pantheon).
I'm sure there are many more characters that have not been mentioned
(even in comic books proper), so I'll try to think of more in the next week.
What specifically, are you doing with this information? If you're
working on a paper I'd like to know how it's coming or and if you have an idea
of where it's heading.
Stephen Kent Jusick
Klaus Ole Kristiansen
> Has someone mentioned the portrayal of The Joker in Arkham Asylum and
>Dark Knight?
No, is there any reason someone should?
Klaus O K
Roger B.A. Klorese
>Anyway, the story was pretty controversial, and many letters in sub-
>sequent issues dealt with Shooter's negative portrayal.
I was one of those letter-writers, though the editors removed all of my
negative comments and turned it into a letter praising Jim's showing the
writers what sort of story he wanted in the book...
>Shooter defended himself
>by saying he based the story on an incident that occurred to a friend of his.
Actually, he alleged that it happened to him.
--
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Ian Lance Taylor
> Has someone mentioned the portrayal of The Joker in Arkham Asylum and
>Dark Knight?
In Flash #53, the issue in which Messner-Loebs (love that name)
revealed that the Piper was gay, mentions the possibility. The Piper
says of the Joker (speaking to the Flash) ``He kills people, Wally.
He's a sadist and a psychopath.... I doubt he has real human feelings
of any kind.... He's not gay, Wally.''
This pretty much matches my view of the modern-day Joker.
--
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``Learning is not like a coin, which remains physically whole even through
the most infamous transactions; it is, rather, like a very handsome dress,
which is worn out through use and ostentation.''
Otto J. Makela
I believe he's referring to the seeming infatuation on Joker's part
("Darling!"), and the bits where Joker cops a feel of Batman's ass
("Get your hands off me, you degenerate!").
--
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Robert Kelly
>
>In Flash #53, the issue in which Messner-Loebs (love that name)
>revealed that the Piper was gay, mentions the possibility. The Piper
>says of the Joker (speaking to the Flash) ``He kills people, Wally.
>He's a sadist and a psychopath.... I doubt he has real human feelings
>of any kind.... He's not gay, Wally.''
>
>This pretty much matches my view of the modern-day Joker.
>--
This is pretty much my feelings about Richard Dahlmer.
Robert Kelly
rke...@triton.unm.edu
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Mistakes were made."
Life in Hell
Jon Terje Voll
Camelot 3000 contained a guy who had been reborned as
a girl. His girlfriend was unfortunately reborn as a girl,too.
After a lot of 'moral problems', he(now a she) found out he didn't care.
There even was a sex scene between her and her girl.
More interesting, however, is Krazy Kat.
It's from 1916 and never mentions sex, although Kat seems
to be very much in love with Ignatz...both of'em male!
Does anyone know more about this???!
Email,please, to jtv...@solan.unit.no
Otto J. Makela
More interesting, however, is Krazy Kat.
It's from 1916 and never mentions sex, although Kat seems
to be very much in love with Ignatz...both of'em male!
Does anyone know more about this???!
Well, I always thought Krazy was female. It's not said explicitly anywhere,
but I can't see any reason to automatically assume a male cat as the lead...
Corey Liss
jtv...@Lise.Unit.NO (Jon Terje Voll) writes:
> More interesting, however, is Krazy Kat.
> It's from 1916 and never mentions sex, although Kat seems
> to be very much in love with Ignatz...both of'em male!
> Does anyone know more about this???!
>
>Well, I always thought Krazy was female. It's not said explicitly anywhere,
>but I can't see any reason to automatically assume a male cat as the lead...
heh. actually, it's *much* more confused than this...
some of the characters in the strip (most notably Ignatz)
consistently refer to Krazy as 'he', some consistently
as 'she', and some alternate between strips... Offissa Pupp
started out referring to Krazy as 'he', but i think by the
end of the run, he was in love with Krazy and using 'she'
(i'm not positive about this, but i *am* pretty sure i've seen
Pupp use both 'he' and 'she' for Krazy...).
as for Krazy's own opinion of the matter, well, in one of
the daily strips, Krazy makes a comment to the effect of
"i'd like to get married someday, but i don't know whether
to take unto myself a husband or a wife."
ahh, Krazy Kat. truly one of the wonderful comic strips.
-corey
James Michael Rankin
>It's from 1916 and never mentions sex, although Kat seems
>to be very much in love with Ignatz...both of'em male!
>Does anyone know more about this???!
How do you know that Krazy OR Ignatz is definitely male, hmm?
(Seriously, I read an e e cummings introduction to a KRAZY KAT
compilation in which cummings refers to Krazy as a "she." Why not?)
Beyond that, the fact that Krazy "loves" Ignatz by NO MEANS dictates
that Krazy wants to jump Ignatz' bones. (If this is not what you meant,
why do you feel that there is an implication that Krazy and/or Ignatz iz
gay?)
sheesh, get your mind out of the gutter! :-)
-jimbo
Jon Terje Voll
|> |>More interesting, however, is Krazy Kat.
|> |>It's from 1916 and never mentions sex, although Kat seems
|> |>to be very much in love with Ignatz...both of'em male!
|> |>Does anyone know more about this???!
|>
|> How do you know that Krazy OR Ignatz is definitely male, hmm?
|> (Seriously, I read an e e cummings introduction to a KRAZY KAT
|> compilation in which cummings refers to Krazy as a "she." Why not?)
referred to as a 'he'. A previous poster proved me wrong, however,
he's BOTH!(Krazy Kat that is, not the previous poster! :-) )
(That introduction...hmm is it the same album as I got? I better
check it out before I make a fool of myself again)
|> Beyond that, the fact that Krazy "loves" Ignatz by NO MEANS dictates
|> that Krazy wants to jump Ignatz' bones.
Yes, among us sensible folks it doesn't. The coconino desert truly
is an ideal society. However, imagine a relationship like
Krazy <-> Ignatz in the average Hollywood movie.
Before Krazy could say 'I truly love my li'l anjil', he(if it's a he)
would have been branded as a homo.
|> (If this is not what you meant,
|> why do you feel that there is an implication that Krazy and/or Ignatz iz
|> gay?)
No that's not what what I meant, welll, there is an implication,
but it's obviously wrong, sort of.
I'm think I'm schizo. No I'm not. Yes we are.
|> sheesh, get your mind out of the gutter! :-)
Dare I mention the sadomasochistic tendencies in Krazy Kat? :)
Seriously, I'm sorry I perhaps contradict myself, but it's hard
to talk (with sense) about Krazy Kat. Let's just agree that
the relationship between Krazy & Ignatz isn't homosexual,heterosexual
or sadomasochistic, it's just plain KRAZY :)
*Jon Terje*
PS note to James Rankin: Just forget my email, this posting
contains what I mean.(Hey why did all of you others read this
PS, it was a note to James Rankin *only*!!!)
PPS: Don't you all just *HATE* people who 'analyze' comics, pulling
them apart, pointing out fallic symbols, etc...Holy cow I never
thought I'd do that myself!! SO SORRY!! :'(
Stephen K Jusick
I havent read Arkham or Dark Knight in some time, so I'm not able to
cite textual evidence either for or against the Joker's homosexuality, but I
don't think that's necessarily the point. Certainly there are elements in both
books (although I'm thinking specifically of Arkham) that sugget or employ
homoerotic or gay imagery, even if it's just teasing the readers or trying to
be outrageous.
In other matters, the cataloging of gays in comics continues. Mary
Fleener's Slutburger Stories #2 (Rip Off Press, $2.50; subsequent issues from
Drawn & Quarterly Publications) has a 21-page story called "Tales from the Pink
Coffin." It's about Mary's friend Harold, whom she knew in the 1970's. They
drifted apart, and then in 1981 she thinks she's haunted by his ghost. Mary
ends the story with a familiar cry of losing our culture to AIDS.
I haven't described this very well, but I'm just trying to convey
a little info. I wasnlt expecting a story like this from Mary, so it was a nice
surprise. Worth chscking out. Mary's art style is interesting in its own right
as well.
Drawn and Quarterly magazine #s 4&6 have had short works by Maurice
Vellekoop dealing with gay subjects. In #2 is a short 2-page piece called
"Homoman," very loosely twisting the Superman origin around. (A gay couple
in SF found the child and raised him.) At first I didn't know what to make
of it, but I can't halp laughing at parts. And there are some nice touches.
"With some help from his gay daddies, he became what we know as Homoman!
Wherever there are excessive breaches of taste, or people in trouble...."
Then in #6, Vellekoop provides a 3-page "Heterosexual's Guide to Gay
Cruising." Not as funny as Homoman, but some of the examples rang true.
Drawn & Quarterly is a great magazine with or without thesde strips.
Work by Joe Matt, Julie Doucet, Carol Tyler and others. There's color in each
issue too. Fine stuff.
Jason Lee Smith
about whether the Joker was gay. The Pied Piper, in effect, said that he
thought the Joker was beyond that sort of thing. I think this is the
proper way to look at Joker. He's an absolute, total psychotic. He's
neither homosexual or heterosexual. He just is.
In an interesting sidelight, in the same conversation, the Pied Piper
revealed himself to be gay.
Jason
Alexx Kay
>In article <1991Aug22....@ugle.unit.no> jtv...@Lise.Unit.NO (Jon Terje Voll) writes:
> More interesting, however, is Krazy Kat.
> It's from 1916 and never mentions sex, although Kat seems
> to be very much in love with Ignatz...both of'em male!
>
>but I can't see any reason to automatically assume a male cat as the lead...
Well, if gender-based pronouns are any indication, Krazy is definitely
male. Or female. Or possibly neuter... While Krazy seems (from my
memory) to be usually referred to as "he", K is also often referred to
as "she", and occassionally "it". If you pay attention, you start to
notice that Herriman spends a lot of time calling Krazy by name, in
apparent avoidance of having to pick a pronoun that week. Krazy may
well qualify as Komic's first andogynous Karacter :-)
Alexx
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