Crankshaft 8-1
Freezer
&name=Crankshaft
Aaaand I'm done. (Deletes from Chron page)
--
My name is Freezer and my anti-drug is porn.
http://freezer818.livejournal.com/
http://mst3kfreezer.livejournal.com/
Ted Kerin
"Freezer" <free...@hotSPAMTHISmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C5A8DAFE75F3f...@188.40.43.213...
Actually, I find it kinda interesting, if only as owner of a dog that got
snake-bit a couple of years ago. We had to take the poor dog to the
emergency clinic on Labor Day.
Of course, I went crazy for revenge, and staked-out the whole snake-area,
and chopped that copperhead son of a bitch into many pieces (using, if
anyone is interested in implements of snake destruction, a tool I found at
Home Depot, intended for chopping-up ice on the sidewalk -- basically, a
shovel handle with a hatchet-blade at the end). And, as some of you know,
even then, the chopped-off heads of these evil f*cks are wired to inject
poison into you even after they'e dead, so....approach their evil dead
corpses with caution!
And I don't discount the fact that rattlers are worse than copperheads. Even
so, the vet told us that dogs can tolerate snake venom better than people,
and our dog did survive OK. Ours is a bigger dog than Tink, and was bit in
the face rather than the abdomen (another risk factor for mortality), but my
point is that this is not a death sentence for the little yappy dog, and I
doubt that the plot will play out so tragically. Instead it seems like a
friend-making opportunity. It seems like almost an "Ol Yeller" thing where
the brave dog has saved Crankshaft from cetain death, more than it seems an
opportunity to torture little animals. We'll see.
__________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 4296 (20090801) __________
The message was checked by ESET Smart Security.
Jym Dyer
> Aaaand I'm done.
=v= Drop the Chalupa!
<_Jym_>
Czaerana
Yeah, I'd much rather the snake had bitten Crankshaft. Then the snake
would have died.
Mike Marshall
>http://www.chron.com/apps/comics/showComick.mpl?date=20090801
>&name=Crankshaft
>http://foxyurl.com/qnt
>Aaaand I'm done. (Deletes from Chron page)
The same thing almost happened with Bonnie and a copperhead
as big around as my arm a couple of days ago... I ran the copperhead
off into the woods... there's probably 100 more where he came from...
-Mike "he could have swallowed my little yellow cat"
Mike B
following Crankshaft around the garden eventually, ala Farley in
FOOB...
Antonio E. Gonzalez
Yo quiero antivenom!
--
- ReFlex76
Charles Whitney
"Freezer" <free...@hotSPAMTHISmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C5A8DAFE75F3f...@188.40.43.213...
> &name=Crankshaft
>
> http://foxyurl.com/qnt
>
> Aaaand I'm done. (Deletes from Chron page)
And I find this especially annoying since it falls into one of those tropes
that bothers me.
Certain animals, like snakes, spiders, sharks, etc, are malevolent
creatures, just waiting out of sight for you to drop your guard, at which
point they will attack you for no rational reason whatsoever. They won't be
doing it for food, or to protect themselves. They're simply doing it 'cause
they're evil beasts out to cause harm and destruction.
C
JC Dill
> I doubt that the plot will play out so tragically. Instead it seems like a
> friend-making opportunity. It seems like almost an "Ol Yeller" thing where
> the brave dog has saved Crankshaft from cetain death,
That was my guess as well. I think we are going to see the gentle side
of ol' cranky here as he rushes Yap to the vet, agonizes over the
situation, etc.
jc
Antonio E. Gonzalez
Though I don't recall sharks, snakes and spiders get great
treatment on Lio . . .
--
- ReFlex76
Freezer
> That was my guess as well. I think we are going to see the gentle side
> of ol' cranky here as he rushes Yap to the vet, agonizes over the
> situation, etc.
Yeah, but there are less cruel and gratuitous ways to show that kindness
than having Random McSerpent jump out of the bushes and nom an innocent
doggie.
aemeijers
> If I don't reply to this JC Dill post, the terroists win.
>
>> That was my guess as well. I think we are going to see the gentle side
>> of ol' cranky here as he rushes Yap to the vet, agonizes over the
>> situation, etc.
>
> Yeah, but there are less cruel and gratuitous ways to show that kindness
> than having Random McSerpent jump out of the bushes and nom an innocent
> doggie.
>
climes.
--
aem sends, actually not knowing, but not curious enough to look it up.
Neil Robinson
On Sun, 2 Aug 2009, aemeijers wrote:
> Freezer wrote:
>> If I don't reply to this JC Dill post, the terroists win.
>>
>>> That was my guess as well. I think we are going to see the gentle side of
>>> ol' cranky here as he rushes Yap to the vet, agonizes over the situation,
>>> etc.
>>
>> Yeah, but there are less cruel and gratuitous ways to show that kindness
>> than having Random McSerpent jump out of the bushes and nom an innocent
>> doggie.
>>
> Do they even have rattlers in Ohio? I thought they stuck to hotter drier
> climes.
According to the Reptiles of Ohio Field Guide <
http://www.flipseekllc.com/wildohio2009reptiles.html >, Ohio has two
species of Rattlesnake, that eastern massasauga and the timber
rattlesnake. The massasauga hasn't been reporten in the vicinity of
Cleveland since 1976, and the timber rattlesnake never seems to have been
found that far north.
Nick Theodorakis
We had some massasaugas in our backyard occasionally when I was
growing up. This was in an Illinois suburb of St. Louis; we were on
the edge of the development and the back yard abutted a mixed wooded/
swampy area. Once we took a few babies we found in a woodpile to the
St. Louis Zoo; the reptile curator seemed glad to have them, and acted
almost surprised that we didn't maim them getting them over there
("Oh, they're in great shape!" I think he said).
Nick
--
Nick Theodorakis
nick_the...@hotmail.com
contact form:
http://theodorakis.net/contact.html
jaspstrain
> "Freezer" <freeze...@hotSPAMTHISmail.com> wrote in message
San Diego County, where I live, is rattlesnake heaven -- there are
tons of them. In general, however, they're very shy and somewhat
reclusive and tend to attack humans or non-prey animals (e.g. dogs)
only if they're threatened or otherwise disturbed. The County Health
Department, who keeps track of such things, reports that the vast
majority of snake-bit humans are males between the ages of 18 and 25
who have drunk enough alcohol to believe they are smarter and quicker
than a cold-blooded critter who doesn't even have any legs.
. . . jim strain in san diego.
Cindy Kandolf
> And I find this especially annoying since it falls into one of those tropes
> that bothers me.
>
> Certain animals, like snakes, spiders, sharks, etc,
And rats. Don't forget rats. (Which also carry horrible diseases, even
if they've lived all their lives in clean cages among humans.)
> are malevolent
> creatures, just waiting out of sight for you to drop your guard, at which
> point they will attack you for no rational reason whatsoever. They won't be
> doing it for food, or to protect themselves. They're simply doing it 'cause
> they're evil beasts out to cause harm and destruction.
Also, the cute little puppy doggy didn't get bit by the snake because
it was in the wrong place at the wrong time, motivated by the natural
curiosity dogs have about anything that moves. No, it was out to
protect cranky old Crankshaft McCrankypants, just because it's such a
fundamentally good creature. You can tell it's a fundamentally good
creature because it's cute.
- Cindy Kandolf, certified language mechanic, mamma flodnak
flodmail: ci...@nethelp.no flodhome: B�rum, Norway
flodweb: http://www.flodnak.com/
Dann
news:nNydncda1oH7v-vX...@giganews.com.
> Do they even have rattlers in Ohio? I thought they stuck to hotter
> drier climes.
We have 'em in Michigan! The Spring Arbor area is littered with them.
--
Regards,
Dann
blogging at http://web.newsguy.com/dainbramage/blog.htm
Freedom works; each and every time it is tried.
Now also on Facebook in case you just can't get enough of me!
Robert
a human, lies in wait to attack a larger animal than itself just for
sheer meanness. The whole sequence is annoying and ignorant.
On Aug 3, 12:28 pm, Cindy Kandolf <ci...@bizet.nethelp.no> wrote:
> flodmail: ci...@nethelp.no flodhome: Bærum, Norway
> flodweb:http://www.flodnak.com/
kat >^.^<
"Robert" <bobby...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:c9f13bbd-7fd3-493c...@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
I don't believe any snake, or for that matter any other animal except
a human, lies in wait to attack a larger animal than itself just for
sheer meanness. The whole sequence is annoying and ignorant.
Well, not that it was laying in wait...but my friend was basking in the sun
back in the days when you could do that with merely a layer of cocoa butter
between you and Old Sol, reading a trashy novel on her nylon-webbed lounge
chair. Her dad stated towards her, dead stopped, gave her a funny look and
turned right around and went back into the barn. Came out with a hoe and
killed the water moccasin curled near the foot of the chair. It didn't have
anything against her, but when she got up to grab a coke-cola, he'd have
probably not been the best of neighbors.
Snakes just happen to like places where other critters could be hanging
around looking for snacks, like lizards and mice.
kat >^.^<
Freezer
>
> "Robert" <bobby...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:c9f13bbd-7fd3-493c...@m7g2000prd.googlegroups.com..
> . I don't believe any snake, or for that matter any other animal
> except a human, lies in wait to attack a larger animal than itself
> just for sheer meanness. The whole sequence is annoying and ignorant.
>
> Well, not that it was laying in wait...but my friend was basking in
> the sun back in the days when you could do that with merely a layer of
> cocoa butter between you and Old Sol, reading a trashy novel on her
> nylon-webbed lounge chair. Her dad stated towards her, dead stopped,
> gave her a funny look and turned right around and went back into the
> barn. Came out with a hoe and killed the water moccasin curled near
> the foot of the chair. It didn't have anything against her, but when
> she got up to grab a coke-cola, he'd have probably not been the best
> of neighbors. Snakes just happen to like places where other critters
> could be hanging around looking for snacks, like lizards and mice.
> kat >^.^<
Yeah, the snake probably wasn't thinking "Kill" as much as it was thinking
"Dinner!"
Hugo Sleestak
Possible (cynical) ways this storyline could go ...
1) After ten years, the dog shows up again, held at gunpoint by the
snake, with a bag over his head.
2) Dog survives snake bite only to go through a long, harrowing battle
with cancer, which he loses.
3) Dog gets Alzheimer's from the snake bite (don't ask), and goes
through a long, harrowing decline ending in death.
4) Dog is permanently disabled by the snake bite, goes through years
of failing health, and dies a multiple amputee.
5) Storyline flashes forward several years, and we see Tink in a
vegetative state in kennel, tended to by a perky animal lover.
6) Dog dies of snake bite after two or three weeks of misery is wrung
out of the story. No long term change in Crankshaft's behavior though.
After a suitable period of time, the reset button is hit and at the
stroke of midnight Cranky turns back into a turd.
John Duncan Yoyo
Prediction there will be found a nest of little snakes or eggs in the
corn field.
JC Dill
> San Diego County, where I live, is rattlesnake heaven -- there are
> tons of them. In general, however, they're very shy and somewhat
> reclusive and tend to attack humans or non-prey animals (e.g. dogs)
> only if they're threatened or otherwise disturbed. The County Health
> Department, who keeps track of such things, reports that the vast
> majority of snake-bit humans are males between the ages of 18 and 25
> who have drunk enough alcohol to believe they are smarter and quicker
> than a cold-blooded critter who doesn't even have any legs.
Famous last line of most Darwin Award Winners:
"Hold my beer, and watch this!"
Also see: Why women live longer:
http://www.lifeinthefastlane.ca/why-women-live-longer-than-men/humor-humour
jc
JC Dill
> San Diego County, where I live, is rattlesnake heaven -- there are
> tons of them. In general, however, they're very shy and somewhat
> reclusive and tend to attack humans or non-prey animals (e.g. dogs)
> only if they're threatened or otherwise disturbed. The County Health
> Department, who keeps track of such things, reports that the vast
> majority of snake-bit humans are males between the ages of 18 and 25
> who have drunk enough alcohol to believe they are smarter and quicker
> than a cold-blooded critter who doesn't even have any legs.
Famous last line of most Darwin Award Winners:
JC Dill
> San Diego County, where I live, is rattlesnake heaven -- there are
> tons of them. In general, however, they're very shy and somewhat
> reclusive and tend to attack humans or non-prey animals (e.g. dogs)
> only if they're threatened or otherwise disturbed. The County Health
> Department, who keeps track of such things, reports that the vast
> majority of snake-bit humans are males between the ages of 18 and 25
> who have drunk enough alcohol to believe they are smarter and quicker
> than a cold-blooded critter who doesn't even have any legs.
Famous last line of most Darwin Award Winners:
Jym Dyer
>> to hotter drier climes.
=v= In today's strip:
http://www.chron.com/apps/comics/showComick.mpl?date=20090804&name=Crankshaft
"Dad, we don't have rattlesnakes in ...".
<_Jym_>
Mark Steese
news:h53u20$n0i$1...@news.eternal-september.org:
That annoys me, too, especially when people use it as an excuse to kill the
critters. They're just doing the best they can to survive, just like the
rest of us. Give 'em a break.
--
Mark Steese
=======================================================================
PS: Your second question, you thought I forgot? I didn't. I never found the
banana slug. - William Least Heat-Moon
kat >^.^<
"Freezer" <free...@hotSPAMTHISmail.com> wrote in message
I actually got interrupted while writing the last bit--I meant that the
snake that nailed Tink was just hanging around looking for moles and the
like. Gardens are proper rife with critterage.
kat >^.^<
Ted Kerin
"Mark Steese" <mark_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C5DA0B7...@69.16.185.250...
> They're just doing the best they can to survive, just like the
> rest of us.
>
Yeah, well so was Jeffrey Daumer. I take and accept your point, that
"Nature" does not have what humans call morality, but this does not mean
that we have any obligation to let our pets and children get giant chunks of
their flesh destroyed, or perhaps to be killed, by "innocent", posionous
animals, who are just supposedly minding their own business.
I also realize that such venomous creatures do not strike out of what humans
would call malice. But they have truly primitive brains, and can perceive
any sort of proximity as a threat, and will strike on that basis. Not their
"fault" morally, but it makes little difference to the dead or injured dog,
child or dodderer. Not to mention, that sometimes the proximity is only an
accidental mis-step by a human or an animal, with no "moral" element
attributable to the victim.
You don't think that pit vipers have primitive brains? Or that they are
truly what we call evil? Consider the fact their their chopped-off heads
will still try to bite you after they are dead, and are fully capable of
injecting venom into you after their death. I consider that a pretty good,
secular approximation of evil, even if the bastards do not have souls.
Mark, I respect and (I think) understand your opinion. Here's mine:
I am just about sensitive enough to learn the difference betweeen venomous
and non-venomous snakes, and indeed I have extended much effort to learn
this since I live adjacent to some woods, and I take no offense against
harmless reptiles. But I see NO reason to tolerate any creature on my
property that would KILL my dog (just for being stupid enough to sniff it --
a typical, and not-pseudo-"moral" animal interaction). I will protect my
very stupid dog over some wild reptile every time. And I won't even try to
exaggerate the situation by bringing toddlers and children into the
situation, although in fact this is a valid part of the "moral" equation..
So, if any venomous snakes are reading this :^): If I see you in my yard, I
will kill you immediately and with NO regrets.
Just call me Indy. I hate (venomous) snakes, and as much as I love animals,
I am prepared to justify the reasons, and I make no apologies for treating
venomous snakes as candidates for extermination. Nowadays we have better
ways to kill mice, that don't endanger humans.
Ted Kerin
"Ted Kerin" <nos...@hereplease.net> wrote in message
news:h5hkp...@news6.newsguy.com...
>
>. Nowadays we have better ways to kill mice, that don't endanger humans.
>
Uh...not that I'm in favor of killing mice (which I am not). I'm just
suggesting....humans have reached a point where pit vipers are not needed
under any banner of balancing nature.
Heather Kendrick
"Ted Kerin" <nos...@hereplease.net> wrote:
> I take and accept your point, that "Nature" does not have what humans call morality,
[...]
> Not their "fault" morally,
[...]
> You don't think that pit vipers have primitive brains? Or that they are
> truly what we call evil?
"We"? Don't include me in your inconsistency, please.
> Just call me Indy. I hate (venomous) snakes, and as much as I love [some] animals,
> I am prepared to justify the reasons, and I make no apologies for treating
> venomous snakes as candidates for extermination.
I fixed the above sentence for you. HTH.
Heather
Ted Kerin
"Heather Kendrick" <bunny...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:bunnyhugger-67C1...@news.individual.net...
OK, fair enough, Heather. I respect your viewpoint, and can accept any
incongruities in what I have said. So I admit: I like almost all animals,
excluding the ones that may try to kill MY animals.
Brian Huntley
> Just call me Indy. I hate (venomous) snakes, and as much as I love animals,
> I am prepared to justify the reasons, and I make no apologies for treating
> venomous snakes as candidates for extermination.
Funny, when "venomous snakes" and "candidates" are in the same
sentence, it's usually a political discussion.
Charles Whitney
> news:Xns9C5DA0B7...@69.16.185.250...
>
>> They're just doing the best they can to survive, just like the
>> rest of us.
>>
>
>
> Yeah, well so was Jeffrey Daumer. I take and accept your point, that
> "Nature" does not have what humans call morality, but this does not mean
> that we have any obligation to let our pets and children get giant chunks
> of their flesh destroyed, or perhaps to be killed, by "innocent",
> posionous animals, who are just supposedly minding their own business.
The Jeffrey Dahmer point brings nothing to this discussion, was needlessly
inflammatory, and isn't even right, since venomous
snakes/spiders/sharks/rats/ wolves/etc. are not remotely similar to a human
murderer.
So are you suggesting that the trope that I mentioned in my earlier post,
the one that started this subthread, is essentially true? That indeed there
*are* some animals that are malevolent creatures? That venomous snakes will
attack humans or dogs or whoever not out of necessity but just because they
want to fuck someone up seriously?
Because after all, we're not talking about a snake that attacked a stupid
dog, or a stupid toddler that decided to molest said snake because the dog
or toddler was stupid. We're talking about a comic where a rattlesnake
becomes aware of Crankshaft's blundering intrusion, and proceeds to
*actively hunt Crankshaft down to kill him.* Again, it wasn't doing this
for food, or because it felt threatened. It was doing it because, well, the
only answer is that it's evil and it was just being evil.
And that was my objection.
> You don't think that pit vipers have primitive brains? Or that they are
> truly what we call evil?
Nope, I don't feel they are "truly evil", whatever you mean by that. It
really sounds as if you don't know anything about snakes.
> Just call me Indy. I hate (venomous) snakes, and as much as I love
> animals, I am prepared to justify the reasons, and I make no apologies for
> treating venomous snakes as candidates for extermination. Nowadays we have
> better ways to kill mice, that don't endanger humans.
So you would advocate the extermination of dozens of species of animals off
the face of the earth because you can't teach your stupid dogs and stupid
children to avoid a very easily avoidable situation? Guess it's a good
thing you don't live in the range of some of the nastier ants this world has
to offer.
Also, I don't really have too much of a problem killing an animal that's
threatening a pet or a person. I have more of a problem with eradicating
them just because that circumstance *might* happen someday. Leave 'em alone
and they'll leave you alone.
By the way, I write this as someone who's scared shitless of spiders.
C
Mark Steese
> "Mark Steese" <mark_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9C5DA0B7...@69.16.185.250...
>
>> They're just doing the best they can to survive, just like the
>> rest of us.
>
> Yeah, well so was Jeffrey Daumer. I take and accept your point, that
> "Nature" does not have what humans call morality, but this does not
> mean that we have any obligation to let our pets and children get
> giant chunks of their flesh destroyed, or perhaps to be killed, by
> "innocent", posionous animals, who are just supposedly minding their
> own business.
The fact that you brought up Jeffrey Dahmer suggests that you neither
take nor accept my point. Dahmer knew that murdering and partially
eating young men is considered a bad thing to do; he did it anyway.
There's no meaningful similarity between murderers and rattlesnakes.
> I also realize that such venomous creatures do not strike out of what
> humans would call malice. But they have truly primitive brains, and
> can perceive any sort of proximity as a threat, and will strike on
> that basis. Not their "fault" morally, but it makes little difference
> to the dead or injured dog, child or dodderer. Not to mention, that
> sometimes the proximity is only an accidental mis-step by a human or
> an animal, with no "moral" element attributable to the victim.
>
> You don't think that pit vipers have primitive brains?
I don't think "primitive" is a meaningful concept when you're talking
about the Crotalinae, who are extraordinarily well-adapted to their mode
of life, what with their thermoreceptors and all.
> Or that they are truly what we call evil?
I'm agnostic about whether *people* can be evil, much less any other
species.
> Consider the fact their their chopped-off heads will still try to bite
> you after they are dead, and are fully capable of injecting venom into
> you after their death. I consider that a pretty good, secular
> approximation of evil, even if the bastards do not have souls.
There is as much evidence that rattlesnakes have souls as there is that
people have them. And the fact that certain reptiles are still capable
of reflexive behavior after they've been decapitated is a pretty good
indication that there's no point in trying to apply human standards to
them. There's a fairly well-known case of a chicken that lived for
several months after his head was severed. Does that also strike you as
a "secular approximation of evil," or could it be that it's just an
indication of the advantages of having a less complex nervous system?
> Mark, I respect and (I think) understand your opinion.
Bringing up Dahmer* is an awfully odd way of showing respect.
> Here's mine:
>
> I am just about sensitive enough to learn the difference betweeen
> venomous and non-venomous snakes, and indeed I have extended much
> effort to learn this since I live adjacent to some woods, and I take
> no offense against harmless reptiles. But I see NO reason to tolerate
> any creature on my property that would KILL my dog (just for being
> stupid enough to sniff it -- a typical, and not-pseudo-"moral"
> animal interaction). I will protect my very stupid dog over some wild
> reptile every time. And I won't even try to exaggerate the situation
> by bringing toddlers and children into the situation, although in fact
> this is a valid part of the "moral" equation...
If you're that concerned about the safety of your loved ones, why do you
live in an area where there are venomous snakes in the first place? It's
not as though the entire U.S. is awash in venom -- there are many places
where the chances of encountering a venomous snake on your property are
virtually nonexistent.
> So, if any venomous snakes are reading this :^): If I see you in my
> yard, I will kill you immediately and with NO regrets.
You realize that you'll just be paving the way for the snakes that you
*can't* see, right?
> Just call me Indy. I hate (venomous) snakes, and as much as I love
> animals, I am prepared to justify the reasons, and I make no apologies
> for treating venomous snakes as candidates for extermination. Nowadays
> we have better ways to kill mice, that don't endanger humans.
If human safety is your main concern, you'd be better advised to destroy
any cars that come near your property -- they're far more dangerous, and
unlike snakes, they're not alive, so you won't get any grief from
herpetophiles like me about it. You can get sets of spike strips online
from http://www.chiefsupply.com/Vehicle_Equipment/Spike_Systems/SPIKES;
after blowing out the tires, you should be able to render the cars
inoperable with a sledgehammer. Why run the risk that your very stupid
dog will wander in front of an oncoming vehicle and be KILLED?
--
Mark Steese
=======================================================================
*Worst comic strip ever.
Mark Steese
>
> "Ted Kerin" <nos...@hereplease.net> wrote in message
> news:h5hkp...@news6.newsguy.com...
>>
>>. Nowadays we have better ways to kill mice, that don't endanger
>>humans.
>
> Uh...not that I'm in favor of killing mice (which I am not).
So you don't care whether or not your loved ones die from the hantavirus?
> I'm just suggesting....humans have reached a point where pit vipers are
> not needed under any banner of balancing nature.
So far as I'm aware, people are not needed under any banner of balancing
nature, but that's a questionable rationale for killing them.
Mark Steese
Heather Kendrick
Mark Steese <mark_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> So you don't care whether or not your loved ones die from the hantavirus?
This isn't germane to Mark's actual point, but I want to point out that
house mice don't carry Hantavirus. Deer mice can. Deer mice also get
into houses, but most people who live in urban areas get house mice.
I'm kind of a defender of house mice as well as a bunnyhugger, so I
wanted to get that in there.
Heather
Mike Beede
> > I'm just suggesting....humans have reached a point where pit vipers are
> > not needed under any banner of balancing nature.
>
> So far as I'm aware, people are not needed under any banner of balancing
> nature, but that's a questionable rationale for killing them.
Oooh. I was trying to write something, but couldn't figure
out how to say it. You did it in a single sentence. Good
show, sir.
Mike Beede
Antonio E. Gonzalez
wrote:
Pit vipers aren't the only beastly way to "balance nature" when it
comes to mice:
<http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l1/ReFlex76/PA300373.jpg>
--
- ReFlex76