DS - 14 October 2008
Dann
&name=Doonesbury>
Mr. Trudeau doesn't get it. Writing for a blog doesn't require that the
subject be handled in a non-serious manner. At the very least, a serious
reporter switching from writing for a serious news organization to writing
for his own site need not abandon his prior approach to gathering
information.
--
Regards,
Dann
blogging at http://web.newsguy.com/dainbramage/blog.htm
Freedom works; each and every time it is tried.
Rob Wynne
> <http://www.chron.com/apps/comics/showComic.mpl?date=2008/10/14
> &name=Doonesbury>
>
> Mr. Trudeau doesn't get it. Writing for a blog doesn't require that the
> subject be handled in a non-serious manner. At the very least, a serious
> reporter switching from writing for a serious news organization to writing
> for his own site need not abandon his prior approach to gathering
> information.
>
Whatever Mr. Trudeau doesn't get about blogging, I would suggest that you
have a lot to learn about comedy. :)
Useful hint: Doonesbury is not a documentary.
--
Rob Wynne / The Autographed Cat / d...@america.net
http://www.autographedcat.com/ / http://autographedcat.livejournal.com/
Gafilk 2009: Jan 9-11, 2009 - Atlanta, GA - http://www.gafilk.org/
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racs...@gmail.com
> Dann <detox...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > <http://www.chron.com/apps/comics/showComic.mpl?date=2008/10/14
> > &name=Doonesbury>
>
> > Mr. Trudeau doesn't get it. Writing for a blog doesn't require that the
> > subject be handled in a non-serious manner. At the very least, a serious
> > reporter switching from writing for a serious news organization to writing
> > for his own site need not abandon his prior approach to gathering
> > information.
>
> Whatever Mr. Trudeau doesn't get about blogging, I would suggest that you
> have a lot to learn about comedy. :)
>
> Useful hint: Doonesbury is not a documentary.
How long HAS Trudeau been blogging? I think he's likely got a pretty
good grasp of how it works.
What I'm finding frustrating these days is that Google News will
headline some political insight with the name of a major newspaper
attached, and you click on it to find that it's some blathering,
superficial blog piece and, while, yes, it is attached to the
newspaper, it's being written by an idiot with only marginal respect
for sources and perspective. And if you poke around on their sites, a
lot of what these supposed "insiders" blog about is precisely the kind
of disposable lite-feature crap that Rick is chasing down -- it's
"color" and the kind of "extras" a blog can offer.
That used to be what comic strips offered newspaper readers. Now the
absurd and ridiculous are dished up in another format!
Mike Peterson
http://nellieblogs.blogspot.com
(Disclaimer: I never thought Wonkette was very interesting or useful,
even under its initial iteration)
Joseph Nebus
><http://www.chron.com/apps/comics/showComic.mpl?date=2008/10/14
>&name=Doonesbury>
>Mr. Trudeau doesn't get it. Writing for a blog doesn't require that the
>subject be handled in a non-serious manner. At the very least, a serious
>reporter switching from writing for a serious news organization to writing
>for his own site need not abandon his prior approach to gathering
>information.
And this presentation is the more shocking given Trudeau's
long history of showing people in all sorts of jobs as serious and
mature professionals.
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
cryptoguy
> <http://www.chron.com/apps/comics/showComic.mpl?date=2008/10/14
> &name=Doonesbury>
>
> Mr. Trudeau doesn't get it. Writing for a blog doesn't require that the
> subject be handled in a non-serious manner. At the very least, a serious
> reporter switching from writing for a serious news organization to writing
> for his own site need not abandon his prior approach to gathering
> information.
In this group, 'DS' in the subject doesn't usually imply DooneSbury.
I be confuzled.
Peter Trei
Joseph Nebus
>In this group, 'DS' in the subject doesn't usually imply DooneSbury.
>I be confuzled.
Although I don't wish to encourage the despicable acronym
habit spoiling the English language I am curious: have we got a
generally-agreed-upon shorthand for Doonesbury? It doesn't seem
to have enough prominent letters to compress down.
--
Joseph Nebus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jym Dyer
=v= Is too.
<_Jym_>
Jym Dyer
> DooneSbury. I be confuzled.
=v= It's Dann trying to be funny. Har har.
<_Jym_>
Antonio E. Gonzalez
Not to mention showing his water-carrying for any non-"MSM" source
of news. "MSM," of course, previously known as "The Liberal Media,"
and before that "The Jewish-Owned/Run Liberal Media" (when
anti-semitism was downright acceptable; the dirty secret they want you
to forget!) . . .
Detox
> > <http://www.chron.com/apps/comics/showComic.mpl?date=2008/10/14
> > &name=Doonesbury>
>
> > Mr. Trudeau doesn't get it. Writing for a blog doesn't require that the
> > subject be handled in a non-serious manner. At the very least, a serious
> > reporter switching from writing for a serious news organization to writing
> > for his own site need not abandon his prior approach to gathering
> > information.
>
> Whatever Mr. Trudeau doesn't get about blogging, I would suggest that you
> have a lot to learn about comedy. :)
>
> Useful hint: Doonesbury is not a documentary.
Certainly not.
But Rick's supposed transformation from a theoretically hard hitting
reporter of real news to a blogger focused on irrelevant minutia is
poor character development, IMO.
It is, IMO, DS....Doonesbury Sh!t.
I assume that Mr. Trudeau is actually trying to criticize both the
trend away from large, professional news gathering organizations. I
also assume he is attempting to simultaneously heap scorn on the
theory that blogs can generate hard news in place of large news
organizations.
Unfortunately, his methodology from both objectives is to take a news
reporter and turn him into a writer for an entertainment blog. The
choice of writing for the WaPo or for Gawker is a false choice.
IMO, blogs do four things well:
1) give amateurs (like me) a chance to shoot of their mouths
2) news aggregators - reading blogs written by people with similar
interests will typically result in links to real news stories that
will also be of similar interest [i.e. Instapundit, gas2.org, etc.]
3) edit/catch errors for the MSM [i.e. Dan Rather's story based on
obviously fake National Guard memos]
4) report on hyper-local/hyper-specific issues and/or on issues that
are generally under-reported by the MSM [Michael Yon, Michael Totten,
The Long Wars Journal]
It would be more realistic for Rick Redfern, notable journalist, to
end up filling a niche by writing about a specific area of interest
and publishing on multiple platforms so that he would have multiple
income sources. [i.e. news magazines, his one website, writing books]
But that more realistic story line apparently doesn't fit Mr.
Trudeau's narrative.
--
Regards,
Dann
Mike Marshall
Zzzzzzzzzz....
-Mike "generally-agreed-upon... D'OH!"
racs...@gmail.com
> On Oct 14, 7:50 am, Rob Wynne <d...@america.net> wrote:
>
> > Dann <detox...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > <http://www.chron.com/apps/comics/showComic.mpl?date=2008/10/14
> > > &name=Doonesbury>
>
> > > Mr. Trudeau doesn't get it. Writing for a blog doesn't require that the
> > > subject be handled in a non-serious manner. At the very least, a serious
> > > reporter switching from writing for a serious news organization to writing
> > > for his own site need not abandon his prior approach to gathering
> > > information.
>
> > Whatever Mr. Trudeau doesn't get about blogging, I would suggest that you
> > have a lot to learn about comedy. :)
>
> > Useful hint: Doonesbury is not a documentary.
>
> Certainly not.
>
> But Rick's supposed transformation from a theoretically hard hitting
> reporter of real news to a blogger focused on irrelevant minutia is
> poor character development, IMO.
>
> It is, IMO, DS....Doonesbury Sh!t.
>
As stated above, what Trudeau is mocking is something that is
happening. Is it the ONLY thing that's happening? No, it's not.
So, yes, it's a load of lib'rul bullshit. It's bullshit when a
cartoonist only jokes about one part of a large phenomenon.
Like when a cartoonist draws a gag about a car breaking down, but
fails to note that American automobiles have a much better track
record than many people think and that, in fact, a lot of Hondas and
Toyotas are assembled in US plants -- and yet the sonofabitch makes a
joke about a guy going into a garage and trying to get his car fixed!
I mean, if every car breaks down, then why are there so many cars out
there driving around? That's bullshit, man!
Mike Peterson
http://nellieblogs.blogspot.com
Rob Wynne
> It would be more realistic for Rick Redfern, notable journalist, to
> end up filling a niche by writing about a specific area of interest
> and publishing on multiple platforms so that he would have multiple
> income sources. [i.e. news magazines, his one website, writing books]
> But that more realistic story line apparently doesn't fit Mr.
> Trudeau's narrative.
>
Because it's not funny.
Rob
(Getting the joke. You're doing it wrong.)
Sherwood Harrington
I've been seeing this "MSM" acronym increasingly frequently lately,
usually in a neocontext, as though everyone is supposed to know what it
means. My guess would be "mainstream media," but that's only two words.
Can someone help a geezer out here?
--
Sherwood Harrington
Boulder Creek, California
Rob Wynne
It's a film company. Metro Something Mayer.
Rob
(Include me out...)
nickelshrink
Oh it was kind of funny, but since "DS" is taken,
i vote "Ducksbury".
--
pax,
ruth
Save trees AND money! Buy used books!
http://stores.ebay.com/Noir-and-More-Books-and-Trains
Pat O'Neill
> &name=Doonesbury>
>
> Mr. Trudeau doesn't get it. Writing for a blog doesn't require that the
> subject be handled in a non-serious manner. At the very least, a serious
> reporter switching from writing for a serious news organization to writing
> for his own site need not abandon his prior approach to gathering
> information.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Dann
>
>
> Freedom works; each and every time it is tried.
And he hasn't. I assume the "David" on the other end of the phone is
David Axelrod, Obama's campaign manager.
What's changed is the quality of the news he can gather that isn't
already being gathered by the majors. Blogs seldom initiate stories;
rather they follow up on them, comment on them, compare coverage in
place A to coverage in place B.
That is, blogs with an intent to actually inform do that. There are,
of course, blogs that invent things out of whole cloth in the hope of
capturing mainstream attention and sending out falsehoods under the
guise of "news".
racs...@gmail.com
> Jym Dyer wrote:
> >> In this group, 'DS' in the subject doesn't usually imply
> >> DooneSbury. I be confuzled.
>
> > =v= It's Dann trying to be funny. Har har.
> > <_Jym_>
>
> Oh it was kind of funny, but since "DS" is taken,
> i vote "Ducksbury".
And yet this means you agree that Doonesbury and Mallard Fillmore are
mirror images -- that each is a shrill, one-note, dogmatic screed, one
from the left and one from the right.
I would say that, if there is a right/left duality involving
Doonesbury, it's Prickly City -- that is, it's unabashedly
conservative but often thoughtful and nuanced, and not afraid to
clobber its own "team members" when they screw up. And we don't have a
code for Prickly City because most of the times it comes up for
discussion, it's a fairly interesting conversation about the work
itself, not simply a denunciation of bad, dumbass cartooning.
I haven't seen Tinsley do anything that approaches what Trudeau has
done with BD and the troops serving overseas, and he wouldn't even
have to step out of his conservative shell to do it. Not only does he
lack the sense of nuance, he lacks the ability to do anything more
than bang the same old drum.
The closest left-wing equivalent is Ted Rall, not Trudeau. If you
want to start posting about TS, well, that might be an appropriate
equivalent to DS.
Mike Peterson
http://nellieblogs.blogspot.com
nickelshrink
> On Oct 14, 3:58 pm, nickelshrink <nickelshr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Jym Dyer wrote:
>>>> In this group, 'DS' in the subject doesn't usually imply
>>>> DooneSbury. I be confuzled.
>>> =v= It's Dann trying to be funny. Har har.
>>> <_Jym_>
>> Oh it was kind of funny, but since "DS" is taken,
>> i vote "Ducksbury".
>
> And yet this means you agree that Doonesbury and Mallard Fillmore are
> mirror images -- that each is a shrill, one-note, dogmatic screed, one
> from the left and one from the right.
I think of it as meaning that *the post's writer* thinks Doonesbury is
being Duck-like in whatever strip that post-er is starting a thread about.
Dann certainly seemed to! The header would alert readers that such
a POV was to follow. You're right about the fact that a right/left
Mallard/Doonesbury duality doesn't wash, but if the post-er thinks it
does....
Well, i agree that "DS" -type codes belong in headers for much much
weaker strips, but if a writer uses one for Doonesbury, that tells
me...something.
>
> I would say that, if there is a right/left duality involving
> Doonesbury, it's Prickly City -- that is, it's unabashedly
> conservative but often thoughtful and nuanced, and not afraid to
> clobber its own "team members" when they screw up. And we don't have a
> code for Prickly City because most of the times it comes up for
> discussion, it's a fairly interesting conversation about the work
> itself, not simply a denunciation of bad, dumbass cartooning.
>
> I haven't seen Tinsley do anything that approaches what Trudeau has
> done with BD and the troops serving overseas, and he wouldn't even
> have to step out of his conservative shell to do it. Not only does he
> lack the sense of nuance, he lacks the ability to do anything more
> than bang the same old drum.
>
> The closest left-wing equivalent is Ted Rall, not Trudeau. If you
> want to start posting about TS, well, that might be an appropriate
> equivalent to DS.
Agreed.
>
> Mike Peterson
> http://nellieblogs.blogspot.com
Ted Nolan <tednolan>
pete...@SPAMnelliebly.org <racs...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>The closest left-wing equivalent is Ted Rall, not Trudeau. If you
>want to start posting about TS, well, that might be an appropriate
>equivalent to DS.
>
>Mike Peterson
>http://nellieblogs.blogspot.com
No, please.
Ted
--
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..
Antonio E. Gonzalez
Yup, MainStream Media; some of the modern kids who came up with
that acronym apparently had weak grammar skillz . . .
--
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sanford sklansky
"Detox" <deto...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5647afe6-4525-4960...@r15g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
Certainly not.
I don't think it has been thoroughly proven that the National Guard memos
were fake. And Bush really never
answered as to where he was when he should have been reporting for duty
Dann
b402-1d6...@u27g2000pro.googlegroups.com.
> What's changed is the quality of the news he can gather that isn't
> already being gathered by the majors. Blogs seldom initiate stories;
> rather they follow up on them, comment on them, compare coverage in
> place A to coverage in place B.
One of many exceptions to the rule.
--
Regards,
Dann
blogging at http://web.newsguy.com/dainbramage/blog.htm
Dann
@mid.individual.net.
> Well, i agree that "DS" -type codes belong in headers for much much
> weaker strips, but if a writer uses one for Doonesbury, that tells
> me...something.
Thanks for getting a part of why I used the "DS" in the first place. And
thanks for having a sense of humor about it as well. You've had me
chuckling quite a bit.
The other reason I used it was my own little contribution to contrarian
counter-culture. I'm trying to undermine the "Q. What's this "DS" or "DS
Alert" I sometimes see in threads about Mallard Fillmore?" Portion of the
FAQ.
Mike Marshall
>... Doonesbury and Mallard Fillmore are
>mirror images -- that each is a shrill, one-note, dogmatic screed, one
>from the left and one from the right.
Doonesbury isn't shrill.
Leaving out the definitions of screed that involve concrete finishing:
1 a: a lengthy discourse b: an informal piece of writing (as a personal letter) c: a ranting piece of writing
Doonesbury doesn't rant, and isn't like a personal letter...
Man, this is the longest I've ever been able to talk about Doonesbury
without... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
-Mike
cryptoguy
You don't think the recent arc of just sitting there naming ex-Wall
Street McCain
campaign workers was shrill, unfunny, and unentertaining? I certainly
did.
I'm astonished he hasn't done more with Palin. She's comedy gold.
Peter Trei
Mike Marshall
>You don't think the recent arc of just sitting there naming ex-Wall
>Street McCain
>campaign workers was shrill, unfunny, and unentertaining? I certainly
>did.
Search me. Since I think it is unfunny and unentertaining in general,
I don't read it. If I searched for adjectives to describe it, I don't
think I would pick "shrill", which was on the original list.
Doonesbury is a lot like Neil Young's lead riffs...
-Mike "one note..."
racs...@gmail.com
Man, this is the first time we've agreed on anything political in a
long time. That ought to keep you awake at night.
Mike Peterson
http://nellieblogs.blogspot.com
Jym Dyer
> Doonesbury, it's Prickly City -- that is, it's unabashedly
> conservative but often thoughtful and nuanced, and not afraid
> to clobber its own "team members" when they screw up.
=v= In terms of both writing and art, _Doonesbury_ at its worst
is still better than _Prick_City_ at its best (which is saying
something for the Trudeau's much-maligned art). Trudeau can
make an offhand remark about Bill Clinton's eating habits that's
much funnier than Stantis blathering on and on and on for a week
about how Bubba tho fatt. Of course, just the fact that Stantis
has been railing against Clinton all decade indicates a certain
hopeless staleness even more than his use of decade-old "Bubba
tho fatt" jokes.
=v= As for his clobbering the home team, meh. His blather
about how McCain isn't conservative enough for the contrived
Carmen character only serves to support the bogus "McCain is
a maverick" campaign slogan.
<_Jym_>
Jym Dyer
> ex-Wall Street McCain campaign workers was shrill, unfunny,
> and unentertaining? I certainly did.
=v= Ex-Wall Street lobbyists, actually. And I'll note that
he didn't *just* do that; he did it within the context of the
interplay of characters, not to mention the context of Mark
doing this sort of thing before (Watergate, Iran-_contra_).
=v= Mark does serve a "shrill" role -- indeed, he was originally
known as "Megaphone" Mark because he spoke to everyone through
a megaphone. Yet he's always worked within the interplay of
other characters. Compare with the ducktard, who just spews at
the fourth wall, or Carmen in _Prick_City_, who rants and spews
while the coyote just sits there being an ignorant lib'rul.
<_Jym_>
Mike Marshall
>Man, this is the first time we've agreed on anything political in a
>long time. That ought to keep you awake at night.
Nahh... a couple of Ambiens and a Sunday Doonesbury, and I'll be out
like a light...
-Mike
racs...@gmail.com
I think you're unintentionally proving my point -- that both
Doonesbury and Prickly City have a great deal more nuance than
doctrinaire readers will see.
Mike Peterson
http://nellieblogs.blogspot.com
Jym Dyer
>> or Carmen in _Prick_City_, who rants and spews while the
>> coyote just sits there being an ignorant lib'rul.
> I think you're unintentionally proving my point -- that both
> Doonesbury and Prickly City have a great deal more nuance
> than doctrinaire readers will see.
=v= I'm not seeing much nuance in the latter. If your point
is how doctrinaire I am, pfui, show me the nuance.
=v= The ducktard does at times switch form the fourth role
to straw dog hapless ignorant lib'rul professor guy, or straw
dog hapless ignorant lib'rul media guy, or straw dog strident
feminist person, etc. In _Prickly_City_ the coyote gets to
be the all-purpose hapless ignorant lib'rul straw dog.
=v= In Wednesday's strip he is confused with a cat, which
in some strips could be a self-deprecating comment about the
artist, but in this strip just underscores the character's
haplessness.
<_Jym_>