ALL IDIOTS IN THE RELIGION DEBATE
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
Brett George (br...@ior.com) wrote:
: Change the damn tagline. Better yet, take it private. This has absolutely
: nothing to do with comics and is an insult to Planet Comics.
The debate arose because the actions against Planet Comics were undertaken
by members of the religious right who do not believe in the separation of
church and state, among other things. The thread drift is understandable.
While I suggest to folks on the thread that they at least insert an
ObComics where they can, I suggest to folks like you who are bored with
the thread that you killfile it or skip it. Nobody's forcing you to read
it, just like nobody was forcing porn on Planet Comics customers.
- Elayne
--
"The kiss originated when the first male reptile licked the first female
reptile, implying in a subtle, complimentary way that she was as succulent
as the small reptile he had for dinner the night before."
- F. Scott Fitzgerald
Timothy J. Butler
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput wrote:
>
>
> The debate arose because the actions against Planet Comics were undertaken
> by members of the religious right who do not believe in the separation of
> church and state, among other things. The thread drift is understandable.
Planet Comics were undertaken by local law enforcement and the courts, not
the "religious right", whoever they are. Scapegoating is a terrible thing.
Obcomics" Retcons are hard enough to take in comics. They really stink in real
life, where they are more commonly referred to as historical revisionism.
> - Elayne
Tim
DCOJohanna
>>The thread drift is understandable.<<
But still off-topic.
>>I suggest to folks like you who are bored with
the thread that you killfile it or skip it.<<
Wow, Elayne, I didn't realize that not only had you given up netcopping,
but you'd joined the "doesn't matter where I post" people. :)
Johanna
Justin Erickson-Savage
In article <343E1D...@ford.com>, "Timothy J. Butler"
<tbu...@ford.com> wrote:
> Elayne Wechsler-Chaput wrote:
> >
> >
> > The debate arose because the actions against Planet Comics were undertaken
> > by members of the religious right who do not believe in the separation of
> > church and state, among other things. The thread drift is understandable.
> >Just keeping you honest, Elayne. It is my understanding that the
actions against
> Planet Comics were undertaken by local law enforcement and the courts, not
> the "religious right", whoever they are. Scapegoating is a terrible thing.
hmmmm....they look an awful lot alike in this case....
savage
natural_spring_talon
In article <brett-10109...@204.212.119.14>, br...@ior.com says...
>
>Change the damn tagline.
I think you mean subject line. My tagline is a personal thing, sir.
>Better yet, take it private.
I think we're almost done.
>This has absolutely nothing to do with comics
Well it kinda tangentially in a censoring kinda way does...
>and is an insult to Planet Comics.
How can that be? Planet Comics is no longer in existence.
>Sheeeesh already!
I mean!
Talon T M
natural_spring_talon
In article <61l5ab$e...@panix.com>, fire...@panix.com says...
>
>Brett George (br...@ior.com) wrote:
>: Change the damn tagline. Better yet, take it private. This has absolutely
>: nothing to do with comics and is an insult to Planet Comics.
>
>The debate arose because the actions against Planet Comics were undertaken
>by members of the religious right who do not believe in the separation of
>church and state, among other things.
It wasn't just the 'religious right'...it was the decent citizens of Oklahoma
against obscenity...sure they went too far, but the Liberal Left censoring the
Bible from public schools gave them a great example of how to get rid of the
competition.
Talon T M
Brett George
Change the damn tagline. Better yet, take it private. This has absolutely
already!
brett
--
All spammers will be systematically hunted down and mentally erased.
Not that there is all that much TO erase!
------------------------------------------------
Brett George/Banzai Productions/Graphic Design & Illustration
5020 N. Alameda Blvd. Spokane WA 99205 USA
Tom Vincent
In article <61lbsc$3...@drn.zippo.com>, Natural Spring Talon wrote:
>In article <61l5ab$e...@panix.com>, fire...@panix.com says...
>>
>>Brett George (br...@ior.com) wrote:
>>: Change the damn tagline. Better yet, take it private. This has absolutely
>>: nothing to do with comics and is an insult to Planet Comics.
>>
>>The debate arose because the actions against Planet Comics were undertaken
>>by members of the religious right who do not believe in the separation of
>>church and state, among other things.
>
>It wasn't just the 'religious right'...it was the decent citizens of Oklahoma
>against obscenity...sure they went too far, but the Liberal Left censoring the
>Bible from public schools gave them a great example of how to get rid of the
>competition.
Rick, with all due respect, BULLSHIT!
it had *everything* to do with the religious right, and the vibes I'm
getting are that the 'decent citizens of Oklahoma" are a might bit pissed
about it.
---Tom Vincent
Her eyes brimmed with tears. "The Princess is dead, and now the Mother is
gone too. Who will care for all those people? Who will care for the infirm
and the unwanted? Who will do the good works now?" The simplicity of the
answer startled her. "Us", came the reply, "all of us."
PatDOneill
In article <61lbsc$3...@drn.zippo.com>, Natural Spring Talon writes:
>It wasn't just the 'religious right'...it was the decent citizens of Oklahoma
>against obscenity...sure they went too far, but the Liberal Left censoring
>the
>Bible from public schools gave them a great example of how to get rid of the
>competition.
I suspect that if you asked "the decent citizens of Oklahoma" most
of them wouldn't know a thing about the case.
Best, Pat
The words and opinions expressed are those of Patrick Daniel O'Neill and
do not represent the opinions or policies of WIZARD: THE GUIDE TO COMICS.
zen and the art of damonance
DCOJohanna wrote:
>
> >>The thread drift is understandable.<<
>
>
> >>I suggest to folks like you who are bored with
> the thread that you killfile it or skip it.<<
>
> Wow, Elayne, I didn't realize that not only had you given up netcopping,
> but you'd joined the "doesn't matter where I post" people. :)
if you're going to keep saying things i agree with
i'm gonna have to seriously reconsider you.
shame on you!
this is all i'm gonna say because
saying any more will fuel
elayne's paranoid persecution complex.
--
'Do you believe in ghosts?' "No...they are unscientific...They
contain no matter, and have no energy, and therefore, according
to the laws of science, do not exist except in people's minds...
Of course, the laws of science contain no matter and energy and
therefore do not exist except in people's minds. It's best to be
completely scientific about the whole thing and refuse to believe
in either ghosts or the laws of science." Robert Pirsig.
zen and the art of damonance
Natural, Spring, Talon wrote:
>
> In article <61l5ab$e...@panix.com>, fire...@panix.com says...
> >
> >Brett George (br...@ior.com) wrote:
> >: Change the damn tagline. Better yet, take it private. This has absolutely
> >: nothing to do with comics and is an insult to Planet Comics.
> >
> >The debate arose because the actions against Planet Comics were undertaken
> >by members of the religious right who do not believe in the separation of
> >church and state, among other things.
>
> against obscenity...
wow. i thought it was just the prosecutors.
i didn't know there was a mob involved.
the things you learn on usenet.
sure they went too far, but the Liberal Left censoring the
> Bible from public schools gave them a great example of how to get rid of the
> competition.
wow. so enforcing the first ammendment is against the first ammendment!
NIFTY!
natural_spring_talon
In article <19971010192...@ladder01.news.aol.com>, patdo...@aol.com
says...
>>the
>>Bible from public schools gave them a great example of how to get rid of the
>>competition.
>
>of them wouldn't know a thing about the case.
I suspect that if you asked "the Religious Right" most of them wouldn't know a
thing about the case, either.
Talon T M
natural_spring_talon
In article <343EFE...@po.cwru.edu>, zen says...
>
>Natural, Spring, Talon wrote:
>>
>> In article <61l5ab$e...@panix.com>, fire...@panix.com says...
>> >
>> >Brett George (br...@ior.com) wrote:
>> >: Change the damn tagline. Better yet, take it private. This has absolutely
>> >: nothing to do with comics and is an insult to Planet Comics.
>> >
>> >The debate arose because the actions against Planet Comics were undertaken
>> >by members of the religious right who do not believe in the separation of
>> >church and state, among other things.
>>
>
>wow. i thought it was just the prosecutors.
>
>i didn't know there was a mob involved.
>
>the things you learn on usenet.
Yes, there was a fight between the religious right and the decent citizens of
Oklahoma just outside the parking lot. Meanwhile the law secretly entered and
busted the owners before the mob knew what had happened. I bet you didn't know
all this went on.
>sure they went too far, but the Liberal Left censoring the
>> Bible from public schools gave them a great example of how to get rid of the
>> competition.
>
>wow. so enforcing the first ammendment is against the first ammendment!
Claiming to enforce the first amendment is against the first amendment.
Enforcing the first amendment is against the second amendment, if you consider
The Word as a Sword.
>NIFTY!
What a place, this Earth!
Talon T M
natural_spring_talon
In article <tom127-ya0236800...@news.capital.net>,
tom...@SPAMBLOCKcapital.net says...
>
>In article <61lbsc$3...@drn.zippo.com>, Natural Spring Talon wrote:
>
>>In article <61l5ab$e...@panix.com>, fire...@panix.com says...
>>>
>>>Brett George (br...@ior.com) wrote:
>>>: Change the damn tagline. Better yet, take it private. This has absolutely
>>>: nothing to do with comics and is an insult to Planet Comics.
>>>
>>>The debate arose because the actions against Planet Comics were undertaken
>>>by members of the religious right who do not believe in the separation of
>>>church and state, among other things.
>>
>>It wasn't just the 'religious right'...it was the decent citizens of Oklahoma
>>Bible from public schools gave them a great example of how to get rid of the
>>competition.
>
>
>it had *everything* to do with the religious right, and the vibes I'm
>getting are that the 'decent citizens of Oklahoma" are a might bit pissed
>about it.
Of course you have the right to believe that the religious right are the only
ones involved in this case, but I think the main culprit here is politics, not
religion.
Talon T M
natural_spring_talon
>>
>> >>The thread drift is understandable.<<
>>
>> But still off-topic.
>>
>> >>I suggest to folks like you who are bored with
>> the thread that you killfile it or skip it.<<
>>
>> Wow, Elayne, I didn't realize that not only had you given up netcopping,
>> but you'd joined the "doesn't matter where I post" people. :)
>
>if you're going to keep saying things i agree with
>i'm gonna have to seriously reconsider you.
Gah! Me too! How can it *possibly* be that the THREE of US agree on
anything?!?!
>shame on you!
And on me.
>this is all i'm gonna say because
>saying any more will fuel
>elayne's paranoid persecution complex.
Ooooooops!
Talon T M
Vermilion
In article tom...@SPAMBLOCKcapital.net (Tom Vincent) writes:
>In article <61lbsc$3...@drn.zippo.com>, Natural Spring Talon wrote:
>>In article <61l5ab$e...@panix.com>, fire...@panix.com says...
>>>
>>>Brett George (br...@ior.com) wrote:
>>>: Change the damn tagline. Better yet, take it private. This has absolutely
>>>: nothing to do with comics and is an insult to Planet Comics.
>>>
>>>The debate arose because the actions against Planet Comics were undertaken
>>>by members of the religious right who do not believe in the separation of
>>>church and state, among other things.
>>
>>It wasn't just the 'religious right'...it was the decent citizens of Oklahoma
>>against obscenity...sure they went too far, but the Liberal Left censoring the
>>Bible from public schools gave them a great example of how to get rid of the
>>competition.
>Rick, with all due respect, BULLSHIT!
>it had *everything* to do with the religious right, and the vibes I'm
>getting are that the 'decent citizens of Oklahoma" are a might bit pissed
>about it.
So, umm.... you're going to turn this Anti Religion-Debate titled thread
into another religion debate thread? How very colonistic of you all....
- Vermilion, who has to kill 2 threads now?
Tom Vincent
In article <61mu4k$b...@drn.zippo.com>, Natural Spring Talon wrote:
>In article <tom127-ya0236800...@news.capital.net>,
>tom...@SPAMBLOCKcapital.net says...
>>
>>In article <61lbsc$3...@drn.zippo.com>, Natural Spring Talon wrote:
>>
>>>In article <61l5ab$e...@panix.com>, fire...@panix.com says...
>>>>
>>>>The debate arose because the actions against Planet Comics were undertaken
>>>>by members of the religious right who do not believe in the separation of
>>>>church and state, among other things.
>>>
>>>It wasn't just the 'religious right'...it was the decent citizens of Oklahoma
>>>against obscenity...sure they went too far, but the Liberal Left
censoring the
>>>Bible from public schools gave them a great example of how to get rid of the
>>>competition.
>>
>>Rick, with all due respect, BULLSHIT!
>>
>>it had *everything* to do with the religious right, and the vibes I'm
>>getting are that the 'decent citizens of Oklahoma" are a might bit pissed
>>about it.
>
>Of course you have the right to believe that the religious right are the only
>ones involved in this case, but I think the main culprit here is politics, not
>religion.
Absolutely- the political rewards given for appeasing the religious right.
Wake up.
natural_spring_talon
In article <tom127-ya0236800...@news.capital.net>,
tom...@SPAMBLOCKcapital.net says...
>
>In article <61mu4k$b...@drn.zippo.com>, Natural Spring Talon wrote:
>>Of course you have the right to believe that the religious right are the only
>>ones involved in this case, but I think the main culprit here is politics, not
>>religion.
>
>Absolutely- the political rewards given for appeasing the religious right.
>
>Wake up.
I will if you will. So quit blaming the Religious Right if *other* people shut
down Planet Comics to 'appease' them for political gain! That's like blaming
Poor People for others passing Welfare Legislation.
Talon T M
Tom Vincent
In article <61oie6$r...@drn.zippo.com>, Natural Spring Talon wrote:
>In article <tom127-ya0236800...@news.capital.net>,
>tom...@SPAMBLOCKcapital.net says...
>>
>>Absolutely- the political rewards given for appeasing the religious right.
>>
>>Wake up.
>
>I will if you will. So quit blaming the Religious Right if *other* people shut
>down Planet Comics to 'appease' them for political gain! That's like blaming
>Poor People for others passing Welfare Legislation.
Rick, why the fuck do you think it's called the "religious RIGHT"?
The "RIGHT" is a fucking POLITICAL position. Spell it P-O-L-I-T-I-C-A-L, as
in "I wanna be elected". Oh yeah, did it ESCAPE you that Ralph Reed has
LEFT the Cristian Coalition to start his own POLITICAL consulting firm??
Personally, I don't think "Talon" aka Rick Shearer really exists. Nobody
could be this brainwashed or deliberately dense. I think you're Jack
Fucking Chick using a pseudonym.
natural_spring_talon
In article <tom127-ya0236800...@news.capital.net>,
tom...@SPAMBLOCKcapital.net says...
>
>In article <61oie6$r...@drn.zippo.com>, Natural Spring Talon wrote:
>
>>In article <tom127-ya0236800...@news.capital.net>,
>>tom...@SPAMBLOCKcapital.net says...
>>>
>>>Absolutely- the political rewards given for appeasing the religious right.
>>>
>>>Wake up.
>>
>>I will if you will. So quit blaming the Religious Right if *other* people shut
>>down Planet Comics to 'appease' them for political gain! That's like blaming
>>Poor People for others passing Welfare Legislation.
>
>Rick, why the fuck do you think it's called the "religious RIGHT"?
Probably for the same reason someone made up the word, "homophobe" (which
mistakenly implies "fear of homosexuals" rather than what is the reality, which
is "the disgust of homosexual activity")...and that reason is that it makes a
nice label in order to set up perfect target for rationalization and feel-good
pholosophy. Hey, you asked.
>The "RIGHT" is a fucking POLITICAL position. Spell it P-O-L-I-T-I-C-A-L, as
>in "I wanna be elected".
True Christianity is not concerned with politics, "render to Caesar that which
is Caesar's" kinda thing. I can see working through churches and as individuals
to support and vote for people who will make laws based on how they believe, but
political 'coalitions' are essentially worthless to them, in the long run.
>Oh yeah, did it ESCAPE you that Ralph Reed has
>LEFT the Cristian Coalition to start his own POLITICAL consulting firm??
Neither escaped nor surprised me.
>Personally, I don't think "Talon" aka Rick Shearer really exists. Nobody
>could be this brainwashed or deliberately dense.
That's exactly what I thought about most of those being cranked out of colleges.
>I think you're Jack Fucking Chick using a pseudonym.
And I'll bet you're Dennis Miller.
Talon T M
Avram Grumer
In article <tom127-ya0236800...@news.capital.net>,
tom...@SPAMBLOCKcapital.net (Tom Vincent) wrote:
>I think [Talon is] Jack Fucking Chick using a pseudonym.
Does that mean I have to end every article with "Haw Haw!"?
--
Avram Grumer Home: av...@interport.net
http://www.crossover.com/agrumer/ Work: agr...@crossover.com
Information wants to be incorrectly formatted.
Carl Fink
On Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:13:57 -0500, Tom Vincent
<tom...@SPAMBLOCKcapital.net> wrote:
>Personally, I don't think "Talon" aka Rick Shearer really exists. Nobody
>could be this brainwashed or deliberately dense. I think you're Jack
>Fucking Chick using a pseudonym.
Congratulations, you have been trolled.
Didn't anyone else notice that Rick wasn't a fanatical Fundamentalist
Christian six months ago? Granted I don't read his articles often,
but I never noticed this -- in fact, didn't he post obscene and
profane stuff fairly recently?
But like all trolls, his goal is to infuriate the reader. He
apparently realized that in a literate, fairly open-minded environment
like this, unthinking religious fanaticism could do that. So he
became Ralph ("Talon") Reed quite consciously to troll us.
It was very, very effective too.
I have little doubt that Rick is faking this.
--
Carl Fink ca...@dm.net
Manager, Dueling Modems Computer Forum, <http://dm.net>
"We've secretly replaced the fine comics plotting we usually serve with
Folger's crystals..." -Mike Chary
Ian McDowell
On 12 Oct 1997, Carl Fink wrote:
> Congratulations, you have been trolled.
>
> Didn't anyone else notice that Rick wasn't a fanatical Fundamentalist
> Christian six months ago? Granted I don't read his articles often,
> but I never noticed this -- in fact, didn't he post obscene and
> profane stuff fairly recently?
Yes, I'd noticed the same thing. Also, note that he only goes overboard
with things like his "anti-Semitism" when it becomes obvious that it's
getting under people's skins.
> But like all trolls, his goal is to infuriate the reader. He
> apparently realized that in a literate, fairly open-minded environment
> like this, unthinking religious fanaticism could do that. So he
> became Ralph ("Talon") Reed quite consciously to troll us.
Indeed. People who realy hold such beliefs don't engage in Rick's
hit-and-run, quick quip strategy. His rhetorical stance, unlike, say,
that of Timothy Butler, doesn't seem to be that of one who is genuinely
interested in explaining his point of view, much less persuading anybody
that he's right. Instead, he's out to needle people, plain and simple.
Also, note that he's not responded to anything B. P. Vecker has said, even
though Vecker seems to be hold more contempt for religion than anyone else
on this thread (not that there's anything wrong with that). Vecker,
however, is A) male (I presume), and B) not a liberal, so he's not really
the kind of person that Rick is interested in provoking.
A glance at deja news shows that all of Rick's posts have "RE" in their
title. In other words, he hasn't originated any threads, but is merely
responding to pre-existing ones, particularly posts by people he likes to
needle.
> It was very, very effective too.
>
> I have little doubt that Rick is faking this.
Yes. He's far more sophisticated than the late, unlamented RobRaza, but
he's working in much the same vein. It amazes me that people are falling
for it.
Ian McDowell
Tom Vincent
In article <Pine.GSO.3.93.971012...@hamlet.uncg.edu>, Ian
McDowell <ikmc...@hamlet.uncg.edu> wrote:
>On 12 Oct 1997, Carl Fink wrote:
>
>> Congratulations, you have been trolled.
>>
>> Didn't anyone else notice that Rick wasn't a fanatical Fundamentalist
>> Christian six months ago? Granted I don't read his articles often,
>> but I never noticed this -- in fact, didn't he post obscene and
>> profane stuff fairly recently?
>
>Yes, I'd noticed the same thing. Also, note that he only goes overboard
>with things like his "anti-Semitism" when it becomes obvious that it's
>getting under people's skins.
Regardles of whether he's a born again or not, he's shown himself to be
quite a dingleberry. (which is an aceptable slang word around here for
those little balls of toilet paper that stick to your asshole)
If he's the bigot he appears to be, he's a fucking idiot.
If he's a troll, he's a fucking idiot without a life.
Oh, he's also a conservative idiot following the party line. From The Right
Side of the Web, a conservative site his webpage links, the following is
from the "Talking Points" section:
10/4/97
"Language matters. That is why I think it is about time that we start to
use the term "bigot" when it comes to some of those wo have spent the past
week bashing the Promise Keepers."
Limblob also spent the entire week ranting about the same.
>> I have little doubt that Rick is faking this.
>
>Yes. He's far more sophisticated than the late, unlamented RobRaza, but
>he's working in much the same vein. It amazes me that people are falling
>for it.
In either case, he's a killfiled done deal for me. I'm fed up with asholism.
Kevin J. Maroney
Ian McDowell <ikmc...@hamlet.uncg.edu> wrote:
>Yes. He's far more sophisticated than the late, unlamented RobRaza, but
>he's working in much the same vein. It amazes me that people are falling
>for it.
Actually, I admire Rick for his ability to come up with a persona even
more annoying and alienating than the old "openly sexist Sim
supporter". I admire him so much that he's back in my killfile for
good.
--
Kevin J. Maroney | Crossover Technologies | kmar...@crossover.com
"Love doesn't have a point. Love *is* the point."--Alan Moore
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
Timothy J. Butler (tbu...@ford.com) wrote:
: Elayne Wechsler-Chaput wrote:
: >
: >
: > The debate arose because the actions against Planet Comics were undertaken
: > by members of the religious right who do not believe in the separation of
: >Just keeping you honest, Elayne. It is my understanding that the actions against
: Planet Comics were undertaken by local law enforcement and the courts, not
: the "religious right", whoever they are.
Incorrect. Read my synopsis from the National Coalition Against
Censorship, which I transcribed in its entirety on That Other Thread.
This is a *pattern*, not an isolated incident.
: Obcomics" Retcons are hard enough to take in comics. They really stink in real
: life, where they are more commonly referred to as historical revisionism.
So don't do them. :)
- Elayne (can it be "historical" if it's happening now?)
Kevin J. Maroney
ca...@panix.com (Carl Fink) wrote:
>Didn't anyone else notice that Rick wasn't a fanatical Fundamentalist
>Christian six months ago? Granted I don't read his articles often,
>but I never noticed this -- in fact, didn't he post obscene and
>profane stuff fairly recently?
I don't remember him ever having posted anything profane. I find it
quite credible that Rick is flat-out trolling, but I find it also
quite likely that he's doing what he did in the Interminable Sim
Flamewars, which is exaggerating his own beliefs and presenting them
antagonistically--a refined sort of trolling which might deserve a
separate name.
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
Carl Fink (ca...@panix.com) wrote:
: On Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:13:57 -0500, Tom Vincent
: <tom...@SPAMBLOCKcapital.net> wrote:
: >Personally, I don't think "Talon" aka Rick Shearer really exists. Nobody
: >could be this brainwashed or deliberately dense. I think you're Jack
: >Fucking Chick using a pseudonym.
: Congratulations, you have been trolled.
: Didn't anyone else notice that Rick wasn't a fanatical Fundamentalist
: Christian six months ago? Granted I don't read his articles often,
: but I never noticed this -- in fact, didn't he post obscene and
: profane stuff fairly recently?
: But like all trolls, his goal is to infuriate the reader.
Hasn't Rick admitted this in the past?
: I have little doubt that Rick is faking this.
I would tend to agree, but I haven't seen the full story, since I tend to
killfile trolls. :)
- Elayne
natural_spring_talon
In article <61peh0$169$1...@carlf.dialup.access.net>, ca...@panix.com says...
>
>On Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:13:57 -0500, Tom Vincent
><tom...@SPAMBLOCKcapital.net> wrote:
>
>>Personally, I don't think "Talon" aka Rick Shearer really exists. Nobody
>>could be this brainwashed or deliberately dense. I think you're Jack
>>Fucking Chick using a pseudonym.
>
>Congratulations, you have been trolled.
Yes, you're absolutely right. I wake up each morning wondering how in the hell
I can piss off as many people as possible. In fact, I didn't even have yo go
out of my way to do it! All I had to do was state a few *facts* that people
would rather not be true.
I'm not the one that turned this into the argument of religion, schools, and the
misinterpretation of Judaism. All I did was bring up the censorship at
Hitchcock High School and the political comparisons of the Planet Comics case
with that of religion in high schools, i.e. using "for the children" excuse to
further political agenda. The rest has been responses to the chirping of those
wearing blinders re: Christianity.
BTW...it's awful late in the game to whine "troll, troll!"...that's a sure sign
that you're at wit's end and admit defeat.
>Didn't anyone else notice that Rick wasn't a fanatical Fundamentalist
>Christian six months ago?
Who ever said I was one *now*?? All I've done is played God's Advocate and
defended that side of the great debate.
>Granted I don't read his articles often,
>but I never noticed this -- in fact, didn't he post obscene and
>profane stuff fairly recently?
Yes! I read Cerebus, don't I? Sheesh! And you guys actually think you're up
to the task of reasoned debate when you have trouble remembering what I said two
weeks ago, especially with dejanews at your fingertips? Oh teah, *I'm* the
ignorant troll, sure.
>But like all trolls, his goal is to infuriate the reader. He
>apparently realized that in a literate, fairly open-minded environment
>like this, unthinking religious fanaticism could do that.
You're upset because it *is* clear thinking, and that blows your carefully
state-contructed arguments all to hell.
>So he became Ralph ("Talon") Reed quite consciously to troll us.
Get over yourself! I'm here to have fun, talk about comics, and correct gross
errors when I come across them.
>It was very, very effective too.
You give me too much credit here, and not enough there. But Carl, I'll give you
the advice I gave Elayne...killfile me today, it's better for your blood
pressure.
>I have little doubt that Rick is faking this.
You failed. But I'll allow you to think you passed. Enjoy your reads,
dude...and leave the thinking/debate to the grown-ups.
Talon T M
That MAD Troller Guy from Yeehaw, Texas
Vermilion
In article <61rbtk$a...@drn.zippo.com> Natural Spring Talon writes:
<mass quantites of non-recylcable trash snipped>
>Get over yourself! I'm here to have fun, talk about comics, and correct gross
>errors when I come across them.
Talk about comics? Have you done that yet? You must post more than 20
times a day here, but it is it ever on topic?
- Vermilion, who didn't know there were so many bridges in rac.misc
natural_spring_talon
In article <344c2ca5...@news.crossover.com>, kmar...@crossover.com says...
>
>ca...@panix.com (Carl Fink) wrote:
>
>>Didn't anyone else notice that Rick wasn't a fanatical Fundamentalist
>>but I never noticed this -- in fact, didn't he post obscene and
>>profane stuff fairly recently?
>
>quite credible that Rick is flat-out trolling, but I find it also
>quite likely that he's doing what he did in the Interminable Sim
>Flamewars, which is exaggerating his own beliefs and presenting them
>antagonistically--a refined sort of trolling which might deserve a
>separate name.
Hmmm, I got one...how about those people who "stand for clear thinking even when
confronting the brainwashed of the Left"...I could go for that. :)
But thanks for your psychoanalysis...your quarter's under my pillow.
Talon T M
natural_spring_talon
>
>
>
>On 12 Oct 1997, Carl Fink wrote:
>
>>
>> Christian six months ago? Granted I don't read his articles often,
>> but I never noticed this -- in fact, didn't he post obscene and
>> profane stuff fairly recently?
>
>with things like his "anti-Semitism" when it becomes obvious that it's
>getting under people's skins.
Almost everything I say here gets under people's skins...heck, when Chary quits
responding you know you've hit the nerve...but that's not my motivation.
Whenever I see blatant falsehoods that continue to be indoctrinated into young
minds, I cannot resist pointing it out and correcting the poor ignorant soul.
Such as when Johanna matter-of-factly mentioned some unidentified women that
claimed Sim was a misogynist because they worked with him. If I recall
correctly, *no one* here but me challenged her to name names and withdraw that
untruthful accusation. Was she the troll? Well, golly, no.
So Ian, just because you, and people who have been taught to think like you get
upset by my seeds of discord, it doesn't mean that I'm trolling to get all you
damn liberals upset. I'm here to have fun (which I do, more with witty posts
from Damon and Avram than frpm heated politic/religion battles), talk comics,
and gosh darn it straighten out people who say false things, much the same way
that netcops have to netcop.
>> But like all trolls, his goal is to infuriate the reader. He
>> apparently realized that in a literate, fairly open-minded environment
>> like this, unthinking religious fanaticism could do that. So he
>> became Ralph ("Talon") Reed quite consciously to troll us.
>
>Indeed. People who realy hold such beliefs don't engage in Rick's
>hit-and-run, quick quip strategy. His rhetorical stance, unlike, say,
>that of Timothy Butler, doesn't seem to be that of one who is genuinely
>interested in explaining his point of view, much less persuading anybody
>that he's right. Instead, he's out to needle people, plain and simple.
Timothy has his own style, and I admit it's much more amenable to his position
than I am to mine. But...II quip not because I'm not interested in explaining
my point of view, but that I realize the chances of changing someone's mind
here. Rather than work oneself into a froth over things we cannot change, we
ought to enjoy life and deal as best we can..you agree?
>Also, note that he's not responded to anything B. P. Vecker has said, even
>though Vecker seems to be hold more contempt for religion than anyone else
>on this thread (not that there's anything wrong with that). Vecker,
>however, is A) male (I presume), and B) not a liberal, so he's not really
>the kind of person that Rick is interested in provoking.
I don't keep tally points, but I'm almost sure that I've responded to him a few
times on this thread. He says some outrageous things, but most are funny, even
when they cross the line into blasphemy. :) So you should really try and get
this...realize that me not provoking Vecker DOES NOT MEAN that I'm leaving him
out of the action, rather it means that I'm NOT TRYING TO PROVOKE at all. Well,
duh, that was too easy.
>A glance at deja news shows that all of Rick's posts have "RE" in their
>title. In other words, he hasn't originated any threads, but is merely
>responding to pre-existing ones, particularly posts by people he likes to
>needle.
I like to keep it to one thread, but I'll start a few more if you insist. I'm
really amazed that you took the time to analyze *me*...when can I see the
results on everyone else? Thanks.
>> It was very, very effective too.
>>
>> I have little doubt that Rick is faking this.
>
>Yes. He's far more sophisticated than the late, unlamented RobRaza, but
>he's working in much the same vein. It amazes me that people are falling
>for it.
All anyone had (or has) to do is say they agree to disagree...when they repeat
or state something false, or try and show what I said is not true, then I'm
going to respond. I think you need to read a few more good comics and alot less
Vertigo. :)
Talon T M
"Yes! We'll call him a troll and that way we don't have to deal with anything
he said! Great call, Ian!"
natural_spring_talon
In article <34482a9f...@news.crossover.com>, kmar...@crossover.com says...
>
>Ian McDowell <ikmc...@hamlet.uncg.edu> wrote:
>
>>Yes. He's far more sophisticated than the late, unlamented RobRaza, but
>>he's working in much the same vein. It amazes me that people are falling
>>for it.
>
>more annoying and alienating than the old "openly sexist Sim
>supporter". I admire him so much that he's back in my killfile for
>good.
And that's where I would advise anyone who cannot handle dissenting views
without blowing a gasket to place me.
Talon T M
Carl Fink
On 12 Oct 1997 13:28:36 -0700, Natural Spring Talon <NaturalSpringTalon> wrote:
>
>Yes, you're absolutely right. I wake up each morning wondering how in the hell
>I can piss off as many people as possible. In fact, I didn't even have yo go
>out of my way to do it! All I had to do was state a few *facts* that people
>would rather not be true.
Okay, the point of this would seem to be that he *isn't* trying to
anger anyone. Then, he writes:
>BTW...it's awful late in the game to whine "troll, troll!"...that's a sure sign
>that you're at wit's end and admit defeat.
Rick, didn't you notice that *I* haven't been arguing with you? How
can I be facing defeat in a fight I'm not involved in?
>You failed. But I'll allow you to think you passed. Enjoy your reads,
>dude...and leave the thinking/debate to the grown-ups.
Can that last paragraph be anything *but* an attempt to anger the
reader?
The preceding presented in the spirit of public education for all
reading this thread.
natural_spring_talon
In article <tom127-ya0236800...@news.capital.net>,
tom...@SPAMBLOCKcapital.net says...
>
>>On 12 Oct 1997, Carl Fink wrote:
>>
>>> Congratulations, you have been trolled.
>>>
>>> Didn't anyone else notice that Rick wasn't a fanatical Fundamentalist
>>> Christian six months ago? Granted I don't read his articles often,
>>> but I never noticed this -- in fact, didn't he post obscene and
>>> profane stuff fairly recently?
>>
>>Yes, I'd noticed the same thing. Also, note that he only goes overboard
>>with things like his "anti-Semitism" when it becomes obvious that it's
>>getting under people's skins.
>
>quite a dingleberry. (which is an aceptable slang word around here for
>those little balls of toilet paper that stick to your asshole)
Or those guys who make so much sense you want to strangleberry them.
>If he's the bigot he appears to be, he's a fucking idiot.
>If he's a troll, he's a fucking idiot without a life.
If he's right, then...(you figure the rest)
>Oh, he's also a conservative idiot following the party line. From The Right
>Side of the Web, a conservative site his webpage links, the following is
>from the "Talking Points" section:
>10/4/97
>
>"Language matters. That is why I think it is about time that we start to
>use the term "bigot" when it comes to some of those wo have spent the past
>week bashing the Promise Keepers."
>
>Limblob also spent the entire week ranting about the same.
I put a link to that page when I wanted to keep up with Alan Keyes, who I still
think should be President. OH MY GOD, A BLACK MAN!!! I haven't linked to the
page since the election.
>>> I have little doubt that Rick is faking this.
>>
>>Yes. He's far more sophisticated than the late, unlamented RobRaza, but
>>he's working in much the same vein. It amazes me that people are falling
>>for it.
>
>In either case, he's a killfiled done deal for me. I'm fed up with asholism.
That's the best thing you could do. Trust me.
Talon T M
natural_spring_talon
In article <61rcdu$b...@panix.com>, fire...@panix.com says...
>
>Carl Fink (ca...@panix.com) wrote:
>: On Sat, 11 Oct 1997 22:13:57 -0500, Tom Vincent
>
>: >Personally, I don't think "Talon" aka Rick Shearer really exists. Nobody
>: >could be this brainwashed or deliberately dense. I think you're Jack
>: >Fucking Chick using a pseudonym.
>
>
>: Didn't anyone else notice that Rick wasn't a fanatical Fundamentalist
>: Christian six months ago? Granted I don't read his articles often,
>: but I never noticed this -- in fact, didn't he post obscene and
>: profane stuff fairly recently?
>
>
>Hasn't Rick admitted this in the past?
No.
>
>: I have little doubt that Rick is faking this.
>
>I would tend to agree, but I haven't seen the full story, since I tend to
>killfile trolls. :)
Looks like the definition of troll is "one who disagrees with the large majority
of the people in the group, especially Elayne". :)
Please guys, I'd rather you pull an Elayne and stick your head in the sand than
get frustrated by your lack of coherent arguments that cause you to resort to ad
hominems...whether you ran out of evidence to support your side or you just grew
tired. This has been a public announcement. Thanks.
Talon T M
And I thought real trolls were worse than netcops...until today
zen and the art of damonance
who cares who wrote this drivel:
> >>> I have little doubt that Rick is faking this.
> >>
> >>Yes. He's far more sophisticated than the late, unlamented RobRaza, but
> >>he's working in much the same vein. It amazes me that people are falling
> >>for it.
> >
> >In either case, he's a killfiled done deal for me. I'm fed up with asholism.
>
> That's the best thing you could do. Trust me.
you all take rick seriously?
THEN, you decide to compare him to robaza and suggest we
all ignore him?
and YET, how many of you still take pat seriously?
as much a troll as rick is, as much as he just sits around
scheming of ways to get under y'all's skins,
pat is far, far worse.
jeez. you're right.
don't take rick seriously.
every once in a while he makes a cogent point,
but it's not worth these threads, is it?
or do you want .misc to wind up like .dc.u, where last i checked
90% of the messages were devoted to He Who Shall Remian Nameless.
AND, all this negative karmic energy has drawn Robaza back!!!!!!!!
if y'all're gonna keep this up, i shall
return to my serious self and stop posting all
these jokes and start giving my real opinions on stuff
again, making FOUR blatant zombie thread masters in
one newsgroup.[1]
you have all been warned.
[1] i'm pissed enough to do it too, since
the orioles just gave away two games.
--
'Do you believe in ghosts?' "No...they are unscientific...They
contain no matter, and have no energy, and therefore, according
to the laws of science, do not exist except in people's minds...
Of course, the laws of science contain no matter and energy and
therefore do not exist except in people's minds. It's best to be
completely scientific about the whole thing and refuse to believe
in either ghosts or the laws of science." Robert Pirsig.
natural_spring_talon
In article <61rirl$bj$1...@carlf.dialup.access.net>, ca...@panix.com says...
>
>On 12 Oct 1997 13:28:36 -0700, Natural Spring Talon <NaturalSpringTalon> wrote:
>>
>>Yes, you're absolutely right. I wake up each morning wondering how in the hell
>>I can piss off as many people as possible. In fact, I didn't even have yo go
>>out of my way to do it! All I had to do was state a few *facts* that people
>>would rather not be true.
>
>Okay, the point of this would seem to be that he *isn't* trying to
>anger anyone. Then, he writes:
>
>>BTW...it's awful late in the game to whine "troll, troll!"...that's a sure sign
>>that you're at wit's end and admit defeat.
>
>Rick, didn't you notice that *I* haven't been arguing with you? How
>can I be facing defeat in a fight I'm not involved in?
My bad. I was surrounded and thought that you were one of the kickers. You're
just the one with the pointed stick. But think about it, if you were reading,
you *were* involved. Hey, you picked sides and didn't point out any of the
possible trolls from a few dozen from the other side. And they *are* there.
>>You failed. But I'll allow you to think you passed. Enjoy your reads,
>>dude...and leave the thinking/debate to the grown-ups.
>
>Can that last paragraph be anything *but* an attempt to anger the
>reader?
It's a dig, sure, after the ad hominem troll attack on three fronts (Ian, Kevin,
and you). Sorry that my response *in kind* made you angry. I'll try much
harder next time not to hurt your feelings.
I sure hate to see what you would've thought had I responded like Chary would've
to an accusation of 'troll'.
Talon T M
zen and the art of damonance
Tom Vincent wrote:
>
> In article <61mu4k$b...@drn.zippo.com>, Natural Spring Talon wrote:
>
> >In article <tom127-ya0236800...@news.capital.net>,
> >tom...@SPAMBLOCKcapital.net says...
> >>
> >>
> >>>In article <61l5ab$e...@panix.com>, fire...@panix.com says...
> >>>>
> >>>>The debate arose because the actions against Planet Comics were undertaken
> >>>>by members of the religious right who do not believe in the separation of
> >>>>church and state, among other things.
> >>>
> >>>against obscenity...sure they went too far, but the Liberal Left
> censoring the
> >>>Bible from public schools gave them a great example of how to get rid of the
> >>>competition.
> >>
> >>Rick, with all due respect, BULLSHIT!
> >>
> >>it had *everything* to do with the religious right, and the vibes I'm
> >>getting are that the 'decent citizens of Oklahoma" are a might bit pissed
> >>about it.
> >
> >ones involved in this case, but I think the main culprit here is politics, not
> >religion.
>
hey-- you got politics in my religion!
no, YOU got religion in my politics!
natural_spring_talon
In article <dunnetg.17...@email.uc.edu>, dun...@email.uc.edu says...
>
>In article <61rbtk$a...@drn.zippo.com> Natural Spring Talon writes:
>
><mass quantites of non-recylcable trash snipped>
>
>>Get over yourself! I'm here to have fun, talk about comics, and correct gross
>>errors when I come across them.
>
> Talk about comics? Have you done that yet? You must post more than 20
>times a day here, but it is it ever on topic?
topic, drift happens. Hasn't the plot for Cerebus drifted in the last 100
issues?
Talon T M
You have a lot of questions for a guy with a questionable name
natural_spring_talon
In article <espinoza....@cgl.ucsf.edu>, espi...@cgl.ucsf.edu says...
>
>Natural Spring Talon writes:
>
>Re: Killfiling Talon
>
>>And that's where I would advise anyone who cannot handle dissenting views
>>without blowing a gasket to place me.
>
Ya think? :)
Talon T M
Keep those Doggies Trollin'
Hernan Espinoza
Natural Spring Talon writes:
Re: Killfiling Talon
>And that's where I would advise anyone who cannot handle dissenting views
>without blowing a gasket to place me.
Oh, you rebel, you. 8-)
-Hernan
Vermilion
In article Natural Spring Talon writes:
>In article <dunnetg.17...@email.uc.edu>, dun...@email.uc.edu says...
>>
>>In article <61rbtk$a...@drn.zippo.com> Natural Spring Talon writes:
>>
>><mass quantites of non-recylcable trash snipped>
>>
>>>Get over yourself! I'm here to have fun, talk about comics, and correct gross
>>>errors when I come across them.
>>
>> Talk about comics? Have you done that yet? You must post more than 20
>>times a day here, but it is it ever on topic?
>
>And what is the ratio for everyone else in this thread? Yes, it started out on
>topic, drift happens. Hasn't the plot for Cerebus drifted in the last 100
>issues?
How extraordinary. You read my post. You thought a bit on it. You
went to the trouble of typing a reply. And, somehow, you managed not to
answer any questions I asked. That's plum remarkable. In fact, your response
utterly failed to have anything at all to do with replying to my post. You're
right, that thread drift is a bitch - you let one get away from you in
mid-article.
In a more direct vein, YOU said "I'm here to have fun, talk about
comics..." Just you, paco. You never mentioned thread drift, or anyone
else's posting habits. In fact, you said you're hear to talk about comics,
then try a snappy comeback about thread drift to defend the fact that you
never talk about comics.
You're a troll, son. That's what you call people who post to certain
newgroups solely to perpetuate controversial and off-topic rants. If you
actually DO post legitimately to a group from time to time, that's one thing,
but... Yeah, you're just trolling. And you have a remarkably short attention
span, too, if you can't stay on topic long enough to respond to a 2 line post.
Feel free to reply again, and elaborate on your divergent posting habits, but
I won't hold my breath. Trolls never admit they're wrong :)
- Vermilion: "But mom, everyone else is doing it!"
Andrew Ducker
In article <61s45h$p...@drn.zippo.com>, Natural Spring Talon <?@?.?>
writes
>And what is the ratio for everyone else in this thread? Yes, it started out on
>topic, drift happens. Hasn't the plot for Cerebus drifted in the last 100
>issues?
Certianly has. Speeking of such things, what was the general opinion on
Guys?
Samael
who liked it, a lot.
--
Home: sam...@dial.pipex.com
Work: and...@irw-associates.demon.co.uk
Timothy J. Butler
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput wrote:
>
> Timothy J. Butler (tbu...@ford.com) wrote:
> : Elayne Wechsler-Chaput wrote:
> : >
> : >
> : > by members of the religious right who do not believe in the separation of
> : >Just keeping you honest, Elayne. It is my understanding that the actions against
>
> : Planet Comics were undertaken by local law enforcement and the courts, not
> : the "religious right", whoever they are.
>
> Incorrect. Read my synopsis from the National Coalition Against
> Censorship,
Now THERE'S an objective source.
>which I transcribed in its entirety on That Other Thread.
> This is a *pattern*, not an isolated incident.
Wow, I didn't realize the religious right (whoever they are) had that much power.
Not only the cops but the courts take orders from them.
Sorry dear, but the raids on Planet Comics were carried out by the police. The
proprietors of the store had their day in court. You may think that the
religious right runs those institutions, but many of us would disagree with
you.
>
> : Obcomics" Retcons are hard enough to take in comics. They really stink in real
> : life, where they are more commonly referred to as historical revisionism.
>
> So don't do them. :)
Haven't yet. But I know a few people who think they are anti-censorship who use
retcons all the time.
>
> - Elayne (can it be "historical" if it's happening now?)
> --
> "The kiss originated when the first male reptile licked the first female
> reptile, implying in a subtle, complimentary way that she was as succulent
> as the small reptile he had for dinner the night before."
> - F. Scott Fitzgerald
Tim
Robert A. Jung
In article <61s4jt$r...@drn.zippo.com> Natural Spring Talon writes:
> Ya think? :)
Well, YOU don't, so someone else has to...
(It's people like you, Talon, that give Christians a bad name. Congrats.)
--R.J.
B-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I write because I am personally amused by what I do, and if other people are
amused by it, then it's fine. If they're not, then that's also fine."
Send mail to rj...@netcom.com --Frank Zappa
------- Visit Rob on the web! ------ http://www.digiserve.com/eescape/ -------
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
: > : the "religious right", whoever they are.
: >
: > Incorrect. Read my synopsis from the National Coalition Against
: > Censorship,
: Now THERE'S an objective source.
Of course they're objective. They have equal contempt for ANYone doing
the censoring, whether it's law enforcement or religious zealots.
: >which I transcribed in its entirety on That Other Thread.
: > This is a *pattern*, not an isolated incident.
: Wow, I didn't realize the religious right (whoever they are) had that
: much power.
Unfortunately, they do. For whatever stupid reason, people are afraid to
stand up to these morons.
- Elayne
Joe Gorde
Andrew Ducker <and...@irw-associates.demon.co.uk> wrote:
: Certianly has. Speeking of such things, what was the general opinion on
: Guys?
I don't know what the general opinion was, but I found it a bit tedious,
with a few good bits. All the self-publisher in-jokes are distracting
and don't add much, and the whole Joanne-Cerebus relationship is pretty
predictable. I did like the exploration of Cerebus' relationship with
Bear, though.
I think the current storyline is shaping up to be a whole lot better,
though.
--
joeg...@umich.edu * I am nothing special, nothing pure. I am mud and flame.
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
B. P. Uecker (uec...@cris.com) wrote:
: I have to say, although I am a bit of a pacifist when it comes to
: kill-files, it is trying my patience when I have to skip through a
: significant portion of this ng's posts that have been commandeered into
: a pointless exchange of pseudo-educated religious banter.
Most killfiles also allow for killfiling a thread by header name. I
usually do this when a zombie thread has gone on even longer than *I* like
it <g> and I figure I have nothing more to say about it. It's more a
preventative for myself, a resisting-temptation kinda thing, than a
statement about the other participants in the thread.
: ObComics:
: Wasn't the Phantom Zone really just an all-encompassing kill-file?
I always got the impression the Phantom Zone caused pain to its
inhabitants. Killfiles do no such thing-- they're for the benefit and
convenience of the person using the file, not the people and threads
listed in the file.
Carl Fink
On 12 Oct 1997 19:41:12 -0700, Natural Spring Talon <NaturalSpringTalon> wrote:
>
>My bad. I was surrounded and thought that you were one of the kickers. You're
>just the one with the pointed stick. But think about it, if you were reading,
>you *were* involved. Hey, you picked sides and didn't point out any of the
>possible trolls from a few dozen from the other side. And they *are* there.
Nope.
>>Can that last paragraph be anything *but* an attempt to anger the
>>reader?
>
>It's a dig, sure, after the ad hominem troll attack on three fronts
>(Ian, Kevin, and you). Sorry that my response *in kind* made you angry.
>I'll try much harder next time not to hurt your feelings.
Look, it's trolling.
No, Rick, you haven't made me angry. I deconstruct trolls like you
fairly effortlessly. Hey, I've dealt with Riley the Psi-Cop. I've
been called a "faggot hacker flesh-eating vulture". You're small
potatoes.
>I sure hate to see what you would've thought had I responded like
>Chary would've to an accusation of 'troll'.
You mean with reasoned (if angry) argumentation, as opposed to what
you use?
Snail...@aol.com
In article <gBG7SpAT...@irw-associates.demon.co.uk>,
Andrew Ducker <and...@irw-associates.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Certianly has. Speeking of such things, what was the general opinion on
> Guys?
I thought Guys was quite good. After the heavy, sometimes impossible
to decipher symbolism and strange flow of Mothers and Daughters (which
was still great, mind you!) Guys was a refreshing change. Sim's mastery
of dialogue really showed through in this one. I really liked how he
used the covers as part of the story, too. At one point near the end I
realized, Oh shit, Cerebus is going to marry Joanne, isn't he?!? All his
friends are married, she's just about got him. Everything has been
leading up to this! Noooo! And then Dave does his "wedding cover!" I
knew that this was it, but it WASN'T! He got us good! I also really
liked the scene with the female hand opening the door to the bar with all
of the astonished guys inside. Who IS it?!? Sophia? Jaka? I admit that
I was kind of disappointed to see someone I'd never met before (Zig).
The mongoose thing was a direct steal from Wolfe's "The Right Stuff,"
BTW, though the second fumbled attempt was Sim original. Good stuff.
Does anyone know when the phonebook will be available (I read the issues
in the comic shop)?
-Ethan Fleischer
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
natural_spring_talon
In article <3441a2a3....@news.concentric.net>, uec...@cris.com says...
>
>Hernan Espinoza wrote:
>
>>Re: Killfiling Talon
>
>I have to say, although I am a bit of a pacifist when it comes to
>kill-files, it is trying my patience when I have to skip through a
>significant portion of this ng's posts that have been commandeered into
>is Usenet, but whatever happened to just letting the argument go on
>grounds of irreconcilable differences (in this case, irreconcilable with
>reality)?
Anyone who posts to me that they are willing to agree to disagree with me and
leave it at that, I'm more than willing to do the same. Oh damn! A troll isn't
supposed to do that! Maybe I should rethink that position! :)
>It is about this time that we are going to start seeing "Talon: Threat
>or Menace" signs erected by J. Jonah Jameson (note the tidy inclusion of
>a comics reference).
You see, how can I tear into you when you compare me to Spider-Man? Actually,
though, I think some see me as more of a mutant. :)
Talon T M
natural_spring_talon
In article <61s90q$1rf$1...@carlf.dialup.access.net>, ca...@panix.com says...
>
>On 12 Oct 1997 19:41:12 -0700, Natural Spring Talon <NaturalSpringTalon> wrote:
>>
>>My bad. I was surrounded and thought that you were one of the kickers. You're
>>just the one with the pointed stick. But think about it, if you were reading,
>>you *were* involved. Hey, you picked sides and didn't point out any of the
>>possible trolls from a few dozen from the other side. And they *are* there.
>
>Nope.
Yes they are. Your turn.
>
>>>Can that last paragraph be anything *but* an attempt to anger the
>>>reader?
>>
>>It's a dig, sure, after the ad hominem troll attack on three fronts
>>(Ian, Kevin, and you). Sorry that my response *in kind* made you angry.
>>I'll try much harder next time not to hurt your feelings.
>
>Look, it's trolling.
Nope.
>No, Rick, you haven't made me angry. I deconstruct trolls like you
>fairly effortlessly.
It shows.
> Hey, I've dealt with Riley the Psi-Cop. I've
>been called a "faggot hacker flesh-eating vulture". You're small
>potatoes.
I'm not potatoes. I'm a hamburger. :)
>>I sure hate to see what you would've thought had I responded like
>>Chary would've to an accusation of 'troll'.
>
>You mean with reasoned (if angry) argumentation, as opposed to what
>you use?
No, just angry invective. I'm glad you're not angry...that doesn't mean you're
right. There are some here that have argued reasonably well with me while
others haven't. Why am I now, all of a sudden, after four years here, a troll?
But here's the question that sheds light on your (and others like you)
motivation...why is it that after a few posts by Tim was *he* accused of being a
troll? His posts were *well* argued and very flamefree, and the one time he
slipped he immediately apologized on his own. What is it that he and I have in
common that caused both of us to be called 'trolls'?
Do you see why you should put a little more effort into your troll-hunting?
Talon T M
In fact, if I didn't know you so well, Carl, I'd say you accusing me of being a
troll is in itself a troll
natural_spring_talon
In article <rjungEH...@netcom.com>, rj...@netcom.com says...
>
>In article <61s4jt$r...@drn.zippo.com> Natural Spring Talon writes:
>> Ya think? :)
>
> Well, YOU don't, so someone else has to...
Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.
>
> (It's people like you, Talon, that give Christians a bad name. Congrats.)
It's people like you that give comedians a bad name. You're welcome.
Talon T M
Kevin J. Maroney
"Timothy J. Butler" <tbu...@ford.com> wrote:
>Sorry dear, but the raids on Planet Comics were carried out by the police.
You're trivially correct. Why, yes, of course they were carried out by
the police; if they had been carried out by private citizens, we'd be
reading interminable threads about the Planet Comics Assault, not the
Planet Comics Arrests.
However, the police didn't just up and decide, hey, let's raid that
comics shop; complaints were made by the group Oklahomans for Children
and Families, a right-wing pro-censorship group.
--
Kevin J. Maroney | Crossover Technologies | kmar...@crossover.com
"Love doesn't have a point. Love *is* the point."--Alan Moore
john francis ronan
a totally clueless Timothy J. Butler wrote:
>
>
> Sorry dear, but the raids on Planet Comics were carried out by the
> police. The
> proprietors of the store had their day in court. You may think that
> the
> religious right runs those institutions, but many of us would disagree
> with
> you.
>
catch a fucking clue you idiot. Oklahomans For Children And Families
crow about how they got the DA to prosecute. The assistant DA who lead
the chareges, Patty High, is married to a leading member of OCAF. OCAF
pushed the cops to go after that notorious kiddie porn film, the Tin
Drum. this whole fucking thread is about what an immenent threat to our
liberties the CHRISTIAN RIGHT is.
Planet Comics no longer exists because of rightwing Christian yahoos.
the political and moral affinity of people like OCAF and other
conservative christians to the ongoing war agianst culture in this
country is obvious to all except you, it seems.
PS: the proprietors of the store never did have their day in court. try
reading a newspaper. try reading the comics journal. try reading.
ronan
Jim Smith
In article <61tc9f$n...@panix.com>,
> : ObComics:
> : Wasn't the Phantom Zone really just an all-encompassing kill-file?
>
> I always got the impression the Phantom Zone caused pain to its
> inhabitants.
Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of the thing? I mean, if the Zone
had simply been an inescapable--but painless--dimension, would Zod and
his cronies have tried so often to escape? I think if their options had
been "listless existence without suffering" and "get pounded by Superman
in power grab," they'd think twice a loooot more often.
[followups to racdu, I guess...]
> Killfiles do no such thing--
That depends on the plonkee. I'm sure Mi Amor Roberto really doesn't
mind how many killfiles he's in (he probably keeps track). On the other
hand, I know for a fact that my UIUC account was on quite few killfiles
way back when, and it *still* eats away at me. (Even though I've changed
accounts twice since then. Even though--at the time--I fully intended the
things I wrote that got me plonked.)
See, for every nasty troll or unpleasant person one killfiles, there's
probably a newbie sitting around thinking "My word--I will never ever get
a chance to redeem myself in this person's eyes." And that's why I've
never been fond of the option.
Jim Smith
http://www.wworld.com/users/5smith/jim/
zen and the art of damonance
Natural, Spring, Talon wrote:
>
> In article <61rirl$bj$1...@carlf.dialup.access.net>, ca...@panix.com says...
> >
> >On 12 Oct 1997 13:28:36 -0700, Natural Spring Talon <NaturalSpringTalon> wrote:
ne. Then, he writes:
> >
> >>BTW...it's awful late in the game to whine "troll, troll!"...that's a sure sign
> >>that you're at wit's end and admit defeat.
> >
> >Rick, didn't you notice that *I* haven't been arguing with you? How
> >can I be facing defeat in a fight I'm not involved in?
>
> just the one with the pointed stick. But think about it, if you were reading,
> you *were* involved. Hey, you picked sides and didn't point out any of the
> possible trolls from a few dozen from the other side. And they *are* there.
it's amazing how he can shit on the computer screen in shapes
that look like letters.
Tom Vincent
>B. P. Uecker (uec...@cris.com) wrote:
>: ObComics:
>: Wasn't the Phantom Zone really just an all-encompassing kill-file?
>
>I always got the impression the Phantom Zone caused pain to its
>inhabitants. Killfiles do no such thing-- they're for the benefit and
>convenience of the person using the file, not the people and threads
>listed in the file.
Still, it *is* kind of fun to think of it in those terms, isn't it?
---Tom Vincent
Her eyes brimmed with tears. "The Princess is dead, and now the Mother is
gone too. Who will care for all those people? Who will care for the infirm
and the unwanted? Who will do the good works now?" The simplicity of the
answer startled her. "Us", came the reply, "all of us."
natural_spring_talon
In article <dunnetg.17...@email.uc.edu>, dun...@email.uc.edu says...
>
>In article Natural Spring Talon writes:
>
>>In article <dunnetg.17...@email.uc.edu>, dun...@email.uc.edu says...
>>>
>>>In article <61rbtk$a...@drn.zippo.com> Natural Spring Talon writes:
>>>
>>><mass quantites of non-recylcable trash snipped>
>>>
>>>>Get over yourself! I'm here to have fun, talk about comics, and correct gross
>>>>errors when I come across them.
>>>
>>> Talk about comics? Have you done that yet? You must post more than 20
>>>times a day here, but it is it ever on topic?
>>
>>topic, drift happens. Hasn't the plot for Cerebus drifted in the last 100
>>issues?
>
>went to the trouble of typing a reply. And, somehow, you managed not to
>answer any questions I asked.
The answers are there in the questions I asked. How on earth did you miss it?
For those having trouble, I'll explain. "Talk about comics?" Why yes, I
discuss Cerebus mainly. "Have you done that yet?" Many times, including the
reply to you. "...is it ever on topic?" When I replied by asking about the
plot drift on Cerebus, I wasn't adding some stupid OBCOMICS that people use to
rationalize their rants, no, I *was* discussing both comics and the
situation...the apparent plot drift in Cerebus really isn't because all is not
what it appears. Everything there will fit nicely into the overall arc. If you
need any more explanation than this, I'm afraid you'll have to look elsewhere.
>That's plum remarkable. In fact, your response
>utterly failed to have anything at all to do with replying to my post.
Wrong, see above.
>You're
>right, that thread drift is a bitch - you let one get away from you in
>mid-article.
Not really, see above.
> In a more direct vein, YOU said "I'm here to have fun, talk about
>comics..." Just you, paco. You never mentioned thread drift, or anyone
>else's posting habits. In fact, you said you're hear to talk about comics,
>then try a snappy comeback about thread drift to defend the fact that you
>never talk about comics.
In this case, I was discussing the Planet Comics case like everone else in this
thread. The topic drifted, and everyone replying is guilty. The question is
why do you accuse only me? Let's see if *you* can answer a question for a
change.
> You're a troll, son. That's what you call people who post to certain
>newgroups solely to perpetuate controversial and off-topic rants.
Then we all are, dad.
>If you
>actually DO post legitimately to a group from time to time, that's one thing,
>but... Yeah, you're just trolling. And you have a remarkably short attention
>span, too, if you can't stay on topic long enough to respond to a 2 line post.
> Feel free to reply again, and elaborate on your divergent posting habits, but
>I won't hold my breath. Trolls never admit they're wrong :)
And people who are not trolls never admit to it when falsely accused. :)
Talon T M
Of course, I could be wrong
Kevin J. Maroney
Note redirect to rec.arts.comics.alternative.
Andrew Ducker <and...@irw-associates.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <61s45h$p...@drn.zippo.com>, Natural Spring Talon <?@?.?>
>writes
>>And what is the ratio for everyone else in this thread? Yes, it started out on
>>topic, drift happens. Hasn't the plot for Cerebus drifted in the last 100
>>issues?
>
>Certianly has. Speeking of such things, what was the general opinion on
>Guys?
I felt that it was easily the most entertaining _Cerebus_ story since
_High Society_, especially if one did what I now consider absolutely
necessary for reading _Cerebus_: skip the text bit. (Specifically,
skip the pseudo-Norman Mailer. It's abominable.)
I would have enjoyed it far more if I hadn't read _Reads_ first, of
course. The relationship between Cerebus and Johanna is a wonderful
depiction of the dynamics of a certain type of dysfunctional
interaction between men and women, and reads very well as that;
however, in the wake of _Reads_, the story is somewhat poisoned by an
awareness that Sim seems to consider it an accurate representation of
the dynamics of *all* male-female interactions.
And I missed a lot of the self-publishing jokes.
natural_spring_talon
In article <344277...@po.cwru.edu>, zen says...
>
>Natural, Spring, Talon wrote:
>>
>> In article <61rirl$bj$1...@carlf.dialup.access.net>, ca...@panix.com says...
>> >
>>>On 12 Oct 1997 13:28:36 -0700, Natural Spring Talon <NaturalSpringTalon> wrote:
>ne. Then, he writes:
>> >
>>>>BTW...it's awful late in the game to whine "troll, troll!"...that's a sure
>>sign
>> >>that you're at wit's end and admit defeat.
>> >
>> >Rick, didn't you notice that *I* haven't been arguing with you? How
>> >can I be facing defeat in a fight I'm not involved in?
>>
>>My bad. I was surrounded and thought that you were one of the kickers. You're
>>just the one with the pointed stick. But think about it, if you were reading,
>> you *were* involved. Hey, you picked sides and didn't point out any of the
>> possible trolls from a few dozen from the other side. And they *are* there.
>
>it's amazing how he can shit on the computer screen in shapes
>that look like letters.
Hell, *you* try it and see if you don't find out just how easy it is! Heh!
Talon T M
How's the old lady, BTW? :)
natural_spring_talon
In article <61tcuk$q...@panix.com>, fire...@panix.com says...
>
>Timothy J. Butler (tbu...@ford.com) wrote:
>: Elayne Wechsler-Chaput wrote:
>: > : Planet Comics were undertaken by local law enforcement and the courts, not
>: > : the "religious right", whoever they are.
>: >
>: > Incorrect. Read my synopsis from the National Coalition Against
>: > Censorship,
>
>: Now THERE'S an objective source.
>
>Of course they're objective. They have equal contempt for ANYone doing
>the censoring, whether it's law enforcement or religious zealots.
>
>: >which I transcribed in its entirety on That Other Thread.
>: > This is a *pattern*, not an isolated incident.
>
>: Wow, I didn't realize the religious right (whoever they are) had that
>: much power.
>
>Unfortunately, they do. For whatever stupid reason, people are afraid to
>stand up to these morons.
Ignore her, Tim...she's a troll.
Talon T M
natural_spring_talon
In article <gBG7SpAT...@irw-associates.demon.co.uk>, Andrew says...
>
>In article <61s45h$p...@drn.zippo.com>, Natural Spring Talon <?@?.?>
>writes
>>And what is the ratio for everyone else in this thread? Yes, it started out on
>>topic, drift happens. Hasn't the plot for Cerebus drifted in the last 100
>>issues?
>
>Certianly has. Speeking of such things, what was the general opinion on
>Guys?
I liked it a lot as well. I think Sim has set up another 'calm before the
storm' scenario and is about to just wax some major ass. Just be ready for the
end of Rick's Story...I'll bet it will turn this saga on it's ear (pun
intended).
Talon T M
Under the Bridge
natural_spring_talon
In article <3442D2D6...@ucet.ufl.edu>, john says...
>
>a totally clueless Timothy J. Butler wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Sorry dear, but the raids on Planet Comics were carried out by the
>> police. The
>> proprietors of the store had their day in court. You may think that
>> the
>> religious right runs those institutions, but many of us would disagree
>> with
>> you.
>>
>
>catch a fucking clue you idiot.
Never mind him, Tim, he's a troll.
Talon T M
ShutUpRob
In article <3441a2a3....@news.concentric.net>, uec...@cris.com (B.
P. Uecker) writes:
>ObComics:
>Wasn't the Phantom Zone really just an all-encompassing kill-file? I
>would think, sooner or later, someone would have gotten their hands on
>this contraption and gone berserk with it. I'm sure there must have
>been a story on this, but I've never read it.
>
>And why didn't Supes just whip it out whenever he confronted a villain
>(aside from the detrimental effect this would have had on the stories)?
>
>(I mean, whip out a PZ projector, not...)
If the Phantom Zone was an all-encompassing kill-file, then what
does that make Rac Shade's Meta-zone?
-- Rob Jensen
=========================================
"What people ARE asking for is a story that reads just as
well whether you are familiar with the previous works or not."
-- Jason Fliegel, on comic books
Timothy J. Butler
Agreed. He's already being ignored.
>
> Talon T M
Tim
Timothy J. Butler
zen and the art of damonance wrote:
>
> Timothy J. Butler wrote:
> >
> > Elayne Wechsler-Chaput wrote:
> > >
> > > Timothy J. Butler (tbu...@ford.com) wrote:
> > > : Elayne Wechsler-Chaput wrote:
> > > : >
> > > : >
> > > : > by members of the religious right who do not believe in the separation of
> > > : > church and state, among other things. The thread drift is understandable.
> > > : >Just keeping you honest, Elayne. It is my understanding that the actions against
> > >
> > > : the "religious right", whoever they are.
> > >
> > > Incorrect. Read my synopsis from the National Coalition Against
> > > Censorship,
> >
> > Now THERE'S an objective source.
>
>
> > >which I transcribed in its entirety on That Other Thread.
> > > This is a *pattern*, not an isolated incident.
> >
> > Wow, I didn't realize the religious right (whoever they are) had that much power.
> >
> > proprietors of the store had their day in court. You may think that the
> > religious right runs those institutions, but many of us would disagree with
> > you.
>
> responding to outcry from religious right organaizations
> was the cause.
Probably the case. (And I might add, I still don't know who the
"religious right" is.) However, you have proved my point. Regardless
of who was pressuring the public officials involved, it was they, not
some nebulous, unidentified religious organization who proceeded
against Planet Comics. They could've told the citizenry to get lost.
>
> if said organizations actually valued all
> of the first ammendment, there'd be a lot fewer
> problems all around.
They do. However, as I have already pointed out, the materials in
question were judged obscene and therefore not protected by the
First Amendment. I don't believe the "religious right" made that
call either.
zen and the art of damonance
if said organizations actually valued all
of the first ammendment, there'd be a lot fewer
problems all around.
--
Bradly E. Peterson
"Timothy J. Butler" <tbu...@ford.com> done said this here deal:
>Elayne Wechsler-Chaput wrote:
>>which I transcribed in its entirety on That Other Thread.
>> This is a *pattern*, not an isolated incident.
>Wow, I didn't realize the religious right (whoever they are) had that much power.
>Not only the cops but the courts take orders from them.
>Sorry dear, but the raids on Planet Comics were carried out by the police. The
>proprietors of the store had their day in court. You may think that the
>religious right runs those institutions, but many of us would disagree with
>you.
The police acted because of the "Oklahomans for Children and
Families". They put the pressure on the politicians to raid the
shop. That's the "religious right" that everyone seems to be
referring to.
Bradly E. Peterson, Psychodrama Press
"I stared long and hard into the abyss...
... and saw myself staring back"
"Great spirits have always encountered
violent opposition from mediocre minds"
(Albert Einstein)
<http://www.fastlane.net/homepages/drama>
(Remove SPAMBLOCK from address to reply)
natural_spring_talon
In article <3443d0a3...@news.crossover.com>, kmar...@crossover.com
says...
>>
>>Agreed. He's already being ignored.
>
Well, I sure ain't gonna roll over! Woof Woof!
>And, btw, Tim? Ta-ta. You might benefit from learning that if your
>only ally is someone who delights in posting lies to get attention,
>you might want to reconsider your approach.
Don't pay attention to Kevin, either...he's just another in a long line of
hostile trolls.
Talon T M
Kevin J. Maroney
"Timothy J. Butler" <tbu...@ford.com> wrote:
>> Never mind him, Tim, he's a troll.
>
>Agreed. He's already being ignored.
Ooh! Talon's learned a new trick! Fetch, boy, fetch!
And, btw, Tim? Ta-ta. You might benefit from learning that if your
only ally is someone who delights in posting lies to get attention,
you might want to reconsider your approach.
--
Bradly E. Peterson
dun...@email.uc.edu (Vermilion) done said this here deal:
>I won't hold my breath. Trolls never admit they're wrong :)
That's a lie!
uh... no wait. If I say... But then that makes me...
Never mind.
heh...
Andrew Ducker
In article <3443A0...@ford.com>, "Timothy J. Butler"
<tbu...@ford.com> writes
>zen and the art of damonance wrote:
>> of the first ammendment, there'd be a lot fewer
>> problems all around.
>
>question were judged obscene and therefore not protected by the
>First Amendment. I don't believe the "religious right" made that
>call either.
I don't remember the first amendment saying 'oh yeah, obviously except
anything with tits in it.'
And does anyone know the religious/political orientation of the judge?
(and I mean _know_, no guessing please)
Samael
--
Home: sam...@dial.pipex.com
Work: and...@irw-associates.demon.co.uk
Bradly E. Peterson
uec...@cris.com (B. P. Uecker) done said this here deal:
>ObComics:
>Wasn't the Phantom Zone really just an all-encompassing kill-file? I
>would think, sooner or later, someone would have gotten their hands on
>this contraption and gone berserk with it. I'm sure there must have
>been a story on this, but I've never read it.
Haven't seen one. And you just KNOW the Joker is troll. Viola?
heh...
>And why didn't Supes just whip it out whenever he confronted a villain
>(aside from the detrimental effect this would have had on the stories)?
Because they didn't draw it in!
>(I mean, whip out a PZ projector, not...)
OH! You meant... It wasn't...
Never mind. heh...
OB Supes "whipping it out": Has anyone here seen the Milo Manara
sketch of why Supes should NOT do the nasty with a non-super
female? heh... Too bizarre.
Timothy J. Butler
>
> >Probably the case. (And I might add, I still don't know who the
> >"religious right" is.)
>
> and his followers, Wildmon and his followers, You, the Ralph Reed/Pat
> Robertson/Christian Coalition cabal...
> ---Tom Vincent
Hhhmmmm. Well I don't know how often the others get together, but I've
never been in the same room with any of the people you mentioned. And
yet, I'm part of the "religious right"? First I've heard of it.
Care to take a stab at who the "loony left" is?
Tom Vincent
>Probably the case. (And I might add, I still don't know who the
>"religious right" is.)
Plitically active conservative religious groups, such as your buddy Dobson
and his followers, Wildmon and his followers, You, the Ralph Reed/Pat
Robertson/Christian Coalition cabal...
---Tom Vincent
Her eyes brimmed with tears. "The Princess is dead, and now the Mother is
zen and the art of damonance
Timothy J. Butler wrote:
>
> Tom Vincent wrote:
> >
> > In article <3443A0...@ford.com>, "Timothy J. Butler" <tbu...@ford.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Probably the case. (And I might add, I still don't know who the
> > >"religious right" is.)
> >
> > Plitically active conservative religious groups, such as your buddy Dobson
> > and his followers, Wildmon and his followers, You, the Ralph Reed/Pat
> > Robertson/Christian Coalition cabal...
> > ---Tom Vincent
>
> never been in the same room with any of the people you mentioned. And
> yet, I'm part of the "religious right"? First I've heard of it.
>
> Care to take a stab at who the "loony left" is?
goofy.
probably bugs, too.
Timothy J. Butler
zen and the art of damonance wrote:
>
> >
> > Tom Vincent wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <3443A0...@ford.com>, "Timothy J. Butler" <tbu...@ford.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Probably the case. (And I might add, I still don't know who the
> > > >"religious right" is.)
> > >
> > > Plitically active conservative religious groups, such as your buddy Dobson
> > > and his followers, Wildmon and his followers, You, the Ralph Reed/Pat
> > > Robertson/Christian Coalition cabal...
> > > ---Tom Vincent
> >
> > Hhhmmmm. Well I don't know how often the others get together, but I've
> > never been in the same room with any of the people you mentioned. And
> > yet, I'm part of the "religious right"? First I've heard of it.
> >
> > Care to take a stab at who the "loony left" is?
>
> goofy.
>
> probably bugs, too.
Naw. Bugs is definitely conservative. He's too mean-spirited to be otherwise.
Look at how he treats Elmer Fudd, who I suspect voted for Clinton in the last
election.
Goofy? I'd call him libertarian just on name alone.
Anyone else we can label?
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
Timothy J. Butler (tbu...@ford.com) wrote:
: Care to take a stab at who the "loony left" is?
That would be Gates, a member of the Legion of Super-Heroes.
- Elayne (look Ma, a comics newsgroup!)
--
"Very few people possess true artistic ability. It is therefore both
unseemly and unproductive to irritate the situation by making an effort.
If you have a burning, restless urge to write or paint, simply eat
something sweet and the feeling will pass." - Fran Lebowitz
ShutUpRob
In article <3444EE...@ford.com>, "Timothy J. Butler"
<tbu...@ford.com> writes:
>zen and the art of damonance wrote:
>>
>> Timothy J. Butler wrote:
>> >
>> > Tom Vincent wrote:
>> > >
>> > > In article <3443A0...@ford.com>, "Timothy J. Butler"
><tbu...@ford.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > >Probably the case. (And I might add, I still don't know who the
>> > > >"religious right" is.)
>> > >
>> > > Plitically active conservative religious groups, such as your buddy
>Dobson
>> > > and his followers, Wildmon and his followers, You, the Ralph Reed/Pat
>> > > Robertson/Christian Coalition cabal...
>> > > ---Tom Vincent
>> >
>> > Hhhmmmm. Well I don't know how often the others get together, but I've
>> > never been in the same room with any of the people you mentioned. And
>> > yet, I'm part of the "religious right"? First I've heard of it.
>> >
>> > Care to take a stab at who the "loony left" is?
>>
>> goofy.
>>
>> probably bugs, too.
>
>Naw. Bugs is definitely conservative. He's too mean-spirited to be otherwise.
>Look at how he treats Elmer Fudd, who I suspect voted for Clinton in the last
>election.
At best, Bugs is a libertarian. At worst, an anarchist.[1]
I'm surprised I have to remind you of Bugs's disdain for rules.
>Goofy? I'd call him libertarian just on name alone.
Goofy -- Moderate Republican. He's basically been domesticated
into a suburban Cog in the Machine.
>Anyone else we can label?
In no particular order -- (remember, you asked for it):
The Care Bears -- Communists
The Smurfs -- Sexist Communists
Barney -- Damn Hippie Freak!
The Transformers -- Autobots -- Democrats
-- Decepticons -- Nixonian Republican Plumbers
Batman -- Undeclared ("What -- and encourage *either* side?")
Ambush Bug -- Anarchist
Superman -- Undeclared ("What -- and let any party use me as a
symbol?")
Captain America -- Same thing
Wolverine -- Republican
Green Lantern (CFG) -- Democrat
Flash -- Democrat
Wonder Woman -- resident alien, no voting status (would probably
register Peace & Freedom)
Guy Gardner -- Republican during GL years, now Libertarian
Aquaman -- sovereign of another nation, no voting status (would
probably register Green party)
Hulk -- As Banner -- Undeclared ("What -- and let somebody control
me?")
Iron Man -- Republican
Fantastic Four -- Reed and Sue -- Democrat
-- Ben and Johnny -- Republican (though Johnny might eventually
change)
Spider-Man -- Democrat
Cyclops (and most other X-Men) -- Democrat
Hawk -- umm . . . Right Wing (Yeah! That's the ticket!)
Dove -- Duuuuh . . . Left Wing?
Abby Arcane Cable Holland (Carrington Colby Dexter) -- naturalized
citizen -- Card-Carrying Liberal Democrat
Snuffleupaguss -- Republican, but that's because of the Elephant
Is this thread on-topic yet? =)
-- Rob Jensen -- Undeclared
[1] Of course, we're talking about my value judgments of the two
politcal stances relative to each other, rather than on either an
absolute scale or on my own value judgments regarding the entire
political spectrum. (Or sphere, as I like to think of it.)
Tom Vincent
In article <344540...@po.cwru.edu>, db...@po.cwru.edu wrote:
>
>meese commission and all that.
Actually, Meese kind of did all the pervs in the world a really big favor,
as he created the most comprehensive cataloging of porno videos I'd ever
seen. Sure saved me a lot of time reading the backs of all those boxes...
Lemming
Natural Spring Talon sayethed:
>In article <rjungEH...@netcom.com>, rj...@netcom.com says...
>>
>>In article <61s4jt$r...@drn.zippo.com> Natural Spring Talon writes:
>>> Ya think? :)
>>
>> Well, YOU don't, so someone else has to...
> Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.
>>
>> (It's people like you, Talon, that give Christians a bad name. Congrats.)
> It's people like you that give comedians a bad name. You're welcome.
How comedy could exist without people like him?
Lemming
writing portfolio and strange opinions at:
http://www2.cybernex.net/~lemming7/
The world has held great heroes/As history-books have showed/
But never a name to go down to fame/Compared with that of Toad!
Lemming
tom...@SPAMBLOCKcapital.net (Tom Vincent) sayethed:
>If he's the bigot he appears to be, he's a fucking idiot.
>If he's a troll, he's a fucking idiot without a life.
The case could be made that trolls are the only ones who -have- a
life. Of all the people wasting time in these groups, they're the
only ones enjoying themselves.
>In either case, he's a killfiled done deal for me. I'm fed up with assholism.
I personally like to tell everyone I've killfiled people and secretly
go on reading their posts. Except eventually they say something I
want to respond to, so I have to make up a whole new story or admit
that no one cares who I do or don't read. I've compromised by
deleting the articles by people I don't care about.
Though it's sure fun to say PLONK....
Lemming
tom...@SPAMBLOCKcapital.net (Tom Vincent) sayethed:
>In article <344540...@po.cwru.edu>, db...@po.cwru.edu wrote:
>>
>>meese commission and all that.
>Actually, Meese kind of did all the pervs in the world a really big favor,
>as he created the most comprehensive cataloging of porno videos I'd ever
>seen. Sure saved me a lot of time reading the backs of all those boxes...
Do you think he'd appreciate a thank-you card?
I can think of some -good- ones....
Lemming
zen and the art of damonance <db...@po.cwru.edu> sayethed:
>Timothy J. Butler wrote:
>>
>> Tom Vincent wrote:
>> >
>> > In article <3443A0...@ford.com>, "Timothy J. Butler" <tbu...@ford.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >Probably the case. (And I might add, I still don't know who the
>> > >"religious right" is.)
>> >
>> > Plitically active conservative religious groups, such as your buddy Dobson
>> > and his followers, Wildmon and his followers, You, the Ralph Reed/Pat
>> > Robertson/Christian Coalition cabal...
>> > ---Tom Vincent
>>
>> Hhhmmmm. Well I don't know how often the others get together, but I've
>> never been in the same room with any of the people you mentioned. And
>> yet, I'm part of the "religious right"? First I've heard of it.
>>
>> Care to take a stab at who the "loony left" is?
>goofy.
>probably bugs, too.
J. R. Bob Dobbs. Hagbard Celine. Ambush Bug.
They all live in Negativland.
Lemming
>No, that's the Oklahomans for Children and Families. I don't believe
>they go by the name of "religious right".
I'm hereby inagurating the group Oklahomans Against Childrens and
Families. We're also against kittens and sunshine. All that's
required to join is a healthy hatred of humanity and a knowledge of
where Oklahoma is.
zen and the art of damonance
From: "Timothy J. Butler" <tbu...@ford.com>
<<<<zen and the art of damonance wrote:
> methinks that local politicians/law enforcement agencies
> responding to outcry from religious right organaizations
> was the cause.
Probably the case. (And I might add, I still don't know who the
"religious right" is.) >>>>
oh, sorry.
think 'moral majority'.
<<<<
> if said organizations actually valued all
> of the first ammendment, there'd be a lot fewer
> problems all around.
They do. However, as I have already pointed out, the materials in
question were judged obscene and therefore not protected by the
First Amendment. I don't believe the "religious right" made that
call either.>>>>
no, they don't. the first ammendment makes
no exemption for obsecenity. the exemption stems
from the overly puritan nature of this country. said
religious righters don't want any sort of obscenity
to exist; they wish to censor it completely.[1] and,
it's mostly THEM that are doing it, and leading efforts to get it
banned.
meese commission and all that.
these are the same people who cry out for their religious
freedom based on the 1st ammendment, but don't think that
everybody should be allowed to say whatever they want to say.
[1] insert mediating qualifiers.
Lemming
kmar...@crossover.com (Kevin J. Maroney) sayethed:
>ca...@panix.com (Carl Fink) wrote:
>>Didn't anyone else notice that Rick wasn't a fanatical Fundamentalist
>>Christian six months ago? Granted I don't read his articles often,
>>but I never noticed this -- in fact, didn't he post obscene and
>>profane stuff fairly recently?
>I don't remember him ever having posted anything profane. I find it
>quite credible that Rick is flat-out trolling, but I find it also
>quite likely that he's doing what he did in the Interminable Sim
>Flamewars, which is exaggerating his own beliefs and presenting them
>antagonistically--a refined sort of trolling which might deserve a
>separate name.
Devil's advocating?
Lemming
dun...@email.uc.edu (Vermilion) sayethed:
>In article <61rbtk$a...@drn.zippo.com> Natural Spring Talon writes:
><mass quantites of non-recylcable trash snipped>
>>Get over yourself! I'm here to have fun, talk about comics, and correct gross
>>errors when I come across them.
> Talk about comics? Have you done that yet? You must post more than 20
>times a day here, but it is it ever on topic?
I believe this qualifies as fun.
It's sure why I'm doing it.
Lemming
The attributions might be screwed up. If so, well, learn to cope.
zen and the art of damonance <db...@po.cwru.edu> sayethed:
>Timothy J. Butler wrote:
>>
>> Elayne Wechsler-Chaput wrote:
>> >
>> > Incorrect. Read my synopsis from the National Coalition Against
>> > Censorship,
>>
>> Now THERE'S an objective source.
>THAT'S a silly thing to say; as if there are ANY objective sources.
I'd trust the National Coaltion Against Censorship (NCAC) more than
the National Coalition FOR Censorship (NCFC), so I guess it's a matter
of degrees.
>> >which I transcribed in its entirety on That Other Thread.
>> > This is a *pattern*, not an isolated incident.
>>
>> Wow, I didn't realize the religious right (whoever they are) had that much power.
>> Not only the cops but the courts take orders from them.
>>
>> Sorry dear, but the raids on Planet Comics were carried out by the police. The
>> proprietors of the store had their day in court. You may think that the
>> religious right runs those institutions, but many of us would disagree with
>> you.
>methinks that local politicians/law enforcement agencies
>responding to outcry from religious right organaizations
>was the cause.
Ditto. The idea that the "religious right" might "influence" the
courts of Oklahoma, snake-handling capital of America, doesn't strike
me as all that far-fetched.
Obnothing: To be completely honest, I'm in favor of -some-
censorship. But I'm very wary of the company I keep in that view.
Lemming
Natural Spring Talon sayethed:
>In article <tom127-ya0236800...@news.capital.net>,
>tom...@SPAMBLOCKcapital.net says...
>>Rick, why the naughtyword do you think it's called the "religious RIGHT"?
>Probably for the same reason someone made up the word, "homophobe" (which
>mistakenly implies "fear of homosexuals" rather than what is the reality, which
>is "the disgust of homosexual activity")...and that reason is that it makes a
>nice label in order to set up perfect target for rationalization and feel-good
>pholosophy. Hey, you asked.
Nope. Just checked the dictionary. Homophobe means "one who fears
homosexuals." Maybe because they've got knives or claws or jews or
something.
I think -you- need a different word. May I suggest narrowmindedbigot?
Really, you can use what you like. I'm gonna keep callin' 'em
homophobes anyway.
Andrew Ducker
In article <EI4Mr...@nonexistent.com>, Lemming <lemm...@cybernex.net>
writes
>I personally like to tell everyone I've killfiled people and secretly
>go on reading their posts. Except eventually they say something I
>want to respond to, so I have to make up a whole new story or admit
>that no one cares who I do or don't read. I've compromised by
>deleting the articles by people I don't care about.
>
>Though it's sure fun to say PLONK....
*plonk*
it certainly is.
Timothy J. Butler
Bradly E. Peterson wrote:
>
> "Timothy J. Butler" <tbu...@ford.com> done said this here deal:
> >Elayne Wechsler-Chaput wrote:
>
> >>which I transcribed in its entirety on That Other Thread.
> >> This is a *pattern*, not an isolated incident.
>
> >Wow, I didn't realize the religious right (whoever they are) had that much power.
> >Not only the cops but the courts take orders from them.
>
> >Sorry dear, but the raids on Planet Comics were carried out by the police. The
> >proprietors of the store had their day in court. You may think that the
> >religious right runs those institutions, but many of us would disagree with
> >you.
>
> Families". They put the pressure on the politicians to raid the
> shop. That's the "religious right" that everyone seems to be
> referring to.
No, that's the Oklahomans for Children and Families. I don't believe
they go by the name of "religious right".
As far as I can gather, the "religious right" is a garbage can term
used by ultra left wing radicals to describe anyone they don't like.
Tom Vincent
In article <3445FF...@ford.com>, "Timothy J. Butler" <tbu...@ford.com>
wrote:
>
>No, that's the Oklahomans for Children and Families. I don't believe
>they go by the name of "religious right".
>
>As far as I can gather, the "religious right" is a garbage can term
>used by ultra left wing radicals to describe anyone they don't like.
Funny, I always thought that "ultra left wing radicals" was a term used by
the religious right to describe anyone *they* don't like.
ob comics- other than Jughead and Fat Freddy Freak, which other characters
are dense?
zen and the art of damonance
Timothy J. Butler wrote:
>
> Tom Vincent wrote:
> >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >No, that's the Oklahomans for Children and Families. I don't believe
> > >they go by the name of "religious right".
> > >
> > >As far as I can gather, the "religious right" is a garbage can term
> > >used by ultra left wing radicals to describe anyone they don't like.
> >
> > Funny, I always thought that "ultra left wing radicals" was a term used by
> > the religious right to describe anyone *they* don't like.
>
you're not aware of yourself?
I made it
> up. Should I trademark it?
'left wing radicals', 'communists', hippies', and countless others
have been used.
religious right applies only to right wingers who
are religious, not *anyone*.
steve forbes is not described as religous right.
ralph[?] reed is. so is jerry falwell.
afaic, you're just as silly in your denial as
those left wing radicals who don't
think 'political correctness' exists.
PatDOneill
In article <344621...@ford.com>, "Timothy J. Butler"
<tbu...@ford.com> writes:
>> However, the police didn't just up and decide, hey, let's raid that
>> comics shop; complaints were made by the group Oklahomans for Children
>> and Families, a right-wing pro-censorship group.
>
>And then the police decided to enforce the law.
What law? The law that makes it a crime to sell adult material to
adults? Is there such a law in Oklahoma? Wouldn't that be a violation
of the First Amendment?
Best, Pat
The words and opinions expressed are those of Patrick Daniel O'Neill and
do not represent the opinions or policies of WIZARD: THE GUIDE TO COMICS.
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
: >
: > However, the police didn't just up and decide, hey, let's raid that
: > comics shop; complaints were made by the group Oklahomans for Children
: > and Families, a right-wing pro-censorship group.
: And then the police decided to enforce the law.
What law?
- Elayne
Tom Vincent
In article <19971016233...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
shut...@aol.com (ShutUpRob) wrote:
>In article <tom127-ya0236800...@news.capital.net>,
>tom...@SPAMBLOCKcapital.net (Tom Vincent) writes:
>
>>
>>ob comics- other than Jughead and Fat Freddy Freak, which other
>>characters are dense?
>
> Charlie-27 (Umm, probably not in the way that you mean, but . . .),
It wasn't, but it was very clever and I like it. :-)
Timothy J. Butler
zen and the art of damonance wrote:
>
> Timothy J. Butler wrote:
> >
> > Tom Vincent wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <3445FF...@ford.com>, "Timothy J. Butler" <tbu...@ford.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >No, that's the Oklahomans for Children and Families. I don't believe
> > > >they go by the name of "religious right".
> > > >
> > > >As far as I can gather, the "religious right" is a garbage can term
> > > >used by ultra left wing radicals to describe anyone they don't like.
> > >
> > > Funny, I always thought that "ultra left wing radicals" was a term used by
> > > the religious right to describe anyone *they* don't like.
> >
> > I'm not aware of anyone who uses the phrase "ultra left wing radicals".
>
> you're not aware of yourself?
I am totally aware of myself. You however I'm not too sure of. You appear
to consist of disjointed, nonsensical phrases on my computer screen.
>
> I made it
> > up. Should I trademark it?
>
> 'left wing radicals', 'communists', hippies', and countless others
> have been used.
Not by me.
>
> religious right applies only to right wingers who
> are religious, not *anyone*.
Whew. Glad that's cleared up. Now, what's a right winger? And what
do you mean by religious?
>
> steve forbes is not described as religous right.
He's very happy to hear that. (He's reading over my shoulder right now.)
>
> ralph[?] reed is. so is jerry falwell.
Ralph Reed is Jerry Falwell? Have you told anybody about this?
>
> afaic, you're just as silly in your denial as
> those left wing radicals who don't
> think 'political correctness' exists.
Well, if that's the case, I'd better change out of my denial so
people will start taking me seriously.