HELP!! FAWCETT question
mary hickman-brown,ca217 ac,244-5016,6
Recently there was a thread about DC magic heroes, and I listed Ibis as one.
I was emailed that DC didn't own Ibis, since he was a Fawcett character, and
had only licenced to use the characters in the seventies. When they bought
the Marvel family, DC bought ONLY the Marvel family.
I went back and checked, and I found reference to DC "Aranging to publish
the Fawcett characters" in the text piece to the SHAZAM mini from the 80's.
I wasn't able to find the reference that I thought I remembered (couldn't
find the book I thought it was in either...) that said DC bought ALL the
Fawcett characters when they bought the Marvel Family.
Could someone help me with this? Who owns the rights to the non-Marvel
Fawcett characters? (Actually any information on who owns any of the
golden age comic titles would be interesting, but I am interested in this
in particular) Any help with this would be appreciated.
-Chris
would-be keeper of the Ibis flame?
Todd Allen
characters in the 70's. I remember a JSA/JLA/Earth-S(hazam) cross-over with
Bulletman, Spy Smasher, and Mr. Scarlet. I think when that lease ran out, DC
either didn't, or wasn't able to, renew. I can't remember having seen a
Fawcett hero outside of the Marvel Family for years. BTW, Kid Eternity was
originally a quality character and his incorporation into the Marvel Family
mythos was a retcon (if a clever one).
Can anybody back me up on this?
-Todd
David Stepp
Is it not true that Ibis appeared in the JLA/JSA team-up in
issues 135-137? The index (1988) lists this as his last apperance to
date. Also Bulletman and Bulletgirl were Fawcett heroes that appeared in
a couple of DC titles. Finally there was a reprint of an Ibis story in
a 1970's issue of Batman or Detective Comics. Ergo DC, at some point,
must have owned them all.
D.
SCOTTHOL
: Is it not true that Ibis appeared in the JLA/JSA team-up in
: date. Also Bulletman and Bulletgirl were Fawcett heroes that appeared in
: a couple of DC titles. Finally there was a reprint of an Ibis story in
: a 1970's issue of Batman or Detective Comics. Ergo DC, at some point,
: must have owned them all.
DC editors have told me time and again that DC once had the right to
publish stories with those characters, but don't anymore. I don't know
any more details than that. In addition to the "Squadron of Justice"
appearance in the JLA/JSA team-up (which included Bulletman,
Bulletgirl, Spy Smasher, Mr. Scarlett, Pinky, Ibis and Mercury), a couple of
these heroes made guest appearances in the '70s SHAZAM! series.
(My question is, Spy Smasher became Crime Smasher after the war. Why
did he revert to "Spy Smasher"? :-) )
-
Scott Hollifield / sco...@cris.com
----------------------------------------
"Look at that! He's like, mocking everyone else."
-- overheard in front of Dali's _The Sardana of Witches_ at the
Metropolitan Museum of Art (SPY, 12/94)
Rob Postuma (Concordia University)
>mhic...@dekalb.dc.peachnet.edu (mary hickman-brown,ca217 ac,244-5016,6) writes:
>
>>Okay, Here goes....
>>
>>Recently there was a thread about DC magic heroes, and I listed Ibis as one.
>>I was emailed that DC didn't own Ibis, since he was a Fawcett character, and
>>had only licenced to use the characters in the seventies. When they bought
>>the Marvel family, DC bought ONLY the Marvel family.
>
>issues 135-137? The index (1988) lists this as his last apperance to
>date. Also Bulletman and Bulletgirl were Fawcett heroes that appeared in
>a couple of DC titles. Finally there was a reprint of an Ibis story in
>a 1970's issue of Batman or Detective Comics. Ergo DC, at some point,
>must have owned them all.
I also remember the character "Minute Man" appearing in SHAZAM for one issue.
Rob Postuma
M Waid
characters is a common misconception. For years, DC had to pay a
licensing fee in order to use them (which, BTW, is why Captain
Marvel was only in the first six issues of 1987's JUSTICE LEAGUE
relauch; that's all DC felt like paying for at the time...)
However, about four years ago, DC bought all Fawcett characters
lock, stock, and barrel, meaning that the Marvels, Ibis, Golden
Arrow, Minuteman, et al are now DC's free and clear. Hoo-hah.
David Haglund
(SCOTTHOL) wrote:
> DC editors have told me time and again that DC once had the right to
> publish stories with those characters, but don't anymore. I don't know
> any more details than that. In addition to the "Squadron of Justice"
> appearance in the JLA/JSA team-up (which included Bulletman,
> Bulletgirl, Spy Smasher, Mr. Scarlett, Pinky, Ibis and Mercury), a couple of
> these heroes made guest appearances in the '70s SHAZAM! series.
Mercury? Is this the one in recent issues of Flash? I can't remember any
Mercury when I read Crisis on Earth-S some years ago.
I too, would like some more info on copyrighted "DC" heroes like the ones
from Fawcett, Quality and Magazine Enterprises (Dan Brand, Durango Kid).
When did DC buy these companies, or which heroes were they allowed to use?
I'm compiling an index over DC Comics in Sweden, and the Swedish publisher
hasn't got a clue.
BTW, wasn't Ibis in the Secret Origins issue featuring Zatara and Zatanna?
And what about his recent apperance in Swamp Thing?
David H, more puzzled than ever...
--
"Quid licet Jovi, non licet bovi."
(No, I won't change my sig until someone figures out what it means and where it's from and emails me about it. I've recieved one reply, and it's close.)
michael kelly
M Waid <72102...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
|> For the record, the idea that DC doesn't have rights to the Fawcett
|> characters is a common misconception. For years, DC had to pay a
|> licensing fee in order to use them (which, BTW, is why Captain
|> Marvel was only in the first six issues of 1987's JUSTICE LEAGUE
|> relauch; that's all DC felt like paying for at the time...)
Thanks for that info! I had never heard that before.
|> However, about four years ago, DC bought all Fawcett characters
|> lock, stock, and barrel, meaning that the Marvels, Ibis, Golden
|> Arrow, Minuteman, et al are now DC's free and clear. Hoo-hah.
As anyone who has been reading my reviews of 1941 Whiz comics knows,
there is a market for Golden Arrow reprints! I can just see it now...
...The Golden Arrow Archives, Volume 1!
Seriously, I doubt DC has the rights to a more enjoyable Golden Age
western hero, and the somewhat serial nature of the strip makes for
great reading. A 230 page volume should hold something like 25 adventures
of Golden Arrow.
I would buy at least one copy for myself, and I'm sure I'd end up giving
around 10 of them away as gifts (assuming they were in the $50 price
range.)
Heck, I'd even pay $100 for a quality hardcover if it were a limited
item, say 2000 released. (sort of along the lines of the "Monster
Society of Evil" slipcased hardcover, although it ought to have a
better binding.)
I realize this is a pipe dream of course, but I figure between wishing
for a Golden Age Spectre, Dr. Fate, Slam Bradley (how many appearances
did he have anyway?), Marvel Family, and now Golden Arrow reprints, at
least one of them has got to happen!
--
+ Mike Kelly, Notre Dame Department of Physics mke...@ovid.helios.nd.edu +
+ +
+ Oh, and never mind the words, just hum along and keep on going. +
+ - Ian Anderson +
mary hickman-brown,ca217 ac,244-5016,6
>
>BTW, wasn't Ibis in the Secret Origins issue featuring Zatara and Zatanna?
>And what about his recent apperance in Swamp Thing?
-Chris
mary hickman-brown,ca217 ac,244-5016,6
> M Waid <72102...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
>
>|> For the record, the idea that DC doesn't have rights to the Fawcett
>|> characters is a common misconception. For years, DC had to pay a
>|> licensing fee in order to use them (which, BTW, is why Captain
>|> Marvel was only in the first six issues of 1987's JUSTICE LEAGUE
>|> relauch; that's all DC felt like paying for at the time...)
>
>
>|> lock, stock, and barrel, meaning that the Marvels, Ibis, Golden
>|> Arrow, Minuteman, et al are now DC's free and clear. Hoo-hah.
not languishing in some unknown corner of the universe...
They're languishing at DC! :):):):):)
Seriously I'm glad to have this thing cleared up...
I now know who to send my Ibis proposal to...DC! :):):):)
Thanks!
-Chris
--
"They don't call me the Human Bomb because I'm a failure..."
Human Bomb, FREDOM FIGHTERS #3
David Haglund
Galloway) wrote:
> In article <ah94dha-0501...@mac-549-19.csd.uu.se>,
> David Haglund <ah9...@csd.uu.se> wrote:
> >Mercury? Is this the one in recent issues of Flash? I can't remember any
> >Mercury when I read Crisis on Earth-S some years ago.
>
> No, the Mercury in Crisis on Earth-S was the Earth-S Roman god Mercury
> who contributes the "M" to "Shazam". Max Mercury in Flash is the former
> Quality Comics character Quicksilver.
Ah, now I remember. Thanks for enlightening me.
> >BTW, wasn't Ibis in the Secret Origins issue featuring Zatara and Zatanna?
> >And what about his recent apperance in Swamp Thing?
>
> I don't think Ibis was in Zatara and Zatanna's origin. Maybe you're thinking
> of Dr. Mist or Felix Faust? And it's definitely Sargon the Sorceror who's
> been appearing in Swamp Thing.
Could have been Sargon in Secret Origins too. I'll check on that. Sorry
about the SwTh mistake. I blush!
David H
Todd Allen
michael kelly <mke...@ovid.helios.nd.edu> wrote:
>
> M Waid <72102...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
>
>
>I realize this is a pipe dream of course, but I figure between wishing
>for a Golden Age Spectre, Dr. Fate, Slam Bradley (how many appearances
>did he have anyway?), Marvel Family, and now Golden Arrow reprints, at
>least one of them has got to happen!
of the Jack Burnley <sp> run of Starman.
-Todd
Tom Johnston
>michael kelly <mke...@ovid.helios.nd.edu> wrote:
>>
>>I realize this is a pipe dream of course, but I figure between wishing
>>for a Golden Age Spectre, Dr. Fate, Slam Bradley (how many appearances
>>did he have anyway?), Marvel Family, and now Golden Arrow reprints, at
>>least one of them has got to happen!
> Yes, Spectre and Dr. Fate reprints. I wouldn't mind seeing a volume
>of the Jack Burnley <sp> run of Starman.
I'd like to see some Johnny Quick reprints. I remember enjoying
"Tubby Watts, Efficiency Expert" (in one of the 100pg Flash issues?)
and I'd like to see whether other JQ stories have equally interesting
stories.
mary hickman-brown,ca217 ac,244-5016,6
>In article <3eh5ng$p...@news.nd.edu>,
>michael kelly <mke...@ovid.helios.nd.edu> wrote:
>>
>> M Waid <72102...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
>>
>>
>>for a Golden Age Spectre, Dr. Fate, Slam Bradley (how many appearances
>>did he have anyway?), Marvel Family, and now Golden Arrow reprints, at
>>least one of them has got to happen!
> Yes, Spectre and Dr. Fate reprints. I wouldn't mind seeing a volume
>of the Jack Burnley <sp> run of Starman.
>
Golden Age Ibis Reprints!!!! :)
-Chris
SCOTTHOL
It's Sargon, not Ibis. The two heroes do bear a great deal of
resemblence.
(Hmm, now that we actually know, courtesy of Mr. Waid, that DC does
in fact have the rights to these characters, I too am getting hungry
for an Ibis appearance. :-) That Ibistick beats out the Ruby of Life
any day of the week.)
David Thiel
Good to hear that someone owns the rights to Bulletman, et al. However,
I'm curious--isn't one of the requirements of retaining a trademark the
continued *use* of that trademark? Bulletman, Ibis, Mr. Scarlet and Spy
Smasher haven't been used at all (by DC or Fawcett) for at least a decade.
How long before trademarks lapse into public domain?
-- David Thiel / Asst. Program Director / WILL-TV
University of Illinois / Urbana
Internet: d-t...@uiuc.edu
Disclaimer: My views do not reflect those
of WILL-TV, PBS or Barney.
Coale - M
>mary hickman-brown,ca217 ac,244-5016,6 (mhic...@dekalb.dc.peachnet.edu) wrote:
>: In a previous article, ah9...@csd.uu.se (David Haglund) says:
>: >BTW, wasn't Ibis in the Secret Origins issue featuring Zatara and Zatanna?
>: >And what about his recent apperance in Swamp Thing?
>:
>: Ibis was in Swamp Thing? Can I have more information on this?
>It's Sargon, not Ibis. The two heroes do bear a great deal of
>resemblence.
>(Hmm, now that we actually know, courtesy of Mr. Waid, that DC does
>in fact have the rights to these characters, I too am getting hungry
>for an Ibis appearance. :-) That Ibistick beats out the Ruby of Life
>any day of the week.)
Oh, come now. Sargon would easily wipe the mat with Ibis. For one thing,
Sargon has been evil and would have a clear Machiavellian advantage in
a fight. Having only seen Ibis in the JLA stories, I dont remember
his powers all that well, but if he cannot affect living organismd with
the Ibistick, then my man Sargon holds another advantage.
mlc (aka Sargon in the All-Star MUSH)
Abhiji...@transarc.com
ah9...@csd.uu.se (David Haglund) writes:
> > >BTW, wasn't Ibis in the Secret Origins issue featuring Zatara and Zatanna?
> > >And what about his recent apperance in Swamp Thing?
> >
> > I don't think Ibis was in Zatara and Zatanna's origin. Maybe you're
>>thinking of Dr. Mist or Felix Faust? And it's definitely Sargon the
>>Sorceror who's been appearing in Swamp Thing.
>
> Could have been Sargon in Secret Origins too. I'll check on that. Sorry
> about the SwTh mistake. I blush!
Sargon definitely appeared in Secret Origins #27 for a few panels,
mostly in flashbacks of Zatara's origin. I don't remember Ibis
appearing at all, and if he did (remotely possible since Roy Thomas
wrote this origin), it couldn't have been for more than a panel or so.
Abhijit
Tom Galloway
>Mercury when I read Crisis on Earth-S some years ago.
No, the Mercury in Crisis on Earth-S was the Earth-S Roman god Mercury
who contributes the "M" to "Shazam". Max Mercury in Flash is the former
Quality Comics character Quicksilver.
>BTW, wasn't Ibis in the Secret Origins issue featuring Zatara and Zatanna?
>And what about his recent apperance in Swamp Thing?
I don't think Ibis was in Zatara and Zatanna's origin. Maybe you're thinking
of Dr. Mist or Felix Faust? And it's definitely Sargon the Sorceror who's
been appearing in Swamp Thing.
"Desaad: Master, I have found it! Doom plus Magic plus IRC plus netnews
plus MUDding!"
"Darkseid: You cringing fool! That is *not* the Anti-Life Formula, it is
the No-Life Formula!" --Dave Van Domelen
tyg t...@hq.ileaf.com
Ken Arromdee
Tom Johnston <tjoh...@s.psych.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>>>I realize this is a pipe dream of course, but I figure between wishing
>>>for a Golden Age Spectre, Dr. Fate, Slam Bradley (how many appearances
>>>did he have anyway?), Marvel Family, and now Golden Arrow reprints, at
>>>least one of them has got to happen!
>> Yes, Spectre and Dr. Fate reprints. I wouldn't mind seeing a volume
>>of the Jack Burnley <sp> run of Starman.
>I'd like to see some Johnny Quick reprints.
I'd like to see issues of anything.
(How much does it cost to produce a comic book sized reprint compared to
what it costs to produce fiche? Would it be feasible for the fiche-publishing
company to put the same reprints on paper instead?)
--
Ken Arromdee (email: arro...@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu)
"No boom today. Boom tomorrow, there's always a boom tomorrow." --Ivanova
Jim Murdoch
At last! Confirmation from someone who works for DC! OK everyone, get
cracking on those proposals!
--
Jim Comics?
sm...@kaiwan.com Of course I read comics.
michael kelly
All Right! The first Ho'od Win of 1995!
mco...@bgsuvax.bgsu.edu (Coale - M) writes:
|> Sco...@voyager.cris.com (SCOTTHOL) writes:
|>
|> >It's Sargon, not Ibis. The two heroes do bear a great deal of
|> >resemblence.
|>
|> >(Hmm, now that we actually know, courtesy of Mr. Waid, that DC does
|> >in fact have the rights to these characters, I too am getting hungry
|> >for an Ibis appearance. :-) That Ibistick beats out the Ruby of Life
|> >any day of the week.)
|>
|> Oh, come now. Sargon would easily wipe the mat with Ibis. For one thing,
|> Sargon has been evil and would have a clear Machiavellian advantage in
|> a fight. Having only seen Ibis in the JLA stories, I dont remember
|> his powers all that well, but if he cannot affect living organismd with
|> the Ibistick, then my man Sargon holds another advantage.
Hate to burst your bubble, but the only weakness of the Ibistick is
that it cannot affect Black Magic(tm). For the record it doesn't appear
that Black Magic(tm) has the same disadvantage.
However, Ibis the Invincible lives up to his billing. He has the beautiful
Princess Taia at his side (and she's no slouch in the brains department
either) and Ibis frequently beseeches the gods of old to help him out.
Somehow I don't think anything Sargon can conjure up is in the same league
as Thoth or Osiris.
Neither would stand a chance against the Wizard Shazam, of course. Let's
face it, this guy had more 10 ton stone blocks dropped on his head than
just about anybody else. (well, at least he orginated the trick). He
also survived both the Crisis and Zero Hour without so much fanfare.
Of course, Shazam would prefer to just hang out on the Rock of Eternity
chiselling away, when he isn't hanging out with Lance O'Casey that is...
Michael A. Chary
In a previous article, mke...@ovid.helios.nd.edu (michael kelly) says:
>I just had a strange idea. What if Sargon the Sorcerer and Ibis the
>Invincible decided to team up and form their own supergroup, All
>Turbans All the Time.
>
>Charter members of AT-AT:
>
>Sargon the Sorcerer
>Ibis the Invincible
>Haji (from Johnny Quest)
>Punjab (from Little Orphan Annie)
>
>Who else?
I don't remember any ohters, but I am sure you'll find them. You know the
old saying: "Sikh and ye shall find."
--
Down with the Duracell Battery Family!!!! End the Puttermans' reign of
terror!!!! Write Duracell until those evil little commercials are gone!!!
"Ipsa scientia potestas est." -- Roger Bacon
michael kelly
Invincible decided to team up and form their own supergroup, All
Turbans All the Time.
Charter members of AT-AT:
Sargon the Sorcerer
Ibis the Invincible
Haji (from Johnny Quest)
Punjab (from Little Orphan Annie)
Who else?
Doctor Fate had a turban-wearing villain no? Maybe he could be persuaded
to form his own team of evil-doers?
mary hickman-brown,ca217 ac,244-5016,6
>It's Sargon, not Ibis. The two heroes do bear a great deal of
>resemblence.
-Chris
michael kelly
arro...@jyusenkyou.cs.jhu.edu (Ken Arromdee) writes:
|> I'd like to see issues of anything.
|>
|> (How much does it cost to produce a comic book sized reprint compared to
|> what it costs to produce fiche? Would it be feasible for the fiche-publishing
|> company to put the same reprints on paper instead?)
As far as I can tell from my limited contact with MicroColor, they
get the rights to reproduce fiche directly from whomever holds them.
This fiche project was started for archival purposes, but MicroColor
is allowed to sell the individual fiche (with some amount going to
the holders of the copyrights, no doubt.)
Even though the fiche cost about $7 a piece, I doubt that between the
setup costs (equipment, paper, etc.), the rights problems, and the
limited nature of the market for most of these issues (as reprints)
that we would ever see a generally available reprint of Whiz Comics #7,
for example.
The fiche covers say "...private viewing only. No reproduction of any kind
is allowed..." so efforts such as printing them, scanning them onto disk,
and retouching/coloring and reprinting them are clearly out.
(This process is also cost-prohibitive. Between the equipment needed
and the time involved, it could never be much more than a weekend
venture for me.)
Assuming that enough funds could be anteed up, I'm sure DC would be willing
to entertain the notion of a small press run of some of the more obscure
hero adventures which it owns. (Something on the lines of the "Monster
Society of Evil" perhaps?) I have a feeling that this would be simply too
much for a few interested fans to handle.
(Remember when the "Wormy" reprints fell through? And this was a case
when all the original art and copyrights were already in hand!)
I'll probably end up printing a few of my favorite "Golden Arrow"
stories though, and keep bugging DC powers that be that these *deserve*
to be reprinted. ;)
Christopher Bird
> Hate to burst your bubble, but the only weakness of the Ibistick is
> that it cannot affect Black Magic(tm). For the record it doesn't appear
> that Black Magic(tm) has the same disadvantage.
> However, Ibis the Invincible lives up to his billing. He has the beautiful
> Princess Taia at his side (and she's no slouch in the brains department
> either) and Ibis frequently beseeches the gods of old to help him out.
> Somehow I don't think anything Sargon can conjure up is in the same league
> as Thoth or Osiris.
> Neither would stand a chance against the Wizard Shazam, of course. Let's
> face it, this guy had more 10 ton stone blocks dropped on his head than
> just about anybody else. (well, at least he orginated the trick). He
> also survived both the Crisis and Zero Hour without so much fanfare.
> Of course, Shazam would prefer to just hang out on the Rock of Eternity
> chiselling away, when he isn't hanging out with Lance O'Casey that is...
Of course, all this is immaterial, because we both know that if the
Golden Age Black Condor and Mr. Bones teamed up, they could wipe the
floor with Sargon and Ibis combined. :)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=Barney Must Die!!=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
"To his shame, this one is Susano-O-No-Mikoto, "His Brave Swift
Impetuous Male Augustness", son of Izanagi, "His Augustness the Male
who Invites." This one comes alone.
There is a discussion that might be held at some point,
concerning territory." ---"Season of Mists"
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-I Go Pogo!=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Abhiji...@transarc.com
mke...@ovid.helios.nd.edu (michael kelly) writes:
> Neither would stand a chance against the Wizard Shazam, of course. Let's
> face it, this guy had more 10 ton stone blocks dropped on his head than
> just about anybody else. (well, at least he orginated the trick). He
> also survived both the Crisis and Zero Hour without so much fanfare.
Shazam only managed to survive Crisis and Zero Hour, because in typical
cowardly mode, he sat them out. He had no role in ZH, and if he had a
role at all in Crisis, it was very minor. Furthermore, when almost all
of Earth's mystics faced the greatest threat of all in the form of the
dark thing from beyond, where was our man Shazam ? Doubtless sitting on
the Rock of Eternity and sipping wine. Feh.
Face it Mike, the only reason Shazam managed to survive this long is
that he has an uncanny ability to be elsewhere when danger strikes.
Tom Galloway
M Waid <72102...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>lock, stock, and barrel, meaning that the Marvels, Ibis, Golden
>Arrow, Minuteman, et al are now DC's free and clear. Hoo-hah.
Out of curiosity, any idea why DC hasn't made any use of them? In particular,
it'd seem that DC could've saved the licensing fee to Archie by using
the non-Marvel Fawcett characters as the basis for Impact.
"We've decided to hear what you think would be an appropriate punishment."
"What I think?"
"Yes."
"How about strapping me in front of the tv and forcing me to eat chocolate chip
cookies?" --Fox Trot
tyg t...@hq.ileaf.com
michael franklin sutton
<Abhiji...@transarc.com> wrote:
>Shazam only managed to survive Crisis and Zero Hour, because in typical
>cowardly mode, he sat them out. He had no role in ZH, and if he had a
>role at all in Crisis, it was very minor. Furthermore, when almost all
>of Earth's mystics faced the greatest threat of all in the form of the
>dark thing from beyond, where was our man Shazam ? Doubtless sitting on
>the Rock of Eternity and sipping wine. Feh.
>
>Face it Mike, the only reason Shazam managed to survive this long is
>that he has an uncanny ability to be elsewhere when danger strikes.
The only thing that you seem to have suggested is that while Shazam
may or may not be the most powerful wizard, he is certainly the
wisest. :)
Employ adolescents to get involved in the major slugfests. Maybe
you'll live to Shazam's ripe old age.
"Saint" Michael
Sa...@ucs.indiana.edu
Michael A. Chary
In a previous article, Abhiji...@transarc.com () says:
>Shazam only managed to survive Crisis and Zero Hour, because in typical
>cowardly mode, he sat them out. He had no role in ZH, and if he had a
>role at all in Crisis, it was very minor. Furthermore, when almost all
>of Earth's mystics faced the greatest threat of all in the form of the
>dark thing from beyond, where was our man Shazam ? Doubtless sitting on
>the Rock of Eternity and sipping wine. Feh.
Can you say "wisdom of Solomon?" I knew you could :)
>Face it Mike, the only reason Shazam managed to survive this long is
>that he has an uncanny ability to be elsewhere when danger strikes.
I would buy into this theory more, if he had bothered to get up *before*
the enormous block of granite, hanging by a thread, and a fraying thread at
that, had fallen on him. (Not that it seemed to have done any permanent
damage. :))
M Waid
Fawcett ones. First, the Archie deal was struck before the Fawcett
purchase. Second...and this is the thing I find most amazing about
the longevity of this topic...the Fawcett characters *blow*.
Sorry, but no matter how you slice it, the names Fly, Shield, Black
Hood and Jaguar are infinitely cooler than Golden Arrow, Bulletman,
Ibis the Invincible (=ghaah!=), Lance O'Casey and Minuteman. Me, I
could make a case for Mr. Scarlet maybe, or Bulletman IF he was a
Rocketeeresque period character, but that's about it. At one time,
one of the editorial teams at DC *was* developing a WHIZ COMICS
one-shot featuring just these luminaries (Commando Yank!) until I
and dozens of others beat them down by screaming that there weren't
enough 45-year-old buyers out there to make such an embarrasing
book even remotely profitable. Besides, doesn't DC have enough of
a reputation for constantly strip-mining the past rather than
launching *new* concepts? (*Please*--no E-mail responses.)
Anacharsis
|> Two reasons why we used Archie characters for Impact instead of
|> Fawcett ones. First, the Archie deal was struck before the Fawcett
|> purchase. Second...and this is the thing I find most amazing about
|> the longevity of this topic...the Fawcett characters *blow*.
OK, but why did DC buy them, then ?
|> Besides, doesn't DC have enough of
|> a reputation for constantly strip-mining the past rather than
|> launching *new* concepts? (*Please*--no E-mail responses.)
That's part of the charm of DC, I guess. DC has the longest fictional
history since classical mythology and Arthurian epics. They can't
decide to forget the Golden Age and all their rich setting just to
look cooler than Image. I am sure DC could have better and more
original concepts with ,say, Infinity,Inc than with Bloodbath X-over.
M Waid
To get the Marvel Family. Package deal.
And, yeah, maybe we could've done something niftier with--to use
your example--Infinity, Inc. than with Bloodpack, but if we don't
keep introducing some new doofy stuff to the DCU every once in a
while, then what are the creators of 2007 going to have available
to *revive*?
michael kelly
Abhiji...@transarc.com writes:
|> Face it Mike, the only reason Shazam managed to survive this long is
|> that he has an uncanny ability to be elsewhere when danger strikes.
And you think this is a bad thing? You've hit the nail on the head about
ol' graybeard. Remember when DC included "Private Lives" episodes in
some of their titles? I'd love to see the private life of Shazam, even
if he is just sipping wine on the rock of eternity.
michael kelly
M Waid <72102...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
|> Two reasons why we used Archie characters for Impact instead of
|> Fawcett ones. First, the Archie deal was struck before the Fawcett
|> purchase. Second...and this is the thing I find most amazing about
|> the longevity of this topic...the Fawcett characters *blow*.
|> Sorry, but no matter how you slice it, the names Fly, Shield, Black
|> Hood and Jaguar are infinitely cooler than Golden Arrow, Bulletman,
|> Ibis the Invincible (=ghaah!=), Lance O'Casey and Minuteman.
The Fly is a cool name? Who was his biggest enemy, the Penis?
Black Hood sounds racist without knowing any of the details.
Jaguar? Boring...besides, is that supposed to imply that she is
a "high maintennce" woman?
Now, how can you say Golden Arrow is a name that blows without
implying that "Green Arrow" is also a crappy name. Golden Arrow
wasn't even a Robin Hood rip-off! And he was a western hero to boot!
Bulletman should fit in nicely with the "big gunz" philosophy (if
that helmet was retooled, natch).
I personally don't find "Ibis the Invincible" to be any more
ridiculous than "John Constantine, Hellblazer" (What the hell is
that supposed to mean?)
And it isn't like Hourman is such a cool name that there is
no room for Minuteman. (Although who would be preferred as company
between the sheets?)
|> Besides, doesn't DC have enough of
|> a reputation for constantly strip-mining the past rather than
|> launching *new* concepts? (*Please*--no E-mail responses.)
DC has more of a reputation for being blind to the obvious biases
held by its editorial staff.
Icon Elmo
> this is the thing I find most amazing about
> the longevity of this topic...the Fawcett characters *blow*.
> Sorry, but no matter how you slice it, the names Fly, Shield, Black
> Hood and Jaguar are infinitely cooler than Golden Arrow, Bulletman,
> Ibis the Invincible (=ghaah!=), Lance O'Casey and Minuteman. Me, I
> could make a case for Mr. Scarlet maybe, or Bulletman IF he was a
> Rocketeeresque period character, but that's about it.
Yeah, but Mr. Scarlet's sidekick was *Pinky*, so he's dead right there.
> Besides, doesn't DC have enough of
> a reputation for constantly strip-mining the past rather than
> launching *new* concepts?
Strip-mining is *exactly* the right word, and the answer is yes.
But I don't particularly want new stories. I want reprints. There are
thirteen years's * three-four books a month worth of Captain Marvel
stories alone, not counting Junior and Mary's solos. And not counting
Mike Kelly's new love Golden Arrow. And not counting Bulletman and Ibis
and the rest. And I've only got access to a microscopic fraction of a
percent of those stories.
And that's not taking into account DC's own vast library of GA and SA
material. DC is sitting on this material like it'll disintegrate in
the light of day.
As far as I'm concerned, I don't need a pristine product, either. The
All-Star Archives are nice, but Great Comic Book Heroes/Monster Society
of Evil-type color xeroxes are cool, too, and they *have* to be cheaper.
(And Micro-Color's already done most of the photowork for a lot of the issues--
just run 'em off on newsprint in the cheapest color process you can
find, just like, by golly, they were first printed.)
--
Quibbles and nits! Quibbles and nits! I'm gonna pick me some quibbles and nits!
elmo (mor...@physics.rice.edu,mor...@fnal.fnal.gov)
Michael S. Schiffer
Well, the way things are going: Infinity, Inc. (As well as
the JSA, the JL of A...) Personally, I'd pay Prestige Format prices
for a series of Elseworlds set in the pre-Crisis DC universe if they
were written by someone decent.
Mike
--
Michael S. Schiffer, LHN, FCS "I decline utterly to be impartial
ms...@mcs.com as between the fire brigade and the fire."
as...@yfn.ysu.edu -- Winston Churchill, July 7, 1926
ms...@midway.uchicago.edu
Her Sassy Glenn
>Two reasons why we used Archie characters for Impact instead of
>Fawcett ones. First, the Archie deal was struck before the Fawcett
>purchase. Second...and this is the thing I find most amazing about
>the longevity of this topic...the Fawcett characters *blow*.
Well the First reason, sure. But the second, No Way. And they're both
infinitely inferior to the Quality stable. So was the National stable,
IMO. 'Nuff said. >B^)
>Sorry, but no matter how you slice it, the names Fly, Shield, Black
>Hood and Jaguar are infinitely cooler than Golden Arrow, Bulletman,
>Ibis the Invincible (=ghaah!=), Lance O'Casey and Minuteman. Me, I
>could make a case for Mr. Scarlet maybe, or Bulletman IF he was a
>Rocketeeresque period character, but that's about it.
I'm with Mike, I'd argue Golden Arrow is a *lot* more interesting than
any of the Pep guys. Give him to Truman or Macgregor, or get Yeates
on the art. It just ain't all that tough. >B^) The names are cooler
though, I have to give you that. For what it's worth. I'd say
content is a wee bit more important. :-) The !mpact titles that were
written well were the most interesting, no surprises there. Maybe all
they would have had to do to save these books would have been to have
them show up in the better-selling DC books here and there (I guess
that wasn't feasible). Too bad. As you say, water under the bridge.
It got us the killer Crucible mini, freedom to do radical things to
characters who weren't gonna be around any more anyway made for a
great story, IMO.
>. Besides, doesn't DC have enough of
>a reputation for constantly strip-mining the past rather than
>launching *new* concepts?
Well, I wouldn't say they do. The problem is the new concepts are so
unoriginal. Ultraverse, Milestone (less so), Imageverse, CGW,
Bloodpack -- they're all filled with all these clones of characters
already done. Not all of them, but certainly most of them. Dead dull
if you ask me. IMO, that's why the re-makes are so much more
interesting, the original concepts were more diverse in the first
place, at least the ones that survive. Maybe it's more of a challenge
to the writer too, I don't know. Re-makes can be dull too, just take
a look at Fatehunter. :-) I'm not a Marvel reader, but at least their
characters are mostly fairly original. It's the treatment that's the
problem (for me). DC's getting boring because in general they've been
homogenizing the characterization, "Image-izing" the art, and lowering
the age of the target audience. Not to mention doing a lot short-term
flash in the pan killing and maiming of characters -- not because
they've been strip-mining old concepts. It's a really tired and
over-represented genre in the first place, you can't keep cloning the
X-Men etc. and keep anyone over 12's attention. Your books, except
maybe JLA on the art problem, don't suffer from these problems and
that's a large part of why they're superior. Just my opinion of
course. :-)
Hey, is the Creeper flame taken yet? How about Deadman? >B^)
Pax ex machina,
Glenn
......................................................................
"We could discuss the gods."
"Excellent choice, though I argue with the use of the term 'discuss'"
"Well, I argue with the use of the term 'choice'"
"And I argue with the use of the term 'term'"
"Oh, no ... Sophists!"
--- The Sam and Bill Show, Epicurus the Sage
g-car...@uchicago.edu, if you must know
......................................................................
Nick Eden
> > >I just had a strange idea. What if Sargon the Sorcerer and Ibis the
> >Invincible decided to team up and form their own supergroup, All >
>Turbans All the Time.
> >
> >Charter members of AT-AT:
> >
> >Sargon the Sorcerer
> >Ibis the Invincible
> >Haji (from Johnny Quest)
> >Punjab (from Little Orphan Annie)
> >
> >Who else? > > I don't remember any ohters, but I am sure you'll find
them. You know
In the rather excellant Champions roleplaying game supplement, Kingdom of
Champions, as sourcebook for games set in the UK, there was a rather fun
character called Imperial Lion, a WWII era Sikh supersoldier, now
fighting rascist thugs in the UK.
I kpt meaning to give a copy of that book to the editors of Justice
League Europe. It had the best grasp on British superheroes I've come
across, being written by an Englishman, the most excellent Phil Masters.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
What would have happened of (a) Bouadicea had been the daughter of Edward
the Confessor? (b) Canute had suceeded in sitting on the waves?
Does it matter?
M Waid
I can't. Never intended to. Green Arrow *is* a dorky name.
Jaguar's a perfectly good name. Black Hood sounds racist only if
you've already made up your mind on this issue. Why are we
bothering to argue?
Michael A. Chary
Well, because you said that a bunch of characters that some of us happen to
like are lame. We are disagreeing with that. I don't see hpow Bulletman
is more lamne than Jaguar or Comet for that matter. I think Spy Smasher
would be a great concept. And I like that name.
michael kelly
M Waid <72102...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
|> >Now, how can you say Golden Arrow is a name that blows without
|> >implying that Green Arrow is also a crappy name?
|>
|> I can't. Never intended to. Green Arrow *is* a dorky name.
Ah. BTW I just checked, and it looks like Golden Arrow's introduction
actually preceeded Green Arrow's by at least six months. Of course
DC wasn't all that immune to other blatant steals around that
time: e.g. consider that Aquaman is Prince Namor minus the attitude
plus some clothes.
|> Why are we bothering to argue?
At first I couldn't tell if I was being trolled or not, but I decided to
reply since arguing about characters is a time-honored tradition among
comic fans, as in "The Hulk is stronger than the Thing since the madder
he gets the stronger he gets."
I also got to make the dumb "the Fly vs. the Penis" joke I wanted to. :)
I think it is obvious who was cooler back when they were introduced based
on the sales. Fawcett beat the others hands-down. Like Greg said, I'm
more interested in the availability of the Golden Age material, not
a new version of some of these characters.
(And yes, I'd rather read Alfred Bester's Green Lantern than the current
team's GL, but who wouldn't?)
michael kelly
mke...@ovid.helios.nd.edu (michael kelly) says:
|> I just had a strange idea. What if Sargon the Sorcerer and Ibis the
|> Invincible decided to team up and form their own supergroup, All >
|> Turbans All the Time.
|>
|> Charter members of AT-AT:
|>
|> Sargon the Sorcerer
|> Ibis the Invincible
|> Haji (from Johnny Quest)
|> Punjab (from Little Orphan Annie)
|>
|> Who else?
Following up to my own post:
Tal Chatali (Captain Marvel's "Curse of the Scorpion" serial)
Maybe it would be easier to team-up all the top hat wearing heroes?
(Zatana, Mandrake the Magician, Uncle Sam, Emperor Norton, Frosty the
Snowman, et al.)
jdmar...@miavx1.acs.muohio.edu
Whoops! I lost this thread, but I like how there is !mpact involvement...
;)
-Cheese
Abhiji...@transarc.com
> |> I just had a strange idea. What if Sargon the Sorcerer and Ibis the
> |> Invincible decided to team up and form their own supergroup, All >
> |> Turbans All the Time.
> |> Charter members of AT-AT:
> |> Sargon the Sorcerer
> |> Ibis the Invincible
> |> Haji (from Johnny Quest)
> |> Punjab (from Little Orphan Annie)
> Tal Chatali (Captain Marvel's "Curse of the Scorpion" serial)
Randu Singh from the Demon
The Arabian Knight (from Marvel)
> Maybe it would be easier to team-up all the top hat wearing heroes?
>
> (Zatana, Mandrake the Magician, Uncle Sam, Emperor Norton, Frosty
^^ (thats Zatanna ---- two n's)
>the Snowman, et al.)
Also (assuming you don't restrict yourself to just heroes)
The Wizard, Zatara, Penguin, The Gentleman Ghost,
The Mad Hatter I, The Mad Hatter II, Mysto (old DC
magician Detective), J Wilbur Wolfingham (old DC con
man, who looked and acted like W C Fields), The Shade,
SCOTTHOL
And Ibis doesn't wear a cape, as I realized for the first time when
re-reading "Crisis On Earth-S" this weekend. :-)
-
Scott Hollifield / sco...@cris.com
----------------------------------------
"Look at that! He's like, mocking everyone else."
-- overheard in front of Dali's _The Sardana of Witches_ at the
Metropolitan Museum of Art (SPY, 12/94)
SCOTTHOL
: Two reasons why we used Archie characters for Impact instead of
: Fawcett ones. First, the Archie deal was struck before the Fawcett
: purchase. Second...and this is the thing I find most amazing about
: the longevity of this topic...the Fawcett characters *blow*.
: Sorry, but no matter how you slice it, the names Fly, Shield, Black
: Hood and Jaguar are infinitely cooler than Golden Arrow, Bulletman,
: Ibis the Invincible (=ghaah!=), Lance O'Casey and Minuteman. Me, I
: could make a case for Mr. Scarlet maybe, or Bulletman IF he was a
: Rocketeeresque period character, but that's about it. At one time,
: one of the editorial teams at DC *was* developing a WHIZ COMICS
Don't forget Radar, the Radio Commando. :-)
I'm 25 years old, and I'd buy any kind of special based on the
Fawcett characters. Then again, I'm strange.
until I
: and dozens of others beat them down by screaming that there weren't
: enough 45-year-old buyers out there to make such an embarrasing
: book even remotely profitable. Besides, doesn't DC have enough of
: a reputation for constantly strip-mining the past rather than
: launching *new* concepts? (*Please*--no E-mail responses.)
In my opinion, Mark, the reason so many of us hang on to DC's efforts
to "strip-mine" the past (however much success may result) is because
DC's new concepts tend to be uniformly weak. But there's something
more important going on here--is it coincidence that the best written
superhero comics at DC (Flash, Starman, Damage, LSH) just happen to
have strong ties to the past? I think it's possible to blaze new
trails *while* keeping a sense of history, which is what writers like
you and James Robinson are doing.
Virgilio Dean B. Velasco Jr.
>
>Ah. BTW I just checked, and it looks like Golden Arrow's introduction
>actually preceeded Green Arrow's by at least six months. Of course
>DC wasn't all that immune to other blatant steals around that
>time: e.g. consider that Aquaman is Prince Namor minus the attitude
>plus some clothes.
I think it's dangerous to assume that these are blatant thefts. Perhaps
some of them are, but we should not immediately assume that they all
are. Back them, the competition between these two companies was not
nearly as fierce. Moreover, I think it's was just natural for both
companies to eventually develop aquatic heroes and archer heroes.
DC's Dr. Polaris preceded Magneto by a few months. Does this mean
that Marvel decided to rip off DC's idea of a villian with magnetic
powers? I'd hate to defend that idea in court.
Mind you, I'm not trying to exonerate either company. I just think
that we should be very careful when accusing them of plagiarism.
>I think it is obvious who was cooler back when they were introduced based
>on the sales. Fawcett beat the others hands-down.
Not to be argumentative, but I'd also hate to defend the idea that
greater popularity == better character writing. One look at prime time
TV would quickly refute that idea.
--
Virgilio "Dean" Velasco Jr, Department of Electrical Eng'g and Applied Physics
graduate student slave, roboticist-in-training and Q wannabe
Wise men still | I practice the safest form of sex | Why did the chicken
seek Christ. | known. It's called abstinence. | cross the Mobius strip?
Doug Shaw
In article <1995Jan...@fnalv.fnal.gov>, mor...@fnalv.fnal.gov (Icon Elmo) writes:
|>
|> Yeah, but Mr. Scarlet's sidekick was *Pinky*, so he's dead right there.
|>
"Gee, Brain, we really are going to infiltrate the comics world!"
"The name is MR. SCARLET, Pinky! Not "Brain." MR. SCARLET!"
--
Doug Shaw
michael kelly
v...@giskard.eeap.cwru.edu (Virgilio "Dean" B. Velasco Jr.) writes:
|> mke...@ovid.helios.nd.edu (michael kelly) writes:
|> >
|> >Ah. BTW I just checked, and it looks like Golden Arrow's introduction
|> >actually preceeded Green Arrow's by at least six months. Of course
|> >DC wasn't all that immune to other blatant steals around that
|> >time: e.g. consider that Aquaman is Prince Namor minus the attitude
|> >plus some clothes.
|>
|> I think it's dangerous to assume that these are blatant thefts. Perhaps
|> some of them are, but we should not immediately assume that they all
|> are. Back them, the competition between these two companies was not
|> nearly as fierce. Moreover, I think it's was just natural for both
|> companies to eventually develop aquatic heroes and archer heroes.
I suppose my comments are biased by DC's legal action against Fawcett
re: Captain Marvel/Superman. It's reasonable well documented (in
the Benton Golden Age book, for one) that Mort Weisinger was committing
highway robbery with other characters: Johnny Quick was introduced due
to the Flash's popularity, Green Arrow is claimed to be inspired by
Robin Hood (certainly the costume is) but I suspect he owes a little,
including his name, to Golden Arrow.
Keep in mind that the comic business was pretty unscrupulous back then
when it comes to intellectual properties. It wasn't all that much later
when Bill Gaines (who had no small connection to TPTB at DC) actually
*STOLE* entire Ray Bradbury stories! That guy had 'nads of steel however,
when Bradbury caught him, he simply bought RB off!
|> DC's Dr. Polaris preceded Magneto by a few months. Does this mean
|> that Marvel decided to rip off DC's idea of a villian with magnetic
|> powers? I'd hate to defend that idea in court.
Another strange but entirely coincidental appearance of two similar
characters is the Man-Thing/Swamp Thing first appearance.
Rob Postuma (Concordia University)
>reasons why we used Archie characters for Impact instead of
>Fawcett ones.
Fawcett characters *blow*.
>Sorry, but no matter how you slice it, the names Fly, Shield, Black
>Hood and Jaguar are infinitely cooler than Golden Arrow, Bulletman,
>Ibis the Invincible (=ghaah!=), Lance O'Casey and Minuteman
was the Black Hood book--- and that was the one that was furthest away
from the original concept of the character ( making it instead a half-descent
Grendel rip-off). I agree with you on Bulletman being re-tooled,but disagree
with you strongly on Ibis-- I sorta think that a half descent mini-series
or one-shot could be done with this character ( espec. with the "Stranger
in a Strange Land" motif that went with his initial appearance). This was
a man that was basically locked away from his first love and put in a tomb,
and when he was revived-- the first thing that he did was seek her out. I
think that this is a character that could survive a Vertigo spin, and could
be a book that appeals to women.I don't think that it would be a great series,
but as a mini-- it could do well .
> Besides, doesn't DC have enough of
>a reputation for constantly strip-mining the past rather than
>launching *new* concepts? (*Please*--no E-mail responses.)
or the fact that the book that you are working on is a concept that has been
stripped to the core (Wally being a clone of Barry being a clone of Jay being
a clone of Mercury being a...).My point is that there is a wealth of material
that DC has-- why not use it if someone has a new spin on it. It's said that
there are really only 6 basic stories out there, it's just how they are told
that matters. If anything-- I feel that DC has gone out of their way to ignore
their past, in fact they are embarrassed by it.Witness the fate of the JSA
series to see what I mean. Good stories are all that matter ( and sales of
course), if some "strip mining" works-- why not, I say.
Rob Postuma
M Waid
everything but coincidence; Creators Gerry Conway and Len Wein were
roommates at the time...
mary hickman-brown,ca217 ac,244-5016,6
>mary hickman-brown,ca217 ac,244-5016,6 (mhic...@dekalb.dc.peachnet.edu) wrote:
>: In a previous article, Sco...@voyager.cris.com (SCOTTHOL) says:
>:
>: >It's Sargon, not Ibis. The two heroes do bear a great deal of
>: >resemblence.
>:
>: True, but they do have different colored turbans :)
>
>And Ibis doesn't wear a cape, as I realized for the first time when
>re-reading "Crisis On Earth-S" this weekend. :-)
>
That may have been a change to ditinguish him from Sargon. The issue I have
of the fawcett Ibis he has a Cape (about waist length. Looks like a shorter
version of the Spectres cape (with the collar and all))
And I envey you having crisis on earth-S. Sigh :)
-Chris
Michael A. Chary
In a previous article, 72102...@CompuServe.COM (M Waid) says:
I thought Steve Gerber did Man-thing?
--
Congratulations to Michael Jack Schmidt, the Greatest Third Baseman ever to
stand at the hot corner. Cooperstown, class of 1995. Phils 1972-1989.
In memoriam, Peter Cook, Beyond the Fringe, "I like you Stanley, I don't
want to see you swatted." - Peter Cook, Bedazzled, 1937-1995
Douglas Eugene Rockstead
>
>>I just had a strange idea. What if Sargon the Sorcerer and Ibis the
>>Invincible decided to team up and form their own supergroup, All
>>Turbans All the Time.
>>
>>Charter members of AT-AT:
>>
>>Sargon the Sorcerer
>>Ibis the Invincible
>>Haji (from Johnny Quest)
>>Punjab (from Little Orphan Annie)
>>
What about that guy who fought with Puck from Alpha Flight back in issue
#30something. He's some demon who lived inside puck (no really I'm serious)
and caused him considerable pain (thus explaining Byrne's references to
Puck being no stranger to pain {however I will defend Byrne and say he had
nothing to do with the demon}) The demon was aslo the reason for him being
short. Oh and don't forget that genie Shazan from that cheesy Hanna-Barbera
cartoon from years ago.(you can see re-runs on the Cartoon Network)
Oh well enough silliness for now!
Douglas E. Rockstead,
na...@cs.utexas.edu
Dwight Williams
You're serious about this?
(Insert Blue Beetle laughtrack right here, folks. Nervous tension. Been up
since 5:15 am EST...)
--
Dwight Williams(ad...@freenet.carleton.ca)
1706 Caminiti Cres., Orleans, ON, Canada K4A 1M1
Tom Galloway
M Waid <72102...@CompuServe.COM> wrote:
>one of the editorial teams at DC *was* developing a WHIZ COMICS
>and dozens of others beat them down by screaming that there weren't
>enough 45-year-old buyers out there to make such an embarrasing
This from a man who commissioned a cover with purple, flames, monkeys,
motorcycles, question marks, dinosaurs, and crying?
"The comics probably come from Earth-Prime. It was devastated by a nuclear war
but I expect some of the comics survived. Collectors always make sure their
comics will survive." --Psycho-Pirate
tyg t...@hq.ileaf.com
Jim Murdoch
Sco...@voyager.cris.com (SCOTTHOL) wrote:
> M Waid (72102...@CompuServe.COM) wrote:
> until I
> : and dozens of others beat them down by screaming that there weren't
> : enough 45-year-old buyers out there to make such an embarrasing
> : book even remotely profitable. Besides, doesn't DC have enough of
> : a reputation for constantly strip-mining the past rather than
> : launching *new* concepts? (*Please*--no E-mail responses.)
>
> In my opinion, Mark, the reason so many of us hang on to DC's efforts
> to "strip-mine" the past (however much success may result) is because
> DC's new concepts tend to be uniformly weak. But there's something
> more important going on here--is it coincidence that the best written
> superhero comics at DC (Flash, Starman, Damage, LSH) just happen to
> have strong ties to the past? I think it's possible to blaze new
> trails *while* keeping a sense of history, which is what writers like
> you and James Robinson are doing.
Note that the exception which proves this rule is that waste of trees
going by the name "The Ray." The miniseries was decent, but the new
series is a vile and loathesome thing that should never have seen the
light of day.
--
Jim Comics?
sm...@kaiwan.com Of course I read comics.
Abhiji...@transarc.com
ma...@po.CWRU.Edu (Michael A. Chary) writes:
> In a previous article, 72102...@CompuServe.COM (M Waid) says:
>
> >That Man-Thing and Swamp Thing appeared the same month is
> >everything but coincidence; Creators Gerry Conway and Len Wein were
> >roommates at the time...
> >
> I thought Steve Gerber did Man-thing?
Yes, Steve Gerber wrote Man Thing (and very well too), but it was Gerry
Conway who created him.
Abhijit
G. B. Tiede
(Virgilio) writes:
>
>In article <3epmef$5...@news.nd.edu> mke...@ovid.helios.nd.edu (michael
>kelly) >writes:
>>
>>actually preceeded Green Arrow's by at least six months.
>>
>that we should be very careful when accusing them of plagiarism.
>
the then-current movie serial _The Green Archer_, starring Victor Jory.
G. B. Tiede
Keeper of the Challengers of the Unknown Flame
robert lee mckinney
You're forgetting Kid Psycho (from LSH:pre-ZH).
Later, Rob
Douglas Limmer
>mke...@ovid.helios.nd.edu (michael kelly) writes:
>> Maybe it would be easier to team-up all the top hat wearing heroes?
>>
>> (Zatana, Mandrake the Magician, Uncle Sam, Emperor Norton, Frosty
> ^^ (thats Zatanna ---- two n's)
>>the Snowman, et al.)
>
>Also (assuming you don't restrict yourself to just heroes)
> The Wizard, Zatara, Penguin, The Gentleman Ghost,
> The Mad Hatter I, The Mad Hatter II, Mysto (old DC
> magician Detective), J Wilbur Wolfingham (old DC con
> man, who looked and acted like W C Fields), The Shade,
Ringmaster (a Marvel one), the Dummy (I think)
Doug L.
--
AXIOM TESTING STATION
CAUTION - UNRESOLVED POSTULATES
- Terry Pratchett, _Pyramids_
Douglas Limmer, lim...@math.orst.edu