Sandman art on TKO
Christopher Vitek
> Is there anyone else out there who's disappointed with Gaiman's choice of
> Marc Hempel as the artist for The Kindly Ones? I really don't think it does
> justice to the story that's being told. It seems very flat and two dimensional.
> It reminds me of the art of that sequence in Convergence where Abel is
> telling his story of L'il Death and L'il Morpheus. That was a slightly goofy
> but pleasant story. Hempel's art takes the bite out of the story for me.
> The scene where Hob is standing at his wife's (girlfriend's, whatever she was)
> grave. I found his monologue very moving but coupling it to the accompaning
> art took away the intensity of the scene. That really disappointed me.
> The art lacks realism. It's only my opinion, but I wish someone else was
> doing the art.
>
> Jay
>
At first I didn't like the art, but either it has changed, or it has
grown on me. Now I like most of it quite a bit. It isa refreshing style change
from normal art, and I am eagerly waiting (artistically) for the next
issue...(or course, I am waiting for the writing as well).
Chris
The Dark Mage
>Is there anyone else out there who's disappointed with Gaiman's choice of
>Marc Hempel as the artist for The Kindly Ones?
Nope. I love it!
>The art lacks realism. It's only my opinion, but I wish someone else was
>doing the art.
Well, for the most part I prefer "realistic" art, but IMHO Hempel's art
works here. I don't know exactly what it is, but I like it. Same with
Dave McKean's stuff in Cages - the "rat headed" outlined people work
just as well asthe realistic painted people....
Dammit, Jay, I'm a hacker, not an art critic! *8-)
-DarkMage
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"When he became not I but I^2, Dodgson found he | net.name: DarkMage
had an ally, a Holy Guardian Angel, a Secret Self | IRC handle: Morpheus
as it were. This person, like Ped Xing or Anon of | SCA persona: Gabrielle
Ibid, lived in the interstices of the code rather | mka: Dvora Silberman
than being a signal as such, and he called himself | silb...@acf4.nyu.edu
Lewis..." -Wilson, _Schrodinger's Cat II | any questions...?
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To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion.
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Rich 'mcmxciibo' Holmes
>Opinions on this vary, of course. I like it more with each passing issue. The
>"flat" effect is, I feel, part and parcel of his more expressionistic (as opposed to
>realistic) style. His drawings are, I'd say, meant to create emotional responses
>rather than strictly illustrate the story. It's sort of like using shorthand --
>the images carry the narrative, and the artistic style conveys a lot of the
>feeling (boy, does _that_ sound artsy-fartsy!).
One of my favorite panels in #59 (and there were a *lot* of good
panels and pages) was one of the least photo-realistic: Carla's (did I
get the name right? I'm at work) "discussion" with Lyta.
--
- Rich "mcmxciibo" Holmes
Of course, it's perpetual April for a.r.k readers, isn't it?
- not Paul Tomblin
Adam M. Lipkin
Gregory, and Hempel can actually handle Dream and Destiny okay, but
he loses it when he tries to draw a real human being (i.e., Hob or
Lyta) both of these characters have been beautifully drawn (Heck,
am I the only one who thinks that one of McFarlane's best chracters
was Lyta), and Hempel makes them look lame. He just cannot draw
complex creatures, which means that all humans, as well as the more
interesting Endless (Delerium and Desire, i.e.) are uninteresting,
and the backgrounds lose the subtlety that they possessed with
almost every other artist on the series.
--
Adam Lipkin ali...@emoryu1.cc.emory.edu
_____________________________________________________________
"Good. Bad. I'm the guy with the gun."
--Ash, Army of Darkness
Katie Schwarz
>The scene where Hob is standing at his wife's (girlfriend's, whatever she was)
>grave. I found his monologue very moving but coupling it to the accompaning
>art took away the intensity of the scene. That really disappointed me.
Hmm, funny that you mention that scene; I remember the art there as
particularly striking me. His eyes, the tears coming out of them, the
way they're screwed up with grief, the chin stubble. Where the art wasn't
realistic it drew my attention to Hob's feelings, rather than
distracting. On the other hand, when Hempel draws Lyta and Dream it's
often abstract enough to be distracting. On the whole, I think Sandman
benefits from the strong distinct personality of this art; the art in
too many previous stories (like say the framing stories in Worlds' End)
was too generic and didn't project enough atmosphere.
(Another place where Hempel does good work is the Kindly Ones, especially
the maiden: drawn with a minimal number of swoopy lines, she looks as
slick as a corporate logo, suggesting heavy-duty power.)
-------------
This came from ka...@physics.berkeley.edu, in case it gets posted with
an incomplete address.
JAY
have Certain pictures in my mind of people and places in the story that Hempel
has distorted for me. Specifically Destiny's Garden. I loved the way Drin. drew
it in ish 21 and Hempel's bright rendition of it just didn't do anything for
me. I'm not saying Hempel isn't talented, I think he's very talented, But I
just don't get the same feeling out of the book.
DM, I'm not an art critic either. My ability in drawing would show you why.8)
Jay
The Dark Mage
>>>Marc Hempel as the artist for The Kindly Ones?
>> Nope. I love it!
>>>The art lacks realism. It's only my opinion, but I wish someone else was
>>>doing the art.
>> Well, for the most part I prefer "realistic" art, but IMHO Hempel's art
>> works here. I don't know exactly what it is, but I like it. Same with
>> Dave McKean's stuff in Cages - the "rat headed" outlined people work
>> just as well asthe realistic painted people....
>> Dammit, Jay, I'm a hacker, not an art critic! *8-)
>Alright, I see the comparison to Cages. (That was a dirty trick.) 8) I just
>have Certain pictures in my mind of people and places in the story that Hempel
>has distorted for me. Specifically Destiny's Garden. I loved the way Drin. drew
>it in ish 21 and Hempel's bright rendition of it just didn't do anything for
>me. I'm not saying Hempel isn't talented, I think he's very talented, But I
>just don't get the same feeling out of the book.
Heh... I think that sort of the point... I mean, the D's, Destiny's
garden, the Threshold... They're _not_ constant physical objects.
Whatever they are, they appear differently to different people; I think
having a different artist for every arc was a brilliant idea (dunno if
it was originally done on purpose...). As for people like Lyta and
places like NY (or wherever she is), that's a whole 'nother story. The
art worked for me; it didn't work for you, obviously. I agree with you
100% that you get a different feeling everytime there's a change of
artist (sometimes it's more _there_ than others), but I don't
neccessarilly think that's abad thing.
>DM, I'm not an art critic either. My ability in drawing would show you why.8)
Heh... And since when did artistic talent and the ability to be a
critic have _anything_ to do with each other? ;)
-DarkMage
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"They say humanity only gets one chance at the | net.name: DarkMage
carousel's golden ring. But the carousel goes | IRC handle: Morpheus
round and round, and round and round. And the | SCA persona: Gabrielle
golden ring is notgoing anywhere..." | mka: Dvora Silberman
-Phantom Stranger, _Books of Magic_ #4 | silb...@acf4.nyu.edu
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It's springtime, and you can almost hear the Mets suck...
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100 Years of Glennitude
>In article <2ns3ji$d...@cmcl2.NYU.EDU>, silb...@acf4.nyu.edu (The Dark Mage) writes:
>>
>>>Is there anyone else out there who's disappointed with Gaiman's choice of
>>>Marc Hempel as the artist for The Kindly Ones?
>>
>> Nope. I love it!
>>
>>>The art lacks realism. It's only my opinion, but I wish someone else was
>>>doing the art.
>>
>> Well, for the most part I prefer "realistic" art, but IMHO Hempel's art
>> works here. I don't know exactly what it is, but I like it. Same with
>> Dave McKean's stuff in Cages - the "rat headed" outlined people work
>> just as well asthe realistic painted people....
I can't be the only one that really digs the variety of art styles,
can I? IMO, it's part of what gives the various arcs and stories
their distinctive personalities; it dovetails with Neil's
experimentation with narrative. The best analogue that comes to my
mind is the first color Grendel series, Wagner's style adapting well
to the various art teams, as he was simultaneously trying on different
narrative techniques. It seems to be the other way around here, Neil
picks artists to suit the tone of what he's doing at the time (Alec
Stevens, Zulli and Vess being a few of the more obvious examples).
Isn't it particularly appropriate that, just as Morpheus appears in a
form appropriate to context, that the art style should do the same?
Non-stop Realism simply isn't malleable enough for the desired
versatility. :-) Hempel's wonderful angularity fits what's going on
perfectly, IMO. Of course, I'm not saying that every style should
therefore please everyone's taste, assuming the impossible for a
moment :-), just that a relation to "realism" is a particularly poor
canon by which to judge them, IMnotsoHO.
> I'm not saying Hempel isn't talented, I think he's very talented, But I
>just don't get the same feeling out of the book.
Exactly. :-)
Pax ex machina,
Glenn
......................................................................
"They kept him caged like an animal for over 70 years!"
"They destroyed his realm!"
"They called his older sister skinny!"
"They didn't count on him escaping!"
"Now they must deal with...
" THE SANDMAN!"
--- Lance "Cr2O3.2H2O" Smith
g-car...@uchicago.edu, if you must know
......................................................................
Andrew Moran
>I can't be the only one that really digs the variety of art styles,
>can I?
No, it's just that the rest of us are wary of posting "I agree" articles
because we've read the netiquette guide. Or maybe it's just you and me that
like it and since I tend to lurk you've been the lone voice.
FTR: I'm really enjoying Hempel.
Andy
"He's mad, totally mad. He's madder than Mad Jack McMad, winner of last year's
Mr. Madman competition." -- Edmund, a butler.
Martin Rebas
>I can't be the only one that really digs the variety of art styles,
>can I?
Hmmmm. I don't really know what you're talking about, but as I seem to get a
chance to disagree with something, I'll write this anyway :) .
If you're talking about the "art" in Sandman, I can only say that the BIG
reason why I don't read Sandman (have borrowed albums from friends
occasionally) is that the art is crap; acceptable at best. If they'd only, at
least for once, get hold of a decent artist and colorist, I might actually
_read_ it. As it is, I think I could do a lot better myself. Bah!
--
--- Martin Rebas, MartinSoft (c) *** d3r...@dtek.chalmers.se ***
"Look out for MartinSoft games - or you won't have time to avoid them"
DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed above do not belong to me. Someone else
must've written them. I haven't even seen them before! Now get lost!
The Dark Mage
>>I can't be the only one that really digs the variety of art styles,
>>can I?
>No, it's just that the rest of us are wary of posting "I agree" articles
>because we've read the netiquette guide. Or maybe it's just you and me that
>like it and since I tend to lurk you've been the lone voice.
Well, >>bleep<< netiquette... I _love_ Hempel's art on the book. I've
liked pretty much all the SandArtists, and I like the way there's a new
artist every arc. Just in case people didn't realize that already...
:)
>FTR: I'm really enjoying Hempel.
Yep, so'm I. I didn't like the way he was doing Lyta for the first
couple of stories, but the most recent one was _perfect_ (well, near
enough... ;) 'Course, I wouldn't complain if Dave McKean decided to do
the interior art for the rest of the series... :)
-DarkMage
>"He's mad, totally mad. He's madder than Mad Jack McMad, winner of last year's
> Mr. Madman competition." -- Edmund, a butler.
"Oi've got a cunning plan...."
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"To absent friends, old loves, | net.name: DarkMage
and the season of mists; | IRC handle: Morpheus
And may each of us always | SCA persona: Gabrielle
give the Devil his due..." | mka: Dvora Silberman
-Gaiman, _Season of Mists_ | silb...@acf4.nyu.edu
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Black holes are where god is dividing by zero.
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JAY PASCALE
> The Fortress of Glennitude writes:
>
>>I can't be the only one that really digs the variety of art styles,
>>can I?
>
> Hmmmm. I don't really know what you're talking about, but as I seem to get a
> chance to disagree with something, I'll write this anyway :) .
>
> If you're talking about the "art" in Sandman, I can only say that the BIG
> reason why I don't read Sandman (have borrowed albums from friends
> occasionally) is that the art is crap; acceptable at best. If they'd only, at
> least for once, get hold of a decent artist and colorist, I might actually
> _read_ it. As it is, I think I could do a lot better myself. Bah!
>
>
>
Exactly *which* comics did you borrow? *Who* was the artist? (You'd better
not say K. Jones. *8) ) The art in Sandman is different than a lot of the
stuff out there but I wouldn't refer to any of the art as crap, not even
Hempel.
In a market full of scores of comics drawn with steroid induced men and
large breasted women in small spandex suits, mostly drawn in rehashed poses
of earlier comics or poses so abnormal to the human anatomy that you can't
help but laugh, the artists of The Sandman have come through with their
knack for subtle imagery and detail and enhansed what is one
of the best written comics ever.
BTW, who would you have liked to see draw The Sandman?
Jay
Cathy Buksar
>>>I can't be the only one that really digs the variety of art styles,
>>>can I?
>>
>> If you're talking about the "art" in Sandman, I can only say that the BIG
>> reason why I don't read Sandman (have borrowed albums from friends
>> occasionally) is that the art is crap; acceptable at best. If they'd only, at
>>
>Exactly *which* comics did you borrow? *Who* was the artist? (You'd better
>not say K. Jones. *8) ) The art in Sandman is different than a lot of the
>stuff out there but I wouldn't refer to any of the art as crap, not even
>Hempel.
Not even Hempel? Oh well. He's the first person to pencil
Sandman whom I truly dislike in terms of style. I like his Morpheus, but
I think his sharp edges and lack of detail detract from the characters.
His Delirium?!? Oh, to have Jill Thompson back (and I know lots of Sanders
can't stand her either so go ahead and flame away)!
>
>In a market full of scores of comics drawn with steroid induced men and
>large breasted women in small spandex suits, mostly drawn in rehashed poses
>of earlier comics or poses so abnormal to the human anatomy that you can't
>help but laugh, the artists of The Sandman have come through with their
>knack for subtle imagery and detail and enhansed what is one
>of the best written comics ever.
Amen to this!! My husband is a big X-Fan in addition to several of the
Ultraverse titles. I am so tired of certain artists facination with grossly
exaggerated body parts, especially female ones. Any real woman with the
proportions of Catwoman would probably be a cripple with awful back problems.
I won't even get into the adolescents over at Image! Sandman has no use for
these conventions and still manages to hold the reader captivated with both
the writing and the art. No DDD cups here. Thank god there are others who
agree...
Cathy
Douglas Gale
pretty good. There have been a few questionable issues, but I read it
mostly for the stories....
Anyway......someone asked about who they'd like to see as do an issue and
my vote goes to the guy that did Epic's MOONSHADOW (J.J Bluth or something)
I love his style of art and think it work quite well in Sandman.....
dgale