How many illustators in here use Non-photo blue pencil for sketch/rough?
Mountain Dew Geist HS
Hi,
Just curious how many illustrators actually use those non
photo blue pencils. Personally I can't see any advantage to them.
They confound my thought process on the page by putting this big blue
barrier where I want to put something. I'm no pro, obviously, but I
don't see how pro's can deal with these things. Is it just me?
Oh well. . . it's just a whim question.
"..the PS can in any way compete with the N64 in 3D capability.."
-Mark David: Super Genius!-
I got flamed by an AOL user, and all I got was this lousy SIG!
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andrew (MELBOURNE)
DamienRoc_loves_me_not_you!Mountain Dew Geist HS (dr...@cleveland.freenet.edu) wrote:
: Just curious how many illustrators actually use those non
: photo blue pencils. Personally I can't see any advantage to them.
: They confound my thought process on the page by putting this big blue
: barrier where I want to put something. I'm no pro, obviously, but I
: don't see how pro's can deal with these things. Is it just me?
Every pro I know uses them. (That's know personally. It's very
possible, say, Mark Texiera doesn't.)
--Andrew
______________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Melbourne (610) 352-1687 280 Copley Road
-jack-of-trades- melb...@sas.upenn.edu Upper Darby, PA
available at-> http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~melbourn 19082
Tom127
In article <34c068a7...@nntp.stratos.net>,
dr311@"DamienRoc_loves_me_not_you!"cleveland.freenet.edu (Mountain Dew
Geist HS) wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Just curious how many illustrators actually use those non
>photo blue pencils. Personally I can't see any advantage to them.
>They confound my thought process on the page by putting this big blue
>barrier where I want to put something. I'm no pro, obviously, but I
>don't see how pro's can deal with these things. Is it just me?
I use them a lot. To me, it's helpful to have the construction lines in NP
Blue, because if done lightly, you don't have to worry about getting rid of
the lines you're not going to use. You just reenforce the lines you _are_
going to use with regular pencil. It's less confusing to me when it gets to
the stage of inking to have it that way.
The exception is when I'm painting. Due to the waxy nature of the NP Blue,
it will affect the way the paint adheres to the page. What I do then (if
it's going to be a comlex drawing) is get the drawing down on tracing paper
and then transfer it. (multiple erasues of pencil lines is death to a good
watercolor painting.)
--
---Tom Vincent
The gallery is now open.
http://www.capital.net/~tom127/index.html
"This person does not appear to be duplicating your email address and since
your name is not unique there is nothing we will do about this." Chris
Caputo President, Altopia Corporation, responding to my complaint that one
of his customers is forging my name to abusive posts in an attempt to cause
damage to my professional reputation.
Robin
In article <SPAMBLOCKtom127-ya023...@news.capital.net>,
SPAMBLO...@capital.net (Tom127) wrote:
>In article <34c068a7...@nntp.stratos.net>,
>dr311@"DamienRoc_loves_me_not_you!"cleveland.freenet.edu (Mountain Dew
>Geist HS) wrote:
>> Hi,
>> Just curious how many illustrators actually use those non
>>photo blue pencils. Personally I can't see any advantage to them.
>>They confound my thought process on the page by putting this big blue
>>barrier where I want to put something. I'm no pro, obviously, but I
>>don't see how pro's can deal with these things. Is it just me?
>I use them a lot. To me, it's helpful to have the construction lines in NP
>Blue, because if done lightly, you don't have to worry about getting rid of
>the lines you're not going to use. You just reenforce the lines you _are_
>going to use with regular pencil. It's less confusing to me when it gets to
>the stage of inking to have it that way.
I like working that way too, not all the time though. Lots of pencilers use
blue pencil to differing degrees. Alan Davis tells me that he tried using
blue pencil for construction then finishing with a regular lead. He didn't
like the results as he found it "too messy". I have some preliminary
sketches he's done in blue though. Liam Sharp drew entirely with blue
pencil for a while.
Robin.
Alberto J Lung
: Just curious how many illustrators actually use those non
: photo blue pencils. Personally I can't see any advantage to them.
: They confound my thought process on the page by putting this big blue
: barrier where I want to put something. I'm no pro, obviously, but I
: don't see how pro's can deal with these things. Is it just me?
: Oh well. . . it's just a whim question.
I played around with some non-photo blue pencils myself. They do make
it easy to lay down the frame or skeleton, but they also repel some types
of ink. I would imagine that they have limited application if one is
trying to do a lot of illustrations. I suspect that tracing with a light
box is probably a better alternative (albeit an expensive one).
Brandon Blatcher
In article <34c068a7...@nntp.stratos.net>,
dr311@"DamienRoc_loves_me_not_you!"cleveland.freenet.edu (Mountain Dew
Geist HS) wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Just curious how many illustrators actually use those non
>photo blue pencils. Personally I can't see any advantage to them.
>They confound my thought process on the page by putting this big blue
>barrier where I want to put something. I'm no pro, obviously, but I
>don't see how pro's can deal with these things. Is it just me?
In the forward to Dave Sim's High Society, he thanks his partner Gerhard
for bringing his original blue pencil drawing of the wraparound cover
vividly to life. So there's one.
-----------------------------------------------------
delete the spamblock to send email
The scenery is here. Wish you were beautiful.
Todd VerBeek, gwm
My pal dr311@"DamienRoc_loves_me_not_you!"cleveland.freenet.edu (Mountain
Dew Geist HS) said:
> Just curious how many illustrators actually use those non
>photo blue pencils. Personally I can't see any advantage to them.
>They confound my thought process on the page by putting this big blue
>barrier where I want to put something. I'm no pro, obviously, but I
>don't see how pro's can deal with these things. Is it just me?
(I'm not a pro, just a student.) I've never used one. I suppose they
could be useful for getting a general gesture down. to figure out where
everything goes, but I figure that's what your basic erasible graphite
pencil is good for.
Cheers, Todd
--
I'm an optimist: the glass is empty, but maybe =someday= it'll be half full.
David Tallan
Todd VerBeek, gwm <ver...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
: My pal dr311@"DamienRoc_loves_me_not_you!"cleveland.freenet.edu (Mountain
: Dew Geist HS) said:
: > Just curious how many illustrators actually use those non
: >photo blue pencils. Personally I can't see any advantage to them.
: >They confound my thought process on the page by putting this big blue
: >barrier where I want to put something. I'm no pro, obviously, but I
: >don't see how pro's can deal with these things. Is it just me?
: (I'm not a pro, just a student.) I've never used one. I suppose they
: could be useful for getting a general gesture down. to figure out where
: everything goes, but I figure that's what your basic erasible graphite
: pencil is good for.
Tara Jenkins (GALAXION) and Mark Oakley (THIEVES & KINGS) don't use
blue pencils either, preferring the erasible graphite pencils.
On the other hand, Jeff used blue pencils for DRESSED FOR SUCCESS and
Tim uses them for COPYBOOK TALES (and, presumably, the new Image book).
--
Respectfully,
David Tallan
dta...@interlog.com
Justin Savage
In article <34c068a7...@nntp.stratos.net>,Geist HS) wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Just curious how many illustrators actually use those non
>photo blue pencils. Personally I can't see any advantage to them.
>They confound my thought process on the page by putting this big blue
>barrier where I want to put something. I'm no pro, obviously, but I
>don't see how pro's can deal with these things. Is it just me?
I don't like them. I cut my own board because I can't stand that two ply
bristol stuff. When I'm done I rule the ten by fifteen area with a
mechanical pencil in non repro blue and toss a line across the top for
labelling. I use it solely to mark how much space I have for bleeds so I
don't accidentally drop a balloon partially off the page.
--
Justin Savage
savages...@sabresedge.com
http://www.sabresedge.com
Lea Hernandez
Todd VerBeek, gwm wrote:
>
> My pal dr311@"DamienRoc_loves_me_not_you!"cleveland.freenet.edu (Mountain
> Dew Geist HS) said:
> > Just curious how many illustrators actually use those non
> >photo blue pencils. Personally I can't see any advantage to them.
> >They confound my thought process on the page by putting this big blue
> >barrier where I want to put something. I'm no pro, obviously, but I
> >don't see how pro's can deal with these things. Is it just me?
It's not just you. I used to use them, now I don't. My working method
for CATHEDRAL CHILD is to do a lot of scribbling to lay out a page,
which I do in graphite at the same size as my originals, then I use a
light table. Sometimes my layouts are so loose the light table is only
showing me where thigns go, other times, my layouts are fairly tight.
Non-photo blue pencils don't erase at all well, and the show through
screen tones. This is almost a moot point with computer toning becoming
common in the US, but most manga is still hand-toned AND blue-penciled,
and keeping the blacks and screens without picking up the blue is a real
challenge.
I don't think blue is for chickens, I've just found it to not only be an
uneccessary step for me, but also one that takes immediacy out of my
work.
Lea
CATHEDRAL CHILD--Image Comics, March 1998
http://www.cris.com/~akiyama
Mountain Dew Geist HS
Lea Hernandez <aki...@concentric.net> wrote:
>It's not just you. I used to use them, now I don't. My working method
>for CATHEDRAL CHILD is to do a lot of scribbling to lay out a page,
>which I do in graphite at the same size as my originals, then I use a
>light table. Sometimes my layouts are so loose the light table is only
>showing me where thigns go, other times, my layouts are fairly tight.
>Non-photo blue pencils don't erase at all well, and the show through
>screen tones. This is almost a moot point with computer toning becoming
>common in the US, but most manga is still hand-toned AND blue-penciled,
>and keeping the blacks and screens without picking up the blue is a real
>challenge.
Speaking of light boards. . . I've been giving some thought to
purchasing one (and even more thought as to where I'd put it), maybe
build one (I have a friend who is into art supply construction among
other curious hobbies). What type of paper do you use and how
efficient is the light board? and what size would you recommend? I
get this image of sitting over it with sunglasses on redrawing the
illustration. I'd imagine if the pencils are tight enough or if
you're just that good you could instantly ink it to the page.
I have such a difficult time. I've heard so many arguments
for laying out ideas in rough drafts. My problem with a rough draft
is it usually either just sucks and stays in the sketchpad, or it's
really good but since it's in the sketchpad it remains there. What a
pain. . . I've got a really nice Gold Digger (Gina, Britanny, and
Brianna) pic that everyone I know seems to like, but is doomed to
obscurity, well as obscure as an all talk no action artist who
aspires to - yet refuses to put forth the effort to mail out samples
can possibly get, as a doodle in my sketchpad that I put there with
the intention of:
A: Getting it out of my head and on paper
B: Redrawing in a presentable fashion
Oh well. . . It's not like I get paid for this anyhow. :)
>I don't think blue is for chickens, I've just found it to not only be an
>uneccessary step for me, but also one that takes immediacy out of my
>work.
Blue has it's place I reckon. I'd rather have to learn how to
run with a third leg though.
>Lea
>CATHEDRAL CHILD--Image Comics, March 1998
>http://www.cris.com/~akiyama
"..the PS can in any way compete with the N64 in 3D capability.."
Henry Spencer
In article <69o3ci$6...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>,
W. Allen Montgomery <YREMOGT...@NO.SPAM.PLEASE.THANK.YOU> wrote:
>...Sure, it took some getting used to, like you noted, but here's what I
>learned: Being a chicken sure saves a lot of time erasing.
On the other hand, I recall Kelly Freas saying that he found that being
bold and going direct to the final medium (he was talking about ink, too,
not about black vs. blue pencil!) can also reduce the time spent erasing,
by teaching you to put things in the right place the first time.
As I (dimly) recall, he didn't wholeheartedly endorse it as a routine way
of working, but he did say it was a worthwhile thing to try now and then.
--
Being the last man on the Moon | Henry Spencer
is a very dubious honor. -- Gene Cernan | he...@zoo.toronto.edu
Steve Lieber
In article <34d2a6ec...@news.zippo.com>, ver...@bigfoot.com (Todd
VerBeek, gwm) wrote:
> (I'm not a pro, just a student.) I've never used one. I suppose they
> could be useful for getting a general gesture down. to figure out where
> everything goes, but I figure that's what your basic erasible graphite
> pencil is good for.
"Erasible" should probably be put in quotes in the above sentence. It takes
a lot of time and elbow grease to get all of the stray pencil marks up,
especially if you have a heavy hand or work with a soft pencil. And this
can often fade your black ink lines, which leads to scores of heart
attacks, suicides and homocides amomg artists annually. I'm more in control
of my drawing than I was five years ago, and don't need to scribble as long
to "find the form," but early on, I couldn't do without my non-repro blues.
Lieber
--
My web page: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/slieber/
My wife's: http://www.sils.umich.edu/~sryan/
Dwight Williams
Henry Spencer (he...@zoo.toronto.edu) writes:
> In article <69o3ci$6...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>,
> W. Allen Montgomery <YREMOGT...@NO.SPAM.PLEASE.THANK.YOU> wrote:
>>...Sure, it took some getting used to, like you noted, but here's what I
>>learned: Being a chicken sure saves a lot of time erasing.
>
> On the other hand, I recall Kelly Freas saying that he found that being
> bold and going direct to the final medium (he was talking about ink, too,
> not about black vs. blue pencil!) can also reduce the time spent erasing,
> by teaching you to put things in the right place the first time.
>
> As I (dimly) recall, he didn't wholeheartedly endorse it as a routine way
> of working, but he did say it was a worthwhile thing to try now and then.
Speaking as someone who makes a hobby of using Bic pens for rough
sketches, I'd certainly be tempted to agree. Although it seems when I
start playing with graphite pencil, I start getting a little too tight-lined
too early, IMHO. Too stiff in the figure work, IMHO...
--
Dwight Williams(ad...@freenet.carleton.ca) -- Orleans, Ontario, Canada
Toby Craig
I work exclusively with the NP blue pencils for my work before I ink it
with a brush and a bottle of ink. I have stacks of little notes and
sheets where I do my sketches with a ball point pen. The main reason I
started using the blue pencils was all my work usually goes through the
computer or a copy machine and I could get only the inks to pick up when
going black and white.
I've tried going "back" to using graphite and I can't even stomach
touching a no. 2 pencil any more. I've tried and it literally almost
makes me physically ill. The waxy nature of the blue pencils keeps me
from making the usual mess of the work when I get my hands all over it.
Since I watercolor so much it also lends to the way I work mentally,
working in layers, lighter ones first. Kinda floating the darks on a
ghost image.
Though to add watercolor over thick areas of the blue lines I usually
have to take my magic rum to them and just erase them anyway, but in
most cases it doesn't interfere too much.
I just started coloring some stuff for another artist that pencils in
graphite and just leaves them there, erasing that is a mess for me, but
it hasn't been so bad to go back with color on those either. He did
mess up and use a non-waterproof marker for the borders and after that
it didn't mater what he penciled in.
Anyway, I read about the blue pencils a couple of years ago and havn't
been able to go back. Consequently my stuff is at ithinkican.com
(http://www.ithinkican.com)
-Toby Craig (toby...@hotmail.com)
little engine studios
Lea Hernandez
Toby Craig wrote:
>
> I work exclusively with the NP blue pencils for my work before I ink it
> with a brush and a bottle of ink.
<snip>
> Since I watercolor so much it also lends to the way I work mentally,
> working in layers, lighter ones first. Kinda floating the darks on a
> ghost image.
>
> Though to add watercolor over thick areas of the blue lines I usually
> have to take my magic rum to them and just erase them anyway, but in
^^^
> most cases it doesn't interfere too much.
If I wasn't careful when I used my magic rum, it interfered a LOT.
flashcat
> : Dew Geist HS) said:
> : > Just curious how many illustrators actually use those non
> : >photo blue pencils. Personally I can't see any advantage to them.
Back when I was doing a lot of early art, I tried these once or
twice. In general, I found they interfered a bit with the ink applying
cleanly, and didn't clean up at all well off the board. As I was
learning a vital life lesson (that people would buy original comics
art), I decided that I'd have a better chance of making a decent profit
if I had cleaner work to offer. I'd seen some of Gil Kane's work at a
convention I helped coordinate in the late '70s, and one of the things
that'd bothered me about the pages he'd brought to the event with him
WAS that there were these blue, ghostly loops and blocks gumming up the
finished, inker elements of the art.
I ended up using a moderately hard lead and using white plastic
erasers for clean-up.
I later went on to ink a couple of series (KATMANDU and SHANDA THE
PANDA for about three years), as well as inking a number of freelance
jobs. I can't say I even encountered anyone who used anything in the way
of non-photo pencils for blocking out figures or panel layouts. I was
just as happy, considering my earlier, nasty experiences with 'em.
Mark Barnard
Studio FlashCat
Toby Craig
I blundered:.......
:
:
..........................
:
I work exclusively with the NP blue pencils for my work before I ink
it
with a brush and a bottle of ink.
working in layers, lighter ones first. Kinda floating the darks on a
ghost image.
Though to add watercolor over thick areas of the blue lines I usually
have to take my magic rum to them and just erase them anyway, but in
^^^
:
:
...........................................................
:
Afterwhich Lea said:
If I wasn't careful when I used my magic rum,
:
:
The format of
this message is a result
of magic
cheese and a bunch of candy.
I meant "magic
rub", one of those great
erasers. An
eraser (or any of my other
art supplies)
that is rendered useless if
I eat anything
with cheap tomato sauce
in it. Hrm,
or it could be the only one of
use since I
would have to erase those
jagged lines
and spacy looking characters.
-toby
(toby...@hotmail.com)
little engine
studios
jordan soldier valley
> Go to an art supply or photo supply store and check out the light
>boxes they have to offer. I'm sure they'll let you try one out. Light
boxes
>are pretty expensive ('though I don't for the foggiest know why),
They're expensive because they're sold in art stores. Ever see anything in
an art store that isn't over-priced? Worse than auto parts....
Built my own light box (used it yesterday)....
Once got a half-way decent price on a titanium-tipped Mars Straedler on a
close-out once....
>:)
-DGH-
See my d@mn comics!
http://www.netins.net/showcase/flexia
jordan soldier valley
> Chester Brown took this experiment one step further, in a thing he
>called "Free-Hand Comics." Not only was the drawing totally spontaneous,
but
>so was the page layout and even the story. The results were...
interesting.
>
>>As I (dimly) recall, he didn't wholeheartedly endorse it as a routine way
>>of working, but he did say it was a worthwhile thing to try now and then.
>
Spaz days?
-DGH-
Once of Sam's small press peers from the '80s....
http://www.netins.net/showcase/flexia
Steve Lieber
In article <69rcm5$5...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>,
YREMOGT...@NO.SPAM.PLEASE.THANK.YOU (W. Allen Montgomery) wrote:
> dr311@"DamienRoc_loves_me_not_you!"cleveland.freenet.edu (Mountain Dew
Geist HS) wrote:
> > Speaking of light boards. . . I've been giving some thought to
> >purchasing one (and even more thought as to where I'd put it), maybe
> >build one (I have a friend who is into art supply construction among
> >other curious hobbies). What type of paper do you use and how
> >efficient is the light board? and what size would you recommend? I
> >get this image of sitting over it with sunglasses on redrawing the
> >illustration.
>
> Go to an art supply or photo supply store and check out the light
> boxes they have to offer. I'm sure they'll let you try one out. Light boxes
> are pretty expensive ('though I don't for the foggiest know why), so you
might
> want to go the building route. Have a look at the construction - or have
your
> friend look at the construction - and then make a stop at the hardware store.
> It's just an open box with a light (usually flourescent) inside, and a piece
> of frosted plexiglass on top. Make it big enough and add some legs, it can
> double as a table.
W.'s advice is good. If your want something that'll take even -less-
effort, just get window that's still in it's frame from your basement or a
from a junk shop, put a lamp (with a frosted bulb) on the floor in front of
your board, shining up, turn out the lights and use the window as a lap
board. After 15 minutes, it might get hot, at which point you stop tracing
for a while and go back to working with your overhead light until things
cool. This was the standard light table for most of us at the Kubert school
and it worked fine with 2-ply bristol.
Leah Adezio
Before my husband bought me a portable light box a couple years ago (and
before I started my current day job, where I have a *huge* lit drawing
table that I use for my own purposes during lunch hour), I would take a
small desk lamp and stick it under the little 'shelf' that was part of
the support framework of our dining room table, which has a glass top.
Worked fine for me. :)
Leah
Brandon Blatcher
My current apartment gets really good, strong light up till about noon, so
I've just taped roughs to a window, taped whatever paper I'm using over
that and just worked off natural light. However it's winter now, and the
glass can get cold, so I went to hardware store and bought a 18x24 sheet of
plexiglass and florescent light. The plexiglass can be supported by books,
and stored away when not in use. Total cost was 30 dollars.
Brandon
Ted Slampyak
>>"Erasible" should probably be put in quotes in the above sentence. It takes
>>a lot of time and elbow grease to get all of the stray pencil marks up,
>>especially if you have a heavy hand or work with a soft pencil. And this
>>can often fade your black ink lines, which leads to scores of heart
>>attacks, suicides and homocides amomg artists annually. I'm more in control
>>of my drawing than I was five years ago, and don't need to scribble as long
>>to "find the form," but early on, I couldn't do without my non-repro blues.
You still need to use a pencil before putting down finished inks?
-Ted
Mountain Dew Geist HS
72674...@NOSPAM.compuserve.com (Steve Lieber) wrote:
>W.'s advice is good. If your want something that'll take even -less-
>effort, just get window that's still in it's frame from your basement or a
>from a junk shop, put a lamp (with a frosted bulb) on the floor in front of
>your board, shining up, turn out the lights and use the window as a lap
>board. After 15 minutes, it might get hot, at which point you stop tracing
>for a while and go back to working with your overhead light until things
>cool. This was the standard light table for most of us at the Kubert school
>and it worked fine with 2-ply bristol.
I can't believe I keep changing this topic header. But it's
keeping it clear. Sorry for the obnoxious size. Anyhow. .
I've been giving some serious thought to further education.
And I've often had the Kubert school pop into mind. Would you
reccomend the school? It may be a pipe dream but I'd like to at some
point illustrate a comic, if for no other reason than to make good on
all the good faith people have placed in my ability.
What other courses of study are you required to take while
there? Etc.
Sorry if that's kind of vague.
Also, why does your name ring a bell?
Todd VerBeek, gwm
>72674...@NOSPAM.compuserve.com (Steve Lieber) wrote:
>>....This was the standard light table for most of us at the Kubert school
>>and it worked fine with 2-ply bristol.
My pal dr311@"DamienRoc_loves_me_not_you!"cleveland.freenet.edu (Mountain
Dew Geist HS) said:
> I've been giving some serious thought to further education.
>And I've often had the Kubert school pop into mind. Would you
>reccomend the school? It may be a pipe dream but I'd like to at some
>point illustrate a comic, if for no other reason than to make good on
>all the good faith people have placed in my ability.
(I know you were asking someone with real artistic credentials, but since
you posted it in a public place, I'll be presumptuous and answer it
myself. {smile})
I'm sure the Kubert School is great, but depending on how much education
you already have (i.e. if you haven't already been to one of the
following), your friendly neighbourhood art school or the art dept at a
local college or university can be a lot of help. Comics illustrating
involves some issues that might not be covered in most illustration and
design courses, but a lot of the important stuff (figure drawing,
perspective, eye flow, use of light and dark, line techniques, focal
points, etc.) should be covered in any good art curriculum.
> Also, why does your name ring a bell?
Among other things, Steve penciled a fairly long run of the recent
/Hawkman/ series.
Brett George
I use light tables extensively. I've used the windows and natural light
also. But I will NEVER use non-photo blue on an original. Despite all
claims to the otherwise, most reproductive equipment these days WILL pick
up on non-photo pens. It only takes one ruined illustration to learn this
one!
And yes some of are going to come back with the response that some
equipment can be adjusted to filter out the blue. This is true. It's also
high-end equipment and a service bureau will charge extra for the sevice.
My rule of thumb is to provide artwork as clean as possible to begin with.
Try to eliminate as many problems ahead of time that you can or they'll
come back to haunt you.
brett
--
Brett George/Banzai Productions/Graphic Design & Illustration
5020 N. Alameda Blvd. Spokane WA 99205 USA
br...@ior.com
Mountain Dew Geist HS
ver...@bigfoot.com (Todd VerBeek, gwm) wrote:
>(I know you were asking someone with real artistic credentials, but since
>you posted it in a public place, I'll be presumptuous and answer it
>myself. {smile})
>
>I'm sure the Kubert School is great, but depending on how much education
>you already have (i.e. if you haven't already been to one of the
>following), your friendly neighbourhood art school or the art dept at a
>local college or university can be a lot of help. Comics illustrating
>involves some issues that might not be covered in most illustration and
>design courses, but a lot of the important stuff (figure drawing,
>perspective, eye flow, use of light and dark, line techniques, focal
>points, etc.) should be covered in any good art curriculum.
I focused on my artistic abilities all through grade and high
school. Some of my teachers loved me. Some hated me. Mostly because
at the time I was young, arrogant, and, totally ignorant to the
fact that although I wasn't allowed to draw Spiderman in art class my
teachers, bless their souls, were teaching me something more
important than cross hatching on a mis-shaped head. They were
teaching me the "meat and potato's" of art. Drawing what you see,
perspective, light sourcing, and, all that really great stuff that,
when I look back on it I should have really paid attention to. I
received my fair share of "artistic achievement" awards in school
local and state.
Upon graduating from high school I took it upon myself to
unlearn what I wasted my time locking my mind into. I've come upon
the appreciation of art. I know it sounds really hokey. Slowly but
surely I've managed to reshape that mindset into something suitable
for serious illustration. Well as serious as comic illustration could
be considered.
My rational assessment of my abilities is I'm "above average"
in the talent category, I don't want to glorify my abilities in any
public forum. I'm aware of all the important techniques used in
comics illustration. The problem is most self taught illustrators
that aspire to work in comics totally overlook the importance of
sequential art and story telling with pictures and spend too much time
drawing useless pin-ups. That's what I fear. I wouldn't label myself
a "pin-up guy", heaven forbid. Although I have extreme difficulty
getting what's in the noggin in sequential form on to the page.
Envision it. Doodle it. Choke on it when you try to illustrate it.
Practice! Practice! Practice!
I know that's the golden rule, but I suspect there's a formal
or scientific manner of approaching sequential art illustration that I
lack. That is why I feel I need higher education, not so much as a
talent less schmoe with aspirations of fame and fortune, but as a
fairly-talented individual who needs that "mental artistic enema" to
get the wheels of my machine rolling smoothly. :)
>> Also, why does your name ring a bell?
>
>Among other things, Steve penciled a fairly long run of the recent
>/Hawkman/ series.
D'oh!!!
>Cheers, Todd
Mike Suchcicki
Steve Lieber wrote:
>
W.'s advice is good. If your want something that'll take even -less-
> effort, just get window that's still in it's frame from your basement or a
> from a junk shop, put a lamp (with a frosted bulb) on the floor in front of
> your board, shining up, turn out the lights and use the window as a lap
> board. After 15 minutes, it might get hot, at which point you stop tracing
> for a while and go back to working with your overhead light until things
> and it worked fine with 2-ply bristol.
>
> My web page: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/slieber/
> My wife's: http://www.sils.umich.edu/~sryan/
I use a rather effective light board that I built into my table-top
drawing board. (The drawing board I use is the table top from the
original drawing table bought by my parents when I was a kid. I removed
the table top and installed short table legs on one end so that it sits
at a slant on a table top.)
Using a drill and a jigsaw, I cut a rectangular opening in the table,
roughly 18 by 12 inches. Then I went to a local plexiglas distributor
and purchased a one-eighth-inch-thick sheet of frosted plexiglas cut to
the exact size of my board. I simply rested this on top of the board
(The pencil rest keeps it in place). Then I purchased an inexpensive
fluorescent fixture (the ones designed for under-cabinet use). I simply
rest the fixture (light side up of course :) ) directly on the table top
under the opening in the drawing board. I can easily reach under and
turn on the light when needed. The light is bright enough that I can
trace through a sheet of bristol, yet not so bright as to produce
irritating glare.
--
Mike Suchcicki
Pfunn & Gaymes Studio
Have some "Fun and Games with Pfunn & Gaymes":
http://www.gulfsurf.infi.net/~pfunn
email: pf...@gulfsurf.infi.net
US mail: P.O. Box 1571, Pensacola, FL 32597
psychic mail: think your message REAL hard
Steve Lieber
In article <34cd297b...@nntp.stratos.net>,
> I know that's the golden rule, but I suspect there's a formal
> or scientific manner of approaching sequential art illustration that I
> lack. That is why I feel I need higher education, not so much as a
> talent less schmoe with aspirations of fame and fortune, but as a
> fairly-talented individual who needs that "mental artistic enema" to
> get the wheels of my machine rolling smoothly. :)
I can't really give an accurate evaluation of what the Kubert school is
like now. An art school is as good as it's teachers and I don't know who
is teaching there now. I can tell you that I learned a lot while I was
there. I entered JKS thinking I was an expressionist because I drew
sloppily, and came out an employable professional with my own ideas about
how pictures work.
The schedule at the time was nothing but drawing and commercial art, and
no choice in classes. If you were in comics/graphics you were assigned
one schedule, if you were in animation you were given the other. Ten
classes a week. Each class three hours, and each class gave three hours
of homework. There wasn't really anytime available to have a life. Maybe
a quarter of our 1st year class actually graduated.
If you live near northern NJ, or can get there cheaply, the best thing
you could do would be to visit the school and talk to the students who
are there now. (Set your tour appointment around lunchtime and catch them
then. There was a lunch wagon that stopped out front and a vicious little
diner across the street, both of which will be swarming with Kubies.
You'll have time to ask real questions.) They'll be your best guide to
whether or not the place is right for you.
Lieber
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
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Dan Berger
Mountain Dew Geist HS wrote:
> Speaking of light boards. . . I've been giving some thought to
> purchasing one (and even more thought as to where I'd put it), maybe
> build one (I have a friend who is into art supply construction among
> other curious hobbies). What type of paper do you use and how
> efficient is the light board? and what size would you recommend? I
> get this image of sitting over it with sunglasses on redrawing the
> illustration. I'd imagine if the pencils are tight enough or if
> you're just that good you could instantly ink it to the page.
I just started using a light box around August of '97 or so, and I
cannot say how much easier it's made things for me (well, I could, but
it would take up alotta space). I highly recommend them!
The one that I have is really expensive (about $200) but well worth the
price IMHO. It's made by Stacor, a New Jersey company. Glass size is
roughly 18" X 20", the box itself just a few inches wider on each side.
I got it from a mail order catalog, but don't remember which one (I get
too many of the accursed things these days). The box fits quite nicely
on my small wood drawing table, altho it doesn't leave much room for
anything else... however, an entire sheet of comic paper fits on the
glass, so that's a small price to pay. I keep my supplies on a filing
cabinet right next to the table, so things are comfy.
> I have such a difficult time. I've heard so many arguments
> for laying out ideas in rough drafts. My problem with a rough draft
> is it usually either just sucks and stays in the sketchpad, or it's
> really good but since it's in the sketchpad it remains there. What a
> pain. . . I've got a really nice Gold Digger (Gina, Britanny, and
> Brianna) pic that everyone I know seems to like, but is doomed to
> obscurity, well as obscure as an all talk no action artist who
> aspires to - yet refuses to put forth the effort to mail out samples
> can possibly get, as a doodle in my sketchpad that I put there with
> the intention of:
>
> A: Getting it out of my head and on paper
> B: Redrawing in a presentable fashion
Here's my "game plan": I layout/rough-in my comic book in a little black
covered sketchbook, 2 pages per page at a size of 4" X 6 1/8". Sometimes
I go back into these roughs with ink to clarify things. After that, I
take my black book to a copier, and enlarge all of the roughs 129%. Then
I trim these down to the edges and return to the copier, enlarging these
191%... which makes the little bastards fit perfectly on the 10" X 15"
image area that's the standard size for a comic page. White tape the
copies to some comic paper, and then throw them onto the lightbox and
I've got my page laid out and rough pencilled before pencil touches
"final" paper. It's a really great system for me (which I ripped off
from a studio buddy =) I used to do the little roughs and then try to
transcribe them full size, but was always disappointed that my
re-sizing/drawing of the roughs often lost the gestural quality of the
little roughs. This solves that trouble for me. You might try the same
thing for your drawing... I think you'll be pleased with the results. =)
I realize that a $200 lightbox is a bit extreme... you can build one on
your own. Just make a box, make a lid out of plexiglass and stick 2
small flourescent light fixtures into it (don't glue the plexi down or
you'll never be able to change bulbs ;). It'll take some effort, but
you'll save 200 clams. This way you can continue using your sketchbook
for what it's for, and when ya do something in it that you want to make
into a finsihed piece, just throw it on a copier and then onto your
lightbox you're off to the races!
Cheers!
Dan
Todd VerBeek, gwm
My pal dr311@"DamienRoc_loves_me_not_you!"cleveland.freenet.edu (Mountain
Dew Geist HS) said:
> Practice! Practice! Practice!
>or scientific manner of approaching sequential art illustration that I
>lack. That is why I feel I need higher education, not so much as a
>talent less schmoe with aspirations of fame and fortune, but as a
>fairly-talented individual who needs that "mental artistic enema" to
>get the wheels of my machine rolling smoothly. :)
I think that's the sort of thing you could get in a college-level art
curriculum (depending on the school and instructors, of course). Since I
started studying art and design formally (most of my previous experience
was acquired lying on my bedroom floor or in 6th-hour "Art class" with 32
other students - at least half of whom didn't care to be there), I've been
surprised how much of what my instructors talk about would have an
application in comics art.
For example, a "real" artist controls (to some extent) how a person's eye
travels from one part of a composition to another; a comics artist does
much the same thing. So take a cue from Kirby (and those who followed)
and treat the whole page (or two-page spread) as a composition, using a
panel layout that leads the reader's eye through it effortlessly. Avoid
having characters near the edge of the page looking =off= the edge of it.
Put the most detail/color/interesting shapes where you want the reader to
spend the most time. Leave some empty space. And so on.
Getting back to the original point, I don't want to discourage anyone
interested in doing art for comics from going to a specialised school like
Kubert's. But a "plain old art school" can teach most people a lot, and
has the side benefit of helping develop skills that open =other= doors as
well.
Mountain Dew Geist HS
ver...@bigfoot.com (Todd VerBeek, gwm) wrote:
>Getting back to the original point, I don't want to discourage anyone
>interested in doing art for comics from going to a specialised school like
>Kubert's. But a "plain old art school" can teach most people a lot, and
>has the side benefit of helping develop skills that open =other= doors as
>well.
>
>Cheers, Todd
Thanks. That's basically the answer I was looking for. I
really don't fancy the idea of having to move to another state and
find employment, shelter, and, all that other fun stuff. :)
J Edkin
Mark David wrote:
>ver...@bigfoot.com (Todd VerBeek, gwm) wrote:
>
>>Getting back to the original point, I don't want to discourage anyone
>>interested in doing art for comics from going to a specialised school like
>>Kubert's. But a "plain old art school" can teach most people a lot, and
>>has the side benefit of helping develop skills that open =other= doors as
>>well.
>>
>>Cheers, Todd
>
> Thanks. That's basically the answer I was looking for. I
>really don't fancy the idea of having to move to another state and
>find employment, shelter, and, all that other fun stuff. :)
>
>
As an instructor at the Joe Kubert School of Cartoon and Graphic Art, Inc., I'd
just like to state for the record that the school, while it certainly does have
an emphasis on sequential art (or animation, depending on which program you
choose), does not concentrate on one area of art solely. Beyond comics and
animation, we also teach figure drawing, advertising art, business practices,
and other classes that prepare our students to become a working graphic artist.
Regards,
Joe Edkin
co-writer of Quicksilver and instructor at the Joe Kubert School
Chris Juricich
I see that you're an instructor at the school.
Just curious...with the comics industry in such a state and so many comics
artists out of work, I wonder how enrollment is at JKCS? Granted you
provide instruction across the board for many different areas of career,
but the emphasis DOES seem to be mostly in comics, yes?
Just curious...
When I was about 38 (7 years ago!) I considered your school, but as my son
had just been born and my daughter was fresh into her OWN expensive art
school (doing well, thank you), I had to forego my plans. Besides, I
didn't want to be far away from my infant son...oh, well.
I digressed.
--
Chris Juricich
Berzerkeley, CA
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
Chris Juricich (juri...@sirius.com) wrote:
: I see that you're an instructor at the school.
Um, Chris, who are you talking to? :)
- Elayne
--
"I'm now going to smear clue musk on you and stand you in a field of horny
clues in the middle of clue mating season. I think it's the only way you
could ever possibly *get* A Clue."
- Leah Adezio