John Holbrook's self confessed bias
Rich Johnston
Gaiman/Sandman/Vertigo bias.
As a result, he is forbidden from reading any of the following books:
Spawn 9 and Angela, because Gaiman wrote them.
Spawn 14-15, because it drew on Gaiman inspired stuff.
Maxx, because Sam Keith drew the first issues of Sandman
Any work by Brandon Peterson, Joe Quesada, Simon Bisley and Todd
McFarlane because they've all done pinups in Sandman or Death.
Spawn 16-19 because Grant Morrison does most of his current work
for DC.
Any work by DeMatteis, because of course, he has had work
published by Vertigo. Hope he's not reading X-Factor or Spider-man.
Upcoming Stormwatch, a number of Vertigo writers are doing one-offs.
Ghost Rider 2099 and Generation X, both Chris Bachalo and Mark
Buckingham do substantial work for Vertigo.
And of course, if he has a anti-Sandman/Gaiman/Vertigo bias, he must
also be against good stories, well written tight plots, comprehensive
story telling, crisp and relevant dialogue and anything that attempts
to get outside of the standard superhero cliche.
Of course, he's reading Image comics isn't he. Specifically, work from
Homage studios.
Now anyone got any ideas as to what the lump of clay in Maxx refers
to. I'm going to have to do some serious back issue reading...
..................................
Rich Johnston- r.j.jo...@ncl.ac.uk
Creator of Dirtbag- should be out in August.
"Talk me some road!"- Chris Morris, The Day Today.
Psycho Shawn Petren
|> John Holbrook has confessed to having an anti
|> Gaiman/Sandman/Vertigo bias.
Psycho Shawn Petren has confessed to having an anti-Vertigo *reader*
bias, and the pompous tone of R.J.'s post explains why. Actually, I'm
not against all readers, just ones who use it as an excuse to look
at the rest of the comic-reading world through their nostrils.
Anyone want me to repost the Flopsy story? This time R.J. can be
the "Boy from Vertigo".
|> As a result, he is forbidden from reading any of the following books:
[list of non-Vertigo comics w/ Vertigo talent deleted]
|> ..................................
|> Rich Johnston- r.j.jo...@ncl.ac.uk
|> Creator of Dirtbag- should be out in August.
|> "Talk me some road!"- Chris Morris, The Day Today.
Why does the fact that you created a character called Dirtbag not
surprise me any more?
--
Psycho Shawn Petren, "The Boy from Image"
----------------------------------------------
Bah weep grah nah weep ni ni bon.
"Coronation, Starscream? This is bad comedy."
"Megatron? Is that you?"
"Here's a hint! ZAP!!!!"
John Holbrook (PAD)
>John Holbrook has confessed to having an anti
>Gaiman/Sandman/Vertigo bias.
>
>As a result, he is forbidden from reading any of the following books:
>
>Spawn 9 and Angela, because Gaiman wrote them.
Read it, own it, and actually liked it..my bias against Gaiman is
more because he writes in a genre that I don't care for..however, he did
write a heck of a decent "superheroish" story..
>Spawn 14-15, because it drew on Gaiman inspired stuff.
A stupid reason why to be "forbidden" from reading it, but I have
and own this issues nonetheless..
>Maxx, because Sam Keith drew the first issues of Sandman
I've read the Maxx too..but not beyong Darker Image and Maxx
#1..It was too weird..didn't much care for the art either..
>Any work by Brandon Peterson, Joe Quesada, Simon Bisley and Todd
>McFarlane because they've all done pinups in Sandman or Death.
How moronic? I believe it was you who admitted to having an
X-Men bias..well, your not allowed to read anything Chris Bachelo (sp)
has ever done because he did an issue of X-Men Unlimited and is doing
Generation X, so there!
>Spawn 16-19 because Grant Morrison does most of his current work
>for DC.
Again, put him in genre I like and maybe I'll like what he
writes..though I was none too impressed by the Spawn issues..
>Any work by DeMatteis, because of course, he has had work
>published by Vertigo. Hope he's not reading X-Factor or Spider-man.
Same goes for your X-Men bias (if I'm not mistaken)..I guess by
this example, you can't read DeMatteis either
>And of course, if he has a anti-Sandman/Gaiman/Vertigo bias, he must
>also be against good stories, well written tight plots, comprehensive
>story telling, crisp and relevant dialogue and anything that attempts
>to get outside of the standard superhero cliche.
I've read enough Vertigo crap to know that I simply don't care
for it..its to eclectic and inane for my taste. Children's Crusade #1 is
a good example..I found it to be insuferably boring..one of the worst
comics I've ever read...So I don't like alternative crap? Nothing wrong
with that..if you like it, more power to you.
>
>Of course, he's reading Image comics isn't he. Specifically, work from
>Homage studios.
Well Mr. Johnson, the above is why you are such an ass. You
would cast dispersions on me simply because I read material from Image.
You would criticise me simply because of my taste in comics. How
absurd! Yes, I have a bias against Vertigo, alternative crap..that
doesn't mean I think any less of someone who does enjoy it! Simply a
difference in taste. If you, in your little world, think you are
something of a better person than I because you enjoy Vertigo, and stay
clear of Image, then I whole heartedly reccommend you seek counseling..
John
John Holbrook (PAD)
>In article <MAILQUEUE-101.940501160344.384@TOWN2>, R.J.Jo...@newcastle.ac.uk (Rich Johnston) writes:
>|> John Holbrook has confessed to having an anti
>|> Gaiman/Sandman/Vertigo bias.
>
> Psycho Shawn Petren has confessed to having an anti-Vertigo *reader*
> bias, and the pompous tone of R.J.'s post explains why. Actually, I'm
> not against all readers, just ones who use it as an excuse to look
> at the rest of the comic-reading world through their nostrils.
Amen brother. By and large, the Vertigo readership proves itself
to be the most sanctimonious, and assinine fans in comics..Mr. Johnson is
a shining example of said readership.
BTW, do repost your "boy from Vertigo" story..I've never seen it before..
Best,
John Holbrook
Mean Mister Mustard
John Holbrook (PAD) <holb...@luna.ec.usf.edu.> wrote:
>In article <2q0lqf$2...@gopher.cs.uofs.edu> jm...@finch.cs.uofs.edu (Psycho Shawn Petren) writes:
Here's one way to criticize snobby posts:
>>
>> Psycho Shawn Petren has confessed to having an anti-Vertigo *reader*
>> bias, and the pompous tone of R.J.'s post explains why. Actually, I'm
>> not against all readers, just ones who use it as an excuse to look
>> at the rest of the comic-reading world through their nostrils.
>
And here, sadly, is another:
>
> Amen brother. By and large, the Vertigo readership proves itself
>to be the most sanctimonious, and assinine fans in comics..Mr. Johnson is
>a shining example of said readership.
Look, you're obviously p.o.'d about your fave comics company being slammed,
so some of your postings are excusable -- constantly referring to all Vertigo
stuff, etc., as "alternative crap," for example, then saying, "oh, but it's
okay for *you guys* to like it." Sounds obnoxious as hell, but we'll chalk
it up to a short temper and a reaction to people referring to "Image crap."
But that last paragraph is too much. That simple, too-easily-ignored "by and
large" doesn't excuse the fact that you just called every Vertigo fan
sanctimonious and assinine -- that includes a whole bunch of people who didn't
read your posts, didn't comment on your tastes, and frankly, John, probably
don't give a damn what you read.
In trying to defend your own tastes, you've just taken the opportunity to
pointlessly flame a lot of other people. While you might even be right about
some Vertigo/alternative readers, in the end it just sounds like the pot
calling the kettle black. As Psycho's quote indicates, it is possible to
get your point across without resorting to mudslinging.
> BTW, do repost your "boy from Vertigo" story..I've never seen it before..
Too bad... it's about this guy named Meredith who was so busy flaming another
r.a.c.misc poster's tastes, he just made himself look like an idiot.
Something we can all learn from.
By the way, Vertigo Town was not responsible for Meredith. He was a lone
gunman firing a magic bullet... a dud, actually.
Marc
John Holbrook (PAD)
A couple of points here Marc..
A)When I say "by and large", that indicates that what I'm saying is a
generalization, that applies to some, but not all. In my time, I've
been criticized quite a few times for my taste in comics..more often then
not, the profile of those who do the criticising is the same..the
Sandman/Vertigo/Cerebus reading type who can't stand mainstream super
hero stuff or the people who read it. My generalization is based on my
own experience..obviously it doesn't apply to everyone. I've even met a
few folks here on RACM who enjoy both Vertigo stuff and Image..go figure.
B)This isn't a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I flammed RJ
for criticising my taste in comics. I also flammed all of "his kind."
However, even though I don't enjoy Vertigo stuff, that doesn't mean that
I think there is anything wrong with people who do..an important
difference between me and RJ..I have quite a few friends who are
"Sandboys". I recognize that Vertigo is comprised of a lot of talented
people doing a lot of good work..its just in a genre I don't care for.
Best,
John
Abhiji...@transarc.com
R.J.Jo...@newcastle.ac.uk (Rich Johnston) writes:
> John Holbrook has confessed to having an anti
> Gaiman/Sandman/Vertigo bias.
> As a result, he is forbidden from reading any of the following books:
Rich Johnston has confessed to having an anti-Shooter/Defiant
bias. Therefore he is forbidden from reading anything Marvel or Epic
put out when Shooter was Editor-in-chief, since clearly Shooter had
some say in each storyline.
> And of course, if he has a anti-Sandman/Gaiman/Vertigo bias, he must
> also be against good stories, well written tight plots, comprehensive
> story telling, crisp and relevant dialogue and anything that attempts
> to get outside of the standard superhero cliche.
That statement would be accurate only if Sandman and Vertigo titles in
general were the only comics in the market that had all those sterling
virtues you describe. They certainly aren't. And furthermore, many of
the Vertigo titles don't exhibit the qualities you mentioned,
especially as far as well-writen plots go. Finally, Vertigo titles
aren't that far out of the superhero cliche. Personally, I can think of
several comics, mainstream and alternate, that are better than any of
the Vertigo titles except Sandman.
[ Egads, yesterday I was slagging John, today I'm defending him. Go
figure ... ]
Abhijit
John Holbrook (PAD)
>
>
>[ Egads, yesterday I was slagging John, today I'm defending him. Go
>figure ... ]
>
>Abhijit
Please..make up your mind..you're giving me a headache...:)
Best,
John
RLMA...@miamiu.bitnet
(PAD)) says:
>
>
>A)When I say "by and large", that indicates that what I'm saying is a
>generalization, that applies to some, but not all. In my time, I've
Generalizations, especially "by and large" are understood to apply to
more than half of the group referenced. That's not "some," but most.
>been criticized quite a few times for my taste in comics..more often then
>not, the profile of those who do the criticising is the same..the
>Sandman/Vertigo/Cerebus reading type who can't stand mainstream super
>hero stuff or the people who read it. My generalization is based on my
>own experience..obviously it doesn't apply to everyone. I've even met a
>few folks here on RACM who enjoy both Vertigo stuff and Image..go figure.
I'm sorry about that. Maybe you should just ignore them.
>
>B)This isn't a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I flammed RJ
>for criticising my taste in comics. I also flammed all of "his kind."
>However, even though I don't enjoy Vertigo stuff, that doesn't mean that
>I think there is anything wrong with people who do..an important
>difference between me and RJ..I have quite a few friends who are
>"Sandboys". I recognize that Vertigo is comprised of a lot of talented
>people doing a lot of good work..its just in a genre I don't care for.
"Talented people doing a lot of good work?" Then quit calling it
"alternative crap." You really weaken your argument every time you do
that. It's kind of like saying, "I'm not a racist, I love n____rs..."
You say you have nothing against us, and say that you understand the
works that we read to be of high quality, yet you continue to call it
"alternative crap." Stop. Please. I stayed out of this for a long
time because I easily saw your side of the matter. But you persisted
in calling what I read "crap" while also claiming that it is "good
work." Pick one or the other, and I'll be quiet.
>
>Best,
>
>John
>
>
? "Dish of ice cream? Don't tempt me!!!!" ?
? ?
? Lee Masheter, MSTie savant | Pilgrim of St. Damon, ?
? rlma...@miamiu.acs.muohio.edu | Patron Saint of the ?
? (Shew, that's a big 'un!) | Confused ?
Rich Johnston
Wrong, since I haven't confessed this. If you have derived it from any
of my statements then fine. You'd still be wrong. Rich's Previews has
tagged a couple of Defiant titles in the last few months, this tends to
mean I'll be buying them....
If I have criticised Shooter and his work, I have tried to give examples
and reasons and have conceded that I have been wrong on various
points. I still believe Shooter to be a weak writer and question his
editorial skills. I would hire him like a shot to be a PR man tho...
And of course I never said that Vertigo had exclusive claim to the
qualities I gave to it... how you derived that I can't tell. And I haven't
been able to fault a Vertigo title yet. Some can be better than others
but all retain the attributes I stated. Which particular titles or issues
were you referring to? And which Vertigo books retain the superhero
chiche anyway? I can think of many alternative comics that are better
than the Vertigo line (including Sandman) and I can think of one or two
mainstream comics that do the same too.. but that isn't even relevant!
Could you clear up my ignorance at all? (and if that isn't a straight
line I don't know what is.) (As is that of course.)
John Holbrook (PAD)
>In article <2q15ui$7...@mother.usf.edu>, holb...@luna.ec.usf.edu. (John Holbrook
>(PAD)) says:
>>
>>
>>A)When I say "by and large", that indicates that what I'm saying is a
>>generalization, that applies to some, but not all. In my time, I've
>
>Generalizations, especially "by and large" are understood to apply to
>more than half of the group referenced. That's not "some," but most.
Semantics..."some", "most", what's your point?
>
>>been criticized quite a few times for my taste in comics..more often then
>>not, the profile of those who do the criticising is the same..the
>>Sandman/Vertigo/Cerebus reading type who can't stand mainstream super
>>hero stuff or the people who read it. My generalization is based on my
>>own experience..obviously it doesn't apply to everyone. I've even met a
>>few folks here on RACM who enjoy both Vertigo stuff and Image..go figure.
>
>I'm sorry about that. Maybe you should just ignore them.
>
Their prevelence and sheer numbers make that difficult, but
that's still good advice...
>>
>>B)This isn't a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I flammed RJ
>>for criticising my taste in comics. I also flammed all of "his kind."
>>However, even though I don't enjoy Vertigo stuff, that doesn't mean that
>>I think there is anything wrong with people who do..an important
>>difference between me and RJ..I have quite a few friends who are
>>"Sandboys". I recognize that Vertigo is comprised of a lot of talented
>>people doing a lot of good work..its just in a genre I don't care for.
>
>"Talented people doing a lot of good work?" Then quit calling it
>"alternative crap." You really weaken your argument every time you do
>that. It's kind of like saying, "I'm not a racist, I love n____rs..."
>You say you have nothing against us, and say that you understand the
>works that we read to be of high quality, yet you continue to call it
>"alternative crap." Stop. Please. I stayed out of this for a long
>time because I easily saw your side of the matter. But you persisted
>in calling what I read "crap" while also claiming that it is "good
>work." Pick one or the other, and I'll be quiet.
Point taken..but you must realize, because that genre doesn't
appeal to me _personally_, my _personal_ opinion of the alternative genre
isn't all that high. As I've said, that fact doesn't stop me from
recognizing from a larger perspective than my own personal feelings that
there are a great many attributes to, say, the Vertigo line for example.
In other words, if you go in for that sort of thing, there are a lot of
extremely well done books (like the Vertigo line) within the genre..Me?
I think its crap...but that's because I have no interest in the eclective
alternative genre..
Best,
John
Alvaro E Pereira
------
Alvaro P.
Gary Lewandowski
> Informal rules in action, here folks! Ha, Ha!
If they are, then it's just more proof you didn't have them
correct in your original post. If I recall them correctly it
said you couldn't criticize the big guns (Gaiman here) and you
couldn't like Image (I think those are the rules you're claiming
are in action).
So what happened? RJ posts, sort of following those rules,
and everyone jumps on him, defending John's (possible) reading
habits. i.e. this is a direct refutation of your rules.
Can you clarify which posts, beyond RJ's original, follow
your rule?
--
Gary Lewandowski ga...@cs.wisc.edu Theory Slug of Doom
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think any form of government, not just Capitalism, is whatever the
people who have all our money, drunk or sober, sane or insane, decide
to do today.
-- Kurt Vonnegut, _Hocus Pocus_
Tom Johnston
> Amen brother. By and large, the Vertigo readership proves itself
>to be the most sanctimonious, and assinine fans in comics..Mr. Johnson is
>a shining example of said readership.
Take a deep breath and relax. The Vertigo readership is large and
diverse, and it is not fair to make such a sweeping generalization as
the above. The other Mr. Johnston speaks only for himself, and it is
wrong to slam all Vertigo fans because of something he said.
Sly and the Family Glenn
>In article <2q0lqf$2...@gopher.cs.uofs.edu> jm...@finch.cs.uofs.edu (Psycho Shawn Petren) writes:
>>
>> Psycho Shawn Petren has confessed to having an anti-Vertigo *reader*
>> bias, and the pompous tone of R.J.'s post explains why. Actually, I'm
>> not against all readers, just ones who use it as an excuse to look
>> at the rest of the comic-reading world through their nostrils.
>
> Amen brother. By and large, the Vertigo readership proves itself
>to be the most sanctimonious, and assinine fans in comics..Mr. Johnson is
>a shining example of said readership.
Why, thank you. You can't imagine how much that means, coming from
you. Well, maybe so, your imagination is pretty healthy. So what are
you an example of?
> BTW, do repost your "boy from Vertigo" story..I've never seen
> it before..
I'm not gonna touch that one. However, I do hope you get the chance
to read the original. >B^) >B^) >B^)
So tap your heels and say, "it's almost Summer, it's almost Summer,
it's almost Summer."
Pax ex machina,
Glenn
......................................................................
"Uh, you're saying he appears at our waveband 's edge at, say, five
after three, travelling backwards to three o'clock, where he
enters normal time..."
"That's right. Now, here's the *strange* part..."
--- The Planet and Crystal Man
g-car...@uchicago.edu, if you must know
......................................................................
John Holbrook (PAD)
>In article <2q15ui$7...@mother.usf.edu> holb...@luna.ec.usf.edu. (John Holbrook (PAD)) writes:
>>>> Amen brother. By and large, the Vertigo readership proves itself
>>>>to be the most sanctimonious, and assinine fans in comics..Mr. Johnson is
>>>>a shining example of said readership.
>>A)When I say "by and large", that indicates that what I'm saying is a
>>generalization, that applies to some, but not all.
>
Yes they do; don't they teach manners where you are?
Is this some new form
>of selective generalization you've lately invented? Explain to me how
>anyone who reads any of the Vertigo titles is supposed to read your
>statement as anything other than insult out of ignorance.
Easy, if it applies to them (if they read Vertigo and bash people
who read Image) then yes, it is meant to offend. If it doesn't apply,
then you shouldn't be offended.
>
>>In my time, I've
>>been criticized quite a few times for my taste in comics..
>
>I hate to tell you this, but it ain't your taste in comics that's the
>problem.
Maybe its the people who write to me?
>
>>B)This isn't a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I flammed RJ
>>for criticising my taste in comics. I also flammed all of "his kind."
>>However, even though I don't enjoy Vertigo stuff, that doesn't mean that
>>I think there is anything wrong with people who do..an important
>>difference between me and RJ..I have quite a few friends who are
>>"Sandboys". I recognize that Vertigo is comprised of a lot of talented
>>people doing a lot of good work..its just in a genre I don't care for.
>
>Look, try to put your mind around this.
No, that would really hurt, and be otherwise detrimental to my health....
> "His kind," according to you,
>is the "Vertigo readership." That's who you flammed, er, flamed.
A)I don't have a spell checker, and don't have time to go over my posts
with a fine tooth comb. If you do, more power to you. But the above is
a cheap, childish shot that has little to do with the matters concerning
the issues at hand. In other words, if you had a leg to stand on in
whatever point your trying to make, you wouldn't have to resort to taking
pot shots at my spelling.
B)Read my post again. I'm not flaming the entire Vertigo
readership. I'm flaming that segment of the Vertigo readership who are
so holier-than-though that they bash people who read mainstream super
hero books, such as is published by Image. I also make the observation
that most of the assisine individuals I've ever come across who would be
so shallow as to criticise someone on the basis of their taste in comics,
also read Vertigo-type stuff.
>Therefore, you *do* think there is something wrong with people who read
>Vertigo, they're "the most sanctimonious and asinine fans in comics."
I do not think there is anything wrong with someone who reads
Vertigo books per se. I've merely pointed out that some of the most
santimonious and asinine people I've ever met, also happen to read stuff
like Sandman, Death, Cerebus..alternative stuff. Any other
interpretation is making an unfounded leap in logic.
>Can you not see the difference between saying "Vertigo/Image Comics
>Suck" and "Vertigo/Image Fans Suck," or even "Rich's Post Sucks?" You
>can squirm all you want, it's an unwarranted slam against a group of
>people based on a label. And that Sucks.
I see your point Glenn; unfortunately, it has little to do with
this thread. I never said that Vertigo fans "suck", or any variation
thereof. I simply made an observation based on personal experience.
Best,
John
John Holbrook (PAD)
Your right..but for what its worth, Mr. Johnson (no t in there)
isn't the only person like this I've ever encountered. Fortunately, here
on Usenet, I've encountered a variety of people, who have a variety of
tastes, which on further invalidates my generalization...still, I've
encountered a whole lotta comic reading jerks in my time, and seems like
they all fit the same profile...
Best,
John
David R. Henry
>>Any work by Brandon Peterson, Joe Quesada, Simon Bisley and Todd
>>McFarlane because they've all done pinups in Sandman or Death.
>
> How moronic? I believe it was you who admitted to having an
>X-Men bias..well, your not allowed to read anything Chris Bachelo (sp)
>has ever done because he did an issue of X-Men Unlimited and is doing
>Generation X, so there!
Hey, for that matter, Mr. Watchmen himself, A. Moore, wrote the X-Men
at one time. Obviously, Rich cannot read anything by Moore, that
talentless hack.
> I've read enough Vertigo crap to know that I simply don't care
>for it..its to eclectic and inane for my taste.
I've read enough Vertigo crap to know that you can't base readability
and whether you want to collect a comic or not based on any one name
or word on the cover, be it an imprint, author, publisher, or character.
Well, almost any character.
"What is the use of a book," thought Alice, "without pictures or
conversations?"
--
David R. Henry - Rogue Fan Club // I love Gopher and Mosaic. Dawn made me.
Obessa Cantauit. -- Richard Darwin / What was the question? -- Kate Bush
"All you of Earth are IDIOTS!"-P9fOS // Thanks... for the memories.--Rogue
dhe...@plains.nodak.edu * Evolution: Give it some time, it'll grow on ya.
Sly and the Family Glenn
>>> Amen brother. By and large, the Vertigo readership proves itself
>>>to be the most sanctimonious, and assinine fans in comics..Mr. Johnson is
>>>a shining example of said readership.
>A)When I say "by and large", that indicates that what I'm saying is a
>generalization, that applies to some, but not all.
What, they don't teach English where you are? Is this some new form
of selective generalization you've lately invented? Explain to me how
anyone who reads any of the Vertigo titles is supposed to read your
statement as anything other than insult out of ignorance. But don't
use the same dictionary you looked up generalization in, it's broken.
>In my time, I've
>been criticized quite a few times for my taste in comics..
I hate to tell you this, but it ain't your taste in comics that's the
problem.
>B)This isn't a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I flammed RJ
>for criticising my taste in comics. I also flammed all of "his kind."
>However, even though I don't enjoy Vertigo stuff, that doesn't mean that
>I think there is anything wrong with people who do..an important
>difference between me and RJ..I have quite a few friends who are
>"Sandboys". I recognize that Vertigo is comprised of a lot of talented
>people doing a lot of good work..its just in a genre I don't care for.
Look, try to put your mind around this. "His kind," according to you,
is the "Vertigo readership." That's who you flammed, er, flamed.
Therefore, you *do* think there is something wrong with people who read
Vertigo, they're "the most sanctimonious and asinine fans in comics."
Can you not see the difference between saying "Vertigo/Image Comics
Suck" and "Vertigo/Image Fans Suck," or even "Rich's Post Sucks?" You
can squirm all you want, it's an unwarranted slam against a group of
people based on a label. And that Sucks.
Pax ex machina,
Glenn
......................................................................
"There's a lot of innocent people out there getting crucified"
"Does anybody else out there believe?"
"I believe!"
--- My Life with the Thrill Kill Cult
Abhiji...@transarc.com
R.J.Jo...@newcastle.ac.uk (Rich Johnston) writes:
> And of course I never said that Vertigo had exclusive claim to the
> qualities I gave to it... how you derived that I can't tell.
Well, maybe this previous statement of yours was a clue.
> And of course, if he has a anti-Sandman/Gaiman/Vertigo bias, he must
> also be against good stories, well written tight plots, comprehensive
> story telling, crisp and relevant dialogue and anything that attempts
> to get outside of the standard superhero cliche.
Certainly seems to indicate that if one doesn't like Vertigo, one can't
get a title with those sterling qualities.
>And I haven't
> been able to fault a Vertigo title yet. Some can be better than others
> but all retain the attributes I stated. Which particular titles or issues
> were you referring to?
All of the Vertigo titles have some weaknesses. Hellblazer is trash,
Black Orchid is no great shakes, the chicken I ate last night could
write a better storyline than Kid Eternity, Swamp Thing's latest
storyline was a damp squib (and the ones before were junk), Doom Patrol
and Scarab are too wannabee-weird, Sebastian O was junk.
All of Dematteis's work tends to put me to sleep. And I freely admit
that I have not liked any of Milligan's work except a Catwoman GN
and Enigma. (I do not like Shade and I thought the story in Rogan Josh
was above average, but no more). Animal Man has excellent
characterization, but tends to be too preachy. Sandman Mystery Theater
is too slow moving. Sandman was meandering most of last year, but has
picked up now.
Hex, by contrast, was great. Top notch art and storytelling.
>And which Vertigo books retain the superhero chiche anyway?
While none are straight superhero stories, almost all have derivations
from superheroes and dark fantasy. Sandman Mystery Theater is
superheroes + pulp. Doom Patrol is superheroes + surrealism. Animal Man
was a superhero title under Grant Morrision, and its only now that its
moved over to the horror side. Swamp Thing has been a superhero cum
horror title before (under Veitch). Even Sandman has some superhero
derivations. The first 4 issues of Black Orchid (at that point I
dropped it) were pretty much a superhero title (as much, as say Anima).
Both Scarab and Enigma are superheros, if weird ones.
Abhijit
Ted
> But don't
>use the same dictionary you looked up generalization in, it's broken.
Always check to see if my picture is next to "gullible", if so it's a good
one.
"Me, I'm more three-dimensional. I'm like Max Headroom, except I can't
be cancelled. Excuse me--gotta go pop in on a random group, be
annoying, and then disappear again." -- James 'Kibo' Parry
--
Ted Faber Figment at Large fa...@cs.wisc.edu
"The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit." -- Maugham
Sly and the Family Glenn
Your nose is growing. You started with:
>>>>> Amen brother. By and large, the Vertigo readership proves itself
>>>>>to be the most sanctimonious, and assinine fans in comics..Mr. Johnson is
>>>>>a shining example of said readership.
And then you said:
> I do not think there is anything wrong with someone who reads
>Vertigo books per se. I've merely pointed out that some of the most
>santimonious and asinine people I've ever met, also happen to read stuff
>like Sandman, Death, Cerebus..alternative stuff. Any other
>interpretation is making an unfounded leap in logic.
When you look up generalization, please look up logic and hypocrisy
while you're at it.
And then you have the *gall* to expect me to take seriously things like:
>>[response to the mangled meaning of generalization:]
>>What, they don't teach English where you are?
> Yes they do; don't they teach manners where you are?
See the above recommendation for an English dictionary, and the words
which you might want to look up. You insult a large segment of the
group ad hoc and unprovoked, come back saying black is white, and then
expect manners? Right. I don't respect posters who show up swinging
at everything in sight, and then deny they ever picked up the bat.
I'm afraid you voluntarily abdicated your generic allowance, and
you're gonna have to earn it if you want it back.
You don't like Rich's post, you take it up with Rich. Period.
I'm going to try this one more time, since it went right over your
head last time, and this is the most blatant case of hit-and-run
ignorant prejudice and subsequent escape from personal responsibility
into fantasy that I've seen on the net in some time:
>> "His kind," according to you,
>>is the "Vertigo readership." That's who you flammed, er flamed
>>Therefore, you *do* think there is something wrong with people who read
>>Vertigo, they're "the most sanctimonious and asinine fans in comics."
>>Can you not see the difference between saying "Vertigo/Image Comics
>>Suck" and "Vertigo/Image Fans Suck," or even "Rich's Post Sucks?" You
>>can squirm all you want, it's an unwarranted slam against a group of
>>people based on a label. And that Sucks.
It doesn't piss me off so much that you started off with the bigotry,
as the slimy pretzel logic attempts at rationalization that have
followed. You quote the words on the screen and *still* try to twist
their obvious meaning. This leads me to believe we can only expect
more of the same (unacceptable) posting behaviour from you. I can
count the number of posters to this group I've wished to see go away,
over about five years, on one hand. I really hope we don't have to
read any more posts like your first one, despite how doubtful that
would seem. Fortunately, we don't get many posts like that, and even
fewer attempts do *defend* them.
You really think that since I flamed your spelling (one word among
many), it's therefore logical to infer that I haven't got anything to
say, eh? Or would that just be some posts, but not all, based on
personal observation? Oh, well. I suppose GEnie's gain is our loss.
:-(
Pax ex machina,
Glenn
......................................................................
"Reality is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes"
"I don't want another one of your rational explanations"
John Holbrook (PAD)
>In article <2q3ijp$d...@mother.usf.edu> holb...@luna.ec.usf.edu. (John Holbrook (PAD)) writes:
>>In article <1994May2.1...@midway.uchicago.edu> lf...@midway.uchicago.edu writes:
>>>In article <2q15ui$7...@mother.usf.edu> holb...@luna.ec.usf.edu. (John Holbrook (PAD)) writes:
>> I see your point Glenn; unfortunately, it has little to do with
>>this thread. I never said that Vertigo fans "suck", or any variation
>>thereof. I simply made an observation based on personal experience.
>
>Your nose is growing. You started with:
>
>>>>>> Amen brother. By and large, the Vertigo readership proves itself
>>>>>>to be the most sanctimonious, and assinine fans in comics..Mr. Johnson is
>>>>>>a shining example of said readership.
O.K..where exactly do you see the word "suck" in the above post Glenn?
>
>And then you said:
>
>> I do not think there is anything wrong with someone who reads
>>Vertigo books per se. I've merely pointed out that some of the most
>>santimonious and asinine people I've ever met, also happen to read stuff
>>like Sandman, Death, Cerebus..alternative stuff. Any other
>>interpretation is making an unfounded leap in logic.
>
Again I ask, where is the word "suck"?
>When you look up generalization, please look up logic and hypocrisy
>while you're at it.
I would, but I can't spell, remember?
>
>And then you have the *gall* to expect me to take seriously things like:
>
>>>[response to the mangled meaning of generalization:]
>>>What, they don't teach English where you are?
>> Yes they do; don't they teach manners where you are?
Well Glenn, its obvious you take things WAAAYY too seriously...
>
>See the above recommendation for an English dictionary, and the words
>which you might want to look up. You insult a large segment of the
>group ad hoc and unprovoked,
No, I was quite provoked...
>come back saying black is white, and then
No..black is black..we can agree on that much...
>expect manners? Right. I don't respect posters who show up swinging
>at everything in sight, and then deny they ever picked up the bat.
Who's denying? Look, I said two things. 1)I despise people who
criticise others based on their taste in comics. 2)I find an
overwhelming amount of these kind of people among the Vertigo
readership..so I made a generalization about Vertigo people. Again, I
never meant to insult the general Vertigo readership..just that segment
which looks down their collective noses at those who read mainstream stuff..
>I'm afraid you voluntarily abdicated your generic allowance, and
>you're gonna have to earn it if you want it back.
>
To be honest Glenn, I could care less what you think about me,
its obvious your fruiter than a nut cake...
>You don't like Rich's post, you take it up with Rich. Period.
I did...and we've reached a greater understanding and respect for
one another..why your still ranting and raving, I'll never know..
>
>I'm going to try this one more time, since it went right over your
>head last time, and this is the most blatant case of hit-and-run
>ignorant prejudice and subsequent escape from personal responsibility
>into fantasy that I've seen on the net in some time:
>
>>> "His kind," according to you,
>>>is the "Vertigo readership." That's who you flammed, er flamed
>>>Therefore, you *do* think there is something wrong with people who read
>>>Vertigo, they're "the most sanctimonious and asinine fans in comics."
No, no, no, no.."His Kind" are the people who read Vertigo and
insult those who read what is, in their opinion, lesser titles, not the
overall Vertigo readership...I can understand why you might be confused
as to my meaning, but this is what I meant..stop putting words in my mouth..
>>>Can you not see the difference between saying "Vertigo/Image Comics
>>>Suck" and "Vertigo/Image Fans Suck," or even "Rich's Post Sucks?" You
>>>can squirm all you want, it's an unwarranted slam against a group of
>>>people based on a label. And that Sucks.
Once again Glenn I ask you, where in the hell did I say something
"sucks?"
>
>It doesn't piss me off so much that you started off with the bigotry,
"bigotry"??? Now that's a bit strong..
>followed. You quote the words on the screen and *still* try to twist
>their obvious meaning.
Obvious to everyone but you Glenn...
> This leads me to believe we can only expect
>more of the same (unacceptable) posting behaviour from you. I can
>count the number of posters to this group I've wished to see go away,
>over about five years, on one hand. I really hope we don't have to
>read any more posts like your first one, despite how doubtful that
>would seem. Fortunately, we don't get many posts like that, and even
>fewer attempts do *defend* them.
This is Usenet Glenn..get used to it..do a kill file, skip my
posts..gawd, take a valum for cryin' out loud..these are comic books were
talking about here..
>
>You really think that since I flamed your spelling (one word among
>many), it's therefore logical to infer that I haven't got anything to
>say, eh?
No, it just makes you look even more petty and assinine than is
served by the content in your post..If you had a rational, reasonable
point, you could make it without the numerous pot shots...
>:-(
>
>Pax ex machina,
>Glenn
Your use of latin makes me wonder if you grew up in a Catholic
school..an alter boy perhaps? I've heard that kind of upbringing can
leave emotional scars..perhaps this is the key to your emotional problems
Glenn? Ack! That was a cheap shot..sorry couldn't resist..anyway, calm
down Glenn and enjoy life.
Best,
John
Mean Mister Mustard
>>>>>>>to be the most sanctimonious, and assinine fans in comics..Mr. Johnson is
>>>>>>>a shining example of said readership.
The flame heard round the net...
Much later, he writes:
> Who's denying? Look, I said two things. 1)I despise people who
>criticise others based on their taste in comics. 2)I find an
>overwhelming amount of these kind of people among the Vertigo
>readership..so I made a generalization about Vertigo people. Again, I
>never meant to insult the general Vertigo readership..just that segment
^^^^^
>which looks down their collective noses at those who read mainstream stuff..
and:
>
> No, no, no, no.."His Kind" are the people who read Vertigo and
>insult those who read what is, in their opinion, lesser titles, not the
>overall Vertigo readership...I can understand why you might be confused
>as to my meaning, but this is what I meant..stop putting words in my mouth..
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Maybe this is the problem right here. Regardless of what you meant, your
original post was taken as an insult by myself, and Glenn, and probably many
others. Glenn isn't putting words in your mouth, he's reading the words
you wrote. Perhaps in a way you didn't intend them to be read, but then,
that's one of the problems with a sweeping generalization, isn't it?
Incidentally, saying a group proves itself to be "the most sanctimonious and
assinine fans in comics" is a direct shot at the WHOLE group, whether the
phrase is qualified by a wimpy little "by and large" or not. I know you've
said repeatedly that you weren't attacking all Vertigo readers, but looking
back at your post, can you honestly not understand why people read it that
way?
Marc
John Holbrook (PAD)
>
>> Who's denying? Look, I said two things. 1)I despise people who
>>criticise others based on their taste in comics. 2)I find an
>>overwhelming amount of these kind of people among the Vertigo
>>readership..so I made a generalization about Vertigo people. Again, I
>>never meant to insult the general Vertigo readership..just that segment
> ^^^^^
>>which looks down their collective noses at those who read mainstream stuff..
>
>and:
>>
>> No, no, no, no.."His Kind" are the people who read Vertigo and
>>insult those who read what is, in their opinion, lesser titles, not the
>>overall Vertigo readership...I can understand why you might be confused
>>as to my meaning, but this is what I meant..stop putting words in my mouth..
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>Maybe this is the problem right here. Regardless of what you meant, your
>original post was taken as an insult by myself, and Glenn, and probably many
>others. Glenn isn't putting words in your mouth, he's reading the words
>you wrote. Perhaps in a way you didn't intend them to be read, but then,
>that's one of the problems with a sweeping generalization, isn't it?
I see your point..sweeping generalizations can be a bad
thing...but have their place in the heat of anger..
>
>Incidentally, saying a group proves itself to be "the most sanctimonious and
>assinine fans in comics" is a direct shot at the WHOLE group, whether the
>phrase is qualified by a wimpy little "by and large" or not. I know you've
>said repeatedly that you weren't attacking all Vertigo readers, but looking
>back at your post, can you honestly not understand why people read it that
>way?
>
>Marc
>
Yes, especially since what I've said has been quoted out of
context on a number of occasions..the original post didn't garner all
that much of a reaction..it wasn't until Glenn choped out certain
comments I made and put them under a magnifying glass that people started
getting riled..happens all too often in electronic communication..I have
clarified my meaning, which should be satisfactory enough.
Best,
John
Gary Lewandowski
> I see your point..sweeping generalizations can be a bad
>thing...but have their place in the heat of anger..
Ding.
Maybe one should wait to post until after the heat of anger has passed.
It tends to make one's posts more coherent and less inflammatory.
(I disagree that sweeping generalizations, especially of the inflammatory
sort, ever have a place in civilized conversation.)
>In article <2q7f3u$1...@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> ma...@wam.umd.edu (Mean Mister Mustard) writes:
>>
>>Incidentally, saying a group proves itself to be "the most sanctimonious and
>>assinine fans in comics" is a direct shot at the WHOLE group, whether the
>>phrase is qualified by a wimpy little "by and large" or not. I know you've
>>said repeatedly that you weren't attacking all Vertigo readers, but looking
>>back at your post, can you honestly not understand why people read it that
>>way?
> Yes, especially since what I've said has been quoted out of
>context on a number of occasions..the original post didn't garner all
>that much of a reaction..it wasn't until Glenn choped out certain
I thought your original statement was a shot at the whole group, but
I was hoping this whole thread would quickly disappear, so I didn't
bother to follow up.
I'm not quite as bothered as Glenn about it, because I expect usenet
to be essentially void of reasonable opinions anyway, but it was a rather
poor choice of words.
On the other hand, you should be glad Tim Maroney isn't around.
--
Gary Lewandowski ga...@cs.wisc.edu Theory Slug of Doom
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If 'publish or perish' were really true, Leonhard Euler would still be alive.
-- Eric Bach
Sly and the Family Glenn
> No, it just makes you look even more petty and assinine than is
>served by the content in your post..If you had a rational, reasonable
>point, you could make it without the numerous pot shots...
It's "asinine," John. Well, now that I know what this guy's about,
it's kind of entertaining watching him strip in public. But I
regress. :-) I give up on you, John, you're obviously impervious to
logic. You wouldn't notice a rational, reasonable point if it jumped
up and down waving and screaming five inches from your face trying to
offer you a free trip to Paris whilst whacking your nose. But, hey,
it's your fantasy. Enjoy. :-)
> That was a cheap shot..sorry couldn't resist..anyway, calm
>down Glenn and enjoy life.
Not too worry, I'm a practitioner of cynical hedonism, even in virtual
September. >B^) I notice you ducked the reference to GEnie. Can't
imagine why. :-) I got no less than 5 lengthy bits of mail delineating
your shenanigans, directly after I called you on the original insults.
But, I'd never heard of you before so I hadn't realized you were such
a lost cause. Now that I know better, stuff and nonsense. There's no
sense in bothering with it.
Pax ex machina,
Glenn
......................................................................
"Welcome to Neither-Nor. You ain't. We ain't."
--- Rogan Gosh
g-car...@uchicago.edu, if you must know
......................................................................
Sly and the Family Glenn
>lf...@ellis.uchicago.edu (Sly and the Family Glenn) writes:
>
>> But don't
>>use the same dictionary you looked up generalization in, it's broken.
>
>Always check to see if my picture is next to "gullible", if so it's a good
>one.
Yes, and then check "asinine" for mine. The OED was kind enough to
include the family tartan.
Pax ex machina,
Glenn
......................................................................
"Only death could free her from the curse of becoming a parody of her
sister."
--- Doug
Gary Lewandowski
>In article <2q607s$b...@spool.cs.wisc.edu> fa...@swiss.cs.wisc.edu (Ted) writes:
>>lf...@ellis.uchicago.edu (Sly and the Family Glenn) writes:
>>> But don't
>>>use the same dictionary you looked up generalization in, it's broken.
>>
>>Always check to see if my picture is next to "gullible", if so it's a good
>>one.
>Yes, and then check "asinine" for mine. The OED was kind enough to
>include the family tartan.
Now I feel left out. I thought for sure mine would be by "slug,"
but no such luck.
--
Gary Lewandowski ga...@cs.wisc.edu Theory Slug of Doom
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You know, sometimes a man just can't satisfy all of a woman's desires.
Which is why God invented dental floss." -- Susanne Kollrack
John Holbrook (PAD)
>In <2q811q$p...@mother.usf.edu> holb...@luna.ec.usf.edu. (John Holbrook (PAD)) writes:
>
>> I see your point..sweeping generalizations can be a bad
>>thing...but have their place in the heat of anger..
>
>Ding.
>
>Maybe one should wait to post until after the heat of anger has passed.
>It tends to make one's posts more coherent and less inflammatory.
>(I disagree that sweeping generalizations, especially of the inflammatory
>sort, ever have a place in civilized conversation.)
Point taken.
>
>>In article <2q7f3u$1...@cville-srv.wam.umd.edu> ma...@wam.umd.edu (Mean Mister Mustard) writes:
>>>
>>>Incidentally, saying a group proves itself to be "the most sanctimonious and
>>>assinine fans in comics" is a direct shot at the WHOLE group, whether the
>>>phrase is qualified by a wimpy little "by and large" or not. I know you've
>>>said repeatedly that you weren't attacking all Vertigo readers, but looking
>>>back at your post, can you honestly not understand why people read it that
>>>way?
>
>> Yes, especially since what I've said has been quoted out of
>>context on a number of occasions..the original post didn't garner all
>>that much of a reaction..it wasn't until Glenn choped out certain
>
>
>I'm not quite as bothered as Glenn about it, because I expect usenet
>to be essentially void of reasonable opinions anyway, but it was a rather
>poor choice of words.
Umm..the statement about Usenet..isn't that one of them thar
sweeping generalizations???
Best,
John
John Holbrook (PAD)
It appears some statements I made in the heat of anger hacked
some people off..specifically Vertigo fans. Lemme 'splain.
I have been around on alot of nets and online services that
dicuss comics. I've communicated with many comic readers. Invaribly, I
run into the same pattern:
"Hi, welcome to our comic discussion. Glad to have you. Make
yourself ta home. What do you read?"
"Oh well, I enjoy The Incredible Hulk.."
"Acceptable"
"...and I enjoy the Superman books.."
"Check"
"..as well as Spawn, WildC.A.T.S, Stormwatch.."
"WHAT!?!?! You read Image?!?! Hand me that flame thrower.."
"But..but..but, what do you guys read?"
"First, no super hero books published after 1970.
Second, you must read Vertigo, Cerebus, Bone...If you read mainstream
super hero comics (with the exception of precious few titles)then you are
obviously either pre-pubesent or otherwise retarded."
"But..but..but..I'm 24 years old..I'm married..I'm six credits from a
Masters degree.."
<Lighting the flame thrower.."Woooosh!!!">
As you might understand, repeated experiences like this one might
tend to bias your views toward the alternative comic reading crowd. But,
let me try to explain how I feel:
1)I would never hold anything against someone based on their
taste in comics. You like Sandman? Fine by me. You like Spawn? Fine.
It really doesn't matter to me. Why should it? To each his own..what
floats your boat might sink mine..just differences in taste. What I read
doesn't make me any better than anyone else, and visa versa.
2)Because I feel the way I feel, I sometimes get urked at the
attitude that SOME comic readers have. "Hey, I read ADULT comics..I READ
my comics, I just don't look at the pictures like those fanboys...You
have to have a BRAIN to read my comics..not like that mainstream
stuff.." You get the picture.
Now, I'll be honest. Since I came on Usenet, I've really been
quite pleased. I really have never run into the above scenario. There
really is a nice mix of people here..people who seem to be big enough to
tollerate other folks taste in comics. But you still have the
occassional "I'm better than you because I read Verigo and
you read Image" type...I came across one, and blew my stack. I'm human.
If you were offended, you have my apologies...I'm big enough to
do that..I shouldn't have made certain generalizations about the
alternative book reading crowd, despite my experiences.
Comics are meant to be read and enjoyed, and so is Usenet...we
should all remember that.
Now Glenn, you can reply to this post and come up with some
explaination of how I'm trying to play on peoples sympathies, or trying
to twist reality...or whatever..all the while correcting my spelling.
Best,
John
The Isle of Glenn
>1)I've never, ever been on RIME.
My apologies, I got so much mail on you that I must have
confused the networks.
>2)FIDO, GEnie..same type of crowd in both..relates to my story illustration..
Since I "know" many of these people, I can gaurantee you that
r.a.c.m. is the "same type of crowd," i.e. just as diverse as the
parent societies of which it is part.
>3)US whatever..<geeze, the gossipers can't even get the names of the
>networks right..> is USNet Mail..I moderate that conference along with
>the WME (World Message Exchange) Comics Conference..I've had a wonderful
>time on USNet Mail..with the exeption of buying some comics from a guy
>who doesn't know how to grade..Just took over WME a few months ago..it
>was off to a rough start, but is looking quite bright now..
No, they got it right, blame that one on me. That's certainly
a different perspective on these matters, but I wasn't there.
However, apart from the apology for confusing RIME, this is the reason
I replied. For the benefit of people who frequent r.a.c.marketplace,
a word to the wise: if you do biz with John, do it C.O.D.
> As for your advice..I do remember all the lovely fun I had on
>FIDO and GEnie..such lovely people frequent both..and I _have_ applied
>them here..perhaps you didn't read my little illustrative story?
Yes I did. I responded to it, didn't I? Well, that's too
bad, but as Gaunt would say, "Your choice."
Pax ex machina,
Glenn
......................................................................
"Well, I'll unplug the jukebox, and do us all a favor,
that music's lost its taste, let's try a new flavor,
--- Adam and the Ants
g-car...@chicago.edu, if you must know
......................................................................
Greg McElhatton
> Now anyone got any ideas as to what the lump of clay in Maxx refers
> to. I'm going to have to do some serious back issue reading...
It's Mr. Gone's head, of course. :)
--
Greg McElhatton Bitnet: stu_gl...@jmuvax.bitnet
GEnie: DRIZZAN Internet: stu_gl...@vax1.acs.jmu.edu
"The horror, the horror!" --Greg's reaction to EXCALIBUR #75
The Isle of Glenn
> Now Glenn, you can reply to this post and come up with some
>explaination of how I'm trying to play on peoples sympathies, or trying
>to twist reality...or whatever..all the while correcting my spelling.
Now that my History is up to snuff, I would simply ask you to remember
your experiences on RIME, Fido, GEnie, US whatever, etc., and apply
them here. There's absolutely no necessity to repeat those
experiences here, I hope you don't. And I'll leave your explanation
alone. :-)
Pax ex machina,
Glenn
............................................................
"Holy Wednesday ... when the Passion according to Saint Luke
is read. This proved impossible, though, when it was
discovered that Grendel had planted a homing beacon in
St. Elvis Cathedral that attracted the Tower's entire
pigeon population to roost there overnight"
--- Matt Wagner
Gary Lewandowski
What's the point of a sense of humor if everybody gets the joke
all the time...
John Holbrook (PAD)
>In article <2q94fa$s...@mother.usf.edu> holb...@luna.ec.usf.edu. (John Holbrook (PAD)) writes:
>> Now Glenn, you can reply to this post and come up with some
>>explaination of how I'm trying to play on peoples sympathies, or trying
>>to twist reality...or whatever..all the while correcting my spelling.
>
>Now that my History is up to snuff, I would simply ask you to remember
>your experiences on RIME, Fido, GEnie, US whatever, etc., and apply
>them here. There's absolutely no necessity to repeat those
>experiences here, I hope you don't. And I'll leave your explanation
>alone. :-)
>
Up to snuff? Not quite..I can tell you've been conversing with my
rumor mongering fans...one would think a big boy like you would have
better things to do with your time..BUT..let me clarify the innacuracies..
1)I've never, ever been on RIME.
2)FIDO, GEnie..same type of crowd in both..relates to my story illustration..
3)US whatever..<geeze, the gossipers can't even get the names of the
networks right..> is USNet Mail..I moderate that conference along with
the WME (World Message Exchange) Comics Conference..I've had a wonderful
time on USNet Mail..with the exeption of buying some comics from a guy
who doesn't know how to grade..Just took over WME a few months ago..it
was off to a rough start, but is looking quite bright now..
As for your advice..I do remember all the lovely fun I had on
FIDO and GEnie..such lovely people frequent both..and I _have_ applied
them here..perhaps you didn't read my little illustrative story?
Best,
John