Xorn: a retrospective
Paul O'Brien
SPOILERS
So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
Let's take a look.
NEW X-MEN 2001: The opening scene which recapped Xorn's history is
written as a demonstration for John Sublime of the U-Men and so it's
consistent with Magneto's claim to have falsified the whole thing. Ao
Jun, the Chinese government agent who's present at the demo, is a mutant
and is evidently in on the scam - he plants the clues that lead the
X-Men there. (He was killed by a U-Man at the end of the issue, so
we'll probably never know for sure.) The scheme was also trying to set
up the U-Men, and Magneto would be opposed to them anyway.
The flashback to Xorn being imprisoned is actually Emma Frost reading
telepathic imprints from a key which, in retrospect, must have been
planted by Magneto. The key is very, very important indeed, for reasons
that I'll come back to.
Xorn's first line of dialogue - in English, even though nobody should be
able to telepathically teach him the language - is this:-
"I could have built heaven on earth, if only they'd let me. I could
have laid the foundation stones of paradise here on earth." Entirely
consistent with Magneto's view of himself.
Xorn's fake prison was called Feng Tu. When asked about this name, Emma
Frost replies "It's from mythology."
NEW X-MEN #122: After that, Xorn is packed off to a monastery "for
healing." Cyclops picks him up in New X-Men #122 to help in the fight
with Cassandra Nova. This is where he suddenly develops healing powers,
despite that having nothing whatsoever to do with the "sun in the head"
concept.
NEW X-MEN #123: Xorn and Cyclops are knocked out by the Imperial Guard
off panel without ever getting off the blocks.
NEW X-MEN #124: Xorn and Cyclops spend this issue as prisoners aboard a
Shi'ar craft. Of course, Magneto has a common interest in stopping
Cassandra, so there's no logical problem with him siding with the X-Men
here. Xorn dutifully plays naive throughout the story, and camps it up
tremendously ("He [Scott] is NOT mad. Scott is my friend! WHAT IS THIS
WORLD OF LIARS?!")
They escape when Xorn knocks out G-Type of the Imperial Guard as a
distraction; Scott attributes this to his suggestion to do
something-or-other involving the "sun for a brain" gimmick, but what
G-Type actually says is "My core is in flux. There is an unknown
gravitational source interfering..."
NEW X-MEN #125: As the fight continues, Xorn is shown to be affecting
G-Type with energy waves from his hands, not his head. He goes on to
save Lilandra, but then why wouldn't he? It's consistent with his
cover, besides which he has no issue with Lilandra, who isn't human.
When Xorn reveals that the spacecraft is about to blow up, his dialogue
is (emphasis added): "This superdestroyer machine is about to commit
suicide... I can hear its ELECTROMAGNETIC alarms."
NEW X-MEN #126: Xorn and Cyclops return to the Mansion, where
Cassandra's body is dying and Xavier has been downloaded into Jean's
mind - and she's also dying, because of the nano-sentinel infection.
Xorn pronounces Cassandra dead and says that there is nothing he can do
about her. Cyclops protests that Xorn said he could "bring the
Professor back" - and he was healing dead birds when we saw him in issue
#123, so Scott's response isn't unreasonable.
Xorn dodges the question somewhat. He replies "I can, but he is gone
from that body and my true task is now clear to me. I'm hear to heal
you [referring to Jean]." Xorn then "heals" everyone in the mansion by
killing the Sentinel infestations in their body. ("There. The
Sentinels in your bloodstream... they are dead now.") Of course,
Magneto would have no problem with that, because they're metal
creatures. Presumably this is where Magneto picked up the nanosentinels
which he claims to have used to fix Xavier's nervous system - the
mansion was overrun with them at the relevant time. Xorn then proceeds
to help in the fight against Cassandra, but again, why wouldn't he?
Issue #126 is the only time that Xorn the "healer" actually heals anyone
- and it's from a disease involving nano-Sentinels. Every other time
he's asked to heal someone from anything else, he makes up an excuse not
to do it.
NEW X-MEN #127: this is the Xorn solo story. As the penultimate page
makes clear, the narration is a letter written by Xorn to Xavier, in
character. Therefore, it's all lies and can be safely ignored. What
remains is in character for Magneto. He goes to Chinatown in accordance
with his cover story. He sees a teenage mutant who's unwell, and tries
to help. When the mutant goes nuts (in an area shown to be heavily
populated with other mutants), Magneto tries to calm him down. He
regrets the boy's death. Strip away the narration, which we now know to
be falsified, and the story makes perfect sense - albeit from a rather
different light. The narration happily replaces a large chunk of the
actual dialogue, so a lot of the time we're left with Xorn's highly
dubious account of what was said.
Note also that Xorn establishes in that issue that Xavier can't read his
mind - which he attributed to the "blinding" effect of the sun in his
head. Presumably the mask actually served a double purpose of
disguising Magnus' identity and blocking telepathic scans.
NEW X-MEN #135: Xorn's founded his Special Class. Of course, Xorn
remains in character as they go off on their field trip over the next
few issues.
In issue #135, Xorn is able to light a campfire by... well, doing
something with his head. We see it from behind and vaguely. Device in
the helmet? All the other characters are standing behind him as well,
incidentally.
Meanwhile, back at the Mansion, the Riot is starting. Oddly, Xorn has
chosen to get the hell out of the way and go on a camping trip instead.
And just where was Quire getting his drugs from...?
NEW X-MEN #136: Xorn slaughters a bunch of U-Men - entirely out of
character for the pacifist. Angel finds him in the aftermath. Xorn's
comment is that "Sometimes the teacher must leave to make room for
learning," which in retrospect may refer to him dropping his persona.
Xorn then tells Angel that "this will be our secret." But why did Xorn
want to keep it secret? Now we know.
Angel quietly acquiesces; as we saw this issue, Xorn has extended some
sort of mental control over the Special Class, by hijacking Martha's
telepathy. ("Martha says we have to do what Mister Xorn says!",
according to Ernst. Martha, of course, is hooked up to a machine and
therefore at Magneto's mercy...)
NEW X-MEN #137: Xorn is present at the tail end of the Riot, but does
nothing of note.
NEW X-MEN #138: Xorn and the Beast head off to recapture Glob Herman.
Now we know how Xorn was somehow able to move a bloody great cement
mixer apparently using only his physical strength - it's made of metal.
Later in the issue, when Quentin Quire is dying, Xavier summons Xorn to
heal him. Xorn attends, but again makes excuses for not using his
supposed healing powers. He says that Quire is "only changing" and it
would be "wrong to interfere." Of course, he's lying. The final
exchange of dialogue reads very differently in retrospect:
XORN: When I was a boy, not much younger than you are, Quentin, a little
star opened like a flower inside my head.
QUIRE: What if the real enemy... was inside... all along?
XORN [saluting]: A flower made of lights is opening in you. I can help
you to let go of your last, painful attachments to this flesh where you
were grown. There is something in you that is like me. Do you see?
And then Xorn removes his faceplate, for only Quire to see. Quire
screams... and dies before he can tell anyone why.
NEW X-MEN #139: The Jean/Emma showdown. Xorn stands around and has a
couple of neutral lines. "I can feel such stress and pain here... like
gravity bending space." Hmm.
NEW X-MEN #140: Xorn is looking after the Special Class when Bishop and
Sage come round to visit. Sage asks him what he was doing when Emma was
shot; his reply is "Meditating, I believe." Near the end of the issue,
Sage sets out some of their unanswered questions in narrative captions.
One of them, "Who supplied the drug called Kick we keep hearing so much
about?" is positioned right next to a panel of Xorn and the Special
Class...
NEW X-MEN #141: Sage comments that "We shouldn't have come here, Bishop.
There's something rotten at the Xavier School. Riots, drugs, telepathic
adultery, murder..." I'll come back to that list later.
The Beak, one of the Special Class under Xorn's influence, offers
himself as the murderer but botches the confession. Is Magneto trying
to throw the investigators off the scent?
Later, Xorn accompanies Xavier, Sage and Bishop to the hut where Angel
and Beak are looking after their pupae. Dialogue:
XORN: Angel and Beak are not killers, Charles. I know these children
and trust in their goodness.
XAVIER: Sometimes even the best people will do terrible things to
protect their secrets, Mr Xorn.
Did Magneto have Emma killed by one of his Special Class because she had
worked out who he really was - or perhaps she knew he was the Kick
dealer?
Xorn was, presumably, the man who pointed a gun at Sage's back. She
described him as male and "at least six foot two, possibly taller".
According to the Official Handbook, Magneto's height is... six foot two.
And Xorn makes no appearance in issues #142-145.
Now then...
Sage listed four things that were symptoms of something being "rotten"
at Xavier's school. Presumably Magneto is responsible for all four.
1. RIOTS. Magneto has been subverting the pupils - note that Quire was
pro-Magneto. And Quire was also on Kick.
2. DRUGS. Which he got from Magneto.
3. MURDER. Magneto tried to kill Emma, presumably because she either
worked out who he was, or found out that he was the Kick supplier.
4. TELEPATHIC ADULTERY. Hold on... telepathic adultery? Magneto was
responsible for Scott and Emma's relationship? Ludicrous, I hear you
cry!
But no.
Scott and Emma's adultery subplot started in... NEW X-MEN 2001, Xorn's
first appearance. Emma is given a key which is supposedly the key to
Xorn's cell, but which we now know must have been created by Magneto as
part of the charade. Cyclops asks her to read it telepathically for
information. Emma replies "I'll try, but I hope you all realize this
could take hour upon tedious hour..."
To her immense surprise, she is instead bombarded with overpowering
images of Xorn's supposed origin story in the very next panel, and
doesn't even get to finish her sentence. Emma finds exposure to
Magneto's poisoned key so unpleasant that she collapses and then
switches to diamond form in order to turn off her telepathic powers.
That night (and a mere two pages later), Emma turns up at Scott's room
wearing an evening gown and holding champagne. "I couldn't sleep after
the traumas of the day," she says.
The key was clearly set up to deceive telepaths. Did it also poison
Emma's mind and put the idea of the affair into her head? Apparently
so...
--
Paul O'Brien
THE X-AXIS - http://www.thexaxis.com
ARTICLE 10 - http://www.ninthart.com
LIVEJOURNAL - http://www.livejournal.com/~paulobrien
Ji...@whatever.com
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>So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous
>appearances?
Excellent recap. The story was all there.
Also of note is the fact that 146 cover of Xorn was
initially a cover for an earlier issue. I think it was the
Xorn solo issue that you mention.
Jess Nevins
Paul O'Brien
writes
>
>Excellent recap. The story was all there.
Thanks. One other point worth mentioning:
SPOILERS
The prison in New X-Men 2001 doesn't have any staff! At least, not
unless you count the warden, who's in league with Magneto.
There are a load of visiting U-Men in their containment suits, and some
people who might be other U-Men or might be robots. But there can't be
any need for containment suits, because the warden doesn't bother with
one. So why would all the guards be wearing one?
There's nobody there! The prison only has one employee because Magneto
faked the rest with robots!
lavar78
<pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
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> So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
> Let's take a look.
>
> Xorn's first line of dialogue - in English, even though nobody should be
> able to telepathically teach him the language - is this:-
>
> "I could have built heaven on earth, if only they'd let me. I could
> have laid the foundation stones of paradise here on earth." Entirely
> consistent with Magneto's view of himself.
>
I totally forgot about those lines.
> Xorn's fake prison was called Feng Tu. When asked about this name, Emma
> Frost replies "It's from mythology."
>
Do we know what it means?
> They escape when Xorn knocks out G-Type of the Imperial Guard as a
> distraction; Scott attributes this to his suggestion to do
> something-or-other involving the "sun for a brain" gimmick, but what
> G-Type actually says is "My core is in flux. There is an unknown
> gravitational source interfering..."
>
Hmm...
> When Xorn reveals that the spacecraft is about to blow up, his dialogue
> is (emphasis added): "This superdestroyer machine is about to commit
> suicide... I can hear its ELECTROMAGNETIC alarms."
>
I'm ashamed that didn't set off *any* flags.
Wow. I think I was blinded by my disdain for Xorn.
> Later in the issue, when Quentin Quire is dying, Xavier summons Xorn to
> heal him. Xorn attends, but again makes excuses for not using his
> supposed healing powers. He says that Quire is "only changing" and it
> would be "wrong to interfere." Of course, he's lying. The final
> exchange of dialogue reads very differently in retrospect:
>
> XORN: When I was a boy, not much younger than you are, Quentin, a little
> star opened like a flower inside my head.
>
> QUIRE: What if the real enemy... was inside... all along?
>
> XORN [saluting]: A flower made of lights is opening in you. I can help
> you to let go of your last, painful attachments to this flesh where you
> were grown. There is something in you that is like me. Do you see?
>
> And then Xorn removes his faceplate, for only Quire to see. Quire
> screams... and dies before he can tell anyone why.
>
That's classic! The "star for a head" was the perfect cover. Come to
think of it, seeing Xorn's true face was probably the most shocking
think Quentin could've seen.
As a shot in the dark, that dialogue makes me wonder if Quentin isn't
helping Xorn and/or Martha control the special class. Unlikely, but
still.
> 4. TELEPATHIC ADULTERY. Hold on... telepathic adultery? Magneto was
> responsible for Scott and Emma's relationship? Ludicrous, I hear you
> cry!
>
> But no.
>
> Scott and Emma's adultery subplot started in... NEW X-MEN 2001, Xorn's
> first appearance. Emma is given a key which is supposedly the key to
> Xorn's cell, but which we now know must have been created by Magneto as
> part of the charade. Cyclops asks her to read it telepathically for
> information. Emma replies "I'll try, but I hope you all realize this
> could take hour upon tedious hour..."
>
> To her immense surprise, she is instead bombarded with overpowering
> images of Xorn's supposed origin story in the very next panel, and
> doesn't even get to finish her sentence. Emma finds exposure to
> Magneto's poisoned key so unpleasant that she collapses and then
> switches to diamond form in order to turn off her telepathic powers.
>
> That night (and a mere two pages later), Emma turns up at Scott's room
> wearing an evening gown and holding champagne. "I couldn't sleep after
> the traumas of the day," she says.
>
> The key was clearly set up to deceive telepaths. Did it also poison
> Emma's mind and put the idea of the affair into her head? Apparently
> so...
I don't know about this one. It makes sense, but I hate it when the
"good guys" aren't forced to take full responsibility for their actions
(Scott with Maddie, Xavier as Onslaught, etc.).
Well done, Paul! Bravo, Morrison! I have to admit I'm impressed.
Score one for the "Morrison has a plan" brigade.
--
/lavar78
Paul O'Brien
<lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> writes
SPOILERS
>
>As a shot in the dark, that dialogue makes me wonder if Quentin isn't
>helping Xorn and/or Martha control the special class. Unlikely, but
>still.
Nope. Xavier and the Beast summon Xorn to try and save Quentin from
dying. Of course, Quentin's illness has nothing to do with nanotech, so
there's nothing Xorn can do about it. So he makes up this gibberish
about Quentin moving on to another phase of his life cycle, as an excuse
for why he shouldn't use his oh-so-powerful healing abilities.
Quentin's dead. Xorn was lying and the X-Men fell for it.
>I don't know about this one. It makes sense, but I hate it when the
>"good guys" aren't forced to take full responsibility for their actions
>(Scott with Maddie, Xavier as Onslaught, etc.).
It wouldn't get Scott off the hook, only Emma. And in any event it's
not clear that the key necessarily did anything more than put the idea
into her mind.
Billy Bissette
news:G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk:
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> So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
> Let's take a look.
>
> NEW X-MEN #122: After that, Xorn is packed off to a monastery "for
> healing." Cyclops picks him up in New X-Men #122 to help in the fight
> with Cassandra Nova. This is where he suddenly develops healing powers,
> despite that having nothing whatsoever to do with the "sun in the head"
> concept.
Doesn't he heal the bird here, before going off with Scott? I remember
the scene, but not the details.
His later healing uses the nanosentinels that Cassandra spread amongst
the X-Men. So how did he heal the bird? Was the bird just wounded enough
that a rather strong Magneto could do it within his own powers, or perhaps
Nova had used nanosentinels earlier?
> Issue #126 is the only time that Xorn the "healer" actually heals anyone
> - and it's from a disease involving nano-Sentinels. Every other time
> he's asked to heal someone from anything else, he makes up an excuse not
> to do it.
To be fair about it, he outright says he doesn't have enough power to
heal the horse. Whether he referred to his own ability, or he had figured
out he could use nanosentinels to heal...
> Note also that Xorn establishes in that issue that Xavier can't read his
> mind - which he attributed to the "blinding" effect of the sun in his
> head. Presumably the mask actually served a double purpose of
> disguising Magnus' identity and blocking telepathic scans.
And that possibility was made evident to all readers when Quentin made
his own helmet based off of Magneto's design.
> NEW X-MEN #136: Xorn slaughters a bunch of U-Men - entirely out of
> character for the pacifist. Angel finds him in the aftermath. Xorn's
> comment is that "Sometimes the teacher must leave to make room for
> learning," which in retrospect may refer to him dropping his persona.
> Xorn then tells Angel that "this will be our secret." But why did Xorn
> want to keep it secret? Now we know.
It wasn't entirely a matter of keeping it secret. Even then the even
read like the emphasis was on Xorn getting a hook of some kind into Angel,
whether for good or for bad.
> Angel quietly acquiesces; as we saw this issue, Xorn has extended some
> sort of mental control over the Special Class, by hijacking Martha's
> telepathy. ("Martha says we have to do what Mister Xorn says!",
> according to Ernst. Martha, of course, is hooked up to a machine and
> therefore at Magneto's mercy...)
I don't think it is mental control via Martha. I think it is just
control. Most of the Special Class likely feel themselves to have bonded
with Xorn, and are thus willing to do what he says. Martha herself is
quite likely not the happiest camper in existence, and he likely could
think the proper thoughts towards her to get her on his side.
Angel is likely the only person who might knowingly go against Xorn.
But Angel knows the 'secret' from the camping trip. Angel knows that if
Xorn sees a need to do it, he will kill plenty of people fast, and will
use death as a tool. He has Angel under his control because she likely
fears him from that time onwards.
> The Beak, one of the Special Class under Xorn's influence, offers
> himself as the murderer but botches the confession. Is Magneto trying
> to throw the investigators off the scent?
Easier to believe Beak was simply trying to protect Angel, and did so
because of her.
And just for Magneto still being around... I did point out after the
destruction of Genosha story that the artwork showed the plane exploding
before it hit Magneto's tower, though I also raised the issue whether it
was simply an art mistake, or Quitely's quality level, or the intention
that Magneto had actually protected himself. Throwing on his helmet would
cause Xavier to not be able to find him, and he could play dead until
whenever he wanted to reappear. (Since they never said they found a body,
and fooling Xavier was always a possibility.)
coondawg
"Paul O'Brien" <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:zNJG7oXhxQY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...
> In message <110920031943198865%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>, lavar78
> <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> writes
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> >As a shot in the dark, that dialogue makes me wonder if Quentin isn't
> >helping Xorn and/or Martha control the special class. Unlikely, but
> >still.
>
> Nope. Xavier and the Beast summon Xorn to try and save Quentin from
> dying. Of course, Quentin's illness has nothing to do with nanotech, so
> there's nothing Xorn can do about it. So he makes up this gibberish
> about Quentin moving on to another phase of his life cycle, as an excuse
> for why he shouldn't use his oh-so-powerful healing abilities.
>
> Quentin's dead. Xorn was lying and the X-Men fell for it.
>
> >I don't know about this one. It makes sense, but I hate it when the
> >"good guys" aren't forced to take full responsibility for their actions
> >(Scott with Maddie, Xavier as Onslaught, etc.).
>
> It wouldn't get Scott off the hook, only Emma. And in any event it's
> not clear that the key necessarily did anything more than put the idea
> into her mind.
>
> --
> Paul O'Brien
>
ok, i'll buy it all (readily actually, great recap!) but....
in 2001 there is fear that Xorn is about to become a black hole killing
himself etc. . .now mags could fake some aspects of the
gravity-collapes-scientific whatchamawhosis, but does it fit your plot line?
just want to hear your input on it.
Graeme
<snip>
SPOILER SPACE
Thanks for the recap, Paul. Without having read #146 (waiting for the TPB,
and all that), though, it still leaves me feeling somewhat dissatisfied for
reasons I'm having trouble pinning down.
Perhaps it's the elaborate nature of the deception and the relatively short
interval between Magneto's disappearance in Genosha and "Xorn's" appearance
in China (at least to my recollection - it's been a few months since I've
read those issues), but more likely I'm just disappointed with Morrison's
handling of the revelation.
While it's true that with the virtue of hindsight many examples of Xorn's
powers can be seen as clever deceptions on Magneto's part, they were only
successful at misleading the readers because the nature and scope of Xorn's
powers remained poorly defined to the readers through most of his
appearances. I would have expected the X-Men themselves to be more aware of
Xorn's capabilities, though, and to have noticed inconsistencies in his
behaviour and powers that would have alerted them that something was wrong,
and for something of this to have shown up in the comics themselves. The
X-Men accepted Xorn's behaviour and explanations at face value, which made
me less inclined to question things that struck me as odd.
I've always considered Xorn to be less benign than the X-Men believed at
best, and a potential threat from within at worst, so the latest turn of
events isn't completely surprising or shocking to me. I suspect I may have
enjoyed Xorn's betrayal more if it had been simply Xorn, rather than Magneto
acting in a way that (to me) doesn't seem to fit right with his character.
I admit I'm disappointed with the manner of Magneto's return - it sounds
like a flashback to a more simplistic era of comics-writing, where villains
would be unmasked in an almost Scooby-Doo like fashion.
Still, congratulations must go to Morrison and Marvel (not to mention
Claremont and Austen, who presumably were also aware of this) for keeping
the secret safe for so long.
Graeme
--
http://members.optusnet.com.au/graeme
"I stayed up all night playing poker with tarot cards.
I got a full house and four people died." - Steve Wright.
Marc-Oliver Frisch
: Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
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: So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
: Let's take a look.
Looks like a fine piece of work, both from you and Morrison.
And if my nose hasn't left me entirely, this shouldn't be the only big retbomb
("retroactive bombshell" (c) 2003 Me) he's going to drop. I have to admit that this one
caught me utterly by surprise, though.
At any rate, Morrison's proven that you can trust him to have thought things through. For
example, the reason why the "description" of Xorn's powers always sounded like horseshit
is a simple one: It actually IS horseshit! This even explains why Xorn wasn't at hand to
heal any wounded people over in UNCANNY X-MEN.
Now, I'll have to wait another two or three weeks until I get the damn comic...
--
Marc-Oliver Frisch
Dersc...@hotmail.com
Logic is the poor man's fantasy.
--
[Please note: This is a Usenet message, originally posted to the rec.arts.comics.* groups.
If you see it in a moderated or censored forum, it was copied there without my consent.]
Del
>In message <110920031943198865%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>, lavar78
><lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> writes
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>>
>>As a shot in the dark, that dialogue makes me wonder if Quentin isn't
>>helping Xorn and/or Martha control the special class. Unlikely, but
>>still.
>
>Nope. Xavier and the Beast summon Xorn to try and save Quentin from
>dying. Of course, Quentin's illness has nothing to do with nanotech,
>so there's nothing Xorn can do about it. So he makes up this gibberish
>about Quentin moving on to another phase of his life cycle, as an
>excuse for why he shouldn't use his oh-so-powerful healing abilities.
>
>Quentin's dead. Xorn was lying and the X-Men fell for it.
>
>>I don't know about this one. It makes sense, but I hate it when the
>>"good guys" aren't forced to take full responsibility for their actions
>>(Scott with Maddie, Xavier as Onslaught, etc.).
>
>It wouldn't get Scott off the hook, only Emma. And in any event it's
>not clear that the key necessarily did anything more than put the idea
>into her mind.
Additionally, perhaps since I don't have the actual issue, but when Esme
left the school, people noticed that the car she left in had no driver.
Some people thought then that it might be Magneto, but it was naturally
dismissed out of hand.
--
"Curiouser"
Del
lavar78
<pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <110920031943198865%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>, lavar78
> <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> writes
>
> SPOILERS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >As a shot in the dark, that dialogue makes me wonder if Quentin isn't
> >helping Xorn and/or Martha control the special class. Unlikely, but
> >still.
>
> Nope. Xavier and the Beast summon Xorn to try and save Quentin from
> dying. Of course, Quentin's illness has nothing to do with nanotech, so
> there's nothing Xorn can do about it. So he makes up this gibberish
> about Quentin moving on to another phase of his life cycle, as an excuse
> for why he shouldn't use his oh-so-powerful healing abilities.
>
Well, that certainly makes the most sense, but I wonder. Looking back
at the issue, I'm sure Quentin's words ("What if we were both wrong,
Professor X...and it wasn't humans to blame at all? What if the real
enemy... was inside... all along?") are clues to the existence of a
traitor. I guess he was going for double meaning and Quentin *didn't*
know about Magnus. OTOH, it almost seems like Xorn is trying to
distract the others from what Quentin is saying.
> Quentin's dead. Xorn was lying and the X-Men fell for it.
>
Yeah, that's probably it. More importantly, we fell for it. Xorn has
said a lot of questionable things that I've never really questioned
(well, until Austen beat me over the head with a
Xorn-is-more-than-he-seems stick). It's a credit to Morrison that
Xorn's slaughter of all those people set off less flags than his verbal
attack on Annie.
So, the question I've been wondering since I found out: why didn't
Logan know? What good are heightened senses if you can't smell
Magneto? Furthermore, why didn't Jean know if she is really using the
Phoenix force?
--
/lavar78
lavar78
Bissette <bai...@coastalnet.com> wrote:
> Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in
> news:G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk:
>
> > Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
> >
> >
> > SPOILERS
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
> > Let's take a look.
> >
> > NEW X-MEN #122: After that, Xorn is packed off to a monastery "for
> > healing." Cyclops picks him up in New X-Men #122 to help in the fight
> > with Cassandra Nova. This is where he suddenly develops healing powers,
> > despite that having nothing whatsoever to do with the "sun in the head"
> > concept.
>
> Doesn't he heal the bird here, before going off with Scott? I remember
> the scene, but not the details.
>
> His later healing uses the nanosentinels that Cassandra spread amongst
> the X-Men. So how did he heal the bird? Was the bird just wounded enough
> that a rather strong Magneto could do it within his own powers, or perhaps
> Nova had used nanosentinels earlier?
I can answer this one: he never heals the bird. The guy who leads
Scott to Xorn says, "The bird was dead...I saw it die... But he took it
in his hands and..." Then, we see a bird (which is glowing) hovering
above Xorn's hands. In the next panel, it flies away. Anyone want to
explain the glow? Paul?
--
/lavar78
R. Tang
Metallic sparklers? From metallic dust? 'Cause....just because the
bird is hovering doesn't mean it's alive.....
--
-
-Roger Tang, gwan...@u.washington.edu, Artistic Director PC Theatre
- Editor, Asian American Theatre Revue [NEW URL][Yes, it IS new]
- http://www.aatrevue.com
Scott Dubin
> 4. TELEPATHIC ADULTERY. Hold on... telepathic adultery? Magneto was
> responsible for Scott and Emma's relationship? Ludicrous, I hear you
> cry!
>
> But no.
>
> Scott and Emma's adultery subplot started in... NEW X-MEN 2001, Xorn's
> first appearance. Emma is given a key which is supposedly the key to
> Xorn's cell, but which we now know must have been created by Magneto as
> part of the charade. Cyclops asks her to read it telepathically for
> information. Emma replies "I'll try, but I hope you all realize this
> could take hour upon tedious hour..."
>
> To her immense surprise, she is instead bombarded with overpowering
> images of Xorn's supposed origin story in the very next panel, and
> doesn't even get to finish her sentence. Emma finds exposure to
> Magneto's poisoned key so unpleasant that she collapses and then
> switches to diamond form in order to turn off her telepathic powers.
>
> That night (and a mere two pages later), Emma turns up at Scott's room
> wearing an evening gown and holding champagne. "I couldn't sleep after
> the traumas of the day," she says.
>
> The key was clearly set up to deceive telepaths. Did it also poison
> Emma's mind and put the idea of the affair into her head? Apparently
> so...
I don't buy this one. It's before Jean became the Phoenix again, so
there'd be no real reason to target Cyclops or Jean specifically.
Furthermore, it's completely in character for Emma to try to seduce
Scott, it's not like she was acting strangely. Also, it's just silly.
Also, if her mind was really poisoned, wouldn't Jean have known as a
result of the whole mental rape bit?
Terrafamilia
Jeremy Henderson
<lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> spake unto us thusly:
>In article <G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk>, Paul O'Brien
><pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
>>
>>
>> SPOILERS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
>> Let's take a look.
>>
>> Xorn's first line of dialogue - in English, even though nobody should be
>> able to telepathically teach him the language - is this:-
>>
>> "I could have built heaven on earth, if only they'd let me. I could
>> have laid the foundation stones of paradise here on earth." Entirely
>> consistent with Magneto's view of himself.
>>
>I totally forgot about those lines.
>
>> Xorn's fake prison was called Feng Tu. When asked about this name, Emma
>> Frost replies "It's from mythology."
>>
>Do we know what it means?
Basically, in Chinese mythology it's the capital of Hell. Consistent
with Xorn's cover story, but not really relevant to Magneto.
_______________________________
"You can dream the American Dream
But you sleep with the lights on
And wake up with a scream
You can hope against hope
That nothing will change
Grab a hold of that fistful of rain"
Warren Zevon, 1947-2003
Jeremy Henderson
<Dersc...@hotmail.com> spake unto us thusly:
>Paul O'Brien wrote:
>
>: Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
>:
>:
>: SPOILERS
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>:
>: So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
>: Let's take a look.
>
>Looks like a fine piece of work, both from you and Morrison.
>
>And if my nose hasn't left me entirely, this shouldn't be the only big retbomb
>("retroactive bombshell" (c) 2003 Me) he's going to drop. I have to admit that this one
>caught me utterly by surprise, though.
>
>At any rate, Morrison's proven that you can trust him to have thought things through. For
>example, the reason why the "description" of Xorn's powers always sounded like horseshit
>is a simple one: It actually IS horseshit! This even explains why Xorn wasn't at hand to
>heal any wounded people over in UNCANNY X-MEN.
>
>Now, I'll have to wait another two or three weeks until I get the damn comic...
I succumbed to the spoilers as well, and haven't read the issue yet.
What I'm wondering is, how far in advance did Magneto have this
planned? It does seem awfully elaborate for him to have come up with
this whole plan on a whim after Genosha was destroyed.
I'm now wondering whether he was somehow behind Cassandra Nova and the
destruction of Genosha himself, though killing 16 million mutants
would hardly be in character for him.
Nick
> >Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
> >
> >
> >SPOILERS
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous
> >appearances?
>
> Excellent recap. The story was all there.
>
Indeed. I stand corrected, very nice job Paul.
Nick.
Scott Dubin
>
> > Quentin's dead. Xorn was lying and the X-Men fell for it.
> >
> Yeah, that's probably it. More importantly, we fell for it. Xorn has
> said a lot of questionable things that I've never really questioned
> (well, until Austen beat me over the head with a
> Xorn-is-more-than-he-seems stick). It's a credit to Morrison that
> Xorn's slaughter of all those people set off less flags than his verbal
> attack on Annie.
>
> So, the question I've been wondering since I found out: why didn't
> Logan know? What good are heightened senses if you can't smell
> Magneto?
Logan isn't currently written as having a sense of smell that can
track things. <shrug>
Furthermore, why didn't Jean know if she is really using the
> Phoenix force?
Having the Phoenix force doesn't mean she's omniscient. Furthermore,
the Phoenix's motivation has yet to be seen.
BlakGard
>>
>>
>> SPOILERS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
>> Let's take a look.
>>
>> Xorn's first line of dialogue - in English, even though nobody should be
>> able to telepathically teach him the language - is this:-
>>
>> "I could have built heaven on earth, if only they'd let me. I could
>> have laid the foundation stones of paradise here on earth." Entirely
>> consistent with Magneto's view of himself.
>
> I totally forgot about those lines.
>
>> Xorn's fake prison was called Feng Tu. When asked about this name, Emma
>> Frost replies "It's from mythology."
>
> Do we know what it means?
Basically: Hell, however, not the typical western version.
It was the afterlife place where the Yama Kings ruled. There were three bridges
to enter: a gold one, a silver one, and a wooden one. The gold was reserved for
gods and demigods; the silver was for the righteous and just, the wooden was
for the souls of the damned. You see, the wooden bridge was rickety and had
no railing; those who fell off were torn apart by snakes and dogs below.
-=[ The BlakGard ]=-
"Somewhere there's danger;
somewhere there's injustice,
and somewhere else the tea is getting cold!"
Steve-o Stonebraker
> I can answer this one: he never heals the bird. The guy who leads
> Scott to Xorn says, "The bird was dead...I saw it die... But he took it
> in his hands and..." Then, we see a bird (which is glowing) hovering
> above Xorn's hands. In the next panel, it flies away. Anyone want to
> explain the glow? Paul?
Maybe somebody writing has *finally* realized that complete mastery of
electromagnetism includes the ability to create light?
--Steve-o
--
Steve Stonebraker | http://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~sstoneb/
sst...@yahoo.com | Transformers, astrophysics, comics, games, cartoons.
BlakGard
> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
>
> SPOILERS
[snip]
OMG! That's brilliant!
Janus
news:slrnbm2p53....@campbell.mps.ohio-state.edu:
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:35:17 -0400, lavar78 wrote:
>> I can answer this one: he never heals the bird. The guy who leads
>> Scott to Xorn says, "The bird was dead...I saw it die... But he took
>> it in his hands and..." Then, we see a bird (which is glowing)
>> hovering above Xorn's hands. In the next panel, it flies away.
>> Anyone want to explain the glow? Paul?
>
> Maybe somebody writing has *finally* realized that complete mastery of
> electromagnetism includes the ability to create light?
>
> --Steve-o
Scott Lobdell showed this in Uncanny X-men 393, as Magneto battled
Dazzler. Come to think of it, could Morrison be wrapping up Magneto's
actions in that arc? It was the most recent battle between Magnus and
the X-men. That arc left too many unresolved plots, imo.
--
The head of the English department asked me, "Do you read any crap?"
And I said, no, in that insufferable high school manner, no doubt.
And he said, "You need to read more crap."
The point was to read more for entertainment and for fun.
GAIL SIMONE
ChuckLesnar420
"Paul O'Brien" <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...
> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
>
>
> SPOILERS
>
>
i had thought of as a bit fishy and some I had missed entirely.
The Phoenix
>Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> writes
>>In message <110920031943198865%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>, lavar78
>><lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> writes
>>
>>SPOILERS
>Additionally, perhaps since I don't have the actual issue, but when Esme
>left the school, people noticed that the car she left in had no driver.
>Some people thought then that it might be Magneto, but it was naturally
>dismissed out of hand.
And, as remiss as I am to mention this, Morrison's version of Sage's 'computer
mind' and what happens to it this issue...well, we all know the fun magnets can
have with a computer.
J
IRC: Foenix/Kinetix | Jason Bourgeois | Foe...@subreality.com
Unofficial torch-lighter of the Church of X-Books
Official Keeper of XBooks Future Histories and Rachel Summers Flame
"I'm me. That's all I need to be." ~ Brucha S. Meyers
Paul O'Brien
<gra...@optushome.sodoff.com.au> writes
>
>Perhaps it's the elaborate nature of the deception and the relatively
>short interval between
It's only a short interval in terms of publishing schedule. In story
terms, that period includes a very, very lengthy gap where Cassandra
exposes the X-Men, the X-Men go public, the X-Men open up and staff at
least four X-Corp offices, and the school is opened with several hundred
pupils between issues.
Paul O'Brien
Frisch <Dersc...@hotmail.com> writes
SPOILERS
>This even explains why Xorn wasn't at hand to heal any wounded people
>over in UNCANNY X-MEN.
Yes, although I think it's regrettable that Austen was doing plots at
the same time that were practically guaranteed to make people ask why he
wasn't using Xorn.
Paul O'Brien
Henderson <hel...@tampabay.rr.com> writes
SPOILERS
>
>I'm now wondering whether he was somehow behind Cassandra Nova and the
>destruction of Genosha himself, though killing 16 million mutants
>would hardly be in character for him.
Well, he does describe them as "my" nano-Sentinels. Was he behind
Cassandra?
The Weapon Plus headquarters is his base, and none of the Weapon Plus
characters are susceptible to telepathic scans... was he behind that?
Weapon Plus and the U-Men were both, inexplicably, fronted by characters
called "Sublime" - despite having completely contrary objectives. Is it
the same guy? Are the U-Men a set-up as well, or at least a hoax
against their own members?
The answer is quite conceivably "yes" to all three. And if so, by my
reckoning that would make Magneto responsible for every single story in
Grant's run.
Paul O'Brien
SPOILERS
Morrison's original proposal for New X-Men appears at the back of the
first hardback. According to posts on other boards, the section about
Xorn contains an entire paragraph which is blacked out and labelled
"Censored."
Pradera
scribbled loosely:
>> I can answer this one: he never heals the bird. The guy who leads
>> Scott to Xorn says, "The bird was dead...I saw it die... But he took
it
>> in his hands and..." Then, we see a bird (which is glowing) hovering
>> above Xorn's hands. In the next panel, it flies away. Anyone want to
>> explain the glow? Paul?
>
> Maybe somebody writing has *finally* realized that complete mastery of
> electromagnetism includes the ability to create light?
This would explain last panels of the annual, when Xorn takes of his
helmet and shines with his 'star-head' openly... it was something that
bugged me most about the X is M theory...
--
Pradera
---
'Ronald Reagan once said that a great leader is simply an
average man who surrounds himself with the best.
That's why I never vote Republican'
Scott Summers, 'Cyclops'
http://www.pradera-castle.prv.pl/
http://www.tolkien-gen.prv.pl/
Pradera
loosely:
>>
>>> Xorn's fake prison was called Feng Tu. When asked about this name,
>>> Emma Frost replies "It's from mythology."
>>>
>>Do we know what it means?
>
> Basically, in Chinese mythology it's the capital of Hell. Consistent
> with Xorn's cover story, but not really relevant to Magneto.
Well, it is a place where you would go after you _die_...
Bonehammer
> SPOILER SPACE
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks for the recap, Paul. Without having read #146 (waiting for the TPB,
> and all that), though, it still leaves me feeling somewhat dissatisfied for
> reasons I'm having trouble pinning down.
I thoroughly agree with you. My compliments to Paul for his
exceptional mining work.
> Still, congratulations must go to Morrison and Marvel (not to mention
> Claremont and Austen, who presumably were also aware of this) for keeping
> the secret safe for so long.
Actually, Claremont sort of poked us in the ribs with Beast's offhand
comment about Khan's "...*Magneto moment*. The most certain the death,
the more assured the upcoming resurrection."
IIRC Claremont had been denied the use of Xorn for his storyline, so
there *has* to have been communication going around between him and
Morrison...
Ciao
Bonehammer
lavar78
Dubin <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> lavar78 <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
> news:<110920032116475323%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>...
>
> >
> > > Quentin's dead. Xorn was lying and the X-Men fell for it.
> > >
> > Yeah, that's probably it. More importantly, we fell for it. Xorn has
> > said a lot of questionable things that I've never really questioned
> > (well, until Austen beat me over the head with a
> > Xorn-is-more-than-he-seems stick). It's a credit to Morrison that
> > Xorn's slaughter of all those people set off less flags than his verbal
> > attack on Annie.
> >
> > So, the question I've been wondering since I found out: why didn't
> > Logan know? What good are heightened senses if you can't smell
> > Magneto?
>
> Logan isn't currently written as having a sense of smell that can
> track things. <shrug>
>
Come again? Is this something that happened in one of those numerous
Wolverine books? Besides, I don't think he needs to be able to track.
Shouldn't he realize Xorn has a familiar smell?
> Furthermore, why didn't Jean know if she is really using the
> > Phoenix force?
>
> Having the Phoenix force doesn't mean she's omniscient. Furthermore,
> the Phoenix's motivation has yet to be seen.
Phoenix is omniscient, but darn close to it. Still, point taken.
--
/lavar78
lavar78
Henderson <hel...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:43:19 -0400, lavar78
> <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> spake unto us thusly:
>
> >In article <G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk>, Paul O'Brien
> ><pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
> >>
> >>
> >> SPOILERS
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
> >> Let's take a look.
> >>
> >> Xorn's first line of dialogue - in English, even though nobody should be
> >> able to telepathically teach him the language - is this:-
> >>
> >> "I could have built heaven on earth, if only they'd let me. I could
> >> have laid the foundation stones of paradise here on earth." Entirely
> >> consistent with Magneto's view of himself.
> >>
> >I totally forgot about those lines.
> >
> >> Xorn's fake prison was called Feng Tu. When asked about this name, Emma
> >> Frost replies "It's from mythology."
> >>
> >Do we know what it means?
>
> Basically, in Chinese mythology it's the capital of Hell. Consistent
> with Xorn's cover story, but not really relevant to Magneto.
Thanks. I asked the question before I re-read the annual (where it's
explained).
--
/lavar78
lavar78
<pra...@pradera.prv.pl> wrote:
> On 12 wrz 2003, Steve-o Stonebraker <sst...@campbell.mps.ohio-state.edu>
> scribbled loosely:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >> I can answer this one: he never heals the bird. The guy who leads
> >> Scott to Xorn says, "The bird was dead...I saw it die... But he took
> it
> >> in his hands and..." Then, we see a bird (which is glowing) hovering
> >> above Xorn's hands. In the next panel, it flies away. Anyone want to
> >> explain the glow? Paul?
> >
> > Maybe somebody writing has *finally* realized that complete mastery of
> > electromagnetism includes the ability to create light?
>
> This would explain last panels of the annual, when Xorn takes of his
> helmet and shines with his 'star-head' openly... it was something that
> bugged me most about the X is M theory...
It also explains why Xorn's head actually glows to much under the mask.
Good catch, Steve. I'm obviously slipping in my "old age."
--
/lavar78
Terrafamilia
Paul O'Brien wrote:
> In message <3gj2mvohqod9uum5b...@4ax.com>, Jeremy
> Henderson <hel...@tampabay.rr.com> writes
>
> SPOILERS
>
> >
> >I'm now wondering whether he was somehow behind Cassandra Nova and the
> >destruction of Genosha himself, though killing 16 million mutants
> >would hardly be in character for him.
>
> Well, he does describe them as "my" nano-Sentinels. Was he behind
> Cassandra?
>
> The Weapon Plus headquarters is his base, and none of the Weapon Plus
> characters are susceptible to telepathic scans... was he behind that?
>
> Weapon Plus and the U-Men were both, inexplicably, fronted by characters
> called "Sublime" - despite having completely contrary objectives. Is it
> the same guy? Are the U-Men a set-up as well, or at least a hoax
> against their own members?
>
> The answer is quite conceivably "yes" to all three. And if so, by my
> reckoning that would make Magneto responsible for every single story in
> Grant's run.
That would set Mags into the Red Skull role during Gru's run were the Skull
was behind or had his finger in most all the subversive organizations
circling around the Capt. A. universe. Interesting comparison that.
Ciao,
Terrafamilia
Steve-o Stonebraker
> Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in
> news:G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk:
>
>> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
>>
>>
>> SPOILERS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> mind - which he attributed to the "blinding" effect of the sun in his
>> head. Presumably the mask actually served a double purpose of
>> disguising Magnus' identity and blocking telepathic scans.
>
> And that possibility was made evident to all readers when Quentin made
> his own helmet based off of Magneto's design.
Okay, here's my question. I have absolutely no memory of Magneto's
helment being anything besides ornamental until the movie came out and
said it blocked telepathy. ULTIMATE X-MEN does the same, as I recall, and
so does "X-Men: Evolution", I think. So... was this idea originated by
the movie and then retconned into the main continuity, or is it something
that was there in the comics and they just never talked about much?
Jim Cannon
>
> SPOILERS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The answer is quite conceivably "yes" to all three. And if so, by my
> reckoning that would make Magneto responsible for every single story in
> Grant's run.
Which is utterly mad and utterly brilliant. I'd follow Grant Morrison
into the lungs of hell.
I'd also like to thank you for the recap, Paul. Very informative.
Jim Cannon
Paul O'Brien
SPOILERS
If Magneto IS behind everything, I wonder whether this is going to lead
to some explanation of what the hell Emma Frost was doing in Genosha at
the beginning of Morrison's run. Sending her there seemed completely
pointless at the time... but it now has the effect of putting her under
Magneto's control and access for a lengthy period before she got
anywhere near the X-Men.
Jeremy Henderson
<sst...@campbell.mps.ohio-state.edu> spake unto us thusly:
>On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:26:47 GMT, Billy Bissette wrote:
>> Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in
>> news:G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk:
>>
>>> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
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>>> Note also that Xorn establishes in that issue that Xavier can't read his
>>> mind - which he attributed to the "blinding" effect of the sun in his
>>> head. Presumably the mask actually served a double purpose of
>>> disguising Magnus' identity and blocking telepathic scans.
>>
>> And that possibility was made evident to all readers when Quentin made
>> his own helmet based off of Magneto's design.
>
>Okay, here's my question. I have absolutely no memory of Magneto's
>helment being anything besides ornamental until the movie came out and
>said it blocked telepathy. ULTIMATE X-MEN does the same, as I recall, and
>so does "X-Men: Evolution", I think. So... was this idea originated by
>the movie and then retconned into the main continuity, or is it something
>that was there in the comics and they just never talked about much?
It's been that way as far back as I can remember, and is mentioned in
Magneto's OHOTMUDE entry. It also had a device built into it that gave
him low level telepathic abilities. In the X-Men vs. Avengers mini
from the 80's he used it to influence one of the judges at his trial
and get himself acquitted.
Shawn H
: Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
: SPOILERS
: The key was clearly set up to deceive telepaths. Did it also poison
: Emma's mind and put the idea of the affair into her head? Apparently
: so...
Paul, I think you should take your considerable analytical skills over to
Uncanny next and look at Lorna's seeming "possession" by Magneto. Of
course Austen, with his usual lack of subtlety, pretty much gives away the
ghost in the current issue, having Xorn be so clearly annoyed with
"racist" Annie. Thank Goodness I read New before Uncanny (which I had
luckily been putting off) this week.
There must be something to her behaviour since "Ambient Magnetic Fields"
that adds up, despite Austen's lurid dips into soapy sexual jealousy. At
least the current issue did seem to remember her role in FabNic's Dark
Seduction.
And what about Esme? You've left her completely out of your Riot
assessment, but surely she has some bearing on the Xorn situation as well,
even though she handily avoided the "special" class of the new Brotherhood
of Evil?
How nefarious of Grant. While Cassandra was rotting the team from within
as Xavier, Magnuss was subverting the team from within as Xorn. So the
ridiculously powered Xorn was only ever an assumed persona, and the
indifferently and unattractively powered special class are all ideally
more suited (even moreso than Quire's little riot act) for destruction
than heroism.
Evil.
Gleefully so.
Shawn
Shawn H
:>
:>Perhaps it's the elaborate nature of the deception and the relatively
:>short interval between
: [Redacted for spoilers]
: It's only a short interval in terms of publishing schedule. In story
: terms, that period includes a very, very lengthy gap where Cassandra
: exposes the X-Men, the X-Men go public, the X-Men open up and staff at
: least four X-Corp offices, and the school is opened with several hundred
: pupils between issues.
Exactly. The gap between books is not always a month inside them.
shawn
Shawn H
: Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in
: news:G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk:
:> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
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:> sort of mental control over the Special Class, by hijacking Martha's
:> telepathy. ("Martha says we have to do what Mister Xorn says!",
:> according to Ernst. Martha, of course, is hooked up to a machine and
:> therefore at Magneto's mercy...)
: I don't think it is mental control via Martha. I think it is just
: control. Most of the Special Class likely feel themselves to have bonded
: with Xorn, and are thus willing to do what he says. Martha herself is
: quite likely not the happiest camper in existence, and he likely could
: think the proper thoughts towards her to get her on his side.
I think it likely that Martha is aiding Mags of her own free will. She was
sort of collaborating with the humanimals or whatever those guys were, and
may very well feel at this point that mutants should rule humans for the
betterment of all parties. I feel sorry for her little lackey/interpreter,
though.
: Angel is likely the only person who might knowingly go against Xorn.
: But Angel knows the 'secret' from the camping trip. Angel knows that if
: Xorn sees a need to do it, he will kill plenty of people fast, and will
: use death as a tool. He has Angel under his control because she likely
: fears him from that time onwards.
It could be more of a deliberate decision than just a fearful one, though.
She never accepted Emma's attitude or influence, seeing her apparently as
deluded for her stance as good girl with bad girl attitude. She only
helped the Cuckoos against the Imperial Guard out of self-preservation and
practicality. And she now has a mutant brood that the world will revile to
protect; she may see Mags as her best bet to keep her children safe.
:> The Beak, one of the Special Class under Xorn's influence, offers
:> himself as the murderer but botches the confession. Is Magneto trying
:> to throw the investigators off the scent?
: Easier to believe Beak was simply trying to protect Angel, and did so
: because of her.
Beak honestly loves Angel. And his kiddies. Mags has his new Wanda and
Pietro, tied perhaps more inextricably to him than his own kids ever were.
Shawn
Shawn H
: On Fri, 12 Sep 2003 00:26:47 GMT, Billy Bissette wrote:
:> Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in
:> news:G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk:
:>
:>> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
:>>
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:>> Note also that Xorn establishes in that issue that Xavier can't read his
:>> mind - which he attributed to the "blinding" effect of the sun in his
:>> head. Presumably the mask actually served a double purpose of
:>> disguising Magnus' identity and blocking telepathic scans.
:>
:> And that possibility was made evident to all readers when Quentin made
:> his own helmet based off of Magneto's design.
: Okay, here's my question. I have absolutely no memory of Magneto's
: helment being anything besides ornamental until the movie came out and
: said it blocked telepathy. ULTIMATE X-MEN does the same, as I recall, and
: so does "X-Men: Evolution", I think. So... was this idea originated by
: the movie and then retconned into the main continuity, or is it something
: that was there in the comics and they just never talked about much?
Well, I do know it definitely worked that way for Juggernaut. But the
X-men did strive to remove his helmet in his volcanic base, before getting
lost in the Savage Land.
Shawn
Shawn H
: In article <G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk>, Paul O'Brien
: <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
:> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
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:> When Xorn reveals that the spacecraft is about to blow up, his dialogue
:> is (emphasis added): "This superdestroyer machine is about to commit
:> suicide... I can hear its ELECTROMAGNETIC alarms."
:>
: I'm ashamed that didn't set off *any* flags.
But why should it; Magneto's cover was to impersonate someone with very
similar powers, just so he could still use his when needed.
:> Xorn then tells Angel that "this will be our secret." But why did Xorn
:> want to keep it secret? Now we know.
:>
: Wow. I think I was blinded by my disdain for Xorn.
Whereas I thought he was just being "hardcore X-man" but trying to assuage
the worries of the youngsters.
Shawn
Shawn H
: Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:<G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk>...
:> 4. TELEPATHIC ADULTERY. Hold on... telepathic adultery? Magneto was
:> responsible for Scott and Emma's relationship? Ludicrous, I hear you
:> cry!
:>
:> But no.
:>
:> so...
: I don't buy this one. It's before Jean became the Phoenix again, so
: there'd be no real reason to target Cyclops or Jean specifically.
: Furthermore, it's completely in character for Emma to try to seduce
: Scott, it's not like she was acting strangely. Also, it's just silly.
Phoenix isn't the only threat to Mags. He takes ALL mutants, of whatever
power levels, very seriously. Scott and Jean, w/Xavier, represent the core
of the opposition to his dream, and always have. Best to keep the enemy
divided and conquered.
: Also, if her mind was really poisoned, wouldn't Jean have known as a
: result of the whole mental rape bit?
Maybe differentiating between all the muck going on in there wasn't what
she was focusing on. She very specifically wanted a motivation for Emma's
behaviour, but she expected it to be in personal life, not from an outside
force.
Shawn
Shawn H
:> Maybe somebody writing has *finally* realized that complete mastery of
:> electromagnetism includes the ability to create light?
: Scott Lobdell showed this in Uncanny X-men 393, as Magneto battled
: Dazzler. Come to think of it, could Morrison be wrapping up Magneto's
: actions in that arc? It was the most recent battle between Magnus and
: the X-men. That arc left too many unresolved plots, imo.
Well, he definitely is, or was that Austen in Uncanny. Someone was talking
this month about attempts to heal Mags' severed spine after the events of
that arc.
shawn
Jim Connick
"Paul O'Brien" <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...
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: So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
: Let's take a look.
: Xorn was, presumably, the man who pointed a gun at Sage's back. She
: described him as male and "at least six foot two, possibly taller".
: According to the Official Handbook, Magneto's height is... six foot two.
Xorn also has 6'2 listed as his official height, in case anyone was
wondering.
Excellent work Paul.
Paul O'Brien
<shill...@fas.harvard.edu> writes
>
>Paul, I think you should take your considerable analytical skills over
>to Uncanny next and look at Lorna's seeming "possession" by Magneto.
It occurred to me a while back that a very obvious explanation for
Lorna's behaviour would be possession by Magneto's ghost after her phase
of insanity in Genosha.
Of course, none of this alters the fact that the character as written by
Austen is painfully boring.
Jim Connick
: One other thing worth mentioning for anyone still in doubt.
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: Morrison's original proposal for New X-Men appears at the back of the
: first hardback. According to posts on other boards, the section about
: Xorn contains an entire paragraph which is blacked out and labelled
: "Censored."
From the Morrison Manifesto, immediatly preceeding the blacked out censored
section :
"Who knows what lies beneath the mask of Experiment X? A secret connected to
the X-Men's past? Or future? Will the self styled Man From Room X turn out
to be hiding more than just his face? And will Wolverine's distrust be
justified?"
Stefan
> In article <887734a2.03091...@posting.google.com>, Scott
> Dubin <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > lavar78 <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
> > news:<110920032116475323%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>...
> >
> > >
> > > > Quentin's dead. Xorn was lying and the X-Men fell for it.
> > > >
> > > Yeah, that's probably it. More importantly, we fell for it. Xorn has
> > > said a lot of questionable things that I've never really questioned
> > > (well, until Austen beat me over the head with a
> > > Xorn-is-more-than-he-seems stick). It's a credit to Morrison that
> > > Xorn's slaughter of all those people set off less flags than his
verbal
> > > attack on Annie.
> > >
> > > So, the question I've been wondering since I found out: why didn't
> > > Logan know? What good are heightened senses if you can't smell
> > > Magneto?
> >
> > Logan isn't currently written as having a sense of smell that can
> > track things. <shrug>
> >
> Come again? Is this something that happened in one of those numerous
> Wolverine books? Besides, I don't think he needs to be able to track.
> Shouldn't he realize Xorn has a familiar smell?
>
Maybe he was bathing in vinegar
Stefan
Scott Dubin
> In article <887734a2.03091...@posting.google.com>, Scott
> Dubin <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > lavar78 <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
> > news:<110920032116475323%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>...
> >
> > >
> > > > Quentin's dead. Xorn was lying and the X-Men fell for it.
> > > >
> > > Yeah, that's probably it. More importantly, we fell for it. Xorn has
> > > said a lot of questionable things that I've never really questioned
> > > (well, until Austen beat me over the head with a
> > > Xorn-is-more-than-he-seems stick). It's a credit to Morrison that
> > > Xorn's slaughter of all those people set off less flags than his verbal
> > > attack on Annie.
> > >
> > > So, the question I've been wondering since I found out: why didn't
> > > Logan know? What good are heightened senses if you can't smell
> > > Magneto?
> >
> > Logan isn't currently written as having a sense of smell that can
> > track things. <shrug>
> >
> Come again? Is this something that happened in one of those numerous
> Wolverine books?
No, I just mean Morrison hasn't written Wolverine as using his sense
of smell once, and I don't think Rucka has either.
Sorted magAZine
"lavar78" <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
> In article <887734a2.03091...@posting.google.com>, Scott
> Dubin <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > lavar78 <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
> > news:<110920032116475323%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>...
> >
> > >
> > > > Quentin's dead. Xorn was lying and the X-Men fell for it.
> > > >
> > > Yeah, that's probably it. More importantly, we fell for it. Xorn has
> > > said a lot of questionable things that I've never really questioned
> > > (well, until Austen beat me over the head with a
> > > Xorn-is-more-than-he-seems stick). It's a credit to Morrison that
> > > Xorn's slaughter of all those people set off less flags than his verbal
> > > attack on Annie.
> > >
> > > So, the question I've been wondering since I found out: why didn't
> > > Logan know? What good are heightened senses if you can't smell
> > > Magneto?
> >
> > Logan isn't currently written as having a sense of smell that can
> > track things. <shrug>
> >
> Come again? Is this something that happened in one of those numerous
> Wolverine books? Besides, I don't think he needs to be able to track.
> Shouldn't he realize Xorn has a familiar smell?
>
> > Furthermore, why didn't Jean know if she is really using the
> > > Phoenix force?
> >
> > Having the Phoenix force doesn't mean she's omniscient. Furthermore,
> > the Phoenix's motivation has yet to be seen.
>
> Phoenix is omniscient, but darn close to it. Still, point taken.
>
I'd say Phoenix has the potential to be omniscient, but to remain grounded has
to block most of that out (as Jean is used to doing anyway with her
telepathy).
D.
Sorted magAZine
"Shawn H" <shill...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote in message
news:bjss38$t1g$7...@news.fas.harvard.edu...
cares about Scott. Now, who knows what off-panel conversations Xorn may have
had with all those involved.
D.
Sorted magAZine
"Bonehammer" <boneha...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c22e31f9.03091...@posting.google.com...
column on his website):
http://www.grant-morrison.com/column.htm
There seems to be a running joke about Chris and Grant's other half.
D.
Brian Doyle
> In message <3gj2mvohqod9uum5b...@4ax.com>, Jeremy
> Henderson <hel...@tampabay.rr.com> writes
>
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> >I'm now wondering whether he was somehow behind Cassandra Nova and the
> >destruction of Genosha himself, though killing 16 million mutants
> >would hardly be in character for him.
>
> Well, he does describe them as "my" nano-Sentinels. Was he behind
> Cassandra?
I think it more likely he means he's reprogrammed them, so they no longer
function for Cassandra. They're under his control, so they're his _now_
> The answer is quite conceivably "yes" to all three. And if so, by my
> reckoning that would make Magneto responsible for every single story in
> Grant's run.
Intruiging idea, and just the sort of thing he'd pull too.
Shawn H
: "Shawn H" <shill...@fas.harvard.edu> wrote in message
: news:bjss38$t1g$7...@news.fas.harvard.edu...
:> Scott Dubin <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:
:> : Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
: news:<G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk>...
:> :> 4. TELEPATHIC ADULTERY. Hold on... telepathic adultery? Magneto was
:> :> responsible for Scott and Emma's relationship? Ludicrous, I hear you
:> :> cry!
:> :>
:> :> But no.
:> :>
:> :> so...
:> Maybe differentiating between all the muck going on in there wasn't what
:> she was focusing on. She very specifically wanted a motivation for Emma's
:> behaviour, but she expected it to be in personal life, not from an outside
:> force.
:>
: Nah, this is the one bit I don't buy, Emma's been written like she actually
: cares about Scott. Now, who knows what off-panel conversations Xorn may have
: had with all those involved.
Well, I don't even remember the psychic key, though Paul's analysis is
very convincing. I admit it's something you'd expect someone like Jean or
Charles (or Emma herself) to be able to do, but not something that would
be easy to do TO Emma. I do think the attraction for Scott was there; but
maybe the willingness to do it, to play with fire, was the inhibition that
Magneto somehow let down? IE, he didn't reprogram her brain, he just gave
her a very strong nudge in one direction.
Shawn
Stranger
> :> When Xorn reveals that the spacecraft is about to blow up, his dialogue
> :> is (emphasis added): "This superdestroyer machine is about to commit
> :> suicide... I can hear its ELECTROMAGNETIC alarms."
> :>
> : I'm ashamed that didn't set off *any* flags.
>
> But why should it; Magneto's cover was to impersonate someone with very
> similar powers, just so he could still use his when needed.
I also think that since Morrison tends to have his characters sprout out a
lot of gobbly-gook, having Xorn say something about "hearing electromagnetic
alarms" sounds just like all the other weird-ass sayings in that storyline.
--
Stranger: Impulse's #1 Fan
AKA Steely Hardcore Dan Nguyen
Patrick McClue
> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
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Great review! Just curious about something: Were there any clues about X=M
in Genosha? How do the electromagnetic ghosts and crazy Polaris fit into
this? Any ideas?
Patrick
KB
"lavar78" <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
news:120920030801241706%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom...
> In article <887734a2.03091...@posting.google.com>, Scott
> Dubin <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > lavar78 <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
> > news:<110920032116475323%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>...
> >
> > >
> > > > Quentin's dead. Xorn was lying and the X-Men fell for it.
> > > >
> > > Yeah, that's probably it. More importantly, we fell for it. Xorn has
> > > said a lot of questionable things that I've never really questioned
> > > (well, until Austen beat me over the head with a
> > > Xorn-is-more-than-he-seems stick). It's a credit to Morrison that
> > > Xorn's slaughter of all those people set off less flags than his
verbal
> > > attack on Annie.
> > >
> > > So, the question I've been wondering since I found out: why didn't
> > > Logan know? What good are heightened senses if you can't smell
> > > Magneto?
> >
> > Logan isn't currently written as having a sense of smell that can
> > track things. <shrug>
> >
> Come again? Is this something that happened in one of those numerous
> Wolverine books? Besides, I don't think he needs to be able to track.
> Shouldn't he realize Xorn has a familiar smell?
>
> > > Phoenix force?
> >
> > Having the Phoenix force doesn't mean she's omniscient. Furthermore,
> > the Phoenix's motivation has yet to be seen.
>
> Phoenix is omniscient, but darn close to it. Still, point taken.
>
Jean does have that bizarre line to Charles about "whatever happens will be
for the best."
KB
"Paul O'Brien" <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:G0YblwNniPY$Ew...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...
> Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
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> Let's take a look.
>
> written as a demonstration for John Sublime of the U-Men and so it's
> consistent with Magneto's claim to have falsified the whole thing. Ao
> Jun, the Chinese government agent who's present at the demo, is a mutant
> and is evidently in on the scam - he plants the clues that lead the
> X-Men there. (He was killed by a U-Man at the end of the issue, so
> we'll probably never know for sure.) The scheme was also trying to set
> up the U-Men, and Magneto would be opposed to them anyway.
>
> The flashback to Xorn being imprisoned is actually Emma Frost reading
> telepathic imprints from a key which, in retrospect, must have been
> planted by Magneto. The key is very, very important indeed, for reasons
> that I'll come back to.
>
> Xorn's first line of dialogue - in English, even though nobody should be
> able to telepathically teach him the language - is this:-
>
> "I could have built heaven on earth, if only they'd let me. I could
> have laid the foundation stones of paradise here on earth." Entirely
> consistent with Magneto's view of himself.
>
> Xorn's fake prison was called Feng Tu. When asked about this name, Emma
> Frost replies "It's from mythology."
>
> NEW X-MEN #122: After that, Xorn is packed off to a monastery "for
> healing." Cyclops picks him up in New X-Men #122 to help in the fight
> with Cassandra Nova. This is where he suddenly develops healing powers,
> despite that having nothing whatsoever to do with the "sun in the head"
> concept.
>
> NEW X-MEN #123: Xorn and Cyclops are knocked out by the Imperial Guard
> off panel without ever getting off the blocks.
>
> NEW X-MEN #124: Xorn and Cyclops spend this issue as prisoners aboard a
> Shi'ar craft. Of course, Magneto has a common interest in stopping
> Cassandra, so there's no logical problem with him siding with the X-Men
> here. Xorn dutifully plays naive throughout the story, and camps it up
> tremendously ("He [Scott] is NOT mad. Scott is my friend! WHAT IS THIS
> WORLD OF LIARS?!")
>
> They escape when Xorn knocks out G-Type of the Imperial Guard as a
> distraction; Scott attributes this to his suggestion to do
> something-or-other involving the "sun for a brain" gimmick, but what
> G-Type actually says is "My core is in flux. There is an unknown
> gravitational source interfering..."
>
> NEW X-MEN #125: As the fight continues, Xorn is shown to be affecting
> G-Type with energy waves from his hands, not his head. He goes on to
> save Lilandra, but then why wouldn't he? It's consistent with his
> cover, besides which he has no issue with Lilandra, who isn't human.
>
> When Xorn reveals that the spacecraft is about to blow up, his dialogue
> is (emphasis added): "This superdestroyer machine is about to commit
> suicide... I can hear its ELECTROMAGNETIC alarms."
>
> Cassandra's body is dying and Xavier has been downloaded into Jean's
> mind - and she's also dying, because of the nano-sentinel infection.
> Xorn pronounces Cassandra dead and says that there is nothing he can do
> about her. Cyclops protests that Xorn said he could "bring the
> Professor back" - and he was healing dead birds when we saw him in issue
> #123, so Scott's response isn't unreasonable.
>
> Xorn dodges the question somewhat. He replies "I can, but he is gone
> from that body and my true task is now clear to me. I'm hear to heal
> you [referring to Jean]." Xorn then "heals" everyone in the mansion by
> killing the Sentinel infestations in their body. ("There. The
> Sentinels in your bloodstream... they are dead now.") Of course,
> Magneto would have no problem with that, because they're metal
> creatures. Presumably this is where Magneto picked up the nanosentinels
> which he claims to have used to fix Xavier's nervous system - the
> mansion was overrun with them at the relevant time. Xorn then proceeds
> to help in the fight against Cassandra, but again, why wouldn't he?
>
> Issue #126 is the only time that Xorn the "healer" actually heals anyone
> - and it's from a disease involving nano-Sentinels. Every other time
> he's asked to heal someone from anything else, he makes up an excuse not
> to do it.
>
> NEW X-MEN #127: this is the Xorn solo story. As the penultimate page
> makes clear, the narration is a letter written by Xorn to Xavier, in
> character. Therefore, it's all lies and can be safely ignored. What
> remains is in character for Magneto. He goes to Chinatown in accordance
> with his cover story. He sees a teenage mutant who's unwell, and tries
> to help. When the mutant goes nuts (in an area shown to be heavily
> populated with other mutants), Magneto tries to calm him down. He
> regrets the boy's death. Strip away the narration, which we now know to
> be falsified, and the story makes perfect sense - albeit from a rather
> different light. The narration happily replaces a large chunk of the
> actual dialogue, so a lot of the time we're left with Xorn's highly
> dubious account of what was said.
>
> Note also that Xorn establishes in that issue that Xavier can't read his
> mind - which he attributed to the "blinding" effect of the sun in his
> head. Presumably the mask actually served a double purpose of
> disguising Magnus' identity and blocking telepathic scans.
>
> remains in character as they go off on their field trip over the next
> few issues.
>
> In issue #135, Xorn is able to light a campfire by... well, doing
> something with his head. We see it from behind and vaguely. Device in
> the helmet? All the other characters are standing behind him as well,
> incidentally.
>
> Meanwhile, back at the Mansion, the Riot is starting. Oddly, Xorn has
> chosen to get the hell out of the way and go on a camping trip instead.
> And just where was Quire getting his drugs from...?
>
> NEW X-MEN #136: Xorn slaughters a bunch of U-Men - entirely out of
> character for the pacifist. Angel finds him in the aftermath. Xorn's
> comment is that "Sometimes the teacher must leave to make room for
> learning," which in retrospect may refer to him dropping his persona.
> Xorn then tells Angel that "this will be our secret." But why did Xorn
> want to keep it secret? Now we know.
>
> sort of mental control over the Special Class, by hijacking Martha's
> telepathy. ("Martha says we have to do what Mister Xorn says!",
> according to Ernst. Martha, of course, is hooked up to a machine and
> therefore at Magneto's mercy...)
>
> nothing of note.
>
> NEW X-MEN #138: Xorn and the Beast head off to recapture Glob Herman.
> Now we know how Xorn was somehow able to move a bloody great cement
> mixer apparently using only his physical strength - it's made of metal.
>
> Later in the issue, when Quentin Quire is dying, Xavier summons Xorn to
> heal him. Xorn attends, but again makes excuses for not using his
> supposed healing powers. He says that Quire is "only changing" and it
> would be "wrong to interfere." Of course, he's lying. The final
> exchange of dialogue reads very differently in retrospect:
>
> XORN: When I was a boy, not much younger than you are, Quentin, a little
> star opened like a flower inside my head.
>
> QUIRE: What if the real enemy... was inside... all along?
>
> XORN [saluting]: A flower made of lights is opening in you. I can help
> you to let go of your last, painful attachments to this flesh where you
> were grown. There is something in you that is like me. Do you see?
>
> And then Xorn removes his faceplate, for only Quire to see. Quire
> screams... and dies before he can tell anyone why.
>
> NEW X-MEN #139: The Jean/Emma showdown. Xorn stands around and has a
> couple of neutral lines. "I can feel such stress and pain here... like
> gravity bending space." Hmm.
>
> NEW X-MEN #140: Xorn is looking after the Special Class when Bishop and
> Sage come round to visit. Sage asks him what he was doing when Emma was
> shot; his reply is "Meditating, I believe." Near the end of the issue,
> Sage sets out some of their unanswered questions in narrative captions.
> One of them, "Who supplied the drug called Kick we keep hearing so much
> about?" is positioned right next to a panel of Xorn and the Special
> Class...
>
> NEW X-MEN #141: Sage comments that "We shouldn't have come here, Bishop.
> There's something rotten at the Xavier School. Riots, drugs, telepathic
> adultery, murder..." I'll come back to that list later.
>
> The Beak, one of the Special Class under Xorn's influence, offers
> himself as the murderer but botches the confession. Is Magneto trying
> to throw the investigators off the scent?
>
> and Beak are looking after their pupae. Dialogue:
>
> XORN: Angel and Beak are not killers, Charles. I know these children
> and trust in their goodness.
>
> XAVIER: Sometimes even the best people will do terrible things to
> protect their secrets, Mr Xorn.
>
> Did Magneto have Emma killed by one of his Special Class because she had
> worked out who he really was - or perhaps she knew he was the Kick
> dealer?
>
> Xorn was, presumably, the man who pointed a gun at Sage's back. She
> described him as male and "at least six foot two, possibly taller".
> According to the Official Handbook, Magneto's height is... six foot two.
>
>
> Now then...
>
> Sage listed four things that were symptoms of something being "rotten"
> at Xavier's school. Presumably Magneto is responsible for all four.
>
> 1. RIOTS. Magneto has been subverting the pupils - note that Quire was
> pro-Magneto. And Quire was also on Kick.
>
> 2. DRUGS. Which he got from Magneto.
>
> 3. MURDER. Magneto tried to kill Emma, presumably because she either
> worked out who he was, or found out that he was the Kick supplier.
>
> 4. TELEPATHIC ADULTERY. Hold on... telepathic adultery? Magneto was
> responsible for Scott and Emma's relationship? Ludicrous, I hear you
> cry!
>
> But no.
>
> first appearance. Emma is given a key which is supposedly the key to
> Xorn's cell, but which we now know must have been created by Magneto as
> part of the charade. Cyclops asks her to read it telepathically for
> information. Emma replies "I'll try, but I hope you all realize this
> could take hour upon tedious hour..."
>
> To her immense surprise, she is instead bombarded with overpowering
> images of Xorn's supposed origin story in the very next panel, and
> doesn't even get to finish her sentence. Emma finds exposure to
> Magneto's poisoned key so unpleasant that she collapses and then
> switches to diamond form in order to turn off her telepathic powers.
>
> That night (and a mere two pages later), Emma turns up at Scott's room
> wearing an evening gown and holding champagne. "I couldn't sleep after
> the traumas of the day," she says.
>
> The key was clearly set up to deceive telepaths. Did it also poison
> Emma's mind and put the idea of the affair into her head? Apparently
> so...
>
>
Wow. Pretty impressive Paul.
I was wondering what your thoughts on when Jean says to Xavier "Whatever
happens will be for the best." I don't have the book in front of me, but it
was something like that. Seems like an odd thing to say at the moment. No?
lavar78
<ke...@theatremania.org> wrote:
> "lavar78" <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
> news:120920030801241706%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom...
> > In article <887734a2.03091...@posting.google.com>, Scott
> > Dubin <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > lavar78 <lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
> > > news:<110920032116475323%lav...@NOSPAM.hotmailDOTcom>...
> > >
> > > >
> > > Furthermore, why didn't Jean know if she is really using the
> > > > Phoenix force?
> > >
> > > Having the Phoenix force doesn't mean she's omniscient. Furthermore,
> > > the Phoenix's motivation has yet to be seen.
> >
> > Phoenix is omniscient, but darn close to it. Still, point taken.
> >
>
> Jean does have that bizarre line to Charles about "whatever happens will be
> for the best."
>
As an aside, didn't one of the Shi'ar say "the Phoenix has hatched" or
something along those lines? Is Jean pregnant? With Rachel?
BTW, I meant "Phoenix isn't omniscient."
--
/lavar78
Laura M. Parkinson
<pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
>
>
>SPOILERS
Adding a few comments myself now that my review is done, as is my
wont...
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>So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
>Let's take a look.
*snip much - this all does answer a few of the questions that I was
wondering about, by the way...*
>NEW X-MEN #127: this is the Xorn solo story. As the penultimate page
>makes clear, the narration is a letter written by Xorn to Xavier, in
>character. Therefore, it's all lies and can be safely ignored. What
>remains is in character for Magneto. He goes to Chinatown in accordance
>with his cover story. He sees a teenage mutant who's unwell, and tries
>to help. When the mutant goes nuts (in an area shown to be heavily
>populated with other mutants), Magneto tries to calm him down. He
>regrets the boy's death. Strip away the narration, which we now know to
>be falsified, and the story makes perfect sense - albeit from a rather
>different light. The narration happily replaces a large chunk of the
>actual dialogue, so a lot of the time we're left with Xorn's highly
>dubious account of what was said.
>
>Note also that Xorn establishes in that issue that Xavier can't read his
>mind - which he attributed to the "blinding" effect of the sun in his
>head. Presumably the mask actually served a double purpose of
>disguising Magnus' identity and blocking telepathic scans.
Hrm. Which Fantomex also coincidentally has - and haven't the few
glimpses we've had of him thus beyond the mask (on close-ups for the
eye holes frex) so far shown him with white eyebrows?
Joseph, perhaps? Though I'm still trying to mentally fit all of the
Weapon X stuff in with Magneto, honestly...
>NEW X-MEN #135: Xorn's founded his Special Class. Of course, Xorn
>remains in character as they go off on their field trip over the next
>few issues.
>
>In issue #135, Xorn is able to light a campfire by... well, doing
>something with his head. We see it from behind and vaguely. Device in
>the helmet? All the other characters are standing behind him as well,
>incidentally.
Perhaps some sort of deft magnetic manipulation of a flint and steel?
>Meanwhile, back at the Mansion, the Riot is starting. Oddly, Xorn has
>chosen to get the hell out of the way and go on a camping trip instead.
>And just where was Quire getting his drugs from...?
The thing though that gets me about this - Magneto would have to know
that Kick is very bad for mutants in the long run - so why would he
then supply them?
>NEW X-MEN #136: Xorn slaughters a bunch of U-Men - entirely out of
>character for the pacifist. Angel finds him in the aftermath. Xorn's
>comment is that "Sometimes the teacher must leave to make room for
>learning," which in retrospect may refer to him dropping his persona.
>Xorn then tells Angel that "this will be our secret." But why did Xorn
>want to keep it secret? Now we know.
>
>Angel quietly acquiesces; as we saw this issue, Xorn has extended some
>sort of mental control over the Special Class, by hijacking Martha's
>telepathy. ("Martha says we have to do what Mister Xorn says!",
>according to Ernst. Martha, of course, is hooked up to a machine and
>therefore at Magneto's mercy...)
Hrm... was Martha at the school when the whole Cassandra Nova thing
went down? I can't remember. I was just wondering if perhaps it was
Magneto controlling Beak to injure Beast so badly, instead of Cassie
Nova - but that's probably off.
Now that I think about it though - how much time was there in between
the whole Genosha destruction and Xorn showing up?
>The Beak, one of the Special Class under Xorn's influence, offers
>himself as the murderer but botches the confession. Is Magneto trying
>to throw the investigators off the scent?
I agree with someone else who said that it was probably really just
Beak trying to help Angel and the kids.
I see that someone also beat me to pointing out just what happened to
Sage (even if it isn't quite her "real" power, it fits in with how her
power was being treated by morrison), and how it fits in with Magneto.
Magnetism + computer stuff = very bad.
>Later, Xorn accompanies Xavier, Sage and Bishop to the hut where Angel
>and Beak are looking after their pupae. Dialogue:
>
>XORN: Angel and Beak are not killers, Charles. I know these children
>and trust in their goodness.
>
>XAVIER: Sometimes even the best people will do terrible things to
>protect their secrets, Mr Xorn.
>
>Did Magneto have Emma killed by one of his Special Class because she had
>worked out who he really was - or perhaps she knew he was the Kick
>dealer?
I don't think so - If Emma had figured out such an important thing,
I'd think it'd be the first thing out of her mouth when she woke up.
Perhaps he was figuring that he was going to be revealing himself
soon, and wanted to take Emma out of the picture? She's a) a telepath
and b) can turn into pure diamond - something that he just can't
affect, and could be the most dangerous to him out of the group.
Especially since she's spent some time on Genosha, and may know some
of this weaknesses?
It's even possible that, since she was helping him on Genosha and then
turned up to work with the X-Men, he sees her as a traitor of some
sort?
I would also like to point out one other thing that I haven't seen
mentioned yet. And I feel like a bad gamer-geek for not noticing a
possible connection before now. The only place I've seen the word
"Xorn" (other than in New X-Men) is in AD&D, or stuff that draws from
it (like Nethack). At the time, I just brushed that off as a
coincidence, figuring that the character had nothing to do with the
Dungeons & Dragons creature. But now, looking back, I realize that a
Xorn is a creature that... wait for it... can sense and eats metals,
and may attack adventurers to obtain them.
To take it a bit further and more into shaky speculation, it can also
go through/into walls and floors, and then come back up from
unexpected places and attack the party - sort of like Xorn appearing
from within the ranks of the X-Men to launch his attack. Like I said
though, that may be getting a bit more far-fetched.
lavar78
Parkinson <lpark...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:35:19 +0100, Paul O'Brien
> <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
> >
> >
> >SPOILERS
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Note also that Xorn establishes in that issue that Xavier can't read his
> >mind - which he attributed to the "blinding" effect of the sun in his
> >head. Presumably the mask actually served a double purpose of
> >disguising Magnus' identity and blocking telepathic scans.
>
> Hrm. Which Fantomex also coincidentally has - and haven't the few
> glimpses we've had of him thus beyond the mask (on close-ups for the
> eye holes frex) so far shown him with white eyebrows?
>
> Joseph, perhaps? Though I'm still trying to mentally fit all of the
> Weapon X stuff in with Magneto, honestly...
>
He who resurrects Joseph should be shot. I didn't realize Fantomex
(Phantom X?) had white eyebrows -- I was thinking along the lines of
Exodus (unlikely) or Maverick (really unlikely). White eyebrows could
point to Quicksilver or someone else related to Magneto. Now that we
know the alleged purpose of Fantomex (the "cool" character), a few
other possibilities are Longshot (doubtful), Shatterstar (hmm), or ...
X-Treme (very interesting). I'll have to look back at Fantomex's
appearances. And no, I don't know why any of them would be in league
with Magneto.
> I would also like to point out one other thing that I haven't seen
> mentioned yet. And I feel like a bad gamer-geek for not noticing a
> possible connection before now. The only place I've seen the word
> "Xorn" (other than in New X-Men) is in AD&D, or stuff that draws from
> it (like Nethack). At the time, I just brushed that off as a
> coincidence, figuring that the character had nothing to do with the
> Dungeons & Dragons creature. But now, looking back, I realize that a
> Xorn is a creature that... wait for it... can sense and eats metals,
> and may attack adventurers to obtain them.
>
> To take it a bit further and more into shaky speculation, it can also
> go through/into walls and floors, and then come back up from
> unexpected places and attack the party - sort of like Xorn appearing
> from within the ranks of the X-Men to launch his attack. Like I said
> though, that may be getting a bit more far-fetched.
I have been racking my brain trying to figure out whether the name
"Xorn" has any significance. Your theory seems plausible.
--
/lavar78
Stefan
news:0rv4mvog781etd1j9...@4ax.com...
> >character for the pacifist. Angel finds him in the aftermath. Xorn's
> >comment is that "Sometimes the teacher must leave to make room for
> >learning," which in retrospect may refer to him dropping his persona.
> >Xorn then tells Angel that "this will be our secret." But why did Xorn
> >want to keep it secret? Now we know.
> >
> >Angel quietly acquiesces; as we saw this issue, Xorn has extended some
> >sort of mental control over the Special Class, by hijacking Martha's
> >telepathy. ("Martha says we have to do what Mister Xorn says!",
> >according to Ernst. Martha, of course, is hooked up to a machine and
> >therefore at Magneto's mercy...)
>
> Hrm... was Martha at the school when the whole Cassandra Nova thing
> went down? I can't remember. I was just wondering if perhaps it was
> Magneto controlling Beak to injure Beast so badly, instead of Cassie
> Nova - but that's probably off.
Martha joined the team when Cyclops and Emma rescued her from the leader of
the U-Men. The Nova stuff was still going down. They returned just after
the Phoenix resurrected herself and before Xorn joined. So Beak was
definately under Cassandra Nova's control.
> >Did Magneto have Emma killed by one of his Special Class because she had
> >worked out who he really was - or perhaps she knew he was the Kick
> >dealer?
>
> I don't think so - If Emma had figured out such an important thing,
> I'd think it'd be the first thing out of her mouth when she woke up.
>
> Perhaps he was figuring that he was going to be revealing himself
> soon, and wanted to take Emma out of the picture? She's a) a telepath
> and b) can turn into pure diamond - something that he just can't
> affect, and could be the most dangerous to him out of the group.
> Especially since she's spent some time on Genosha, and may know some
> of this weaknesses?
>
> It's even possible that, since she was helping him on Genosha and then
> turned up to work with the X-Men, he sees her as a traitor of some
> sort?
>
>
I buy this. Either that or it was a plan of both Emma's and Magneto's
together knowing the X-Men would try to help her? Doubtful. And I would
rather have Emma on the X-Men as she has been portrayed under Morrison. Also
she did say some rude things about Magneto in Genosha just before the
Sentinal attack. Maybe all the telepaths in the room somehow sent thei last
thoughts to him before they died? He wasn't wearing his helmet after all.
Stefan
Lia Brown
list to others.
Lia
I find it VERY hard to take religious admonitions from anyone who signs
his messages "Dr Doom". ---M Sipher
Freedom Force: http://members.fortunecity.com/rook1/ffintro.html
Pradera
loosely:
>>Note also that Xorn establishes in that issue that Xavier can't read
his
>>mind - which he attributed to the "blinding" effect of the sun in his
>>head. Presumably the mask actually served a double purpose of
>>disguising Magnus' identity and blocking telepathic scans.
>
> Hrm. Which Fantomex also coincidentally has - and haven't the few
> glimpses we've had of him thus beyond the mask (on close-ups for the
> eye holes frex) so far shown him with white eyebrows?
>
> Joseph, perhaps? Though I'm still trying to mentally fit all of the
> Weapon X stuff in with Magneto, honestly...
Perhaps all of the World products are Magneto's clones... that's how
Wolverine knew about the set-up when he killed XV...
And, come to think of it, perhaps Xorn himself is one...
Wouldn't it be terrible?
--
Pradera
---
'Ronald Reagan once said that a great leader is simply an
average man who surrounds himself with the best.
That's why I never vote Republican'
Scott Summers, 'Cyclops'
http://www.pradera-castle.prv.pl/
http://www.tolkien-gen.prv.pl/
Paul O'Brien
<No_...@freeserve.co.uk> writes
SPOILERS
>
>I think it more likely he means he's reprogrammed them, so they no
>longer function for Cassandra. They're under his control, so they're
>his _now_
Ah, but turn for a moment - with gritted teeth - to the last issue of
Uncanny X-Men. According to Polaris, Magneto wasn't just convalescing
in a wheelchair - he was paralysed after his fight with the X-Men at the
end of the Lobdell interregnum run.
And yet somehow he had restored his ability to walk BEFORE getting
within a mile of Cassandra and her Sentinels? And he improvises with
unfamiliar nanotech to get Xavier back on his feet? Not buying it...
Paul O'Brien
<shill...@fas.harvard.edu> writes
>
>Well, I don't even remember the psychic key, though Paul's analysis is
>very convincing.
I would have to say I'm making a leap of logic because, the way
everything else is heading, I really do think Morrison is going to spend
the next few issues tying literally EVERYTHING together. And if this
particular plot isn't meant to be covered, why did he have Sage mention
it in her foreshadowing line a few issues back?
The plot evidence is far from compelling as of yet, but the literary
analysis points quite strongly to it, I think. If you like, call this
one a prediction of what I think Morrison's going to reveal in the next
couple of issues.
Paul O'Brien
Parkinson <lpark...@mindspring.com> writes
SPOILERS
>
>Joseph, perhaps?
Doubt it - Joseph discorporated altogether. Moreover, Magneto has very
carefully been kept as a presence in the book throughout Morrison's run.
So even a reader working through Morrison's trades in order will be
broadly familiar with the character and what he stands for.
Joseph's never been mentioned once, and his backstory as a pseudo-clone
of Magneto is horrendously complicated to bring in at this stage.
I think it's either going to be a completely new character or somebody
who's been at least tangentially mentioned along the way.
A thought, by the way: just because the Weapon Plus asteroid was a fake,
it doesn't necessarily mean that the World wasn't real. But all the
spin Fantomex put on it is highly questionable. We've seen the World -
but have we really seen any proof that Fantomex came from there? Did
any of the World's staff, or the AIM soldiers, actually described it as
the Weapon Plus project?
We still have the distinct possibility that all this stuff about the
Weapon Plus project is misdirection from Fantomex. (Which should please
continuity purists who are annoyed at dragging Captain America in and
reinventing Weapon X as a Roman numeral.)
>The thing though that gets me about this - Magneto would have to know
>that Kick is very bad for mutants in the long run - so why would he
>then supply them?
Magneto has always had an unfortunate habit of treating minor characters
and henchmen as disposable for the greater good.
>Hrm... was Martha at the school when the whole Cassandra Nova thing
>went down? I can't remember.
Martha was recovered from John Sublime at the end of the first U-Men
story in issue #120. A point which we haven't looked at so much is why
Sublime apparently then resurfaced as "Dr Sublime" in charge of the
Weapon Plus programme, which has completely different stated goals.
The U-Men, you'll recall, had disembodied Martha's brain and were using
it to keep prisoners subdued - specifically, Emma and Scott. Emma
apparently overpowers Martha telepathically, but one of the U-Men is
given the line: "Something's screwing with Martha. She's losing control
of them! Doesn't that mean..."
But Scott and Emma beat them up before he can finish his sentence.
Curiously enough, even though he plays no part in the storyline, Xorn is
apparently not at the Mansion at this time - Jean is the only X-Man
present, and singlehandedly fights off an attack by the U-Men which
takes place at the same time.
Back at the U-Men's headquarters, Emma and Scott storm Sublime's office.
Scott is holding Martha. Emma attacks Sublime, smashes a window, and
dangles him outside (they're about 20 storeys up). Sublime protests
that Emma shouldn't kill him, but Martha makes him change his mind - he
fights out of Emma's grip and plummets to the ground. Scott and Emma
both manage to miss Martha's influence - Scott would have no way of
telling, and Emma either wasn't paying attention or chose to turn a
blind eye. In any event, no consequences seem to follow for Martha's
murder of Sublime.
>Now that I think about it though - how much time was there in between
>the whole Genosha destruction and Xorn showing up?
Plenty. It includes the long gap where they make the school public and
recruit several hundred students. By the time Xorn turns up in New
X-Men 2001, the X-Men have already opened the first four X-Corp offices.
>I don't think so - If Emma had figured out such an important thing,
>I'd think it'd be the first thing out of her mouth when she woke up.
Just because Emma has incriminating information, doesn't mean she KNOWS
she has incriminating information. Magneto might simply not be prepared
to take the risk of somebody asking her the right question.
Pradera
loosely:
> In message <0rv4mvog781etd1j9...@4ax.com>, Laura M.
> Parkinson <lpark...@mindspring.com> writes
>
> SPOILERS
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>>Hrm... was Martha at the school when the whole Cassandra Nova thing
>>went down? I can't remember.
>
> Martha was recovered from John Sublime at the end of the first U-Men
> story in issue #120. A point which we haven't looked at so much is why
> Sublime apparently then resurfaced as "Dr Sublime" in charge of the
> Weapon Plus programme, which has completely different stated goals.
>
> The U-Men, you'll recall, had disembodied Martha's brain and were using
> it to keep prisoners subdued - specifically, Emma and Scott. Emma
> apparently overpowers Martha telepathically, but one of the U-Men is
> given the line: "Something's screwing with Martha. She's losing
control
> of them! Doesn't that mean..."
>
There's been a proposition on one of the forums that connects Martha with
Cassandra - they both have luminous blood, both are telepaths... and
probably both have something to do with nanosentinels, if that's what's
in the syringes... maybe Xavier was one of the triplets? Or maybe the
whole evil twin idea was a lie, too?
> But Scott and Emma beat them up before he can finish his sentence.
>
> Curiously enough, even though he plays no part in the storyline, Xorn
is
> apparently not at the Mansion at this time - Jean is the only X-Man
> present, and singlehandedly fights off an attack by the U-Men which
> takes place at the same time.
>
Xorn is still in Chinese monastery then - he first appears in #122 when
Cyclops goes to visit him.
ChuckLesnar420
> : <gra...@optushome.sodoff.com.au> writes
> :>
> :>Perhaps it's the elaborate nature of the deception and the relatively
> :>short interval between
> : [Redacted for spoilers]
>
> : It's only a short interval in terms of publishing schedule. In story
> : terms, that period includes a very, very lengthy gap where Cassandra
> : exposes the X-Men, the X-Men go public, the X-Men open up and staff at
> : least four X-Corp offices, and the school is opened with several hundred
> : pupils between issues.
>
> Exactly. The gap between books is not always a month inside them.
>
I think alot of people forget this when they harp on about characters ages
and chronological determined events. For example 5 or 6 months may pass
between the beginning and ending of an arc but only a day or two has in the
actual story.
lavar78
<pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <bjt6eb$hnd$6...@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk>, Brian Doyle
> <No_...@freeserve.co.uk> writes
>
> SPOILERS
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> >I think it more likely he means he's reprogrammed them, so they no
> >longer function for Cassandra. They're under his control, so they're
> >his _now_
>
> Ah, but turn for a moment - with gritted teeth - to the last issue of
> Uncanny X-Men. According to Polaris, Magneto wasn't just convalescing
> in a wheelchair - he was paralysed after his fight with the X-Men at the
> end of the Lobdell interregnum run.
>
> And yet somehow he had restored his ability to walk BEFORE getting
> within a mile of Cassandra and her Sentinels? And he improvises with
> unfamiliar nanotech to get Xavier back on his feet? Not buying it...
Sounds good. Of course, the only flaw in your theory is that we have
to believe Polaris...
--
/lavar78
Marc-Oliver Frisch
: I would have to say I'm making a leap of logic because, the way
: everything else is heading, I really do think Morrison is going to spend
: the next few issues tying literally EVERYTHING together.
Maybe retrospectives on Xavier ("...can't remember the smell of SOAP in grandmother's
house... or how good it felt to overcome the monster ONSLAUGHT..."), Jean Grey ("The
Phoenix has come to DISINFECT the planet...") and Fantomex ("The World operators tell me I
am a living hall of mirrors. I am a stealth fighter.") will soon be in order.
--
Marc-Oliver Frisch
Dersc...@hotmail.com
Logic is the poor man's fantasy.
--
[Please note: This is a Usenet message, originally posted to the rec.arts.comics.* groups.
If you see it in a moderated or censored forum, it was copied there without my consent.]
Marc-Oliver Frisch
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: I think it's either going to be a completely new character or somebody
: who's been at least tangentially mentioned along the way.
Since he's supposed to be based on the Fantomas character, I would presume it's someone
who's been prominent in the series, and who -- in the open -- is pretty much diametrically
opposed to what Fantomex seems to be. That's how it's in the French Fantomas movies, at
any rate.
Bearing this in mind, how about Xorn himself? So far, at least (I haven't read #145-146
yet, mind you), it would be entirely possible for the two of them to be the same person.
Or how about Shaw?
Either way, I doubt he's a new character -- that would be rather dissatisfying; after all,
why all the masquerade and the refusal to take off the mask if the guy underneath is a
blank, anyway? No, I think if Fantomex isn't someone who's been featured in the series,
then he'll probably turn out to be a literal "phantom." (A construct made of
nanotechnology, for example: remember Cerebro's fake X-Men from the Seagle/ Kelly run.)
Laura M. Parkinson
<pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <0rv4mvog781etd1j9...@4ax.com>, Laura M.
>Parkinson <lpark...@mindspring.com> writes
>
>SPOILERS
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>>Joseph, perhaps?
>
>Doubt it - Joseph discorporated altogether. Moreover, Magneto has very
>carefully been kept as a presence in the book throughout Morrison's run.
>So even a reader working through Morrison's trades in order will be
>broadly familiar with the character and what he stands for.
>
>Joseph's never been mentioned once, and his backstory as a pseudo-clone
>of Magneto is horrendously complicated to bring in at this stage.
Well, I was thinking of the discorporation, and thought that it might
be a reason that a part of him is still outside the rest of his body
(in Eva - a metallic object), but the convolution is a good point.
Though I doubt that'd stop Morrison if he really wanted to deal with
it.
>I think it's either going to be a completely new character or somebody
>who's been at least tangentially mentioned along the way.
>
>A thought, by the way: just because the Weapon Plus asteroid was a fake,
>it doesn't necessarily mean that the World wasn't real. But all the
>spin Fantomex put on it is highly questionable. We've seen the World -
>but have we really seen any proof that Fantomex came from there? Did
>any of the World's staff, or the AIM soldiers, actually described it as
>the Weapon Plus project?
I can't remember, not having been looking for that sort of thing at
the time. ;)
>We still have the distinct possibility that all this stuff about the
>Weapon Plus project is misdirection from Fantomex. (Which should please
>continuity purists who are annoyed at dragging Captain America in and
>reinventing Weapon X as a Roman numeral.)
*whistles innocently*
*snip some*
>>Now that I think about it though - how much time was there in between
>>the whole Genosha destruction and Xorn showing up?
>
>Plenty. It includes the long gap where they make the school public and
>recruit several hundred students. By the time Xorn turns up in New
>X-Men 2001, the X-Men have already opened the first four X-Corp offices.
Hrm, I didn't realize it was quite that long. So that does give
Magneto at least a little time to come up with this plot and execute
it.
>>I don't think so - If Emma had figured out such an important thing,
>>I'd think it'd be the first thing out of her mouth when she woke up.
>
>Just because Emma has incriminating information, doesn't mean she KNOWS
>she has incriminating information. Magneto might simply not be prepared
>to take the risk of somebody asking her the right question.
So you propose not so much that she knows that Xorn = Magneto (or that
he was supplying Kick), but that she knows a few things that might be
pieced together to reveal it?
A couple other points that I figured I might as well mention here...
First, I've seen elsewhere (but couldn't find where, one of the
reasons I'm just mentioning it here) that people are intrigued by the
whole "whatever happens will be for the best" comment from Phoenix.
Me, I'm wondering more about her "misheard" comment a couple panels
before, "I'm going away soon, Charles." Now this sounds ominous...
I'd also like to point out something that I noticed upon reread - the
similarity of a situation this book compared to the book's history.
Namely Scott piloting a plane/craft from space, having it be out of
control, and ending up crashing it into the ocean. Wonder if there's
any sort of significance (if there is, I can't figure out what it
should be) to that parallel, or if it's just there to bring forth
images of the Phoenix introduction.
~consul
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> I succumbed to the spoilers as well, and haven't read the issue yet.
> What I'm wondering is, how far in advance did Magneto have this
> planned? It does seem awfully elaborate for him to have come up with
> this whole plan on a whim after Genosha was destroyed.
> destruction of Genosha himself, though killing 16 million mutants
> would hardly be in character for him.
He might want to be a leader and ruler of mutants, but perhaps being under the
public eye was too much. He didn't want to be an international leader, he just
wants to rule his little closed off kingdom of sorts.
--
"... all good works are not done by only good folk ..."
--till next time, Jameson Stalanthas Yu -x- dolphins-cove.com
jame...@INVALIDusc.edu ((remove the INVALID))
~consul
>>>Caution: this post contains spoilers for New X-Men #146.
>>>
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>>>Xorn's fake prison was called Feng Tu. When asked about this name, Emma
>>>Frost replies "It's from mythology."
>>Do we know what it means?
> Basically: Hell, however, not the typical western version.
> It was the afterlife place where the Yama Kings ruled. There were three bridges
> to enter: a gold one, a silver one, and a wooden one. The gold was reserved for
> gods and demigods; the silver was for the righteous and just, the wooden was
> for the souls of the damned. You see, the wooden bridge was rickety and had
> no railing; those who fell off were torn apart by snakes and dogs below.
It looks like folks got a chance at least. :_)
~consul
> On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:35:19 +0100, Paul O'Brien
>>SPOILERS
> Adding a few comments myself now that my review is done, as is my
> wont...
>
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>>So, how does New X-Men #146 add up with Xorn's previous appearances?
>>Let's take a look.
> glimpses we've had of him thus beyond the mask (on close-ups for the
> eye holes frex) so far shown him with white eyebrows?
> Joseph, perhaps? Though I'm still trying to mentally fit all of the
> Weapon X stuff in with Magneto, honestly...
Perhaps. Didn't Joseph 'die' by spreading his aura across the world or was that
just Nate? I think both of them did it ...? It could be that he is the genetic
template for the Weapon Plus program? Or that it could be a reference to the
movie, where he is covered in white gold?
> The thing though that gets me about this - Magneto would have to know
> that Kick is very bad for mutants in the long run - so why would he
> then supply them?
He's killed mutants that he didn't like. He killed what'shisname, the guy with
the tentacles, when the Acolytes attacked a hospital and strangled a nurse and
patients.
> I see that someone also beat me to pointing out just what happened to
> Sage (even if it isn't quite her "real" power, it fits in with how her
> power was being treated by morrison), and how it fits in with Magneto.
> Magnetism + computer stuff = very bad.
I remember racmx had arguments about Sage being 'like a computer-mind' vs a
'like a computer' and what could or couldn't happen to her.
> it (like Nethack). At the time, I just brushed that off as a
> coincidence, figuring that the character had nothing to do with the
> Dungeons & Dragons creature. But now, looking back, I realize that a
> Xorn is a creature that... wait for it... can sense and eats metals,
> and may attack adventurers to obtain them.
You could lose your card for that ... :) I had thought of that name, since that
was the only place I saw it, but I didn't see any connection as to why he would
have to be Mags in the first place.
Wow, this is almost as good example of a plot foresight as a Priest-written
Black Panther. :)
Scott Dubin
> The thing though that gets me about this - Magneto would have to know
> that Kick is very bad for mutants in the long run - so why would he
> then supply them?
Because is makes them violent and anti-human.
Daniel Butler
"~consul" <jame...@REMOVEusc.edu> wrote in message
news:bjvtpg$3r8$1...@usc.edu...
> Jeremy Henderson wrote:
> >>: SPOILERS
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> > I succumbed to the spoilers as well, and haven't read the issue yet.
> > What I'm wondering is, how far in advance did Magneto have this
> > planned? It does seem awfully elaborate for him to have come up with
> > this whole plan on a whim after Genosha was destroyed.
> > I'm now wondering whether he was somehow behind Cassandra Nova and the
> > destruction of Genosha himself, though killing 16 million mutants
> > would hardly be in character for him.
>
> He might want to be a leader and ruler of mutants, but perhaps being under
the
> public eye was too much. He didn't want to be an international leader, he
just
> wants to rule his little closed off kingdom of sorts.
He's Doctor Doom/Black Panther!
Sorted magAZine
"Daniel Butler" <commer...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:MqM8b.1582$g75....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk...
the context of Claremont's Magneto, not the bizarre versions we've seen since
the start of "adjectiveless".
D.
Sorted magAZine
"~consul" <jame...@REMOVEusc.edu> wrote in message
being published and the third part of the trilogy is largely written.
D.
Lacy3399
>Uncanny X-Men. According to Polaris, Magneto wasn't just convalescing
>in a wheelchair - he was paralysed after his fight with the X-Men at the
>end of the Lobdell interregnum run.
>
>And yet somehow he had restored his ability to walk BEFORE getting
>within a mile of Cassandra and her Sentinels? And he improvises with
>unfamiliar nanotech to get Xavier back on his feet? Not buying it...
>
What are you referring to? Magneto was still in that wheelchair when the
Sentinels attacked Genosha. We don't really know what's left of his body at
this point. Rumor has it that the plans two years ago included not only Xorn as
Magneto, but Magneto not really having much of a human body left. Hopefully,
that is no longer true. But I don't get your point. Magneto has made himself
whole and can walk, why do you assume it's nannosentinels? Why not
technorganics or cyborg technology? Magneto is a master of robotics.
There is no reason to suspect that Magneto is using nannosentinels on his own
body, but only that he collected them from the X-Men when he seemed to heal
them, and did indeed reprogram them. Which was his plan all along, I think.
I believe its possible Magneto supplied the microsentinel technology to the
Weapon Plus people knowing it was better to give them the weapons of mass
destruction and have total control over those weapons, than to be the victim of
unknown technology. I think Cassandra Nova's use of the nanosentinels was not
some plan of Magneto's, but he certainly took advantage of the situaiton in
order to further his disguise as Xorn.
Cassandra obtained these tiny sentinels from the U-Men who obtained them
probably from Weapon Plus; she was using them as a disease, to destroy either
just the X-Men, or all mutants on earth eventually.
Magneto must have deliberately planned to be able to reprogram the
nannosentinels in order to control them, and the anti-mutant "super soldiers"
they were genetically combined with, in the event the governments of earth
released them. That was the entire purpose of supplying them to Weapon Plus in
the first place. Thus, once the X-Men were infected, Magneto as Xorn "healed"
them by doing what he'd planned to do all along, get control of the
microsentinels. Magnus is probably immune to the things, in some way. He who
controls the microsentinels, controls the genetically bred "weapons" that were
made from them.
Lacy3399
Yup. I can see Magneto as Xorn supplying the kick -- this is something he'd
rationalize too. *I just makes it available, their own weakness will make them
addicts.*
Lacy3399
>with
>the tentacles, when the Acolytes attacked a hospital and strangled a nurse
>and
>patients.
Actually, Senyaka got better and claimed Magneto had only been trying to kill
him. (CABLE #11, or #12 or thereabouts.)
>> Magnetism + computer stuff = very bad.
Except Sage doesn't have a computer for a brain. She's a "mentat" type, not a
technorganic computer. In any case, electromagnetism can affect the
neurotransmitters of the brain. In fact all our thinking and memories are
electrochemical activity, and I've been waiting for someone to point out in the
comics that Magneto should be able to really mess up a person's thinking with
his powers, much like taking various psychotropic medications would. (He could
L-Dopa someone, or do a "truth serum" on them, etc.)
>
>Wow, this is almost as good example of a plot foresight as a Priest-written
>Black Panther. :)
Absolutely, but only if Magneto is portrayed subtly, with his full character
intact, as Priest would write him. Not as some master Devil who controlled
Cassandra Nova and killed 16 million of his own people, a survivor of Auschwitz
killing his own people? That's ludicrous. Priest wrote the best Magneto in
ages, in BLACK PANTHER. In fact, I'd vote for him to replace Morrison on NEW
X-MEN when Morrison leaves.
Lacy3399
>> turned up to work with the X-Men, he sees her as a traitor of some
>> sort?
>>
>>
>
>I buy this. Either that or it was a plan of both Emma's and Magneto's
>together knowing the X-Men would try to help her? Doubtful. And I would
>rather have Emma on the X-Men as she has been portrayed under Morrison. Also
>she did say some rude things about Magneto in Genosha just before the
>Sentinal attack. Maybe all the telepaths in the room somehow sent thei last
>thoughts to him before they died? He wasn't wearing his helmet after all.
I think you-all are making more of this than needs to be made. Emma lost her
school, Synch was killed, she had some rough times, and she went to Genosha to
teach mutant kids again. Magneto was pretty much paralyzed and a figure-head
"president" only. Emma indicated only contempt for him, in a polite sort of
way, while she was teaching the class.
As for Magneto vs. the White Queen, there's been bad blood between them for
years. He trusted her at one point, and she used him to oust Shaw so she and
Magneto could control the Hellfire Club, and her plan was to eliminate Magneto
so she, Emma, would have total control. Magneto wouldn't need much inspiration
to eliminate Emma Frost, when he was pretending to be Xorn.
And if she started to put two-and-two together about her Cuckoos, and the
rioters and kick (which it appeared she was using too), Magnus would be happy
to take her out, and in her diamond form, so much the better.
Lacy3399
>grandmother's
>house... or how good it felt to overcome the monster ONSLAUGHT..."), J
I was hoping someone would do a book by book analysis of Xavier's behavior
throughout Morrison's arc. There might be a pattern to it, I don't know. It
does seem strange how many times he's been duped, fooled, cold-cocked, and
depressed. Xavier is more of a hard-ass than this, a keeper of secrets and a
manipulator in his own right. And certainly he used to be more on top of what
was going on. He seems lost in NEW X-MEN, like a feather on the wind.
Lacy3399
>>
>> SPOILERS
>
>
>OMG! That's brilliant!
Except for the part about Emma Frost and the love triangle, Paul did a good
job!
Initially -- but then in the course of this thread, Paul, you went from "just
the facts, ma'am," to broad speculations about Magneto being some kind of Grand
Devil of the Marvel Universe, and you disappointed me greatly.
I was going to jump in sooner and congratulate you for percisely the reason
that in your initial analysis you avoided all the Magneto as total monster
garbage I've been reading on other message boards.
Lacy3399
>it doesn't necessarily mean that the World wasn't real. But all the
>spin Fantomex put on it is highly questionable. We've seen the World -
>but have we really seen any proof that Fantomex came from there? Did
>any of the World's staff, or the AIM soldiers, actually described it as
>the Weapon Plus project?
This is what makes this story so compelling. Not just the Magneto-Xorn twist,
but the questions you raise above.
I would add, that there have been three Asteroid Ms and one Avalon. The first
Asteroid M was destroyed in a battle with the X-Men very early on, UXM #5 I
believe. Magneto rebuilt it and #2 was different from #1. Magneto rebuilt it
probably around the time he created his Antarctic fortress seen in UXM #112 and
#113. This Asteroid M was demolished by the incoming Warlock, sending Magneto
hurtling to the Atlantic Ocean where he was rescued by Lee Forrester.
Magnus rebult Asteroid M again, probably around the time he left Xavier's (the
UXM #270-s) and this time it was more of a spacious home, not a metal hive of
weapons. The only Asteroid M that Wolverine has seen from the inside is the
third version, and also Avalon, which was another kind of space station built
on the remains of Graymalkin.
So, it's VERY strange to me, that Magneto would rebuild Asteroid M -- now the
4th version -- to look exactly like the one the X-Men were held captive on in
XM #1 through #3. And that he'd do this when? At the time he was given Genosha?
Earlier, after the "Trial of Gambit"? And that Weapon Plus would be sort of
plastered onto the core replica of Asteroid M 3. It definitely seems like a
set-up, but why? It's almost as if Magneto wanted the X-Men to catch on, and
continue playing some sort of "game."
Lacy3399
>She never accepted Emma's attitude or influence, seeing her apparently as
>deluded for her stance as good girl with bad girl attitude. She only
>helped the Cuckoos against the Imperial Guard out of self-preservation and
>practicality. And she now has a mutant brood that the world will revile to
>protect; she may see Mags as her best bet to keep her children safe.
>: Easier to believe Beak was simply trying to protect Angel, and did so
>: because of her.
>
>Beak honestly loves Angel. And his kiddies. Mags has his new Wanda and
>Pietro, tied perhaps more inextricably to him than his own kids ever were.
Some good points.
Lacy3399
>> What I'm wondering is, how far in advance did Magneto have this
>> planned? It does seem awfully elaborate for him to have come up with
>> this whole plan on a whim after Genosha was destroyed.
>> I'm now wondering whether he was somehow behind Cassandra Nova and the
>> destruction of Genosha himself, though killing 16 million mutants
>> would hardly be in character for him.
>
>He might want to be a leader and ruler of mutants, but perhaps being under
>the
>public eye was too much. He didn't want to be an international leader, he
>just
>wants to rule his little closed off kingdom of sorts.
Oh, you can't be serious. Magneto is not responsible for the murder of 16
million mutants. I see nothing in the comics to support this. On the contrary,
Xorn makes mention of how he could have created paradise on earth. Xorn is
Magneto in hiding, and in mourning, and enraged at the thought that Xavier has
profited from his losses.
As I've said, it's cheap and bad writing to make Magneto responsible for
everything in Morrison's entire run. Cassandra Nova was actually a good villain
-- one of the best to come along in years. The "E is for Extinction" arc stands
or falls on her genuineness as the master manipulator, planner, puppet-master.
She was presented as being quite brilliant in her planning. Magneto is too
emotional to be that cold and calculating. Nova would squash him like a bug,
which is why he had to "hide" as Xorn as much as because he was trying to
subvert the X-Men.
Lacy3399
>control. Most of the Special Class likely feel themselves to have bonded
>with Xorn, and are thus willing to do what he says. Martha herself is
>quite likely not the happiest camper in existence, and he likely could
>think the proper thoughts towards her to get her on his side.
I agree. That's what I thought immediately. Magneto is a charismatic man, and
as Xorn he must have built a bond and tight relationship with these particular
students. They are empowered by the knowledge that he has singled them out, has
chosen THEM, of all students. I think the ones who are the most psychologicall
needy would do anything for him, without the least bit of telepathic control.
Dust's self-esteem is wrapped up in her Islamic faith, and Xorn-Magneto
couldn't manipulate her damaged psyche like he could the others.
> Angel is likely the only person who might knowingly go against Xorn.
>But Angel knows the 'secret' from the camping trip. Angel knows that if
>Xorn sees a need to do it, he will kill plenty of people fast, and will
>use death as a tool. He has Angel under his control because she likely
>fears him from that time onwards.
Recall Angel's childhood and her attitude towards authority. She becomes
submissive when threated. When treated gently and fairly by Xavier she sort of
lost a little perspective, not being used to it, and acted out. Xorn must have
gradually applied the tension, increasing the threat level, and Angel caved.
>
> Easier to believe Beak was simply trying to protect Angel, and did so
>because of her.
That's how I interpreted it, too.
>
>
> And just for Magneto still being around... I did point out after the
>destruction of Genosha story that the artwork showed the plane exploding
>before it hit Magneto's tower, though I also raised the issue whether it
>was simply an art mistake, or Quitely's quality level, or the intention
>that Magneto had actually protected himself. Throwing on his helmet would
>cause Xavier to not be able to find him, and he could play dead until
>whenever he wanted to reappear. (Since they never said they found a body,
>and fooling Xavier was always a possibility.)
I agree with this too. I think Morrison made it clear that Cassandra Nova was
targeting Magneto ... the sentinel forms a fist before hitting the building.
The building does blow up, but the sentinel seems to hit something first before
it hits Magneto's tower.
Magneto hasn't been detectable by Cerbro in years! I'm surprised that Xavier
declared him dead so easily, just because he blipped off Cerebra's "radar
screen." (Of course, Xavier has been acting incresingly dense throughout
Morrison's run.)
I think Magneto was keeping Weapon Plus close in an attempt to control them.
They preexist him, but he began to manipulate them and redirect them, probably
after he woke up after Avalon's demise. What better way to make sure he can
combat and control their weapons, than to supply those weapons himself?
Nanosentinels, but you can be sure these wouldn't have harmed any mutants
Magneto didn't want them to harm. Why the Weapon Plus people -- some of them
really evil government types -- fell for Magneto's machinations, I don't know.
Of course, everyone thought he was dead, or a mental vegetable at the time
Magneto would have initiated this plan.
I think it was simply cruel and ironic of Cassandra Nova, who would know of
Magneto's plans, and not give a damn, he's so far beneath her, in her view --
she decided it would be ironic to use Magneto's nanosentinels to destroy
mutants once Magneto was out of the way and couldn't get the little buggers
under control. I don't think she counted on Magneto surviving the attack on
Genosha.
Magneto -- whether he's even a whole human body any longer -- he was paralyzed
with a severed spinal cord when the sentinels hit -- had no choice but to hide
as soon as he escaped Genosha. (I certainly hope Amelia Voght got him out and
also survived.)
It is really a great Magneto moment -- if Morrison and his editors aren't
taking the Magster over the top into demonic one-diimensional monsterhood -- if
Magnus decided his first priority was to destroy Xavier's dream the way his own
dream had been destroyed. To once and for all, defeat the X-Men.
Magneto and Xavier are not Angel and Devil, Saint and Demon, but two sides of
the same coin. Magneto is Xavier's adversary, "other" -- it's personal between
them, as much as a political fight about two ways of dealing with the advent of
mutants. And this reveleation in NXM #146 embodies the very essence of their
relationship, in my opinion. As long as Morrison stops before he makes Magneto
into a devil responsible for EVERY evil thing that has happened to the X-Men
since NXM #114.
Lacy3399
> >"good guys" aren't forced to take full responsibility for their actions
> >(Scott with Maddie, Xavier as Onslaught, etc.).
>
>It wouldn't get Scott off the hook, only Emma. And in any event it's
>not clear that the key necessarily did anything more than put the idea
>into her mind.
>
I have to agree with lavar78 about this one, Paul. I think you're jumping to a
big conclusion. I'm no fan of Morrison, but I do respect what he was trying to
do with the Emma, Scott, Jean triangle. Morrison gave the relationship and
Emma's attraction to Scott considerable attention. Some really good
psychological stuff.
Emma fell in love with Scott. It's interesting how telepaths are attracted to
him. Emma is no saint. She's the White Queen, and she is used to using sex to
get what she wants. She didn't need any "key" or suggestion from Magneto to
fall in love with Scott Summers or try and seduce him. It was a learning
experience for her -- Morrison wrote her as facing herself, growing, changing.
She cried when she confessed to Logan she'd fallen for Scott Summers.
It's cheap to start attributing EVERYTHING that happened in Morrison's run to
Magneto as Xorn. And you have no real evidence for it! Yes, fake thoughts and
memories of Xorn were planted on the key for Emma to pick up; Magneto could
have done that with the technology we've seen before. How does that equate with
"instructing" or "inspiring" Emma to seduce Scott Summers? If that turns out to
be the case, like I said, it turns Morrison's carefully developed love triangle
into a sham, and makes for very bad writing.
Fitting the Xorn thread into the tapestry of Morrison's NEW X-MEN work is
remarkable -- you can't add a whole section of the tapestry after you've
already done most of the weaving; Morrison had to begin planning his pattern
and weaving the story from the start. But the Xorn as Magneto angle is only a
part of the larger tapestry. Saying Magneto is suddenly responsible for
EVERYTHING that happens in Morrison's run is just as demeaning to the writer as
saying he threw the Xorn-Magneto stuff into the pot at the last minute and bent
a few limbs to make it fit.
Not to mention how demeaning it is to Magneto -- I can't believe how some of
the same people who defended the tragic-complex Magneto in the past are now
jumping up and down at the thought that Magneto would ever have anything to do
with the genocide of mutants. (Genosha.) The one thing that has been
consistent with this character is his role as protector of mutants. And his vow
that another genocide will never happen to mutants like it happened to his
family during his youth.
GIven the immeasurable rage Magnus must feel that Xavier suddenly became
accepted by the world, founded the X-Corporations, seems to have prospered as a
result of the murder of 16 million mutants, and his (Magneto's) death,
Xorn-Magneto's motivations ring so true! There is tragedy here. Pathos. Depth.
Magneto is in character. To take him over the top, and make him a traitor to
the mutant cause, nothing but a monster, an evil demon who would kill his own
people because he wants a war, should be unacceptable to any reader of the
X-Men. At the very least, it makes no sense, in that Magneto looked at
Genoshans as his private mutant army, and the "war" he wanted to start, was
going to be fought with his country, Genosha, leading the way.
Weapon Plus is another matter, and a fascinating possibility -- recall the
phrase, "keep your friends close, and your enemies closer."
Lacy3399
>of smell once, and I don't think Rucka has either.
But ... what does it matter how Morrison is writing him, or Rucka? They're not
writing him correctly then. Logan's sense of smell is one of his mutant
abilities. Rather than gloss over what seems to be a big mistake, I would
rather wonder if there is another reason Wolverine didn't pick up any scent. As
in, maybe something isn't quite right about who we think is Magneto.
Lacy3399
>for the best."
Exactly. She's floating. She's in human form but feeling above everything. She
sees a greater picture that people on the ground, in a manner of speaking,
can't see. I think Phoenix's entire attitude -- while Xavier is shouting
"Emergency, to me my X-Men," is one of complete and radiant calm.
I find this more interesting, and less of a problem, than Logan not sensing
Xorn is Magneto.
Lacy3399
>
>It was the afterlife place where the Yama Kings ruled. There were three
>bridges
>to enter: a gold one, a silver one, and a wooden one. The gold was reserved
>for
>gods and demigods; the silver was for the righteous and just, the wooden was
>for the souls of the damned. You see, the wooden bridge was rickety and had
>no railing; those who fell off were torn apart by snakes and dogs below.
>
Oh, that is very cool. If only Morrison is going to leave Mags as the enraged,
embittered survivor of Genosha, who refuses to let Xavier profit from the
destruction of :*his* (Magneto's) dream, and not try to make Magneto into a
total monster and demon.
Lacy3399
>>
>Yeah, that's probably it. More importantly, we fell for it. Xorn has
>said a lot of questionable things that I've never really questioned
>(well, until Austen beat me over the head with a
>Xorn-is-more-than-he-seems stick). It's a credit to Morrison that
>Xorn's slaughter of all those people set off less flags than his verbal
>attack on Annie.
But Xorn didn't "slaughter" all kinds of people. We didn't suspect, because he
acted in defense of himself, or others. He now seems to have been quite
restrained, knowing it was Magneto all along.
As to Quintin, I was under the impression he really had become an energy-being
of sorts. No proof Quitin was killed. I was going by the X-MEN ENCYCLOPEDIA
which was apparently tied to anticipated plot lines, where it says Quintin is
being kept in an energy stasis tube of some kind. Perhaps Morrison and editor
Marts changed their minds about QQ. (A shame too, he's a good villailn for
future stories.)
>So, the question I've been wondering since I found out: why didn't
>Logan know? What good are heightened senses if you can't smell
>Magneto? Furthermore, why didn't Jean know if she is really using the
>Phoenix force?
I think these are still excellent questions, and people are too easily
dismissing Wolverine's senses. Logan hates Magneto, and if there was even a
hint that Xorn had Magneto's scent, Logan would have been on it. The same with
Phoenix, although if one is a goddess, so above mundane human concerns, maybe
Phoenix did know, but saw the greater picture -- it's all for the best.