Latest X-Men: *What the HELL is wrong?*
Trinity
really selling so well that they can put out garbage like this? The
story involving Douglock and Red Skull was silly. (Not to mention
insulting, I suppose nobody bothered to mention to the X-men "creative"
team that the Skull died again just last month. Damn, shouldn't there
have been at least a tiny period of time before they lugged his boring
corpse back?) And the artwork was... well, basically comparable to what
you'd get if you chucked a box of crayolas into a pit of masturbating
spider monkies. I haven't seen art this bad in any Marvel mag, -ever-.
It reminds me of the kind of thing you'd see in pulp-grade fanzines.
Now, we all know that X-Men have been on autopilot for most of the
90's, but this is just embarrassing. I'd literally prefer the Saturday
Morning cartoon version to what's currently happening in the book. I
didn't just feel disappointed, I felt... abused. Like somewhere back
at Marvel, a meeting was held wherein somebody decided that since Xmen
fans would buy anything, they could put their worst creative team on
it, and therefore free up everyone with talent to work on books that
actually require quality to sell.
Sorry if I sound bitter, but I used to be a big xMen fan. What's
happening now in the book is lunacy. The "anti-mutant" angle,
compelling back in the 80's, is now a moldy cliche that doesn't even
remotely ring true. The character development is nil, there's no
tension or drama, and basically I'm starting to wish that I hadn't
subscribed so I didn't have to watch the travesty that the book has
become. I literally don't even OPEN half the issues of xm and uxm that
I get.
Luis Ramirez
books when it looks like its gonna be a dreck storyline. Lately I wait
till the books get good reviews in this ng before I buy them. But man,
sometimes I get stuck in a week were theres nothing I want to buy, so I'm
stuck with buying that less then great x-men and uncanny x-men book from
last month (I can though, with great pride, say that I stayed away from
the Magneto storyline. I just wish I could say the same about the hunt for
xavier).
I mean, actually, maybe I've been brainwashed, but Alan Davis is doing a
good job. Its just that these plots are so simple and boring. The X-Men
could be so much. They're suffering from the fact that they are the single
most popular book out there and Marvel wants to keep their popularity. At
the cost of good storylines.
A lot of people feel the same way you do. But just not enough.
Luis.
(who now vows to go buy some bizarre, off the wall comic whenever he gets
the urge to buy a crummy x-book)
Jesus
left Uncanny. That Magneto War was just... bad.
I used to read Gen X, but it went to hell after Bachalo. Hama was
just... bad.
Jesus A. Torres
--
(who apologizes for the cross post)
jpayne
and little to say...you would think they would be pumping it out due to the
movie starting to gain momentum, but NOOOO. What's up w/ these worthless
stories? First "Hunt" than the awful "Magneto Wars" now some
interdemensional/space lost crap ( I actually like the green bubble
teleporter dude, though). I was really enjoying the Zero Tolerance line
featuring Bobby, but now he's even packed up and left...maybe that should
tell the HigherUps something...get a clue, all the interesting characters
left the mansion, watch out or we will to!!
and hey, at least Magneto being Polaris in drag would be original. We've
seen Magnus back from the comatose brain dead how many times??
Charlie Picart <char...@futures.wharton.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:7l9f0t$qin$3...@netnews.upenn.edu...
> You should give Generation X a chance again. M. Faerber (sp?) is doing a
> great job making these kids an interesting bunch and, honestly, the art
> is quite good; though not up to the standard Dodson established for
> himself on his previous work. I suspect that comes from a lack of time
> (previous work was mostly mini and now he's doing ongoing)
>
> Anyway, while Hama did suck and while the art is not Bachalo anymore
> (then again, not a lot of people can compete IMHO), I believe GenX is the
> better XBook out there, with Gambit and X-Force (though very recent
> issues of XForce sucked donkey ass).
>
> Give it a try. :)
> Charlie
>
> Jesus (je...@lconn.com) wrote:
> : I haven't touched an X-book (except X-Force) since Seagle & Bachalo
kha...@mail.smartchat.net.au
Being an X-Men fan these days is like being a domestic violence victim.
It's like living with an alcoholic who beats you everyday - you used to
love him, but why do you stay with him now, watching him capitulate to a
shameful low-point in his existence?
Trinity, email letter to Mark Powers. It won't achieve anything but he
might just start to get worried, and hey, maybe that doubt niggling at the
back of his mind with turn into full fledged fear and he'll have to let
somebody write a decent story line. The reason Seagle and Kelly left the
book is they had killer stories they wanted to write and were instead TOLD
more or less what they should write. They *compromised* their stories, as
opposed to having them edited. They were forced to inundate their
bastardised tales with captions - a phalanx of meaningless captions
detailing what we already know to bloody death about how the world hates
and fears the bloody X-Men. I HATE and FEAR thejm now because one of them
has the mutant ability to produce tonnes and tonnes of captions. They left
because they couldn't maintain any degree of self-respect. They had Chris
Claremont suggesting Magneto should be revealed not to be Magneto, but
Polaris in drag. Polaris in drag. WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE?
Anyway I'm glad they're out of there. I like the guys too much to want them
involved in the misdirected stercoraceous downward spiral that has become
the X-books.
Kenmlin
his run at X-titles has been lackluster so far. They probably shouldn't make
him plot both titles because he's essentially forced to stretch a story into
two issues.
I know there was a problem from the start when he started his run with two
"lost in space" storylines. I can tolerate these kinds of story once the
creative team has proven themselve as they are often used when creative juices
are low and they want to slack off for few months. (By the way, Chris
Claremont is doing similar stuff in F4 as well. I still remember when Chris
and Alan did this together back in Excalibur.)
Ken
Charlie Picart
Chris Dickinson
Um... You must not have seen the art in Excalibur #37-39... <twitch> THE
worst art I've EVER seen. I couldn't tell the demons apart from the West
Coast Avengers <grin> (okay, I'm exaggerating, but only slightly....)
Question: I don't read the X-books anymore, but didn't they give ANY
explaination as to why Skull was in it? That's got to be the fastest
resurrection ever.
Chris
Chris Shelton
> better XBook out there
You are correct. The rest has just turned to drivel.
Marvel are ya listening? You've lost my green, and I've been a faithful
X-Men reader since '93.
Chris Shelton
Luis Ramirez
Chris Shelton wrote:
Its been proven by the great majority that waiting patiently for things to
change and staying angry will usually get the attention of Marvel. Angry
(or nice) letters and emails are usually ignored and just makes Marvel
angrier and more set in its ways. Its like telling a child not to jump on
his bed. He'll do it even more to spite you and to be rebellious.
Luis.
Marvel has a rather complex word processor created by Microsoft that
generates all of the letters that appear in its letter columns. They are
composed of generalized templates which vary from "good single issue" to
"great crossover event" to "I love that unexpected guest appearance." All
the editor/assistant editor has to do is fill in a couple of boxes with
specific information, such as the name/gender of the letter writer, the
issue number and the main characters in the story. And wah lah. No more
worrying about filing up that extra page.
Leary
>
> Marvel has a rather complex word processor created by Microsoft that
> generates all of the letters that appear in its letter columns. They are
> composed of generalized templates which vary from "good single issue" to
> "great crossover event" to "I love that unexpected guest appearance." All
> the editor/assistant editor has to do is fill in a couple of boxes with
> specific information, such as the name/gender of the letter writer, the
> issue number and the main characters in the story. And wah lah. No more
> worrying about filing up that extra page.
If that's true, how do you explain my letter showing up in last month's
X-Force (#92)?
Leary
Mike Hawco
Chris Dickinson wrote in message
<7l9i2c$sca$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>...
MH
mis...@nonono.bellsouth.net
<char...@futures.wharton.upenn.edu> wrote:
Have to strongly disagree on this. Faerber is a hack and reportedly,
the book is about to nosedive straight into the toilet as it turns more
and more into DeGrassi Mutant High.
Yujon3D
ferent reasons. For the most part, the core X-books aren't even on
my pull list any more, so I wasn't really bothered by the story or
creative team. I couldn't afford the self-abuse that comes with
staying on...
Trinity wrote:
>
> I just got my copy of X-Men in the mail, and I have to ask: Is X-Men
> really selling so well that they can put out garbage like this? The
> story involving Douglock and Red Skull was silly. (Not to mention
> insulting, I suppose nobody bothered to mention to the X-men
> "creative" team that the Skull died again just last month.
Not really. It seems that the Red Skull had one of those "comic-
book deaths" you keep reading about, where he was trapped inside of
some sort of energy matrix and the dialogue read something like "I
hope he teleported himself out of there before it collapsed and
destroyed him". Death is only a five-letter word in Marvel comics
any more.
> Damn, shouldn't there have been at least a tiny period of time be-
> fore they lugged his boring corpse back?)
I gave up hope of seeing things go at that pace long ago...
> And the artwork was... well, basically comparable to what you'd
> get if you chucked a box of crayolas into a pit of masturbating
> spider monkies. I haven't seen art this bad in any Marvel mag,
> -ever-. It reminds me of the kind of thing you'd see in pulp-grade
> fanzines.
I've seen worse (GENX #35), but Rick Leonardi is normally a very
good artist, although highly stylized. I tend to have a tolerance
for a greater range of artist styles, so it didn't really bother me
as much as the story, which was an excuse to spin off yet /another/
line of second-string superhero comics using the "Y2K Fear Of Tech-
nology" theme, did.
> Now, we all know that X-Men have been on autopilot for most of the
> 90's, but this is just embarrassing. I'd literally prefer the
> Saturday Morning cartoon version to what's currently happening in
> the book.
Me? I'd go back further than that. To when there was only UXM
and NEW MUTANTS, give or take a limited series or two, in fact...
> I didn't just feel disappointed, I felt... abused. Like somewhere
> back at Marvel, a meeting was held wherein somebody decided that
> since Xmen fans would buy anything, they could put their worst
> creative team on it, and therefore free up everyone with talent to
> work on books that actually require quality to sell.
My solution again was to drop the books until the quality went
back up again. It worked with GENX, so why not the core X-books?
> Sorry if I sound bitter, but I used to be a big xMen fan. What's
> happening now in the book is lunacy. The "anti-mutant" angle,
> compelling back in the 80's, is now a moldy cliche that doesn't even
> remotely ring true.
Although I do have issues with the anti-mutant sentiment which
date back to the late '80s, it hasn't gotten that much overexposure
during Alan Davis's run. If anything, I've moderated my stance on
it because of the obvious threats you get from Magneto and his ilk
(sorry, Alara), but the idea of /every/friggin'/human/being/on/the/
/friggin'/planet/ wanting to march off in the direction of the
Professor and his students with shotgun and torch in hand is the
pet peeve I'm holding on to. However, that is a discussion to be
held elsewhere...
> The character development is nil, there's no tension or drama, and
> basically I'm starting to wish that I hadn't subscribed so I
> didn't have to watch the travesty that the book has become. I
> literally don't even OPEN half the issues of xm and uxm that I get.
I never susbscribe any more. Not since the 160s, in fact. Not
subscribing gives you the freedom to "try before you buy", if your
dealer isn't the type to scream "This ain't a frikkin' library!" at
you, and you don't have to know that you've wasted $30 on something
you no longer enjoy.
As for characterization, it's never been the same since Claremont
first left the X-books. It'll never be the same any time the
writer or editor posts change hands. That is the problem with a
long-running monthly title in which the same characters remain in
place. You either hang on in hope of seeing something interesting,
or you drop the title when it no longer satisfies you.
I've done my ranting a couple of years ago when "Operation: Zero
Tolerance" and "Onslaught" were running their course. Welcome to the
club.
-- Yujon3D, deflating his chest now...
__
____ [ ] ____
/-- < Yujon3D "Yuj...@concentric.net" > --\
/-------------------------------------------------\
| Keeper of the Amelia Voght Flame |
) | http://www.concentric.net/~Yujon3d/index.shtml | (
( \ -= Fan-Art Gallery! Fan-Fiction Stories! =- / )
)) \ -= Plus the Yujon3D Random Muttering! =- / ((
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Yujon3D
How do we even know how it'll turn out? I think the book is right
on track for the type of story I expected at the beginning (which
must not have been what you wanted), which was a story about young
men and women who just happened to be mutants in the Marvel universe
with the X-Men as their benefactors, and not just "teen superheroes"
like another company's young crimefighters that we've been hearing
rumors about. But... "Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks"...
--
freshie
<ramber...@uclink4.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>I mean, actually, maybe I've been brainwashed, but Alan Davis is doing a
>good job. Its just that these plots are so simple and boring.
Errmmmm..... Alan Davis is doing the plots and little else.
Jay K. Ro
I think the "problem" with the X-Men is that they are TOO popular. They
sell too well. And when you have 2 core titles that consistently sell at
the top of the list, you don't want to change anything that might hurt
sales. That's most likely why Marvel's been so adamant about not changing
the status quo too much with the X-Men. Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Avengers
were all low-selling titles before they got "reborn" and revamped. Same
goes for the Marvel Knights titles. Until the X-books start to decline in
sales there won't be a good revamp any time soon. At least not one that
is innovative and effective enough to bring the books back to their past
lofty status. Uncanny was very good under Claremont until they introduced
the second X-book. There were just too many mutants to cover. Now it's
so convoluted and overpopulated that there is no mroe room for
characerization. Claremont did a good job of keeping the team roster to
around 7, a good number. But when it ballooned to around 14 with two
X-teams it got difficult to maintain cohesive and compelling
characterization. So I guess the only thing that I can do right now is to
voice my opinion to Marvel in the bluntest way possible, through my
wallet.
Jay Ro
"Bees are on the what now?"
< Homer J. Simpson
"If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let 'em go
because, man, they're gone."
< A Deep Thought by Jack Handey
GREGORY JONES
"Jay K. Ro" wrote:
>Uncanny was very good under Claremont until they introduced
> the second X-book. There were just too many mutants to cover. Now it's
> so convoluted and overpopulated that there is no mroe room for
> characerization. Claremont did a good job of keeping the team roster to
> around 7, a good number. But when it ballooned to around 14 with two
> X-teams it got difficult to maintain cohesive and compelling
> characterization. So I guess the only thing that I can do right now is to
> voice my opinion to Marvel in the bluntest way possible, through my
> wallet.
>
> Jay Ro
>
I thought it was pretty good with the 14 person roster and two teams.
It allowed more people to interact, and with two books, everyone could
be seen in one month and have impact on the story. What I don't
understand now is why they have two books for eight characters that
don't do anything that develops them as people. That seems more like a
waste than 14 people in two books. And Claremont wasn't always as great
as he seems (e.i. siege perilous).
-Jones
Jay K. Ro
>
>
> "Jay K. Ro" wrote:
> >Uncanny was very good under Claremont until they introduced
> > the second X-book. There were just too many mutants to cover. Now it's
> > so convoluted and overpopulated that there is no mroe room for
> > characerization. Claremont did a good job of keeping the team roster to
> > around 7, a good number. But when it ballooned to around 14 with two
> > X-teams it got difficult to maintain cohesive and compelling
> > characterization. So I guess the only thing that I can do right now is to
> > voice my opinion to Marvel in the bluntest way possible, through my
> > wallet.
> >
> > Jay Ro
> >
>
> I thought it was pretty good with the 14 person roster and two teams.
> It allowed more people to interact, and with two books, everyone could
> be seen in one month and have impact on the story. What I don't
> understand now is why they have two books for eight characters that
> don't do anything that develops them as people. That seems more like a
> waste than 14 people in two books. And Claremont wasn't always as great
> as he seems (e.i. siege perilous).
>
I DID enjoy the two titles at the start too, but with the two books too
many new plot devices and subplots were introduced, IMHO. Legacy Virus,
X-traitor, etc. that while very provoking, eventually lost interest and
momentum that would have otherwise made them good storylines. The X-books
eventually devlolved into nothing more than two types of stories: huge
major crossover events and the filler ("quiet") issues in-between.
Besides the whole 2 team concept was pretty much abandoned by the time AoA
was over. I do agree that having two X-books now is a waste, and that
Claremont was not the end all be all of X-writing, but since he did write
these characters for so long, he knew how to tell their stories with a
good amount of pacing and depth.
FabNic
>any more.
How many letters does death have at the other comic companies?
;-)
--fabian
Jesus
Bachalo's run), it was just that whole Emplate/M-Plate and crap with
Penance really being Monet... James Robinson's work was incredible, and
I hoped at the time that he would be the permanent writer, but... I've
been so traumatized that I doubt I'll ever go back. Faerber has yet to
win me back.
By the way, I do agree with the X-Force comment. Halloween Jack should
have stayed where he was. By the Armageddon Man arc was neat.
Jesus A. Torres
Michael Pierce
will use the Shattering skillfully enough so that he can centre in on the
different characters. As I said, I'm hoping, not predicting...
M.Pierce
"I loved you Kitty and Kurt"
Trinity
Dickinson <stor...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> Um... You must not have seen the art in Excalibur #37-39... <twitch> THE
> worst art I've EVER seen. I couldn't tell the demons apart from the West
> Coast Avengers <grin> (okay, I'm exaggerating, but only slightly....)
ROTFLOL! =) I guess I'd managed to block eXcalibur out of my memory
banks. Heh.
> Question: I don't read the X-books anymore, but didn't they give ANY
> explaination as to why Skull was in it? That's got to be the fastest
> resurrection ever.
None. And yeah, they set a new land-speed record for time between
death and ressurection. =)
I understand that the XMU and the MU are two increasingly different
things, (which is why they have two different NG's) but the inclusion
of the Skull kinda made it a cross-topic issue for me. Sheese, their
used to be a decent mourning period before they brought back dead
villians. Now there's not even time to bury them. I fully expect to
see a villian die on page two and come back on page 8 sometime soon.
Luis Ramirez
Leary wrote:
Patented Marvel Memory Implants. Works like a charm everytime.
Luis.
Michael Nay
100...@herald.cc.purdue.edu>,
"Jay K. Ro" <r...@purdue.edu> wrote:
>
> I think the "problem" with the X-Men is that they are TOO popular.
They
> sell too well. And when you have 2 core titles that consistently
sell at
> the top of the list, you don't want to change anything that might hurt
> sales. That's most likely why Marvel's been so adamant about not
changing
> the status quo too much with the X-Men. Cap, Thor, Iron Man, Avengers
> were all low-selling titles before they got "reborn" and revamped.
Same
> goes for the Marvel Knights titles. Until the X-books start to
decline in
> sales there won't be a good revamp any time soon. At least not one
that
> is innovative and effective enough to bring the books back to their
past
> lofty status.
There's going to be a big problem when the movie comes out then.
Providing it's anywhere being decent (With Bryan Singer directing it's
possible) the X-books are going to become very popular for a little
while. I wonder if Harris & Co. will force alot of retcons to make the
books match the movie's continuity?
>Uncanny was very good under Claremont until they introduced
> the second X-book. There were just too many mutants to cover. Now
it's
> so convoluted and overpopulated that there is no mroe room for
> characerization. Claremont did a good job of keeping the team roster
to
> around 7, a good number. But when it ballooned to around 14 with two
> X-teams it got difficult to maintain cohesive and compelling
> characterization.
I think the 2 book idea would be a good one if it were done right. I
think there should be different plots in each book with different X-Men
following them. Try to keep them seperate as much as possible (was
this the original idea for the two titles?). This is one of the
problems I have with Alan Davis' work right now. He's trying to cram
too many characters and too much mindless action into these titles.
> So I guess the only thing that I can do right now is to
> voice my opinion to Marvel in the bluntest way possible, through my
> wallet.
>
> Jay Ro
>
I'm going to voice my opinion WITH my wallet. I'll find Harris,
Powers, and Davis on the streets and start throwing wallets at them and
run away. It won't accomplish anything, but the absurdity of the
situation will be good for a laugh! :)
Nay.
-----------------------------------------
"Do not look upon me with resentment. I'm
only trying to make you less stupid."
-Wobbly Head Bob
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Luis Ramirez
freshie wrote:
He's doing the plots that are handed to him. Right now the book is on auto
pilot storyline mode. I guess I should be praising both Alan Davis and Terry
Kavanagh. Alan could be doing a worse job with these plots. Terry is
scripting the book pretty good.
Luis.
Luis Ramirez
FabNic wrote:
> >Death is only a five-letter word in Marvel comics
> >any more.
>
> How many letters does death have at the other comic companies?
> ;-)
LOL.
I honestly don't know how well the current Spidey writer is doing cause
I don't read that book. But maybe if you started scripting it, I would
start reading it!
Luis.
John E. Petty
number of ongoing, never ending plotlines. Wolverines adamantium and
his checkered past, The Legacy Virus, Who killed Graydon Creed,
Gambit's vial, the Twelve, etc, etc, etc. I know that it's rumored
that SOME of these will be tied up by years end, but Bob Harras has
confirmed that a great number won't even be touched (like the "who
killed GC" storyline).
I've been reading The X-Men since the 1960's. I bought GSXM off the
newstand in 1974 and followed their run for a long, long time. The
Calremont/Byrne issues, IMO, were magic. Now, however, I just find
that I really don't care a whole lot about the books at all anymore.
Too many storylines passing through too many books with too many
characters, and NOTHING EVER HAPPENS!
I'll probably give X-MAN and UNCANNY until te end of the year to see
if Marvel really follows through on thier plan to straighten out this
mess, but if not, I'm bailing.
Best,
John
That Guy
Trinity <dead_p...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:290619991018175460%dead_p...@hotmail.com...
> In article <7l9i2c$sca$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>, Chris
> Dickinson <stor...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
>
> > Question: I don't read the X-books anymore, but didn't they give ANY
> > explaination as to why Skull was in it? That's got to be the fastest
> > resurrection ever.
>
> None. And yeah, they set a new land-speed record for time between
> death and ressurection. =)
>
I'm the last person to apologize for Mark Powers but wasn't the Skull's
apparent "death" dealt with in X-Men '99, which went on sale last week? And
since the Skull only appeared (as the Skull and not the "mystery menace") on
the last page of the X-Men book prior to that, there really wasn't room to
give the explanation there.
If I'm wrong, it's only because I thumbed through the annual in the store
and decided not to waste the money on it.
Rhyme
Personally, I think Gen X isn't a good book. The people are out of character.
Paige for instance, has turned from someone who wants to be the best at
everything to a lovesick floozy.
*Rhyme*
Michael Pierce
kha...@mail.smartchat.net.au wrote in message
<3778FBC8...@mail.smartchat.net.au>...
>Perhaps we need another Mutant Massacre.
Who would get massacred? Two words....Nate and Nathan!
M.Pierce
Paul O'Brien
> The bad artwork I could tolerate (there were a few fill-ins during
>Bachalo's run), it was just that whole Emplate/M-Plate and crap with
>Penance really being Monet... James Robinson's work was incredible, and
>I hoped at the time that he would be the permanent writer, but... I've
>been so traumatized that I doubt I'll ever go back.
As I recall, James Robinson wrote the Flashback Month issue and a
three month chase scene for Operation: Zero Tolerance. I don't
recall either containing anything particularly gripping.
Paul O'Brien
pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk, www.esoterica.demon.co.uk
Irony in the UK.
Michael Nay
greenm...@earthlink.net (John E. Petty) wrote:
> The biggest problem with the X-Books right now, IMO, is the huge
> number of ongoing, never ending plotlines. Wolverines adamantium and
> his checkered past, The Legacy Virus, Who killed Graydon Creed,
> Gambit's vial, the Twelve, etc, etc, etc. I know that it's rumored
> that SOME of these will be tied up by years end, but Bob Harras has
> confirmed that a great number won't even be touched (like the "who
> killed GC" storyline).
>
> I'll probably give X-MAN and UNCANNY until te end of the year to see
> if Marvel really follows through on thier plan to straighten out this
> mess, but if not, I'm bailing.
>
> Best,
>
> John
I don't know. From what I gathered from that Wizard interview with
Harris & Co., It doesn't sound like their going to be tying up ANY
loose ends in the immediate future. Just creating new ones.
I loved one of the quotes (I'm not sure if it was Harris or Powers)
concerning a couple of the hanging threads when they said they should
have handled it THEN but now they don't feel there's enough interest in
tying them up. (I'm paraphrasing of course) What kind of attitude is
this for a fucking editor!? I've heard them go on about how they
control the "direction" of the titles, then they say something like
this!
"Oh, duh, you want us to tie up some loose ends?! Huh? JOSEPH IS A
CLONE!!! There that's all we have time for now." This is the attitude
that is sending loyal readers heading for the hills. I could see this
coming from a writer (who wants to write other peoples stories?) but
this IS the editors job, making sure these long terms stories are
resolved in some manner.
sigh. Maybe I'm expecting too much from this fucking company. Sorry
about the use of language, but this stuff kinda pisses me off.
Trinity
wrote:
> I'm the last person to apologize for Mark Powers but wasn't the Skull's
> apparent "death" dealt with in X-Men '99, which went on sale last week?
Maybe, I just -barely- got the Douglock issue. =) Marvel's
subscription department is apparently full of crackfiends; I almost
never get anything on time. Also, they won't even SEND some issues,
which they make up for by randomly sending me titles that I'm not even
subscribed to. The only reason I even knew the Skull was dead again
was that they sent me an issue of Cap instead of Avengers last month.
*grin*
But honestly, I really don't care if they explained it. Yes, I'm sure
they dredged up some lame reason to have him back. They usually do.
The point for me is: Why? Why oh why oh why? Aren't their enough
living villians? I guess I could see it if there were any kinda reason
why it had to be the Skull, instead of say, the Ospry. But they coulda
used -anybody-, so why insult us with yet another pointless
ressurection?
Kate the Short -- Spamblocked!
Um, I thought she was a lovesick floozy (who, still, wanted to be the
best) from issue #5 or so?
kate.
| Kate the Short - Patron Saint - http://www.enteract.com/~katew/ |
| Help for new users of news: http://www.enteract.com/~katew/nnq/ |
| rg.frp.dnd FAQ: http://www.enteract.com/~aardy/faq/rgfdfaq.html |
| xbooks FAQ: http://www.enteract.com/~katew/faqs/ - ICQ# 8375030 |
_____________________________________________________________________
It is not enough to have a good mind; the main thing is to
use it well. -- Rene Descartes
Kate the Short -- Spamblocked!
off-topic there...]
In article <7lb33j$nm6$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Michael Nay <micha...@my-deja.com> sat on the sofa and said:
>In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.990629...@herald.cc.purdue.edu>,
>"Jay K. Ro" <r...@purdue.edu> wrote:
>
>> I think the "problem" with the X-Men is that they are TOO popular.
>> Until the X-books start to decline in
>> sales there won't be a good revamp any time soon. At least not one
>> innovative and effective enough to bring the books back to their past
>> lofty status.
>
>There's going to be a big problem when the movie comes out then.
>Providing it's anywhere being decent (With Bryan Singer directing it's
>possible) the X-books are going to become very popular for a little
>while. I wonder if Harris & Co. will force alot of retcons to make the
>books match the movie's continuity?
I'm not sure. I mean, that was a worry when the cartoon came along, and
when the Generation X movie came along, and we never saw Morph in the
real X-Men world, or Buff and Refrax over in Generation X...
Kate the Short -- Spamblocked!
off-topic there...]
In article <3788027a...@news.giganews.com>,
greenm...@earthlink.net (John E. Petty) sat on the sofa and said:
>The biggest problem with the X-Books right now, IMO, is the huge
>number of ongoing, never ending plotlines. Wolverines adamantium and
>his checkered past, The Legacy Virus, Who killed Graydon Creed,
>Gambit's vial, the Twelve, etc, etc, etc. I know that it's rumored
>that SOME of these will be tied up by years end, but Bob Harras has
>confirmed that a great number won't even be touched (like the "who
>killed GC" storyline).
Well, at this point, finishing off the GC storyline would be pointless.
Heck, I'd almost forgotten about it when you brought it up.
Besides, have you seen the Danglers lists??? Those things are over on
Paul O'Brien's site. And man, even Claremont and Byrne left some things
open.
Jesus
>
> As I recall, James Robinson wrote the Flashback Month issue and a
> three month chase scene for Operation: Zero Tolerance. I don't
> recall either containing anything particularly gripping.
>
Sure, the Flashback issue was bad, but I liked the way the man handled
the characters in those three issues. Also, the artwork was really,
IMO, some of Bachalo's best.
Although I didn't like what Hama did with it, the idea of Monet being
two young girls struck me as being rather imaginative.
Jesus A. Torres
--
LostBoy
That Guy wrote in message <#o25jjlw#GA.148@cpmsnbbsa02>...
>
>Trinity <dead_p...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:290619991018175460%dead_p...@hotmail.com...
>> In article <7l9i2c$sca$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>, Chris
>> Dickinson <stor...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> > Question: I don't read the X-books anymore, but didn't they give ANY
>> > explaination as to why Skull was in it? That's got to be the fastest
>> > resurrection ever.
>>
>> None. And yeah, they set a new land-speed record for time between
>> death and ressurection. =)
>>
>
>apparent "death" dealt with in X-Men '99, which went on sale last week?
>since the Skull only appeared (as the Skull and not the "mystery menace")
on
>the last page of the X-Men book prior to that, there really wasn't room to
>give the explanation there.
>
>If I'm wrong, it's only because I thumbed through the annual in the store
>and decided not to waste the money on it.
Actually, I think you're right. Plus, I was by chance reading through
Captain America a few days ago, and I think they made it kind of obvious
that Red Skull didn't die. Captain America cheats death using a wish, and
then says something, I think, about how Red Skull probably had the same
idea, and did the same thing. I don't think he considered Red Skull dead
for a minute, so I wasn't too surprised to see him again. The books
explanation jibed with Captain America, but I was surprised to see him in an
X-book.
Yujon3D
>
> >Death is only a five-letter word in Marvel comics
> >any more.
>
> How many letters does death have at the other comic companies?
Same number. I guess the "splattered Superman" and "Batman ala
CPR" stories are an example of how true this is. I just think of
Marvel as having tried to be above that, but looking back at old
1960s Hulk stories reminds me that --/no/-- Marvel never really
was that different from said "distinguished competition" in the
first place.
--
Fey!
Jesus wrote in message <37794EFE...@lconn.com>...
As I understand it, that was LOBDELL's plot, not Hama's. I'm not sure who
wrote the exact issue #. It may have been Lobdell. And I liked it. I liked
the twins, though, as the twins. Hated it when they were turned into Penny.
kha...@mail.smartchat.net.au
>
> > "Jay K. Ro" wrote:
> > > the second X-book. There were just too many mutants to cover. Now it's
> > > so convoluted and overpopulated that there is no mroe room for
> > > characerization. Claremont did a good job of keeping the team roster to
> > > around 7, a good number. But when it ballooned to around 14 with two
> > > X-teams it got difficult to maintain cohesive and compelling
> > > characterization. So I guess the only thing that I can do right now is to
> > > voice my opinion to Marvel in the bluntest way possible, through my
> > > wallet.
>
> >
> > I thought it was pretty good with the 14 person roster and two teams.
> > It allowed more people to interact, and with two books, everyone could
> > be seen in one month and have impact on the story. What I don't
> > understand now is why they have two books for eight characters that
> > don't do anything that develops them as people. That seems more like a
> > waste than 14 people in two books. And Claremont wasn't always as great
> > as he seems (e.i. siege perilous).
> >
>
> I DID enjoy the two titles at the start too, but with the two books too
> many new plot devices and subplots were introduced, IMHO. Legacy Virus,
> X-traitor, etc. that while very provoking, eventually lost interest and
> momentum that would have otherwise made them good storylines. The X-books
> eventually devlolved into nothing more than two types of stories: huge
> major crossover events and the filler ("quiet") issues in-between.
> Besides the whole 2 team concept was pretty much abandoned by the time AoA
> was over. I do agree that having two X-books now is a waste, and that
> Claremont was not the end all be all of X-writing, but since he did write
> these characters for so long, he knew how to tell their stories with a
> good amount of pacing and depth.
Perhaps we need another Mutant Massacre.
Trevor Barrie
>> Marvel has a rather complex word processor created by Microsoft that
>> generates all of the letters that appear in its letter columns. They are
>> composed of generalized templates which vary from "good single issue" to
>> "great crossover event" to "I love that unexpected guest appearance." All
>> the editor/assistant editor has to do is fill in a couple of boxes with
>> specific information, such as the name/gender of the letter writer, the
>> issue number and the main characters in the story. And wah lah. No more
>> worrying about filing up that extra page.
>
> If that's true, how do you explain my letter showing up in last month's
>X-Force (#92)?
They also occasionally use it to generate Usenet posts.
mis...@nonono.bellsouth.net
<rh...@aol.com> wrote:
> >You are correct. The rest has just turned to drivel.
>
> Personally, I think Gen X isn't a good book. The people are out of
> character.
> Paige for instance, has turned from someone who wants to be the best at
> everything to a lovesick floozy.
>
> *Rhyme*
And after such a point was made about how she and Chamber never really
got up the cojones to have a coherent conversation, I'm left wondering
*when* would they ever have discussed renting a motorcycle and going
riding? I tried to be patient right up to that line, then the book lost
a reader.
bloo...@paranoia.uq.net.au
wrote:
>> Paige for instance, has turned from someone who wants to be the best at
>> everything to a lovesick floozy.
>
>And after such a point was made about how she and Chamber never really
>got up the cojones to have a coherent conversation, I'm left wondering
>*when* would they ever have discussed renting a motorcycle and going
>riding?
Let's see... anytime off-panel during the thirty-odd issues between
when they (kind of) got together and when they started
cold-shouldering each other?
I tried to be patient right up to that line, then the book lost
>a reader.
If a single line is enough to have that effect on you, I'm surprised
you're still reading comics at all.
Leary
>
> In article <7l9i2c$sca$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>, Chris
> Dickinson <stor...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> > worst art I've EVER seen. I couldn't tell the demons apart from the West
> > Coast Avengers <grin> (okay, I'm exaggerating, but only slightly....)
>
> ROTFLOL! =) I guess I'd managed to block eXcalibur out of my memory
> banks. Heh.
>
> > explaination as to why Skull was in it? That's got to be the fastest
> > resurrection ever.
>
> None. And yeah, they set a new land-speed record for time between
> death and ressurection. =)
>
> things, (which is why they have two different NG's) but the inclusion
> of the Skull kinda made it a cross-topic issue for me. Sheese, their
> used to be a decent mourning period before they brought back dead
> villians. Now there's not even time to bury them. I fully expect to
> see a villian die on page two and come back on page 8 sometime soon.
Actually, in every interview I've seen regarding Skull's involvement,
they've all said that he "with his last use of the Power Cosmic, Skull
teleports himself to a place where he can regain his power base. This
is Muir Isle, and Douglock in particular."
Skull never actually died. He was seconds away from death when he
saved himself with the cosmic cube.
Leary
mis...@nonono.bellsouth.net
<bloo...@paranoia.uq.net.au> wrote:
Let's try this again...
* I tried to be patient right up to that line....
Clearly 'a single line,' as stated, is not enough on its own.
Michael Pierce
>the characters in those three issues. Also, the artwork was really,
>IMO, some of Bachalo's best.
The artwork on the cover of James Robinson's first issue made them the kids
look like they were X-Babies. In my view I think this was Bachalo's worst.
M.Pierce
Michael Pierce
Kate the Short -- Spamblocked! wrote in message
<378c3c8e...@news.enteract.com>...
>I'm not sure. I mean, that was a worry when the cartoon came along, and
>when the Generation X movie came along, and we never saw Morph in the
>real X-Men world, or Buff and Refrax over in Generation X...
But Harly Quinn eventually reached Batman, so what if the movie is too
popular...
M.Pierce
Michael Nay
"Michael Pierce" <groov...@michaelpierce.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> But Harly Quinn eventually reached Batman, so what if the movie is too
> popular...
>
> M.Pierce
>
I know this is off topic, but exactly when did Harley Quinn make it
into the Batman comics?
Nay.
--
"Every third American devotes himself to
improving and uplifting his fellow citizen,
usualy by force." -H. L. Mencken
magn...@my-deja.com
editor for the X-titles , or somesuch , I悲 hire some of the many gals
who are writing fan-fiction . Anyone here who hasn愒 read " Betrayal "
by Valerie Jones ? If not , go and do it , it is the best X-Story
written ever ( You can get it at http://www.aa.net/~dblteam ), at least
for me . Or " Dreamweaver " and " True Believer " by Alicia McKenzie .
Or " Smoke and Mirrors " by Dawn L. Bobby .
Storys like these made me care about care characters I cared a cracked
piece of iron about , like Cable and Gambit ( of course , Fabian is
doing a very good job on his own for this now , so there . ) .
Why Marvels people haven愒 bothered to contact these people is beyond
me, and only explainable with that they don愒 care to read this
magnificent storys ( And stuff like the Betrayal - Arc could even be
woven into mainstream reality ... sigh . )
But , oh well , since nobody at Marvel seems to read this newsgroup
( except Fabian and Jay , who never expanded on the subject if they talk
about things like these to Harras , Powers and Liebig . ) , I guess that
this particular dream will never come true .
By the way , I just reread some old issues , and it is amazing how
Claremont managed back then to bring some great characterization to the
X-Men with one or two panels . Why can愒 current writers live up to
this? The last guys who made me care were Seagal and Kelly . The X-Men
have gone so , so ... so bland . The issues nowadays seem to be , well ,
so meaningless .
I guess I was supposed to feel something as they gave Genosha to
Magneto . Instead it was for me more along the lines of
" so what ? " .
It happened all so blandly , without going into the detail about what
all the X-people were feeling about it , that it just came off as a plot
device . Claremont could have made this huge , showing the impact it has
on the X-Men , other key players ( what do Apocalypse , Sinister and
company thinks about it ? ) , Magneto , the world and Genosha . Instead
it seemed all rather forced and contrived .
If Jay Faerber or Fabian Niciecza are reading this post , guys , you
know how much we are bitching here on RACMX . Have you ever talked to
Harras , Powers and Liebig about it ? Or to some others of the X-Writers
( by the way , send my support to John Francis Moore . He愀 doing a
great work on X-Force ( as are you on GenX and Gambit ) and he has my
support that Liefield doesn愒 even come near his book . And kick Erik
Larsen , because he愀 doing a good job now on Wolverine , but he should
stop introducing mystery characters every issues and begin resolving
these storylines finally . ) .
So , sorry for my poor grammar sometimes , but I惴 German , and should
get a little leeway , not ? :)
Magnus Knoblauch
magn...@my-deja.com
<mis...@nonono.bellsouth.net> wrote:
> Have to strongly disagree on this. Faerber is a hack and reportedly,
> the book is about to nosedive straight into the toilet as it turns
more
> and more into DeGrassi Mutant High.
>
What should I say ? Mmh ,mmh ... ah , yes . I´ll write you a poem :
Troll, Troll, Troll your post
Gently down the feed,
Merrily, Merrily, Merrily
A life is what you need
Paul O'Brien
<dead_p...@hotmail.com> writes
>
>But honestly, I really don't care if they explained it. Yes, I'm sure
>they dredged up some lame reason to have him back. They usually do.
>The point for me is: Why? Why oh why oh why? Aren't their enough
>living villians? I guess I could see it if there were any kinda reason
>why it had to be the Skull, instead of say, the Ospry. But they coulda
>used -anybody-, so why insult us with yet another pointless
>ressurection?
The Captain America story was clearly written with an obvious back
door to allow the Skull's resurrection - Cap's "gee, I hope he made
the right wish in time" speech. The Skull was never intended to
die permanently in that story, nor was he even shown convincingly
to have died, so the Rage Against The Machine storyline does not
really resurrect him. He was never dead in the first place.
Paul O'Brien
Spamblocked! <ka...@enteract.delete-me.com> writes
>
>Besides, have you seen the Danglers lists??? Those things are over on
>Paul O'Brien's site.
No, they're not. I don't actually maintain the things any more (as
far as I know nobody is at the moment). They're archived somewhere
or other, but not by me. I think you can get the link through
x-page.com.
Elayne Riggs
> Well , I have a rather interesting idea . If I´d own Marvel , or be the
> editor for the X-titles , or somesuch , I´d hire some of the many gals
> who are writing fan-fiction...
> Why Marvels people haven´t bothered to contact these people is beyond
> me...
Devin Grayson came from the fanfic arena. Clearly Marvel does contract
writers who've done fanfic in the past. I'm sure they believe, as I do,
that fanfic is often a great training ground for would-be professionals.
- Elayne
bloo...@paranoia.uq.net.au
wrote:
>> If a single line is enough to have that effect on you, I'm surprised
>> you're still reading comics at all.
>
>Let's try this again...
>
> * I tried to be patient right up to that line....
>
> Clearly 'a single line,' as stated, is not enough on its own.
Oh, I understand what you meant - but "that line" just seems to me to
be a surprising point at which to lose patience with a book after
(presumably) persevering through the mostly dreadful 30s and 40s.
mis...@nonono.bellsouth.net
*Lovely* attempt at casting stones.. unfortunately, the forementioned
was indeed my actual opinion, and as such no more a troll than any
uncritically fawning, "Such and so is a *great* writer; s/he's going
*great* things with the book; it's so *good*" sort of post.
"Yes, that's a *good* thing you did, sending him to the cornfield,
Anthony. And tomorrow's gonna be a *real good day*!"
mis...@nonono.bellsouth.net
<bloo...@paranoia.uq.net.au> wrote:
Oh! Yes, I see your point now, in that context.
Hrm.
Come to think of it, I cannot discern *why* that particular line was
the, ahem, proverbial straw. Go figure! It possibly has something to do
with the fact that the only comic I've actually been buying (as opposed
to browsing at the store) in quite some time is STRANGERS IN PARADISE.
And the departure of Hama and intense positive buzz I saw for Faerber's
work *on this series* probably caused me to set my expectations to
high.
Enh. Oh, well. In any case, that's a title that's going straight back
on the 'occasional browse in the shop' list. As opposed to X-Force,
which actually *does* seem to be getting more interesting lately.
Andy Sheets
> I know this is off topic, but exactly when did Harley Quinn make it
> into the Batman comics?
I don't think she has just yet. Paul Dini's writing a special No Man's Land
issue which will introduce her sometime soon.
Incidentally, she'll actually be the second character from the cartoon to be
introduced to the comics. The villain Lockup was the first.
Andy
Peter Lange
Elayne Riggs <fire...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:7ldueh$4lr$5...@news.panix.com...
Even then, she wasn't an immediate comic book success. She had to fight for
it.
If someone doesn't have the drive to sell themselves to a company instead of
waiting for the company to find them, do you really want them writing your
favorite comic book characters?
Also, being able to write prose doesn't necessarily relate to being able to
write a comic book. They have a lot of similarities, but they are not
exactly the same.
bloo...@paranoia.uq.net.au
>Come to think of it, I cannot discern *why* that particular line was
>the, ahem, proverbial straw. Go figure! It possibly has something to do
>with the fact that the only comic I've actually been buying (as opposed
>to browsing at the store) in quite some time is STRANGERS IN PARADISE.
>And the departure of Hama and intense positive buzz I saw for Faerber's
>work *on this series* probably caused me to set my expectations to
>high.
Thanks for explaining - this actually makes quite a bit of sense to me now.
(Although why "that line" still eludes me, but if you don't know either
then I'm not about to lose any sleep over it).
Samy Merchi
>> > Well , I have a rather interesting idea . If I悲 own Marvel , or be the
>> > editor for the X-titles , or somesuch , I悲 hire some of the many gals
>> > who are writing fan-fiction...
>> fanfic is often a great training ground for would-be professionals.
Agreed, in some aspects -- see below.
>Also, being able to write prose doesn't necessarily relate to being able to
>write a comic book. They have a lot of similarities, but they are not
>exactly the same.
Precisely! Writing fanfic is *immensely* useful practice vis-a-vis
plotting, characterization and related aspects of writing. However,
writing fanfic won't do *jack* about your ability to break down plots to
panels or pages, or use the page/panel-based format and pictorial strength
to their best advantage.
I've written fanfic for about three years now, and I can say that the
above statement is true at least in my case. I recently tried to turn one
of my stories into a comic-book plot, and I had immense trouble trying to
decide just how much or how little stuff I should show in each panel, not
to mention the problem of how much information I should give the artist,
and how much I could *rely* on the artist getting it across...
I eventually started sketching up the page designs with stick figures to
get *some* kind of a grasp of how to lay out a comic-book plot on a
panel/page basis. I think this has been immensely helpful for me, far more
so than my prose writing, because that's an aspect of comic-book writing
I've had little to no exercise in.
Of course, your mileage may vary.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Samy Merchi 1999 / sam...@utu.fi / http://mash.yok.utu.fi/~samerc
"Oooo! What have we here? Mask and tights?
You a professional wrestler or into...you know?"
"Heh. Um...model. Y'know...dancer. PRIVATE."
-- a female security guard and Iron Fist, IRON FIST (vol.3) #1
Lia Brown
>> <mis...@nonono.bellsouth.net> wrote:
>>
>> > Have to strongly disagree on this. Faerber is a hack and reportedly,
>> > the book is about to nosedive straight into the toilet as it turns
>> more
>> > and more into DeGrassi Mutant High.
>> >
>*Lovely* attempt at casting stones.. unfortunately, the forementioned
>was indeed my actual opinion, and as such no more a troll than any
>uncritically fawning, "Such and so is a *great* writer; s/he's going
>*great* things with the book; it's so *good*" sort of post.
That may be so, and you're of course perfectly welcome to your
opinions...but did you have to write them in such an inflammatory
manner? It seems to be an unnecessarily harsh way of getting your
point across. I imagine Jay would be much more open to your
constructive criticism if you didn't openly insult him in a public
forum, and in the end, wouldn't his hearing of your concerns be more
useful? Just a thought.
Lia,
besides, DeGrassi was a cool show ;)
"Isn't that a Commandment or something? Thou shalt cover thy ass?" --Jameel
Lia Brown, Mad Praetor and Grand High Duchess of the Procrastinators
ro...@golden.net "Societas ad Pyrem conservandum"
This .sig brought to you by the coalition to keep Pyro alive.
It's Freedom Force! http://tatooine.fortunecity.com/bear/353/ffcentral.html
Terrafamilia
Chris Dickinson wrote:
> > I haven't seen art this bad in any Marvel mag, -ever-.
>
> Um... You must not have seen the art in Excalibur #37-39... <twitch> THE
> worst art I've EVER seen. I couldn't tell the demons apart from the West
> Coast Avengers <grin> (okay, I'm exaggerating, but only slightly....)
Not to mention the last few issues of DOOM 2099.
Yeeech!
Ciao,
Terrafamilia
Terrafamilia
Paul O'Brien wrote:
> IThe Captain America story was clearly written with an obvious back
> door to allow the Skull's resurrection - Cap's "gee, I hope he made
> the right wish in time" speech. The Skull was never intended to
> die permanently in that story, nor was he even shown convincingly
> to have died, so the Rage Against The Machine storyline does not
> really resurrect him. He was never dead in the first place.
But couldn't they have given us some breathing space?
Ciao,
Terrafamilia
Terrafamilia
Jay K. Ro wrote:
> There were just too many mutants to cover. Now it's
> so convoluted and overpopulated that there is no mroe room for
> characerization.
If they would only let the Legacy Virus start killing name mutants again.
Revanche croaked. Ilyanna croaked. Mastermind croaked. Then Maddrox croaked
only to get better. Pyro still hasn't croaked yet. Moira says she's infected
but can anyone else really tell?The LV could have been used to clean up the
deadwood like Scourge was used to clear out the villianous riff-raff but
NOOOO. Most of those who have succumbed have been unnamed Genoshan mutates.
It's not *apparent* that it's much of a threat anymore. Who is the last
prominent established mutant who croaked?
Ciao,
Terrafamilia- who thinks the LV storyline has gone on way too long without any
resolution. I bet you couldn't tell. ;)
NyteKrwlr
>introduced to the comics. The villain Lockup was the first.
>
>Andy
>
Also if you want to include Batgirl to that too, she was first introduced into
the comic after she had appeared on the 60's Batman show (she was created to
boost ratings, seems that men liked it when a girl in leather would show up)
Craig
Fuzzy Elf Lover!
"I miss.....I need.......your laughter"
Ororo Munroe stands over her fallen comrade Kurt Wagner.
my web site
http://members.aol.com/NyteKrwlr//index.html
" Honey, we talked about that shirt!" Karen from "Will and Grace
Michael Pierce
mis...@nonono.bellsouth.net wrote in message <290619990755405839%
>Have to strongly disagree on this. Faerber is a hack and reportedly,
>the book is about to nosedive straight into the toilet as it turns more
>and more into DeGrassi Mutant High.
Putting two and two together, you think Jay is a hack and think the comic is
going to nosedive because Paige and Chamber never discussed getting a
motorcycle together actually on panel. Right.
M.Pierce
mis...@nonono.bellsouth.net
<groov...@michaelpierce.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
No, darling, addition is not your strong suit. I never said the comic
was going to nosedive *because of that.* I will say that the comic is
going to nosedive because of what I am told Jay is planning to dredge
up regarding some BIT PART CHARACTERS from previous years, instead of
actually developing new challenges for the kids which might allow them
to develop a dollop of maturity.
magn...@my-deja.com
sam...@utu.fi (Samy Merchi) wrote:
Yeah , okay . Point taken . But , hell , seeing people like Valerie
Jones writing one of the best stories I“ve had the pleasure to read in
my whole life , I wonder why Marvel ain“t picking up on people who are
so obviously highly talented .
Peter Lange
>Jones writing one of the best stories I“ve had the pleasure to read in
>my whole life , I wonder why Marvel ain“t picking up on people who >are
>so obviously highly talented .
Its not just that, though. Has she submitted to Marvel? Does she have a
portfolio of her writings to offer? Marvel doesn't need to hunt down
writers. They gets hundreds of submission from writers and artists every
month. Its up to these fanfic writers to make the effort to break into the
company
Andy Sheets
> Its not just that, though. Has she submitted to Marvel? Does she have a
> portfolio of her writings to offer? Marvel doesn't need to hunt down
> writers. They gets hundreds of submission from writers and artists every
> month. Its up to these fanfic writers to make the effort to break into the
> company
I can't remember where I heard it, but one thing that springs to mind is that
submission editors also tend to take general writing ability much more
seriously. That is, if you're a fanfic writer who wants to work for Marvel, I
understand that for the most part it's usually not a good idea to send fanfic
in as a sample because even if the actual writing is excellent, it can still
give the unfortunate impression that all you can write is one particular
character or set of characters and thus it's better to present non-comics
related samples. Or at least to present them in addition to the fanfic.
Of course I could be wrong. Just something I heard once, but it makes some
sense to me.
Andy
Leary
>
> Yeah , okay . Point taken . But , hell , seeing people like Valerie
> Jones writing one of the best stories I“ve had the pleasure to read in
> my whole life , I wonder why Marvel ain“t picking up on people who are
> so obviously highly talented .
Not to slander Valerie Jones' work, for I am mostly unfamiliar with it,
but it takes a lot more than just one great story to make it comics.
Above all else, a comics writer needs to be able to produce good work on
a schedule. Folks like Grayson and Faerber are reliable when it comes
to deadlines, and that reliability sings to editors. Now matter how
talented they are, if they couldn't meet deadlines, they wouldn't be
working.
Leary
Samy Merchi
> sam...@utu.fi (Samy Merchi) wrote:
>
>> Precisely! Writing fanfic is *immensely* useful practice vis-a-vis
>> plotting, characterization and related aspects of writing. However,
>> writing fanfic won't do *jack* about your ability to break down plots
>> to panels or pages, or use the page/panel-based format and pictorial
>> strength to their best advantage.
>Yeah , okay . Point taken . But , hell , seeing people like Valerie
>Jones writing one of the best stories I“ve had the pleasure to read in
>my whole life , I wonder why Marvel ain“t picking up on people who are
>so obviously highly talented .
Two main reasons that I can think of. One is what I said above -- prose
and comics are two different art forms. Now, Keith DeCandido, the editor
of Marvel's prose book stuffies, could 'pick up on people who are so
obviously highly talented', but it's much more unlikely that Marvel itself
would pick up on fanfic writers when they have nothing else to show than
their prose work.
The other reason is that life (and employment) doesn't tend to work that
way. You don't get work handed to you on a silver platter. To get work,
you have to go after it and work your ass off to get it. Especially in the
comics field where there's a ton of competition already. More than likely,
Marvel is more than busy enough fending off the tons of proposals sent
them by would-be writers, let alone start to talent scout for *more*.
How many workplaces do you know that go out to find people, rather than
let people come to them?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
-- Samy Merchi 1999 / sam...@utu.fi / http://mash.yok.utu.fi/~samerc
"The Zodiac have sabotaged the building's reactor."
"REACTOR? We've always been told Department H uses HYDRO-ELECTRIC
power!"
"It sounds better in the press releases."
-- General Clarke and Vindicator, ALPHA FLIGHT (vol.2.) #12
Elayne Riggs
> But , hell , seeing people like Valerie
> Jones writing one of the best stories I“ve had the pleasure to read in
> my whole life , I wonder why Marvel ain“t picking up on people who are
> so obviously highly talented .
Marvel doesn't "pick up on" writers. Marvel is not actively looking for
writers; they have plenty of people knocking on their doors already.
- Elayne
El Vato Loco
Terrafamilia <terr...@fgi.net> wrote in message
news:377B8A46...@fgi.net...
So I wasn't the only one who thought those last few DOOM 2099 issues
were total "artistic" trash...
I mean, really. For anyone who hasn't seen them, the artwork (and I stretch
the concept of the word by calling them "artwork") was so atrociuously
horrible, that, had the book not ended (probably due to the 'artwork'), I
would have dropped a book that I had been collecting since issue #1. Words
don't cover how bad they were. It was a particularly sad way to end what I
had thought was, for the most part, a great book.
Speaking of bad art, some of the art on WHAT IF (specifically #49 &
#50, "What if the Silver Surfer had kept the Infinity Gauntlet", & "What if
the Hulk had killed Wolverine" were plain, old BAD. In the Surfer issue,
Galactus actually came off in a few panels looking (I thought) like a
baboon. For years, I considered those the 2 worst artworked issues in
history.
Kenmlin
>#50, "What if the Silver Surfer had kept the Infinity Gauntlet", & "What if
>the Hulk had killed Wolverine" were plain, old BAD. In the Surfer issue,
>Galactus actually came off in a few panels looking (I thought) like a
>baboon. For years, I considered those the 2 worst artworked issues in
>history.
>
Could you list the credit for these issues if you can.
Sometimes a bad inker can really ruin a good pencil work. Sometimes a lousy
penciller leaves nothing for the inker to work on. I remember Dennis Janke
doing wonderful work on Jerry Ordway's pencils on Superman but he couldn't do
much iwth Jon Bognove's awful pencils.
Look at Cam Smith. One recent issue of Gen13 had multiple inkers and his stuff
looked crappy. I am thinking that I liked Adam Kubert because Mark Farmer was
saving his work.
Ken
Amos Keppler
>
> Terrafamilia <terr...@fgi.net> wrote in message
> news:377B8A46...@fgi.net...
> >
> >
> > Chris Dickinson wrote:
> >
> > > > I haven't seen art this bad in any Marvel mag, -ever-.
> > >
> > > Um... You must not have seen the art in Excalibur #37-39... <twitch> THE
> > > worst art I've EVER seen. I couldn't tell the demons apart from the West
> > > Coast Avengers <grin> (okay, I'm exaggerating, but only slightly....)
> >
> > Not to mention the last few issues of DOOM 2099.
> > Yeeech!
> >
> > Ciao,
> >
> > Terrafamilia
> >
>
> So I wasn't the only one who thought those last few DOOM 2099 issues
> were total "artistic" trash...
>
> I mean, really. For anyone who hasn't seen them, the artwork (and I stretch
> the concept of the word by calling them "artwork") was so atrociuously
> horrible, that, had the book not ended (probably due to the 'artwork'), I
> would have dropped a book that I had been collecting since issue #1. Words
> don't cover how bad they were. It was a particularly sad way to end what I
> had thought was, for the most part, a great book.
>
> #50, "What if the Silver Surfer had kept the Infinity Gauntlet", & "What if
> the Hulk had killed Wolverine" were plain, old BAD. In the Surfer issue,
> Galactus actually came off in a few panels looking (I thought) like a
> baboon. For years, I considered those the 2 worst artworked issues in
> history.
Rick Leonardi and Kevin Nowlan are my all time low X - Men pencillers
New Mutants #51 and the Leonardi X - Men issues quite simply ruined what
could have been good stories, for me.
I've always liked Alan Davis before, both as an artist and a writer,
but this time he seems to have stumbled into a bad gig. It's the editors
fault, though, not his.
Amos
--
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
< My virtual, wilderness community address is: >
< http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/6010/ >
< My address at midnight: >
¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤ http://w1.2561.telia.com/~u256100087/ ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤
Feel the heat of Firewind
http://w1.2561.telia.com/~u256100087/firewind.html
«We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well
that Death will tremble to take us»!
Charles Bukowski
Fred Garber
: magn...@my-deja.com wrote:
: >
: > Yeah , okay . Point taken . But , hell , seeing people like Valerie
: > Jones writing one of the best stories I“ve had the pleasure to read in
: > my whole life , I wonder why Marvel ain“t picking up on people who are
: > so obviously highly talented .
: Not to slander Valerie Jones' work, for I am mostly unfamiliar with it,
: but it takes a lot more than just one great story to make it comics.
: Above all else, a comics writer needs to be able to produce good work on
: a schedule. Folks like Grayson and Faerber are reliable when it comes
: to deadlines, and that reliability sings to editors. Now matter how
: talented they are, if they couldn't meet deadlines, they wouldn't be
: working.
: Leary
From what I understand, Faerber _is_ what you're looking for. He wrote
fanfic, and then decided to go after the writing job for money. And
he happened to succeed.
Hooray for Jay!
Who, despite the obviously devastating blows to his ego _my_
Usenet nitpicks must inflict :), is doing a really bang-up job, mainly
because he cares about the characters.
--
Fred Garber
Mail me? Send it to fga...@kent.edu, and not anything
else your newsreader supplies. I use a cheapo university
system, and it does strange things to the routings.
Kurt
El Vato Loco wrote:
> Terrafamilia <terr...@fgi.net> wrote in message
> news:377B8A46...@fgi.net...
> >
> >
> > Chris Dickinson wrote:
> >
> > > > I haven't seen art this bad in any Marvel mag, -ever-.
> > >
> > > Um... You must not have seen the art in Excalibur #37-39... <twitch> THE
> > > worst art I've EVER seen. I couldn't tell the demons apart from the West
> > > Coast Avengers <grin> (okay, I'm exaggerating, but only slightly....)
> >
> > Not to mention the last few issues of DOOM 2099.
> > Yeeech!
> >
> > Ciao,
> >
> > Terrafamilia
> >
>
> So I wasn't the only one who thought those last few DOOM 2099 issues
> were total "artistic" trash...
>
It's just the sad fact that there are alot of comics being published and only so
many great comic artists. Plus in the case of Doom 2099, why put a good artist
on a comic that's being canceled?
Albertolucci
- WHEN!!!??
Killing mutants is a good way, the only good way, I think, to re-estructure
the XU, because now it´s...well, I remember when Hary Seldon predicted the
inminent fall of the Galactic Empire, in "Fundation", by Isaac
Asimov...somethig like that...
And I think that killing X-characters could work. It wouldn´t be suficient,
OK, but it´s a good idea to begin. For example...STORM. She hasn´t such
misteries like Wolverine, her personality doesn´t longer exist,.. well,
personally, I hate her. But objectively, I think that she hasn´t very much
possibilities...Her death could make a bit of sense of her...And it would
be very interesting that she dead because LV
I hate my English level...(SIGH)
Albertolucci
>
>
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >8-I>
Albertolucci
> prominent established mutant who croaked?
>
or so...in Cable 40#
> Ciao,
>
"Hasta luego"
> Terrafamilia- who thinks the LV storyline has gone on way too long
without any
> resolution.
>
I do so..
Jay K. Ro
I wouldn't want to kill many of these characters, you never know when you
might want to use them again in the future, but I do think Marvel should
trim down its mutants. I always felt that Excalibur and X-FActor could
have benefited more from ousting the 2nd tier characters they had and
brought in more of the "big guns" like some of the original 5 or Logan or
Gambit. Instead those and the other non X-Men booksmostly centered around
the less-popular mutants. Marvel should take advantage of the Legacy
Virus, maybe have Beast find a "half-cure" that prevents death but also
has a side effect of cellular degeneration to the point where a) some
mutants get sick, so no longer able to actively fight or b) cause some to
lose their powers, thereby creating some drama amongst those who enjoy
being free of their powers and those who need them to live. Whatever
Marvel does, I don't want to see wholesale slaughter of long-established
characters unless it's done in a logical, sensible, and just plain
creative way. Just my thoughts.
Jay Ro
"Bees are on the what now?"
< Homer J. Simpson
"If you ever drop your keys into a river of molten lava, let 'em go
because, man, they're gone."
< A Deep Thought by Jack Handey
Evil Simon Skill
Trinity wrote in message <280619991756412670%dead_p...@hotmail.com>...
> The
>story involving Douglock and Red Skull was silly.
Perhaps, if you've just read that issue by itself. It's part of a story
*arc*. Alan Davis is doing good, which is way better than we've had since
the departure of S&K. Even Terry Kavanagh's scripting has picked up.
> (Not to mention
>insulting, I suppose nobody bothered to mention to the X-men "creative"
>team that the Skull died again just last month. Damn, shouldn't there
>have been at least a tiny period of time before they lugged his boring
>corpse back?)
I suppose you didn't bother to read the frickin' annual, either, where it
was explained how the Skull DIDN'T die, and there is a perfectly rational,
good explanation for it.
>And the artwork was... well, basically comparable to what
>you'd get if you chucked a box of crayolas into a pit of masturbating
>spider monkies. I haven't seen art this bad in any Marvel mag, -ever-
You haven't seen art by Cary Nord or Ashley Wood then?
[rest of rant SLASHed!]
> I literally don't even OPEN half the issues of xm and uxm that
>I get.
And, it shows, from your snap judgements. :-P
--evil simon
exiting nasty mode... now.
Amritpal Bhambra
to have gaps between the latest line of crossovers and "major" events, they
have served no real purpose, and have been dull as have the actual "events"
Magneto War, Search for Xavier and the 35th aniversay one were all built up
well but the endings where lacking. Davis is a good enough writer, but I
would prefers Lobdell, at least his stories had bite.
Amrit.
P.S. I thought that Casey was meant to be the new writer for the two X-men
boooks. His and Ladronns run on cable was probabally one of the best I have
ever read.
Paul O'Brien
<Amritpal...@btinternet.com> writes
>
>P.S. I thought that Casey was meant to be the new writer for the two X-men
>boooks.
No. He was supposedly approached to script Alan Davis's plots or
something, and he scripted two issues, but apparently Alan would
prefer to work with Terry Kavanagh.
Paul O'Brien
pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk, www.esoterica.demon.co.uk
Irony in the UK.
Amritpal Bhambra
>
> I thought so too until I read the Shattering and I realized the hectic
> pacing of the X-books has served a purpose - slowly drive professor x
around
> the bend. The hectic stroy lines have been necessary to make sense of the
> shattering after all it would be silly of prof x to flip out at the x-men
> about readiness if we have had nothing but down time over the past several
> months.
>
> MH
>
I haven't got any of the "Shattering" issues yet, so if they are the reason
for the way in which the last few issues have gone so be it. But lets hope
that they are better executed than the last few major "events" such as the
Magneto War, Search for Xaviar et al. They have had great potential but they
lacked that certain something in their delivery.
I have moaned about Davis's work on X-me\ Uncanny. But at least it has been
better than the Kelly and Seagle run. Between them they only had one
potentially interesting storyline and that was the Jean Grey/Phoenix thing.
Which would have been interesting.
Mike Hawco
Amritpal Bhambra wrote in message <7mad1l$5ej$1...@neptunium.btinternet.com>...
>I'm finding that the last few issues of X-men/Uncanny have just been
created
>to have gaps between the latest line of crossovers and "major" events, they
>have served no real purpose, and have been dull as have the actual "events"
>Magneto War, Search for Xavier and the 35th aniversay one were all built up
>well but the endings where lacking. Davis is a good enough writer, but I
>would prefers Lobdell, at least his stories had bite.
>
>Amrit.
Consul de Designers
> I thought so too until I read the Shattering and I realized the hectic
> pacing of the X-books has served a purpose - slowly drive professor x around
> the bend.
It makes pseudo-sense, but the books have been a pendulum plot. What I mean is
that yes, they want to show Xavier slowly going crazy, but then they show it
resolved by the end. Like in the X-Men Unlimited.
--
Consul de Designers,
[Jameson Stalanthas Yu, Shade and Sweet Water, mes amis and Edgerunners]
[Link at http://www-scf.usc.edu/~jamesony -X- ICQ 10208399]
[Joint Educational Project http://www.usc.edu/dept/LAS/JEP]
[Mutatis mutandis, strive to be humane, not human]
Gorok190
>better than the Kelly and Seagle run.
Got that right brother!
-Drew
Goro...@aol.com
"Son of b*tch must pay" - Jack Burton
Peter Likidis
Evil Simon Skill wrote:
> I suppose you didn't bother to read the frickin' annual, either, where it
> was explained how the Skull DIDN'T die, and there is a perfectly rational,
> good explanation for it.
An issue should stand alone. Not only that but when you are talking
about an event story that launches other books there is a good chance
than non X-shit readers might actually pick up a copy. You shouldn't
have to have things explained in an annual.
--
Peter Likidis - centu...@iname.com
"Once you start down the dark path it will forever dominate your destiny"
FREEEEEEEE things at Century City - http://centurycity.hypermart.net
The New Warriors - http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/5223/
It's Cold Outside - Red Dwarf - http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/5223/red_dwarf/
Evil Simon Skill
alone. *But*, if you wanted to know HOW the Skull survived, you had to get
the annual.
--evil simon
Peter Likidis wrote in message <3789A4CF...@senalink.com.au>...