X-Men religious affiliations
Chris Dodson
current X-Men for a story I'm submitting to Marvel. The only one I
know for sure is Nightcrawler (Catholic). I get the impression that
Wolverine is an atheist or agnostic, but I have no in-comic evidence
to support this. Any help you guys could give me would be greatly
appreciated. Also, in your responses, could you provide titles and
issue numbers of the comics in which the information is stated?
Thanks.
Tom Warren
a bit about this in there. And Wolvie is atheist probably, or some pagan
type.
Tom
"Chris Dodson" <chris...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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HBWolf21
supposed to be Protestant...those are the only ones I can think of off the top
of my head.
Joey
Mike Kantor
Storm believes in the "Bright Lady", not sure was that is...
I think Thor is obvious, but he isn't part of the X-Men
LoL! Religion is such a sack of crap.
"Chris Dodson" <chris...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
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Nichol
vampires. She fended them off using her Star of David, but Wolverine
made a cross with his claws and had vampires all over him. The point
was that a wearer's faith in a religious artifact protected them, not
the artifact itself. Wolverine had no faith in the cross, so therefore
it did nothing. That seems to be a clear hint that he's atheist,
agnostic, or something else besides Christian.
.:Nichol:.
Brian Caffrey
Brian
--
monkey monkey monkey monkey
__________________________________________
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icy queue47130468
Brian Doyle
Nightcrawler - Catholic
Shadowcat - Jewish
Magma - Worshipped the Roman pantheon when she thought she was a Nova Romani
Wolfsbane - A rather strict form of Protestant, not Wee Free, but heading that way.
Storm - Some sort of female nature divinity
Cannonball - Baptist
Colossus - As a good member of the USSR, probably agnostic.
Rogue and Wolverine - Both were shown praying in the X-Men cartoon, but in a fairly
non-demoninational way. It was in a Christian church.
mi me conmigo@hotmail.com Kenneth
I can onlu think of one reference, but there're plenty:
X-Men 108: Rogue says something like "Since you're the catholic in this
group, why don't you take care of the prayers?" and Rahne replies "I've been
doing so since we took off"
The dialogue is translated from my book, which is in spanish, so maybe those
were not the exact words, but it's there.
Kitty Pride is, of course, Jewish. Nightcrawler is a catholic. And...
well I cannot think of anyone more.
Oh! Storm belongs to a minorist cult of some sort, probably from Africa.
(Someone called Light Lady? sometimes the translations are quite vague).
Danielle Moonstar should belong to an animist american belief, and so does
Proudstar.
And maybe you should review the marriage of Cyclops & Phoenix, and look at
the priest marrying them... I just don't know where that one is.
Cable is Askani, and should not count as standard religion (I don't really
think that there are Askanians among us ;-))
And I guess that Magneto was a Jew, but I'm not so sure about that.
I can only recall Storm being abducted by "the Godess" in the "Infinity
Crusade", but maybe there were more X-men there, and that would mean they
had a religious feeling at all.
That's it. Again, sorry about mu poor English.
Jaime Įlvarez
Madrid, Spain
"HBWolf21" <hbwo...@aol.com> escribió en el mensaje
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mi me conmigo@hotmail.com Kenneth
so I guess it's been a misunderstanding in the spanish translations.
If she's protestant, and you're sure, with references, please post it, and I
will re-route it to the translator here in Spain. Sorry if my post was
inaccurate.
Jaime
Spain
"Kenneth" <yo mi me con...@hotmail.com> escribió en el mensaje
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> Jaime Álvarez
Brian Doyle
"Kenneth" <yo mi me con...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:addr7m$dce$1...@news.ya.com...
> Well, you guys seem to be pretty sure about Rahne Sinclair being Protestant,
> so I guess it's been a misunderstanding in the spanish translations.
>
> If she's protestant, and you're sure, with references, please post it, and I
> will re-route it to the translator here in Spain. Sorry if my post was
> inaccurate.
She makes references to the "Reverend Craig" being her guardian. The Catholic church
does not refer to a priest as Reverend, the Protestant church does.
She has also referred to Craig as being a "Minister", which, again, a Protestant
term, not Catholic.
See the issue of Excalibur that Warren Ellis wrote where Rhane confronts Craig.
Justin Samuels
"Brian Doyle" <brian...@afdigest.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:adddtl$7j5$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> "Chris Dodson" <chris...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1134e555.02060...@posting.google.com...
> > I'm looking for information on the religious beliefs of all the
> > current X-Men for a story I'm submitting to Marvel. The only one I
> > know for sure is Nightcrawler (Catholic). I get the impression that
> > Wolverine is an atheist or agnostic, but I have no in-comic evidence
> > to support this. Any help you guys could give me would be greatly
> > appreciated. Also, in your responses, could you provide titles and
> > issue numbers of the comics in which the information is stated?
>
> Nightcrawler - Catholic
> Shadowcat - Jewish
> Magma - Worshipped the Roman pantheon when she thought she was a Nova
Romani
> Wolfsbane - A rather strict form of Protestant, not Wee Free, but heading
that way.
> Storm - Some sort of female nature divinity
Which is stupid, no such religion exist in Africa. And while you do have
animist religions in Africa, the largest religion is Islam. Number 2 would
be Christianity. Number 3 would be various animist religions, grouped
together.
> Cannonball - Baptist
> Colossus - As a good member of the USSR, probably agnostic.
The USSR fell long after Colossus's death ,and it never wiped out all
religion. In AOA Colossus was refered to as Russian Orthodox Christian.
> Rogue and Wolverine - Both were shown praying in the X-Men cartoon, but in
a fairly
> non-demoninational way. It was in a Christian church.
Sunspot is Catholic.
Iceman is probably Protestant.
>
>
Brian Doyle
"Justin Samuels" <som...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:JLwK8.61786$xN5.15...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> "Brian Doyle" <brian...@afdigest.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:adddtl$7j5$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> > Storm - Some sort of female nature divinity
>
> Which is stupid, no such religion exist in Africa. And while you do have
> animist religions in Africa, the largest religion is Islam. Number 2 would
> be Christianity. Number 3 would be various animist religions, grouped
> together.
Storm is only half African, her father was American, and as someone who was, for some
considerable time, worshipped as a deity herself, I'm prepared to believe her
religious views are not the norm. BAsically I'd say she's a Gaia-ist. She reveres
nature in all it's forms and perceives it as embodied in a female presence akin to
the Western view of "Mother Nature".
> > Cannonball - Baptist
> > Colossus - As a good member of the USSR, probably agnostic.
>
> The USSR fell long after Colossus's death ,
Ummm... Huh? Colossus died last year. The UUSR fell long BEFORE his death, but was
still active when he was recruited (I know, shifting the timeline to play catchup
with real events now makes that unlikely, but we play the hand we're dealt)
> and it never wiped out all religion.
No, but Piotr was shown as being a good communist working down on the collective,
and, in order to remain a good communist, would probably not have been raised with
much of a religious background.
Certainly he was never (in any title I read) heard to utter an oath involving a
deity, which most others would or did. "By the White Wolf" is a cultural reference I
never did work out, but I'm guessing it's not religious.
>In AOA Colossus was refered to as Russian Orthodox Christian.
AoA can hardly be viewed as being the mainstream.
> Sunspot is Catholic.
Forgot about him!
Dan
>From: chris...@yahoo.com (Chris Dodson)
>Date: 6/2/02 12:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <1134e555.02060...@posting.google.com>
Storm worships some nameless goddess. Cannonball is a Christian denomination.
Shadowcat is Jewish. Not sure about the rest. Most writers take it for
granted that a) characters believe in a god and b) that they're
Judeo-Christian.
Dan
aa #1617
apatriot #14
2nd Class Citizen
Dan
>From: hbwo...@aol.com (HBWolf21)
>Date: 6/2/02 12:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20020602005205...@mb-co.aol.com>
Dani Moonstar worships the Great Spirit, though I'm not sure how that conflicts
with being an Asgardian goddess.
BlakGard
True enough, although just because Craig was a Protestant does not mean
Rahne is. I believe she was shown praying at a Catholic church in one of the
early New Mutants issues.
mi me conmigo@hotmail.com Kenneth
news:20020603002704...@mb-bg.aol.com...
I thought about it yesterday as I posted. I really think Moonstar did not
truely worship the Asgard Pantheon. She was turned into a valkyrie, but she
didn't actually worship Odin. Gee, it's difficult to describe her believes,
because normally people belong to a religion for a matter of faith, which is
unnecesary when you know for sure that Supreme Being is indeed real. Well,
I don't know...
The Question
Forge follows some form of shamanistic tradition I believe.
I don't think there's any definite statement about Gateway, but it could be
easily assumed he essentially believes in the Dreamtime (if you care to
make broad generalisations based on faith and race, which we know Marvel
would never do).
Sabra would be Jewish
I don't think there are any followers of Buddist, Islamic or Shinto
traditions
--
Jon
-----
We are the people our parents warned us about, and we're here to stay.
mi me conmigo@hotmail.com Kenneth
"The Question" <ques...@spin.net.au> escribió en el mensaje
news:3CFB5E5C...@spin.net.au...
hindu, wasn't he?
And my guess is that "Skin" (Angelo Espinosa) is a catholic too, but that is
just a guess.
Patrick McClue
"The Question" <ques...@spin.net.au> wrote in message
news:3CFB5E5C...@spin.net.au...
> Chris Dodson wrote:
> >
> > I'm looking for information on the religious beliefs of all the
> > current X-Men for a story I'm submitting to Marvel. The only one I
> > know for sure is Nightcrawler (Catholic). I get the impression that
> > Wolverine is an atheist or agnostic, but I have no in-comic evidence
> > to support this. Any help you guys could give me would be greatly
> > appreciated. Also, in your responses, could you provide titles and
> > issue numbers of the comics in which the information is stated?
> > Thanks.
>
> Forge follows some form of shamanistic tradition I believe.
>
> I don't think there's any definite statement about Gateway, but it could
be
> easily assumed he essentially believes in the Dreamtime (if you care to
> make broad generalisations based on faith and race, which we know Marvel
> would never do).
>
follow that path.
> Sabra would be Jewish
>
Sabra was an X-Man?
> I don't think there are any followers of Buddist, Islamic or Shinto
> traditions
>
Sunfire might be Buddist/Shintoist and M might be Muslim.
Patrick
Sequoia Swennes
BlakGard <blak...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:a8GK8.61583$ec1.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
New Mutants #12, page 11:
{Caption} Nearby, Rahne Sinclair steps hesitantly - almost fearfully - into
a church...
{Rahne's thought bubbles} "If Reverend Craig saw me now, he'd have a fit.
To him, Catholics are agents of the devil. But we all believe in God, an'
read the same bible - an' I can find no Scots Presbyterian cairk in the
city - an' I so need to pray. Surely, the Lord won't mind which house I
pray in, so long as it's to him."
Jim Longo
> I'm looking for information on the religious beliefs of all the
> current X-Men for a story I'm submitting to Marvel. The only one I
> know for sure is Nightcrawler (Catholic). I get the impression that
> Wolverine is an atheist or agnostic, but I have no in-comic evidence
> to support this.
When the X-Men were kidnapped by the Brood, Wolverine came upon
Nightcrawler praying. During the resultant conversation, Wolvie
asserted that tried religion once, that it was a mistake, and that he
now believes only in what his senses tell him.
Any help you guys could give me would be greatly
> appreciated. Also, in your responses, could you provide titles and
> issue numbers of the comics in which the information is stated?
> Thanks.
As has been stated, Kitty Pryde is Jewish, and there's an ongoing
debate about whether Magneto was, but he has stated that as a boy, he
"turned his back on God forever."
Karma, I think, was a converted Catholic.
j.
Jim Longo
> current X-Men for a story I'm submitting to Marvel. The only one I
> know for sure is Nightcrawler (Catholic). I get the impression that
> Wolverine is an atheist or agnostic, but I have no in-comic evidence
> to support this.
When the X-Men were kidnapped by the Brood, Wolverine came upon
Nightcrawler praying. During the resultant conversation, Wolvie
asserted that tried religion once, that it was a mistake, and that he
now believes only in what his senses tell him.
Any help you guys could give me would be greatly
> appreciated. Also, in your responses, could you provide titles and
> issue numbers of the comics in which the information is stated?
> Thanks.
As has been stated, Kitty Pryde is Jewish, and there's an ongoing
Consul de Designers
> > I don't think there are any followers of Buddist, Islamic or Shinto traditions
> Sunfire might be Buddist/Shintoist and M might be Muslim.
Morocco's highest represented religion is Islam.
--
" ... I will find you a place to live, give you all I have to give ... "
http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~jamesony/d_extra/WhenWeDance.mp3
Jameson Stalanthas Yu
(remove the 'x's for e-mail) xdedes...@dolphins-cove.com
http://www.dolphins-cove.com
Dan
>Date: 6/3/02 4:53 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <a8GK8.61583$ec1.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com>
>True enough, although just because Craig was a Protestant does not mean
>Rahne is. I believe she was shown praying at a Catholic church in one of the
>early New Mutants issues.
Probably just because it was available. Since Craig raised Rahne from birth it
seems unlikely that she has a different religion.
mi me conmigo@hotmail.com Kenneth
Could anybody post the exact words Rogue says to Rahne in X-Men #108
(Jan/2001), page 5, asking her to pray?
The missundestood came up because in the spanish translation, she says
something like "Since you're the catholic in this group..." and I'd like to
know if it's a translation mistake, or it was just like that in the
original.
I know... you probably don't care about that, after all, you read your
comic-books in english, but some of us don't have that chance, and have to
put up with poor translations. I just want to know who is to blame ;-)
Thanks for your patience.
Jaime
Dan
>Date: 6/3/02 8:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <adfmpa$jvu$1...@news.ya.com>
>I thought about it yesterday as I posted. I really think Moonstar did not
>truely worship the Asgard Pantheon. She was turned into a valkyrie, but she
>didn't actually worship Odin.
No, I wasn't implying she did. I simply said she was one of them. I would
think it would be a conflict to _be_ a god when you felt the one you worshipped
was the only "real" one.
Gee, it's difficult to describe her believes,
>because normally people belong to a religion for a matter of faith, which is
>unnecesary when you know for sure that Supreme Being is indeed real. Well,
>I don't know...
Dani doesn't know any supreme being is real. She knows gods exist and none
shown are supreme.
Justin Samuels
"Dan" <dannyb...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20020603135514...@mb-fs.aol.com...
In Marvel, the force the Living Tribunal Represents is the surpreme
being/God.
Brian Doyle
"Sequoia Swennes" <ath...@easy-pages.com> wrote in message
news:t_MK8.160$jG2.18...@news.netcarrier.net...
> New Mutants #12, page 11:
>
> {Caption} Nearby, Rahne Sinclair steps hesitantly - almost fearfully - into a
church...
> {Rahne's thought bubbles} "If Reverend Craig saw me now, he'd have a fit.
> To him, Catholics are agents of the devil. But we all believe in God, an'
> read the same bible - an' I can find no Scots Presbyterian cairk in the
> city - an' I so need to pray. Surely, the Lord won't mind which house I
> pray in, so long as it's to him."
Aha, so she IS Presbyterian. Thanks!
Brian Doyle
> I thought about it yesterday as I posted. I really think Moonstar did not
> truely worship the Asgard Pantheon. She was turned into a valkyrie, but she
> didn't actually worship Odin. Gee, it's difficult to describe her believes,
> because normally people belong to a religion for a matter of faith, which is
> unnecesary when you know for sure that Supreme Being is indeed real. Well,
> I don't know...
There was an interesting issue where Magma and Empath discuss faith, Magma has MET
Hercules so knows her Pantheon to be real, whereas Empath, a Catholic (in name if not
in deed) has never met his deity, so they ponder which is the stronger faith....
Justin Samuels
>
> "Justin Samuels" <som...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:JLwK8.61786$xN5.15...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...
> >
> > "Brian Doyle" <brian...@afdigest.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> > news:adddtl$7j5$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> > > Storm - Some sort of female nature divinity
> >
> > Which is stupid, no such religion exist in Africa. And while you do have
> > animist religions in Africa, the largest religion is Islam. Number 2
would
> > be Christianity. Number 3 would be various animist religions, grouped
> > together.
>
> Storm is only half African, her father was American, and as someone who
was, for some
> considerable time, worshipped as a deity herself, I'm prepared to believe
her
> religious views are not the norm. BAsically I'd say she's a Gaia-ist. She
reveres
> nature in all it's forms and perceives it as embodied in a female presence
akin to
Storm was raised in Egypt, moved southward through the Sudan, and spent time
in Kenya. The Egypt and the Sudan are Muslim, with Christianian minorities.
Kenya is more Christian, but with a substantial Muslim population. African
Americans are Christian mostly.
So her father could have no influence on Storm's decision to worship this
nameless Goddess. Actually, the cartoons and the movies have made no
mention of this "Goddess' and I notice lately in X-Treme X-Men neither has
Storm. So I would say have dropped that religion from her.
>
> > > Cannonball - Baptist
> > > Colossus - As a good member of the USSR, probably agnostic.
> >
> > The USSR fell long after Colossus's death ,
>
> Ummm... Huh? Colossus died last year. The UUSR fell long BEFORE his death,
but was
> still active when he was recruited (I know, shifting the timeline to play
catchup
> with real events now makes that unlikely, but we play the hand we're
dealt)
I meant the USSR fell long before Colossus's death.
>
> > and it never wiped out all religion.
>
> No, but Piotr was shown as being a good communist working down on the
collective,
> and, in order to remain a good communist, would probably not have been
raised with
> much of a religious background.
The Russian Orthodox church remained fairly strong under communism ane came
back with a vengegance after the fall.
>
> Certainly he was never (in any title I read) heard to utter an oath
involving a
> deity, which most others would or did. "By the White Wolf" is a cultural
reference I
> never did work out, but I'm guessing it's not religious.
>
> >In AOA Colossus was refered to as Russian Orthodox Christian.
>
> AoA can hardly be viewed as being the mainstream.
No, but it meant the writers keeping up with the times. After the collapse
of the Soviet Union, people in the former Soviet Union found their old
religions ,Christianity, Islam,and Judaism.
>
> > Sunspot is Catholic.
>
> Forgot about him!
Why?
>
>
Justin Samuels
"Consul de Designers" <xdedes...@dolphins-cove.com> wrote in message
news:3CFBAA34...@dolphins-cove.com...
> Patrick McClue wrote:
> > > I don't think there are any followers of Buddist, Islamic or Shinto
traditions
> > Sunfire might be Buddist/Shintoist and M might be Muslim.
>
> Morocco's highest represented religion is Islam.
M is Algerian not Moroccan, but still, all North Africa is predominately
Muslim. So most likely she is Muslim.
Justin Samuels
"Dan" <dannyb...@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
> >Subject: X-Men religious affiliations
> >From: chris...@yahoo.com (Chris Dodson)
> >Date: 6/2/02 12:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time
> >Message-id: <1134e555.02060...@posting.google.com>
> >
> >I'm looking for information on the religious beliefs of all the
> >current X-Men for a story I'm submitting to Marvel. The only one I
> >know for sure is Nightcrawler (Catholic). I get the impression that
> >Wolverine is an atheist or agnostic, but I have no in-comic evidence
> >to support this. Any help you guys could give me would be greatly
> >appreciated. Also, in your responses, could you provide titles and
> >issue numbers of the comics in which the information is stated?
>
> Storm worships some nameless goddess.
Not any more, they've dropped all references about this ot her character .
Read XX lately.
Cannonball is a Christian denomination.
> Shadowcat is Jewish. Not sure about the rest. Most writers take it for
> granted that a) characters believe in a god and b) that they're
> Judeo-Christian.
Their are major thematic differences between Judaism and Christianity, so I
would not say assume one is Judeo-Christian.
Christian Henriksson
con...@hotmail.com> sayeth thus:
>Thanks... that should clear it all. Now... I'd like to know something...
>Could anybody post the exact words Rogue says to Rahne in X-Men #108
>(Jan/2001), page 5, asking her to pray?
>
>The missundestood came up because in the spanish translation, she says
>something like "Since you're the catholic in this group..." and I'd like to
>know if it's a translation mistake, or it was just like that in the
>original.
>
>I know... you probably don't care about that, after all, you read your
>comic-books in english, but some of us don't have that chance, and have to
>put up with poor translations. I just want to know who is to blame ;-)
What Rogue says in English is: "Bein' our resident church-girl, why
don't you handle prayers?"
Christian Henriksson
(che...@tiscali.se)
--
"The big danger isn't the evil of evil people;
it's the silence of good people."
CleV
<mcc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>"The Question" <ques...@spin.net.au> wrote in message
>news:3CFB5E5C...@spin.net.au...
>> I don't think there are any followers of Buddist, Islamic or Shinto
>> traditions
>Sunfire might be Buddist/Shintoist and M might be Muslim.
Mariko uttered "Amaterasu preserve us!" in her very first appearance -
she must have been shinto.
Adam T. Reid
I don't think there are any followers of Buddist, Islamic or Shinto
traditions
>>
Unless you count, of course the Japanese characters (Sunfire Sunpyre, Silver
Samurai, Matsu'o, Revanche, Mariko, etc.) that pop up every once and awhile.
Japanese generally practice Buddhist or Shinto beliefs, sometimes both.
I can only say for certain that the Yoshidas practiced Shinto traditions,
notably at M'iko and Logan's aborted wedding back in the UXM # 170's.
"We are in a race between education and Catastrophe"
CleV
>I don't think there are any followers of Buddist, Islamic or Shinto
>traditions
>>>
Jetstream was an arab, so has a high likelihood of being muslim.
Brian Doyle
> In Marvel, the force the Living Tribunal Represents is the surpreme
> being/God.
Except that no one I have ever read of worships it. It acknowledges that it's power
is only over this Multiverse. Quasar has seen the Omniverse, where I assume it has no
power.
Brian Doyle
>
> "Brian Doyle" <brian...@afdigest.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:adea2l$uvb$4...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
some
> > considerable time, worshipped as a deity herself, I'm prepared to believe her
> > religious views are not the norm. BAsically I'd say she's a Gaia-ist. She reveres
> > nature in all it's forms and perceives it as embodied in a female presence akin
to
> > the Western view of "Mother Nature".\
>
> Storm was raised in Egypt, moved southward through the Sudan, and spent time
> in Kenya. The Egypt and the Sudan are Muslim, with Christianian minorities.
> Kenya is more Christian, but with a substantial Muslim population. African
> Americans are Christian mostly.
>
> So her father could have no influence on Storm's decision to worship this
> nameless Goddess.
Why not? He was still her father, regardless of the prevailing religion of the region
she was in. She certainly has never displayed any traits of any major organised
religion except the previously mentioned gaia-ism / animism.
>Actually, the cartoons and the movies have made no mention of this "Goddess'
Not relevant to the comics incarnation.
> and I notice lately in X-Treme X-Men neither has
> Storm. So I would say have dropped that religion from her.
She is still linked to the biosphere of the planet, which makes her sensitive to
natural occurences. I'd assume she still has her nature based beliefs, but just
doesnt mention it any more.
> > > Sunspot is Catholic.
> >
> > Forgot about him!
>
> Why?
Simple, I never liked him, so I don't spend much time thinking about him. :)
Nichol
> traditions
I don't recall Jubilee's religious affiliation ever being stated;
she's ethnically Chinese, and could be Christian, atheist, or
Buddhist. Would depend on how long her family's been in America, I
suppose.
.:Nichol:.
Dan
>Date: 6/3/02 2:18 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <upOK8.64872$xN5.16...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>
>In Marvel, the force the Living Tribunal Represents is the surpreme
>being/God.
Possibly, but there's no significant proof of that. Besides, Dani doesn't know
that being.
Prestorjon
current X-Men for a story I'm submitting to Marvel. The only one I
know for sure is Nightcrawler (Catholic).>>
Nightcrawler is Catholic. Kitty Pryde is Jewish. Wolverines is probably
aetheistic/agnostic. Storm is apparently an animist or polytheist of some
sort. Thunderbird would appear to be a Hindu (I don't think they've been
specific but he's not a Sikh or a Jain and I'm pretty sure he's not a MUslim.
He might be a Catholic.) As for the other's I don't know. Since most are from
America or other European countries they're probably at least nominally
Christian. Angel, being a good WASP, is probably an Episcopalian. Chamber is
probably C of E. Rogue could be anything, maybe Baptist.
-----------------
He had been our Destroyer, the doer of things
We dreamed of doing but could not bring ourselves to do,
The fears of years, like a biting whip,
Had cut deep bloody grooves
Across our backs.
-Etheridge Knight
Prestorjon
Proudstar>>
Do we know that? Quite a few American Indians are Christians.
>And I guess that Magneto was a Jew, but I'm not so sure about that.
Not to provoke another argument about this but yeah he is a Jew although it
would appear that he's not a practicing one.
Prestorjon
conflicts
with being an Asgardian goddess.>>
Probably not at all. In general polytheists are less fussy about this sort of
thing. Since they've got several gods instead of just one exclusive one it
usually doesn't matter much if someone worships a new god because they're just
one more god among many.
Prestorjon
vampires. She fended them off using her Star of David, but Wolverine
made a cross with his claws and had vampires all over him. The point
was that a wearer's faith in a religious artifact protected them, not
the artifact itself. Wolverine had no faith in the cross, so therefore
it did nothing. That seems to be a clear hint that he's atheist,
agnostic, or something else besides Christian.>>
If we're thinking of the same issue, the one where Dracula goes after Storm
(which oddly enough I first saw in a Dutch version), then what happened was
that Kitty actually went after Dracula with a cross and he simply batted it
away and grabbed her by the neck at which point he burned himself on her star
of david.
Prestorjon
traditions>>
For Shinto Sunfire possibly? For Buddhist Karma? No Islamic mutants that I'm
aware of (perhaps the Shadow King) but Arabian Knight was a Muslim hero.
Dan
>Date: 6/4/02 10:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time
>Message-id: <20020604221328...@mb-fw.aol.com>
>
><<I don't think there are any followers of Buddist, Islamic or Shinto
>traditions>>
>
>For Shinto Sunfire possibly? For Buddhist Karma? No Islamic mutants that
>I'm
>aware of (perhaps the Shadow King) but Arabian Knight was a Muslim hero.
Karma's Christian, possibly Catholic. I seem to recall that it was these
beliefs that led her to leave her younger siblings in the care of Father
Michael Bowen (Nightcrawler's priest and Dagger's uncle).
BlakGard
news:20020604220159...@mb-fw.aol.com...
> <<Danielle Moonstar should belong to an animist american belief, and so
does
> Proudstar>>
>
> Do we know that? Quite a few American Indians are Christians.
I agree that it's difficult to assume. There's a preponderance of Native
American faiths that combine traditional spirituality with Christianity,
blurring the lines quite a bit.
CleV
><<Dani Moonstar worships the Great Spirit, though I'm not sure how that
>conflicts
>with being an Asgardian goddess.>>
>
>Probably not at all. In general polytheists are less fussy about this sort of
>thing. Since they've got several gods instead of just one exclusive one it
>usually doesn't matter much if someone worships a new god because they're just
>one more god among many.
Sure, it's only the people of the book (muslims, christians, jews) who
have a "jealous" god.
Brian Doyle
"CleV" <CL...@balJUNKcab.ch> wrote in message news:3cfe7d3...@news.balcab.ch...
Tell that to half the cast of Greek and/or Roman mythology where the Gods are a VERY
possessive bunch who exact vengeance on anyone and anything that pisses them off even
slightly.... Consider Arachnae who was driven to the point of suicide or even the
demi-god Hercules, who was driven mad.
The Norse Gods don't seem much better, with Loki being a not very pleasant sort to
anyone.
CleV
Sorry, I meant "jealous" in the sense of not accepting any other gods
but themselves, nothing to do with jealousy.
Brian Doyle
"CleV" <CL...@balJUNKcab.ch> wrote in message news:3cfe962c...@news.balcab.ch...
Well, I was kind of meaning that too. Hera and Zeus, IIRC, were particularly prone to
being annoyed when people worshipped pther members of the same pantheon...
Ahhh, the Greek myths, soap opera for the BC era!
Prestorjon
a VERY
possessive bunch who exact vengeance on anyone and anything that pisses them
off even
slightly.... Consider Arachnae who was driven to the point of suicide or even
the
demi-god Hercules, who was driven mad.
The Norse Gods don't seem much better, with Loki being a not very pleasant sort
to
anyone.>>
The Greek and Norse gods were a jealous vindictive bunch of so and so's who
were always trying to put one over on each other but the religion recognized
that all of these beings were gods and was fairly free with regard to worship
of other gods. The Romans for example didn't have any problem per se with
Christians worshipiung Jehovah. What they had a problem with was the
millenlial/anti-governmental aspects of early christianity as well as the
Christians failure to pay the Emperor the proper reverence due him.
Menshevik
>specific but he's not a Sikh or a Jain and I'm pretty sure he's not a MUslim.
He made a few Hindu-type exclamations in XXM, e.g. after
Psylocke's death.
>probably C of E. Rogue could be anything, maybe Baptist.
Way back during Secret Wars II (UXM #203) she said something
like "If I believed in God I'd ask for forgiveness."
Tilman
"Who wants to read something about this subject will find it in a book, the
title of which I've forgotten. But it's the 42nd chapter."
Professor Johann Georg August Galletti (1750-1828)
Menshevik
>Samurai, Matsu'o, Revanche, Mariko, etc.) that pop up every once and awhile.
>Japanese generally practice Buddhist or Shinto beliefs, sometimes both.
>I can only say for certain that the Yoshidas practiced Shinto traditions,
>notably at M'iko and Logan's aborted wedding back in the UXM # 170's.
And in #173 we also see that there is a giant Buddha statue
in the garden of the Yashida ancestral seat.
Menshevik
>>
>> Morocco's highest represented religion is Islam.
>
>M is Algerian not Moroccan, but still, all North Africa is predominately
>Muslim. So most likely she is Muslim.
With the very Catholic-sounding family name Saint-Croix
(Holy Cross) I find that rather unlikely. Had she converted
to Islam, she would presumably have changed that.
Menshevik
>>
IIRC, he somewhat unsuccessfully tries NOT to follow it ;-)
Brian Doyle
> The Greek and Norse gods were a jealous vindictive bunch of so and so's
who
> were always trying to put one over on each other but the religion
recognized
> that all of these beings were gods and was fairly free with regard to
worship
> of other gods. The Romans for example didn't have any problem per se with
> Christians worshipiung Jehovah. What they had a problem with was the
> millenlial/anti-governmental aspects of early christianity as well as the
> Christians failure to pay the Emperor the proper reverence due him.
I see what you mean... I am, however, genuinely curious as to what do you
mean by "millenial" in this context?
Michael W Crichton
Justin Samuels wrote in message ...>news:adddtl$7j5$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>
>> "Chris Dodson" <chris...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1134e555.02060...@posting.google.com...
>> > I'm looking for information on the religious beliefs of all the
>> > current X-Men for a story I'm submitting to Marvel. The only one I
>> > Wolverine is an atheist or agnostic, but I have no in-comic evidence
>> > to support this. Any help you guys could give me would be greatly
>> > appreciated. Also, in your responses, could you provide titles and
>> > issue numbers of the comics in which the information is stated?
>>
>> Nightcrawler - Catholic
>> Shadowcat - Jewish
>> Magma - Worshipped the Roman pantheon when she thought she was a Nova
>Romani
>> Wolfsbane - A rather strict form of Protestant, not Wee Free, but heading
>that way.
>
>> Storm - Some sort of female nature divinity
>
>Which is stupid, no such religion exist in Africa.
Are you really suggesting that out of the hundreds of animistic/pagan
religions in Africa, NOT ONE has any sort of nature goddess? Upon what are
you basing this ridiculous assertion?
Christian Henriksson
(Prestorjon) sayeth thus:
><<Tell that to half the cast of Greek and/or Roman mythology where the Gods are
>a VERY
>possessive bunch who exact vengeance on anyone and anything that pisses them
>off even
>slightly.... Consider Arachnae who was driven to the point of suicide or even
>the
>demi-god Hercules, who was driven mad.
>
>The Norse Gods don't seem much better, with Loki being a not very pleasant sort
>to
>anyone.>>
>
>The Greek and Norse gods were a jealous vindictive bunch of so and so's who
>were always trying to put one over on each other
The Norse gods? Really? Could you name an example of this outside of
Loki, who wasn't a god?
Christian Henriksson
(che...@tiscali.se)
--
"The big danger isn't the evil of evil people;
it's the silence of good people."
Brian Doyle
"Christian Henriksson" <che...@tiscali.se> wrote in message
news:0revfuokttae1ar2u...@4ax.com...
> The Norse gods? Really? Could you name an example of this outside of
> Loki, who wasn't a god?
I'd say that any theological concept who can come up with Ragnarok as an end of the
world scenario are not exactly the most easygoing guys in the cosmos. :)
Justin Samuels
Infinity Crusade the other cosmic beings claimed that it(the force the
Tribunal Represents) is surpreme.
The writers probably got the idea to give the Tribunal three faces from the
Holy Trinity.
>
Justin Samuels
Read upon the Yoruba Gods, who are just as possessive. This religion
orginated in Nigeria, but is practiced in South America and the Caribbean.
Anyone who loves Greek Mythology will love this.
Oya is a particular goddess from this pantheon(Yoruba). She is a powerful
sorceress, who controls the wind and the rains . She is a warrior woman.
She also controls fire, is the goddess of the grave, and dwells in the
market place.
http://www.blueroebuck.com/Goddess/oya.htm
http://www.cybercomm.net/~grandpa/oyax.html
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/5599/orisa.htm
http://www.blueroebuck.com/Goddess/orishas.html
For anyone interested in further reading, books can be foudn in the library
or bookstore.
>
>
Justin Samuels
"Michael W Crichton" <mwcri...@home.com> wrote in message
news:adobu...@enews2.newsguy.com...
In Storm's so called religion, she worshipped a female creator which is
simply called goddess. Yes, i am suggesting there is no such religion.
Animistic religions in Africa do not have a female creator of the universe,
and I would challenge anyone to present an ethnic group that has one.
Also, worshippers of these religions give very specific names to their gods
,and Storm's religion and goddess have no name.
Thank god they dropped that goddess crap from her vocabulary.
Also, these religions generally have names.
And as I said, the biggest religion in Africa is Islam, Number 2 is
Christianity.
>
>
>
Brian Doyle
> Oya is a particular goddess from this pantheon(Yoruba). She is a powerful
> sorceress, who controls the wind and the rains . She is a warrior woman.
> She also controls fire, is the goddess of the grave, and dwells in the
> market place.
Talk about multi-tasking!
Brian Doyle
> We have never seen the power the Living Tribunal Represents, but during
the
> Infinity Crusade the other cosmic beings claimed that it(the force the
> Tribunal Represents) is surpreme.
From their point of view, yes, doesn;t mean they can see the whole picture.
>
> The writers probably got the idea to give the Tribunal three faces from
the
> Holy Trinity.
Except the Tribunal has no separateness to it, the best being that the faces
have assigned duties, IIRC.
Three is a principle number in many pantheons; the Norns, the Hecate, the
Fates, the Furies, heck maybe even the Graces! :) Past, present, future.
Heavens, seas and afterlife etc..
Brian Doyle
> In Storm's so called religion, she worshipped a female creator which is
> simply called goddess. Yes, i am suggesting there is no such religion.
> Animistic religions in Africa do not have a female creator of the
universe,
> and I would challenge anyone to present an ethnic group that has one.
Well, there's the Greeks. The first living thing in the entire universe was
the female Khaos, who represented the fabric of the universe itself
> Also, worshippers of these religions give very specific names to their
gods
> ,and Storm's religion and goddess have no name.
In some religions (Hebrew, early Christianity and others) the "true" name of
God is viewed as being holy and not to be used, aliases were adopted instead
such as "I am" in Christianity.
> Thank god they dropped that goddess crap from her vocabulary.
In other words dropped a character trait she's had for thirty years for no
reason? Why would she suddenly lose her faith? If you're going to do
something like that, try giving a reason!
> And as I said, the biggest religion in Africa is Islam, Number 2 is
> Christianity.
And Ororo spent some time being wroshipped as a goddess, neither Islam nor
Christianity would have followers who would worship her, nor use such a term
on a mortal, so whatever faith her worshippers had it's not either of those
two.
Bonehammer
> Piotr was shown as being a good communist working down on the collective,
> and, in order to remain a good communist, would probably not have been raised with
> much of a religious background.
>
> Certainly he was never (in any title I read) heard to utter an oath involving a
> deity, which most others would or did. "By the White Wolf" is a cultural reference I
> never did work out, but I'm guessing it's not religious.
Funny, I posted a similar msg the other day... but I guess the info
would be useful in this thread too. "Bozhe moi", one of his favourite
exclamations, means "My God".
Not that this indicates a particularly deep religious faith, anyway,
but there you go.
HTH
Bonehammer
Christian Henriksson
As opposed to Armageddon and all those other apocalyptic ends that all
religions seem to have? :)
However, an apocalyptic end of the world does not necessarily mean
that the gods of that religion are jealous and vindictive, does it?
Christian Henriksson
Brian Doyle
"Christian Henriksson" <ora...@hem.passagen.se> wrote in message
news:a8b16830.02060...@posting.google.com...
> "Brian Doyle" <brian...@afdigest.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<adoj2p$mhl$5...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> > "Christian Henriksson" <che...@tiscali.se> wrote in message
> > news:0revfuokttae1ar2u...@4ax.com...
> > > The Norse gods? Really? Could you name an example of this outside of
> > > Loki, who wasn't a god?
> >
> > I'd say that any theological concept who can come up with Ragnarok as an
end of the
> > world scenario are not exactly the most easygoing guys in the cosmos. :)
>
> As opposed to Armageddon and all those other apocalyptic ends that all
> religions seem to have? :)
Oh absolutely! :) The Apocalypse has the cool Four Horsemen. Ragnarok has a
chick sailing a ship made out of dead men's fingernails.... YUCK!
> However, an apocalyptic end of the world does not necessarily mean
> that the gods of that religion are jealous and vindictive, does it?
It does show they seem to get a bit ticked off at each other to the point of
their final battle destroying creation.
EBailey140
>Date: 6/3/02 1:30 PM Central Daylight Time
>Message-id: <aBOK8.64905$xN5.16...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com>>news:adea2l$uvb$4...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...>> news:JLwK8.61786$xN5.15...@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com...>> > news:adddtl$7j5$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
>>
>> > > Storm - Some sort of female nature divinity
>> >
>> > animist religions in Africa, the largest religion is Islam. Number 2
>would
>> > be Christianity. Number 3 would be various animist religions, grouped
>> > together.
>>
>> Storm is only half African, her father was American, and as someone who
>was, for some
>> considerable time, worshipped as a deity herself, I'm prepared to believe
>her
>> religious views are not the norm. BAsically I'd say she's a Gaia-ist. She
>reveres
>> nature in all it's forms and perceives it as embodied in a female presence
>akin to
>> the Western view of "Mother Nature".\
>
>Storm was raised in Egypt, moved southward through the Sudan, and spent time
>in Kenya. The Egypt and the Sudan are Muslim, with Christianian minorities.
>Kenya is more Christian, but with a substantial Muslim population. African
>Americans are Christian mostly.
>
>So her father could have no influence on Storm's decision to worship this
>nameless Goddess. Actually, the cartoons and the movies have made no
>mention of this "Goddess' and I notice lately in X-Treme X-Men neither has
>Storm. So I would say have dropped that religion from her.
The cartoons and movies aren't canon, and haven't said one thing or the other.
The comics have had her saying "Goddess" quite often over the years, so it's
safe to say she's not Moslem or Christian.
It doesn't really matter whether or not nature goddess religions are common in
Africa in the real world, as I'm pretty sure there aren't that many weather
controlling mutants there, either.
>>
>> Certainly he was never (in any title I read) heard to utter an oath
>involving a
>> deity, which most others would or did. "By the White Wolf" is a cultural
>reference I
>> never did work out, but I'm guessing it's not religious.
>>
>> >In AOA Colossus was refered to as Russian Orthodox Christian.
>>
>> AoA can hardly be viewed as being the mainstream.
>
>No, but it meant the writers keeping up with the times. After the collapse
>of the Soviet Union, people in the former Soviet Union found their old
>religions ,Christianity, Islam,and Judaism.
Since AOA spun off from the mainstream Marvel Universe, there's no reason not
to accept Piotr was brought up Orthodox.
>>
>> > Sunspot is Catholic.
>>
>> Forgot about him!
>
>Why?
Kurt's also Catholic, of course. Jean would seem to be, too, but she's also
studied Kabala. Remy being raised Catholic makes sense, given his background.
Kitty's Jewish. Magnus was Jewish, but didn't practice. Rahne's Presbyterian.
Logan's not Christian, but not neccessarily athiest. He could well be
Buddhist. Xorn's Buddhist.
E
BlakGard
Annoyed perhaps, but tolerant. Besides, the Greeks worshipped the entire
pantheon; most just chose to venerate particular gods/goddess above others,
like Athena in Athens, Ares in Sparta, etc. The examples you gave were what
happened when you directly or indirectly pissed a god/goddess off, not
because they worshipped other gods.
BlakGard
All religions have their eschatological myths. Personally, I'd take Ragnarok
over Revelations any day.
BlakGard
1. No mention has been made as to whether or not Ororo's "Goddess" is the
creator of her religion. She's referred to as an Earth goddess, perhaps akin
to Asase Ya (perhaps not -- several other African goddesses can fit).
2. A few African people do, in fact, have female creators and/or supreme
deities, including the Ovambo and Fon.
That said, Ororo is a ficticious character, whose mother was a spiritual
leader of a ficticious tribe in Africa. Frankly, I see no need for the book
to conform to the real-world.
> Also, worshippers of these religions give very specific names to their
gods
> ,and Storm's religion and goddess have no name.
Just because no name has been given doesn't mean the goddess doesn't have a
name. The Christian god has a name (many, in fact), yet most seem to refer
to it as "God."
> Thank god they dropped that goddess crap from her vocabulary.
You mean: "Thank god they stripped her of her self."
> Also, these religions generally have names.
Not really... not that it's really relevant.
> And as I said, the biggest religion in Africa is Islam, Number 2 is
> Christianity.
Irrelevant. Storm is neither, nor was her mother, nor was the tribe that
worshipped her as a goddess. Islam and Christianity may be the largest
religions in Africa, but they are far from being the only religions,
especially in the area that Ororo resided in. The people of Kenya and
Tanzania, the areas in which Ororo spent the most amount of time, are
between 20-30% animists/polytheists (non-Islam and non-Christian).
CleV
<som...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>For anyone interested in further reading, books can be foudn in the library
>or bookstore.
You don't say! :-)
CleV
wrote:
>"Justin Samuels" <som...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:UZUL8.1328$Dw1.7...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>> In Storm's so called religion, she worshipped a female creator which is
>> simply called goddess. Yes, i am suggesting there is no such religion.
>> Animistic religions in Africa do not have a female creator of the
>universe,
>> and I would challenge anyone to present an ethnic group that has one.
>Well, there's the Greeks. The first living thing in the entire universe was
>the female Khaos, who represented the fabric of the universe itself
He did say Africa. Only example I can think of would be Egypt,
although I can't remember if Nut was the creatrix.
>> Thank god they dropped that goddess crap from her vocabulary.
>In other words dropped a character trait she's had for thirty years for no
>reason? Why would she suddenly lose her faith? If you're going to do
>something like that, try giving a reason!
Agreed. But I don't think it's definitively gone, just not currently
mentioned.
Christian Henriksson
<b.d...@rl.ac.uk> sayeth thus:
>
>"Christian Henriksson" <ora...@hem.passagen.se> wrote in message
>news:a8b16830.02060...@posting.google.com...
>> "Brian Doyle" <brian...@afdigest.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:<adoj2p$mhl$5...@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>...
>> > "Christian Henriksson" <che...@tiscali.se> wrote in message
>> > news:0revfuokttae1ar2u...@4ax.com...
>> > > The Norse gods? Really? Could you name an example of this outside of
>> > > Loki, who wasn't a god?
>> >
>> > I'd say that any theological concept who can come up with Ragnarok as an
>end of the
>> > world scenario are not exactly the most easygoing guys in the cosmos. :)
>>
>> As opposed to Armageddon and all those other apocalyptic ends that all
>> religions seem to have? :)
>
>Oh absolutely! :) The Apocalypse has the cool Four Horsemen. Ragnarok has a
>chick sailing a ship made out of dead men's fingernails.... YUCK!
Not just a chick - there were a couple others as well. Note also that
Ragnarök has cool fights between Thor and the Midgard Serpent, Odin
and the Fenris Wolf, and Heimdall and Loki, IIRC.
>> However, an apocalyptic end of the world does not necessarily mean
>> that the gods of that religion are jealous and vindictive, does it?
>
>It does show they seem to get a bit ticked off at each other to the point of
>their final battle destroying creation.
No, because the final battle isn't between gods, it's between gods on
one side and giants and monsters on the other.
Brian Doyle
> >Oh absolutely! :) The Apocalypse has the cool Four Horsemen. Ragnarok has a
> >chick sailing a ship made out of dead men's fingernails.... YUCK!
>
> Not just a chick - there were a couple others as well. Note also that
> Ragnarök has cool fights between Thor and the Midgard Serpent, Odin
> and the Fenris Wolf, and Heimdall and Loki, IIRC.
Fair enough, that'd keep the ratings up I suppose!
> >> However, an apocalyptic end of the world does not necessarily mean
> >> that the gods of that religion are jealous and vindictive, does it?
> >
> >It does show they seem to get a bit ticked off at each other to the point of
> >their final battle destroying creation.
>
> No, because the final battle isn't between gods, it's between gods on
> one side and giants and monsters on the other.
Well, speaking as one of the mortal schmucks caught in between, that'd make me feel
so much better! :)
Brian Doyle
"CleV" <CL...@balJUNKcab.ch> wrote in message news:3d00fa3...@news.balcab.ch...
> On Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:58:43 +0100, "Brian Doyle" <b.d...@rl.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >"Justin Samuels" <som...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:UZUL8.1328$Dw1.7...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> >> In Storm's so called religion, she worshipped a female creator which is
> >> simply called goddess. Yes, i am suggesting there is no such religion.
> >> Animistic religions in Africa do not have a female creator of the
> >universe,
> >> and I would challenge anyone to present an ethnic group that has one.
>
> >Well, there's the Greeks. The first living thing in the entire universe was
> >the female Khaos, who represented the fabric of the universe itself
>
> He did say Africa.
liberally.
>Only example I can think of would be Egypt,
> although I can't remember if Nut was the creatrix.
Nut was the sky goddess, a cow who gave birth to the sun every day and swallowed it
at night (Ouch!).
The source of all life and creation was Atum, a god, who made creation out of the
swirling chaos that was known as Nu (Representing the Nile, which was the source of
all water and fertility)
> >In other words dropped a character trait she's had for thirty years for no
> >reason? Why would she suddenly lose her faith? If you're going to do
> >something like that, try giving a reason!
>
> Agreed. But I don't think it's definitively gone, just not currently
> mentioned.
One would hope so...
Prestorjon
(Holy Cross) I find that rather unlikely. Had she converted
to Islam, she would presumably have changed that.>>
Algeria was a French Colony so it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people there
have French surnames inclduign ones which might be somewhat odd translations.
-----------------
He had been our Destroyer, the doer of things
We dreamed of doing but could not bring ourselves to do,
The fears of years, like a biting whip,
Had cut deep bloody grooves
Across our backs.
-Etheridge Knight
Prestorjon
Psylocke's death.>>
Yeah. As I said nothing specific that i can remember but most of his
references have been to Hindu related things and Hindus are around 80% of the
Indian population.
Now that I think of it it would be interesting to see a Sikh hero but with the
turban he would probably arouse unfortunate memoreis of the Arabina Knight.
Maybe a Sikh woman.
Prestorjon
religions seem to have? :)>>
The concept of Revelation in Christianity (not sure what place, if any it
occupies in SIlam or Judaism) is somewhat different than Raganarok since
Reveltation inolves the second coming of Christ and the end of the world but
the evenutal triumph of God. Ragnarok involves not only the end of the world
but the deaths of the Gods and their enemies triumph.
Graeme
news:20020608003458...@mb-ms.aol.com:
> The concept of Revelation in Christianity (not sure what place, if any
> it occupies in SIlam or Judaism) is somewhat different than Raganarok
> since Reveltation inolves the second coming of Christ and the end of
> the world but the evenutal triumph of God. Ragnarok involves not only
> the end of the world but the deaths of the Gods and their enemies
> triumph.
Actually their enemies die, too, so it's a very mixed triumph at best.
Graeme
BlakGard
news:3d00fa3...@news.balcab.ch...
> wrote:
>
> >"Justin Samuels" <som...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:UZUL8.1328$Dw1.7...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
>
> >> In Storm's so called religion, she worshipped a female creator which is
> >> simply called goddess. Yes, i am suggesting there is no such religion.
> >> Animistic religions in Africa do not have a female creator of the
> >universe,
> >> and I would challenge anyone to present an ethnic group that has one.
>
> >Well, there's the Greeks. The first living thing in the entire universe
was
> >the female Khaos, who represented the fabric of the universe itself
>
> He did say Africa. Only example I can think of would be Egypt,
> although I can't remember if Nut was the creatrix.
You're thinking of Nun, from whence sprung Re (Ra). Nut wasn't much of a
creation goddess.
> >> Thank god they dropped that goddess crap from her vocabulary.
>
> >In other words dropped a character trait she's had for thirty years for
no
> >reason? Why would she suddenly lose her faith? If you're going to do
> >something like that, try giving a reason!
>
> Agreed. But I don't think it's definitively gone, just not currently
> mentioned.
Agreed. Rumours of its abandonment are highly exaggerated.
BlakGard
And it should be noted that Ragnarok is NOT the final battle. Their are
survivors, and they recreate the universe. Very Crisis-like.
Menshevik
>(Holy Cross) I find that rather unlikely. Had she converted
>to Islam, she would presumably have changed that.>>
>
>Algeria was a French Colony so it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people
>there
>have French surnames inclduign ones which might be somewhat odd translations.
Well, I suppose the more obvious explanation would be:
Scott Lobdell goofed. :-)
Tilman
"Who wants to read something about this subject will find it in a book, the
title of which I've forgotten. But it's the 42nd chapter."
Professor Johann Georg August Galletti (1750-1828)
BlakGard
news:20020608003458...@mb-ms.aol.com...
> <<As opposed to Armageddon and all those other apocalyptic ends that all
> religions seem to have? :)>>
>
> The concept of Revelation in Christianity (not sure what place, if any it
> occupies in SIlam or Judaism) is somewhat different than Raganarok since
> Reveltation inolves the second coming of Christ and the end of the world
but
> the evenutal triumph of God. Ragnarok involves not only the end of the
world
> but the deaths of the Gods and their enemies triumph.
Not true. Ragnarok has the end of the world, the deaths of most gods, but
the survivors (which numbered quite a few) defeat ALL of the giants and
monsters, thus creating a paradisical universe. Revelation does not have the
end of the world at all. It just "prophecizes" the destruction of evil upon
the world, thus creating a paradisical world. The two are very similar.
Michael W Crichton
Well, I would love to indulge you, but it looks like BlakGard beat me to it,
when he posted:
>1. No mention has been made as to whether or not Ororo's "Goddess" is the
>creator of her religion. She's referred to as an Earth goddess, perhaps
akin
>to Asase Ya (perhaps not -- several other African goddesses can fit).
>2. A few African people do, in fact, have female creators and/or supreme
>deities, including the Ovambo and Fon.
>
I'm sure that I could find several more examples, if I had a few hours to
spend searching. Still not used to the awesome power of the internet, are
you kid?
>Also, worshippers of these religions give very specific names to their gods
>,and Storm's religion and goddess have no name.
>
Maybe she just doesn't use it? The idea of a deity having a secret name, not
to be heard by unbelievers, isn't that unusual.
>Thank god they dropped that goddess crap from her vocabulary.
>
Yes, drop the most central aspect of her character for no apparent reason,
how nice of them. :-P
Nichol
> <<He made a few Hindu-type exclamations in XXM, e.g. after
> Psylocke's death.>>
>
> Yeah. As I said nothing specific that i can remember but most of his
> references have been to Hindu related things and Hindus are around 80% of the
> Indian population.
>
> Now that I think of it it would be interesting to see a Sikh hero but with the
> turban he would probably arouse unfortunate memoreis of the Arabina Knight.
> Maybe a Sikh woman.
Neal Sharra is very definitely Hindu; he says so himself in the X-Men
Christmas issue in the 100-page monster.
The X-Men seem to have most of the major religions represented except
for Islam. Perhaps an Muslim Arabic or Indonesian mutant will be
popping up soon?
.:Nichol:.
Brian Doyle
"Nichol" <pha...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:83b02775.02060...@posting.google.com...
> The X-Men seem to have most of the major religions represented except
> for Islam. Perhaps an Muslim Arabic or Indonesian mutant will be
> popping up soon?
Actually, I wonder if GM might have a new mutant based religion show up, akin to the
Church of Christ the Joker, in the "Wildcard" books. We all see God in our own image
after all....
Justin Samuels
"Menshevik" <mens...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020608031558...@mb-mh.aol.com...
> ><<With the very Catholic-sounding family name Saint-Croix
> >(Holy Cross) I find that rather unlikely. Had she converted
> >to Islam, she would presumably have changed that.>>
> >
> >Algeria was a French Colony so it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people
> >there
> >have French surnames inclduign ones which might be somewhat odd
translations.
>
> Well, I suppose the more obvious explanation would be:
> Scott Lobdell goofed. :-)
Algerians generally do not have French Surnames, they have Arabic sur names.
And there no Catholics in North Africa. You have coptic church in Egypt,
and that's it.
M would be Muslim most likely. Lobdell goofed.
Justin Samuels
"Brian Doyle" <b.d...@rl.ac.uk> wrote in message
news:adpru4$h...@newton.cc.rl.ac.uk...> news:HhTL8.1161$Dw1.6...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> > We have never seen the power the Living Tribunal Represents, but during
> the
> > Infinity Crusade the other cosmic beings claimed that it(the force the
> > Tribunal Represents) is surpreme.
>
> From their point of view, yes, doesn;t mean they can see the whole
picture.
> >
But as far as we know, the force he represents is Surpreme. Or otherwise
you could up and down an infinite chain of command(actually, the same be
said about religions in real life).
> > The writers probably got the idea to give the Tribunal three faces from
> the
> > Holy Trinity.
>
> Except the Tribunal has no separateness to it, the best being that the
faces
> have assigned duties, IIRC.
>
> Three is a principle number in many pantheons; the Norns, the Hecate, the
> Fates, the Furies, heck maybe even the Graces! :) Past, present, future.
> Heavens, seas and afterlife etc..
Yes.
>
>
Justin Samuels
"EBailey140" <ebail...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020607084724...@mb-fm.aol.com...
She no longer says Goddes, and not in the past few years.
The various animist religions in Africa are syncretic. As I said, almost all
people either Muslim or Christian. However, some Muslims, and some
Christians practice the various animist faiths such as the Shango
worshippers.
For example, one could pray to Oya, the goddess of wind, rain, lightening,
the graveyard, the marketplace, fire and volcanoes(and she is powerful
sorceress0, and still be a Muslim or a Christian, in the context of Africa.
So Storm may very well be Muslim or Christian.
>
> It doesn't really matter whether or not nature goddess religions are
common in
> Africa in the real world, as I'm pretty sure there aren't that many
weather
> controlling mutants there, either.
It is quite relevant what religions you have Africa, as if the writers made
an error in Storm's background, it needs to be fixed.
> >>
> >> Certainly he was never (in any title I read) heard to utter an oath
> >involving a
> >> deity, which most others would or did. "By the White Wolf" is a
cultural
> >reference I
> >> never did work out, but I'm guessing it's not religious.
> >>
> >> >In AOA Colossus was refered to as Russian Orthodox Christian.
> >>
> >> AoA can hardly be viewed as being the mainstream.
> >
> >No, but it meant the writers keeping up with the times. After the
collapse
> >of the Soviet Union, people in the former Soviet Union found their old
> >religions ,Christianity, Islam,and Judaism.
>
> Since AOA spun off from the mainstream Marvel Universe, there's no reason
not
> to accept Piotr was brought up Orthodox.
The point of divergence occurred after Piotr was born.
> >>
> >> > Sunspot is Catholic.
> >>
> >> Forgot about him!
> >
> >Why?
>
> Kurt's also Catholic, of course. Jean would seem to be, too, but she's
also
> studied Kabala. Remy being raised Catholic makes sense, given his
background.
> Kitty's Jewish. Magnus was Jewish, but didn't practice.
We don't know for sure if was ever Jewish . Also, one could be Christian in
Europe but be called Jewish because to some, Jewish is a race not a
religion. Plenty of Christians with Jewish ancestors have persecuted at
different points in European history.
Justin Samuels
>
> > In Storm's so called religion, she worshipped a female creator which is
> > simply called goddess. Yes, i am suggesting there is no such religion.
> > Animistic religions in Africa do not have a female creator of the
> universe,
> > and I would challenge anyone to present an ethnic group that has one.
>
was
> the female Khaos, who represented the fabric of the universe itself
I had asked for the context of Africa. The Greeks are European.
>
> > Also, worshippers of these religions give very specific names to their
> gods
> > ,and Storm's religion and goddess have no name.
>
> In some religions (Hebrew, early Christianity and others) the "true" name
of
> God is viewed as being holy and not to be used, aliases were adopted
instead
> such as "I am" in Christianity.
Again, I was speaking of Africa.
>
> > Thank god they dropped that goddess crap from her vocabulary.
>
> In other words dropped a character trait she's had for thirty years for no
> reason? Why would she suddenly lose her faith? If you're going to do
> something like that, try giving a reason!
>
> > And as I said, the biggest religion in Africa is Islam, Number 2 is
> > Christianity.
>
> And Ororo spent some time being wroshipped as a goddess, neither Islam nor
> Christianity would have followers who would worship her, nor use such a
term
> on a mortal, so whatever faith her worshippers had it's not either of
those
> two.
Actually, large numbers of African Muslims and Christians still make
offerring to Shango, Oya, among many other Gods.
The continent is entirely divided up between Muslims and Christians, with
Muslims compromising the majority.
>
>
Justin Samuels
>
> "CleV" <CL...@balJUNKcab.ch> wrote in message
news:3d00fa3...@news.balcab.ch...
> > On Fri, 7 Jun 2002 09:58:43 +0100, "Brian Doyle" <b.d...@rl.ac.uk>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >"Justin Samuels" <som...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > >news:UZUL8.1328$Dw1.7...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> >
> > >> In Storm's so called religion, she worshipped a female creator which
is
> > >> simply called goddess. Yes, i am suggesting there is no such
religion.
> > >> Animistic religions in Africa do not have a female creator of the
> > >universe,
> > >> and I would challenge anyone to present an ethnic group that has one.
> >
> > >Well, there's the Greeks. The first living thing in the entire universe
was
> > >the female Khaos, who represented the fabric of the universe itself
> >
> > He did say Africa.
> He said "ethnic group", not "African group", but maybe I interpreted a
little
> liberally.
>
and asked for info if knew of such a group . You have not presented one.
Justin Samuels
"BlakGard" <blak...@cfl.rr.com> wrote in message
news:kZhM8.96915$ec1.2...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> > Agreed. But I don't think it's definitively gone, just not currently
> > mentioned.
>
> Agreed. Rumours of its abandonment are highly exaggerated.
>
It has been abandoned, even by Claremont, the man who started her speaking
like that. Storm also finally uses contractions too.
>
Justin Samuels
Yet she has no name.
> 2. A few African people do, in fact, have female creators and/or supreme
> deities, including the Ovambo and Fon.
>
> That said, Ororo is a ficticious character, whose mother was a spiritual
> leader of a ficticious tribe in Africa. Frankly, I see no need for the
book
> to conform to the real-world.
I do. All of the characters have religions that correspond to their
ethnicity, and so should Storm. if the writers can not do the research,
then don't bother having her make religious references.
>
> > Also, worshippers of these religions give very specific names to their
> gods
> > ,and Storm's religion and goddess have no name.
>
> Just because no name has been given doesn't mean the goddess doesn't have
a
> name. The Christian god has a name (many, in fact), yet most seem to refer
> to it as "God."
>
> > Thank god they dropped that goddess crap from her vocabulary.
>
> You mean: "Thank god they stripped her of her self."
>
It was not herself/
> > Also, these religions generally have names.
>
> Not really... not that it's really relevant.
Yes, it is.
>
> > And as I said, the biggest religion in Africa is Islam, Number 2 is
> > Christianity.
>
> Irrelevant. Storm is neither, nor was her mother, nor was the tribe that
> worshipped her as a goddess. Islam and Christianity may be the largest
> religions in Africa, but they are far from being the only religions,
> especially in the area that Ororo resided in. The people of Kenya and
> Tanzania, the areas in which Ororo spent the most amount of time, are
> between 20-30% animists/polytheists (non-Islam and non-Christian).
Most of the animists are still Christian or Muslim. One can practice both.
It would have been essentially impossible anywhere on the continent for her
to have either Muslim or Christian belief incorporated.
Actually, the governments of Kenya and Tanzania do not count their citizens
on the basis of religion, so any stats would be guess work. But basically,
those two countries are Muslim and Christian.
>
>
Justin Samuels
> >creator of her religion. She's referred to as an Earth goddess, perhaps
> akin
> >to Asase Ya (perhaps not -- several other African goddesses can fit).
> >2. A few African people do, in fact, have female creators and/or supreme
> >deities, including the Ovambo and Fon.
> >
>
> I'm sure that I could find several more examples, if I had a few hours to
> spend searching. Still not used to the awesome power of the internet, are
> you kid?
>
> >Also, worshippers of these religions give very specific names to their
gods
> >,and Storm's religion and goddess have no name.
> >
>
> Maybe she just doesn't use it? The idea of a deity having a secret name,
not
> to be heard by unbelievers, isn't that unusual.
In the context of Africa? And why give her a nameless religion. And as I
said, Africa is essentially either Muslim or Christian.
>
> >Thank god they dropped that goddess crap from her vocabulary.
> >
>
> Yes, drop the most central aspect of her character for no apparent reason,
> how nice of them. :-P
The most central aspect of her character is that she controls the weather.
>
>
>
>
Brian Doyle
> > 1. No mention has been made as to whether or not Ororo's "Goddess" is the
> > creator of her religion. She's referred to as an Earth goddess, perhaps akin
> > to Asase Ya (perhaps not -- several other African goddesses can fit).
>
> Yet she has no name.
No, she has no name _that is ever said aloud_ A common event amongst many religions.
> > 2. A few African people do, in fact, have female creators and/or supreme
> > deities, including the Ovambo and Fon.
> >
> > That said, Ororo is a ficticious character, whose mother was a spiritual
> > leader of a ficticious tribe in Africa. Frankly, I see no need for the book
> > to conform to the real-world.
>
> I do. All of the characters have religions that correspond to their
> ethnicity, and so should Storm. if the writers can not do the research,
> then don't bother having her make religious references.
So, since Blakgard has cited evidence of female creation deities in African culture,
are you so set on arguing against her being a follower of one of them?
> Most of the animists are still Christian or Muslim. One can practice both.
How? Christianity's central tenet is the absolute omnipotence of God. The First
Commandment being a case in point "Thou Shalt have no other Gods before Me". Belief
in other deities is anathema to Christianity.
Brian Doyle
> > Yes, drop the most central aspect of her character for no apparent reason,
> > how nice of them. :-P
>
> The most central aspect of her character is that she controls the weather.
Nonsense, that's just a skill she has. She lasted for about what, six years? with no
powers at all, and was still a viable character. She has always been portrayed as a
person who happens to have powers.
Prestorjon
said, Africa is essentially either Muslim or Christian.>>
Except for the parts which aren't. Kenya and Tanzania, the general area of
Africa in which Storm grew into adulthood, is about a quarter animist/other
indigenous beliefs. And living among tribesmen out in the bush she'd be more
likely to have an indigenous set of beliefs. Also given how she was worshipped
as a Goddess it's not unlikely that she doesn't have a religion as such and
that she has a personal and special relationship with the divine outside of and
kind of organized or even semi-organized tradition.