Marvel sales - April 2003
Paul O'Brien
For those of you who don't follow the charts, Diamond have drastically
overhauled the way in which the charts are calculated. Previously, they
were based on advance orders to the direct market. In other words, they
didn't include re-orders, but only the first set of orders received from
retailers.
When Marvel changed their terms of sale so that orders could be placed
much, much later than that, Diamond decided that a chart calculated on
that basis would no longer be remotely meaningful. So what we now have
is a chart based on the number of comics actually sold to stores. That
includes all copies shipped to the direct market but, as before, it
doesn't cover sales outside North America, nor does it cover newsstand
sales.
So what does this mean in practice?
Well, there are two major differences. Firstly, because re-orders are
now included, it's impossible to make any meaningful comparisons with
figures from the previous chart. Even Marvel, with their print-to-order
policy, turn out to have been doing a degree of re-order business
sufficient to throw the figures completely out of whack. Consequently,
we're back to a fresh start on the track record beginning with March
2003 (for which Diamond re-issued the chart).
Secondly, the chart no longer contains comics which didn't actually
ship. It does, however, include comics which were scheduled for
previous months and shipped late; and it includes ongoing re-orders
received for comics in earlier months. Obviously, this could be
significant for books which ship near the end of the month and which
might see re-orders straddling calendar months.
It's worth emphasising that with the newsstands and bookstores forming
an increasingly important part of the market, the relevance of this
chart is declining. Nonetheless, it still forms an important part of
Marvel's business for the moment. Remember, as well, that these are
actual sales to STORES. There is no guarantee that the stores managed
to sell them all to customers. One can only imagine that they didn't.
Because orders can now be placed much closer to the cut-off point, we
should be seeing much quicker reaction to new series. Previously it
took about four months for retailers to adjust their figures in reaction
to sales of issue #1. As I understand the new system, we should now see
that information starting to feed through in time for issue #2, and
certainly issue #3.
Diamond still only release "index point" data, telling you how much
everything sold relative to Batman. Fortunately, ICV2 continues to
produce its own estimates, presumably based on taking the figures from
minor publishers and multiplying up to extrapolate everyone else's
figures. Remember that these are estimates, and relate to a segment of
the market. It's the trends that are important - and with only two
months' data, it's premature to draw too many conclusions about them. In
fact, it's almost impossible, for reasons I'll come to in a moment.
Nonetheless, this is our new start point, so here we go...
Source data is here:-
http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/2774.html
So, without further ado...
1. BATMAN
Mar Batman #613 - 147,799
Apr Batman #614 - 153,129 (+3.6%)
Now then...
Straight away we see one of the problems with the new chart. BATMAN
#613 had extraordinarily high re-order activity, with over 12,000
further copies being sold in April. In order to make sure that the
trends are accurate, I've included those figures above. But then, what
if issue #614 has re-orders of that order as well? Well, we'll find out
next month, basically.
In fact, it doesn't make all that much difference for most books.
AMAZING SPIDER-MAN had a couple of thousand more copies sold this month
in re-orders, and I've shoved them into the March data as well. For the
most part we can probably assume that this isn't going to be a big deal,
particularly because Marvel still aren't big on offering titles for
re-order after they've first shipped. Nonetheless, you never know when
it might be a factor.
BATMAN continues to dominate the chart, in a testimony to the power of a
flagship character combined with a popular creative team.
2. TRANSFORMERS: GENERATION ONE
Apr Transformers: Generation One v2 #1 - 111,355
DreamWave return for another stab with the 1980s toys. The toy revival
fad seems to be blowing over, for the most part, so it'll be interesting
to see how well this one holds up next month.
Well, that's the non-Marvel contingent in the top 13. And now, a long
list of comics doing nothing unexpected at all.
3. ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN
Mar Ultimate Spider-Man #37 - 112,318
Mar Ultimate Spider-Man #38 - 112,562 (+2.2%)
Apr Ultimate Spider-Man #39 - 103,531 (-8.0%)
Bit of a drop-off there, for no particularly obvious reason.
4. AMAZING SPIDER-MAN
Mar Amazing Spider-Man #51 - 98,526
Apr Amazing Spider-Man #52 - 96,624 (-1.9%)
Nothing desperately unusual here, either. It's only going down because
of the re-orders being added in.
5,6. NEW X-MEN
Mar New X-Men #138 - 95,278
Apr New X-Men #139 - 95,981 (+0.7%)
Apr New X-Men #140 - 94,925 (-1.1%)
More or less level.
7,8. ULTIMATE X-MEN
Mar Ultimate X-Men #30 - 89,544
Apr Ultimate X-Men #31 - 90,086 (+0.6%)
Apr Ultimate X-Men #32 - 90,484 (+0.4%)
Marginal increases, but nothing of significance.
9,10. UNCANNY X-MEN
Mar Uncanny X-Men #420 - 85,473
Apr Uncanny X-Men #421 - 86,503 (+1.2%)
Apr Uncanny X-Men #422 - 85,890 (-0.7%)
And ditto this one. Uncanny X-Men #422 was at a higher price point
because, for some unfathomable reason, it was double-sized.
Incidentally, the May charts will include the 25c issue (or more
accurately, the fallout from the 25c issue), which will be more
interesting to watch out for.
11. WOLVERINE
Mar Wolverine #187 - 62,144
Mar Wolverine #188 - 62,049 (-0.2%)
Apr Wolverine #189 - 61,282 (-1.2%)
Coasting its way gently to relaunch in May. Stick with me, it picks up
when we get further down the chart.
12. DAREDEVIL
Mar n/a
Apr Daredevil #45 - 60,272
Apr Daredevil #46 - 60,517 (+0.4%)
Nothing to see here...
15. X-TREME X-MEN
Mar X-Treme X-Men #22 - 60,453
Mar X-Treme X-Men #23 - 59,506 (-1.6%)
Apr X-Treme X-Men #24 - 59,092 (-0.7%)
No discernible bump for the beginning of God Loves Man Kills 2. Perhaps
more interesting is that none of the X-books are seeing noticeable
increases to tie in with the movie. If there isn't a significant bump
for the X-titles on the May charts, you have to figure Marvel are going
to be very disappointed. Their failure to capitalise on the first movie
was one of the things that was singled out (not least by Marvel) as a
failure of the previous administration.
16. AVENGERS
Mar Avengers #65 - 59,155
Apr Avengers #66 - 58,312 (-1.4%)
Bland numbers.
17,18. INCREDIBLE HULK
Mar Incredible Hulk #51 - 56,220
Apr Incredible Hulk #52 - 57,684 (+2.6%)
Apr Incredible Hulk #53 - 57,837 (+0.3%)
Back on the slow climb with the Abomination storyline, which is slightly
against prevailing trends.
21,23. MARVEL UNIVERSE: THE END
Mar Marvel Universe: The End #1 - 60,372
Mar Marvel Universe: The End #2 - 56,707 (-6.1%)
Apr Marvel Universe: The End #3 - 51,559 (-9.1%)
Apr Marvel Universe: The End #4 - 52,569 (+2.0%)
A slight increase for issue #4, although generally the book's still on a
standard downward miniseries decline. It has to be said that the high
numbers for this very traditional book have caught a lot of people by
surprise.
22. CAPTAIN AMERICA
Mar Captain America #10 - 51,270
Apr Captain America #11 - 50,770 (-1.0%)
Apr Captain America #12 - 51,804 (+2.0%)
Oh sweet jesus, it's going up. Why? Does anybody like this comic?
24. FANTASTIC FOUR
Mar Fantastic Four #67 - 53,218
Apr Fantastic Four #68 - 51,405 (-3.4%)
Again, all pretty normal.
25. MYSTIQUE
Apr Mystique #1 - 47,562
Ah, now here we hit something interesting.
This is the highest new entry from the Tsunami wave of launches. (For
the nth time, people, Tsunami is not an imprint. It's an advertising
strategy.) As we'll see shortly, some of the other new titles have done
really quite badly. Number 25 is actually quite good for an ongoing
MYSTIQUE series - better than I was expecting it to do.
The Tsunami books present a bit of a challenge. As Marvel's promotional
interviews have made clear, one of the main things they're trying to do
with these books is produce titles which can give Marvel an increased
presence among the manga audience. That audience isn't in the direct
market, it's in the bookstores. Consequently, the direct market charts
can't tell us a great deal about how the titles are going to do when it
comes to that objective. Personally, I have great scepticism that
they'll achieve it, unless Marvel announce a radically different
packaging approach for the trade paperbacks, designed to keep costs down
and the books very accessible.
Nonetheless, it's important to remember that the business strategy for
these books sees them selling in the bookstores to a much greater extent
than other Marvel titles. Consequently, Marvel may expect, and should
certainly tolerate, much lower sales on these books than they would on
other titles. If Marvel stick to the plan, these books ought to be
given at least eight issues no matter how badly they do in the direct
market; by that point, Marvel should have a clear idea of how the first
TPB is doing in the bookstores. If the books continue to stick around
after that with diabolical direct market orders, it can probably be
inferred that the trades are doing okay.
This is less of an issue for MYSTIQUE, which has debuted with reasonable
numbers. But others look set to illustrate the point rather more
dramatically.
55. PETER PARKER, SPIDER-MAN
Mar Peter Parker, Spider-Man #54 - 48,998
Apr Peter Parker, Spider-Man #55 - 47,531 (-3.0%)
Back to the bland slight declines.
30,37,30,40,41. WOLVERINE: X-ISLE
Apr Wolverine: X-Isle #1 - 43,611
Apr Wolverine: X-Isle #2 - 40,273 (-7.7%)
Apr Wolverine: X-Isle #3 - 39,967 (-0.8%)
Apr Wolverine: X-Isle #4 - 39,278 (-1.7%)
Apr Wolverine: X-Isle #5 - 39,002 (-0.7%)
Fairly normal miniseries figures here. Most of the drop-off is with
issue #2, which is typical enough. That said, the figures still provide
some support for the theory that soliciting an entire miniseries in one
month maximises the orders for later issues. The catch is that Marvel
have now done this with two minis, neither of which was exactly well
received. That may start to create a problem of its own.
35,36. PUNISHER
Mar Punisher #23 - 42,006
Apr Punisher #24 - 40,503 (-3.6%)
Apr Punisher #25 - 40,319 (-0.5%)
Still holding up okay.
38. HULK/WOLVERINE: 6 HOURS
Mar n/a
Apr Hulk/Wolverine: 6 Hours #4 - 40,120
Well, yes. Whatever.
43. HUMAN TORCH
Apr Human Torch #1 - 37,103
Another Tsunami book. Not exactly huge figures, and lower than the
parent book. Slightly surprising to see this chart below MYSTIQUE, to
be honest. Might reflect scepticism about the popularity of the art
style.
44. EXILES
Mar Exiles #23 - 36,380
Mar Exiles #24 - 35,920 (-1.3%)
Apr Exiles #25 - 36,414 (+1.4%)
Another book hovering more or less on a level.
47,54,48. X-MEN UNLIMITED
Mar n/a
Apr X-Men Unlimited #43 - 35,756
Apr X-Men Unlimited #44 - 34,485 (-3.6%)
Apr X-Men Unlimited #45 - 34,975 (+1.4%)
You wait two months for a superfluous collection of fill-in stories, and
then three come along at once. Issue #44, which notably failed to
capture the imagination of retailers, was Chuck Austen's story about
animal rights.
49. X-MEN 2 MOVIE ADAPTATION
Apr X-Men 2 Movie Adaptation - 34,852
Not primarily a direct market product, I'd say.
50. SENTINEL
Apr Sentinel #1 - 34,822
Hmm. Not a great starting point by Marvel's usual standards, but on the
other hand, pretty good for a series with no previously established
characters and (to many fans) a little-known writer. It's quite a good
book.
53. THOR
Mar Thor #61 - 36,299
Apr Thor #62 - 34,638 (-4.6%)
Apr Thor #63 - 34,408 (-0.7%)
The price went up this month, which might go some way towards explaining
that drop with issue #62.
58. IRON MAN
Mar Iron Man #66 - 33,445
Apr Iron Man #67 - 32,479 (-2.9%)
Another price rise, although the drop is in line with many other titles.
61. X-STATIX
Mar X-Statix #9 - 32,133
Apr X-Statix #10 - 31,009 (-3.5%)
And the same applies here.
69. WEAPON X
Mar Weapon X #7 - 30,335
Apr Weapon X #8 - 29,385 (-3.1%)
And here.
70,72. X-MEN: RONIN
Mar X-Men: Ronin #1 - 34,595
Mar X-Men: Ronin #2 - 32,566 ( -5.9%)
Apr X-Men: Ronin #3 - 29,095 (-10.7%)
Apr X-Men: Ronin #4 - 28,528 ( -2.0%)
Not great figures, but then (a) it's crap, and (b) it's a Mangaverse
book - and, supposedly, they do quite well in the trade paperback
market.
71. CAPTAIN MARVEL
Mar Captain Marvel #6 - 30,132
Apr Captain Marvel #7 - 29,483 (-2.2%)
Apr Captain Marvel #8 - 29,033 (-1.5%)
Another price rise, another slight decline.
75. PARADISE X
Mar Paradise X #9 - 26,658
Apr Paradise X #10 - 27,854 (+4.5%)
Orders on PARADISE X are consistently inexplicable.
78. AGENT X
Mar Agent X #9 - 27,603
Apr Agent X #10 - 26,767 (-3.0%)
Same old routine here.
79. ALIAS
Mar Alias #20 - 27,630
Apr Alias #21 - 26,767 (-3.1%)
And here. Oh, hold on - ALIAS was already at $2.99. It's just on the
same fall as everything else. To be honest, my sense is that the price
rises haven't had much effect at all on sales; the books that are
dropping are moving at the same rates as books whose price hasn't
changed.
81,82. ELEKTRA
Mar n/a
Apr Elektra #21 - 26,553
Apr Elektra #22 - 26,522 (-0.1%)
This is the tail end of Greg Rucka's run; I'm not expecting significant
movement when Robert Rodi and Sean Chen come on with issue #23, but you
never know.
84. RUNAWAYS
Apr Runaways #1 - 25,833
Okay, now this is a bad debut by Marvel's standards. Of course, it's a
Tsunami book, so there's always the possibility of improvement in the
trade paperback market. And it's a series with no established
characters, so to an extent, what did they expect?
Shame, because the book's pretty good.
90. ULTIMATE ADVENTURES
Mar n/a
Apr Ultimate Adventures #3 - 24,348
You continually hear people asking what ever happened about those Kevin
Smith Spider-Man issues. Because people actually want to read them.
With ULTIMATE ADVENTURES, it seems most people just assume it finished a
while ago.
92,94. RAWHIDE KID
Mar Rawhide Kid #2 - 27,725
Mar Rawhide Kid #3 - 27,048 ( -2.4%)
Apr Rawhide Kid #4 - 24,286 (-10.2%)
Apr Rawhide Kid #5 - 23,888 ( -1.6%)
All the hype did this one no good in the long run. A nasty 10% drop
this month.
98. SPIDER-GIRL
Mar Spider-Girl #58 - 23,776
Apr Spider-Girl #59 - 23,199 (-2.4%)
The comic that will not die. It does, however, still the hold the
record for lowest-selling Marvel title which hasn't already been axed.
105. THUNDERBOLTS
Mar Thunderbolts #77 - 24,857
Apr Thunderbolts #78 - 21,806 (-12.3%)
And a comic that will. It's actually not bad, but an abysmal launch
strategy killed this one dead, straight off the blocks. The hideous
12.3% drop shows why this one's being axed.
107. 411
Apr 411 #1 - 20,795
Owww. As near as I can make out, the only people outside Marvel who've
read this thing are me and the reviewer from Entertainment Weekly. And
it's alright. But readers and retailers alike are baffled as to what
the point's supposed to be, and the result is a nasty chart placing.
119. SOLDIER X
Mar Soldier X #9 - 19,529
Apr Soldier X #10 - 18,697 (-4.3%)
Fill-in issues plus announced cancellation equals no sales.
122. CALL
Apr Call #1 - 17,885
Well, I mean, come on. This can't have come as a surprise to anyone,
given the diabolical sales (and worse reviews) that the CALL OF DUTY
minis were picking up towards the end. It's been suggested that this
series only exists because they sold the video game rights and had to
actually publish the book. Certainly plausible. On any view, this
bizarre attempt at a fantasy adventure series involving the emergency
services seems to have missed the public mood by a mile.
126. SPIDEY & MINI MARVELS
Apr Spidey & Mini Marvels - 17,089
Well, that's nice. 17,000 copies of a cartoon strip book. That's quite
good, by those standards.
130,131. BLACK PANTHER
Mar Black Panther #55 - 17,149
Mar Black Panther #56 - 17,013 (-0.8%)
Apr Black Panther #57 - 16,431 (-3.4%)
Apr Black Panther #58 - 16,354 (-0.5%)
The relaunch has totally failed to increase sales. The question now is
whether retailers will give THE CREW a chance as a fresh start, or
whether they'll twig that it's essentially a continuation of BLACK
PANTHER. I'm not holding my breath for the sales figures.
152,156,157. MARVELOUS ADVENTURES OF GUS BEEZER
Apr Spider-Man - 13,138
Apr X-Men - 12,541
Apr Hulk - 12,449
Pretty much what you'd expect for a product that appeared to be aimed at
younger audiences, who of course won't set foot into a comic store.
Supposedly these are going to be kept available for re-order, but the
real question is what other routes are going to be used to publish the
story, since the direct market was never going to let it find its
audience.
158. X-MEN: GOD LOVES MAN KILLS
Apr X-Men: God Loves Man Kills reprint - 12,403
When you consider that this book has been around since 1982, and has
already been reprinted at least seven times, 12,403 copies is pretty
good.
Okay... so, comments?
--
Paul O'Brien
THE X-AXIS - http://www.thexaxis.com
ARTICLE 10 - http://www.ninthart.com
T minus 9.
Andy Sheets
news:3UNX9FIa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...
> No discernible bump for the beginning of God Loves Man Kills 2. Perhaps
> more interesting is that none of the X-books are seeing noticeable
> increases to tie in with the movie. If there isn't a significant bump
> for the X-titles on the May charts, you have to figure Marvel are going
> to be very disappointed. Their failure to capitalise on the first movie
> was one of the things that was singled out (not least by Marvel) as a
> failure of the previous administration.
I wonder how the tpb sales are doing. It seems like most of the people I
talked to who were interested in trying X-Men after the movie were also
mostly *not* interested in the regular series, which looked confusing to
most of them.
Andy
Sean Walsh
news:3UNX9FIa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...
>
> Apr Transformers: Generation One v2 #1 - 111,355
>
> DreamWave return for another stab with the 1980s toys. The toy revival
> fad seems to be blowing over, for the most part, so it'll be interesting
> to see how well this one holds up next month.
But aren't these numbers phenomenally better than what TF's been selling
over the past few months?
> No discernible bump for the beginning of God Loves Man Kills 2. Perhaps
> more interesting is that none of the X-books are seeing noticeable
> increases to tie in with the movie. If there isn't a significant bump
> for the X-titles on the May charts, you have to figure Marvel are going
> to be very disappointed. Their failure to capitalise on the first movie
> was one of the things that was singled out (not least by Marvel) as a
> failure of the previous administration.
And it got a certain editor-in-chief canned, didn't it? Hmmmmmm.....
> 21,23. MARVEL UNIVERSE: THE END
> Mar Marvel Universe: The End #1 - 60,372
> Mar Marvel Universe: The End #2 - 56,707 (-6.1%)
> Apr Marvel Universe: The End #3 - 51,559 (-9.1%)
> Apr Marvel Universe: The End #4 - 52,569 (+2.0%)
>
> A slight increase for issue #4, although generally the book's still on a
> standard downward miniseries decline. It has to be said that the high
> numbers for this very traditional book have caught a lot of people by
> surprise.
And its high numbers essentially got Starlin a THANOS ongoing. Let's hope
(and pray) it's as good as it should be.
> 25. MYSTIQUE
> Apr Mystique #1 - 47,562
>
> Ah, now here we hit something interesting.
>
> This is the highest new entry from the Tsunami wave of launches. (For
> the nth time, people, Tsunami is not an imprint. It's an advertising
> strategy.) As we'll see shortly, some of the other new titles have done
> really quite badly. Number 25 is actually quite good for an ongoing
> MYSTIQUE series - better than I was expecting it to do.
Could this possibly be Marvel's one (and only?) bump from the X-movie?
> 43. HUMAN TORCH
> Apr Human Torch #1 - 37,103
>
> Another Tsunami book. Not exactly huge figures, and lower than the
> parent book. Slightly surprising to see this chart below MYSTIQUE, to
> be honest. Might reflect scepticism about the popularity of the art
> style.
Skottie Young's art is popular?
> 84. RUNAWAYS
> Apr Runaways #1 - 25,833
>
> Okay, now this is a bad debut by Marvel's standards. Of course, it's a
> Tsunami book, so there's always the possibility of improvement in the
> trade paperback market. And it's a series with no established
> characters, so to an extent, what did they expect?
>
> Shame, because the book's pretty good.
Written by a guy with a pretty dang good track record.
> 105. THUNDERBOLTS
> Mar Thunderbolts #77 - 24,857
> Apr Thunderbolts #78 - 21,806 (-12.3%)
>
> And a comic that will. It's actually not bad, but an abysmal launch
> strategy killed this one dead, straight off the blocks. The hideous
> 12.3% drop shows why this one's being axed.
They dumped Hawkeye and Co. for this............. :(
> 122. CALL
> Apr Call #1 - 17,885
>
> Well, I mean, come on. This can't have come as a surprise to anyone,
> given the diabolical sales (and worse reviews) that the CALL OF DUTY
> minis were picking up towards the end. It's been suggested that this
> series only exists because they sold the video game rights and had to
> actually publish the book. Certainly plausible. On any view, this
> bizarre attempt at a fantasy adventure series involving the emergency
> services seems to have missed the public mood by a mile.
They pulled Pat Oliffe off Spider-Girl for this............ :(
--
Sean
My webpage: http://www.Sean-Walsh.com
Quantum Piett! http://www.geocities.com/quantumpiett/
¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø,¸¸,ø¤°`°¤ø
Ralf Haring
<pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>43. HUMAN TORCH
>Apr Human Torch #1 - 37,103
>
>Another Tsunami book. Not exactly huge figures, and lower than the
>parent book. Slightly surprising to see this chart below MYSTIQUE, to
>be honest. Might reflect scepticism about the popularity of the art
>style.
I'm not surprised at all. The X-Men are more popular than the
Fantastic Four, even marginal ones that haven't been seen in a while.
They also have a current movie to help generate interest.
>47,54,48. X-MEN UNLIMITED
>Mar n/a
>Apr X-Men Unlimited #43 - 35,756
>Apr X-Men Unlimited #44 - 34,485 (-3.6%)
>Apr X-Men Unlimited #45 - 34,975 (+1.4%)
>
>You wait two months for a superfluous collection of fill-in stories, and
>then three come along at once. Issue #44, which notably failed to
>capture the imagination of retailers, was Chuck Austen's story about
>animal rights.
No comment on the above, but I might take a look at #50 by Kazuo Koike
(Lone Wolf & Cub) and Paul Smith. It seems his favorite Marvel
characters are the X-Men, Spider-Man, and Thor. So of course Marvel
has him write a Wolverine samurai story, because we've a) never seen
him write a samurai before and b) haven't nearly seen Wolverine
samurai stories enough. Personally I would have been much more
interested in a Thor story by him, just because it seems like a more
offbeat choice.
>75. PARADISE X
>Mar Paradise X #9 - 26,658
>Apr Paradise X #10 - 27,854 (+4.5%)
>
>Orders on PARADISE X are consistently inexplicable.
A far cry from Earth X's sales though. That used to be consistently in
the Top 10.
-Ralf Haring
"The mind must be the harder, the heart the keener,
the spirit the greater, as our strength grows less."
-Byrhtwold, The Battle of Maldon
R. Tang
Sean Walsh <arcad...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>"Paul O'Brien" <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:3UNX9FIa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...
>>
>> 2. TRANSFORMERS: GENERATION ONE
>> Apr Transformers: Generation One v2 #1 - 111,355
>>
>> DreamWave return for another stab with the 1980s toys. The toy revival
>> fad seems to be blowing over, for the most part, so it'll be interesting
>> to see how well this one holds up next month.
>
>But aren't these numbers phenomenally better than what TF's been selling
>over the past few months?
>
>> No discernible bump for the beginning of God Loves Man Kills 2. Perhaps
>> more interesting is that none of the X-books are seeing noticeable
>> increases to tie in with the movie. If there isn't a significant bump
>> for the X-titles on the May charts, you have to figure Marvel are going
>> to be very disappointed. Their failure to capitalise on the first movie
>> was one of the things that was singled out (not least by Marvel) as a
>> failure of the previous administration.
>
>And it got a certain editor-in-chief canned, didn't it? Hmmmmmm.....
Perhaps it points to the REAL problem: distribution. And the
editor in chief has little to do with that.
On the other hand, I'd like to see what the sales have been for
the mass market paperbacks....That's where the real increase for the
movies would be, not the comic book shops...
>> 84. RUNAWAYS
>> Apr Runaways #1 - 25,833
>>
>> Okay, now this is a bad debut by Marvel's standards. Of course, it's a
>> Tsunami book, so there's always the possibility of improvement in the
>> trade paperback market. And it's a series with no established
>> characters, so to an extent, what did they expect?
>>
>> Shame, because the book's pretty good.
>
>Written by a guy with a pretty dang good track record.
Good book, good creator....OBVIOUSLY, the fan boys aren't
interested in either....
--
-
-Roger Tang, gwan...@u.washington.edu, Artistic Director PC Theatre
- Editor, Asian American Theatre Revue [NEW URL][Yes, it IS new]
- http://www.aatrevue.com
Joe Ankenbauer
news:3UNX9FIa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...
>
> Mar Ultimate Spider-Man #37 - 112,318
> Mar Ultimate Spider-Man #38 - 112,562 (+2.2%)
> Apr Ultimate Spider-Man #39 - 103,531 (-8.0%)
>
> Bit of a drop-off there, for no particularly obvious reason.
Would this have anything to do with the end of the Ultimate Venom storyline?
Also, thanks for doing this, Paul. It's always an interesting read.
JMA
W. Blaine Dowler
> 44. EXILES
> Mar Exiles #23 - 36,380
> Mar Exiles #24 - 35,920 (-1.3%)
> Apr Exiles #25 - 36,414 (+1.4%)
>
> Another book hovering more or less on a level.
I tried this out this weekend by picking up the first two trade paperbacks.
If it's maintained the level it was at in "Exiles: A World Apart" then I'd
say it deserves a higher placement on the list. (It's more impressive
than Uncanny 421-423, IMO, which are the only three I've read under
Austen's pen.) If anyone out there only tried the issues in the first
trade (#1-4), give it another chance. That was setting up the rules
they'd be playing by; after that, it picks up. I'll be catching up on
this title shortly.
--
- Blaine
http://www.bureau42.com
XFW # 299792458, WM, SW, WNS, NRMTPB, FPSSG
SVS# 0.00729735308002..., CoC #36, SSUCS
Peter
Rampus <dfgkj...@kdlklsd.com> wrote:
Geezus I think Windbag's just morphed into someone even more obnoxious
and idiotic.
Alex Hopkinson
"Rampus" <dfgkj...@kdlklsd.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BAF2446D...@news-central.giganews.com...
> On Wed, 21 May 2003 16:37:46 -0400, Paul O'Brien wrote
> > 11. WOLVERINE
> > Mar Wolverine #187 - 62,144
> > Mar Wolverine #188 - 62,049 (-0.2%)
> > Apr Wolverine #189 - 61,282 (-1.2%)
> >
> > Coasting its way gently to relaunch in May. Stick with me, it picks up
> > when we get further down the chart.
>
> from me, the story sucked ROYALLY and the art is OK if cropping Wolverine
by
> a foot and a half is ok with you, may be you find little people sexy??????
So an artist finally draws Wolverine at his CORRECT height, looking as ugly
& mean as he is supposed to and you have a problem with that?
Alex.
Jeremy Henderson
wrote:
>> 16. AVENGERS
>> Mar Avengers #65 - 59,155
>> Apr Avengers #66 - 58,312 (-1.4%)
>
>> Bland numbers.
>
>You are delusional, this is a down spiral
No, not really. Once reorders for April come in on next month's chart,
the two months will probably be almost identical.
_______________________________
Life's a lot like a freak show.
Nobody laughs when they leave.
R. Tang
>
>>
>> Mar Batman #613 - 147,799
>> Apr Batman #614 - 153,129 (+3.6%)
>
No, it doesn't. Pay attention to sales figures. These are LESS
than Shonen Jump.
Alex Hopkinson
> Really? when i look at Hulk 180-181 Wolv first apperance it doesn't look
like
> a dwarf, or the next apperances in the x-men as matter of fact.
> Where did you get your facts from? The Quemas distortion infoline?
>
> On Thu, 22 May 2003 11:13:10 -0400, Alex Hopkinson wrote
>
> > So an artist finally draws Wolverine at his CORRECT height, looking as
ugly
> > & mean as he is supposed to and you have a problem with that?
> >
> > Alex.
The official height is 5 foot 3 inches. It's been around that for most of
the character's duration, as far as I know. Obviously that hasn't stopped
several artists drawing him much taller. He's nearly always been referred to
as having "an ugly mug" and a large number of artists have drawn him as
such, just like a large number haven't.
Alex.
Alex Hopkinson
> On Thu, 22 May 2003 9:33:18 -0400, Peter wrote
> (in message <220520032333188614%uce_fro...@chatomatic.net>):
> have boostore TPBs " bla bla bla bla...
> face it kiddo marvel is a sad shadow of what it used to be when it comes
to
> comics
>
The entire industry is (and has been for years now), it's hardly something
limited to Marvel.
Alex.
W. Blaine Dowler
> Really? when i look at Hulk 180-181 Wolv first apperance it doesn't look
> like a dwarf, or the next apperances in the x-men as matter of fact.
> Where did you get your facts from? The Quemas distortion infoline?
They called him "Shorty" and "Dwarf" all the time in the early X-Men. He's
often seen looking up at his teammates.
As for his Hulk appearance, I haven't seen it (Essential Hulk Vol. 5,
anyone?), but it could be hard to gauge if you're comparing him to the
Hulk or Windigo.
Marc-Oliver Frisch
: On the other hand, I'd like to see what the sales have been for
: the mass market paperbacks....That's where the real increase for the
: movies would be, not the comic book shops...
Again, from a recent icv2.com article:
>>Publishing sales were up only 4% for the quarter, with a decline in periodical revenue
("reflecting the impact of the termination of several lesser-known comic book series that
were not sufficiently profitable") more than offset by an increase in book publishing.
Graphic novel sales were $4.1 million in Q1 2003, vs. $1.7 million in Q1 2002. This
follows an increase to $15.5 million in graphic novel sales in 2002 from $5.3 million in
2001.<<
http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/2709.html
Marvel's book initiative does seem to be quite the success.
--
Marc-Oliver Frisch
Dersc...@hotmail.com
Freedom is untidy.
--
[Please note: This is a Usenet message, originally posted to the rec.arts.comics.* groups.
If you see it in a moderated or censored forum, it was copied there without my consent.]
Paul O'Brien
<gwan...@u.washington.edu> writes
>
> Perhaps it points to the REAL problem: distribution. And the
>editor in chief has little to do with that.
Marvel did get a spike from Spider-Man sales, so I doubt that's entirely
it.
I suspect the problem is more that sales of X-books are already as high
as they're going to get in the direct market. Anyone interested in
reading them is already reading them. New readers from the film won't
be drawn into the direct market but to the newsstands and the trade
paperbacks. Spider-Man, on the other hand, was coming from a position
where there was an audience out there in the direct market who were
vaguely interested in the character but weren't presently the book and
were reminded to give it another go.
R. Tang
Marc-Oliver Frisch <Dersc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>R. Tang wrote:
>
>: On the other hand, I'd like to see what the sales have been for
>: the mass market paperbacks....That's where the real increase for the
>: movies would be, not the comic book shops...
>
>Again, from a recent icv2.com article:
>
>>>Publishing sales were up only 4% for the quarter, with a decline in periodical revenue
>("reflecting the impact of the termination of several lesser-known comic book series that
>were not sufficiently profitable") more than offset by an increase in book publishing.
>Graphic novel sales were $4.1 million in Q1 2003, vs. $1.7 million in Q1 2002. This
>follows an increase to $15.5 million in graphic novel sales in 2002 from $5.3 million in
>2001.<<
>
>http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/2709.html
>
>Marvel's book initiative does seem to be quite the success.
Ahhh....so they ARE capitalizing on the movies' success? But just
not in the area some people expect.....
Paul O'Brien
Henderson <hel...@tampabay.rr.com> writes
>
>No, not really. Once reorders for April come in on next month's chart,
>the two months will probably be almost identical.
Probably not, to be honest. Amazing Spider-Man was the only Marvel
title to have any significant reorders spilling over to increase the
March figures, which is probably because they print to order.
--
Paul O'Brien
THE X-AXIS - http://www.thexaxis.com
ARTICLE 10 - http://www.ninthart.com
T minus 8.
Carlos Hernandez
>On Wed, 21 May 2003 16:37:46 -0400, Paul O'Brien wrote
>
>> 1. BATMAN
>> Mar Batman #613 - 147,799
>> Apr Batman #614 - 153,129 (+3.6%)
>This proves quality sell more then Manga , are you there Marvel? hello???
<snip>
>Except Marvel vanishing sales, going down and down and down,
>how long will it take to get rid of Quemas? mmmm
<snip>
> down and down and down.....
<snip>
>yes more like less and less and less, guess kia asa-garbage-mia
>didn't hel did he.
<snip>
>down down and down when will it stop......
<snip>
>No thanks the first isse was pure crap, Marvel ain't getting anymore cash
>from me, the story sucked ROYALLY and the art is OK if cropping Wolverine by
>a foot and a half is ok with you, may be you find little people sexy??????
<snip>
>down n d.. yawn
<snip>
>You are delusional, this is a down spiral
<snip>
>Is that what you call a 3% decline? slight? tell me did you have light
>breakfast or are your lips stuck to marvel butt?
<snip rest of repetitive comments>
>mmm no I'll pass, by the way how long before Quesda gets fired?
And this compares with DC how, exactly? Let's take a look at March's
numbers, shall we? (Thanks to Johanna, who's post I lifted this from):
Mar Batman 613 - 122,835 ( -1.8% )
6 month 181.7%
Mar JLA 79 - 60,189 ( 0.0% )
6 month -0.7%
Mar Green Arrow 22 - 50,1299 ( -3.1% )
6 month -11.5%
Mar JSA 46 - 41,162 ( 2.5% )
6 month -3.8%
Mar Detective 780 - 37,231 ( -1.0% )
6 month -10.6%
Mar Green Lantern 161 - 35,598 ( 0.0% )
6 month -7.6%
Mar Aquaman 4 - 34,983 ( -3.4% )
Mar Superman 191 - 33,006 ( 3.3% )
6 month -11.3%
Mar Action 801 - 30,881 ( -23.4% )
6 month -8.2%
Mar Batman: Gotham Knights 39 - 29,898 ( -3.0% )
6 month -14.9%
Mar Hawkman 13 - 29,800 ( -0.9% )
6 month -16.2%
Mar Batgirl 38 - 29,566 ( -0.9% )
6 month -14.0%
Mar Batgirl: Year One 4 - 29,370 ( 2.6% )
Mar Adventures of Superman 614 - 29,345 ( 0.1% )
6 month -13.4%
Mar Nightwing 79 - 28,485 ( -1.1% )
6 month -11.2%
Mar Flash 196 - 27,417 ( 0.6% )
6 month -6.8%
Mar Robotech 4 - 26,655 ( -6.7% )
The rate of decline on this 6-issue miniseries has slowed but is still
dropping.
Mar Superman & Batman: Generations III 3 - 26,643 ( -6.1% )
Mar Supergirl 80 - 25,267 ( 5.6% )
6 month 33.6%
Mar Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight 165 - 25,107 ( -2.0% )
6 month -9.8%
Mar Wonder Woman 190 - 24,702 ( -6.1% )
6 month 1.9%
Mar Birds of Prey 53 - 23,793 ( -2.5% )
6 month -15.2%
Mar Fables 11 - 23,277 ( 2.5% )
6 month 20.3%
Mar Catwoman 17 - 22,872 ( -2.2% )
6 month -16.5%
Mar Y The Last Man 9 - 22,835 ( 4.8% )
6 month 71.6%
Mar Young Justice 55 - 22,602 ( 1.2% )
6 month -3.8%
Mar Legion 18 - 22,516 ( -2.1% )
6 month -11.2%
Mar Robin 112 - 22,319 ( -0.9% )
6 month -14.1%
Mar Superman Metropolis 2 - 20,452 ( -10.6% )
Mar JSA Unholy Three 2 - 19,715 ( -6.3% )
Mar Birds of Prey: Catwoman/Oracle 2 - 19,580 ( -13.3% )
Mar Global Frequency 6 - 18,388 ( -2.8% )
Mar Gotham Central 5 - 18,216 ( -5.3% )
Mar Gen 13 7 - 17,418 ( -4.6% )
6 month -43.3%
Mar HERO 2 - 16,939 ( -17.8% )
Mar Wildcats Version 3.0 8 - 16,841 ( 5.0% )
6 month -23.9%
Mar 100 Bullets 43 - 16,779 ( 1.0% )
6 month -1.1%
Mar Hellblazer 182 - 16,779 ( -0.3% )
6 month -9.6%
Mar Tom Strong's Terrific Tales 7 - 16,620 ( -3.2% )
6 month -14.1%
Mar Harley Quinn 30 - 16,165 ( -2.4% )
6 month -17.8%
Mar Stormwatch: Team Achilles 9 - 15,428 ( 6.3% )
6 month -20.8%
Mar Spectre 27 - 14,703 ( 1.9% )
6 month -10.0%
Mar Azrael Agent of the Bat 100 - 14,225 ( 9.1% )
6 month -2.3%
Mar Justice League Adventures 17 - 13,942 ( -2.5% )
6 month -10.8%
Mar Lucifer 36 - 13,561 ( -0.1% )
6 month -4.7%
Mar Hellblazer Special: Lady Constantine 4 - 13,426 ( -3.4% )
Mar Power Company 14 - 13,205 ( 0.8% )
6 month -16.2%
Mar Doom Patrol 18 - 13,119 ( -4.0% )
6 month -16.6%
Mar Sandman Presents Bast 3 - 12,763 ( -2.6% )
Mar Batman: Gotham Adventures 60 - 12,112 ( 6.1% )
6 month -1.7%
Mar Hunter Age of Magic 21 - 11,387 ( -1.5% )
6 month -9.6%
Mar Sleeper 3 - 11,252 ( 9.0% )
Mar Codename: Knockout 22 - 10,158 ( -4.4% )
6 month -15.3%
Mar American Century 24 - 9,262 ( -0.5% )
6 month -9.3%
Mar Zero Girl: Full Circle 5 - 8,353 ( -3.1% )
Mar 21 Down 7 - 7,935 ( -2.7% )
6 month -55.6%
Mar Powerpuff Girls 36 - 7,923 ( -0.4% )
6 month -16.7%
Mar Automatic Kafka 9 - 7,886 ( -1.5% )
6 month -34.4%
Mar Scooby-Doo 70 - 5,712 ( -3.1% )
6 month -13.8%
Mar Resistance 7 - 5,589 ( -3.1% )
6 month -62.7%
Mar Looney Tunes 100 - 5,454 ( 63.9% )
6 month 56.0%
Mar Forever Maelstrom 5 - 4,164 ( -14.2% )
Mar Big Daddy Danger 8 - 3,169 ( -6.5% )
6 month -58.9%
Mar Cartoon Cartoons 16 - 2,494 (-17.9%)
6 month -25.9%
OK, what have we learned? Of 64 books, 43 posted month-on-month declines,
and only 6 didn't decrease over six months. Of those posting increases, or
at least holding steady, you'll find the typical anniversary issue bump
(Looney Tunes) and bumps for final issues of series (Supergirl, Young
Justice). Also, you'll find books by a bunch of writers that Marvel have
pursued and added to their stable (Y The Last Man, Flash, JSA, Green
Lantern).
So, DC is declining at the same or faster rate as Marvel, has no top 10
books other than Batman, and isn't posting the positive financial outlooks
that Marvel is. Are you sure it's Quesada who needs to be fired?
--
Carlos Hernandez Fisher | "Dogs lie. We know they do."
cahe...@nospam.sfu.ca | -- Dr. Lawrence J. Myers
remove 'nospam' to reply | Auburn Veterinary Medicine
Mathew Krull
>On Wed, 21 May 2003 16:37:46 -0400, Paul O'Brien wrote
>
>
>
>>1. BATMAN
>>Mar Batman #613 - 147,799
>>Apr Batman #614 - 153,129 (+3.6%)
>>
>>
>
>This proves quality sell more then Manga , are you there Marvel? hello???
>
>
>
Then why isn't Y the Last Man in the top 10? All this proves is that
Jim Lee sells better than Manga.
>
>
>>5,6. NEW X-MEN
>>Mar New X-Men #138 - 95,278
>>Apr New X-Men #139 - 95,981 (+0.7%)
>>Apr New X-Men #140 - 94,925 (-1.1%)
>>
>>More or less level.
>>
>>
>
>yes more like less and less and less, guess kia asa-garbage-mia
>didn't hel did he.
>
>
>
Wrong book. Kia Asamya has never drawn an issue of New X-Men.
--
My name is not misspelled.
Mathew Krull
>In the 50s comics sales were down and things some how turn around,
>Dc and marvel did have something to do with it.
>Today DC doesn't care to increase sales they have said so many times
>
Cite a source, please. The only place I have seen this staement was in
an open letter from Bill Jemas.
Laura M. Parkinson
<pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>43. HUMAN TORCH
>Apr Human Torch #1 - 37,103
>
>Another Tsunami book. Not exactly huge figures, and lower than the
>parent book. Slightly surprising to see this chart below MYSTIQUE, to
>be honest. Might reflect scepticism about the popularity of the art
>style.
This looks like a good point to jump in and say something I've been
wondering about - namely, while Marvel (and others) keep just
assuming, with their "ooo, the art is the most important, give us
eyecandy" mindset, that the popularity of manga is due to the
artstyle. You get Manga X-Men, Manga Spider-man, etc.... but isn't
this missing the point? For real manga fans, what's the real draw? Is
it the art, or the writing?
I've been more into anime than manga for quite a while, but lately
I've started really picking up a lot of the Tokyopop manga books, and
frankly the thing that keeps me coming back and wanting to complete
the series, and branch out and try new ones, isn't just the art.
Sometimes that's a part of it, but what's *really* got me especially
hooked are the stories. Now I suppose there are tics and cliches and
so on in manga, but they're also different from the ones in normal US
books and stories, and thus still fairly fresh and new. And they're
ADDICTIVE. Of course, I don't know how much some of the typical manga
stories that I read are going to appeal to the typical guy out there
(although I also know a fair number of guys who are really into the
"Shoujo" manga as well), but for me, that's the big draw. Yeah, I like
some of the eyecandy as well, but I'm not going to shell out ten bucks
an issue for over ten issues just for that.
So is it just me? Is Marvel completely missing a giant clue in this,
trying to just slap some manga-style art on something and appeal to
the manga audience, while the writing misses the mark by a mile? I
mean even the Mangaverse, which has some different writing, is mostly
just playing around with the different manga style conventions rather
than trying to be a cohesive whole that just takes its cue from a
manga influence.
What are others' thoughts on this? Especially those who are also manga
readers?
R. Tang
Rampus <dfgkj...@kdlklsd.com> wrote:
>Who cares about DC we are talking about marvel in the marvel newsgroup?
>take you beef in the DC newsgroup if have a problem.
>
>
>On Thu, 22 May 2003 17:17:31 -0400, Carlos Hernandez wrote
>(in message <bajepb$mtb$1...@morgoth.sfu.ca>):
>
>>
>> And this compares with DC how, exactly? Let's take a look at March's
>> numbers, shall we?
Oh, Dim One, one cannot ascertain how well marvel is doing without
comparing them to the competition. If DC comics are doing as poorly or
worse as marvel comics, then criticism of Quesada and Jemas misses the
point.
Hm. Didn't I see a post with figures that showed exactly that?
Mathew Krull
>My god are you for real? It is comic books hystory about a fifth of the
>Archives talk about this in the introduction.
>Do a yahoo search, LOL
>
>
So, you don't even have one source of a DC official saying that they do
not want high sales. Thought so.
>
>
>On Thu, 22 May 2003 17:40:17 -0400, Mathew Krull wrote
>(in message <bajgm9$q39$2...@news.cfu.net>):
Jeremy Henderson
<lpark...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 21 May 2003 21:37:46 +0100, Paul O'Brien
><pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>>43. HUMAN TORCH
>>Apr Human Torch #1 - 37,103
>>
>>Another Tsunami book. Not exactly huge figures, and lower than the
>>parent book. Slightly surprising to see this chart below MYSTIQUE, to
>>be honest. Might reflect scepticism about the popularity of the art
>>style.
>
>This looks like a good point to jump in and say something I've been
>wondering about - namely, while Marvel (and others) keep just
>assuming, with their "ooo, the art is the most important, give us
>eyecandy" mindset, that the popularity of manga is due to the
>artstyle. You get Manga X-Men, Manga Spider-man, etc.... but isn't
>this missing the point? For real manga fans, what's the real draw? Is
>it the art, or the writing?
The writing is much more part of the appeal of manga than Marvel seems
to realize (or at least will acknowledge). But art is much easier to
imitate.
And even there, they seem to miss the point by quite a wide margin.
"Manga art" is much more than big eyes and speed lines, and is far
more diverse than most people give the Japanese creators credit for.
>I've been more into anime than manga for quite a while, but lately
>I've started really picking up a lot of the Tokyopop manga books, and
>frankly the thing that keeps me coming back and wanting to complete
>the series, and branch out and try new ones, isn't just the art.
>Sometimes that's a part of it, but what's *really* got me especially
>hooked are the stories. Now I suppose there are tics and cliches and
>so on in manga, but they're also different from the ones in normal US
>books and stories, and thus still fairly fresh and new. And they're
>ADDICTIVE.
>Of course, I don't know how much some of the typical manga
>stories that I read are going to appeal to the typical guy out there
>(although I also know a fair number of guys who are really into the
>"Shoujo" manga as well), but for me, that's the big draw. Yeah, I like
>some of the eyecandy as well, but I'm not going to shell out ten bucks
>an issue for over ten issues just for that.
I think between Lone Wolf and Cub, Dragon Ball Z, Akira and the like,
the boys are perfectly well taken care of in terms of suitable manga
reading material, not to mention work that is less gender-centric,
like Astro Boy, Phoenix or Eagle. One of manga's strengths is its
diversity.
>So is it just me? Is Marvel completely missing a giant clue in this,
>trying to just slap some manga-style art on something and appeal to
>the manga audience, while the writing misses the mark by a mile?
Definitely. But with "Wolverine: Snikt!" and the upcoming X-Men
Unlimited by Kazuo Koike they're pulling in some manga writing talent,
so maybe they are starting to get the point. If they really get the
point, they'll release Snikt as a $10 digest instead of a full-sized
$15 TPB, but what are the chances of that happening?
Paul O'Brien
Henderson <hel...@tampabay.rr.com> writes
>If they really get the point, they'll release Snikt as a $10 digest
>instead of a full-sized $15 TPB, but what are the chances of that
>happening?
I think the fact that they're bothering to release Snikt! in serial form
at all implies that they still haven't really grasped the point,
particularly as regards pacing issues.
--
Paul O'Brien
THE X-AXIS - http://www.thexaxis.com
ARTICLE 10 - http://www.ninthart.com
T minus 7.
Scott Dubin
Very true comment, but unfortunetly if Marvel put out a true manga
style book it would likely not sell very well. Take a look at
Runaways, a fresh, well written, well drawn book that fails to sell
because its not superhero and doesn't recycle any old Marvel
characters.
The neat thing about Manga is it can make whats old new again. In
American comics high school life seems to always be depicted as Stan
Lee did in Spider-man. I find this, at this point in my life,
completly boring. I've read Untold Tales of Spider-man and Essential
Spider-man and I've read enough, I have no interest in seeing the
geeky kid can't fit in dealing with bullies in school stuff anymore,
they've frankly been done to death and are huge cliches now.
In Manga, on the other hand, the high school stuff is very different.
There's a much bigger emphasise on first love and dating, and the main
characters are much more likely to be socially capable. Some actiony
manga depict high school as an anarchistic place where fights break
out all the time. Not realistic, but fresh and interesting compared
to the Spider-man archetype of high school.
I doubt I'd read any superhero comic set in a high school at this
point, they're all same old same old. (Possible exception, Mark
Waid's Impulse, which has a high sense of fun in the high school
scenes)
James Moar
> On Thu, 22 May 2003 18:03:05 -0400, Laura M. Parkinson
> <lpark...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >On Wed, 21 May 2003 21:37:46 +0100, Paul O'Brien
> ><pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>43. HUMAN TORCH
> >>Apr Human Torch #1 - 37,103
> >>
> >>Another Tsunami book. Not exactly huge figures, and lower than the
> >>parent book. Slightly surprising to see this chart below MYSTIQUE, to
> >>be honest. Might reflect scepticism about the popularity of the art
> >>style.
> >
> >This looks like a good point to jump in and say something I've been
> >wondering about - namely, while Marvel (and others) keep just
> >assuming, with their "ooo, the art is the most important, give us
> >eyecandy" mindset, that the popularity of manga is due to the
> >artstyle. You get Manga X-Men, Manga Spider-man, etc.... but isn't
> >this missing the point? For real manga fans, what's the real draw? Is
> >it the art, or the writing?
>
> The writing is much more part of the appeal of manga than Marvel seems
> to realize (or at least will acknowledge). But art is much easier to
> imitate.
I'd say both are important factors, as well.
> And even there, they seem to miss the point by quite a wide margin.
> "Manga art" is much more than big eyes and speed lines, and is far
> more diverse than most people give the Japanese creators credit for.
To point at some imported examples, see Lone Wolf and Cub, Astro Boy,
Bakune Young, Black and White, and Lupin III. None of them look very
much like the stereotypical manga style, or much like each other.
Something which can be seen as part of both writing and art is the
different storytelling style in most manga -- much more leisurely and
decompressed. To take Lone Wolf as an example, all those 60-page
stories could be quite easily told in 22 pages -- but you'd lose most
of the quiet moments, most of the pacing, and most of the delight of
seeing the characters *doing* things in front of your eyes.
Then there's all those multivolume soap operas (which don't have to
compete for pagecount with obligatory fight scenes), slow-burn epics,
series of standalone stories, &c. Though, on the downside, there are
good stories that go on far too long, and stories which are full of
blah.
I wonder if the complaints about comics reading too quickly are a
result of Marvel trying to copy the manga storytelling style, but not
all that well, and in a format that isn't that suited to it.
> >I've been more into anime than manga for quite a while, but lately
> >I've started really picking up a lot of the Tokyopop manga books, and
> >frankly the thing that keeps me coming back and wanting to complete
> >the series, and branch out and try new ones, isn't just the art.
> >Sometimes that's a part of it, but what's *really* got me especially
> >hooked are the stories. Now I suppose there are tics and cliches and
> >so on in manga, but they're also different from the ones in normal US
> >books and stories, and thus still fairly fresh and new. And they're
> >ADDICTIVE.
I think some of the tics and cliches will become for obvious with time
(they have for me), but addictive's the word...
> >Of course, I don't know how much some of the typical manga
> >stories that I read are going to appeal to the typical guy out there
> >(although I also know a fair number of guys who are really into the
> >"Shoujo" manga as well), but for me, that's the big draw. Yeah, I like
> >some of the eyecandy as well, but I'm not going to shell out ten bucks
> >an issue for over ten issues just for that.
>
> I think between Lone Wolf and Cub, Dragon Ball Z, Akira and the like,
> the boys are perfectly well taken care of in terms of suitable manga
> reading material, not to mention work that is less gender-centric,
> like Astro Boy, Phoenix or Eagle. One of manga's strengths is its
> diversity.
And I'm glad to see the imports getting even more diverse, lately.
Tokyopop's added in a lot of titles aimed at female readers, and
helped widen the range of genres as well. Viz, with Shonen Jump, is
bringing over a fair few titles aimed at a younger male audience than
most manga that's already out there.
(Another interesting difference between the Japanese market and the
American one is how targetted -- by age, sex, attitude, and sometimes
by specialist interest -- the former is, whereas the latter often
seems confused about its readership, and tries to stretch one book
over multiple markets)
> >So is it just me? Is Marvel completely missing a giant clue in this,
> >trying to just slap some manga-style art on something and appeal to
> >the manga audience, while the writing misses the mark by a mile?
>
> Definitely. But with "Wolverine: Snikt!" and the upcoming X-Men
> Unlimited by Kazuo Koike they're pulling in some manga writing talent,
> so maybe they are starting to get the point.
I suppose we'll have to find out whether this is the Kazuo Koike who
wrote Lone Wolf and Cub, or the Kazuo Koike who wrote lots of
soft-porn men's adventure stories. The latter would be entertaining in
a wrong sort of way...
> If they really get the
> point, they'll release Snikt as a $10 digest instead of a full-sized
> $15 TPB, but what are the chances of that happening?
> _______________________________
> Life's a lot like a freak show.
> Nobody laughs when they leave.
--
James Moar
Johanna Draper Carlson
> Of 64 books, 43 posted month-on-month declines,
> and only 6 didn't decrease over six months.
Which is typical. Periodial comic readers get jaded quickly, so most
titles have a gradual attrition. That's why books need changes, like new
creative teams or plot stunts, to draw their attention back.
The April DC comparisons are now posted in rac.misc and rac.dc.u.
--
Johanna Draper Carlson
Reviews of Comics Worth Reading -- http://www.comicsworthreading.com
Newly updated: Reviews of FCBD titles, 411, Batgirl, Gotham Central,
Stormwatch, Titans/Young Justice, Savage Dragon, more Image titles