Dr.Strange (Was:Re: I got New Warriors #60 today...
EvanSkol
and why he is so young now?
I am lost>>>
Well, it's a VERRRY long story. My advice would be to just accept the
changes, unless you feel like tracking down and buying DOCTOR STRANGE #60
- #75 (though just buying #72 - #75 might explain enough for you).
-- Evan Skolnick
Michael Cavgnaro
: Well, it's a VERRRY long story. My advice would be to just accept the
: changes, unless you feel like tracking down and buying DOCTOR STRANGE #60
: - #75 (though just buying #72 - #75 might explain enough for you).
: -- Evan Skolnick
'Course, with the upcoming changes (not that I disliked the "old" New
Doctor Strange) won't all that be retconned out of history? In the new
Marvel preview it made it look like the "real" Doc was stranded in the
Vishanti's realm while all of that Stranger nonsense went on. So, in
effect, none of David's stories really "matter". Am I right?
-- boy, if Warren Ellis wasn't going to be writing this book, I'd
drop it in a second.
Mike
Lundgren, Chad
Dear Lord man!!!!! Why the hell didn't you put spoilers in front of that
revelation you made in this post???? I almost ripped my hair out when
reading it!!!
There. That's more like it. Aw cripes! This can't be! What is this?
Dallas? It's bad enough when it happens in other books, but for crying
out loud, I liked these changes. No more manipulation. No more reliance
on other magical beings for your power. And now this? I pray that it's a
cruel joke or that it was just a storyline they were throwing around the
room.
In article <3pan89$i...@starfish.acs.brockport.edu> mc0...@starfish.acs.brockport.edu (Michael Cavgnaro) writes:
> 'Course, with the upcoming changes (not that I disliked the "old" New
> Doctor Strange) won't all that be retconned out of history? In the new
> Marvel preview it made it look like the "real" Doc was stranded in the
> Vishanti's realm while all of that Stranger nonsense went on. So, in
> effect, none of David's stories really "matter". Am I right?
>
> -- boy, if Warren Ellis wasn't going to be writing this book, I'd
> drop it in a second.
>
> Mike
>.
>.
Chad Lundgren--------->lundg...@music.lib.matc.edu
2211 N. Newhall St. *************************************************
Milwaukee, WI 53202 *"Bumbie's mom is...AAAAAHHHHHHHHH!" *
* -Skippy (Animaniacs) *
*HUGS* and *PONGS* *************************************************
for all!!! * "Taz like Dingo" *
* -Taz (Taz-Mania) *
*************************************************
EvanSkol
mc0...@starfish.acs.brockport.edu (Michael Cavgnaro) writes:
> 'Course, with the upcoming changes (not that I disliked the "old" New
> Doctor Strange) won't all that be retconned out of history? In the new
> Marvel preview it made it look like the "real" Doc was stranded in the
> Vishanti's realm while all of that Stranger nonsense went on. So, in
> effect, none of David's stories really "matter". Am I right?
>
> -- boy, if Warren Ellis wasn't going to be writing this book, I'd
> drop it in a second.
>
> Mike
>.
>.
<<<<Dear Lord man!!!!! Why the hell didn't you put spoilers in front of
that
revelation you made in this post???? I almost ripped my hair out when
reading it!!!
[spoiler space deleted]
There. That's more like it. Aw cripes! This can't be! What is this?
Dallas? It's bad enough when it happens in other books, but for crying
out loud, I liked these changes. No more manipulation. No more reliance
on other magical beings for your power. And now this? I pray that it's a
cruel joke or that it was just a storyline they were throwing around the
room.
Chad Lundgren--------->lundg...@music.lib.matc.edu
2211 N. Newhall St. >>>>
Yeesh...if that's what Warren Ellis had in mind, then the term "SPOILER"
has more than one meaning, eh?
Of course, the beauty of it is that whatever Warren retconned may itself
be retconned by new writer J. M. DeMatteis. If anyone's going to
immediately return Doc's status to that of the 70's, it would be JMD,
IMHO...
This whole thing is weird for me ... kind of like being evicted from your
home and then being forced to watch as they tear it down...
-- Evan Skolnick
Michael Cavgnaro
: <<<<Dear Lord man!!!!! Why the hell didn't you put spoilers in front of
: that
: revelation you made in this post???? I almost ripped my hair out when
: reading it!!!
Eeep! Sorry, I forgot not everybody got the Marvel Preview Collector's
Edition #1 Super Special... apologies to all.
: There. That's more like it. Aw cripes! This can't be! What is this?
: Dallas? It's bad enough when it happens in other books, but for crying
: out loud, I liked these changes. No more manipulation. No more reliance
: on other magical beings for your power. And now this? I pray that it's a
: cruel joke or that it was just a storyline they were throwing around the
: room.
Me too! I _never_ liked Strange until David Quinn took over, Oh well,
I'll stick around anyways, being that I like Warren almost as much as I
like David.
: Of course, the beauty of it is that whatever Warren retconned may itself
: be retconned by new writer J. M. DeMatteis. If anyone's going to
: immediately return Doc's status to that of the 70's, it would be JMD,
: IMHO...
WHAAAAT?!? A _new_ new writer?!? Man! The last comic that this happened
to was X-Factor, and I dropped that last month. Why is Warren leaving?
I guess it would have something to do with his workload. I wish he was
staying, the previews looked great..
: This whole thing is weird for me ... kind of like being evicted from your
: home and then being forced to watch as they tear it down...
Evan, I will be honest with you and say that I used to think you were
a lousy writer and editor. Then, I saw what happened when you were
"removed" from your editing duties... your books go straight to pot! (Though
GR 2099 seems to be on the upswing) I even dropped NW when you came on..
something I still regret, given the good comments I have heard on rac*.
It seems to me that you should seek other employment, perhaps with a company
that will treat both you and the characters you edit/write with respect.
Mike
Patrick Williams
> Yeesh...if that's what Warren Ellis had in mind, then the term "SPOILER"
> has more than one meaning, eh?
>
> Of course, the beauty of it is that whatever Warren retconned may itself
> be retconned by new writer J. M. DeMatteis. If anyone's going to
> immediately return Doc's status to that of the 70's, it would be JMD,
> IMHO...
What's this about JM "What's DeMatteis with clones?" replacing Warren
Ellis? So does that mean Ellis will only be writing one or two issues
and then he's gone?
And did JM Dematteis write that pretty funky 70s Defenders storyline
involving an orange Gargoyle who was really the mayor of a cursed town?
Phillip Carter
>Of course, the beauty of it is that whatever Warren retconned may itself
>be retconned by new writer J. M. DeMatteis. If anyone's going to
>immediately return Doc's status to that of the 70's, it would be JMD,
>IMHO...
AUGH!!!!! Not *another* new writer! The biggest problem I have with Marvel
these days is not the artwork (though it is deteriorating) or the
storylines (which are stagnating) or the prices (which are escalating). I'm
simply fed up with the inability to keep a permanent creative team on
the books for more than three issues in a row.
The Dr. Strange teams are a perfect example. First we had Quinn/Rubi/Harper,
which was excellent and IMHO the perfect team for the book. Rubi did maybe
five issues before Fred Harper left and Peter Gross replaced Rubi/Harper.
I liked Gross' work, but he also didn't do issues on a regular basis, making
it difficult for me to evaluate it. Issue #75 had astounding artwork
by Mark Buckingham and Gross, but soon afterward we found out David Quinn
was going to leave the book, as was Gross. Marie told us that Warren
Ellis would be writing Doc and that Mark Buckingham would be the new regular
penciller with issue #80, but then _Marie_ left _her_ job as well.
Now Evan tells us J.M. DeMatteis will be writing Doc. Evan, what happened
to Warren Ellis? How many issues did (or will) he write before he leaves
(or left)? And do you know if Buckingham will be staying on as penciller?
If so the series may yet be salvageable.
Perhaps Warren's departure was influenced by Marie's leaving her editorial
position. I understand Marie helped choose Warren as new writer. Mayhap
Warren didn't like the idea of being supervised by Bobbie Chase (surprise,
surprise) without someone else to help intercede.
>This whole thing is weird for me ... kind of like being evicted from your
>home and then being forced to watch as they tear it down...
"Tear it down." A very good description of what was poised to become one of
the premier comics out there. A shaky foundation and poor builders, however,
are attempting to topple the monolith before it could even be built.
*sigh* Come back, Evan! We need you...
Cheers,
Phil
--
Phil Carter -- car...@phoenix.cs.uga.edu
"Atheism's a clean place, Agachak, a flat, gray, empty place where man
makes his own destiny, and let the Gods go hang. I didn't make them; they
didn't make me; and we're quits on all of that." -- Urgit, King of the Murgos
Tony Williams
> Of course, the beauty of it is that whatever Warren retconned may itself
> be retconned by new writer J. M. DeMatteis. If anyone's going to
> immediately return Doc's status to that of the 70's, it would be JMD,
> IMHO...
>
Can you put me straight here Evan,
Are you saying Warren is only on Dr.Strange short-term then J.M.D. takes
over ?
Tony.
Jacob W Michaels
: Evan wrote:
: >Of course, the beauty of it is that whatever Warren retconned may itself
: >be retconned by new writer J. M. DeMatteis. If anyone's going to
: >immediately return Doc's status to that of the 70's, it would be JMD,
: >IMHO...
: AUGH!!!!! Not *another* new writer! The biggest problem I have with Marvel
: these days is not the artwork (though it is deteriorating) or the
: storylines (which are stagnating) or the prices (which are escalating). I'm
: simply fed up with the inability to keep a permanent creative team on
: the books for more than three issues in a row.
Well, it definitely seems like the day of 15 year runs on books are
done. However, you can still see some long runs on some books. I guess
it depends on the individual book. Fabe was on New Warriors for 5 years
and his artists both had 25 issues each. Fabe and Scott have been doing
the X-Men books for a few years now. Harras and Epting spent a lot of
time on Avengers, and Harras is still doing it I believe. Wasn't Gruenwald
on Captain America for a long time? You're right though for the books
that are constantly changing creative teams like Excalibur and Doc
Strange. It really suffers for that, but unfortunately Mighty Marvel
doesn't seem to care. :(
Jacob
EvanSkol
>Ellis? So does that mean Ellis will only be writing one or two issues
>and then he's gone?
Actually, I think it adds up to three ...
-- Evan Skolnick
EvanSkol
editorial position. I understand Marie helped choose Warren as new writer.
Mayhap Warren didn't like the idea of being supervised by Bobbie Chase
(surprise, surprise) without someone else to help intercede. >>>>
Except for the word "helped choose" (it should be "chose"), your analysis
is extremely perceptive...
-- Evan Skolnick
Ian Glover
wrote:
It appears (heavy reading between the lines here :) to be what I suspected
- Marie Javins dumps David Quinn to bring in Warren Ellis, then she quits
and Warren's out.
Why? Are Marie Javins & Warren Ellis part of the same secret society or
something? More seriously, what _was_ the stated reason for getting rid of
David Quinn?
--
Ian Glover
London, UK
Mitchell Gil Maltenfort
i...@bookworm.demon.co.uk (Ian Glover) wrote:
Don't assume Marie did the dumping. A quickly-infamous situation occured
when Bobbie Chase took it upon herself to fire DG Chicester from Daredevil
while Marie (who in the totem pole was between Bobbie and Chicester) was
out of town. David Quinn may have been similarly burned by Ms. Chase.
In which case: Dan, what was her fax number again? I'm finishing my Ph.D
thesis and so far I've got 100 pages going... ;^>
--
Mitchell Maltenfort Northwestern University m...@nwu.edu
Mathematicians write symphonies. Scientists create instruments. Engineers build music boxes.
MJavins
occured
when Bobbie Chase took it upon herself to fire DG Chicester from Daredevil
while Marie (who in the totem pole was between Bobbie and Chicester) was
out of town. David Quinn may have been similarly burned by Ms. Chase.
In the case of Dr. Strange, I solely did the firing. Bobbie had nothing to
do with it.
Marie Javins
Ian Glover
So, why? What, in your professional opinion, would Warren Ellis have
brought to Doctor Strange that David Quinn didn't/couldn't?
This isn't a flame, I'm seriously interested, because I _liked_ what David
did to Dr Strange.
MJavins
David
did to Dr Strange.
Sorry, but I *really* did not. And the fans seemed to be very divided over
it.
Ian Glover
Fair enough, your choice. I *really* liked Warren's Druid, so I'll wait
until I see his three Dr Strange issues before deciding whether or not you
taking over just long enough to sack David Quinn was a good or bad thing.
IMHO, of course :).
Synsidar
>>So, why? What, in your [INSERT: Marie Javins] professional opinion,
>>would Warren Ellis have brought to Doctor Strange that David Quinn
>>didn't/couldn't?
>>This isn't a flame, I'm seriously interested, because I _liked_ what
David
>>did to Dr Strange.
In a general sense, one could expect Warren Ellis to restore a sense of
the
mystical to the series. Quinn's stories were more superhero-oriented;
the issues of DR. STRANGE featuring Polaris and the Hulk, if merely
padding
in plotting terms, had better characterization than the "regular" stories
did.
In recent issues, the subplot showing the effects of the War on Dormammu's
dimension has been a mistake, I think, because it turns the "Dark
Dimension"
into another run-of-the-mill fantasy setting with less mysticism--even
if Quinn and Skolnick were more comfortable with that approach.
One might also expect Ellis to show more attention to detail and depth in
his characterization. Quinn's Salome was much more of a plot device to
get
"elemental magick" into the series than a serious opponent. There was a
severe lack of motivation and character background. As for detail: Well,
to cite two examples: Quinn continued to have Strange use the Orb of
Agamotto
when he shouldn't have even had it, much less been able to use it; Quinn
also
gave Dormammu a physical body when it had been established years ago that
Dormammu's body was pure flame. It's possible to go into more detail on
Quinn's plotting/characterization weaknesses (I have in other venues) but
there would be little point to that now.
Steven R. Stahl
Ian Glover
wrote:
Yes, all good points (I found Clea's dialogue when she went after Stephen
terrible - how long was she living on Earth?). What I meant was the
general new direction (new base, new style(s) of magic, new cast members,
etc).
The issue where "Strange" travels to Australia was a favourite of mine;
it's about time Dr Strange was shown as Sorcerer Supreme of Earth, not
Sorcerer Supreme of New York State.