Taskmaster - Why is he B grade?
theope...@my-deja.com
Photographic reflexes. Mastered almost every form of fighting known to
man, Trains relentlessly. Sounds like a total badass.
Except he's got a color scheme and motif on his costume that are nothing
short of embarrassing, he got beat up by Deadpool and had his "ninja
academy" go under because of it, and he hangs out with the likes of the
Constrictor. Didn't he even get slapped around by Red Skull once or
twice, and wasn't Red Skull like a grillion years old?
How did such a potentially impressive character become such a lame-o (I
know, writers did it, but you know). Sheesh. I'd like to see
Taskmaster grow up and become somebody.
-Hannibal Tabu
freelance assassin
www.operative.net
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
Sean_Walsh
theope...@my-deja.com wrote:
> Somebody mentioned Tasky in the Scourge thread, and it made me
remember.
> Photographic reflexes. Mastered almost every form of fighting known
to
> man, Trains relentlessly. Sounds like a total badass.
>
> Except he's got a color scheme and motif on his costume that are
nothing
> short of embarrassing, he got beat up by Deadpool and had his "ninja
> academy" go under because of it, and he hangs out with the likes of
the
> Constrictor. Didn't he even get slapped around by Red Skull once or
> twice, and wasn't Red Skull like a grillion years old?
>
> How did such a potentially impressive character become such a lame-o
(I
> know, writers did it, but you know). Sheesh. I'd like to see
> Taskmaster grow up and become somebody.
Many in the fan base easily agree that, in terms of skills and smarts,
Taskmaster is the #1 villain in comics.
Yet Deadpool kicks his ass in the course of 1 comic book issue.
I remember long ago Joe Kelly saying he wanted to use him extensively
in Deadpool, but after his initial issue, he became a one-timer villain
of the book (until Priest brought him back briefly in his run...)
I think Kurt Busiek's said something similar also...but again, nuthin's
happened yet...
Sean
:)
--
"Crime yes! Criminals no!"
New Gods Library: http://fastbak.tripod.com/
Quantum Piett: http://www.mponte.com/sean
Bala Menon
news:930d9e$uj$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <930cil$as$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> theope...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > Somebody mentioned Tasky in the Scourge thread,
> > and it made me remember. Photographic reflexes.
> > Mastered almost every form of fighting known to
> > man, Trains relentlessly. Sounds like a total badass.
Yup. One of my favourite MU villains. He also doesn't
show up too often because unlike other super-criminals,
he prefers to keep a low profile. No profit in fighting
super-heroes (unless they bug him, when they become
good examples for his class).
> Many in the fan base easily agree that, in terms of skills
> and smarts, Taskmaster is the #1 villain in comics.
I wouldn't go that far :-) Victor von Doom's armour can
do the same thing, mimicking someone else's skills,
and Doc Doom is waaay smarter than the Taskmaster.
But the Taskmaster's certainly one of the most formidable
villains around.
> Yet Deadpool kicks his ass in the course of 1 comic book issue.
Which is precisely when (and why) I dropped Deadpool ...
--
Bala Menon (b.m...@worldnet.att.net)
Johanna Draper Carlson
> Photographic reflexes. Mastered almost every form of fighting known to
> man, Trains relentlessly. Sounds like a total badass.
Sounds like an obsessive geek with no life. Or Batman. :)
Johanna Draper Carlson joh...@comicsworthreading.com
Reviews of Comics Worth Reading -- http://www.comicsworthreading.com
Newly updated: Blue Monday, Scary Godmother, Dork Tower, Sleepers,
Shades of Blue, The Red Star, January Previews!
Michael Alan Chary
Taskmaster is a *smart* villain. He makes money by training other
villains. He doesn't do stupid things like take on Thor or Iron Man in
open combat. And when the going gets tough, he gets going ... very
quickly.
I would like to see him in Black Panther.
--
George W. Bush is our new president elect! Hail to the Thief!
"Ipsa scientia potestas est." - Roger Bacon
Dave Whiteley
only a "B-grade" because his heart isn't really in it. He's more
interested in making money, not risking his neck in battle. That's why
he set up training academies instead of robbing banks himself. As
close as he can get to being a "legit" worker.
Now, if something were to change his motivation, he could be a very
dangerous man.
Dave Whiteley
Adam Cadre
> Taskmaster is a *smart* villain. [...] I would like to see him in
> Black Panther.
We will have an understanding between us, Barney Toastmaster. Speak of
it to no man...
-----
Adam Cadre, Sammamish, WA
web site: http://adamcadre.ac
novel: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0060195584/adamcadreac
popu...@my-deja.com
> Yet Deadpool kicks his ass in the course of 1 comic book issue. <
> Which is precisely when (and why) I dropped Deadpool ... <
FYI it was tated that Taskmaster taught Deadpool everything he knows
so, it is possible that the student could beat the teacher... However
unlikely...
popu...@my-deja.com
> Somebody mentioned Tasky in the Scourge thread, and it made me
remember. Photographic reflexes. Mastered almost every form of
fighting known to man, Trains relentlessly. Sounds like a total
badass. <
No sounds like Batman or Captain America...
> Except he's got a color scheme and motif on his costume that are
nothing short of embarrassing, he got beat up by Deadpool and had
his "ninja academy" go under because of it, and he hangs out with the
likes of the Constrictor. <
Deadpool kicked his arse for three reasons
#1 - 'Pool fighting style is unpredictible, so hard to react to..
#2 - 'Pool was trained by the best aka TASKMASTER! It would be like
fighting himself...
#3 - 'Pool FIGHTS DIRTY!
> Didn't he even get slapped around by Red Skull once or twice, and
wasn't Red Skull like a grillion years old? <
Your kidding right? Hell Task could take down Capt, and the Red Skull
beat him? UGH!
Alan Travis
> Somebody mentioned Tasky in the Scourge thread, and it made me remember.
> Photographic reflexes. Mastered almost every form of fighting known to
> man, Trains relentlessly. Sounds like a total badass.
He is.
> Except he's got a color scheme and motif on his costume that are nothing
> short of embarrassing
I don't know. I noticed that Deathstroke the Terminator also has an orange
and blue color scheme. He's popular. I liked Taskmaster's costume. Ever
since I saw the cover to Avengers #196, it's been one of my favorites.
> he got beat up by Deadpool and had his "ninja academy" go under because of
> it
That was Joe Kelly trying to funny at the expense of his characters.
> and he hangs out with the likes of the Constrictor.
Hey, I like the Constrictor.
> Didn't he even get slapped around by Red Skull once or
> twice, and wasn't Red Skull like a grillion years old?
When was this?
> How did such a potentially impressive character become such a lame-o (I
> know, writers did it, but you know). Sheesh. I'd like to see
> Taskmaster grow up and become somebody.
I'd definitely like to see him regain some of the respect he lost when Joe
Kelly abused him.
Alan
Alan Travis
> > Yet Deadpool kicks his ass in the course of 1 comic book issue.
>
> Which is precisely when (and why) I dropped Deadpool ...
Me, too.
Alan
Alan Travis
> I think Kurt Busiek's said something similar also...but again, nuthin's
> happened yet...
Kurt used him in Avengers #26. He tricked an ad hoc Avengers team into
attacking the Triune Understanding.
Alan
Matt Adler
understanding of his powers. It's not your fault, most writers don't know
how to write him. To sum up, he's extremely smart, well equipped, is a
master of all known forms of combat, PLUS he can duplicate any move or
fighting style just by seeing it, so long as it doesn't require superhuman
powers. Note: This is not a talent or skill. This is a mutant ability called
"photographic reflexes". So yes, he should have handed Deadpool his ass. For
a cool cover featuring some of the T-Man's henchmen, check out:
http://24.5.116.80/scans/A/Amazing%20Spiderman/Amazing%20Spider-Man%20%23367
.jpg
pan...@stats.com
Alan Travis <alnt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> theope...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > Except he's got a color scheme and motif on his costume that are
nothing
> > short of embarrassing
>
> I don't know. I noticed that Deathstroke the Terminator also has an
orange
> and blue color scheme. He's popular. I liked Taskmaster's costume.
Ever
> since I saw the cover to Avengers #196, it's been one of my favorites.
>
>
I'm pretty sure both costumes were designed by Perez, hence their
similarities. Both classic examples of Perez designs. Sometimes a bit
busy.
For the most part I like Perez' designs. I think he tends to gets a bit
carried away with adding bits and pieces of armor to his costumes. I
suppose if I were a super-hero/villain, I'd use armor too but his
character designs seem to more often than not have some type of plate
or banded or chain mail armor incorporated.
There are of course plenty of his designs that have no armour,
surprisingly enough, Nightwing was one of them. You'd figure Dick
Grayson would want to add some protection to his new look. That was one
of his "busy" costumes that's since been simplified by subsequent
artists.
Carlos Panizo
Jim Kinsey
news:3a547...@dilbert.ic.sunysb.edu...
> Some of you guys who are dissing Taskmaster clearly don't have an
> understanding of his powers. It's not your fault, most writers don't know
> how to write him. To sum up, he's extremely smart, well equipped, is a
> master of all known forms of combat, PLUS he can duplicate any move or
> fighting style just by seeing it, so long as it doesn't require superhuman
> powers. Note: This is not a talent or skill. This is a mutant ability
called
> "photographic reflexes". So yes, he should have handed Deadpool his ass.
For
> a cool cover featuring some of the T-Man's henchmen, check out:
>
I agree on most of your point, apart from the DP bit. It makes a certain
sort of sense that DP can beat someone like Barney because he's a complete
loon. Kind of like the fact that Bugs Bunny would always beat Dracula...
Jim
--
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend, inside a dog it's too dark
to read"
--Groucho Marx
theope...@my-deja.com
pan...@stats.com wrote:
> I'm pretty sure both costumes were designed by Perez, hence their
> similarities. Both classic examples of Perez designs. Sometimes a bit
> busy.
>
> For the most part I like Perez' designs. I think he tends to gets a
bit
> carried away with adding bits and pieces of armor to his costumes. I
> suppose if I were a super-hero/villain, I'd use armor too but his
> character designs seem to more often than not have some type of plate
> or banded or chain mail armor incorporated.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a huge fan of the cape and cowl gag, and the
shield, the little flared boots, that's all cool. I am, for some
reason, remembering a blue or orange tint to his costume which I found
strange. If his costume were a study in absolutes, I think it'd work
better. Colors are my issue, not the costume structure itself.
> There are of course plenty of his designs that have no armour,
> surprisingly enough, Nightwing was one of them. You'd figure Dick
> Grayson would want to add some protection to his new look. That was
one
> of his "busy" costumes that's since been simplified by subsequent
> artists.
I've always wondered why the Dick Grayson-esque heroes didn't get shot a
lot more often. I mean, at least the X-universe uses "unstable
molecule" outfits as an excuse. Despite acrobatic ability, multiple
gunmen with automatic weaponry should be able to paste most heroes, and
I've seen tons of them hop out of the way of walls of lead. Oh well.
I would like to see Taskmaster get some respect as well. I think he's
fresh.
I also wanted to clarify -- Red Skull didn't mano-a-mano beat Tasky, I
believe Tasky was working for the Skull and Skull treated him like a
tool, slapping him and yelling at him to do stuff, which I thought was
beneath a man of Taskmaster's abilities and prowess.
-Hannibal Tabu
freelance assassin
www.operative.net
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
pan...@stats.com
>
> > There are of course plenty of his designs that have no armour,
> > surprisingly enough, Nightwing was one of them. You'd figure Dick
> > Grayson would want to add some protection to his new look. That was
> one
> > of his "busy" costumes that's since been simplified by subsequent
> > artists.
>
> I've always wondered why the Dick Grayson-esque heroes didn't get
shot a
> lot more often. I mean, at least the X-universe uses "unstable
> molecule" outfits as an excuse. Despite acrobatic ability, multiple
> gunmen with automatic weaponry should be able to paste most heroes,
and
> I've seen tons of them hop out of the way of walls of lead.
> -Hannibal Tabu
Do you mean to say that unstable molecules are bullet proof? If so, I
never knew that. I just always figured it was a way to explain how
costumes stretch, don't burn off, or turn invisible with the Fantastic
Four. It then went on to explain other costume/power conundrums such as
Colossus blue pants disapearing when he turns to metal, Storm's costume
mysteriously appearing when she activates her powers (and we're talking
about from bikini to full costume, no saying she's got her costume on
under her street clothes), etc...
Carlos Panizo
Consul de Designers
> Taskmaster is a *smart* villain. He makes money by training other villains. He doesn't do
> stupid things like take on Thor or Iron Man in open combat. And when the going gets tough,
> he gets going ... very quickly.
That's what I like about Taskmaster, he's not a villain, he's a business
manager. :)
> I would like to see him in Black Panther.
You know what would be nice, if we Taskmaster teaching regular folks as well,
not just henchman. Like T'Challa and Tony's corps have security forces trained
by him or some subsidy.
--
[Jameson Stalanthas Yu, Shade and Sweet Water, mes amis and Edgerunners]
[Link at http://www-rcf.usc.edu/~jamesony]
[Mutatis mutandis, strive to be humane, not human]
Paul O'Brien
<jimk...@beeb.net> writes
>
>I agree on most of your point, apart from the DP bit. It makes a certain
>sort of sense that DP can beat someone like Barney because he's a complete
>loon.
The Deadpool story proceeded on an unfortunate misapprehension as to
how Taskmaster's powers are meant to work. He's meant to be able to
re-enact anything he's seen done before. Kelly wrote him as if he
could only mimic the style of his present opponent, if I remember
rightly, allowing Deadpool to defeat him by random style shifts.
Paul O'Brien
THE X-AXIS REVIEWS - http://www.esoterica.demon.co.uk
From the relatively fashionable west end of Glasgow.
Priest
Jim Kinsey <jimk...@beeb.net> wrote in message
news:932h35$17sg$1...@news.beeb.net...
> Matt Adler <mad...@ic.sunysb.edu> wrote in message
> news:3a547...@dilbert.ic.sunysb.edu...
> > Some of you guys who are dissing Taskmaster clearly don't have an
> > understanding of his powers. It's not your fault, most writers don't
know
> > how to write him. To sum up, he's extremely smart, well equipped, is
a
> > master of all known forms of combat, PLUS he can duplicate any move
or
> > fighting style just by seeing it, so long as it doesn't require
superhuman
> > powers. Note: This is not a talent or skill. This is a mutant
ability
> called
> > "photographic reflexes". So yes, he should have handed Deadpool his
ass.
> For
> > a cool cover featuring some of the T-Man's henchmen, check out:
> >
>
> I agree on most of your point, apart from the DP bit. It makes a
certain
> sort of sense that DP can beat someone like Barney because he's a
complete
> loon. Kind of like the fact that Bugs Bunny would always beat
Dracula...
I hasten to add DP's basic strategy was to not attack Barney directly.
also, I don't think TM is B-Grade. Deadpool was merely being Deadpool.
Were it Doom, DP would mock him even harder.
cjp
Gratified That "Barney" Stuck :-)
Jim Kinsey
Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vpknVVAG...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...
> In article <932h35$17sg$1...@news.beeb.net>, Jim Kinsey
> <jimk...@beeb.net> writes
> >
> >I agree on most of your point, apart from the DP bit. It makes a certain
> >sort of sense that DP can beat someone like Barney because he's a
complete
> >loon.
>
> The Deadpool story proceeded on an unfortunate misapprehension as to
> how Taskmaster's powers are meant to work. He's meant to be able to
> re-enact anything he's seen done before. Kelly wrote him as if he
> could only mimic the style of his present opponent, if I remember
> rightly, allowing Deadpool to defeat him by random style shifts.
Ah. I think the only time I'd seen him prior to DP was an issue of Iron Man
where he was training the new Spymaster, years ago. Still, it was amusing
enough, and I don't think it's the kind of fluffed detail that would have
made me drop an otherwise great book.
pop slut
Priest <cpr...@priest.com> wrote in message
news:5l556.1954$fj6.1...@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Okay, my collection of Deadpool is just a mite patchy, so would anyone mind
explining to me where the "Barney" thing came ffrom (as well as Skeeter and
the other nicknames before 'Pool got blasted into space with the bloody
interns...)?
--
b m c ____ will swear for food
icq47130468
______________________________
www.misterridiculous.com/columns/briancaffrey.html
http://wecome.to/intelligentinsanity
www.savantmag.com
popu...@my-deja.com
> Gratified That "Barney" Stuck :-) <
> Okay, my collection of Deadpool is just a mite patchy, so would
anyone mind explining to me where the "Barney" thing came ffrom (as
well as Skeeter and the other nicknames before 'Pool got blasted into
space with the bloody interns...)? <
I believe that was the sensational writing talents of Mr. Christopher
Priest, who's time on Deadpool was cut too short...
popu...@my-deja.com
> Some of you guys who are dissing Taskmaster clearly don't have an
understanding of his powers. <
1 - I ain't dissing him, I think he is great. But Deadpool beat him by
simply not sticking to any one style, forcing TM to constantly have to
readjusting his attack. Could Deadpool beat him again? Not a chance in
Hell as TM known what to expect and will plan for it...
2 - I know what his powers are, the MUTANT ability to copy any move he
has ever seen and reproduce it exactly minus any enhanced attribute
Priest
pop slut <brian...@esatclear.ie> wrote in message
news:8o856.129$r17....@news.iol.ie...
> > cjp
> > Gratified That "Barney" Stuck :-)
>
> Okay, my collection of Deadpool is just a mite patchy, so would anyone
mind
> explining to me where the "Barney" thing came ffrom (as well as
Skeeter and
> the other nicknames before 'Pool got blasted into space with the
bloody
> interns...)?
It was right around the time of the Deadpool Interns (TM) that DP
strated calling Taskmaster "Barney Toastmaster," for no other reason
than it amused DP's writer that he do so. He referred to TM as "Barney"
until said amused writer was unceremoniously booted from the series as
of issue #45.
"Skeeter" dates waaaaaaaay back to Secret Wars. Mary McPherson, a
production assistant, was Tuckerized into the super-powered Titania (a
huge in-joke, if you knew Mary), and Jim Shooter gave Titania the
nickname "Skeeter" for some reason.
Highlights from what you may have missed can be found here:
http://home.att.net/~priest-comics/deadpool.htm
Best,
cjp
Matt Adler
"Priest" <cpr...@priest.com> wrote:
> "Skeeter" dates waaaaaaaay back to Secret Wars. Mary McPherson, a
> production assistant, was Tuckerized into the super-powered Titania (a
> huge in-joke, if you knew Mary),
C'mon let us in on the joke...
Alan Travis
> This is a mutant ability called "photographic reflexes".
Who said Taskmaster was a mutant?
Alan
Alan Travis
> I've always wondered why the Dick Grayson-esque heroes didn't get shot a
> lot more often. I mean, at least the X-universe uses "unstable
> molecule" outfits as an excuse.
Who said unstable molecules deflect bullets?
Alan
Alan Travis
> I'm pretty sure both costumes were designed by Perez, hence their
> similarities. Both classic examples of Perez designs.
Yep. George did both. Great work.
Alan
Matt Adler
"Alan Travis" <alnt...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3A5588B0...@earthlink.net...
I forget exactly where, but I do recall reading it from a semi-authoritative
source... can anyone confirm?
Bala Menon
>
> > Yet Deadpool kicks his ass in the course of 1 comic book issue. <
>
> > Which is precisely when (and why) I dropped Deadpool ... <
>
> FYI it was tated that Taskmaster taught Deadpool everything
> he knows so, it is possible that the student could beat the
> teacher... However unlikely...
Sure. If this teacher went to sleep and this student crept up
with a really big gun. But the way it happened goes against
everything we do know about the Taskmaster. It was completely
lazy writing. And that's not something I care for.
--
Bala Menon (b.m...@worldnet.att.net)
popu...@my-deja.com
> This is a mutant ability called "photographic reflexes".
> Who said Taskmaster was a mutant?
Don't know but it sense. Plus he one lucky mutie. Cool power without
any external signs. He could make MILLIONS as an action movie star....
Terrafamilia
Paul O'Brien wrote:
> In article <932h35$17sg$1...@news.beeb.net>, Jim Kinsey
> <jimk...@beeb.net> writes
> >
> >I agree on most of your point, apart from the DP bit. It makes a certain
> >sort of sense that DP can beat someone like Barney because he's a complete
> >loon.
>
> The Deadpool story proceeded on an unfortunate misapprehension as to
> how Taskmaster's powers are meant to work. He's meant to be able to
> re-enact anything he's seen done before. Kelly wrote him as if he
> could only mimic the style of his present opponent, if I remember
> rightly, allowing Deadpool to defeat him by random style shifts.
But that still won't work. Random style shifts would be Deadpool's style.
That style would then be mimicable by Taskmaster and Deadpool should still get
his butt kicked.
Ciao,
Terrafamilia
pop slut
Cheers dude!
theope...@my-deja.com
pan...@stats.com wrote:
> Do you mean to say that unstable molecules are bullet proof? If so, I
> never knew that.
They're not? I coulda swore I read that somewhere. Oh well, perhaps
that was during my delusional period.
-Hannibal Tabu
freelance assassin
www.operative.net
Robert Carnegie
But if it's really random, then Taskmaster can't mimic
that, because the next time, Deadpool has _different_
random moves.
Hey! Do you suppose that _Taskmaster_ is the new
Scourge, in _Thunderbolts_, who has moves like Captain
America's?
hoc...@attglobal.net
Robert Carnegie
>Hey! Do you suppose that _Taskmaster_ is the new
>Scourge, in _Thunderbolts_, who has moves like Captain
>America's?
Gary H.
Matthew Campbell
I think you're being just a wee bit harsh. I mean, sure you can say
that Taskmaster is better than Deadpool. Fine.
But it doesn't necessarily follow that it would be _impossible_ for
Deadpool to beat him. Two guys fight, and sometimes the better fighter
doesn't win. Maybe Taskmaster had too much bran in his breakfast that
morning. Maybe he just plain had a bad day.
It isn't like Aunt May beating up Thor. Deadpool and Taskmaster are
both very skilled and very tough. I don't see anything wrong with
saying that Deadpool got lucky, had a good day, and managed to win one.
Sheesh. You make it sound like it totally wrecks Taskmaster as a
character to have anyone ever win a fight with him. It wasn't a
walkover. Deadpool did something crazy, took some chances, and threw
Taskmaster off his game enough to win. There's no reason to think the
same tactic would work a second time.
--
Matthew Campbell
E-mail: ieng...@earthlink.net
Bala Menon
Matthew Campbell <ieng...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:3A566552...@earthlink.net...
> Bala Menon wrote:
> >
> > <popu...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:93127q$i0p$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > >
> > > > Yet Deadpool kicks his ass in the course of
> > > > 1 comic book issue. <
> > >
> > > > Which is precisely when (and why) I dropped Deadpool ... <
> > >
> > > FYI it was tated that Taskmaster taught Deadpool everything
> > > he knows so, it is possible that the student could beat the
> > > teacher... However unlikely...
> >
> > Sure. If this teacher went to sleep and this student crept up
> > with a really big gun. But the way it happened goes against
> > everything we do know about the Taskmaster. It was completely
> > lazy writing. And that's not something I care for.
>
> I think you're being just a wee bit harsh.
A wee bit, certainly. The example was hyperbole.
> I mean, sure you can say
> that Taskmaster is better than Deadpool. Fine.
Yep. No question there.
> But it doesn't necessarily follow that it would be
> _impossible_ for Deadpool to beat him.
No, it wouldn't be, but ... so far, every time Taskmaster's
been beaten, his opponent's come up with something
fairly imaginative, that Taskmaster couldn't duplicate.
If Deadpool had done that, I'd be fine with it. This
was lazy writing for the sake of a cheap shot.
> Two guys fight, and sometimes the better fighter
> doesn't win. Maybe Taskmaster had too much bran
> in his breakfast that morning. Maybe he just plain
> had a bad day.
Taskmaster is a _lot_ better than that. And he's gone
up against folk a lot better than Deadpool. Even
Spiderman has a rough time with him, and Spidey's
much better than 'Pool. Taskmaster's defeat has to
be a lot more convincing for me to accept it; this one
didn't even make an attempt.
> It isn't like Aunt May beating up Thor.
Cosmic-powered Aunt May ? The Golden Oldie ?
We could debate that, if you want ...
Or if you mean that 'Pool of Thunder could defeat
Taskmaster, I'll give you that one too.
> Deadpool and Taskmaster are both very skilled
> and very tough. I don't see anything wrong with
> saying that Deadpool got lucky, had a good day,
> and managed to win one.
I've no argument with Deadpool winning a battle
with the Taskmaster. However, the way he did it
was totally unconvincing. Hand-to-hand combat ?!!
Even Iron Fist'd have a tough time of it.
> Sheesh. You make it sound like it totally wrecks
> Taskmaster as a character to have anyone ever
> win a fight with him.
Now who's being hyperbolic ?
The Taskmaster character will survive a lot worse
handling than this. What won't survive is my opinion
of the writer. If I think his writing's lazy, it's not going
to hold my attention. Simple.
It's not like Kelly's an exception to the rule. I happen
to think that James Robinson is extremely lazy when
it comes to handling other characters. That's probably
the main reason I don't bother with STARMAN. Yet,
Robinson's very good in his own self-contained universe,
and I love LEAVE IT TO CHANCE.
> It wasn't a walkover. Deadpool did something crazy,
> took some chances, and threw Taskmaster off his game
> enough to win. There's no reason to think the
> same tactic would work a second time.
Or a first.
--
Bala Menon (b.m...@worldnet.att.net)
Royce
Hmmm... I wonder, does being completely bonkers count as an "enhanced
attribute"? If Wade's insanity was effecting his fighting style,
could Barney copy it?
Ryan
Royce
The unstable molecule costumes aren't bulletproof. Just ask Doug
Ramsey.
Ryan
Alan Travis
> > This is a mutant ability called "photographic reflexes".
>
> > Who said Taskmaster was a mutant?
>
> Don't know but it sense. Plus he one lucky mutie. Cool power without
> any external signs. He could make MILLIONS as an action movie star....
Doesn't pay as well as selling goons to Doc Doom.
As for being a mutie, feh!
There's enough of those guys walking about. We don't need anymore.
Alan
Alan Travis
> Hmmm... I wonder, does being completely bonkers count as an "enhanced
> attribute"? If Wade's insanity was effecting his fighting style,
> could Barney copy it?
Nope. Crazy is not a physical action. He could copy the moves, but not the
mental impulses that decide what to do and when to do them.
Alan
Alan Travis
> > The Deadpool story proceeded on an unfortunate misapprehension as to
> > how Taskmaster's powers are meant to work. He's meant to be able to
> > re-enact anything he's seen done before. Kelly wrote him as if he
> > could only mimic the style of his present opponent, if I remember
> > rightly, allowing Deadpool to defeat him by random style shifts.
>
> But that still won't work. Random style shifts would be Deadpool's style.
> That style would then be mimicable by Taskmaster and Deadpool should still get
> his butt kicked.
Taskmaster doesn't mimic styles. He mimic moves. He can't know how a crazy
person thinks. That's not a physical action. He can do the same kick as
Deadpool, but he can't predict when he's going to go bonkers on him and fight like
a spastic child.
I still think Taskmaster should be able to kick his ass, but it's not as easy as
copying his style.
Alan
Robert Carnegie
_That_ attitude, friend, is what gives the X-books their
major angst. So the more people think like you, the
more X-books we'll get. Is that what you want? ;-)
Alan Travis
> _That_ attitude, friend, is what gives the X-books their
> major angst. So the more people think like you, the
> more X-books we'll get. Is that what you want? ;)
Uh... hating the X-Men brings about more X-men?
Head. hurts.
Alan
Robert Carnegie
Well, the X-Men exist as a team because of anti-mutant
prejudice - or so they say. In Professor X's ideal
world, all the good-guy mutants would be reserve
Avengers. No X-books. Ergo, the mess we've got now,
where my local stores file all mutant character books
under the twenty-fourth letter of the alphabet, is _your_
fault! Hey, tell me to go back to r.a.c.m.xbooks like a
good little mutie-lover, why don't you :-)
Robert Carnegie
End Segregation Now!
Michael Alan Chary
Alan Travis <alnt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Terrafamilia wrote:
>
>> > The Deadpool story proceeded on an unfortunate misapprehension as to
>> > how Taskmaster's powers are meant to work. He's meant to be able to
>> > re-enact anything he's seen done before. Kelly wrote him as if he
>> > could only mimic the style of his present opponent, if I remember
>> > rightly, allowing Deadpool to defeat him by random style shifts.
>>
>> But that still won't work. Random style shifts would be Deadpool's style.
>> That style would then be mimicable by Taskmaster and Deadpool should still get
>> his butt kicked.
>
>Taskmaster doesn't mimic styles. He mimic moves. He can't know how a crazy
>person thinks. That's not a physical action. He can do the same kick as
>Deadpool, but he can't predict when he's going to go bonkers on him and
>fight like
>a spastic child.
Taskmaster fights as well as Daredevil, Captain America, Spiderman,
Punisher, Swordsman, Iron Fist and whoever else he has happened to study.
He's only one guy, so he can't do everything all at once, but the notion
that his inability to predict Deadpool would stop Tasky is a bit silly.
He'd simply decide, "I'll use this move from Cap, and this from Iron Man
and this from Black Widow and follow up with this punch from Joe Frazier."
Who needs to mimic a style?
--
George W. Bush is our new president elect! Hail to the Thief!
"Ipsa scientia potestas est." - Roger Bacon
Sean_Walsh
Alan Travis <alnt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Sean_Walsh wrote:
>
> > I think Kurt Busiek's said something similar also...but again,
nuthin's
> > happened yet...
>
> Kurt used him in Avengers #26. He tricked an ad hoc Avengers team
into
> attacking the Triune Understanding.
Alan Davis preview pages from Avengers #38 are up at Newsarama...and it
seems I'm either a mind-reader or just real lucky in making my prior
statement when I did...
;)
--
"Crime yes! Criminals no!"
New Gods Library: http://fastbak.tripod.com/
Quantum Piett: http://www.mponte.com/sean
Andrew Krepela
Bala Menon <b.m...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>It's not like Kelly's an exception to the rule. I happen
>to think that James Robinson is extremely lazy when
>it comes to handling other characters. That's probably
>the reason I don't bother with STARMAN.
That's a real shame then. Its an excellent series (it will end at issue
#80 but all issues are or will be reprinted in trad paperback format) that
is well WRITTEN. The characters are human, realistic and you actually care
what happens to them. Robinson writes other characters VERY well. The
latest issue of Starman #75 guest stars SUPERMAN and its one of the best
crossover appearences of Superman I have read. (The other being when the
big "S" guest starred in an issue of HITMAN). you're really missing out on
some high quality work.
--
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ |\ zZZZ ,,,---,,_ @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@ Andrew /,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_ www.eskimo.com/~icebrkr @@
@@ Krepela |,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' Enjoy Your Shoes! @@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ /---''(_/--' `-'\_) @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Alan Travis
> Taskmaster fights as well as Daredevil, Captain America, Spiderman,
> Punisher, Swordsman, Iron Fist and whoever else he has happened to study.
> He's only one guy, so he can't do everything all at once, but the notion
> that his inability to predict Deadpool would stop Tasky is a bit silly.
>
> He'd simply decide, "I'll use this move from Cap, and this from Iron Man
> and this from Black Widow and follow up with this punch from Joe Frazier."
> Who needs to mimic a style?
Exactly.
Alan
Alan Travis
> Well, the X-Men exist as a team because of anti-mutant
> prejudice - or so they say. In Professor X's ideal
> world, all the good-guy mutants would be reserve
> Avengers. No X-books. Ergo, the mess we've got now,
> where my local stores file all mutant character books
> under the twenty-fourth letter of the alphabet, is _your_
> fault! Hey, tell me to go back to r.a.c.m.xbooks like a
> good little mutie-lover, why don't you :-)
Get back to RACMX, ya scum!
Alan
Bala Menon
news:937fk3$q66$1...@eskinews.eskimo.com...
> In article <93605j$98aso$1...@ID-40971.news.dfncis.de>,
> Bala Menon <b.m...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> >It's not like Kelly's an exception to the rule. I happen
> >to think that James Robinson is extremely lazy when
> >it comes to handling other characters. That's probably
> >the reason I don't bother with STARMAN.
>
> That's a real shame then. Its an excellent series
A matter of opinion, no ? I don't find it to be such.
> (it will end at issue #80 but all issues are or will be
> reprinted in trad paperback format) that is well WRITTEN.
As I mentioned in the section of my post that you snipped,
Robinson may do his own characters well (I like LEAVE IT
TO CHANCE) but he's not particularly good at playing in
a shared universe.
> The characters are human, realistic and you actually care
> what happens to them.
Your opinion. I honestly don't care what happens to Jack Knight.
On the other hand, Roger Stern made me care a great deal
about Will Payton ...
> Robinson writes other characters VERY well.
Good Lord. No. This I definitely disagree with.
All characters other than Robinson's own suffer an IQ drop
of 50 points when they appear in one of his titles. Take a
look at the JLE massacre issue, where the JLE'ers fall
over themselves in an attempt to commit suicide at the
hands of the Mist. Or far, far better, check out the Girlfrenzy
issue of the Mist, where a girl with the Wisdom of Solomon
suddenly displays the brains of Solomon Grundy, and begs
the Mist not to fire a pistol at a person across the room.
This, from a girl, who besides that aforementioned Wisdom
of Solomon, also possesses the Speed of Mercury (not to
mention Invulnerability). Or (so I'm told) Ted Knight's death,
when the Mist tries to shoot Ted with a pistol, rather than
commit suicide and trigger a nuke. Few people, other than
Robinson's protagonists, display intelligence in his books.
And that is lazy writing. It's a lot easier to play the hero
game when your foes are of the caliber of the Purple Piledriver,
rather than Lex Luthor.
> you're really missing out on some high quality work.
I think I'm safe.
You want to see people playing well in a shared universe ?
Check out Kurt Busiek. Or Christopher Priest. Or Walt
Simonson. Or Alan Brennert. Or (easy shots) Alan Moore
and Neil Gaiman, both of whom demonstrated an excellent
grasp of the characters they used in their DCU books.
--
Bala Menon (b.m...@worldnet.att.net)
Alan Travis
> In article <3A54113D...@earthlink.net>,
> Alan Travis <alnt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > Sean_Walsh wrote:
> >
> > > I think Kurt Busiek's said something similar also...but again,
> nuthin's
> > > happened yet...
> >
> > Kurt used him in Avengers #26. He tricked an ad hoc Avengers team
> into
> > attacking the Triune Understanding.
>
> Alan Davis preview pages from Avengers #38 are up at Newsarama...and it
> seems I'm either a mind-reader or just real lucky in making my prior
> statement when I did...
Link, please?
Alan
Bala Menon
> Sean_Walsh wrote:
>
> > Alan Davis preview pages from Avengers #38
> > are up at Newsarama...
>
http://www.fandom.com/comics/editorial.asp?action=page&obj_id=253158
--
Bala Menon (b.m...@worldnet.att.net)
Matt Adler
"Bala Menon" <b.m...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:937onm$932s1$1...@ID-40971.news.dfncis.de...
> Alan Travis <alnt...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:3A575BDC...@earthlink.net...
> > Sean_Walsh wrote:
> >
> > > Alan Davis preview pages from Avengers #38
> > > are up at Newsarama...
> >
> > Link, please?
>
> http://www.fandom.com/comics/editorial.asp?action=page&obj_id=253158
Or more specifically,
http://www.fandom.com/multimedia/Comics/News/ComicsNews253917.JPG
Jim Kinsey
Very nice, but as with T-Bolts #50s cover, I guess a spoiler warning is in
order.
http://www.fandom.com/comics/editorial.asp?action=page&obj_id=253158
Jim
--
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend, inside a dog it's too dark
to read"
--Groucho Marx
Matt Adler
We could use more that aren't incestuously tied to the X-universe, like the
Scarlet Witch... all "mutant" means is that you were born with your powers.
Matt Adler
Don't question it. Just start loving them. One by one, you'll see the titles
fade into cancellation...
Bala Menon
news:3a56f...@dilbert.ic.sunysb.edu...
>
> "Alan Travis" <alnt...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:3A56E174...@earthlink.net...
> > popu...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > > > This is a mutant ability called "photographic reflexes".
> > >
> > > > Who said Taskmaster was a mutant?
> > >
> > > Don't know but it sense. Plus he one lucky mutie.
> > > Cool power without any external signs.
Lots of those around, actually. And Northstar did use
his flight and speed powers in his early days to make
himself a skiing champion. Emma Frost certainly
capitalized on her powers.
> > Doesn't pay as well as selling goons to Doc Doom.
> >
> > As for being a mutie, feh!
> >
> > There's enough of those guys walking about.
> > We don't need anymore.
>
> We could use more that aren't incestuously tied to the
> X-universe, like the Scarlet Witch... all "mutant" means
> is that you were born with your powers.
And that your parents didn't have them, which is how
Namor's itty-bitty wings qualify him as a mutant.
--
Bala Menon (b.m...@worldnet.att.net)
Alan Travis
All mutant means is that Stan was growing tired of thinking up origins.
Alan
Alan Travis
Well, I did love Uncanny about ten years ago. That only led to a decade of bad
comics.
Alan
Bala Menon
It's a slow process. First I started loving X-Man during
Counter-X. Then it became a bad Authority rip-off.
And now it's being cancelled.
They're just accelerating the pace ...
--
Bala Menon (b.m...@worldnet.att.net)
Matt Adler
"Alan Travis" <alnt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> All mutant means is that Stan was growing tired of thinking up origins.
Why does every superhero need some kind of gee-whiz origin? Frankly, I think
radioactive spiders, cosmic rays, and gamma bombs are far more contrived
than simply saying, "They were born that way".
Alan Travis
I'm not disagreeing with that. I was just talking about Stan's intent.
Alan
KurtBusiek
>
> Why does every superhero need some kind of gee-whiz origin? Frankly, I think
> radioactive spiders, cosmic rays, and gamma bombs are far more contrived
> than simply saying, "They were born that way".
>>I'm not disagreeing with that. I was just talking about Stan's intent.>>
And you were mistaken.
If you don't like the books, that's fine, but there's no need to denigrate the
ideas behind them. The idea of mutants as a race, complete with Magneto's
assumed racial destiny, was present from the first issue, which gives the book
a central concept that's about more than easy origins.
I suspect that Stan -- or quite likely Jack -- was inspired to varying degrees
by CHILDREN OF THE ATOM by Walter Shiras, SLAN by A.E. Van Vogt and MUTANT by
Henry Kuttner, all SF works of earlier decades that trod similar ground.
MUTANT, in particular, is about a race of bald telepathic mutants that are
arising among normal humanity due to nuclear radiation, and waging a sub rosa
war between the "sane" mutants and the "paranoid" mutants -- the paranoid
mutants want to enslave all of humanity and the sane mutants have to stop them,
because if humanity is left to come out with a solution, they'll wipe out all
mutants out of fear and hatred, not distinguishing between the good ones and
the bad ones. It's a powerful work, and virtually all the themes planted in
X-MEN #1-15 show up in it -- it's a fine book for X-Men fans interested in how
the story eventually "ends."
So I don't think Stan's only concern was that he was tired of thinking up
origins, any more than the first Spider-Man story was put into AMAZING FANTASY
#15 as a one-shot because the book was cancelled so why not? [It's clear from
AF #15 and Marvel's own records that the first Spidey story was intended as the
start of a series, and several chapters were under way before AF was
cancelled.] The idea of a step forward in evolution and the clash both among
the mutants and between mutants and humanity was the central concept, and it
wouldn't have been there if "They were born that way" was the only concern.
kurt
Matthew Campbell
>
> Matthew Campbell <ieng...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:3A566552...@earthlink.net...
> > Bala Menon wrote:
> > >
> > > <popu...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:93127q$i0p$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > > >
> > > > > Yet Deadpool kicks his ass in the course of
> > > > > 1 comic book issue. <
> > > >
> > > > > Which is precisely when (and why) I dropped Deadpool ... <
> > > >
> > > > FYI it was tated that Taskmaster taught Deadpool everything
> > > > he knows so, it is possible that the student could beat the
> > > > teacher... However unlikely...
> > >
> > > Sure. If this teacher went to sleep and this student crept up
> > > with a really big gun. But the way it happened goes against
> > > everything we do know about the Taskmaster. It was completely
> > > lazy writing. And that's not something I care for.
> >
> > I think you're being just a wee bit harsh.
>
> A wee bit, certainly. The example was hyperbole.
>
> > I mean, sure you can say
> > that Taskmaster is better than Deadpool. Fine.
>
> Yep. No question there.
>
> > Two guys fight, and sometimes the better fighter
> > doesn't win. Maybe Taskmaster had too much bran
> > in his breakfast that morning. Maybe he just plain
> > had a bad day.
>
> Taskmaster is a _lot_ better than that. And he's gone
> up against folk a lot better than Deadpool. Even
> Spiderman has a rough time with him, and Spidey's
> much better than 'Pool. Taskmaster's defeat has to
> be a lot more convincing for me to accept it; this one
> didn't even make an attempt.
Is Spider-Man "a lot better than 'Pool"? I'm not so sure. Deadpool is
a guy who debuted kicking around teams of X-Men. He's tossed around
Wolverine. He's held his own (for a little while) against a team of
Avengers.
I'd say that 'Pool really _is_ that good. Captain America or Iron Fist
level, easily. Just because he doesn't act like a serious martial arts
master doesn't mean he don't have the skillz. He's even got genuine
superpowers in the form of his healing factor, to let him takes hits
other people can't afford to.
Let's turn it around. What examples do you have of Deadpool _not_ being
a guy who can take on Spider-man or Iron Fist.... or Taskmaster? When
has he ever _not_ displayed that level of skill, from his very first
introduction?
>
> > It isn't like Aunt May beating up Thor.
>
> Cosmic-powered Aunt May ? The Golden Oldie ?
> We could debate that, if you want ...
Actually, it was supposed to be an example of a ridiculous matchup,
rather than refering to a specific comics story.
>
> Or if you mean that 'Pool of Thunder could defeat
> Taskmaster, I'll give you that one too.
'Pool of Thunder was just Deadpool with a Thor costume and the ability
to fly, no other powers.
>
> > Deadpool and Taskmaster are both very skilled
> > and very tough. I don't see anything wrong with
> > saying that Deadpool got lucky, had a good day,
> > and managed to win one.
>
> I've no argument with Deadpool winning a battle
> with the Taskmaster. However, the way he did it
> was totally unconvincing. Hand-to-hand combat ?!!
> Even Iron Fist'd have a tough time of it.
Even Iron Fist would have a tough time with Deadpool, according to the
skill level Pool has displayed in pretty much every story I've seen him
in.
>
> > It wasn't a walkover. Deadpool did something crazy,
> > took some chances, and threw Taskmaster off his game
> > enough to win. There's no reason to think the
> > same tactic would work a second time.
>
> Or a first.
Why not a first? Throwing someone off-balance in a fight is a perfectly
legitimate tactic, if you can pull it off. Get someone out of their
"groove", and they won't fight as well.
--
Matthew Campbell
E-mail: ieng...@earthlink.net
Alan Travis
> > > All mutant means is that Stan was growing tired of thinking up origins.
> >
> > Why does every superhero need some kind of gee-whiz origin? Frankly, I think
> > radioactive spiders, cosmic rays, and gamma bombs are far more contrived
> > than simply saying, "They were born that way".
>
> >>I'm not disagreeing with that. I was just talking about Stan's intent.>>
>
> And you were mistaken.
I'm sure I've read him saying that in the introduction to some X-book. I'm going
to try to track it down.
> If you don't like the books, that's fine
I do like the X-Men, just not lately.
> but there's no need to denigrate the ideas behind them.
I don't think that saying that Stan was tired of thinking up origins is denigrating
the idea. If I am remembering correctly, then I think he was being slightly
flippant. In the first book I checked, he mentions thinking that the Marvel U was
becoming populated with gamma radiation accidents, spider-bites, and sticks that
turned you into Gods. He thought being born with super powers would cut down on
the number of incredible circumstances and still allow him to create new heroes and
villains.
> The idea of mutants as a race, complete with Magneto's
> assumed racial destiny, was present from the first issue, which gives the book
> a central concept that's about more than easy origins.
Sure.
> I suspect that Stan -- or quite likely Jack -- was inspired to varying degrees
> by CHILDREN OF THE ATOM by Walter Shiras, SLAN by A.E. Van Vogt and MUTANT by
> Henry Kuttner, all SF works of earlier decades that trod similar ground.
> MUTANT, in particular, is about a race of bald telepathic mutants that are
> arising among normal humanity due to nuclear radiation, and waging a sub rosa
> war between the "sane" mutants and the "paranoid" mutants -- the paranoid
> mutants want to enslave all of humanity and the sane mutants have to stop them,
> because if humanity is left to come out with a solution, they'll wipe out all
> mutants out of fear and hatred, not distinguishing between the good ones and
> the bad ones. It's a powerful work, and virtually all the themes planted in
> X-MEN #1-15 show up in it -- it's a fine book for X-Men fans interested in how
> the story eventually "ends."
Stan originally wanted to call the X-Men "The Mutants".
> So I don't think Stan's only concern was that he was tired of thinking up
> origins, any more than the first Spider-Man story was put into AMAZING FANTASY
> #15 as a one-shot because the book was cancelled so why not? [It's clear from
> AF #15 and Marvel's own records that the first Spidey story was intended as the
> start of a series, and several chapters were under way before AF was
> cancelled.] The idea of a step forward in evolution and the clash both among
> the mutants and between mutants and humanity was the central concept, and it
> wouldn't have been there if "They were born that way" was the only concern.
I'll let you know when I find the quote or when I give up. It's possible that I'm
misattributing something to him, but I'm just so sure I've heard him make such a
statement.
Alan
Todd Kogutt: Scavenger
<kurtb...@aol.comics> wrote:
> > > All mutant means is that Stan was growing tired of thinking up origins.
> >
> > Why does every superhero need some kind of gee-whiz origin? Frankly, I think
> > radioactive spiders, cosmic rays, and gamma bombs are far more contrived
> > than simply saying, "They were born that way".
>
> >>I'm not disagreeing with that. I was just talking about Stan's intent.>>
>
> And you were mistaken.
>
> If you don't like the books, that's fine, but there's no need to denigrate the
> ideas behind them.
To be fair Kurt, I believe they're to some extent refering to a joke
Stan has made about the creation of his mutant characters.
---SCAVENGER
Todd Kogutt: Scavenger
<mch...@steel.ucs.indiana.edu> wrote:
> He'd simply decide, "I'll use this move from Cap, and this from Iron Man
> and this from Black Widow and follow up with this punch from Joe Frazier."
> Who needs to mimic a style?
I seem to recall he was specificly fighting in styles as a training
excercise for his students.
---SCAVENGER
Robert Carnegie
Alan Travis <alnt...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> KurtBusiek wrote:
>
> > > > All mutant means is that Stan was growing tired of thinking up origins.
> > >
> > > Why does every superhero need some kind of gee-whiz origin? Frankly, I think
> > > radioactive spiders, cosmic rays, and gamma bombs are far more contrived
> > > than simply saying, "They were born that way".
> >
> > >>I'm not disagreeing with that. I was just talking about Stan's intent.>>
> >
> > And you were mistaken.
>
> I'm sure I've read him saying that in the introduction to some X-book. I'm going
> to try to track it down.
>
> > If you don't like the books, that's fine
>
> I do like the X-Men, just not lately.
>
> > but there's no need to denigrate the ideas behind them.
>
> I don't think that saying that Stan was tired of thinking
> correctly, then I think he was being slightly flippant.
> In the first book I checked, he mentions thinking that
> the Marvel U was becoming populated with gamma radiation
> accidents, spider-bites, and sticks that turned you
> into Gods. He thought being born with super powers
> would cut down on the number of incredible circumstances
> and still allow him to create new heroes and villains.
That sounds like what Kurt said: non-mutant crazy origins
were just too contrived, unlikely.
(I just imagined a whole race of radioactive spiders living in
New York sewers...pity me. Or pity New York, possibly, as
the horrible hairy things emerge from all of the bath drains.)
In _Earth X_, everyone is superheroes, right?
Robert Carnegie
Glasgow, Scotland
Alan Travis
> To be fair Kurt, I believe they're to some extent refering to a joke
> Stan has made about the creation of his mutant characters.
So, you've heard him make a similar statement? I thought I was going nuts.
Alan
Matt Adler
"Robert Carnegie" <rja.ca...@mailexcite.com> wrote:
> > I don't think that saying that Stan was tired of thinking
> > up origins is denigrating the idea. If I am Remembering
> > correctly, then I think he was being slightly flippant.
> > In the first book I checked, he mentions thinking that
> > the Marvel U was becoming populated with gamma radiation
> > accidents, spider-bites, and sticks that turned you
> > into Gods. He thought being born with super powers
> > would cut down on the number of incredible circumstances
> > and still allow him to create new heroes and villains.
>
> That sounds like what Kurt said: non-mutant crazy origins
> were just too contrived, unlikely.
Actually, that's what I said.
Matt Adler
Yeah, I have too. Even if it was a serious statement though, I think it's
perfectly legitimate. It doesn't make sense to keep coming up with more and
more ridiculous origins just for the sake of originality. Besides, it's
wasn't like:
"How did they get their powers Uncle Stan?"
"Cuz! 'Nuff Said!"
Bala Menon
> Bala Menon wrote:
> > Matthew Campbell <ieng...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:3A566552...@earthlink.net...
> > > that Taskmaster is better than Deadpool. Fine.
> >
> > Yep. No question there.
>
> > > Two guys fight, and sometimes the better fighter
> > > doesn't win. Maybe Taskmaster had too much bran
> > > in his breakfast that morning. Maybe he just plain
> > > had a bad day.
> >
> > Taskmaster is a _lot_ better than that. And he's gone
> > up against folk a lot better than Deadpool. Even
> > Spiderman has a rough time with him, and Spidey's
> > much better than 'Pool. Taskmaster's defeat has to
> > be a lot more convincing for me to accept it; this one
> > didn't even make an attempt.
>
> Is Spider-Man "a lot better than 'Pool"? I'm not so sure.
Yeesh. This is really stretching it. Spidey's a lot
faster, stronger, much more agile, and has trained by
going up against rougher competition than 'Pool ever has.
> Deadpool is a guy who debuted kicking around teams of
> X-Men. He's tossed around Wolverine. He's held his own
> (for a little while) against a team of Avengers.
And Spiderman's knocked out and defeated a Herald of
Galactus in single combat.
This still doesn't come close to explaining 'Pool
defeating Taskmaster in hand-to-hand combat.
> I'd say that 'Pool really _is_ that good.
I'd say we've never seen evidence to that effect.
> Captain America or Iron Fist level, easily.
Deadpool ?! Nowhere close.
> Let's turn it around. What examples do you have
> of Deadpool _not_ being a guy who can take on
> Spider-man or Iron Fist.... or Taskmaster? When
> has he ever _not_ displayed that level of skill,
> from his very first introduction?
And this argument is akin to saying that Aunt May has
never _not_ displayed the level of skill to take on
Doctor Doom, since we've never seen her _not_ do it.
Negative proof isn't a useful argument here.
> > > It isn't like Aunt May beating up Thor.
> >
> > Cosmic-powered Aunt May ? The Golden Oldie ?
> > We could debate that, if you want ...
>
> Actually, it was supposed to be an example of a
> ridiculous matchup, rather than refering to a
> specific comics story.
I know. That wasn't a serious response.
> > > It wasn't a walkover. Deadpool did something crazy,
> > > took some chances, and threw Taskmaster off his game
> > > enough to win. There's no reason to think the
> > > same tactic would work a second time.
> >
> > Or a first.
>
> Why not a first? Throwing someone off-balance in a fight
> is a perfectly legitimate tactic, if you can pull it off.
Oh, it's a legitimate tactic, if, as you say, you can pull
it off. But aside from a cheap joke, nothing we know of
either Taskmaster or Deadpool makes that event a
believable one.
--
Bala Menon (b.m...@worldnet.att.net)
Matt Adler
"Bala Menon" <b.m...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> And Spiderman's knocked out and defeated a Herald of
> Galactus in single combat.
Have they done a Spidey's greatest battles compendium? If so, his fight with
Firelord should've been included. It was so gratifying to see him knock the
shit out of that arrogant prick. I'd also like to see some of his fights
when he had the Uni-power.
KurtBusiek
>
> And you were mistaken.
>>I'm sure I've read him saying that in the introduction to some X-book. I'm
going to try to track it down.>>
Oh, he's said things like it -- that's why I brought up his other statement
that Spider-Man was premiered in AF #15 because it was cancelled anyway, so why
not do it as a lark? It's just no more true than that story -- it's Stan being
a flippant huckster. I don't think you can seriously take that sort of thing
as an indicator of Stan's intent, when Stan is the first to admit his memory is
terrible.
But even if we take his description at face value, where you err, I think, is
when you reduce the idea of mutants to "all it means is Stan was tired of
thinking up origins." While it could have started there (though I highly doubt
it), that's not all it means by any stretch -- the implications of what
"mutant" means, in racial terms, was driving the concept from the beginning.
One of the places where Stan discusses the ideas you bring up is SON OF ORIGINS
OF MARVEL COMICS, and his rationale there isn't that he was tired of coming up
with origins, but that he was starting to think that scientific accidents were
too easy, too corny -- and from there he goes into the idea of mutants as
genetic sports, and what that would mean. He goes on to say that it justifies
whatever powers they should want to create, but that's only part of the
strength of the concept, not "all" of it.
So my objection isn't to the idea that Stan ever said that the idea of mutants
made it easy to justify superpowers, but to the idea that that's all it means.
It's not -- and wasn't, right from the start.
kurt
Alan Travis
> Yeah, I have too. Even if it was a serious statement though, I think it's
> perfectly legitimate. It doesn't make sense to keep coming up with more and
> more ridiculous origins just for the sake of originality.
Yeah, even if Stan had simply created mutants to avoid origin stories, I
wouldn't have a problem with it. It'd seem like a good idea to me.
Alan
Alan Travis
> > >>I'm not disagreeing with that. I was just talking about Stan's intent.>>
> >
> > And you were mistaken.
>
> >>I'm sure I've read him saying that in the introduction to some X-book. I'm
> going to try to track it down.>>
>
> Oh, he's said things like it --
That's all I meant to imply. I've read the intro to Sons of Origins so I know how
much thought Stan really put behind it.
> So my objection isn't to the idea that Stan ever said that the idea of mutants
> made it easy to justify superpowers, but to the idea that that's all it means.
> It's not -- and wasn't, right from the start.
It's a case of being flippant with a statement where Stan was being flippant.
Double flippancy.
Alan
Mikel Midnight
<b.m...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> > (it will end at issue #80 but all issues are or will be
> > reprinted in trad paperback format) that is well WRITTEN.
>
> As I mentioned in the section of my post that you snipped,
> Robinson may do his own characters well (I like LEAVE IT
> TO CHANCE) but he's not particularly good at playing in
> a shared universe.
Jack Knight is Robinson's own character. 8)
> > Robinson writes other characters VERY well.
>
> Good Lord. No. This I definitely disagree with.
> All characters other than Robinson's own suffer an IQ drop
> of 50 points when they appear in one of his titles. Take a
> look at the JLE massacre issue, where the JLE'ers fall
> over themselves in an attempt to commit suicide at the
> hands of the Mist. Or far, far better, check out the Girlfrenzy
> issue of the Mist, where a girl with the Wisdom of Solomon
> suddenly displays the brains of Solomon Grundy, and begs
> the Mist not to fire a pistol at a person across the room.
> This, from a girl, who besides that aforementioned Wisdom
> of Solomon, also possesses the Speed of Mercury (not to
> mention Invulnerability).
This isn't an absolute rule. It should be rather, 'All characters
other than Robinson's own suffer an IQ drop of 50 points when they
appear in one of his titles and battle the Mist.'
He does have an aggravating tendency to have other characters show up
and tell Jack how cool he is, though.
> Or (so I'm told) Ted Knight's death, when the Mist tries to shoot
> Ted with a pistol, rather than commit suicide and trigger a nuke.
Not true.
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
"She always had a terrific sense of humor" Mikel Midnight
(Valerie Solonas, as described by her mother)
blak...@best.com
______________________________________http://www.best.com/~blaklion/comics.html
Matthew Campbell
In what is widely regarded as one of the most unrealistic outcomes of
any fight in any Spider-man comic ever. (Spidey just isn't strong
enough to knock Firelord out.)
>
> This still doesn't come close to explaining 'Pool
> defeating Taskmaster in hand-to-hand combat.
>
> > I'd say that 'Pool really _is_ that good.
>
> I'd say we've never seen evidence to that effect.
Yes we have. He's fought Wolverine and dominated the fight, he's pushed
Kingpin to a standstill, he kicked Captain America in the nuts, and
well.... he beat Taskmaster, didn't he?
>
> > Captain America or Iron Fist level, easily.
>
> Deadpool ?! Nowhere close.
What makes you say that?
>
> > Let's turn it around. What examples do you have
> > of Deadpool _not_ being a guy who can take on
> > Spider-man or Iron Fist.... or Taskmaster? When
> > has he ever _not_ displayed that level of skill,
> > from his very first introduction?
>
> And this argument is akin to saying that Aunt May has
> never _not_ displayed the level of skill to take on
> Doctor Doom, since we've never seen her _not_ do it.
> Negative proof isn't a useful argument here.
I'm not asking for negative proof, really I'm not. I'm asking you to
set Deadpool at some point along a scale.
When you read the Deadpool-Taskmaster fight, you thought, "This guy
shouldn't be able to beat Taskmaster." What made you think that?
Had you read a previous comic where Deadpool got his ass kicked by
Daredevil? Did you remember reading a comic where a common street
mugger took 'Pool down? What?
I'm asking you, basically, what Deadpool appearances you read that led
you to set him at the "better than generic ninja, worse than Iron Fist"
level.
> > Why not a first? Throwing someone off-balance in a fight
> > is a perfectly legitimate tactic, if you can pull it off.
>
> Oh, it's a legitimate tactic, if, as you say, you can pull
> it off. But aside from a cheap joke, nothing we know of
> either Taskmaster or Deadpool makes that event a
> believable one.
All right. Once more. Every Deadpool appearance I've ever read has him
being _that good_. Wade through an army of ninjas? No problem. Beat
up three members of the Frightful Four simultaneously? No problem.
If you can direct me to the comic where Deadpool has trouble fighting
someone that Taskmaster could take down in his sleep, I would much
appreciate it.
Bala Menon
news:070120010548581279%blak...@best.outdamnspam.com...
> In article <937jpp$94p8l$1...@ID-40971.news.dfncis.de>, Bala Menon
> <b.m...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> > > (it will end at issue #80 but all issues are or will be
> > > reprinted in trad paperback format) that is well WRITTEN.
> >
> > As I mentioned in the section of my post that you snipped,
> > Robinson may do his own characters well (I like LEAVE IT
> > TO CHANCE) but he's not particularly good at playing in
> > a shared universe.
>
> Jack Knight is Robinson's own character. 8)
The Jack Knight bits may be good; it's when he interacts
with any other non-Robinson character that I don't like :-)
I did like Starman #1,000,000, though.
(Of course, Jack wasn't there ... :-))
> > > Robinson writes other characters VERY well.
> >
> > Good Lord. No. This I definitely disagree with.
> > All characters other than Robinson's own suffer an IQ drop
> > of 50 points when they appear in one of his titles. Take a
> > look at the JLE massacre issue, where the JLE'ers fall
> > over themselves in an attempt to commit suicide at the
> > hands of the Mist. Or far, far better, check out the Girlfrenzy
> > issue of the Mist, where a girl with the Wisdom of Solomon
> > suddenly displays the brains of Solomon Grundy, and begs
> > the Mist not to fire a pistol at a person across the room.
> > This, from a girl, who besides that aforementioned Wisdom
> > of Solomon, also possesses the Speed of Mercury (not to
> > mention Invulnerability).
>
> This isn't an absolute rule. It should be rather, 'All characters
> other than Robinson's own suffer an IQ drop of 50 points
> when they appear in one of his titles and battle the Mist.'
>
> He does have an aggravating tendency to have other
> characters show up and tell Jack how cool he is, though.
Only the Mist, huh ? Possible ... it's been a long time since
I read those issues, and I haven't bothered going back.
But if Jack also suffers from Rayner-itis (I hadn't noticed),
it's still the same scenario: lazy writing. He's not showing
us how good Jack is, just having others tell us that.
> > Or (so I'm told) Ted Knight's death, when the Mist tries to shoot
> > Ted with a pistol, rather than commit suicide and trigger a nuke.
>
> Not true.
Eminently possible, which is why I tossed in that disclaimer;
I stopped reading the thing somewhere around #30. A friend
mentioned the above scenario to me, but I haven't read it yet.
So what exactly was the final death scene of Ted Knight and
the Mist ? Wasn't there a bomb scheduled to go off when
the Mist died ?
--
Bala Menon (b.m...@worldnet.att.net)
KurtBusiek
flippant.
Double flippancy. >>
Sorry, but you can't do that. Double flippancy is against the statutes.
Not to mention being when the flippancy scores can _really_ change, of
course...
kurt
Bala Menon
> Bala Menon wrote:
> > Matthew Campbell <ieng...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> > news:3A580A72...@earthlink.net...
> > > Bala Menon wrote:
> > > > Taskmaster is a _lot_ better than that. And he's gone
> > > > up against folk a lot better than Deadpool. Even
> > > > Spiderman has a rough time with him, and Spidey's
> > > > much better than 'Pool. Taskmaster's defeat has to
> > > > be a lot more convincing for me to accept it; this one
> > > > didn't even make an attempt.
> > >
> > > Is Spider-Man "a lot better than 'Pool"? I'm not so sure.
> >
> > Yeesh. This is really stretching it. Spidey's a lot
> > faster, stronger, much more agile, and has trained by
> > going up against rougher competition than 'Pool ever has.
> >
> > > Deadpool is a guy who debuted kicking around teams of
> > > X-Men. He's tossed around Wolverine. He's held his own
> > > (for a little while) against a team of Avengers.
> >
> > And Spiderman's knocked out and defeated a Herald of
> > Galactus in single combat.
>
> In what is widely regarded as one of the most unrealistic
> outcomes of any fight in any Spider-man comic ever.
> (Spidey just isn't strong enough to knock Firelord out.)
How about strong enough to shatter Iron Man 2020's armour ?
Seriously, you're arguing about Spidey and a Herald of
Galactus ... are you arguing that Deadpool comes anywhere
close to this zone ?!
> > This still doesn't come close to explaining 'Pool
> > defeating Taskmaster in hand-to-hand combat.
> >
> > > I'd say that 'Pool really _is_ that good.
> >
> > I'd say we've never seen evidence to that effect.
>
> Yes we have. He's fought Wolverine and dominated the
> fight,
Never seen this fight, so I can't use it to compare
anything.
> he's pushed Kingpin to a standstill, he kicked Captain
> America in the nuts,
I'm not gonna argue the skill level the last takes :-)
But none of the above convinces me that 'Pool is
anywhere close to Iron Fist class.
> and well.... he beat Taskmaster, didn't he?
Sure. By a cheap shot which was fairly unbelievable.
Which is what I've been saying all along.
Doesn't make any more sense than a scenario where
Aunt May clobbers Thor. Good for a gag, but not
believable.
> > > Captain America or Iron Fist level, easily.
> >
> > Deadpool ?! Nowhere close.
>
> What makes you say that?
'Cause I place three others at Iron Fist level:
Shang Chi, Shen Kuei and Daredevil. Hmm ...
Elektra should fall in that level too. 'Pool's never
displayed any skills at that level. Taskmaster
comes pretty close to the above because he copies
Iron Fist's skills.
> > > Let's turn it around. What examples do you have
> > > of Deadpool _not_ being a guy who can take on
> > > Spider-man or Iron Fist.... or Taskmaster? When
> > > has he ever _not_ displayed that level of skill,
> > > from his very first introduction?
> >
> > And this argument is akin to saying that Aunt May has
> > never _not_ displayed the level of skill to take on
> > Doctor Doom, since we've never seen her _not_ do it.
> > Negative proof isn't a useful argument here.
>
> I'm not asking for negative proof, really I'm not.
> I'm asking you to set Deadpool at some point along a scale.
Would the above satisfy you ?
> When you read the Deadpool-Taskmaster fight, you thought,
> "This guy shouldn't be able to beat Taskmaster."
> What made you think that?
No. That's not what I thought. Bear in mind this was #2
of Deadpool, and aside from some cursory appearance in
the X-titles, I hadn't all that much knowledge of Deadpool
per se at the time.
What I did know at the time was that the Taskmaster was
an extremely capable villain, who'd fought Spiderman and
the Avengers, and had trained the new Spymaster, a guy
who gave Iron Man a hard time. I knew the Taskmaster's
skills. We also saw the Taskmaster copying Deadpool's
own moves, and calling them rudimentary; nothing about
that showed Deadpool to be in Iron Fist class.
What I saw was the Taskmaster being defeated in a way
that shouldn't be possible outside a cheap joke. Basically,
in an unbelievable manner. Mike Chary's already spelled out
what Taskmaster's reaction _should_ have been, elsewhere
in this thread.
What this leads me to believe is that the writer's taking
the lazy way out, building up his character by tearing
another down, not by taking the effort to do it himself.
And lazy writing is not something I'm interested in
wasting my time on.
If you'd prefer me to state my opinion in a style similar
to your comment above, try "This was a ridiculous and
unbelievable method of defeating Taskmaster."
> Had you read a previous comic where Deadpool got his ass
> kicked by Daredevil? Did you remember reading a comic
> where a common street mugger took 'Pool down? What?
>
> I'm asking you, basically, what Deadpool appearances
> you read that led you to set him at the "better than
> generic ninja, worse than Iron Fist" level.
If the person's _breathing_, I assume he's better than
generic ninja. Beating armies of ninjas these days has
become such a ridiculously everyday skill that heroes
can no longer graduate without it.
It's gotten to the point where the Hand don't dare
go near Queens because of the presence of May Parker.
> If you can direct me to the comic where Deadpool
> has trouble fighting someone that Taskmaster
> could take down in his sleep, I would much
> appreciate it.
Matthew, why do you keep asking for negative proof,
after insisting you don't want it ?
--
Bala Menon (b.m...@worldnet.att.net)
Prestorjon
radioactive spiders, cosmic rays, and gamma bombs are far more contrived
than simply saying, "They were born that way".>>
Individually they're not. Taken collectively they strain credulity. A unified
explanation of powers (mutants, wild card virus, comet effect, the White Event)
tends to make your universe a bit more plausible.
-----------------
He had been our Destroyer, the doer of things
We dreamed of doing but could not bring ourselves to do,
The fears of years, like a biting whip,
Had cut deep bloody grooves
Across our backs.
-Etheridge Knight
Prestorjon
wouldn't have a problem with it. It'd seem like a good idea to me.>>
The creators of the WIld Cards series admitted as much. They wanted to write a
shared world super-hero story but they felt that a dozen different origins
would be too ridiculous so someone came up with the idea of a virus that gave
some of the survivors super powers.
Sean Curtin
> The unstable molecule costumes aren't bulletproof. Just ask Doug
> Ramsey.
However, Forge did make some X-costumes that were bulletproof. He
waited until *after* Fall of the Mutants to invent something that
useful, of course...
...and the X-Men have never worn these bulletproof costumes since then.
I guess their invisibility to electronics cancelled out their
bulletproofing, and vice versa.
Doesn't explain whatever happened to Iceman's belt, though.
Sean Curtin
Sean Curtin
> I know what his powers are, the MUTANT ability to copy any move he
> has ever seen and reproduce it exactly minus any enhanced attribute
Taskmaster has never, to my knowledge, been desribed as a mutant. It's
the most obvious explanation for his abilities, but it's never been
explicitly stated on-panel that he is, in fact, a mutant.
Sean Curtin
KurtBusiek
the most obvious explanation for his abilities, but it's never been
explicitly stated on-panel that he is, in fact, a mutant.>>
I believe he has been, somewhere, though David Michelinie, his co-creator, says
he was never intended to be one -- his abilities are a talent, not a mutation.
kurt
Matt Adler
"KurtBusiek" <kurtb...@aol.comics> wrote in message
news:20010108012023...@ng-fg1.aol.com...
Oh well. Still, if you think about it, the ability to exactly duplicate any
move he sees simply by looking at it, can't conceivably fall within the
realm of simple talent. And since it *has* been stated, by Michelinie I
believe, that his ability is natural, what else could he be but a mutant?
Here's how it could be revealed. TM is hired by the Red Skull to kidnap the
Scarlet Witch, in revenge for Magneto locking him underground. Onboard TM's
ship, en route to the Skull, a trussed-up Scarlet Witch and TM have the
following conversation:
Scarlet Witch: I don't get it. How can you work for a hate-monger like the
Skull, when you are a mutant yourself?
Taskmaster: {whirls around} Wh-whaddaya mean? I'm not a mutant!
SW: Come now. Your abilities hardly fall within the realm of simple talent.
And you yourself have admitted those abilities are natural.
TM: {top of his lungs} Get this straight, Witch. I. Am. Not. A. MUTANT!
{Turns and stalks out of the cabin}
Cut to TM sitting in a chair, thinking to himself: I'm not a mutant. I'm not
a mutant. I'm not a mutant...
Flashback sequence, depicting TM as a child, with his parents.
Father: {reading newspaper} Damn muties! They're at it again! I don't know
why the government doesn't do something about them...
TM: What'd they do Dad?
Father: Tore up the town again, that's what! Now you listen to me boy, I
ever catch you associating with that mutie trash, I will tan your hide, you
hear me?
TM: Y-yes dad.
Father: Good. Now get to football practice.
Mikel Midnight
<b.m...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
SPOILERS for the end of 'Grand Guignol'
> > He does have an aggravating tendency to have other
> > characters show up and tell Jack how cool he is, though.
>
> Only the Mist, huh ? Possible ... it's been a long time since
> I read those issues, and I haven't bothered going back.
> But if Jack also suffers from Rayner-itis (I hadn't noticed),
> it's still the same scenario: lazy writing. He's not showing
> us how good Jack is, just having others tell us that.
It's not *quite* that bad ... Jack actually is competant, but having
all these other characters show up to praise him really is redundant.
> > > Or (so I'm told) Ted Knight's death, when the Mist tries to shoot
> > > Ted with a pistol, rather than commit suicide and trigger a nuke.
> >
> > Not true.
>
> Eminently possible, which is why I tossed in that disclaimer;
> I stopped reading the thing somewhere around #30. A friend
> mentioned the above scenario to me, but I haven't read it yet.
> So what exactly was the final death scene of Ted Knight and
> the Mist ? Wasn't there a bomb scheduled to go off when
> the Mist died ?
Yes, there was. And he was planning on dying soon anyway ... he simply
intended to take the city with him. He had brought a gun with him
earlier, but that was to off some people he wanted to kill personally
just for fun. Ted Knight pre-empted the Mist's suicide/mass-murder by
showing up with a cosmic rod the size of a small car, and levitating
the building the bomb was in into space. When it went off, the only
people it killed were the Mist and Ted.
fan
Matt Adler wrote:
> "KurtBusiek" <kurtb...@aol.comics> wrote in message
> news:20010108012023...@ng-fg1.aol.com...
> > >>Taskmaster has never, to my knowledge, been desribed as a mutant. It's
> > the most obvious explanation for his abilities, but it's never been
> > explicitly stated on-panel that he is, in fact, a mutant.>>
> >
> > I believe he has been, somewhere, though David Michelinie, his co-creator,
> says
> > he was never intended to be one -- his abilities are a talent, not a
> mutation.
>
> Oh well. Still, if you think about it, the ability to exactly duplicate any
> move he sees simply by looking at it, can't conceivably fall within the
> realm of simple talent.
What, are you kidding me? This is a comic-book character
we're talking about here. DC is more my field than Marvel,
but I'm guessing this'll carry over . . .
Think of the Pre-Crisis Lex Luthor. This guy could whip up
a batch of invisibility serum as easily as he could build a few
teleportation devices or invent a working time machine. He
created everything from shrinking rays to mind-control gear
without breaking a sweat, and would routinely escape from
prison by constructing futuristic devices while confined to a
jail cell. ("Ah, a cheap prison radio! Why, I'll be back on
the streets in an hour!") Nor is he alone; plenty of folks in
the funny-books - both Marvel's and DC's - have this level
of technological prowess, no? And yet they're not mutants.
And then there's Val Armorr, an athlete with a tremendous
knowledge of the martial arts. How tremendous, you ask?
Relying solely on his abilities, this (non-mutant) human can
handle a Kryptonian. Silly? Well, yes. But it's par for the
comic-book course.
And, crossing over to Marvel, apparently Captain America
can throw a shield faster than a speeding missile. Granted,
that's just *stupid*, but I trust you can see where I'm going
with this. You should be extremely reluctant to classify an
extraordinary comic-book ability as a superhuman power.
Once you start down that road, every unusually successful
master of disguise, every bullet-catching martial artist, and
every brilliant inventor will suddenly be lumped in with the
X-Men . . .
Robert Carnegie
Matthew Campbell <ieng...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Had you read a previous comic where Deadpool got his ass kicked by
> Daredevil?
You probably don't actually want to hear that in _Contest of Champions 2_
#whatever, Deadpool wins against Daredevil - just - but it kind of
supports your argument.
He kind of cheated to do it, but that's just because he's such a cute
amoral bad-ass funny character.
Robert Carnegie
"Matt Adler" <mad...@ic.sunysb.edu> wrote:
>
> "Robert Carnegie" <rja.ca...@mailexcite.com> wrote:
[Alan Travis wrote:]
> > > In the first book I checked, he mentions thinking that
> > > the Marvel U was becoming populated with gamma radiation
> > > accidents, spider-bites, and sticks that turned you
> > > into Gods. He thought being born with super powers
> > > would cut down on the number of incredible circumstances
> > > and still allow him to create new heroes and villains.
> >
> > That sounds like what Kurt said: non-mutant crazy origins
> > were just too contrived, unlikely.
>
> Actually, that's what I said.
...
So it is. Excuse me. I hope you're flattered ;-)
(Kurt's AOL account eats attributions, what's your excuse? ;-)
But Kurt did say it too, but with different words. And
ploysl...posyilli...longer ones.
Anyway, I agree. Does anyone not agree? Then are we done here?
Matt Adler
"fan" <I'mn...@thisaddress.com> wrote:
> You should be extremely reluctant to classify an
> extraordinary comic-book ability as a superhuman power.
> Once you start down that road, every unusually successful
> master of disguise, every bullet-catching martial artist, and
> every brilliant inventor will suddenly be lumped in with the
> X-Men . . .
I am very reluctant. However, Taskmaster's ability is clearly defined as
being able to do any (non-superhuman) move he sees *just by looking at it*.
There is no way this can be considered within the realm of human ability,
even factoring in suspension of disbelief. I do understand that you
disagree, though.
Matthew Campbell
> > If you can direct me to the comic where Deadpool
> > has trouble fighting someone that Taskmaster
> > could take down in his sleep, I would much
> > appreciate it.
>
> Matthew, why do you keep asking for negative proof,
> after insisting you don't want it ?
It's not negative proof. It's positive proof. Negative proof would be
if Deadpool had never fought anyone and I asked you to prove he was
incapable of taking down Galactus. And you couldn't, because there were
no panels of Galactus or anyone weaker than Galactus kicking his ass.
But Deadpool has fought lots of people. He's won some fights, he's lost
a few others. It shouldn't be hard, really, to figure out how good he
is in comparison with the rest of the Marvel Universe. You just look at
who he has beaten and who he couldn't beat, and compare. Unless you're
saying it's _impossible_ to rank characters even roughly.
From my comics reading, Deadpool is one of the top fighters/martial
artists/killers in the Marvel Universe, and it's well within the range
of possibility for him to win against Taskmaster.
'Kay?
Billy Bissette
says...
> being able to do any (non-superhuman) move he sees *just by looking at it*.
> There is no way this can be considered within the realm of human ability,
> even factoring in suspension of disbelief. I do understand that you
> disagree, though.
Except that there are real world prodigies who can do similar in
at least limited fields, would you classify them as mutants?
People who can hear a piano song once and immediately play it.
People who can see some physical move performed once and mimic
it (not referring to piano playing here). Etc...
There is real world precedent for Taskmaster's ability to be skill
and not some mutation. Mutation would be required to mimic the
superhuman moves, but regular human while special definately needs
not be a mutation.
If you make Taskmaster a mutant, you might as well make Iron Fist
a mutant. After all, he can break wood and tile with his bare
hands, something which would hurt the average human who tried.
Peter Parker might as well be a mutant for his intelligence well
before he became an 'honorary mutant' for the whole spider
incident. Or back to real world, Jackie Chan or Mick Foley might
as well be mutants for their abilities to recover from damage
(particularly Mick Foley).
Matt Adler
"Billy Bissette" <bai...@coastalnet.com> wrote:
> People who can see some physical move performed once and mimic
> it (not referring to piano playing here).
Granted there are some people who can pick up physical moves very quickly,
but I've never heard of anyone who can automatically do any physical move
just by seeing it *once*. This is just not humanly possible.
Prestorjon
says
he was never intended to be one -- his abilities are a talent, not a
mutation.>>
I seem to recall Marvel Universe describing him as such. I know I certainly
always considered him a mutant but sort of like the Scarlet Witch in that he
wasn't part of the X-universe.
Billy Bissette
says...
Well, I was speaking to a limited set of moves, not just anything seen
once. Taskmaster can only mimic fighting related moves, can he not?
Then when you consider it is still a comic book universe, where even
'normal human' can be more exceptional that the best the real world
can offer... Various fighters in particular.
I see the whole mutant craze as a cop-out that degrades the whole
'superhero' universe. Yes, different origins were starting to go
all over the place (alien here, meteor here, goo here, etc), but it
still shouldn't rule out the simple exceptional human.
Besides, the worst inflation of 'super' heroes and villians were
mutants anyway. For a time it felt like a week couldn't pass without
15 new mutants being introduced, either in a new book, as a villian,
or as just background. Then the mutant explanation started creeping
into existing characters who had solid (for a comic book) origins
already. With a world of super tech, aliens, gods, and geniuses,
you don't *need* everyone to be a mutant for an explanation. Being
a mutant pretty much kills the whole origin bit to me, and in the
long run probably weakens the character as well.