Ghost Rider: New Series?
That JonoGuy
run as penciler on that book and would like to see him come back to
revive the book. maybe with the same writer. or maybe a new writer.
What are your thoughts?
That JonoGuy
Dave Rose
Rider.
Dave
That JonoGuy <jon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:37615A85...@hotmail.com...
Dave Rose
Dave
Grimbiskit <grimb...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990611224721...@ng-bh1.aol.com...
> I liked pop's marvel fanfare work, but didnt think he fit Ghost Rider. His
> flash stuff was bad...changed his style.....no like.
SLWalsh
>
> I REALLY would like to see a new Ghost Rider series. I LIKED Pop Mhans
> run as penciler on that book and would like to see him come back to
> revive the book. maybe with the same writer. or maybe a new writer.
> What are your thoughts?
>
> That JonoGuy
You are evil.
Sorry, but anyone who liked Pop Mhan's art on that book (which
moreorless drove most of the fans away and helped destroy the title) can
be nothing but evil.
Nothing personal... :P
--
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***
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Grimbiskit
Jacob Gilbert
finish the last one, as issue 94 was never published. No reason was
ever given for this problem.
J. C. Gilbert
P.S.: Pop Mhan sucked dogs on GR. Only a Liefeld mark would like this
clown.
-**** Posted from RemarQ, http://www.remarq.com/?a ****-
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James Hunt
Jacob Gilbert wrote in message ...
>Before Marvel can start another Ghost Rider series, they have to
>finish the last one, as issue 94 was never published. No reason was
>ever given for this problem.
>
They could even add extra material which would serve as a springboard to
launch the character's Marvel Knights series...
James Hunt aka Urthworm<~~Misses Ghost Rider.
http://www.anti-matter.clara.net
That JonoGuy
SLWalsh wrote:
> That JonoGuy wrote:
> >
> > I REALLY would like to see a new Ghost Rider series. I LIKED Pop Mhans
> > run as penciler on that book and would like to see him come back to
> > revive the book. maybe with the same writer. or maybe a new writer.
> > What are your thoughts?
> >
> > That JonoGuy
>
> You are evil.
>
You are Stupid
>
> Sorry, but anyone who liked Pop Mhan's art on that book (which
> moreorless drove most of the fans away and helped destroy the title) can
> be nothing but evil.
>
Sorry, but anyone who can't respect another opinion is Stupid.
>
> Nothing personal... :P
Nothing personal.... :P
>
> --
> Check out the New Gods Library at its NEW site:
> http://members.tripod.com/fastbak/
> ***
> And go to my main page at:
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/7637/index.html
> ***
That JonoGuy
Todd VerBeek
> I REALLY would like to see a new Ghost Rider series. I LIKED Pop Mhans
>run as penciler on that book and would like to see him come back to
>revive the book. maybe with the same writer. or maybe a new writer.
>What are your thoughts?
I think it ain't gonna happen.
Pop Mhan's run as penciler saw sales on the series drop dramatically, to
the point of no return (and cancellation). Whether he was really the
reason for that decline or not (and a lot of people feel he was), he's an
obvious suspect. And the ultimate question someone would have to answer
to Marvel Editorial's satisfaction is: why would this succeed now, when it
didn't before?
Cheers, Todd
Andrew Krepela
That JonoGuy <jon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I REALLY would like to see a new Ghost Rider series. I LIKED Pop Mhans
>run as penciler on that book and would like to see him come back to
>revive the book. maybe with the same writer. or maybe a new writer.
>What are your thoughts?
new one would be commercial suicide. Sales during his stint as penciller
plummeted by more than half. By the time they decided to retrn to the
books original penciller it was too late, low sales had killed it. Sales
were so low that the final issue was completed but never printed.
I would love to see a new GHOST RIDER book... but with Johnny Blaze
and with a good horror writer and artist.
--
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
@@ Andrew Krepela / Icebreaker @ Brain Damage Studios (BDS) 1999 @@
@@ Visit the strange world of BDS : http://www.eskimo.com/~icebrkr @@
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
Paul O'Brien
>>Before Marvel can start another Ghost Rider series, they have to
>>finish the last one, as issue 94 was never published. No reason was
>>ever given for this problem.
A reason was given. Orders on issue #94 were so catastrophically
low that it would have been totally uneconomical to publish it.
Basically, so few people were still reading the book that Marvel
couldn't afford to print it.
Paul O'Brien
pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk
I love living somewhere that hates Pat Robertson.
Auriga42
> Pop Mhans pecilling is what killed sales on the book. To have him draw a
>new one would be commercial suicide. Sales during his stint as penciller
>plummeted by more than half. By the time they decided to retrn to the
>books original penciller it was too late, low sales had killed it. Sales
>were so low that the final issue was completed but never printed.
>
> I would love to see a new GHOST RIDER book... but with Johnny Blaze
>and with a good horror writer and artist.
>--
I started picking up _Ghost Rider_ for a bit when Ivan Velez took over--I was a
fan of _Blood Syndicate_--and found it a welcome change from Howard Mackie
(understand, I was a fan of the previous series as a kid). I only stopped
picking it up because I had to trim my comics budget a bit at the time.
But if what Pop Mhan did to _The Flash_ is any indication, I bailed just in
time, then.
At any rate, would anyone else kill to see Warren Ellis try his hand at it? (A
shame Marvel lost its nerve and sacked his _Satana_ series. What might have
been...) Not that he WOULD try it, but oh, the possibilities...
Eric crow
> I would love to see a new GHOST RIDER book... but with Johnny Blaze
Thats definity what I want too, Johnny Blaze rules as ghost rider, hell the
dude actually beat Doc Doom and the Hulk and still can't keep a book.
SLWalsh
>
>
> At any rate, would anyone else kill to see Warren Ellis try his hand at it? (A
> shame Marvel lost its nerve and sacked his _Satana_ series. What might have
> been...) Not that he WOULD try it, but oh, the possibilities...
I'd sure as hell would like to see it. I'm not sure he'd try his hand at
it, but seeing how Marvel's screwed him in the past, I doubt he'd make
the attempt to try it...
Dazz Knowles
Marvel Knights imprint. However, the book would need an excellent creative
team to get the most out of the character. I read GR for about twenty issues
(50-70) and most of these were only single issue stories that culminated in
some bad guy receiving a penance stare for his crimes and Dan Ketch moaning
about how much being GR was ruining his life. There was hardly any descent
supporting characters or sub-plots, so it was hardly surprising that the
book got cancelled, crap artist or no crap artist, it wouldn't have lasted
long. If Marvel did a GR series that in the same style as their Marvel
Knights they would definitely be onto a winner, especially considering that
a number of other knights characters such as The punisher and Doctor Strange
could appear in the book and not look out of place.
I would also like to see Typhoid Mary introduced into the knights range as
this is another character which oozes untapped potential. Maybe Marvel could
release a four-issue mini-series for each of these characters and decide on
whether or not to do an ongoing series.
Dazz.
Buildings burn. People die. But true love is forever.
"The Crow"
That JonoGuy <jon...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:37615A85...@hotmail.com...
> I REALLY would like to see a new Ghost Rider series. I LIKED Pop Mhans
> run as penciler on that book and would like to see him come back to
> revive the book. maybe with the same writer. or maybe a new writer.
> What are your thoughts?
>
> That JonoGuy
>
SLWalsh
>
> I to would like to see Ghost Rider return. He would fit nicely into the
> Marvel Knights imprint. However, the book would need an excellent creative
> team to get the most out of the character. I read GR for about twenty issues
> (50-70) and most of these were only single issue stories that culminated in
> some bad guy receiving a penance stare for his crimes and Dan Ketch moaning
> about how much being GR was ruining his life. There was hardly any descent
> supporting characters or sub-plots, so it was hardly surprising that the
> book got cancelled, crap artist or no crap artist, it wouldn't have lasted
> long. If Marvel did a GR series that in the same style as their Marvel
> Knights they would definitely be onto a winner, especially considering that
> a number of other knights characters such as The punisher and Doctor Strange
> could appear in the book and not look out of place.
Quite true. For some reason, I'd love to see Quesada art on this Marvel
Knights book (which won't be happening...his art on GR, not the GR book,
which is still an unknown...)
> I would also like to see Typhoid Mary introduced into the knights range as
> this is another character which oozes untapped potential. Maybe Marvel could
> release a four-issue mini-series for each of these characters and decide on
> whether or not to do an ongoing series.
She had a rather dark mini a few years back (by Ann Nocenti and John
VanFleet, I believe) which I've heard virtually nothing about...
Ack
>Quite true. For some reason, I'd love to see Quesada art on this Marvel
>Knights book (which won't be happening...his art on GR, not the GR book,
>which is still an unknown...)
Will an old GR cover tide you over? :)
He did the cover art for an issue waaaaay back when. I forget the exact number
but it was around #20 or so I think. It's all white with GR kind of crumpled
with a big ole bar going through his skull.
~Ken
_0_
I
xero
> I REALLY would like to see a new Ghost Rider series. I LIKED Pop Mhans
>run as penciler on that book and would like to see him come back to
>revive the book. maybe with the same writer. or maybe a new writer.
>What are your thoughts?
>That JonoGuy
In my opinion Mark Texeria was the only decent artist they had on the
book. After issue #25, the writing plummeted and never did really pick
back up until around the Midnight Sons storyarc, then that went to
hell (no pun intended). Bringing back John Blaze was the best thing
that ever happened to GR. Vengance was a joke: overdrawn and
overplayed. Blackout was a great villain. As to a new GR book, they'd
have to get some damn talented writers to create a *new* Ghost Rider,
a new Spirit of Vengance to take over a new host.
Me
Give a man a fish and he eats for a day,
Give a man some Phish and he grooves for a lifetime...
Peter Likidis
interest in the character I hated Pop Mahn's art work. He looked like a
6 year old with crayons in all the promo work I saw.
That JonoGuy wrote:
>
> I REALLY would like to see a new Ghost Rider series. I LIKED Pop Mhans
> run as penciler on that book and would like to see him come back to
> revive the book. maybe with the same writer. or maybe a new writer.
> What are your thoughts?
>
> That JonoGuy
--
Peter Likidis
centu...@iname.com
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"Don't underestimate the power of stupidity in large groups!"
Peter Likidis
it.. this was the reason
James Hunt wrote:
>
> Jacob Gilbert wrote in message ...
> >Before Marvel can start another Ghost Rider series, they have to
> >finish the last one, as issue 94 was never published. No reason was
> >ever given for this problem.
> >
> Couldn't they at least release it as one-shot which wraps up the series?
> They could even add extra material which would serve as a springboard to
> launch the character's Marvel Knights series...
cgri...@my-deja.com
That JonoGuy <jon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I REALLY would like to see a new Ghost Rider series. I LIKED Pop
Mhans
> run as penciler on that book and would like to see him come back to
> revive the book. maybe with the same writer. or maybe a new writer.
> What are your thoughts?
Well, I don't think you're evil, but I question your taste. Pop Mhan
seriously needs to take some life drawing courses. There's bad anatomy
and then there's Pop Mhan.
Despite our different artistic likes, I'd like to see Ghost Rider back
if they could recapture the fun of the last series when Mark Texeira was
drawing the book.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
That JonoGuy
> Well, I don't think you're evil, but I question your taste.
WHAT? why should YOU question my tastes in the FIRST place. my tastes
are my tastes. even IF they don't fit with yours.
> Pop Mhan
> seriously needs to take some life drawing courses. There's bad anatomy
> and then there's Pop Mhan.
>
Whose to say he HASN'T. Comics AREN"T meant to be a reflection of
reality. most comics that is. MOSTLY comics are an ESCAPE from reality,
and with that anything is possible.
>
> Despite our different artistic likes, I'd like to see Ghost Rider back
> if they could recapture the fun of the last series when Mark Texeira was
> drawing the book.
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
That JonoGuy: JMHO!
That JonoGuy
Todd VerBeek wrote:
> >> Well, I don't think you're evil, but I question your taste.
>
> My pal That JonoGuy said:
> > WHAT? why should YOU question my tastes in the FIRST place. my tastes
> >are my tastes. even IF they don't fit with yours.
>
> That's true. And if you're happy with your tastes, that's great for you.
>
> But if someone thinks Lite beer, McDonald's fries, New Kids On The Block
> recordings, or episodes of "Saved By the Bell" are really great, then I
> too reserve the right to question whether their tastes are a bit peculiar.
NO one deserves the right to QUESTION anothers tastes. you have a right ot
HAVE your OWN, but not to question others. that makes NO sense what so ever
to me. you may not AGREE with them, but it is by no means OKAY to say that
they may be wrong. cause that is what it sounded like what you posted.
>
>
> >> Pop Mhan
> >> seriously needs to take some life drawing courses. There's bad anatomy
> >> and then there's Pop Mhan.
>
> > Whose to say he HASN'T.
>
> I am. At least he hasn't taken any life drawing courses comparable to the
> ones =I= have. None of my classmates would have been =able= to draw like
> Mhan does after passing one of the classes I've taken. He does OK with
> 1-point perspective; I'll grant him that, but it's obvious he's using a
> straight-edge for it, and his figures look misshapen.
>
And WHOSE to say that his aim WAS to draw realistically? apparantly that
was not his intention. do you also not like cartoons cause they are nto
realistic enough?
>
> >Comics AREN"T meant to be a reflection of
> >reality. most comics that is. MOSTLY comics are an ESCAPE from reality,
> >and with that anything is possible.
>
> Maybe. But even with "escapist" stories, some connection to reality is
> helpful. Having people that don't look like people makes that kinda
> difficult.
>
> I'm told that one of the great abstract painters used to insist that no
> one should paint abstract art until they were able to paint a realistic
> rendering of a cow. In other words, you need to know the rules before you
> should try breaking them. I'm not convinced Mhan knows the rules.
>
I am SURE he DOES know the rules. he is a graphic designer i believe.
>
> "It's not supposed to be realistic" is kind of like Pee Wee Herman saying
> "I meant to do that" when he falls off his bike.
>
> Cheers, Todd
> --
> in fond memory of DeForest Kelley (1920-1999) "I'm dead, Jim."
That JonoGuy
Todd VerBeek
My pal That JonoGuy said:
> WHAT? why should YOU question my tastes in the FIRST place. my tastes
>are my tastes. even IF they don't fit with yours.
That's true. And if you're happy with your tastes, that's great for you.
But if someone thinks Lite beer, McDonald's fries, New Kids On The Block
recordings, or episodes of "Saved By the Bell" are really great, then I
too reserve the right to question whether their tastes are a bit peculiar.
>> Pop Mhan
>> seriously needs to take some life drawing courses. There's bad anatomy
>> and then there's Pop Mhan.
> Whose to say he HASN'T.
I am. At least he hasn't taken any life drawing courses comparable to the
ones =I= have. None of my classmates would have been =able= to draw like
Mhan does after passing one of the classes I've taken. He does OK with
1-point perspective; I'll grant him that, but it's obvious he's using a
straight-edge for it, and his figures look misshapen.
>Comics AREN"T meant to be a reflection of
>reality. most comics that is. MOSTLY comics are an ESCAPE from reality,
>and with that anything is possible.
Maybe. But even with "escapist" stories, some connection to reality is
helpful. Having people that don't look like people makes that kinda
difficult.
I'm told that one of the great abstract painters used to insist that no
one should paint abstract art until they were able to paint a realistic
rendering of a cow. In other words, you need to know the rules before you
should try breaking them. I'm not convinced Mhan knows the rules.
"It's not supposed to be realistic" is kind of like Pee Wee Herman saying
David J. Snyder
Todd VerBeek <ver...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>But if someone thinks Lite beer, McDonald's fries, New Kids On The Block
>recordings, or episodes of "Saved By the Bell" are really great, then I
>too reserve the right to question whether their tastes are a bit peculiar.
Are we talking Classic Saved By The Bell, or the New Class?
-Dave
Grimbiskit
drew on flash, he might have a neat style
Auriga42
>> seriously needs to take some life drawing courses. There's bad anatomy
>> and then there's Pop Mhan.
>>
>
>reality. most comics that is. MOSTLY comics are an ESCAPE from reality,
>and with that anything is possible.
>
Not a reflection of reality?
So if an artist chooses to draw all his human characters with six fingers, no
noses, heads the size of a cherry, and three legs, and declare himself
"revolutionary", this is okay with you?
Maybe this is an exaggeration. Maybe Mhan's work doesn't take THAT many
liberties with the human body. But there's such a thing as consistent
proportion. Manga artists and Disney animators may not draw painstakingly
rendered photo-realistic works of art, but at least they know the importance of
proportion and consistency, which Mhan's work sorely lacks.
If Mhan prefers a faux-Picasso style, fine. If you prefer his faux-Picasso
style, fine. That's your right. Obviously that's your right, and that's cool.
But labelling his faux-Picasso style "escapism" is just plain wrong.
Randy
SLWalsh
>
> Todd VerBeek wrote:
>
> > >> Well, I don't think you're evil, but I question your taste.
> >
> > My pal That JonoGuy said:
> > > WHAT? why should YOU question my tastes in the FIRST place. my tastes
> > >are my tastes. even IF they don't fit with yours.
> >
> > That's true. And if you're happy with your tastes, that's great for you.
> >
> > recordings, or episodes of "Saved By the Bell" are really great, then I
> > too reserve the right to question whether their tastes are a bit peculiar.
>
> HAVE your OWN, but not to question others. that makes NO sense what so ever
> to me. you may not AGREE with them, but it is by no means OKAY to say that
> they may be wrong. cause that is what it sounded like what you posted.
Wait wait...I thought Todd was *questioning* your tastes, not saying
they may be wrong. Thems are two different things; that's the way I see
it at least... Please make up your mind.
> > >> Pop Mhan
> > >> seriously needs to take some life drawing courses. There's bad anatomy
> > >> and then there's Pop Mhan.
> >
> > > Whose to say he HASN'T.
> >
> > I am. At least he hasn't taken any life drawing courses comparable to the
> > ones =I= have. None of my classmates would have been =able= to draw like
> > Mhan does after passing one of the classes I've taken. He does OK with
> > 1-point perspective; I'll grant him that, but it's obvious he's using a
> > straight-edge for it, and his figures look misshapen.
> >
>
> And WHOSE to say that his aim WAS to draw realistically? apparantly that
> was not his intention. do you also not like cartoons cause they are nto
> realistic enough?
All I can say about Pop Mhan's art is this: I know what I likes, and I
don't likes that crap. And I like cartoons, mostly because they are
realistic. But I don't really like cartoons that don't look
well-drawn...
Todd VerBeek
>> My pal That JonoGuy said:
>> > WHAT? why should YOU question my tastes in the FIRST place. my tastes
>> >are my tastes. even IF they don't fit with yours.
>Todd VerBeek wrote:
>> That's true. And if you're happy with your tastes, that's great for you.
>> But if someone thinks Lite beer, McDonald's fries, New Kids On The Block
>> recordings, or episodes of "Saved By the Bell" are really great, then I
>> too reserve the right to question whether their tastes are a bit peculiar.
My pal That JonoGuy said:
> NO one deserves the right to QUESTION anothers tastes. you have a right ot
>HAVE your OWN, but not to question others. that makes NO sense what so ever
>to me. you may not AGREE with them, but it is by no means OKAY to say that
>they may be wrong. cause that is what it sounded like what you posted.
Not "wrong", just "peculiar". (KIND of like the way you TYPE like a comic
book superhero TALKS. {smile})
>> >> Pop Mhan
>> >> seriously needs to take some life drawing courses. There's bad anatomy
>> >> and then there's Pop Mhan.
>> > Whose to say he HASN'T.
>> I am. At least he hasn't taken any life drawing courses comparable to the
>> ones =I= have. None of my classmates would have been =able= to draw like
>> Mhan does after passing one of the classes I've taken. He does OK with
>> 1-point perspective; I'll grant him that, but it's obvious he's using a
>> straight-edge for it, and his figures look misshapen.
> And WHOSE to say that his aim WAS to draw realistically? apparantly that
>was not his intention. do you also not like cartoons cause they are nto
>realistic enough?
Of course not, not when they're drawn =well=. I have truckloads of
respect for folks who can draw cartoons. (This is in part because I
=can't=; I can do nonrepresentational and I can do realistic, but
successful cartooning eludes me.) It takes a great deal of skill (maybe
instinct, maybe learned) to do cartooning well. Mhan isn't doing that.
(Aside: Please take a minute to note the difference between "who's"
[who is] and "whose" [belonging to whom]; you've used the wrong one twice
so far. It distracts from your point when the reader has to stop halfway
through your sentence and reread it substituting the other word, to figure
out what you meant. Unless you're =trying= to appear only semi-literate.)
>> >Comics AREN"T meant to be a reflection of
>> >reality. most comics that is. MOSTLY comics are an ESCAPE from reality,
>> >and with that anything is possible.
>> Maybe. But even with "escapist" stories, some connection to reality is
>> helpful. Having people that don't look like people makes that kinda
>> difficult.
>> I'm told that one of the great abstract painters used to insist that no
>> one should paint abstract art until they were able to paint a realistic
>> rendering of a cow. In other words, you need to know the rules before you
>> should try breaking them. I'm not convinced Mhan knows the rules.
> I am SURE he DOES know the rules.
But =how= are you sure? Have you seen evidence of this? Or is this just
the faithful assertion of a fawning fan?
And one point I forgot to mention before is that an artist should break
the rules - and yes, they really =should= break them - but do so
deliberately. That is, they should break the rules for a reason.
(So is Mhan trying to make a statement about all of humanity being ugly or
something?)
>he is a graphic designer i believe.
Not the same thing. There are a lot of common factors between the two,
they are very different fields of art. I'm taking both Graphic Design and
Illustration classes (I'm nearly a junior and I haven't picked a major
yet; the Registrar hates me). My Ill. classmates deride G.D. students as
people who can't draw, and my G.D. classmates scoff at the inability of
Illustrators to put together a decent ad layout. I do see some good
graphic design in Mhan's pages, but his figure drawing is simply Not Very
Good. If he's as talented at it as you assume he must be, maybe he should
try realism.
Cheers, Todd ("jack" of both trades... working at moving up to "queen")
That JonoGuy
SLWalsh wrote:
> That JonoGuy wrote:
> >
> > Todd VerBeek wrote:
> >
> > > >> Well, I don't think you're evil, but I question your taste.
> > >
> > > My pal That JonoGuy said:
> > > > WHAT? why should YOU question my tastes in the FIRST place. my tastes
> > > >are my tastes. even IF they don't fit with yours.
> > >
> > > That's true. And if you're happy with your tastes, that's great for you.
> > >
> > > But if someone thinks Lite beer, McDonald's fries, New Kids On The Block
> > > recordings, or episodes of "Saved By the Bell" are really great, then I
> > > too reserve the right to question whether their tastes are a bit peculiar.
> >
> > NO one deserves the right to QUESTION anothers tastes. you have a right ot
> > HAVE your OWN, but not to question others. that makes NO sense what so ever
> > to me. you may not AGREE with them, but it is by no means OKAY to say that
> > they may be wrong. cause that is what it sounded like what you posted.
>
> Wait wait...I thought Todd was *questioning* your tastes, not saying
> they may be wrong. Thems are two different things; that's the way I see
> it at least... Please make up your mind.
>
Questioning my tastes is like saying that they are wrong because they are not up
to his standards. or basically, that he has different tastes than i and since mine
are different he questions them. which seems to not make any sense to me.
>
> > > >> Pop Mhan
> > > >> seriously needs to take some life drawing courses. There's bad anatomy
> > > >> and then there's Pop Mhan.
> > >
> > > > Whose to say he HASN'T.
> > >
> > > I am. At least he hasn't taken any life drawing courses comparable to the
> > > ones =I= have. None of my classmates would have been =able= to draw like
> > > Mhan does after passing one of the classes I've taken. He does OK with
> > > 1-point perspective; I'll grant him that, but it's obvious he's using a
> > > straight-edge for it, and his figures look misshapen.
> > >
> >
> > And WHOSE to say that his aim WAS to draw realistically? apparantly that
> > was not his intention. do you also not like cartoons cause they are nto
> > realistic enough?
>
> All I can say about Pop Mhan's art is this: I know what I likes, and I
> don't likes that crap. And I like cartoons, mostly because they are
> realistic. But I don't really like cartoons that don't look
> well-drawn...
>
Okay. i see. you don't like his art.
>
> --
> Check out the New Gods Library at its NEW site:
> http://members.tripod.com/fastbak/
> ***
> And go to my main page at:
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Dunes/7637/index.html
> ***
That JonoGuy
That JonoGuy
Todd VerBeek wrote:
> >> >> Well, I don't think you're evil, but I question your taste.
>
> >> My pal That JonoGuy said:
> >> > WHAT? why should YOU question my tastes in the FIRST place. my tastes
> >> >are my tastes. even IF they don't fit with yours.
>
> >Todd VerBeek wrote:
> >> That's true. And if you're happy with your tastes, that's great for you.
> >> But if someone thinks Lite beer, McDonald's fries, New Kids On The Block
> >> recordings, or episodes of "Saved By the Bell" are really great, then I
> >> too reserve the right to question whether their tastes are a bit peculiar.
>
> My pal That JonoGuy said:
> > NO one deserves the right to QUESTION anothers tastes. you have a right ot
> >HAVE your OWN, but not to question others. that makes NO sense what so ever
> >to me. you may not AGREE with them, but it is by no means OKAY to say that
> >they may be wrong. cause that is what it sounded like what you posted.
>
> Not "wrong", just "peculiar". (KIND of like the way you TYPE like a comic
> book superhero TALKS. {smile})
>
peculiar by your standards. see, there is a difference. what you said is that
your questioning them because they are not similar to your tastes.
>
> >> >> Pop Mhan
> >> >> seriously needs to take some life drawing courses. There's bad anatomy
> >> >> and then there's Pop Mhan.
>
> >> > Whose to say he HASN'T.
>
> >> I am. At least he hasn't taken any life drawing courses comparable to the
> >> ones =I= have. None of my classmates would have been =able= to draw like
> >> Mhan does after passing one of the classes I've taken. He does OK with
> >> 1-point perspective; I'll grant him that, but it's obvious he's using a
> >> straight-edge for it, and his figures look misshapen.
>
> > And WHOSE to say that his aim WAS to draw realistically? apparantly that
> >was not his intention. do you also not like cartoons cause they are nto
> >realistic enough?
>
There is a thing called stylized drawing. where features are overly
exagerrated. this must be what Pop used. why must there be a reason to break
the rules? Other artists break them and for no reason just for the sake of
something different.
>
> >he is a graphic designer i believe.
>
> Not the same thing. There are a lot of common factors between the two,
> they are very different fields of art. I'm taking both Graphic Design and
> Illustration classes (I'm nearly a junior and I haven't picked a major
> yet; the Registrar hates me). My Ill. classmates deride G.D. students as
> people who can't draw, and my G.D. classmates scoff at the inability of
> Illustrators to put together a decent ad layout. I do see some good
> graphic design in Mhan's pages, but his figure drawing is simply Not Very
> Good. If he's as talented at it as you assume he must be, maybe he should
> try realism.
>
Okay i messed up on this part.
>
> Cheers, Todd ("jack" of both trades... working at moving up to "queen")
> --
> in fond memory of DeForest Kelley (1920-1999) "I'm dead, Jim."
That JonoGuy
That JonoGuy
Auriga42 wrote:
> >> Pop Mhan
> >> seriously needs to take some life drawing courses. There's bad anatomy
> >> and then there's Pop Mhan.
> >>
> >
> > Whose to say he HASN'T. Comics AREN"T meant to be a reflection of
> >reality. most comics that is. MOSTLY comics are an ESCAPE from reality,
> >and with that anything is possible.
> >
>
> Not a reflection of reality?
>
> So if an artist chooses to draw all his human characters with six fingers, no
> noses, heads the size of a cherry, and three legs, and declare himself
> "revolutionary", this is okay with you?
>
> Maybe this is an exaggeration. Maybe Mhan's work doesn't take THAT many
> liberties with the human body. But there's such a thing as consistent
> proportion. Manga artists and Disney animators may not draw painstakingly
> rendered photo-realistic works of art, but at least they know the importance of
> proportion and consistency, which Mhan's work sorely lacks.
>
Yes, but what about Stylized drawing. where various parts of the body are overly
exagerrated.
>
> If Mhan prefers a faux-Picasso style, fine. If you prefer his faux-Picasso
> style, fine. That's your right. Obviously that's your right, and that's cool.
>
> But labelling his faux-Picasso style "escapism" is just plain wrong.
>
I did not label his art escapism. i believe that was Todd.
>
> Randy
>
> auri...@aol.com
That JonoGuy
nobody famous
>"It's not supposed to be realistic" is kind of like Pee Wee Herman saying
>"I meant to do that" when he falls off his bike.
>
With permission, I'd like to write this down and quote it whenever someone says
"Hey! It' s not supposed to be realistic!" It's the best summation I've heard
to date. Bravo!
Randy
auri...@aol.com
"Pretty please. With sugar on top. Clean the f---in' car."
nobody famous
>Yes, but what about Stylized drawing. where various parts of the body are
>overly
>exagerrated.
>
I acknowledge stylized art--Howard Cruse's big feet, Sergio Aragones' wide
bodies, manga-style big eyes and even bigger mouths, etc. I'm cool with
stylized art.
Pop Mhan's figures tend to shift proportions from panel to panel. Eyes change
size. Arms and legs extend and shorten like a drunken Mr. Fantastic. Faces
change shape to the extent that, without excessive captioning, characters are
all but recognizable.
That's not stylized. That's sloppiness.
Paul O'Brien
<da...@fnord.io.com> writes
>
>Are we talking Classic Saved By The Bell, or the New Class?
"Classic Saved By The Bell." Now there's a contradiction in terms
for you.
Paul O'Brien
pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk, www.esoterica.demon.co.uk
The KLF's Manual is back in print. Buy it.
Paul O'Brien
<auri...@aol.com> writes
>
>If Mhan prefers a faux-Picasso style, fine.
"Faux-Picasso"? I don't recall Mhan showing a Cubist influence...
That JonoGuy
nobody famous wrote:
Okay, whatever.
That jonoGuy
Todd VerBeek
>> > I am SURE he DOES know the rules.
>Todd VerBeek wrote:
....
>> And one point I forgot to mention before is that an artist should break
>> the rules - and yes, they really =should= break them - but do so
>> deliberately. That is, they should break the rules for a reason.
>> (So is Mhan trying to make a statement about all of humanity being ugly or
>> something?)
My pal That JonoGuy said:
> There is a thing called stylized drawing. where features are overly
>exagerrated. this must be what Pop used.
By your "reasoning", my 5-year-old nephew must be a "stylized" artist,
because he draws people with heads as big as their bodies.
(I think it's because he doesn't know how to draw any better.)
>why must there be a reason to break
>the rules? Other artists break them and for no reason just for the sake of
>something different.
Yes, and the result is generally pretty lame. An artist who breaks rules
"just because" is someone who lacks imagination. I find that boring as
hell, and something of a disgrace to the practise of art.
Cheers, Todd
Todd VerBeek
>>"I meant to do that" when he falls off his bike.
My pal nobody famous said:
>With permission, I'd like to write this down and quote it whenever someone says
>"Hey! It' s not supposed to be realistic!" It's the best summation I've heard
>to date. Bravo!
Be my guest. {smile}
Todd VerBeek
>> If Mhan prefers a faux-Picasso style, fine. If you prefer his faux-Picasso
>> style, fine. That's your right. Obviously that's your right, and that's cool.
>> But labelling his faux-Picasso style "escapism" is just plain wrong.
My pal That JonoGuy said:
>I did not label his art escapism. i believe that was Todd.
{sigh} No, kid, that was you.
In an attempt to excuse Mhan's lack of realistic anatomy you said: "Comics
AREN"T meant to be a reflection of reality. most comics that is. MOSTLY
comics are an ESCAPE from reality, and with that anything is possible."
Cheers, Todd (looking forward to an "okay, whatever" in reply)
That JonoGuy
Todd VerBeek wrote:
Okay, Whatever JERK.
I said comics in GENERAL. i was not referring to his art. and i really didn't want
to discuss the art in these posts, but the line that YOU made." Well, I don't think
you're evil, but I question your taste "
I KNOW you think different;y on his art, and i am fine with that. but that statement
you made was STUPID. and the reason why? well, because by questioning my taste that
would mean that my opinion was wrong and yours was right. but both are correct in
that they are our opinions.
That JonoGuy. leaving it at that.
That JonoGuy
Todd VerBeek wrote:
> >Auriga42 wrote:
> >> If Mhan prefers a faux-Picasso style, fine. If you prefer his faux-Picasso
> >> style, fine. That's your right. Obviously that's your right, and that's cool.
> >> But labelling his faux-Picasso style "escapism" is just plain wrong.
>
> My pal That JonoGuy said:
> >I did not label his art escapism. i believe that was Todd.
>
> {sigh} No, kid, that was you.
>
> In an attempt to excuse Mhan's lack of realistic anatomy you said: "Comics
> AREN"T meant to be a reflection of reality. most comics that is. MOSTLY
> comics are an ESCAPE from reality, and with that anything is possible."
>
> Cheers, Todd (looking forward to an "okay, whatever" in reply)
> --
> in fond memory of DeForest Kelley (1920-1999) "I'm dead, Jim."
er.. sorry about the other reply to thismessage. i was angry. although....SHOULD I
have been? Hmmn? ;o)
That JonoGuy
Peter Likidis
Grimbiskit wrote:
>
> I think if Pop were to mix his clean ghost rider art with the funky figures he
> drew on flash, he might have a neat style
His ghost rider art was clean?
Not that I read it, but to me his promotional pieces looked like a six
year old's drawings.
nobody famous
>That JonoGuy. leaving it at that.
>
Curses! I had been devoting valuable hours of my downtime researching, drawing
up charts, photocopying library books, interviewing comic book store employees,
conducting clandestine quasi-government-sanctioned experiments, and memorizing
numerous biblical passages, all in my quest to prove, once and for all, that
Pop Mhan is actually Mephisto.
NOW what am I supposed to do with all that?
Paper hat party at my house! Woo-hoo!
Grimbiskit
<<Not that I read it, but to me his promotional pieces looked like a six
year old's drawings. >>
Sean Curtin
cgri...@my-deja.com wrote:
> There's bad anatomy and then there's Pop Mhan.
Pop Mhan is to manga as Rob Liefeld is to Jack Kirby.
Sean Curtin
Can't believe I said "Rob Liefeld" and "Jack Kirby" in the same
sentence
Paulo Costa
Sean Curtin <mass...@berkshire.net> escreveu no artigo
<376ACEA1...@berkshire.net>...
I can't believe you've made a comparison with Rob Liefeld and Jack Kirby.
--
Paulo Costa
"What are we doing tomorrow, Brain?" - Pinky
Handbook of Marvel Creators: http://welcome.to/homc
Squadron Supreme: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/4489
christi...@my-deja.com
Do you have any samples of your drawings?
I wish to see them so bad. You are an art
student right? You draw cartoon? comic stuff?
Ever do submission? Do you think you can draw
better than some artists? You do graphic design
too? Can I see your stuff?
Sorry for such a huge list of requests. I
read your message and you just impressed me.
Chirs
In article <37679609...@hotmail.com>,
That JonoGuy <jon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Todd VerBeek wrote:
>
> > >> >> Well, I don't think you're evil, but I
question your taste.
> >
> > >> My pal That JonoGuy said:
> > >> > WHAT? why should YOU question my
tastes in the FIRST place. my tastes
> > >> >are my tastes. even IF they don't fit
with yours.
> >
> > >Todd VerBeek wrote:
> > >> That's true. And if you're happy with
your tastes, that's great for you.
> > >> But if someone thinks Lite beer,
McDonald's fries, New Kids On The Block
> > >> recordings, or episodes of "Saved By the
Bell" are really great, then I
> > >> too reserve the right to question whether
their tastes are a bit peculiar.
> >
> > My pal That JonoGuy said:
> > > NO one deserves the right to QUESTION
anothers tastes. you have a right ot
> > >HAVE your OWN, but not to question others.
that makes NO sense what so ever
> > >to me. you may not AGREE with them, but it
is by no means OKAY to say that
> > >they may be wrong. cause that is what it
sounded like what you posted.
> >
> > Not "wrong", just "peculiar". (KIND of like
the way you TYPE like a comic
> > book superhero TALKS. {smile})
> >
>
> peculiar by your standards. see, there is a
difference. what you said is that
> your questioning them because they are not
similar to your tastes.
>
> >
> > >> >> Pop Mhan
> > >> >> seriously needs to take some life
drawing courses. There's bad anatomy
> > >> >> and then there's Pop Mhan.
> >
> > >> > Whose to say he HASN'T.
> >
> > >> >Comics AREN"T meant to be a reflection of
> > >> >reality. most comics that is. MOSTLY
comics are an ESCAPE from reality,
> > >> >and with that anything is possible.
> >
> > >> Maybe. But even with "escapist" stories,
some connection to reality is
> > >> helpful. Having people that don't look
like people makes that kinda
> > >> difficult.
> > >> I'm told that one of the great abstract
painters used to insist that no
> > >> one should paint abstract art until they
were able to paint a realistic
> > >> rendering of a cow. In other words, you
need to know the rules before you
> > >> should try breaking them. I'm not
convinced Mhan knows the rules.
> >
> > > I am SURE he DOES know the rules.
> >
> > But =how= are you sure? Have you seen
evidence of this? Or is this just
> > the faithful assertion of a fawning fan?
> >
> > And one point I forgot to mention before is
that an artist should break
> > the rules - and yes, they really =should=
break them - but do so
> > deliberately. That is, they should break the
rules for a reason.
> > (So is Mhan trying to make a statement about
all of humanity being ugly or
> > something?)
> >
>
> There is a thing called stylized drawing.
where features are overly
> exagerrated. this must be what Pop used. why
must there be a reason to break
> the rules? Other artists break them and for no
reason just for the sake of
> something different.
>
> >
> > >he is a graphic designer i believe.
> >
> > Not the same thing. There are a lot of
common factors between the two,
> > they are very different fields of art. I'm
taking both Graphic Design and
> > Illustration classes (I'm nearly a junior and
I haven't picked a major
> > yet; the Registrar hates me). My Ill.
classmates deride G.D. students as
> > people who can't draw, and my G.D. classmates
scoff at the inability of
> > Illustrators to put together a decent ad
layout. I do see some good
> > graphic design in Mhan's pages, but his
figure drawing is simply Not Very
> > Good. If he's as talented at it as you
assume he must be, maybe he should
> > try realism.
> >
>
> Okay i messed up on this part.
>
> >
> > Cheers, Todd ("jack" of both trades...
working at moving up to "queen")
> > --
> > in fond memory of DeForest Kelley (1920-
1999) "I'm dead, Jim."
>
> That JonoGuy
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
christi...@my-deja.com
So...I think Mhan's manga-influenced drawing
is interesting and I like it too
In article <01beba48$d7b00000$LocalHost@default>,
"Paulo Costa" <darkm...@mail.telepac.pt> wrote:
>
> Sean Curtin <mass...@berkshire.net> escreveu no artigo
> <376ACEA1...@berkshire.net>...
> >
> > cgri...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > > There's bad anatomy and then there's Pop Mhan.
> >
> > Pop Mhan is to manga as Rob Liefeld is to Jack Kirby.
> >
> >
> > Sean Curtin
> > Can't believe I said "Rob Liefeld" and "Jack Kirby" in the same
> > sentence
>
> I can't believe you've made a comparison with Rob Liefeld and Jack
Kirby.
>
> --
> Paulo Costa
> "What are we doing tomorrow, Brain?" - Pinky
>
> Handbook of Marvel Creators: http://welcome.to/homc
> Squadron Supreme: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Stargate/4489
>
Todd VerBeek
> Do you have any samples of your drawings?
>I wish to see them so bad.
I don't have a personal gallery online, but there are a couple examples
you can get to: <http://www.i2k.com/~verbeek/GIJoe.jpg> (scanned from a
school assignment - before taking Life Drawing, I hasten to point out - in
which I rendered my old G.I.Joe doll as if he were a real model), and
<http://www.RZero.com/books/reviewer.html> (a self-portrait).
>You are an art student right?
I'm a sophomore at Kendall College of Art & Design in Grand Rapids MI.
I'm working on my second college degree; the first was in computer
science.
>You draw cartoon? comic stuff? Ever do submission?
I've drawn some comics for my own benefit, but I've never submitted
anything to a publisher. While I might enjoy working for one, I'd be more
interested at this point in publishing my own material. (As soon as I
have the time, money, and resolve.)
>Do you think you can draw better than some artists?
Certainly. I am getting "A"s, and many of my classmates aren't, so I must
be better than =they= are, at least. {smile}
As for whether I'm better than any pro comics artists... in some respects,
yes. My figure-drawing is better than I've seen of Mhan's, for example.
My ability to render a shape with a minimum amount of line work is far
better than, say, Liefeld's. But I'm still pretty inexperienced with the
"storytelling" aspect of comics art, which is something I've never been
taught, so I'm not entirely sure I could do better. And I've never tried
cranking it out on a monthly basis. There's more to doing comics art than
simply drawing pretty pictures.
>You do graphic design too? Can I see your stuff?
The easiest example to point to would be my comicbook-reviews site:
<http://www.RZero.com/books/>. I've also started a site for the place I
work part-time <http://www.HHS-inc.com/>.
Cheers, Todd