Artist/writer salary
Johan Stensson
Who is best paid? The artist or the writer?
And how much do they get?
Are artists well-paid in general, or is it just the big-shots like
McFarlane, Miller, Lee, that get rich on their jobs?
--
**********************************
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** "My software never has bugs. **
** It just develops random **
** features." **
** **
** Johan Stensson, '96 SWEDEN **
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The Watcher
Johan Stensson wrote:
>
> Who is best paid? The artist or the writer?
> And how much do they get?
> Are artists well-paid in general, or is it just the big-shots like
> McFarlane, Miller, Lee, that get rich on their jobs?
I'm not sure about the industry average, but McFarlane reportedly earned $5 million
last year. Just goes to show you that the real money is in creating and marketing your
own characters.
Michael Chong
goran.s...@mailbox.swipnet.se (Johan Stensson) wrote:
>Who is best paid? The artist or the writer?
>And how much do they get?
>Are artists well-paid in general, or is it just the big-shots like
>McFarlane, Miller, Lee, that get rich on their jobs?
I have no idea, but the founders of Image(Lee, Liefeld, McToddy,
Silvestri, etc)have all made million$. Self publishers(if
successful)make more than anyone else(other than like the big 2.
Mike
pm...@vms.cis.pitt.edu
In article <31D880...@cris.com>, The Watcher <wr...@cris.com> writes:
> Johan Stensson wrote:
>>
>> Who is best paid? The artist or the writer?
>> And how much do they get?
>> Are artists well-paid in general, or is it just the big-shots like
>> McFarlane, Miller, Lee, that get rich on their jobs?
>
> last year. Just goes to show you that the real money is in creating and marketing your
> own characters.
Supposedly in the 70s when Marvel overtook DC in sales, there was a collective
shrug from Warner brothers, since basically they were putting out comics to keep
selling Batman and Superman merchandise and not to make money off the comics.
Later on, as unit prices increased and readership increased, that changed, but
the two are still interconnected.
As far as the original question goes, I don't know. I would think that the
artist makes more since--unless you're Mike Deodato--you can only come out with
one book a month. A comics writer can do several a month and still have time to
surf the net every day.
--Patrick in Pgh
Christian Michael Viola
The artist makes more because he is the more important. In fact, i
believe that some inkers also make more than writers. The writer is
usually second or third which is why so many of them do multiple books
while the artist only has to do one.
Christian
Jacquelyn Schnoop
In <klqPzay00...@andrew.cmu.edu> Christian Michael Viola
Without the writer, there is no story. A writer working on a
good-selling book can do quite well financially by only writing one
title. Many write other titles because they WANT to, not because they
have to write them to bring in the bucks. If you don't know what
you're talking about, you really shouldn't respond to posts. BTW, I
KNOW of what I speak...
Jackie
Vermilion
How 'bout that.... I ALSO know of what I speak. No good story happens
without the talents of a good writer. But there's a BIG distinction between
what reads well and what sells well. Consider the comics market - there are
TONS of good stories out there being told, if you look in the right places.
However, those stories generally aren't found in the pages of the Uncanny
X-Men and Spawn. Why not? Because, for the most part, good art _sells_
better. It really, really does. All the guys that went to Image are big time
artists. No writers in the lot. Why? Because art sells better, they could
make it work. Pick a book, any average, ordinary comic book. Make Peter
David the writer, with an average penciller. It'll sell pretty well,
especially within David's fan base. Okay, now remove David and put in an
ordinary writer, but make Todd McFarlane the artist. The book will sell
ludicrously well. That's just the way the medium works, within respect to the
audiences. I'd expect there's plenty of 12-year old's out there that like to
see neato pictures of Spawn gutting people, but fewer 12-year old's that can
read most of the Sandman series and appreciate it. And, not to throw more
stones, but look at ALL of these Liefeld books: Glory, Avengylne, Avengeblade,
DarkChylde, Lady Pendragon... Ever single one is a tits and ass book, putting
it simply. Any book that issues a 'lingerie special' or 'swimsuit special' is
marketed solely for the art, and towards horny young boys. Look at the other
Liefeld books - plots are convoluted, characterization is almost nil - but
they still sell. Hell, even I keep buying Prophet, even though I have almost
no idea what's going on from one issue to the next. But I absolutely love to
look at Stephen Platt's pencils. I will buy a poor story with good art on
occasion, but I won't buy a good story with poor art. The medium is too
visually oriented to sell well with sub-par artwork. Now, as far as
storytelling, I totally agree that a writer is more important. Most any
artist can do a competant job if the story moves well. But if it just doesn't
leap out and grab the buyer's eye on the shelf, it won't make money. The
artists do that, and that's why, in general, they make more than writers.
Coincidently, if you DO read any X-books, you know that writing talent is no
prerequisite to make those books sell. Lobdell's the streakiest comic writer
on the planet, and Mackie couldn't write the X-Factor characters properly to
save his soul. Matsuda? Madureira? Yes indeed, and they keep on selling.
- Vermilion, who's an artist, but still isn't paid a lot of money ;)
Jacquelyn Schnoop
My main contention with Mr. Viola's comments was that he implied that
the writer was not important and that writers MUST write many titles in
order to survive financially. He's absolutely wrong. Writers on
popular books needn't write several titles concurrently. I don't
disagree with your comments, but I think Mr. Viola is still bearing his
PAD cross and touting his personal opinions as fact.
I hope more work and the money heads your way...
bishop
Vermilion wrote:
> How 'bout that.... I ALSO know of what I speak. No good story happens
> without the talents of a good writer. But there's a BIG distinction
> between what reads well and what sells well. Consider the comics market -
> there are TONS of good stories out there being told, if you look in the
> right places. However, those stories generally aren't found in the pages
> of the Uncanny X-Men and Spawn.
I just have to that McFarlane has made great strides in his writing since his
Spiderman days, which isn't saying much in itself. He has managed to put out
more than just pretty picture book.
> Why not? Because, for the most part, good art _sells_better. It really,
> really does. All the guys that went to Image are big time artists. No
> writers in the lot. Why? Because art sells better, they could make it
> work. Pick a book, any average, ordinary comic book. Make Peter David the
> writer, with an average penciller. It'll sell pretty well, especially
> within David's fan base. Okay, now remove David and put in an
> ordinary writer, but make Todd McFarlane the artist. The book will sell
> ludicrously well. That's just the way the medium works, within respect to
> like to see neato pictures of Spawn gutting people, but fewer 12-year old's
> that can read most of the Sandman series and appreciate it.
You know when I was twelve I could have read Sandman, but I choose not
because that genre of book never appealed to me. Lets gives kids some credit
they know what they want, and they will seek it out if they want to. Comic
books first and foremost are a visual medium so art will naturally take
precedence over story for a lot of the market. Like the movies a pretty
picture will do wonders fo a bad script.
> And, not to throw more stones, but look at ALL of these Liefeld books:
> Glory, Avengylne, Avengeblade, DarkChylde, Lady Pendragon... Ever single
> one is a tits and ass book, putting it simply. Any book that issues a
> 'lingerie special' or 'swimsuit special' is marketed solely for the art,
> and towards horny young boys. Look at the other Liefeld books - plots are convoluted, characterization is almost nil - but they still sell.
From what I understand they do not sell that well.
> Hell, even I keep buying Prophet, even though I have almost no idea what's
> going on from one issue to the next. But I absolutely love to look at
> Stephen Platt's pencils. I will buy a poor story with good art on
> occasion, but I won't buy a good story with poor art. The medium is too
> visually oriented to sell well with sub-par artwork. Now, as far as
> storytelling, I totally agree that a writer is more important. Most any
> artist can do a competant job if the story moves well. But if it just doesn't
> leap out and grab the buyer's eye on the shelf, it won't make money. The
> artists do that, and that's why, in general, they make more than writers.
A perfect example of what your mentioning is Capt. A. during Ron Lim's run
and afterward. During the run Gruenwald's writing IMO was the best of his
ten year tenure. After Lim, Gruenwald seemed to loose interest and his
writing really suffered. When Lim later came back to do a couple of fill in
issues Gruenwald's writing picked back up, only to nose dive after Lim left
again.
> Coincidently, if you DO read any X-books, you know that writing talent is
> no
> prerequisite to make those books sell. Lobdell's the streakiest comic
> writer on the planet
agreed.
Robert A. Jung
In article <4rd4s8$2...@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com> tea...@ix.netcom.com(Jacquelyn Schnoop) writes:
>In <klqPzay00...@andrew.cmu.edu> Christian Michael Viola <cv...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>>The artist makes more because he is the more important.
>
>good-selling book can do quite well financially by only writing one
>title. Many write other titles because they WANT to, not because they
>have to write them to bring in the bucks. If you don't know what
>you're talking about, you really shouldn't respond to posts. BTW, I
>KNOW of what I speak...
You must be new here, Jacquelyn -- that's never stopped Christian Viola
before, and it won't work now.
--R.J.
B-)
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"I write because I am personally amused by what I do, and if other people are
amused by it, then it's fine. If they're not, then that's also fine."
Send mail to rj...@netcom.com --Frank Zappa
Christian Michael Viola
BWHHAHAHAHA. What a laugh. Take away the writer and you still can have
a damn good story (see GI JOE) or just have a comic book. Take away the
artist and what do you have-NOTHING! No cover, no drawing, nothing.
What draws a person to a title-the cover, the art. Why do you buy a
t-shirt or poster-for the art. WAKE UP!
> A writer working on a
> good-selling book can do quite well financially by only writing one
> title.
The thing is there are NO superstars who are just writers. They are all
writer-artists (and thats usually because alot of these hack writers
suck so bad, like Waid, that any baboon could write the pathetic stories
they churn out).
> Many write other titles because they WANT to, not because they
> have to write them to bring in the bucks. If you don't know what
> you're talking about, you really shouldn't respond to posts.
You know you must be new here and you should really learn to speak with
intelligence before you spew forth such stupid ramblings. We already
have one ditzy female named Elayne we don't need another. THE FACT IS
artists make MORE than writers. DEAL WITH IT!!!!
> BTW, I
> KNOW of what I speak...
Funny, if thats true then you must have worked in comics. I've never
heard of you. You mustn't have been too talented. Still workin or did
your job get taken by a writer/artist?
Christian
Moxie
> >Jacquelyn Sch...@ix.net writes: Take away the writer and you still can have
> >a damn good story (see GI JOE) or just have a comic book. Take away the
> >artist and what do you have-NOTHING!
Along the lines of this subject how much of the price of a comic book is what they pay
the artist, and writer. Someone out there who knows of what they speak on this subject.
A pie [chart] would be nice. Think of it as a challange, making the pie chart that is.
Mary
Donald Stroud
In article Xe00WB...@andrew.cmu.edu, Christian Michael Viola <cv...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>Jacquelyn Sch...@ix.net writes:
>> Without the writer, there is no story.
>
>a damn good story (see GI JOE) or just have a comic book. Take away the
>What draws a person to a title-the cover, the art. Why do you buy a
>t-shirt or poster-for the art. WAKE UP!
<snip>
>The thing is there are NO superstars who are just writers. They are all
>writer-artists (and thats usually because alot of these hack writers
>suck so bad, like Waid, that any baboon could write the pathetic stories
>they churn out).
<snip>
>We already
>have one ditzy female named Elayne we don't need another. THE FACT IS
>artists make MORE than writers. DEAL WITH IT!!!!
>
You know, I have done my best to stay out of this, to keep quiet and not
get involved, but this just did me in. Christian, you are the most
arrogant comic geek idiot I have ever had the misfortune of hearing voice
his "opinions". You are without a doubt the prime example of why comic
readers are still considered social misfits.
Your arguments are beligerent, your supporting evidence is flimsy (if not
completely fabricated), and your attitude is a disgrace to everything these
newsgroups stand for. Please sell your computer, buy some in-line skates and
and blindfold, and go play in traffic.
Is it possible that all the rest of us here in rac.mu can agree to ignore
Christian until his ego withers and dies from lack of stroking?
Brian Hance
Christian Michael Viola <cv...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>Jacquelyn Sch...@ix.net writes:
>> Without the writer, there is no story.
>
>BWHHAHAHAHA. What a laugh. Take away the writer and you still can have
>a damn good story (see GI JOE) or just have a comic book. Take away the
>artist and what do you have-NOTHING! No cover, no drawing, nothing.
>What draws a person to a title-the cover, the art. Why do you buy a
>t-shirt or poster-for the art. WAKE UP!
If you are talking about the 'silent' GI Joe issue, that was written by
Larry Hama. A fine writer who, to the best of my knowledge, doesn't draw.
If we are talking about comics, you can't have a comic if someone doesn't
write a general story. This can be the artist, i.e. Terry Moore, Alan
Davis, Todd McFarlane, Frank Miller, Colleen Doran, and Dave Sim. I am
quite certain that any of these write up some kind of preliminary script,
or at least an outline, before they start penciling.
>> A writer working on a
>> good-selling book can do quite well financially by only writing one
>> title.
>
>The thing is there are NO superstars who are just writers.
This is because, yes, comics are a visual medium. A good artist can make
the crappiest story almost bearable. Hell, I picked up Motormouth from
Marvel UK just because Gary Frank is a damn fine artist. Conversely (and
I'm sure you'll appreciate this Christian) I pick up anything PAD writes
because I like the way he writes, just like I'm sure you pick up anything
by McFarlane does because you like the way he writes.
>They are all
>writer-artists (and thats usually because alot of these hack writers
>suck so bad, like Waid, that any baboon could write the pathetic stories
>they churn out).
>
>> Many write other titles because they WANT to, not because they
>> have to write them to bring in the bucks. If you don't know what
>> you're talking about, you really shouldn't respond to posts.
>
>You know you must be new here and you should really learn to speak with
>intelligence before you spew forth such stupid ramblings. We already
>have one ditzy female named Elayne we don't need another. THE FACT IS
>artists make MORE than writers. DEAL WITH IT!!!!
Please explain why you need to be such a flagellating butthead. Instead of
arguing like a rational human being, you resort to pathetic, childish,
whiny insults. Instead of expecting people to simply stop and bow to your
'superior logic', try acting with a little courtesy and tact. It works
wonders.
Brian Hance bha...@primenet.com
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If the severed head of Dave Gibbons appears on your computer screen,
jabbering manically at you, do not be fobbed off by him and his evil
cronies. They're plainly up to something."
Warren Ellis
Jerry B. Ray
In article <slt4_Xe00...@andrew.cmu.edu>,
Christian Michael Viola <cv...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>BWHHAHAHAHA. What a laugh. Take away the writer and you still can have
>a damn good story (see GI JOE) or just have a comic book.
Er, even if there aren't any _words_ (dialogue or captions), somebody
still has to write the _plot_ for what gets drawn by the artist or
you've just got a pinup book.
>Take away the
>artist and what do you have-NOTHING! No cover, no drawing, nothing.
Yeah, an actual _book_. With NO PICTURES! I guess I can excuse your
unfamiliarity with the concept. ;-)
JRjr
--
%%%%% vap...@prism.gatech.edu %%%%%%%% Jerry B. Ray, Jr. %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
"Oh, look at me, I'm way cool. I'm off with my way cool friends to sniff
floor wax."
-- Brian Krakow, _My So-Called Life_
Philip Weetman
Donald Stroud (dst...@captaina.eng.sun.com) wrote:
: You know, I have done my best to stay out of this, to keep quiet and not
: get involved, but this just did me in. Christian, you are the most
: arrogant comic geek idiot I have ever had the misfortune of hearing voice
: his "opinions". You are without a doubt the prime example of why comic
: readers are still considered social misfits.
: Your arguments are beligerent, your supporting evidence is flimsy (if not
: completely fabricated), and your attitude is a disgrace to everything these
: newsgroups stand for. Please sell your computer, buy some in-line skates and
: and blindfold, and go play in traffic.
: Is it possible that all the rest of us here in rac.mu can agree to ignore
: Christian until his ego withers and dies from lack of stroking?
for those of you out there who are trying to finally educate him
with that one flawless argument , it won't happen . You can't convince
someone who won't consider anyone else's opinion valid .
I guess all you can do is have fun with him . That's what us
lurkers do .
DAVID TELESCA
An ignorant person wrote:
>BWHHAHAHAHA. What a laugh. Take away the writer and you still can have
>a damn good story (see GI JOE) or just have a comic book. Take away
the
>artist and what do you have-NOTHING! No cover, no drawing, nothing.
>What draws a person to a title-the cover, the art. Why do you buy a
>t-shirt or poster-for the art. WAKE UP!
When I look for reading material, I generally don't sit by the fire and
read t-shirts, but to each his own.
>The thing is there are NO superstars who are just writers. They are
all
>writer-artists (and thats usually because alot of these hack writers
>suck so bad, like Waid, that any baboon could write the pathetic
stories
>they churn out).
Two words: Chris Claremont
David T.
Jacquelyn Schnoop
In <31E4A4...@bmi.net> Moxie <mox...@bmi.net> writes:
>
>> >Jacquelyn Sch...@ix.net writes: Take away the writer and you still
can have
>> >a damn good story (see GI JOE) or just have a comic book. Take
away the
>> >artist and what do you have-NOTHING!
>
is what they pay
>the artist, and writer. Someone out there who knows of what they
speak on this subject.
> A pie [chart] would be nice. Think of it as a challange, making the
pie chart that is.
>
>Mary
Excuse me. Those weren't my words. That quote came from Christian
Viola. I stressed the importance of the writer and the story.
I've been mis-cut n' copied!
Jackie
Jacquelyn Schnoop
In <slt4_Xe00...@andrew.cmu.edu> Christian Michael Viola
<cv...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>BWHHAHAHAHA. What a laugh. Take away the writer and you still can
have
>a damn good story (see GI JOE) or just have a comic book. Take away
the
>artist and what do you have-NOTHING! No cover, no drawing, nothing.
>What draws a person to a title-the cover, the art. Why do you buy a
>t-shirt or poster-for the art. WAKE UP!
<snip>
>The thing is there are NO superstars who are just writers. They are
all
>writer-artists (and thats usually because alot of these hack writers
>suck so bad, like Waid, that any baboon could write the pathetic
stories
>they churn out).
<snip>
>You know you must be new here and you should really learn to speak
with
>intelligence before you spew forth such stupid ramblings. We already
>have one ditzy female named Elayne we don't need another. THE FACT IS
>artists make MORE than writers. DEAL WITH IT!!!!
<snip>
>Funny, if thats true then you must have worked in comics. I've never
>heard of you. You mustn't have been too talented. Still workin or
did
>your job get taken by a writer/artist?
Christian, time for some basic lessons:
1. There must be a story to a story. A plot. A beginning, a middle,
an end. Even without scripting evident, *somebody* has to write the
story. Otherwise, there is no story.
2. I don't buy posters or t-shirts for the story. I buy a book for
the story; comic books and novels both fit the description of book.
3. Yes, I'll grant that comic books are a visual media. However, I
still want a story. I have no desire to *read* unrelated artwork that
does *not* tell a story.
4. I didn't say that writers earned more than artists. I said that it
is not *necessary* for a writer to work on several concurrent books.
You obviously have no creative desires of your own; but both writers
and artists often *desire* to see what they can bring to characters.
Not from greed, but the genuine interest to see what can be done with a
character and their talents.
5. No superstar writers who aren't artist/writers? I beg to differ.
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but Kurt Busiek doesn't seem to capitalize
on his artwork. He tells a good story. Many other writers have
certainly made it to the designation of *Superstar*. He's just one
example.
6. Oh, I may be new at posting, but I wasn't born yesterday. I've
been called many, many things in my life--*ditzy* is not one of them.
Wanna match academic records? <g> BTW, I do respect Elayne.
7. Why must I have worked in comics? I get paid to write, but not
comics. I've been paid for lettering, too. Not in comics. Suffice it
to say that I have a close relationship with a writer (not a
writer/artist) who has made a comfortable living for twenty years in
the business. After his initial struggles anyway...
Simple enough for you, Christian?
Jackie
Spooon
Christian Michael Viola <cv...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>Jacquelyn Sch...@ix.net writes:
>> Without the writer, there is no story.
>BWHHAHAHAHA. What a laugh. Take away the writer and you still can have
>a damn good story (see GI JOE) or just have a comic book. Take away the
>artist and what do you have-NOTHING!
You have a NOVEL, which, last time I looked in a bookstore, still can
do quite well.
> No cover, no drawing, nothing.
>What draws a person to a title-the cover, the art. Why do you buy a
>t-shirt or poster-for the art. WAKE UP!
>> A writer working on a
>> good-selling book can do quite well financially by only writing one
>> title.
True. But due to the nature of the work, a writer can do MORE books
than an artist can.
>The thing is there are NO superstars who are just writers. They are all
There aren't any super-stars who are ONLY artists either, by that
rationale.
>writer-artists (and thats usually because alot of these hack writers
>suck so bad, like Waid, that any baboon could write the pathetic stories
>they churn out).
That depends on how you define "superstar." And I think that you are
confusing "writing" with "scripting" and "plotting." A scripter fills
in the word balloons. A ploter lays out how the storys. A writer
does BOTH. The artist fraws what the WRITER writes.
>> Many write other titles because they WANT to, not because they
>> have to write them to bring in the bucks. If you don't know what
>> you're talking about, you really shouldn't respond to posts.
>You know you must be new here and you should really learn to speak with
>intelligence before you spew forth such stupid ramblings. We already
>have one ditzy female named Elayne we don't need another. THE FACT IS
>artists make MORE than writers. DEAL WITH IT!!!!
Perhaps they do, I don;t know, but artwork takes much more time than
writing in the finished dialogue. But, I do beleive that there is a
great deal of fluctuation between the pay rates of arists and writers.
You can't really make blanket statements like this.
-------------------Signorance is Bliss---------------------
Spooon (Who sometimes goes by the name James R. Henry)
Spo...@aol.com | "You are not what you think you are;
rl...@uakron.edu | but what you think, you are."
| -- Author unknown (to me at least)
Air Judden
Christian Michael Viola <cv...@andrew.cmu.edu> writes:
>The thing is there are NO superstars who are just writers. They are all
>writer-artists (and thats usually because alot of these hack writers
>suck so bad, like Waid, that any baboon could write the pathetic stories
>they churn out).
I have never been one to follow artists or writers to non-Spidey
comics, but I am seriously considering getting Astro City because Kurt
writes it. I need to find a way to get caught up to date, if I do, and I
haven't seen it at my comic store, but he is so good on his Spidey work, I
am considering checking out his other works.
I betting Supergirl does pretty well, because PAD writes it. My
roommate started reading Hulk because of PAD, and always said he'd quit if
PAD left.
I hear good things about Frank Miller and Neil Guiman, though I have
never read them. And J.M. DeMatteis has quite a good rep.
As far as superstar writer-artists, I loved Todd McFarlane's work on
Amazing, but thought his writing on Spider-Man sucked eggs. If he improves,
maybe he can get to the baboon stage.
There are superstar artists (Bagley is quickly becoming one) and there
are superstar writers, as well.
Judden
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
Well, I've graduated from "moron" to "ditzy" - I suppose that's an
improvement, at any rate. :)
I do believe Christian is correct in his supposition that, as a rule,
artist page rates are higher than page rates for writers. But a lot of
this is dependent on individual contracts. And of course, the varying
rates have nothing to do with his spurious and ill-informed arguments,
but this is not news to anyone who has encountered his vitriolic posts.
As others have pointed out, a comic without pictures is usually known as
a book. I believe authors get paid far more than illustrators in the
book industry, which of course casts a far wider net and gains much more
respect in this country than the comic industry.
- Elayne
--
E-Mail me, the "Firehead Head," for more info about the official ()~~
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snail mail or free online! "This replica... houses our guru, ##
Tiny Dr. Tim. Let's knock on the door and see if he's in..." _##_
Snowlock
Christian Michael Viola wrote:
>
> Jacquelyn Sch...@ix.net writes:
> > Without the writer, there is no story.
>
> BWHHAHAHAHA. What a laugh. Take away the writer and you still can have
> a damn good story (see GI JOE) or just have a comic book.
WIthout a writer you have trading cards with staples.
> Take away the
> artist and what do you have-NOTHING!
Actually, they're called books
> What draws a person to a title-the cover, the art.
Maybe for you, which explains why you're such an image fan.
> Why do you buy a
> t-shirt or poster-for the art. WAKE UP!
I have an apple, you have an orange...
Kurt Busiek
Air Judden wrote:
>
> I have never been one to follow artists or writers to non-Spidey
> comics, but I am seriously considering getting Astro City because Kurt
> writes it. I need to find a way to get caught up to date, if I do, and I
> haven't seen it at my comic store, but he is so good on his Spidey work, I
> am considering checking out his other works.
Thanks for the very kind words. If you want to get "caught up" on
ASTRO CITY, there'll be a trade paperback of the first six issues out
within a couple of weeks. But there's no need to have read the book
from #1 to understand it; the first six issues were all one-issue
stories, and when the series returns next month, we'll be starting off
with an introductory story that'll be as welcoming to new readers
as to returning readers. And I try to write every issue to stand on
its own, whether it's got continuing plotlines or not.
If you do pick up an issue, I hope you'll let me know what you thought.
kurt
prui...@wofford.edu
Quick thought on this running debate on artists vs. writers:
Without the writer, the artist has nothing to draw and without the artist the
writer has no means through which to tell his story in a comic book format. In
other words, this debate is a moot point.
DCP
Ground Zero Comics
>>BWHHAHAHAHA. What a laugh. Take away the writer and you still can have
>>artist and what do you have-NOTHING! No cover, no drawing, nothing.
>>What draws a person to a title-the cover, the art. Why do you buy a
>>t-shirt or poster-for the art. WAKE UP!
><snip>
>>The thing is there are NO superstars who are just writers. They are all
>>writer-artists (and thats usually because alot of these hack writers
>>suck so bad, like Waid, that any baboon could write the pathetic stories
>>they churn out).
><snip>
>>We already
>>have one ditzy female named Elayne we don't need another. THE FACT IS
>>artists make MORE than writers. DEAL WITH IT!!!!
>>
Hey did Rob get a new name and e-mail address?
Garrett
"If you can find lower prices on these books from anyone else,
Than buy them from them. I would."
Paul O'Brien
fire...@panix.com (Elayne Wechsler-Chaput) writes:
>I do believe Christian is correct in his supposition that, as a rule,
>artist page rates are higher than page rates for writers.
That's only to be expected, of course. Drawing a page of art is a
much more time-consuming task than writing it; the professional
writer has the option of writing more than one book at once, whereas
most artists today can't even manage twenty-two pages a month.
Paul O'Brien
pr...@tattoo.ed.ac.uk, 1995 SLT (News) 228
The future's dark. The future's Orange.
Vermilion
>BWHHAHAHAHA. What a laugh. Take away the writer and you still can have
>a damn good story (see GI JOE) or just have a comic book. Take away the
>artist and what do you have-NOTHING! No cover, no drawing, nothing.
>What draws a person to a title-the cover, the art. Why do you buy a
>t-shirt or poster-for the art. WAKE UP!
A book with words but no pictures? I often refer to them as 'Novels', and
some of them tend to sell millions of copies. The writers in fact can become
quite well known. A book with pictures but no words? I often refer to them
as 'Coloring Books', and some of them sell a few thousand copies. The
artists, in fact, are no one at all.
Why a T-shirt? Keeps me warm. Posters? Cover up the holes in the wall.
I also buy books, with big bunches of words, together in sentences, grouped in
paragraphs, to enjoy and, on occasion, learn. I can only assume you use those
nasty books with all the words and no big pictures to prop up the wobbly leg
on your couch. Well else is it good for, eh?
- Vermilion, who wonders if Christian colors within the lines...
Aaron B Bitler
prui...@wofford.edu wrote:
: Quick thought on this running debate on artists vs. writers:
: DCP
i believe it is a point. as everyone has said the writer has a medium
to tell stories. words. but without the words the artist does not have
a job.
Aaron
Mikko Henri Juhani Aittola
> Quick thought on this running debate on artists vs. writers:
> Without the writer, the artist has nothing to draw and without the artist the
> writer has no means through which to tell his story in a comic book
> format. In other words, this debate is a moot point.
Well put. I'm pretty amazed some people seem to think otherwise.
/Mikko
Matt and Vicki Holmes
Christian Michael Viola <cv...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>BWHHAHAHAHA. What a laugh. Take away the writer and you still can have
>a damn good story (see GI JOE) or just have a comic book. Take away the
>artist and what do you have-NOTHING! No cover, no drawing, nothing.
>What draws a person to a title-the cover, the art. Why do you buy a
>t-shirt or poster-for the art. WAKE UP!
Which is less surprising... that Christian "I'm Smart Because I Say
So!" Viola thinks GI JOE had "a damn good story", or that Mr "Todd is
a God and Liefeld is right behind Him" reveals that he knows NOTHING
about what makes a great comic?
>The thing is there are NO superstars who are just writers. They are all
>writer-artists (and thats usually because alot of these hack writers
>suck so bad, like Waid, that any baboon could write the pathetic stories
>they churn out).
I was going to point out to Christian names like Moore and Gaiman, but
then I remembered that they regularly use words with more than 2
syllables in them, thereby making their tales unreadable to Christian.
Of course, Christian likes the ODD multisyllabic word, like
"advantageous", I'm guessing...
>You know you must be new here and you should really learn to speak with
>intelligence before you spew forth such stupid ramblings. We already
>have one ditzy female named Elayne we don't need another. THE FACT IS
>artists make MORE than writers. DEAL WITH IT!!!!
Christian, thanks for adding "misogynist" to the growing list of
unattractive labels that apply to you. As if we didn't already have
ENOUGH of them!!
Matt Holmes
mho...@mars.execulink.com
Now the proud owner of a page of original art actually
WRITTEN BY ALAN MOORE!
Christian Michael Viola
Jacquelyn St...@ix.net writes:
> 1. There must be a story to a story. A plot. A beginning, a middle,
> an end. Even without scripting evident, *somebody* has to write the
> story. Otherwise, there is no story.
A plot and story are two different things. What I mean is when I say
write Im talking about some guy filling in the captions and word
balloons. A comic can do very well without such things. An artist can
make a comic very easily without such things. Hence, as long as you got
a artist who has a story to tell thats all you need, a clown to fill in
word balloons is unneeded.
> 2. I don't buy posters or t-shirts for the story. I buy a book for
> the story; comic books and novels both fit the description of book.
Were not talking about novels, were talking about comics. Without
pictures, just words you have a NOVEL not a COMIC BOOK, without words
you can have a COMIC BOOK--do you understand yet or do I have to use 1
syllable words?
> 3. Yes, I'll grant that comic books are a visual media. However, I
> still want a story. I have no desire to *read* unrelated artwork that
> does *not* tell a story.
I agree, but you dont need a writer just a plotter (different things).
> 4. I didn't say that writers earned more than artists. I said that it
> is not *necessary* for a writer to work on several concurrent books.
> You obviously have no creative desires of your own; but both writers
> and artists often *desire* to see what they can bring to characters.
> Not from greed, but the genuine interest to see what can be done with a
> character and their talents.
You are paid according to your value. Artists on average make more than
writers on average, a FACT. Artists are vastly more important.
> 5. No superstar writers who aren't artist/writers? I beg to differ.
> Correct me if I'm mistaken, but Kurt Busiek doesn't seem to capitalize
> on his artwork. He tells a good story. Many other writers have
> certainly made it to the designation of *Superstar*. He's just one
> example.
No he's not. kurt is by no stretch of the imagination a superstar. I
know that somebody out there is probably thinkin "uh oh nows the
pro-basher is goin after kurt" Really i'm not, i have alot of respect
for kurt. But as far as talent and status go, i have many questions
about him, as do any reasonable comic fan (would anybody really put him
in PAD's league as a regular story superhero scribe??) Although I hear
kurt is gonna get his big break shortly as he writes the first Image
crossover mini (GOOD LUCK KURT!).
> 6. Oh, I may be new at posting, but I wasn't born yesterday. I've
> been called many, many things in my life--*ditzy* is not one of them.
> Wanna match academic records? <g> BTW, I do respect Elayne.
Then I have no respect for your opinions as you obviously have no taste
and are a terrible judge of character.
> 7. Why must I have worked in comics? I get paid to write, but not
> comics. I've been paid for lettering, too. Not in comics. Suffice it
> to say that I have a close relationship with a writer (not a
> writer/artist) who has made a comfortable living for twenty years in
> the business. After his initial struggles anyway...
Then you have personal bias as well. Not surprising given your inane comments.
Christian
Alan D. Earhart
In article <klvgpjG00...@andrew.cmu.edu>, Christian Michael Viola
<cv...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
> Then you have personal bias as well. Not surprising given your inane
comments.
Get your quote books out, people. Yes, we have another!
Robert A. Jung
In article <aearhart-180...@news-stand.acs.ohio-state.edu> aear...@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Alan D. Earhart) writes:
>In article <klvgpjG00...@andrew.cmu.edu>, Christian Michael Viola <cv...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>> Then you have personal bias as well. Not surprising given your inane
>>comments.
>
>Get your quote books out, people. Yes, we have another!
I ran out of shelf space already for Christian's never-ending stream of
moronic quotations. Anyone got a three-gig hard drive they don't need that
I can use? B-)
Brian Hance
warr...@falcon.jmu.edu (Rachel K. Warren) wrote:
>Uhm, I picked up the first three issues of Motormouth. Gary Frank is a
>great artist, but I thought the story was pretty ok! I sure as heck
>had a great laugh at the issues. :)
I dunno, the premise was good and the characters had potential, but
something was missing for me. Just didn't click.
I will be picking up Supergirl, though. PAD and Frank together again. I
just need to get some of that green paper stuff. Um, what's it called
again.......... :)
Rachel K. Warren
> >Jacquelyn Sch...@ix.net writes:
> This is because, yes, comics are a visual medium. A good artist can make
> the crappiest story almost bearable. Hell, I picked up Motormouth from
> Marvel UK just because Gary Frank is a damn fine artist. Conversely (and
Uhm, I picked up the first three issues of Motormouth. Gary Frank is a
great artist, but I thought the story was pretty ok! I sure as heck
had a great laugh at the issues. :)
> Brian Hance bha...@primenet.com
--
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warr...@jmu.edu ! Rachel Warren / Paul Smith and Alan Davis Groupie
warr...@cs.jmu.edu ! http://sys12.cs.jmu.edu/homes/warrenrk/index.html
rkwa...@pen.k12.va.us ! IRS: They got what it takes to take what you got.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
ClayMill
>Jacquelyn St...@ix.net writes:
>> 1. There must be a story to a story. A plot. A beginning, a middle,
>> an end. Even without scripting evident, *somebody* has to write the
>> story. Otherwise, there is no story.
>
>A plot and story are two different things. What I mean is when I say
>write Im talking about some guy filling in the captions and word
>balloons.
IOW, a scripter. No, comics do not need a scripter. But a comic
does need a story, and a story must have been written by somebody.
(And by "written" I mean planned, conceived of, formulated ... not
literally written down on paper.)
Basically, comics are stories told by art, and usually words.
The story is essential. The art is essential. The words aren't.
Is everybody in agreement, here? If so, can we drop this?
Dave Miller
Jacquelyn Schnoop
In <4spb2h$5...@doc.jmu.edu> warr...@falcon.jmu.edu (Rachel K. Warren)
writes:
>Brian Hance (bha...@primenet.com) wrote:
>> Christian Michael Viola <cv...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>
>> >Jacquelyn Sch...@ix.net writes:
>
>> This is because, yes, comics are a visual medium. A good artist can
make
>> the crappiest story almost bearable. Hell, I picked up Motormouth
from
>> Marvel UK just because Gary Frank is a damn fine artist. Conversely
(and
>
>
interested in making the crappiest stories bearable. I'm interested in
good stories, utilizing both good art and good writing. I've never
read Motormouth. I'm not sure who you're quoting, but it's not me.
Jackie
Brian Hance
tea...@ix.netcom.com(Jacquelyn Schnoop) wrote:
>Excuse me. I didn't write the statement attributed to me. I'm not
>interested in making the crappiest stories bearable. I'm interested in
>good stories, utilizing both good art and good writing. I've never
>read Motormouth. I'm not sure who you're quoting, but it's not me.
>Jackie
My bad.
Please except my apology. Cascades make my head hurt. :)
DWilli8823
>Jacquelyn St...@ix.net writes:
>> 1. There must be a story to a story. A plot. A beginning, a middle,
>> an end. Even without scripting evident, *somebody* has to write the
>> story. Otherwise, there is no story.
>
>A plot and story are two different things. What I mean is when I say
>write Im talking about some guy filling in the captions and word
>balloons. A comic can do very well without such things. An artist can
>make a comic very easily without such things. Hence, as long as you got
>a artist who has a story to tell thats all you need, a clown to fill in
>word balloons is unneeded.
>
I'm sorry Christian, but your wrong. You are confusing story with
dialogue. I have seen several good comics with no dialogue, most notably
Sin City:Silent Night. It had no words but still told an amazing story.
There was a writer.
>> 2. I don't buy posters or t-shirts for the story. I buy a book for
>> the story; comic books and novels both fit the description of book.
>
>Were not talking about novels, were talking about comics. Without
>pictures, just words you have a NOVEL not a COMIC BOOK, without words
>you can have a COMIC BOOK--do you understand yet or do I have to use 1
>syllable words?
>
>> 3. Yes, I'll grant that comic books are a visual media. However, I
>> still want a story. I have no desire to *read* unrelated artwork that
>> does *not* tell a story.
>
>I agree, but you dont need a writer just a plotter (different things).
>
A plotter IS a writer. What he does is WRITE a plot. I challenge you to
name one comic book, preferably good, without a writer. As you always say,
back it up with proof.
<SNIP>
>> 5. No superstar writers who aren't artist/writers? I beg to differ.
>> Correct me if I'm mistaken, but Kurt Busiek doesn't seem to capitalize
>> on his artwork. He tells a good story. Many other writers have
>> certainly made it to the designation of *Superstar*. He's just one
>> example.
>
>No he's not. kurt is by no stretch of the imagination a superstar. I
>know that somebody out there is probably thinkin "uh oh nows the
>pro-basher is goin after kurt" Really i'm not, i have alot of respect
>for kurt. But as far as talent and status go, i have many questions
>about him, as do any reasonable comic fan (would anybody really put him
>in PAD's league as a regular story superhero scribe??) Although I hear
>kurt is gonna get his big break shortly as he writes the first Image
>crossover mini (GOOD LUCK KURT!).
>
I would think that Marvel letting you have your own series with one of
their top characters retconning continuity and headlining their new, risky
99 cent line qualifies you as a superstar. Why isn't UTOS regular
superhero stuff? It's Spidey swinging around fighting super villiams isn't
it? Can't get more regular than that. And it's one of the most critically
aclaimed books of the 90's as was Marvels and as is Astro City. Plus he
also got to do the origin of Shadowhawk. And you have to be a pretty big
name before Image would let you do their first company wide crossover.
Face it, he's a superstar. As is Neil Gaiman, who isn't an artist.
And it still is not intended to be a flame. I look forward to your
response.
-David