What's Worse Than Marvel Continuity?
STRATEGY
Star Trek - Their continuity glitches are more like plot holes, they
seem to try and do their best at least. Better than Marvel.
DC - Don't read enough, are they worse than Marvel.
Godzilla - Marvel continuity doesn't seem so bad compared to the
Godzilla multi-verse.
STRATEGY
Jack Bohn
>Overall I mean, not just this point in time.
>
>Godzilla - Marvel continuity doesn't seem so bad compared to the
>Godzilla multi-verse.
How about Robotech? Made from three different Japanese cartoon
series, the English adaptation tweaked to make it seem to be
three different generations of the same future, but not quite
papering over ALL the cracks. A fourth movie was inserted into
the timeline, but later retracted. A "sequel" series (again,
actually inserted into the timeline of the original series) was
begun to actually have animation MADE FOR IT. The storylines of
this series are now disavowed to allow for a different sequel
Coming Soon Now...
(And you can add that one of the series from which it was
frankensteined, Macross, has itself generated a set of sequels in
Japan, one of which is now disavowed in favor of the other...)
--
-Jack
Paul O'Neill
"STRATEGY" <Strat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159110437.0...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Highlander.
'nuff said.
Dan McEwen
news:1159110437.0...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
> Overall I mean, not just this point in time.
>
> Star Trek - Their continuity glitches are more like plot holes, they
> seem to try and do their best at least. Better than Marvel.
I don't read it.
> DC - Don't read enough, are they worse than Marvel.
At this point in time, no one has any idea of what is or is not true.
Continuity has been stated to have retroactively undergone changes, but
we don't know what those changes are. I think that's worse than
anything Marvel has done. Marvel just does piecework; DC says "here's a
new universe that may or may not be like the one you were reading about
last month". You decide.
> Godzilla - Marvel continuity doesn't seem so bad compared to the
> Godzilla multi-verse.
But are they trying to have a continuity or just make stories that
feature Godzilla? There's a difference.
--
"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain
occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive." --Thomas Jefferson
"How far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying
to defend from without?" --Dwight D. Eisenhower
Mikel Midnight
STRATEGY <Strat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> DC - Don't read enough, are they worse than Marvel.
DC has no continuity at the moment, so asking whether it's worse than
Marvel's continuity doesn't make much sense. 8)
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
Mikel Midnight
"You will die, sir, either on the gallows or from the
pox." (John Montagu, fourth Earl of Sandwich)
"That depends, sir, on whether I embrace your principles
or your mistress." (John Wilkes, sometime friend of his
and rakish member of the aristocracy)
blak...@blaklion.best.vwh.net
_______________________________________http://blaklion.best.vwh.net/comics.html
bar...@shentel.net
Mikel Midnight wrote:
> In article <1159110437.0...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> STRATEGY <Strat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > DC - Don't read enough, are they worse than Marvel.
>
> DC has no continuity at the moment, so asking whether it's worse than
> Marvel's continuity doesn't make much sense. 8)
I pretty much agree. Right now DC's main concern is characterization
and keeping that consistent.
JLB
Paul O'Brien
STRATEGY <Strat...@gmail.com> writes
>
>DC - Don't read enough, are they worse than Marvel.
Yes. DC continuity has been total chaos for 20 years, ever since CRISIS
when they announced that everything had happened in the same timeline,
failed to work out what that actually MEANT, and then left a bunch of
writers to improvise it without properly co-ordinating them. DC
continuity is, unfortunately, a textbook example of how to fuck
everything up on a huge scale. They passed the point several years ago
where the concept of "DC continuity" arguably ceased to be meaningful.
I'd add, by the way, that there's nothing necessarily WRONG with having
a very relaxed attitude to continuity. But you have to be clear about
it. Marvel's problem is that they've trained their audience to accept
certain principles, they still claim to adhere to them, but over the
last few years they've often flagrantly ignored them, and then had the
nerve to complain when readers object.
Look, if you don't want to play by the traditional rules, abandon them.
If you don't think the audience would stand for that, take the fucking
hint and obey the rules. It's not hard.
--
Paul O'Brien
THE X-AXIS - http://www.thexaxis.com
IF DESTROYED - http://ifdestroyed.blogspot.com
NINTH ART - http://www.ninthart.com
Marc-Oliver Frisch
: Look, if you don't want to play by the traditional rules, abandon them.
: If you don't think the audience would stand for that, take the fucking
: hint and obey the rules. It's not hard.
But why should they, really? So far, their strategy doesn't seem to be
hurting them in terms of sales, and the Brevoort and Alonso schools of
thought appear to be perfectly fine co-existing with each other right now.
Explicitly committing to one approach or the other would probably be
detrimental, at this stage.
--
Marc-Oliver Frisch
POPP'D! >> http://poppd.blogspot.com
COMIKADO << http://comikado.blogspot.com
SUPERCRITICAL >> http://supercritic.blogspot.com
God is in my iPod, and he sends me tracks through shuffle.
--
[This is a Usenet message, posted to the rec.arts.comics.* groups.]
Graves
Marc-Oliver Frisch wrote:
> Paul O'Brien wrote:
>
> : Look, if you don't want to play by the traditional rules, abandon them.
> : If you don't think the audience would stand for that, take the fucking
> : hint and obey the rules. It's not hard.
>
> But why should they, really? So far, their strategy doesn't seem to be
> hurting them in terms of sales, and the Brevoort and Alonso schools of
> thought appear to be perfectly fine co-existing with each other right now.
> Explicitly committing to one approach or the other would probably be
> detrimental, at this stage.
>
> --
for me? i just want to be clear on which approach you see each editor
taking. thanx!
Junior-kun
Marc-Oliver Frisch
: would you be able to define the Brevoort vs. Alonso schools of thought
: for me? i just want to be clear on which approach you see each editor
: taking. thanx!
Tom Brevoort and Axel Alonso are the two senior editors in charge of most of
the major Marvel Universe titles. In a nutshell, Alonso generally doesn't
worry much about continuity at all, while Brevoort takes care to maintain it
whenever possible without compromising a story.
Both approaches have their flaws, certainly. In Alonso's case, you
occasionally end up with garbled nonsense like Hudlin's BLACK PANTHER, which
uses the commonly known disadvantages of a shared universe as an excuse to
make no sense at all; in Brevoort's case, you occasionally end up with books
like AVENGERS FOREVER, which are hugely attractive and satisfying to people
who are very familiar with and very interested in a certain corner of Marvel
continuity, but are virtually impenetrable to anyone else.
But those are exceptions, really. Mostly, I think they've managed keeping
things cohesive and accessible at the same time pretty well over the last
several years.
--
Marcovaldo
news:1159110437.0...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
James Bond continuity. I mean, every few years, the guy just becomes young
again. Looks different too.
Dan McEwen
news:1159132887....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>
> Mikel Midnight wrote:
>> In article <1159110437.0...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>> STRATEGY <Strat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > DC - Don't read enough, are they worse than Marvel.
>>
>> DC has no continuity at the moment, so asking whether it's worse than
>> Marvel's continuity doesn't make much sense. 8)
>
> I pretty much agree. Right now DC's main concern is characterization
> and keeping that consistent.
But that begs the question: consistent with what? Certainly not what
came before because, as you know, we have no idea what came before.
Anim8rFSK
<JFFRg.215875$5i3.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Marcovaldo" <Marco...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
And now everything that ever happened never happened, except he's still
got his most recent boss, who, last we saw her, it had all happened
under or before. Sigh.
Ken from Chicago
"Paul O'Neill" <new...@lazyeyedpsycho.cjb dot net> wrote in message
news:4no31jF...@individual.net...
The tv series was great. It only changed one thing from the movie.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Mikel Midnight" <blak...@best.outdamnspam.com> wrote in message
news:240920061303556371%blak...@best.outdamnspam.com...
> In article <1159110437.0...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> STRATEGY <Strat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> DC - Don't read enough, are they worse than Marvel.
>
> DC has no continuity at the moment, so asking whether it's worse than
> Marvel's continuity doesn't make much sense. 8)
Nothing is better than happiness.
A ham sandwich is better than nothing.
Ergo a ham sandwich is better than happiness.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
<bar...@shentel.net> wrote in message
news:1159132887....@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
> Mikel Midnight wrote:
>> In article <1159110437.0...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
>> STRATEGY <Strat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > DC - Don't read enough, are they worse than Marvel.
>>
>> DC has no continuity at the moment, so asking whether it's worse than
>> Marvel's continuity doesn't make much sense. 8)
>
> I pretty much agree. Right now DC's main concern is characterization
> and keeping that consistent.
>
> JLB
50 quatloos they blow that within 2 years. 25 quatloos within 12 months.
-- Ken from TriskeChicago
Ken from Chicago
"Paul O'Brien" <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:PX50ikIu...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...
Dr. Reset to the rescue!
You have cyclical resets and publishers get to keep their characters while
trying different versions of familiar stories. Once you learn to accept
cyclical hyper-continuity, it all makes sense.
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.comics.dc.universe/msg/a86eb7ede7316dba?hl=en&
-- Ken from Chicago (who's learned to love the reboot)
P.S. You KNOW in a decade they're gonna reboot Ultimate Marvel.
Ken from Chicago
"Marc-Oliver Frisch" <Dersc...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ef77ou$it9$1...@online.de...
Cyclical universes are the only long-term answer for publishers and fans.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Marcovaldo" <Marco...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:JFFRg.215875$5i3.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Except for his supporting characters.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Anim8rFSK" <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ANIM8Rfsk-560AB...@news.west.cox.net...
Never say ever again.
-- Ken from Chicago
yusaku...@dca.net
> Cyclical universes are the only long-term answer for publishers
> and fans.
The question then becomes "How long does the cycle last?" In Marvel, it
seems that the cycle actually runs every 3 to 5 years on one level,
sometimes even shorter than that. On another level, the same ideas are
tried every 10 years or so (NEW MUTANTS=GENERATION X=new NEW MUTANTS/ACADEMY
X/new NEW X-MEN...). I get the feeling that we're headed for a pre-CoIE DC
style crack-up here, especially when we now get the Ultimate Marvel-verse
and the Adventures Marvel-verse, among other things.
--
Yusaku Jon III
http://members.dca.net/yusaku-jon-3/
Ken from Chicago
<yusaku...@dca.net> wrote in message
news:9465b$4517c8a0$d00056a9$12...@dcanet.allthenewsgroups.com...
A decade.
Marvel Universe is only about 7 years old semi-officially.
DC had Crisis in the 80s, Zero Hour in the 90s and IC in the 00s.
-- Ken from Chicago
yusaku...@dca.net
> "STRATEGY" wrote <snip>
>
> > DC - Don't read enough, are they worse than Marvel.
>
> At this point in time, no one has any idea of what is or is
> not true.
Probably won't be possible any more. Unless the editors and creative staff
on a particular story arc says it is. And even then, only for that
particular case.
> Continuity has been stated to have retroactively undergone
> changes, but we don't know what those changes are. I think
> that's worse than anything Marvel has done.
Actualy, I think Marvel's not that far off from it. We have the
Ultimate-verse. We have the Adventures-verse (basically retreads of old
Silver Age Marvel stories using new creative teams working from the old
plots). There's also what's left of the Max line, and "Mayday" Parker just
got her second second wind over in the remnants of the MC2 universe. I'm
wondering if MARY JANE LOVES SPIDER-MAN would count as another new
continuity.
> Marvel just does piecework; DC says "here's a new universe
> that may or may not be like the one you were reading about
> last month". You decide.
In some ways, it seems like I'm reading about the same, angsty universe with
psychotic villains. But since I've never followed any DC outside of the
Wolfman/Perez TEEN TITANS and Walter Simonson's ORION, I have nothing much
to back it up on other than what I read about the other comics. Supes was
getting kind of angsty, Bats was just plain paranoid and nasty and Wonder
Woman seemed to be getting in touch with her roots more or less. That was
the impression that I was getting over the past decade or so.
> > Godzilla - Marvel continuity doesn't seem so bad compared
> > to the Godzilla multi-verse.
>
> But are they trying to have a continuity or just make stories
> that feature Godzilla? There's a difference.
It kind of works that way in Japan. Take a series called "Mobile Suit
Gundam", for instance. About giant robots before there was a "Robotech" or
the Transformers, the original aired in 1978 and got a revival as a movie
trilogy in 1983. Then in 1985 and 1986, respectively, they returned to the
same characters (plus some new ones) for a continuation of the story,
culminating in a 1987 movie subtitled "Char's Counterattack". After that,
the focus shifted a few times to completely different unverses with one or
two "returns" to the original, but all new series featured a Gundam robot as
the main weapon used by the protagonists. Now they have at least two
universes (original Gudam and Gundam Wing) and a number of minor ones (G
Gudam, Gundam-X, Gundam Seed, etc, etc...).
Basically, when you get an ongoing franchise like the above, there are
scores of different means of keeping it alive. Sometimes it works,
sometimes not.
yusaku...@dca.net
> STRATEGY wrote:
>
> >Overall I mean, not just this point in time.
> >
> >Godzilla - Marvel continuity doesn't seem so bad compared to
> > the Godzilla multi-verse.
>
> How about Robotech?
Ah, yes. That was the big thing about RT. Three series which would've
stood well on their own had it not been for syndication rules at the time
requiring 65 episodes at minimum. I remember the second ("Southern Cross")
segment actually being my favorite of the three in spite of its brevity (it
was actually cancelled about 25 episodes into its original Japanese run and
had the rushed ending to wrap things up) and the fact that Carl Macek did
the heaviest rewriting there ("Robotech Masters" coming to retrieve their
protoculture matrix from the ruins of the SDF-1 on Earth, instead of Zor
returning to revive themselves with a sentient form of plantlife native to
the devastated world that humans colonized). I was a Protoculture Addict
for those 10 years, following the series and collecting all of "Jack
McKinney's" RT novels including the Sentinels series and "End of the
Circle". Those were a trip.
Now, the whole thing is being swept under the rug for the "Shadow Force"
direct-to-DVD project. And probably not a bad idea, given how McKinney
started waxing mystical towards the end of his adaptation. Except that the
interest in RT has waned in light of the growing anime and manga market and
the fact that these aren't being rewritten for the most part.
Lynley
wrote:
Just watched the remastered boxset and I can't see many continuity
glitches, any examples.
The biggest example I can remember has to do with Robotech: The Movie,
which was actually a remixed Megazone 23. This seemed to have the
Robotech Masters landing on Earth before the second series, the Dana
Sterling series, when they EDF has no idea who they are when they
attack in that show.
Other than that, the Robotech: Sentinels film/aborted show is somehow
being worked into the new movie which seems to take place after the
completion of the third series.
Lynley
Anim8rFSK
Paul O'Neill
"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:RtOdnUntfsZ4OYrY...@comcast.com...
The ending?
I loved the TV series, but saw it before I saw the movies. I then sought out
the movies, and was absolutely dumb-founded. Highlander 2 is probably the
worst sequel to a movie ever made.
Paul O'Neill
Nah, Felix's appearance is explained by the fact he's a master of disguise.
That's how he's looked different in each movie.
Now, he's mid-fifties, about 230 pounds, and goes by the name of "Wade"
Anim8rFSK
And has both legs back because NONE OF THE OTHER BOND MOVIES EVER
HAPPENED.
Dan McEwen
news:RtOdnUntfsZ4OYrY...@comcast.com:
A significant thing, but that was obviously necessary in order for the
show to work. However, the movies didn't work together at all. Giving
them sequential numbering made no sense because each movie seemed to
have nothing to do with whatever one came out last. In fact, that's
even true of the next one that's supposed to be coming out this year.
Dan McEwen
>>> Highlander.
>> The tv series was great. It only changed one thing from the movie.
>
> The ending?
>
> I loved the TV series, but saw it before I saw the movies. I then
> sought out the movies, and was absolutely dumb-founded. Highlander 2
> is probably the worst sequel to a movie ever made.
Yeah, I once told a friend of mine - also a big Highlander fan - that he
was forbidden to see that movie or know anything about it. I felt it
was that bad and ruined the original movie's ending.
Dan McEwen
news:91fa1$4517ccf8$d00056a9$12...@dcanet.allthenewsgroups.com:
> On 24-Sep-2006, Dan McEwen wrote:
>
>> "STRATEGY" wrote <snip>
>>
>> > DC - Don't read enough, are they worse than Marvel.
>>
>> At this point in time, no one has any idea of what is or is
>> not true.
>
> Probably won't be possible any more. Unless the editors and creative
> staff on a particular story arc says it is. And even then, only for
> that particular case.
>
>> Continuity has been stated to have retroactively undergone
>> changes, but we don't know what those changes are. I think
>> that's worse than anything Marvel has done.
>
> Actualy, I think Marvel's not that far off from it. We have the
> Ultimate-verse. We have the Adventures-verse (basically retreads of
> old Silver Age Marvel stories using new creative teams working from
> the old plots). There's also what's left of the Max line, and
> "Mayday" Parker just got her second second wind over in the remnants
> of the MC2 universe. I'm wondering if MARY JANE LOVES SPIDER-MAN
> would count as another new continuity.
The difference is that Marvel tells you that the Ultimates are one
continuity, the Adventures are another continuity, and MC2 is a third
continuity. You may get confused on that, but Marvel has a clear-cut
difference in them all. DC, in contrast, says that there's one
continuity, except that they don't actually have one.
Ken from Chicago
"Paul O'Neill" <new...@lazyeyedpsycho.cjb dot net> wrote in message
>
> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:RtOdnUntfsZ4OYrY...@comcast.com...
>>
>> "Paul O'Neill" <new...@lazyeyedpsycho.cjb dot net> wrote in message
>> news:4no31jF...@individual.net...
>>>
>>> "STRATEGY" <Strat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1159110437.0...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Overall I mean, not just this point in time.
>>>>
>>>> Star Trek - Their continuity glitches are more like plot holes, they
>>>> seem to try and do their best at least. Better than Marvel.
>>>>
>>>> DC - Don't read enough, are they worse than Marvel.
>>>>
>>>> Godzilla - Marvel continuity doesn't seem so bad compared to the
>>>> Godzilla multi-verse.
>>>
>>> Highlander.
>>>
>>> 'nuff said.
>>>
>>
>> The tv series was great. It only changed one thing from the movie.
>
> The ending?
Yep.
> I loved the TV series, but saw it before I saw the movies. I then sought
> out
Same here.
> the movies, and was absolutely dumb-founded. Highlander 2 is probably the
> worst sequel to a movie ever made.
Wait, "movies"? plural? What are you talking about?
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Dan McEwen" <ferr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4nqnqtF...@individual.net...
> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:RtOdnUntfsZ4OYrY...@comcast.com:
>
>> "Paul O'Neill" <new...@lazyeyedpsycho.cjb dot net> wrote in message
>> news:4no31jF...@individual.net...
>>>
>>> "STRATEGY" <Strat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1159110437.0...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Overall I mean, not just this point in time.
>>>>
>>>> Star Trek - Their continuity glitches are more like plot holes, they
>>>> seem to try and do their best at least. Better than Marvel.
>>>>
>>>> DC - Don't read enough, are they worse than Marvel.
>>>>
>>>> Godzilla - Marvel continuity doesn't seem so bad compared to the
>>>> Godzilla multi-verse.
>>>
>>> Highlander.
>>>
>>> 'nuff said.
>>>
>>
>> The tv series was great. It only changed one thing from the movie.
>
> A significant thing, but that was obviously necessary in order for the
> show to work. However, the movies didn't work together at all. Giving
> them sequential numbering made no sense because each movie seemed to
> have nothing to do with whatever one came out last. In fact, that's
> even true of the next one that's supposed to be coming out this year.
They are planning a second movie?
-- Ken from Chicago
Marcovaldo
news:EcSdnXFug4rR-4XY...@comcast.com...
According to IMDB, there have been 3 sequels.
Highlander II: The Quickening (1991)
Highlander III: The Sorcerer (1994)
Highlander: Endgame (2000)
And another movie, Highlander: The Raven, which seems to have no connection
to the others, save for the title.
Anim8rFSK
"Marcovaldo" <Marco...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
I think Ken was kidding, as in 'He's disavowed the sequels' or 'there
can be only one' -- sort of like we'd disavow Buffy after season 5 if
they'd made any, which they of course didn't.
>
> Highlander II: The Quickening (1991)
> Highlander III: The Sorcerer (1994)
> Highlander: Endgame (2000)
The question is, does Ken acknowledge the alternate versions?
>
> And another movie, Highlander: The Raven, which seems to have no connection
> to the others, save for the title.
Highlander The Raven was a TV spin off series from the Highlander TV
series, featuring a female immortal that was a friend of McCloud.
Marcovaldo
>> >
>> > -- Ken from Chicago
>>
>> According to IMDB, there have been 3 sequels.
>
> I think Ken was kidding, as in 'He's disavowed the sequels' or 'there
> can be only one' -- sort of like we'd disavow Buffy after season 5 if
> they'd made any, which they of course didn't.
Ah. I thought perhaps he couldn't stand bagpipe music.
Anim8rFSK
<lB2Sg.222997$5i3.2...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Marcovaldo" <Marco...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
hee hee
Jack Bohn
>On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 14:51:13 -0400, Jack Bohn <jack...@bright.net>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>How about Robotech? Made from three different Japanese cartoon
>>series, the English adaptation tweaked to make it seem to be
>>three different generations of the same future, but not quite
>>papering over ALL the cracks. A fourth movie was inserted into
>>the timeline, but later retracted.
>
>Just watched the remastered boxset and I can't see many continuity
>glitches, any examples.
I've been stalled out in the middle of Southern Cross for a
while. It looked so much like something I'd like, with the
ancillary material showing heralding emblems for each division of
the military, and the first shot being a group in armor looking
very like knights. But then we go to this blonde ditz that's in
the military with evidently no idea of military behavior...
Just this week, though, I've been pointed to an audio commentary
on the New Generation episode "Enter Marlene" (#70)
http://www.terrania.us/journal/2006/09/mp3-commentary-track-for-robotech.html
So I bumped that up in the rotation.
Two things he mentions are Rand's psychic impressions, which are
a holdover from something dropped from the Japanese, and the
swirling controversy of a Late Return or Early Return for the
Robotech Expeditionary Force, which results in different years in
which the New Generation would take place.
--
-Jack
Ken from Chicago
Liar! There can be only one!
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
They gave her a hideous looking short bleach blond hairdo--well worse than
ALL PREVIOUS hairstyles she had ... just like they gave Janeway a hideous
butt-ugly hairdo instead of the great simple hairdo she had on the cover of
TV GUIDE or gave Troi during the first season of TNG after great hairdo she
had in the pilot "Encounter at Farpoint".
Wait, I mean what series? There was only one.
-- Ken from the high land (well, technically built over a swamp) of Chicago
Ken from Chicago
I like bagpipe music--well, usually for dirges or ballads.
-- Ken from Chicago
Tue Sorensen
> "Paul O'Neill" <new...@lazyeyedpsycho.cjb dot net> wrote in message
> news:4nqe5kF...@individual.net...
> > worst sequel to a movie ever made.
>
> Wait, "movies"? plural? What are you talking about?
>
> -- Ken from Chicago
Wait, "TV-series"? There was never a proper Highlander TV-series. What
are you talking about?
- Tue
Tue Sorensen
> > Highlander The Raven was a TV spin off series from the Highlander TV
> > series, featuring a female immortal that was a friend of McCloud.
>
> They gave her a hideous looking short bleach blond hairdo--well worse than
> ALL PREVIOUS hairstyles she had ... just like they gave Janeway a hideous
> butt-ugly hairdo instead of the great simple hairdo she had on the cover of
> TV GUIDE or gave Troi during the first season of TNG after great hairdo she
> had in the pilot "Encounter at Farpoint".
On those points we actually agree. Elizabeth Gracen is totally hot,
*except* with the look they gave her in the Raven series. The main
series was only remotely watchable in the last couple of seasons, where
she was a regular. With black hair.
> Wait, I mean what series? There was only one.
Only one movie. No series.
Highlander can ONLY be done right with Connor winning the Prize as the
last immortal in 1986. All other stories must take place in THE PAST.
The richly historied past. This is the only way. Incl. the only way to
justify that Connor should still be the main character. Highlander is
not Highlander without Connor being the central character. Yeah, so you
know he'll always win. That doesn't mean you can't do great stories. I
know. I've invested considerable time in coming up with such stories,
which preserve the essential coolness of the concept and the
characters. One day... one day!!
- Tue
Tue Sorensen
> Cyclical universes are the only long-term answer for publishers and fans.
>
> -- Ken from Chicago
Either that, or intelligent competent supervision. But of course,
conditions for the combination of those three words have never been
good anywhere. And pretty non-existent at post-1991 Marvel.
- Tue
Dan McEwen
>>> The tv series was great. It only changed one thing from the movie.
>>
>> A significant thing, but that was obviously necessary in order for
>> the show to work. However, the movies didn't work together at all.
>> Giving them sequential numbering made no sense because each movie
>> seemed to have nothing to do with whatever one came out last. In
>> fact, that's even true of the next one that's supposed to be coming
>> out this year.
>
> They are planning a second movie?
Fifth, I think. It's supposed to be Duncan, Methos, and someone else or
other seeking their source. We're supposed to find out where they came
for and what their purpose is. I'm guessing it invalidates Highlander 2
completely.
Dan McEwen
news:9D1Sg.115600$QM6....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
That was another tv series, not a movie. It featured Amanda, who was in
many episodes of the Highlander series. I saw a few episodes but it
wasn't interesting to me.
Anim8rFSK
Yeah, let's name this chick 'Raven' and then make her canary yellow.
THERE'S a plan.
Highlander: Lemon
She goes down in history as being the only one of Clinton's bimbos that
was attractive.
Anim8rFSK
"Tue Sorensen" <soren...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ken from Chicago wrote:
> > > Highlander The Raven was a TV spin off series from the Highlander TV
> > > series, featuring a female immortal that was a friend of McCloud.
> >
> > They gave her a hideous looking short bleach blond hairdo--well worse than
> > ALL PREVIOUS hairstyles she had ... just like they gave Janeway a hideous
> > butt-ugly hairdo instead of the great simple hairdo she had on the cover of
> > TV GUIDE or gave Troi during the first season of TNG after great hairdo she
> > had in the pilot "Encounter at Farpoint".
>
> On those points we actually agree. Elizabeth Gracen is totally hot,
> *except* with the look they gave her in the Raven series. The main
> series was only remotely watchable in the last couple of seasons, where
> she was a regular. With black hair.
And all those awful spin off pilot try out eps in the last year. Bleah.
>
> > Wait, I mean what series? There was only one.
>
> Only one movie. No series.
>
> Highlander can ONLY be done right with Connor winning the Prize as the
> last immortal in 1986.
huh? But Connor sacrificed himself so Duncan could win. I saw it!
Paul O'Neill
>
> "Paul O'Neill" <new...@lazyeyedpsycho.cjb dot net> wrote in message
> news:4nqe5kF...@individual.net...
>>
>> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:RtOdnUntfsZ4OYrY...@comcast.com...
>>>
>>> "Paul O'Neill" <new...@lazyeyedpsycho.cjb dot net> wrote in message
>>> news:4no31jF...@individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> "STRATEGY" <Strat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1159110437.0...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> Overall I mean, not just this point in time.
>>>>>
>>>>> Star Trek - Their continuity glitches are more like plot holes, they
>>>>> seem to try and do their best at least. Better than Marvel.
>>>>>
>>>>> DC - Don't read enough, are they worse than Marvel.
>>>>>
>>>>> Godzilla - Marvel continuity doesn't seem so bad compared to the
>>>>> Godzilla multi-verse.
>>>>
>>>> Highlander.
>>>>
>>>> 'nuff said.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The tv series was great. It only changed one thing from the movie.
>>
>> The ending?
>
> Yep.
>
>> I loved the TV series, but saw it before I saw the movies. I then sought
>> out
>
> Same here.
I still can't believe they killed Tessa.
>> the movies, and was absolutely dumb-founded. Highlander 2 is probably the
>> worst sequel to a movie ever made.
>
> Wait, "movies"? plural? What are you talking about?
Highlander and Highlander 3.
At least Highlander 3 retcons Connor being the last immortal, making it (a
teeny bit) closer to the show.
Paul O'Neill
> "Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote in
> news:EcSdnXFug4rR-4XY...@comcast.com:
>
>>>> The tv series was great. It only changed one thing from the movie.
>>>
>>> A significant thing, but that was obviously necessary in order for
>>> the show to work. However, the movies didn't work together at all.
>>> Giving them sequential numbering made no sense because each movie
>>> seemed to have nothing to do with whatever one came out last. In
>>> fact, that's even true of the next one that's supposed to be coming
>>> out this year.
>>
>> They are planning a second movie?
>
> Fifth, I think. It's supposed to be Duncan, Methos, and someone else or
> other seeking their source. We're supposed to find out where they came
> for and what their purpose is. I'm guessing it invalidates Highlander 2
> completely.
Oh no! But then H2 won't fit into the continuity at all!!
Lynley
>"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote in
>news:RtOdnUntfsZ4OYrY...@comcast.com:
>
>> "Paul O'Neill" <new...@lazyeyedpsycho.cjb dot net> wrote in message
>> news:4no31jF...@individual.net...
>>>
>>> "STRATEGY" <Strat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1159110437.0...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Overall I mean, not just this point in time.
>>>>
>>>> Star Trek - Their continuity glitches are more like plot holes, they
>>>> seem to try and do their best at least. Better than Marvel.
>>>>
>>>> DC - Don't read enough, are they worse than Marvel.
>>>>
>>>> Godzilla - Marvel continuity doesn't seem so bad compared to the
>>>> Godzilla multi-verse.
>>>
>>> Highlander.
>>>
>>> 'nuff said.
>>>
>>
>> The tv series was great. It only changed one thing from the movie.
>
>A significant thing, but that was obviously necessary in order for the
>show to work. However, the movies didn't work together at all. Giving
>them sequential numbering made no sense because each movie seemed to
>have nothing to do with whatever one came out last. In fact, that's
>even true of the next one that's supposed to be coming out this year.
There's another one? Haven't heard a thing about it. And 4 rehashed
a storyline from the series. In the show Duncan was being goaded by
Methos to kill Methos in order to defeat a big, bad villian which he
ended up not doing IIRC. IN the film Connor goaded Duncan into
killing Connor to defeat the big, bad villian which he duly did.
Lynley
Lynley
Explain how he still has legs, 'cause it was him chewed up by sharks
in Licence to Kill wasn't it?
Lynley
Lynley
And Highlander 4. Only good thing, Donnie Yen. Bad thing he's on
screen for about five minutes.
Lynley
Lynley
IIRC that was another TV show featuring a character introduced in the
first. Wasn't bad, had a pretty good looking female lead.
Lynley
Lynley
>"Ken from Chicago" <kwicker1...@comcast.net> wrote in
>news:EcSdnXFug4rR-4XY...@comcast.com:
>
>>>> The tv series was great. It only changed one thing from the movie.
>>>
>>> A significant thing, but that was obviously necessary in order for
>>> the show to work. However, the movies didn't work together at all.
>>> Giving them sequential numbering made no sense because each movie
>>> seemed to have nothing to do with whatever one came out last. In
>>> fact, that's even true of the next one that's supposed to be coming
>>> out this year.
>>
>> They are planning a second movie?
>
>Fifth, I think. It's supposed to be Duncan, Methos, and someone else or
>other seeking their source. We're supposed to find out where they came
>for and what their purpose is. I'm guessing it invalidates Highlander 2
>completely.
Highlander 2? I always thought that the producers couldn't count and
just skipped to 3 ;OP
Lynley
Lynley
wrote:
Must check that out. I generally don't listen to commentaries. Rush
through Southern Cross, I never really liked it, except for the cool
idea of transforming tanks. To me New Generation is still the best.
The whole love story in The Macross Saga irritated me to no end
especially that complete waste of time Lin Min Mei.
Lynley
Lynley
wrote:
Then you are gonna hate the new comic series. They are somehow
incorporating all the films and series into it and setting it after
1986, which is when the first film took place IIRC. Wonder how the
hell they are gonna explain Connor not having the Magician's powers.
For those that don't know that's Mario van Peebles villian from the
third film.
I always wondered why they felt the need to follow a sequential
timeline with the sequels when they had the whole of history to play
with.
Lynley
Paul O'Neill
"Lynley" <lynley...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5knih25mltph47vi6...@4ax.com...
Easy. I was being sarcastic.
I don't think him and Wade are the same person, either.
Tue Sorensen
What are you basing that on? I heard they're going by the firts movie
only, and then introducing some new elements of their own (incl. Connor
not having won the Prize, so it's easy to get the new concepts mixed up
with the sequels and TV series).
> I always wondered why they felt the need to follow a sequential
> timeline with the sequels when they had the whole of history to play
> with.
Exactomondo. It's because they have no imagination.
- Tue
Dan McEwen
news:p3oih2l1ojbrdi0lf...@4ax.com:
>>Fifth, I think. It's supposed to be Duncan, Methos, and someone else
>>or other seeking their source. We're supposed to find out where they
>>came for and what their purpose is. I'm guessing it invalidates
>>Highlander 2 completely.
>
> Highlander 2? I always thought that the producers couldn't count and
> just skipped to 3 ;OP
Maybe. Even 4 didn't have a number. I think 5 is called "Highlander:
The Source". Maybe they noticed what everyone else saw.
Marcovaldo
>>> I think Ken was kidding, as in 'He's disavowed the sequels' or 'there
>>> can be only one' -- sort of like we'd disavow Buffy after season 5 if
>>> they'd made any, which they of course didn't.
>>
>> Ah. I thought perhaps he couldn't stand bagpipe music.
>
> I like bagpipe music--well, usually for dirges or ballads.
Good point. Rock and Roll bagpipe just doesn't make it.
Lynley
wrote:
The interview I read at Newsarama with the writer stated that it was
taking place within the whole continuity including the series. He
goes on to say that he's a big fan and that Duncan etc will be showing
up. Maybe he's working from the angle that the battle with teh Kurgen
wasn't the final battle, but then that will contradict the film and
the whole bit about it revolving around the Gathering.
When I read, I interpreted it to mean that pretty much everything
we've seen happened as we saw it and it's canon.
Lynley
Ian Merrithew
> Overall I mean, not just this point in time.
Transformers is pretty bad. There's the original animated series, the
Marvel comic, the UK comic, Beast Wars & Beast Machines, the Dreamwave
comics - which had several different continuities amongst them, from what
I understand - various new animated series, and now a movie coming.
And to top it off, the original series had a future setting in the year
2005.
--
Ian Merrithew - ADM Systems Engineering
ian.merrithew "at" ieee.org
Robotech_Master
> How about Robotech?
Anime continuities in general are something of a mess. You can blame
this on the fact that it seems like the Japanese often just plain
don't care. There's Macross, where they first made a TV series, then
made a cinematic movie that was a completely different retelling of
part of that series. They didn't have any grand rationale for it at
the time; they just had the budget to make a cinematic movie and
compressed and changed the story to fit.
Then Big West, who owned the rights in Japan, decided they wanted a
Macross sequel, and commissioned Macross II, which was made without
any input or involvement of Studio Nue, Macross's original
creator--and it was made as a sequel to the Macross *movie's* version
of continuity, presumably because a movie was easier for people to see
to "catch up" than a 36-episode TV series. Subsequently, when Studio
Nue got back into making authorized Macross sequels, not only did they
retcon Macross II out of existence, they retconned the Macross *movie*
into being a "docudrama" within the Macross TV show universe!
In fact, lots of Japanese shows spin off different continuities.
The Ghost in the Shell manga is different from the movies is different
from Stand Alone Complex. God only knows how many Tenchi Muyo
universes there are.
You want screwed up continuity? Look at Transformers.
Originally, Transformers was two separate Japanese transforming robot
toy lines (part of the boom in transforming robot clones inspired by
the success of Macross), which weren't selling very well and left the
Japanese toy companies with warehouses full of overstocked toys. So
they sold them all off to Hasbro, who invented an entirely new toy
line around them. (One imagines both Hasbro and the Japanese toy
company execs snickering behind their backs at each other, confident
that they just put one over on the other poor fools who had no idea
what they'd bought or given away.) At the time, the notion of
creating animated TV series as toy commercials was fairly new, but
Hasbro jumped on the idea, commissioning an anime studio to do the
first couple of seasons of the show for them. The show was seen both
in America and in Japan (as the Japanese toy company didn't want to
waste an anime TV show), and to their startlement, the Transformers
toy line suddenly took off in Japan, too.
From the very beginning there were three different Transformers
continuities: the Marvel comic book, the TV show, and the file cards
written on the back of the toys, all of which had points of similarity
but weren't identical. (And let's not even get into the fact that one
of the Transformers toys was a Macross Valkyrie, which subsequently
had to be redesigned for both the comic book and animation due to
Macross getting picked up for Robotech.)
Then Hasbro lost interest in Transformers after the popularity fizzled
with their 4th "season" miniseries, with the Headmasters and
Targetmasters in it...but the Japanese toy company Hasbro was
partnered with, Takara, had the Japanese studio that had been
animating the show keep right on animating it, replacing Transformers:
the Movie (which due to release delays had never been seen in Japan)
with a different OAV, Scramble City, to explain Optimus's death and
Rodimus's elevation, and then making three more yearly TV series:
Headmasters, Masterforce, and Victory, each one moving a little
farther away from the American version of things. Then they produced
an OAV, Zone, which fizzled and was finished as a manga, and
Transformers' popularity died down in Japan, too.
Then 10 years later the Americans produced Beast Wars, and Takara, at
first pooh-poohing it due to the spectacular failure of Transformers
Generation II (the original TV show with annoying CGI gimmickery
added), subsequently imported it and redubbed it for viewing in Japan
(changing characterization substantially on some of the characters,
including changing the gender of one of them!), and then produced a
cell-animated sequel, Beast Wars II, followed by several more
traditional transforming cars toy lines as interest suddenly boomed in
Transformers again in Japan.
Subsequently, in a spectacular display of irony, the American
companies immediately stopped producing Transformers shows of their
own, and started dubbing Japanese shows for display over here. I
haven't kept up with them but I know that Car Robots at least had no
place in the original TF continuity; I'm not sure whether subsequent
ones tried to or not.
And then we have the forthcoming live-action movie, which is yet
ANOTHER reboot...
--
Chris Meadows aka | Homepage: http://www.terrania.us
Robotech_Master |
robo...@eyrie.org | Earn a free iPod and a free Mac Mini!
| http://www.terrania.us/conga.html
Robotech_Master
<yusaku...@dca.net> wrote:
> Ah, yes. That was the big thing about RT. Three series which would've
> stood well on their own had it not been for syndication rules at the time
> requiring 65 episodes at minimum.
The funny thing is that of those three series, only one of them had
any real popularity to it. The others achieved only mediocre success
at best. It can be argued that the storyline that Macek's team of
writers came up with to interweave the stories actually was a
stronger, more epic storyline than any of the three alone. It was
greater than the sum of its parts, as it were.
> I remember the second ("Southern Cross") segment actually being my
> favorite of the three in spite of its brevity (it was actually
> cancelled about 25 episodes into its original Japanese run and had
> the rushed ending to wrap things up) and the fact that Carl Macek
> did the heaviest rewriting there ("Robotech Masters" coming to
> retrieve their protoculture matrix from the ruins of the SDF-1 on
> Earth, instead of Zor returning to revive themselves with a
> sentient form of plantlife native to the devastated world that
> humans colonized).
In fact, Macross and Mospeada were left largely alone, but Southern
Cross was sliced and diced as well as redubbed, rewritten and put back
together out of order as the glue that stuck the other two segments
together. Again, some would argue that its revision for Robotech was
an improvement overall; after all, the original story was mediocre
enough that even given the "Super Dimensional" name it was cancelled
ahead of time, something that almost never happened to Japanese TV
series in that era.
> I was a Protoculture Addict for those 10 years, following the
> series and collecting all of "Jack McKinney's" RT novels including
> the Sentinels series and "End of the Circle". Those were a trip.
I had 'em myself. The pair that made up the McKinney pseudonym were
great writers, and no stranger to adapting other properties (Brian
Daley is best known in his own name for his Han Solo trilogy and
writing the radio drama adaptations of the Star Wars films). The
problem was that the huge amount of fan-translated material that's
available for the series now wasn't around back then, so they had to
make do with guesswork and TV episodes. In particular, they invented
thought control as a way to explain how Robotech mecha were piloted
(which wasn't necessary, and in fact contradicted the TV series), and
made transformation some sort of mystical, magical process, like
liquid metal morphing, instead of the purely mechanical process it
was. Feh. They also invented the "Shapings," a metaphysical
equivalent of the Force, whereupon protoculture actually controlled
the universe, as well as being a mecha fuel source. I can sort of see
why they would want to do it--Robotech as Greek tragedy needs its deus
ex machina--but still wish they hadn't, as it tends to minimalize the
contributions of the human players in the drama.
> Now, the whole thing is being swept under the rug for the "Shadow
> Force" direct-to-DVD project.
I wouldn't say the *whole* thing. As you can see from the _Prelude to
the Shadow Chronicles_ comics, the broad strokes of the Sentinels are
assumed to have happened in some form. They did have all this
existing story material; the idea was to harvest what they could use
from it while not being constrained by it. Exactly what form events
took isn't clear yet, but it presumably will be made clear sooner or
later.
> And probably not a bad idea, given how McKinney started waxing
> mystical towards the end of his adaptation.
If you thought McKinney was bad, you should take a look at the
original plot outline for the Sentinels series in Robotech Art III
sometime. It was written by Carl Macek, and involved some remarkably
hackneyed and unrealistic elements, such as a psychic battle between
Rick Hunter and T.R. Edwards. McKinney's and the Waltrips' treatments
were actually an improvement, though there's only so far something
like that can be improved.
> Except that the interest in RT has waned in light of the growing
> anime and manga market and the fact that these aren't being
> rewritten for the most part.
Well, there's still a substantial crowd of people out there who are
nostalgic for the show they remember. And if they can make it look
cool enough, they might be able to draw a larger audience.
Just to note, the movie isn't direct-to-video anymore; they've pushed
the release date back in anticipation of a wider, though limited,
theatrical run in digital theaters. It's already screened at a number
of film festivals, including Cannes, and is screening at several more.
It's appearing in Chicago this weekend, St. Louis in October; for the
complete list see robotech.com.
Paul O'Neill
Yeah. I remember the ill-fated M.C. Taggart, and his bagpipe hip-hop act.
Didn't quite take off.
Robotech_Master
> Just watched the remastered boxset and I can't see many continuity
> glitches, any examples.
Oh, there are a number of them, but you have to pay attention to the
little details to pick them up. They were introduced by the fact that
Robotech was written and dubbed in record time--a total of 4 months
for the entire thing--and they didn't have the best documentation on
the original timeline so there are some date displays that are
flat-out contradictory in later parts of Macross.
> The biggest example I can remember has to do with Robotech: The
> Movie, which was actually a remixed Megazone 23. This seemed to
> have the Robotech Masters landing on Earth before the second
> series, the Dana Sterling series, when they EDF has no idea who
> they are when they attack in that show.
Which is why Robotech: The Movie is officially non-canon. (Well, it's
Canon in the sense that it was distributed by Canon Films, but...oh,
you know what I mean.) *Originally* the movie was supposed to be the
story of the government cover-up of what happened to the SDF-1 on the
way back to earth, which was the reason why Gloval wasn't allowed to
disembark his passengers--but Canon demanded rewrites, more action,
less girls, and Big West didn't want them using any Macross material
because it might have interfered with marketing the Macross movie to
America. So Carl created a new storyline set during the Robotech
Masters war, so he'd have an excuse to splice hovertank combat into
it.
> Other than that, the Robotech: Sentinels film/aborted show is somehow
> being worked into the new movie which seems to take place after the
> completion of the third series.
Well, it's been relegated to "secondary continuity," which means that
it's okay as long as it doesn't contradict something fully established
in the show, but if the show contradicts it, it takes precedence.
Vic Vega
I think we have a winner. My head hurts just from reading that, dude.
Personally, I only ever got as far as the season after the American
Transformers move (Season 3?).
Robotech_Master
> But then we go to this blonde ditz that's in the military with
> evidently no idea of military behavior...
Blame Top Gun and Blue Thunder. Maverick pilots were the 'in' thing
back then. :)
> Just this week, though, I've been pointed to an audio commentary on
> the New Generation episode "Enter Marlene" (#70)
> http://www.terrania.us/journal/2006/09/mp3-commentary-track-for-robotech.html
> So I bumped that up in the rotation.
Thanks for the mention. Happened onto this thread whilst
ego-surfing. :)
> Two things he mentions are Rand's psychic impressions, which are a
> holdover from something dropped from the Japanese,
Indeed. There's this badly-literally-translated story in the liner
notes of the Mospeada DVD set that's really fun to read.
(Incidentally, both the Mospeada and Southern Cross remastered
subtitled DVD sets are for sale at RightStuf.com for $25 each--that's
about 1/3 of their list price.)
"The people like me, born after the Inbit's control began, were born
knowing how to concentrate their minds like dolphins are born knowing
how to swim. Even though some are more powerful than others,
everybody has telepathic skills. We accept this ability as something
natural. Once I realized what someone else was thinking even though it
was a rough idea, I started feeling no language barrier. It was so
easy to see someone's lie. For the generation with the telepathic
abilities there's no way to hide anything. We even feel the Inbit's
communications from time to time."
Though I forgot to mention it in the commentary, this is also why Rand
(Ray) and Rook (Houquet) probably aren't as suspicious of Marlene's
(Aisha's) ability to sense the Invid (Inbit) in later episodes; they
might have heard of people with the same abilities in their generation
before.
> and the swirling controversy of a Late Return or Early Return for
> the Robotech Expeditionary Force, which results in different years
> in which the New Generation would take place.
There's just so much in Robotech that's subject to interpretation.
There are little details that would seem to conflict, and the only way
to make it all fit together is to ignore or explain away some of them.
And when two different schools of fandom decide to ignore or explain
away mutually opposed pieces, then you get two different continuities.
Robotech_Master
> Must check that out. I generally don't listen to commentaries. Rush
> through Southern Cross, I never really liked it, except for the cool
> idea of transforming tanks. To me New Generation is still the best.
Hear hear. :)
> The whole love story in The Macross Saga irritated me to no end
> especially that complete waste of time Lin Min Mei.
You said it. (Though Minmei was only partly to blame, really. Lynn
Kyle was a bad influence on her.)
Robotech_Master
> Just this week, though, I've been pointed to an audio commentary
> on the New Generation episode "Enter Marlene" (#70)
> http://www.terrania.us/journal/2006/09/mp3-commentary-track-for-robotech.html
Incidentally, if you like that track, I've been doing some segments
for the weekly "RDF Underground" Robotech/Doctor Who podcast over the
last few months. And I did a commentary for Lupin III: Castle of
Cagliostro that can easily be found by typing "cagliostro commentary"
into Google.
Robotech_Master
> I think we have a winner. My head hurts just from reading that,
> dude. Personally, I only ever got as far as the season after the
> American Transformers move (Season 3?).
There's also the fact that the Transformers comic books and TV shows
often did spectacularly different things with the same toys. The
comic books tended to take the toys much too literally.
Take the case of Pretenders, which were these hollow human(oid)-shaped
plastic toys that you opened up like a Russian doll to reveal a robot
inside that transformed into a vehicle.
In the Transformers comic book, they were these giant human(oid)
shells that enclosed a robot body. The robot could then crack out of
the shell, transform, fight, whatever, and control the shell by remote
as a second fighting body.
The Japanese Transformers animated series Masterforce, Pretenders were
giant Transformers robots who used size-change and disguise abilities
to shrink down into human(oid) bodies, thus "pretending" to be
humans. As to what the comic book version were "pretending" to be, I
have no idea. (Zentraedi, maybe?)
And then there were the Actionmasters, non-transformable super-posable
action figure versions of the humanoid forms of various Transformers.
The comic book featured these by having Transformers who...lost the
ability to transform. (I feel especially sorry for Actionmaster
Devastator.)
Vic Vega
How could I have missed that? Tell me you're joking. Please.
Ken from Chicago
"Tue Sorensen" <soren...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1159274101.3...@m7g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
> Ken from Chicago wrote:
>> "Paul O'Neill" <new...@lazyeyedpsycho.cjb dot net> wrote in message
>> news:4nqe5kF...@individual.net...
>> > the movies, and was absolutely dumb-founded. Highlander 2 is probably
>> > the
>> > worst sequel to a movie ever made.
>>
>> Wait, "movies"? plural? What are you talking about?
>>
>
> Wait, "TV-series"? There was never a proper Highlander TV-series. What
> are you talking about?
>
> - Tue
But there was an improper series that simply omitted Connor gaining the
Prize.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Paul O'Neill" <new...@lazyeyedpsycho.cjb dot net> wrote in message
>>
>> "Paul O'Neill" <new...@lazyeyedpsycho.cjb dot net> wrote in message
>> news:4nqe5kF...@individual.net...
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Paul O'Neill" <new...@lazyeyedpsycho.cjb dot net> wrote in message
>>>>>
>>>>> "STRATEGY" <Strat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:1159110437.0...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> seem to try and do their best at least. Better than Marvel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DC - Don't read enough, are they worse than Marvel.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Godzilla - Marvel continuity doesn't seem so bad compared to the
>>>>>> Godzilla multi-verse.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 'nuff said.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The tv series was great. It only changed one thing from the movie.
>>>
>>
>> Yep.
>>
>>> I loved the TV series, but saw it before I saw the movies. I then sought
>>> out
>>
>> Same here.
>
> I still can't believe they killed Tessa.
That was stupid, tho I did like the good doctor, Anne, who later became a
Companion Protector / Rebel / Spy and hooked up with an alien, having its
baby.
>>> the movies, and was absolutely dumb-founded. Highlander 2 is probably
>>> the worst sequel to a movie ever made.
>>
>> Wait, "movies"? plural? What are you talking about?
>
> Highlander and Highlander 3.
>
> At least Highlander 3 retcons Connor being the last immortal, making it (a
> teeny bit) closer to the show.
Lalalalalalalaalalalalalalalalalalala! I can't here you.
-- Oh So Mature Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Paul O'Neill" <new...@lazyeyedpsycho.cjb dot net> wrote in message
RFOL!
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Paul O'Neill" <new...@lazyeyedpsycho.cjb dot net> wrote in message
news:4nt93tF...@individual.net...
Steve Austin's legs were blown up in a rocket crash and he has legs!
-- Ken from Chicago
Anim8rFSK
Lynley <lynley...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Lynley
But none of that ever happened. Casino Royale disavows every Bond movie
every made.
Robotech_Master
> But none of that ever happened. Casino Royale disavows every Bond
> movie every made.
They must have been captured.
Jack Bohn
>On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 06:29:17 -0400, Jack Bohn <jack...@bright.net> wrote:
>
>> Just this week, though, I've been pointed to an audio commentary on
>> the New Generation episode "Enter Marlene" (#70)
>> http://www.terrania.us/journal/2006/09/mp3-commentary-track-for-robotech.html
>> So I bumped that up in the rotation.
>
>Thanks for the mention. Happened onto this thread whilst
>ego-surfing. :)
Heh. Hope you don't mind wading through the discussion of Marvel
Comics. And, uh, Highlander and James Bond.
Incidently, I watched the episode. I thought it might be one of
a group of five including "Annie's Wedding" (THERE's an episode
you can remember from the title!) that I saw waaaay back when it
was on the SciFi channel and I visited my brother for a week.
Turns on that group began with #72, "The Fortress" where -not to
brag about my powers of observation- I had figured Marlene had
something strange about her, so was not surprised by the
narration of her purpose in the beginning of the next episode.
--
-Jack
Robotech_Master
> Turns on that group began with #72, "The Fortress" where -not to
> brag about my powers of observation- I had figured Marlene had
> something strange about her, so was not surprised by the narration
> of her purpose in the beginning of the next episode.
The irony is, in the original Mospeada, she didn't have a purpose, she
was just an accident. That's one of the major elements that I wish
Robotech hadn't fiddled with. There was really no reason for it; her
role would have worked just as well as an accident, better even.
But...you probably heard me explain that in the commentary track. :)
Graves
Marc-Oliver Frisch wrote:
> Graves wrote:
>
> : would you be able to define the Brevoort vs. Alonso schools of thought
> : for me? i just want to be clear on which approach you see each editor
> : taking. thanx!
>
> Tom Brevoort and Axel Alonso are the two senior editors in charge of most of
> the major Marvel Universe titles. In a nutshell, Alonso generally doesn't
> worry much about continuity at all, while Brevoort takes care to maintain it
> whenever possible without compromising a story.
>
> Both approaches have their flaws, certainly. In Alonso's case, you
> occasionally end up with garbled nonsense like Hudlin's BLACK PANTHER, which
> uses the commonly known disadvantages of a shared universe as an excuse to
> make no sense at all; in Brevoort's case, you occasionally end up with books
> like AVENGERS FOREVER, which are hugely attractive and satisfying to people
> who are very familiar with and very interested in a certain corner of Marvel
> continuity, but are virtually impenetrable to anyone else.
>
> But those are exceptions, really. Mostly, I think they've managed keeping
> things cohesive and accessible at the same time pretty well over the last
> several years.
>
thanx!
> --
> Marc-Oliver Frisch
> POPP'D! >> http://poppd.blogspot.com
> COMIKADO << http://comikado.blogspot.com
> SUPERCRITICAL >> http://supercritic.blogspot.com
>
> God is in my iPod, and he sends me tracks through shuffle.
>
> --
> [This is a Usenet message, posted to the rec.arts.comics.* groups.]
Nathan P. Mahney
"Vic Vega" <Mikejo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1159306807.8...@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
It gets worse when you factor in the comic books.
First you get the original Marvel series, which was originally set in the
Marvel Universe, and then not (it's better not to think about it - just
pretend that the TF Universe has its own Spider-Man and SHIELD and Savage
Land...).
Then there was Transformers UK, which took the US storylines and wove
original (and better!) tales around them. It was basically the same
continuity as the US comic, but there were some small differences. Most
notable was that it ignored the Transformers vs. G.I. Joe miniseries (though
it had its own crossover with the UK equivalent Action Force later on). I'm
pretty sure that later on the UK series ran a series of 'Earthforce' back-up
strips that took place in what became an alternate Transformers future, but
I can't be certain about this.
The Marvel franchises wound down, but the license was eventually picked up
by Dreamwave, who rebooted the characters into a new continuity that took
elements from the comics and the cartoons. Alas, they lost the license
mid-way through a whole host of subplots, and the story was never told.
There was also a trilogy of novels that loosely fit into the Dreamwave
continuity, though they contradicted them in a few places.
The license was again picked up by IDW, who rebooted it yet again, and have
it to this day.
- Nathan P. Mahney -
Nathan P. Mahney
AC/DC beg to differ.
Nathan P. Mahney
I'm wondering about the current Highlander comic, written by Mike Oeming.
Does it go with the premise you've outlined above?
Ken from Chicago
The movies are fictional movies in the world of the tv series.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Paul O'Neill" <new...@lazyeyedpsycho.cjb dot net> wrote in message
news:4nt314F...@individual.net...
>
> "Dan McEwen" <ferr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4nsrglF...@individual.net...>> news:EcSdnXFug4rR-4XY...@comcast.com:
>>
>>>>> The tv series was great. It only changed one thing from the movie.
>>>>
>>>> the show to work. However, the movies didn't work together at all.
>>>> Giving them sequential numbering made no sense because each movie
>>>> seemed to have nothing to do with whatever one came out last. In
>>>> fact, that's even true of the next one that's supposed to be coming
>>>> out this year.
>>>
>>> They are planning a second movie?
>>
>> Fifth, I think. It's supposed to be Duncan, Methos, and someone else or
>> other seeking their source. We're supposed to find out where they came
>> for and what their purpose is. I'm guessing it invalidates Highlander 2
>> completely.
>
> Oh no! But then H2 won't fit into the continuity at all!!
>
Paul, don't do anything rash. Put down the sword and walk away.
-- Ken from Chicago
Tue Sorensen
No, it took place in an alternate post-1986 world where the world was
crawling with immortals, and introduced lots of ridiculous elements
like Watchers and child immortals. Puh-leeze!
- Tue
Paul O'Neill
When you're reading one of my posts, a good rule of thumb is to assume I'm
joking.
Paul O'Neill
"Robotech_Master" <robo...@eyrie.org> wrote in message
news:slrnehjjli....@terrania.homelinux.org...
> On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 17:56:03 -0700, Anim8rFSK <ANIM...@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> But none of that ever happened. Casino Royale disavows every Bond
>> movie every made.
>
> They must have been captured.
Lol.
Vic Vega
Fair enough. Although I also thought Matisyahu was a joke initally as
well. Hence my confusion...
Paul O'Neill
(after a quick wikipedia search for Matisyahu)
O...kay...
Is he any good? The hasidic jewish reggae market is a tough nut to crack.
Vic Vega
He's not bad FWIW, but it's a lot like the cat on the little
tricycle...it's not so much that he does it well it's that he's doing
it at all...
Jack Bohn
>There's also the fact that the Transformers comic books and TV shows
>often did spectacularly different things with the same toys. The
>comic books tended to take the toys much too literally.
>
>Take the case of Pretenders, which were these hollow human(oid)-shaped
>plastic toys that you opened up like a Russian doll to reveal a robot
>inside that transformed into a vehicle.
>
>In the Transformers comic book, they were these giant human(oid)
>shells that enclosed a robot body. The robot could then crack out of
>the shell, transform, fight, whatever, and control the shell by remote
>as a second fighting body.
>
>The Japanese Transformers animated series Masterforce, Pretenders were
>giant Transformers robots who used size-change and disguise abilities
>to shrink down into human(oid) bodies, thus "pretending" to be
>humans. As to what the comic book version were "pretending" to be, I
>have no idea. (Zentraedi, maybe?)
>
>And then there were the Actionmasters, non-transformable super-posable
>action figure versions of the humanoid forms of various Transformers.
>The comic book featured these by having Transformers who...lost the
>ability to transform. (I feel especially sorry for Actionmaster
>Devastator.)
One hesitates to think what would happen if Marvel still did
Transformer and Star Wars comics now that Transformers has a Star
Wars line:
http://www.hasbro.com/default.cfm?page=browse&product_id=16993
--
-Jack
Ken from Chicago
No, the movie simply didn't get around to showing the WONDERFUL added
elements such as the Watchers (not to be confused with Buffy's Council of
Watchers), child immortals and ... FEMALE immortals. Ye verily, they are
good.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Paul O'Neill" <new...@lazyeyedpsycho.cjb dot net> wrote in message
That's like me, only I'm using half-joking.
-- Ken from Chicago
Ken from Chicago
"Robotech_Master" <robo...@eyrie.org> wrote in message
news:slrnehjjli....@terrania.homelinux.org...
>
>> But none of that ever happened. Casino Royale disavows every Bond
>> movie every made.
>
> They must have been captured.
That's impossible.
-- Ken from Chicago
Tue Sorensen
> "Tue Sorensen" <soren...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1159274775.1...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > last immortal in 1986. All other stories must take place in THE PAST.
> > The richly historied past. This is the only way. Incl. the only way to
> > justify that Connor should still be the main character. Highlander is
> > not Highlander without Connor being the central character. Yeah, so you
> > know he'll always win. That doesn't mean you can't do great stories. I
> > know. I've invested considerable time in coming up with such stories,
> > which preserve the essential coolness of the concept and the
> > characters. One day... one day!!
>
> I'm wondering about the current Highlander comic, written by Mike Oeming.
> Does it go with the premise you've outlined above?
>
> - Nathan P. Mahney -
I've just read the #0. It takes place right after the first movie, in
1986, but with notable changes. Connor has not won the Prize, he is not
the last immortal left, and the Kurgan had a human cult of followers
who's apparently still hunting Connor.
It's much like about ten minutes of an episode of the TV series, only
with Connor starring instead of Duncan. This is not a very good comic,
and I doubt if any dyed-in-the-wool Highlander fans will take a liking
to it. It's got all the hallmarks of a half-hearted effort: It's not
terribly well drawn. The dialog does not ring true to Connor's
character. The decompressed story has virtually no details of any
interesting kind, nor are the general situations of anything remotely
approaching a similar coolness to the original movie. So this comic is
a bust. Another in a long line of examples of how to mismanage a good
franchise.
Why do they keep wanting to get a lot of mortals involved? Cults and
organizations... apparently they just don't have any interesting
stories to tell about the actually immortal main characters that
everything about this entire concept should revolve around. Just
typical.
To maintain the coolness of the original movie, Highlander stories have
to be very intense, personal and emotional. Strong on characterization,
not just action. Obviously, Davis-Panzer Productions Inc. have zero
understanding of this. Gah.
The Highlander universe is incredibly rich. There are still so many
unanswered questions, and so many ways to interpret the various
elements. Great potential for great stories and utter coolness. Sigh.
- Tue