An EDITORIAL COMMENT...
ComicsRus
EDITORIAL COMMENT: There is a company that is grading comics and putting them
in sealed plastic containers. You pay for this service. If and when you sell
the comic book, you'll add your cost of this appraisal to your comic. That cash
goes directly to the owners of this company. The owners are involved in the
distribution of comic books, and even the price guides. If you feel the comic
book market is being manipulated, it probably is. If you enjoy comics, read
them. Smell them. Touch them. Don't pay someone to put it in an air-tight
container. The hobby started when 5 million kids enjoyed reading Superman and
Batman every month. When it stops being fun, it just stops....
http://members.aol.com/ComicsRus/Connection.html
Powerpop18
book market is being manipulated, it probably is. >>
Absolutley right! Since when do 2 collectors (or a seller and buyer) need a
third party to mediate between them. This takes alot of the fun out of this
hobby. -the interaction activity....and now I have to pay someone for me to
buy, sell or trade.
I've read posts of a similar third party company getting one person's
merchandise (baseball card) and substituting a lesser grade for it.
This whole thing stinks. Thanks, but no thanks.
mike_and_beth
Thanks
Confused
Ncg8or wrote in message <19991021200814...@ng-fr1.aol.com>...
>Yep, it's called the "Comics Guaranty Corporation" and I hope it fails
>miserably b/c as you state, it's simply going to add more $ to a hobby
that's
>already too pricey. I've yet to really see any adds or people putting this
>stuff on ebay, but you know it's inevitable...and sad :(. Look for the big
NY
>dealers to "unveil" these pre-graded/sealed comics in the next few months,
and
>hold on...hopefully it won't ruin our hobby.
Planet 10
I have a guy who buys from me on a regular basis at my show,and on some
of the newer stuff,I've seen him roll it up and put it in his back
pocket!!
now that's a comic fan!!
I remember doing that as a kid,but I also remember beating the crap out
of my little brother for bending the covers back on my comics as I got
older =)
These are meant to be read too!
My .02
George
Planet 10 Productions
www.planetten.com
Planet 10 auctions:
http://cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&userid=plan...@webtv.net
Ncg8or
The Rodman
Here's one more concern with this new "service": One of the graders
for the CGC has been selling books on eBay. In a recent discussion on
the eBay comics chat board, the general consensus was that this
individual has exhibited a pattern of overgrading his books by about a
full grade on average if I recall correctly. If I'm sending a high
price book to the CGC to be graded accurately for a fee, do I really
want this individual or any other individual whose grading skills are
questionable to be grading my book where even a small difference of a
half grade can mean hundreds of dollars or more? Of course, if he has a
tendency to overgrade, then maybe I do. But then the flip side is if I
want to buy a slabbed book that has been certified by the CGC from a
seller, how can I be sure that the book hasn't been overgraded by the
individual in question or anyone else at the CGC for that matter?
--The Rodman
bungeye5
Maybe the books should be encased in opaque plastic so as to keep light off
'em :)
comics
I've been grading them since the time I bought them at a
news-stand from the OLD wire racks and compared
FF# 17 to the FF# 17 in the middle of the stack.
I've been seriously grading them since I went to Cons
to find the X-Men #14 I'd missed and paid $10.00
for it.
I know how to read a book (Overstreet's Grading Guide)
I really DON'T need to have someone else grade my comics,
and PAY them to do it.
I want to look through the old Amazing Spider-Man #14 before I
buy it.
A comic has considerably more "sides" than a coin or a card!
I will NOT use them to grade my books, and I won't buy from someone
that has been USED by them (pay more for their service in
the price being raised).
IF someone can't grade a book on their own, you're in the
wrong hobby!
Thanks and Spater, Rob
SgtFury1
<< A comic has considerably more "sides" than a coin or a card! >>
This is the best (and, IMHO, most succinctly stated) argument against
"certified" comics.
Certification, or third party grading, is very prevalent in coin collecting.
The most successful, and at the same time most respected AND most reviled, coin
grading company is PCGS (Professional Coin Grading Service). It became popular
when the market was at an all time high (late '80s) and is predicated on the
nitpickiest grading scale you could imagine. Coins are graded on a 70 point
numerical scale called the Sheldon Scale (after its creator) with uncirculated
(or "Mint State") coins ranging from MS-60 to MS-70. A *single point*
difference in grade can mean a difference of THOUSANDS of dollars in price on a
high end coin.
I believe Mr. Overstreet would love such a phenomenon to catch on in comics.
And I wouldn't be surprised if he and his associates are trying very hard to
make it happen. The 100 point Overstreet scale (which didn't even exist a few
years ago when comics were graded either Good, Fine, or Mint -- Near Mint for
those realistic enough to know a true Mint comic is rare if it even exists)
could help facilitate this. The Overstreet guide lists top "values" for NM94.
So, heck, there are six more grade points for which the price could be inflated
by MULTIPLES of the NM94 price.
I think (and would certainly hope) that, especially since the comic market is
not all that strong, the whole certification thing as it pertains to comics
will go down in flames -- if for no other reason than the fact that there ARE
more "sides" to a comic than a coin or card. It has become commonplace for PCGS
coins to command a premium simply because they are enclosed in a "slab" with
their company name and concensus opinion of the coin's grade (even though the
prevailing wisdom is SAID to be "buy the coin, not the slab"). This has hurt
numismatics in a couple of ways: First, it discourages the collector from
learning how to grade his/her own coins because there is a false sense of
security in having a "professional" grader assign a grade. Second, it opens the
door for a novice to be scammed if and when a slabbed coin is overgraded ("Hey,
PCGS sez it's MS-66. Why should I let YOU have it for the MS-65 price?") and,
yes, it happens. I've read several accounts of a coin being submitted to PCGS a
few times and getting a different grade each time (or submitted to other
grading services and getting a different grade from each one).
We comic collectors "don' need no steeeenking slabs."
Karl C. Popp
Steve Parker
> Hmmm,.. I've been collecting comics for over 38 years.
>
> I've been grading them since the time I bought them at a
> news-stand from the OLD wire racks and compared
> FF# 17 to the FF# 17 in the middle of the stack.
>
> I've been seriously grading them since I went to Cons
> to find the X-Men #14 I'd missed and paid $10.00
> for it.
>
> I know how to read a book (Overstreet's Grading Guide)
>
> I really DON'T need to have someone else grade my comics,
> and PAY them to do it.
>
> I want to look through the old Amazing Spider-Man #14 before I
> buy it.
>
> A comic has considerably more "sides" than a coin or a card!
>
> I will NOT use them to grade my books, and I won't buy from someone
> that has been USED by them (pay more for their service in
> the price being raised).
>
> IF someone can't grade a book on their own, you're in the
> wrong hobby!
>
> Thanks and Spater, Rob
I'm not for a grading service for comics because I buy for reading not
investment. As Karl so eloquently stated third party grading does have its
place in coin collecting because there are many factors that go into coin
grading such as luster, eye appeal, etc that can vary from person to person.
Only on high end books that are bought for investment, not reading, could
I see it being useful. As for the interior of the book, qualifiers similar
to those used for card grading could be placed on the slab describing any
missing pages, coupons or tanning. You'd just have to have faith in the
grading service to describe the book right.
Steve Parker
Ncg8or
see it being useful. As for the interior of the book, qualifiers similar to
those used for card grading could be placed on the slab describing any missing
pages, coupons or tanning. You'd just have to have faith in the grading service
to describe the book right.
Steve Parker"
This is the whole problem though, isn't it, not being able to open and look at
a "slabbed" comic? Without being able to check the interior of a comic, who's
to say it's not missing pages, coupons, writing, etc.,. For investment
grade/price books, a missing page, panel, or writing on a coupon could be the
equivalent of a *single point* difference in grade (in coins terms) and make
the book worth thousands less. What happens if the buyer wants to open the
slab, doesn't agree with the grading qualifiers about the interior, and decides
not to purchase the book? What if they decide not to open it, but 10 years
later decide to sell it, the future buyer opens it and discovers the defect?
The original buyer gets burned...
This whole post sounds like it's coming from a wolf in sheeps clothing - this
service isn't targetting fan boys or "readers", it's targeting investors and
seems to be a direct response to the big mail order dealers losing big $ (both
the opportunity to buy collections as well as sell at inflated prices) to
internet sales (and ebay in particular). Also, I don't believe Karl was
advocating "..third party grading does have its place in coin collecting
because there are many factors that go into coin grading such as luster, eye
appeal, etc that can vary from person to person..." In fact, he states the
whole certified grading concept has "...hurt numismatics in a couple of
ways:.."
Look who's behind this - Metropolis Comics (and other big city dealers I do
believe). You can bet Metropolis isn't going to pay the "per book" rate (if
anything at all) the rest of us will have to, they can flood the market with
thousand of high priced books (that have been sitting around a warehouse
collecting dust) that suddenly have this "lable" of a CGC grade and are
supposedly more desirable than books which haven't been slabbed/graded. Has
anyone visited their web site lately and seen the 2-3x guide prices they have
for NM books? Now they must feel this will help them justify those prices.
So, are you FOR or AGAINST third party grading?
comics
>
> comics wrote:
>
> > Hmmm,.. I've been collecting comics for over 38 years.
> >
> > Thanks and Spater, Rob
>
> I'm not for a grading service for comics because I buy for reading not investment.
>
I also agree with the buying for reading. BUT,.. if I want to complete
my set of the original Avengers and need #3; here's what I'm going to
do. Do I buy a vg- Avengers #3 for $100 and watch it vary in value
depending on who is grading (advising) the books for that Overstreet
Edition (I've watched the values of the lower grades change radically)
OR do I buy a VF+/NM copy at $300????
I would save up and buy the VF+/NM copy. That way I'm almost
guarenteed at least the 'value' will not vary that much. Also when I
die, my nephews will have all of my early silver age in the best shape I
could get (within reason) and be well on their way when they sell them,
and believe me, I know when I die, that'll be ONE HELL of an auction. I
kinda' wish I could be there to bid <grin>
Spater, Rob
comics
<snip>
Now they must feel this will help them justify those prices.
>
> So, are you FOR or AGAINST third party grading?
AGAINST.
Learn how to do it yourself (another example of the state of our country
today. NOBODY wants to take responsibility for anything,... even
grading their own comics,.... my God,.... <ugh>
Spater, Rob
Rick
bungeye5 <bung...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:7upkik$4ut$1...@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> Maybe the books should be encased in opaque plastic so as to keep light
off
> 'em :)
>
How 'bout a lead-lined container?
Mark Gordon
<rmar...@chipsupply.com> wrote:
How 'bout a hermetically sealed envelope?
--
Thanks for stopping by!
Mark Gordon
*********
"I am convinced digestion is the great secret of life."