From Gerber: A request
Steve Gerber
First, I'm wondering if there's anyone on this newsgroup who's done
any "serious" chatting on IRC? I need some help with the terminology
for a story I'm working on.
Secondly, I'd like to hear what any or all of you thought of NEVADA,
now that the first mini has concluded.
--
Steve Gerber
Visit "Gerber's Alarming World" at
http://members.aol.com/sgerber729
Noxturne
could probably do a search for the terms, and no doubt some kind soul has
posted them somewhere. As to Nevada.
This was my first time ever reading anything by you, and I was stunned by
how fantastic it was. Strange ideas, intricate storylines, believable
characters and sparkling dialogue. It has caused an enormous amount of
arguments on the nature of good and evil between my friends and I, and has
actually got me re-thinking the roles of women as main characters in comics.
Most of my views of women in comics is incredibly pessimistic, being along
the lines of most writers using them as foils for main characters or love
interests or hostages or what have you. Rarely as people, with fully
developed conciousness, beliefs and lives. Most of them are written like
crap, to tell you the uneasy truth. As to the story itself, except for the
occasional adult touches that are unwittingly attached to all Vertigo books,
this could have been printed in a mainstream format. I thought it was
incredible, and incredibly odd. Lots of good ideas, but I wish you'd done
it without a sequel in mind, mostly because I think the last issue was a
little rushed and seemed like more of a set-up book than an actual ending.
In short, I was impressed, and will buy the next mini and am searching for
some back issues of things by you to read. Honestly, it's weird that I
never read a single thing by you in my life, and in fact, (i'm assuming)
other than the Howard the Duck, Defenders and a couple of other Marvel
books, I mostly associated you with the Superman and Batman cartoons.
*shrug* But, this impressed me enough so that, as I said before, I will buy
other things you've put out.
Noxturne
Matthew R. Sheahan
> First, I'm wondering if there's anyone on this newsgroup who's done
> any "serious" chatting on IRC? I need some help with the terminology
> for a story I'm working on.
sorry, i avoid IRC like the hive of scum and villainy that it is. my IRC
vocabulary is "op", "eggdrop", and "netsplit". any less specialized net
terminology you want to know about, just ring; i run an ISP and can't help
but know all manner of minutiae.
> Secondly, I'd like to hear what any or all of you thought of NEVADA,
> now that the first mini has concluded.
pretty neat. it never exactly, y'know, grabbed me and shook me around,
except maybe in the fate of Ogden Locke and its consequences, but i liked
the premises and it was a good read. i'd be happy to see more.
chiaroscuro
Bard Sinister
> Well, actually, *two* requests:
> First, I'm wondering if there's anyone on this newsgroup who's done
> any "serious" chatting on IRC? I need some help with the terminology
> for a story I'm working on.
Not a clue. You might try asking nicely over on the LSH
newsgroup, I know there are some people there who have a regular weekly
IRC chat.
> Secondly, I'd like to hear what any or all of you thought of NEVADA,
> now that the first mini has concluded.
I'm looking forward to the next series already. I sat down
and re-read the whole series earlier this week, and it worked a lot
better as a set. When reading issue-by-issue, I was really rolling
on issues 1-3, but then the heavy shift in location on the next couple
of issues had me off-balance until the end.
I wish I had something more to say than 'I like it, I want more'
but the stuff is so offbeat that I don't know what direction to go with
that thought. 'Brains for Shit' is a strong contender for batshit
weird idea of the year, and competition for that one is really fierce
around Vertigo, what with INVISIBLES and TRANSMETROPOLITAN playing
as well.
Only in vertigo could the concept of a man with a lava lamp for
a head cause deja vue. Ostriches rock.
Anybody have something coherent to add?
Bard Sinister
______________________________________________________________________
I have no affiliation with the comic strip below other than laughing
at it on a regular basis:
http://www.userfriendly.org/
Try it, you'll like it! I swear! Just watch out for the Crud Puppy,
it's dangerous! :-)
Steve Gerber
Sheahan) wrote:
>> Secondly, I'd like to hear what any or all of you thought of NEVADA,
>> now that the first mini has concluded.
>
>pretty neat. it never exactly, y'know, grabbed me and shook me around,
>except maybe in the fate of Ogden Locke and its consequences, but i liked
>the premises and it was a good read. i'd be happy to see more.
Reading that last sentence makes me very happy. I promise: much
grabbing, much shaking in the second mini. It'll be dealing with some
related but very different subject matter.
NYSteve11
Gerber) writes:
>Secondly, I'd like to hear what any or all of you thought of NEVADA,
>now that the first mini has concluded.
Liked it but I want a collection to give to others. Has there been any word of
a tpb?
Steve Wacker
Steve Gerber
<noxt...@ameritech.net> wrote:
>As to Nevada.
>This was my first time ever reading anything by you, and I was stunned by
>how fantastic it was. Strange ideas, intricate storylines, believable
>characters and sparkling dialogue. It has caused an enormous amount of
>arguments on the nature of good and evil between my friends and I, and has
>actually got me re-thinking the roles of women as main characters in comics.
>Most of my views of women in comics is incredibly pessimistic, being along
>the lines of most writers using them as foils for main characters or love
>interests or hostages or what have you. Rarely as people, with fully
>developed conciousness, beliefs and lives. Most of them are written like
>crap, to tell you the uneasy truth.
That's generally been my feeling, too, about female comic book
characters, though there are some exceptions, even among the "foils"
-- Tulip and Ragged Robin come immediately to mind, and, to a somewhat
lesser extent, Spider Jerusalem's two assistants. (It says something,
though, that I can't remember either of their names offhand. Maybe
it's just that Spider's personality overwhelms anything else within a
twenty-mile radius.) In any event, I'm glad that you saw what I was
trying to accomplish with Nevada and enjoyed it.
>As to the story itself, except for the
>occasional adult touches that are unwittingly attached to all Vertigo books,
>this could have been printed in a mainstream format. I thought it was
>incredible, and incredibly odd. Lots of good ideas
Maybe. I didn't want to burden the series, though, with all the
continuity baggage that would come with being part of the DCU. I also
wanted to avoid the arguments that would inevitably have arisen when
it comes time to do the series' first real sex scene.
>but I wish you'd done
>it without a sequel in mind, mostly because I think the last issue was a
>little rushed and seemed like more of a set-up book than an actual ending.
Sorry to hear it struck you that way. The last issue actually look a
_very_ long time to write (and draw), because we were determined that
it give readers an actual _ending_ as well as a jumping-off point for
future miniseries.
>In short, I was impressed, and will buy the next mini and am searching for
>some back issues of things by you to read. Honestly, it's weird that I
>never read a single thing by you in my life, and in fact, (i'm assuming)
>other than the Howard the Duck, Defenders and a couple of other Marvel
>books, I mostly associated you with the Superman and Batman cartoons.
>*shrug* But, this impressed me enough so that, as I said before, I will buy
>other things you've put out.
That _is_ sort of an odd association, considering I only spent about
six months of my life working on the Superman and Batman cartoons.
Glad to hear, though, that you've now "discovered" my work in comics.
JohannaLD
SGe...@pacbell.net (Steve
Gerber) writes:
>Secondly, I'd like to hear what any or all of you thought of NEVADA,
>now that the first mini has concluded.
I'm sure this is terribly bad form, but ... I lost interest because of
the delays in the last issues. Maybe I'm too hung up on the monthly
kick, maybe as I get older I'm unable to remember stuff too much
longer beyond that, or maybe the whole "cosmic consciousness"
stuff isn't my bag, I dunno.
I was also put off just a bit by the fact that Nevada couldn't stay
fully clothed for an entire issue.
Johanna
&rea
> That's generally been my feeling, too, about female comic book
> characters, though there are some exceptions, even among the "foils"
> -- Tulip and Ragged Robin come immediately to mind, and, to a somewhat
> lesser extent, Spider Jerusalem's two assistants. (It says something,
> though, that I can't remember either of their names offhand.
Channon was the first one. Can't remember the new one. Certainly
they both have very defined personalities. That is also why I like(d)
Nevada - I like the personality it's focused around. She seems
very _real_ (for a woman with an ostrich). You get the feeling that
no matter what happened to her, you'd be interested in it, but then
you throw in an interesting story as well - so what's not to like?
A
--
..............sig..............................
The slightest thought had not even begun to
speculate about the merest possibility of
crossing my mind.
Brandon
>
>Secondly, I'd like to hear what any or all of you thought of NEVADA,
>now that the first mini has concluded.
Struck me as being weird for the sake of being weird. Thus I didn't find
it interesting and never got past the first issue. I didn't give a fig
about the character of Neveda, from what I recall, she struck me as
another pissed off female character which is different from most female
characters these days, thus it seems to make her more real, at least to
some. In short nothing grabbed me, made what to read more.
-Brandon
Brandon
>Gerber) wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Secondly, I'd like to hear what any or all of you thought of NEVADA,
>>now that the first mini has concluded.
Oh yeah, you get huge points for coming here and specifically asking for
comments from USENET. It's a nice contrast compared to some creative types
who shun USENET and/or shy away from any criticism coming from it. That
fact that you came here speak volumes to me, and while I didn't care about
the first series, it puts you in a positive light in my mind if I come
across any other stuff of yours.
What was your name again?
-Brandon
Basil D Tsiokos
> Secondly, I'd like to hear what any or all of you thought of NEVADA,
> now that the first mini has concluded.
i enjoyed it, but have a feeling i'd have liked it more if it stuck to the
monthly schedule and was an ongoing series rather than a mini (or series
of minis). perhaps it's something psychological, but the last issue felt
like it came to its conclusion much too quickly even as it set up the next
series - but the biggest problem there is that we have to wait a
relatively long while before the next installment. is there basically no
chance of an ongoing series?
b
Paul O'Brien
writes
>
>Channon was the first one. Can't remember the new one.
Yelena Rossini, isn't it?
Paul O'Brien
pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk, www.tardis.ed.ac.uk/~prob/
Long live the UK music scene.
Steve Gerber
>I was also put off just a bit by the fact that Nevada couldn't stay
>fully clothed for an entire issue.
Define "fully clothed" as the term applies to a Las Vegas showgirl.
<g>
Actually, Johanna, there was only *one* nude scene in all six issues
of NEVADA, and I didn't consider it the least bit gratuitous or
salacious. The rest of the time, Nevada was dressed appropriately for
her profession and for the weather in Vegas.
By the way, I'm truly sorry about the delay on issue #4, but that
issue was only two weeks late -- and the remainder of the run was
simply pushed back on DC's release schedule by those two weeks. (In
other words, there were six weeks between issues 3 and 4, but 4-6 came
out on something very close to a monthly schedule.)
Steve Gerber
<etgi...@swbell.net> wrote:
> I wish I had something more to say than 'I like it, I want more'
>but the stuff is so offbeat that I don't know what direction to go with
>that thought. 'Brains for Shit' is a strong contender for batshit
>weird idea of the year, and competition for that one is really fierce
>around Vertigo, what with INVISIBLES and TRANSMETROPOLITAN playing
>as well.
I'm flattered to be in that company, Bard. Thanks.
Steve Gerber
wrote:
>Struck me as being weird for the sake of being weird. Thus I didn't find
>it interesting and never got past the first issue. I didn't give a fig
>about the character of Neveda, from what I recall, she struck me as
>another pissed off female character which is different from most female
>characters these days, thus it seems to make her more real, at least to
>some. In short nothing grabbed me, made what to read more.
Sorry to hear that, Brandon. Take a glance at the TPB when it comes
out, and see if you still have the same reaction.
Steve Gerber
>Liked it but I want a collection to give to others. Has there been any word of
>a tpb?
There's a TPB in the works now. I don't think a publication date has
been set yet, but it'll be out a month or so before the second mini
hits the stores.
Steve Gerber
wrote:
>Oh yeah, you get huge points for coming here and specifically asking for
>comments from USENET. It's a nice contrast compared to some creative types
>who shun USENET and/or shy away from any criticism coming from it. That
>fact that you came here speak volumes to me, and while I didn't care about
>the first series, it puts you in a positive light in my mind if I come
>across any other stuff of yours.
Well, by my age you've either developed a very thick skin or you've
had the dermis stripped away entirely. Criticism -- particularly the
constructive kind -- doesn't bother me.
>What was your name again?
I dunno. Gerber...Gerbil... something like that.
Steve Gerber
Thanks to all who responded about IRC. Fortunately, I was able to
find a some relevant FAQs on the web that provided a lot of the stuff
I needed. I may be in touch with a couple of you, though, if I run
into any unexpected snags.
For those who were curious: I'm doing research on a story for
Vertigo's HEART THROBS anthology. I've used IRC, but only briefly and
a number of years ago. I needed to refresh my memory about the
terminology, the commands, etc.
Thanks, also, to everyone who's commented on NEVADA. Please feel free
to keep the commentary coming. I'm finding it very interesting.
Strax
wrote:
>Well, actually, *two* requests:
>
>First, I'm wondering if there's anyone on this newsgroup who's done
>any "serious" chatting on IRC? I need some help with the terminology
>for a story I'm working on.
>
I know a good bit about it from my wayward youth, Steve..what do you
need to know?
>Secondly, I'd like to hear what any or all of you thought of NEVADA,
>now that the first mini has concluded.
>
Wife and I both really enjoyed it. Nevada was a lot of fun and we'd
love to see more of her. I really liked the concept of a pet
ostritch...It worked a lot better than I would have thought... Felt
kinda let down that it was only 6 issues. I'd really like to see her
again soon! Bang-up jobs, guys:-)
Strax
-------------------------------------------------------------
You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
I will choose a path that's clear-
I will choose Free Will.
-Neil Peart
Highlander Web Ring http://www.bayou.com/strax
Brian Hance
>In article <360463...@ozemail.com.au>, &rea <te...@ozemail.com.au>
>writes
>>Channon was the first one. Can't remember the new one.
I miss Channon.
>Yelena Rossini, isn't it?
Yup. But considering that Spider can't even remember her name, I
don't think that it's understandable that the readers might forget
also.
---
Brian Hance bha...@primenet.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Sometimes your shallowness is so thorough, it's almost like depth."
Daria Morgendorffer
Karon Flage
>
>
> All I can say is, those metal bra cuplet/nipple covers looked uncomfortable,
> and they kept pushing me out of the story. Why,
> I would ask myself, is this woman fighting cosmic confusion
> dressed in two cups and a loincloth? Why is this costume featured
> so prominently on the covers? What makes this book significantly
> different from, say, JLA lately? And the answers came up, "This
> story isn't for me."
>
> Johanna
But she went straight from the stage to being sucked into the cosmic
ray, of course she was still in costume. At other times in the story
she wore street clothes that were no different from what I see here in
Virginia. I appreciated that her anatomical dimensions were realistic.
Sure she was eye-candy but she had muscle tone and her chest did not
defy gravity.
My main complaint is the last issue felt very rushed. Almost like there
were about eight extra pages that had to be condensed into one. Loved
the ostrich rescue though.
--
Karon Flage karon @ sequentialtart . com
Sequential Tart Comics Webzine http://www.sequentialtart.com
Killing never solves anything, but it keeps people out of your hair
while you think of what to do next.
Steff
ka...@sequentialtart.badspam.com wrote...
> JohannaLD wrote:
> > All I can say is, those metal bra cuplet/nipple covers looked uncomfortable,
> > and they kept pushing me out of the story.
Actually, such things are usually padded. It's getting used to the
adhesive that's the tough part. (Don't ask. Just don't ask.)
> > I would ask myself, is this woman fighting cosmic confusion
> > dressed in two cups and a loincloth?
That I could deal with. I mean, she didn't really have a choice on the
clothing issue, having been sucked into another dimension whilst at work.
The tight clothes she wore when off-duty were fine with me - if I had her
body, I'd walk around dressed like that too. (In fact, I plan to, as
soon as I drop a few more pounds. Ah, to wear cropped t-shirts
again...!) The only thing that gave me a giggle was the gratuitous bra-
shot in issue one, but I can forgive one little panel. Overall, I was
cool with it. And normally I'm disgusted by scantily-clad comic-book
babes.
> I appreciated that her anatomical dimensions were realistic.
YES!! Thank you, Karon.
> My main complaint is the last issue felt very rushed. Almost like there
> were about eight extra pages that had to be condensed into one.
Agreed. It was still good, though.
-- Steff
Editor in Chief steff @ webslayer . net
Sequential Tart Webzine http://www.webslayer.net/steff
http://www.sequentialtart.com
JohannaLD
From: SGe...@pacbell.net (Steve Gerber)
>Define "fully clothed" as the term applies to a Las Vegas showgirl.
><g>
Define "using a character who happens to be a stripper or hooker
(or exotic dancer or ...) as an excuse to draw the same kinds of
costumes superheroines get criticized for". :)
(Yeah, that sentence structure sucks, but I hope the point made it
through.)
>The rest of the time, Nevada was dressed appropriately for
>her profession and for the weather in Vegas.
All I can say is, those metal bra cuplet/nipple covers looked uncomfortable,
and they kept pushing me out of the story. Why,
I would ask myself, is this woman fighting cosmic confusion
Duncan
>
> I'd like to hear what any or all of you thought of NEVADA,
> now that the first mini has concluded.
I thought it was groovy. Definitely one of the best things Vertigo has
done in a while. Only one proviso (for the next one): please, no neat
endings where everyone 'learns' something. Screw that.
Samael
JohannaLD wrote in message <19980920201840...@ng82.aol.com>...
>
>From: SGe...@pacbell.net (Steve Gerber)
>
>>Define "fully clothed" as the term applies to a Las Vegas showgirl.
>><g>
>
>Define "using a character who happens to be a stripper or hooker
>(or exotic dancer or ...) as an excuse to draw the same kinds of
>costumes superheroines get criticized for". :)
Seeing as the original concept comes from a panel in Howard the duck showing
a three way fight between a las vegas dancwer, an ostrich and a table lamp,
I think it's fully justified.
IMHO
IMHO
IMHO
<you can never be too sure>
Samael
Eli Bishop
>now that the first mini has concluded.
I must say something here, because I'm so very very very happy to see
Steve Gerber posting here -- the man who was responsible for many of
the happy moments of my life in the late '70s.
Shamefully, I must admit I read almost none of NEVADA and must now
wait for the TPB and the new series. First it was because I was
really out of it for a long time and just didn't see the thing. Then
I saw an ad or spotted it in a store or something and, amazingly,
didn't get that it was a Gerber book -- despite getting a strong sense
of deja vu from that ostrich and Vegas thing. By the time I flashed
on the name and had the sense to read the last couple issues, I was
pretty far lost, but mighty interested.
I'm also glad to find your Web page with all those interviews, since I
had no idea what you'd been up to all this time besides FOOLKILLER
(which was great).
------------------------------------------------
Eli Bishop el...@conkipplecentric.net
www.concentric.net/~elib
(remove "kipple" from my address to reply)
JohannaLD
From: Karon Flage <ka...@sequentialtart.badspam.com>
>she went straight from the stage to being sucked into the cosmic
>ray, of course she was still in costume. At other times in the story
>she wore street clothes that were no different from what I see here in
>Virginia.
And during part of the story, when she was in a land controlled by
imagination, she was still wearing her costume. Should we assume
that that's what she would choose to fight in, given infinite choices?
As I've said before, it resembled the standard Frederick's of Hollywood
superheroine costuming too much for me to be comfortable with it.
I kept stumbling over it mentally.
>Sure she was eye-candy but she had muscle tone and her chest did not
>defy gravity.
"Sure, she was a sex object, but she was a realistic-looking sex
object." Is that what comics have come to? (Sadly, I believe the
answer is yes.)
Johanna
KingMobUK
>And during part of the story, when she was in a land controlled by
>imagination, she was still wearing her costume. Should we assume
>that that's what she would choose to fight in, given infinite choices?
Sure - why not? Maybe her choice of the Egyptian style and song/dance routine
is a reflection of her imagination. You might as well ask why Ogden Locke
dressed the way he did - surely a nice pair of combats and a flak jacket would
be much more sensible? It's no more ridiculous than Wonderwoman's outfit and
she's supposedly fighting villains in the 'real world'. Maybe Nevada had
more on her mind as regards being a rift warrior in the making to be stopping
to worry about her wardrobe.
>As I've said before, it resembled the standard Frederick's of Hollywood
>superheroine costuming too much for me to be comfortable with it.
>I kept stumbling over it mentally.
Funny that. It was no problem for me at all. At no point did it remind me of
any of the more stereotypical superheroines at all.
>"Sure, she was a sex object, but she was a realistic-looking sex
>object." Is that what comics have come to? (Sadly, I believe the
>answer is yes.)
Did you think she was a sex object???? Funny again - I never had that
impression at all. Reading your post was the first time I actually had to
consider that and I went back, checked the books and - nope - not there as far
as i can see.
Horses for courses I guess.
Bob Heer
>Secondly, I'd like to hear what any or all of you thought of NEVADA,
>now that the first mini has concluded.
I liked it. I thought #4 and #5 sort of dragged a bit, at least reading
it serialized, but #6 was the strongest issue of the set, which really
made up for that. And I'm not just saying that because I show up in the
letter column...
I thought some of the scripting in here was among your best stuff ever (I
loved the "brains for shit" line). The cosmology was suitably wacky
enough, too.
Pretty good art, though I don't think the overly fancy bits in the
colouring served it as well as they should have. I did like most of
Winslade's painted covers a lot (except, of course, the one starring a
bloated corpse).
Is the planned collection going to have the shorts from the Vertigo
christmas specials (there's a Nevada story in this year's upcoming
one, right?)? Is the Nevada story in last year's worth reading (this
question for anyone except Gerber, of course)?
Bob Heer bg...@torfree.net http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/1428
--
It is hard to live in a land where everyone thinks you are as stupid as you
used to be...
--
Bard Sinister
> Is the planned collection going to have the shorts from the Vertigo
> christmas specials (there's a Nevada story in this year's upcoming
> one, right?)? Is the Nevada story in last year's worth reading (this
> question for anyone except Gerber, of course)?
I would say so. It's different- even for NEVADA- but it was
enough to get me to pick up the series itself. A vertigo-cute (if that
makes any sense) story, with a very neat conceit in the art. It doesn't
do much other than introduce you to Nevada and Bolero, though, and you
already know them by now.
Bard Sinister
______________________________________________________________________
I have no affiliation with the comic strip below other than laughing
at it on a regular basis:
http://www.userfriendly.org/
Try it, you'll like it! I swear! Just watch out for the Crud Puppy,
it's dangerous! :-)
Cian O'Connor
controversy everywhere.
JohannaLD wrote:
>
> From: SGe...@pacbell.net (Steve Gerber)
>
> >Define "fully clothed" as the term applies to a Las Vegas showgirl.
> ><g>
>
> Define "using a character who happens to be a stripper or hooker
> (or exotic dancer or ...) as an excuse to draw the same kinds of
> costumes superheroines get criticized for". :)
>
> (Yeah, that sentence structure sucks, but I hope the point made it
> through.)
>
> >The rest of the time, Nevada was dressed appropriately for
> >her profession and for the weather in Vegas.
>
> All I can say is, those metal bra cuplet/nipple covers looked uncomfortable,
> and they kept pushing me out of the story.
Well presumably they're padded. All the ones I've ever seen were (a long
time ago, not worth going into).
> Why,
> I would ask myself, is this woman fighting cosmic confusion
> dressed in two cups and a loincloth?
Well outside her place of work, she wore clothes that seem pretty
typical of what young lasses wear today. I think seeing she was an
exotic dancer, it would be anything other than what she was wearing. And
when she was sucked into another dimension, she hardly had much time to
change.
And she was realistically rendered. Okay she was a babe, but since when
has that been a crime? No hyper-breasts there.
> Why is this costume featured so prominently on the covers? What makes this
> book significantly different from, say, JLA lately?
Lets see. The writing. The story. The fact its not about superheros
fighting. The fact its not set in the DCU. At a guess... In fact what
makes it similar to the JLA?
> And the answers came up, "This story isn't for me."
Well there we concur, if for radically different reasons..
Cian
Cian O'Connor
>
> From: Karon Flage <ka...@sequentialtart.badspam.com>
>
> >she went straight from the stage to being sucked into the cosmic
> >ray, of course she was still in costume. At other times in the story
> >she wore street clothes that were no different from what I see here in
> >Virginia.
>
> imagination, she was still wearing her costume. Should we assume
> that that's what she would choose to fight in, given infinite choices?
Oh blooming 'eck woman, stop looking for controversy where there is
none. Why is it that you and Elaine are always searching for sexism to
be offended by?
Perhaps she didn't realise she could change her costume. Perhaps it
didn't occur to her. Perhaps it didn't seem like the most important
thing in the world to her. Perhaps fighting aliens seemed like work, so
she wore her work clothes. Perhaps she lacks imagination, but wearing
cropped tops didn't seem right if she was facing wierdo aliens.
> As I've said before, it resembled the standard Frederick's of Hollywood
> superheroine costuming too much for me to be comfortable with it.
> I kept stumbling over it mentally.
Sure, whatever.
> >Sure she was eye-candy but she had muscle tone and her chest did not
> >defy gravity.
>
> "Sure, she was a sex object, but she was a realistic-looking sex
> object." Is that what comics have come to? (Sadly, I believe the
> answer is yes.)
Come to? If anything they always have been. And one could make the same
argument about films (how come all heroines are always babes).
But how do you get from eye-candy (presumably meaning "pretty"), to sex
object. I believe its perfectly possible to be pretty and to be a
perfectly intelligent human being. Or would you argue otherwise?
Cian
Kingmob
I'll tell you something, after all this talk I'm really interested in
picking up Nevada and giving it a good looking at.
Saw it on the shelves before and it never interested me...chick on an
ostrich? oookay.
Now I'm thinking otherwise, it's one of the few Vertigo titles I never
gave a go.
I'll pick up issue numero uno tomorrow...to be continued.
Kingmob.
Duncan
>
> JohannaLD wrote:
> >
> > From: Karon Flage <ka...@sequentialtart.badspam.com>
> >
> > >she went straight from the stage to being sucked into the cosmic
> > >ray, of course she was still in costume. At other times in the story
> > >she wore street clothes that were no different from what I see here in
> > >Virginia.
> >
> > And during part of the story, when she was in a land controlled by
> > imagination, she was still wearing her costume. Should we assume
> > that that's what she would choose to fight in, given infinite choices?
>
> Oh blooming 'eck woman, stop looking for controversy where there is
> none. Why is it that you and Elaine are always searching for sexism to
> be offended by?
Not just sexism, Cian. Her right to free speech was being cruelly denied
too etc. etc.
Brandon
<cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com> wrote:
>Well presumably they're padded. All the ones I've ever seen were (a long
>time ago, not worth going into).
Well, I'M curious.
-Brandon
Rellby55
>"Sure, she was a sex object, but she was a realistic-looking sex
>object." Is that what comics have come to? (Sadly, I believe the
>answer is yes.)
>
I didn't see her as a sex object.... and I'm a 20 year old guy!
Cian O'Connor
Only if you can tell me what you did with Damon's body.
lordj...@geocities.com
> SGe...@pacbell.net (Steve
> Gerber) writes:
>
> >Secondly, I'd like to hear what any or all of you thought of NEVADA,
> >now that the first mini has concluded.
>
> I'm sure this is terribly bad form, but ... I lost interest because of
> the delays in the last issues. Maybe I'm too hung up on the monthly
> kick, maybe as I get older I'm unable to remember stuff too much
> longer beyond that, or maybe the whole "cosmic consciousness"
> stuff isn't my bag, I dunno.
Well, if you insist on monthly fixes and drop anything that's ever two
weeks late, you'd have missed out on most of the good comics published in
the last 20 years - going back to the Claremont/Byrne X-Men. Hell, going
back to the Barry Smith Conans - that's almost 30 years. Typically,
quality books end up running late somewhere along the line.
I'll admit that being late with the fourth issue of a six-issue mini is a
bit less forgiveable than, say, the 13th issue of an ongoing series.
Still, quality is worth waiting for. I'm still going to buy Hepcats #13
if/when it ever actually comes out. I followed "Love and Rockets" for
years - and when it was on time that was still a three month wait!
As far as cosmology - I thought it made sense, as much as these things
can. It was comic-book-fun cosmology, IMHO, like Starlin's old stuff, or
even older Lee/Ditko Dr. Strange, rather than DeMatties (spelling?) trying
to reveal the great cosmic truth to us all. I liked it a lot.
> I was also put off just a bit by the fact that Nevada couldn't stay
> fully clothed for an entire issue.
I'm getting really tired of this argument. Nevada was very realistically
portrayed. Yes, she was beautiful. There's nothing wrong with that, is
there? By the standards of beauty within the comics industry, she was
nothing special, because she WAS realistically portrayed. Compare Nevada
to actresses in popular movies. Recently, a movie was made of a novel I
don't remember the title of, because I never read the book or saw the
movie, but the reviewer pointed out that the whole point of the story is
that the main character is insecure about her looks, with some reason,
because she is NOT particularly pretty. So what did they do? Cast a
typical Hollywood beauty-girl (one from Friends or Melrose Place or some
such) and not have her wear a lot of make-up.
Chloris Leachman made a career of playing plain or even ugly women. She
was a Miss America! Hollywood's idea of ugly is a less-than-perfect Miss
America.
So what. That's entertainment. We like looking at attractive people, male
and female, more than unattractive ones. Is that a big deal? I think
what's important is what KIND of character they portray. I think Nevada is
portrayed as a smart, brave, compassionate woman, one I would be proud to
have as a friend. She is not an empty-headed bimbo who goes through life
on her looks.
A female lead does not have to be ugly or wrapped up like an Islamic
housewife, does she? She's a stripper who lives in a desert, for God's
sake!
And yes, she probably DOES imagine herself in her working costume
occasionally. She does that job because she LIKES it. She doesn't feel
exploited - or no more so that she would working any other job. It's
pretty clear that she could find other work if she so desired. She's a
smart cookie, and we've been given hints about a mysterious past that
almost certainly did not include exotic dancing.
In case you can't tell, I liked "Nevada" a lot. I like Nevada a lot. I
hope to see more of her, and of the series.
Please, Steve. If this next mini does well, can we see an ongoing? Maybe
with breaks between the story arcs, as "The Invisibles" is doing, if you
need that to keep from falling behind, but sequential numbering so my
store will just automatically hold it without me having to reorder it all
the time?
--
J. Stephen Bolhafner (Steve)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/9923/index.html
"I could not live without books."
- Thomas Jefferson
Brandon
<cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com> wrote:
>Brandon wrote:
>>
>> In article <36077184...@remove.me.digitivity.com>, Cian O'Connor
>> <cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Well presumably they're padded. All the ones I've ever seen were (a long
>> >time ago, not worth going into).
>>
>> Well, I'M curious.
>
>Only if you can tell me what you did with Damon's body.
Why? Hungry?
-Brandon
Steve Kilbane
> Secondly, I'd like to hear what any or all of you thought of NEVADA,
> now that the first mini has concluded.
Hmm. [Waggles hand] "Fun, but...", I think.
I'm a tpb animal normally, so this is the first I've collected issue by
issue. Read into that what you will.
Started great, could have done without the metaphysical lectures,
and the climax....wasn't, really. I didn't get any feeling that
Nevada had a real problem to overcome in a real way. She just
waded in, then "Hi, Honey, I'm home."
Lots of stuff planted early on (what _is_ Nevada's background?
Are ostriches normally as intelligent as Bolero?), which I hope will
be picked up on later, and it's good to see that after major personal
catastrophe, life _doesn't_ go back to normal for the principles - it
has consequences.
But where'd Bolero go to near the end? Although a great character,
he seems scenery so far (must go back and read it again, since I'm
probably wrong on this).
I thought that the Winter's Edge special was fantastic - funny,
entertaining, surreal, thought-provoking, etc. - and for me,
the mini just didn't reach that pinnacle.
steve
--
<Steve_...@cegelecproj.co.uk> - All opinions are mine alone.
IIS4+Perl5 FAQ: http://www.whitecrow.demon.co.uk/steve/iis4.html
Cian O'Connor
I want to make sure he's dead. You can never be too sure with
super-villans...
Cian
Bradford Chamberlain
Steff writes:
> > > I would ask myself, is this woman fighting cosmic confusion
> > > dressed in two cups and a loincloth?
>
> That I could deal with. I mean, she didn't really have a choice on the
> clothing issue, having been sucked into another dimension whilst at work.
She may not have had a choice, but Gerber obviously did. Keep in mind
that this wasn't a real-life occurrence being documented in comic book
form. The story could've just as easily been written with her sucked
off into another dimension while she was wearing blue jeans and a
baggy sweatshirt.
(not that I had big problems with the series, but I just thought that
"she didn't really have a choice" was a great indication that
disbelief had been completely suspended :)
-Brad
Brandon
br...@rosalyn.cs.washington.edu (Bradford Chamberlain) wrote:
>Steff writes:
>
>> > > I would ask myself, is this woman fighting cosmic confusion
>> > > dressed in two cups and a loincloth?
>>
>> That I could deal with. I mean, she didn't really have a choice on the
>> clothing issue, having been sucked into another dimension whilst at work.
>
>She may not have had a choice, but Gerber obviously did. Keep in mind
>that this wasn't a real-life occurrence being documented in comic book
>form.
You got any proof on that?
-Brandon
Brandon
<cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com> wrote:
He (she? it?) was NOT a super-villan. It was clear example of what happens
when crossbreeding goes bad.
-Brandon
JohannaLD
From: lordj...@geocities.com
>if you insist on monthly fixes and drop anything that's ever two
>weeks late, you'd have missed out on most of the good comics published in
>the last 20 years
Not the ones in TPB. :)
Seriously, I have dropped several series because I found the delays
intolerable. The wonderful thing about this period of time in comics
is that there's so much good stuff out there that I can't read it all.
So if something doesn't come out when promised, I try something else.
>quality books end up running late somewhere along the line.
But they don't have to, and they shouldn't, imo.
Johanna
Steve Gerber
>>
>> From: SGe...@pacbell.net (Steve Gerber)
>>
>> >Define "fully clothed" as the term applies to a Las Vegas showgirl.
>> ><g>
> Define "using a character who happens to be a stripper or hooker
> (or exotic dancer or ...) as an excuse to draw the same kinds of
> costumes superheroines get criticized for". :)
Well, it's an interesting theory, but there was no "excuse" involved.
If you recall, the inspiration for the series came from an old issue
of HOWARD THE DUCK in which three characters (a Las Vegas chorus girl,
an ostrich, and a killer lampshade) were juxtaposed for the sake of
pure nonsense. I explained in the first issue's "Ook" column how the
three came together in a different configuration for the NEVADA
series.
One other thing, Johanna -- Nevada isn't a stripper, a hooker, *or* an
exotic dancer. She's a dancer, period. You saw her act with Bolero
in NEVADA #1. She's wearing exactly the same costume when she leaves
the stage as when she makes her entrance. And nowhere in the series
is it even vaguely *suggested* that she trades sex for money.
I feel obliged to point out one other thing, too. The first time that
Nevada appears in the series (other than on the cover), she's anything
*but* glamorous. She's jogging -- in athletic clothes and running
shoes -- and perspiring like hell. Part of what I was trying to do in
the book was contrast the sensual image she projects onstage with the
reality of her daily life.
When was the last time you saw a superheroine (fully clothed or
otherwise) doing her laundry? Picking up pet poop? Dealing with a
hair disaster? Waking up in a state of bleary-eyed confusion? Etc.?
--
Steve Gerber
Visit "Gerber's Alarming World" at
http://members.aol.com/sgerber729
Steve Gerber
<cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com> wrote:
>> And the answers came up, "This story isn't for me."
>
>Well there we concur, if for radically different reasons..
Sorry to hear that, Cian. What were *your* reasons?
Steve Gerber
Bishop) wrote:
>Shamefully, I must admit I read almost none of NEVADA and must now
>wait for the TPB and the new series.
It happens. You're forgiven. But you don't get that "out" on the
next project -- a four-issue mini called A. BIZARRO that I'm doing for
the folks on the DCU floor -- or the second NEVADA miniseries. Deal?
Steve Gerber
>And during part of the story, when she was in a land controlled by
>imagination, she was still wearing her costume. Should we assume
>that that's what she would choose to fight in, given infinite choices?
A person *accustomed* to infinite choices might choose differently. A
person who barely (no pun intended) *realizes* she has infinite
choices is a very different thing.
>"Sure, she was a sex object, but she was a realistic-looking sex
>object." Is that what comics have come to? (Sadly, I believe the
>answer is yes.)
Oy. No, Johanna. She was sexy but *not* an object. Fortunately for
the propagation of the species (assuming one considers its propagation
fortunate), such a condition is possible in both men and women.
Steve Gerber
>>First, I'm wondering if there's anyone on this newsgroup who's done
>>any "serious" chatting on IRC?
>I know a good bit about it from my wayward youth, Steve..what do you
>need to know?
It was mostly stuff about the command structure. I found a couple of
FAQs that gave me most of the information I needed -- and, actually, I
may wind up simply inventing an online service with its own set of
commands.
>Wife and I both really enjoyed it. Nevada was a lot of fun and we'd
>love to see more of her. I really liked the concept of a pet
>ostritch...It worked a lot better than I would have thought... Felt
>kinda let down that it was only 6 issues. I'd really like to see her
>again soon! Bang-up jobs, guys:-)
Thanks. You *will* see Nevada again, hopefully in the first half of
'99.
Steve Gerber
wrote:
>> JohannaLD wrote:
>> > All I can say is, those metal bra cuplet/nipple covers looked uncomfortable,
>> > and they kept pushing me out of the story.
>
>Actually, such things are usually padded. It's getting used to the
>adhesive that's the tough part. (Don't ask. Just don't ask.)
Not only that, it's highly unlikely that the cuplets are really metal.
They're part of a stage costume, not real armor. I suspect they're
made of some very light material -- plastic or even styrofoam -- and
painted to look metallic.
Steve Gerber
wrote:
>I thought it was groovy. Definitely one of the best things Vertigo has
>done in a while. Only one proviso (for the next one): please, no neat
>endings where everyone 'learns' something. Screw that.
Uh -- no problem, but you'll have to tell me who learned what at the
end of NEVADA, so I know what to avoid in the future. I thought I'd
left almost everybody's lives and minds in a state of complete
disarray.
Steve Kilbane
> She may not have had a choice, but Gerber obviously did.[...]
> The story could've just as easily been written with her sucked
> off into another dimension while she was wearing blue jeans and a
> baggy sweatshirt.
Absolutely. In a finely-crafted story, everything should have a place,
and serve the story - preferably without the reader noticing that
it's doing so. Did Gerber have a reason for Nevada being dressed like
that? Was it specified, or just assumed by the artist (I expect the former).
There are two levels of justification: internal and external. The internal
justication is that Nevada was thrown into events while dressed in her
costume - she didn't just decide to change, partway through for no
apparent reason. The external justification is, well, Gerber's call.
Personally, I noticed Nevada's outfit a lot, and it bugged me, too.
Not because it bothered me directly, but because I wondered at
the justification. I felt it deflected attention away from what was
a nicely-done piece of characterisation.
Cian O'Connor
>
> From: lordj...@geocities.com
>
> >quality books end up running late somewhere along the line.
>
> But they don't have to, and they shouldn't, imo.
That's right. I'll take timely over quality every time.
Cian
Cian O'Connor
>
> In article <3607DF12...@remove.me.digitivity.com>, Cian O'Connor
> <cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com> wrote:
>
> >Brandon wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <3607B224...@remove.me.digitivity.com>, Cian O'Connor
> >> <cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Brandon wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> In article <36077184...@remove.me.digitivity.com>, Cian O'Connor
> >> >> <cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >Well presumably they're padded. All the ones I've ever seen were (a long
> >> >> >time ago, not worth going into).
> >> >>
> >> >> Well, I'M curious.
> >> >
> >> >Only if you can tell me what you did with Damon's body.
> >>
> >> Why? Hungry?
> >
> >I want to make sure he's dead. You can never be too sure with
> >super-villans...
>
> He (she? it?) was NOT a super-villan. It was clear example of what happens
> when crossbreeding goes bad.
Crossbreeding between what?
Cian
P.S. any pictures, only I could make a mint in the German video
market...
Bradly E. Peterson
>>And during part of the story, when she was in a land controlled by
>>imagination, she was still wearing her costume. Should we assume
>>that that's what she would choose to fight in, given infinite choices?
>
>Sure - why not? Maybe her choice of the Egyptian style and song/dance routine
>is a reflection of her imagination.
Nope. The costume came from the suits upstairs. The Casino did
the theme, and Nevada just danced to the tune they played. Hell,
she might as well have been wearing a McDonald's outfit or
Janitor's overalls, fer crissakes! It was the "company uniform"
for the most part.
Bradly E. Peterson, Psychodrama Press
(Remove OMELETTEDUFROMAGE from address to reply)
<http://www.fastlane.net/homepages/drama>
"Obscene" = 'It turns me on and I don't like it'.
(Samael)
Bradly E. Peterson
>I'd like to hear what any or all of you thought of NEVADA,
>now that the first mini has concluded.
I dug it. Make more.
Mark Schlesinger
than a timely book of poor quality. I buy books when they arrive at the
store. I don't see any reason to drop a book just because it hasn't
arrived yet.
Mark
--
Mark Schlesinger When criminals in this world appear
schl...@primenet.com And break the laws that they should fear
Typical Boring Sig And frighten all who see and hear
The cry goes up both far and near for Underdog
Cian O'Connor
>
> In article <3608E287...@remove.me.digitivity.com>,
> Cian O'Connor <cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com> wrote:
> >JohannaLD wrote:
> >>
> >> From: lordj...@geocities.com
> >>
> >> >quality books end up running late somewhere along the line.
> >>
> >> But they don't have to, and they shouldn't, imo.
> >
> >That's right. I'll take timely over quality every time.
> >
> I would rather have a quality book that shipped erratically(sp?)
> than a timely book of poor quality. I buy books when they arrive at the
> store. I don't see any reason to drop a book just because it hasn't
> arrived yet.
Oh come on, that was clearly supposed to be irony...
Cian O'Connor
>
> On Tue, 22 Sep 1998 10:44:36 +0100, Cian O'Connor
> <cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com> wrote:
>
> >> And the answers came up, "This story isn't for me."
> >
> >Well there we concur, if for radically different reasons..
>
> Sorry to hear that, Cian. What were *your* reasons?
I'm not sure to be honest. I really loved the short story in Winter's
Edge, but somehow the series left me cold. It might be that the whole
thing needed to be read at one sitting (by the time I read the final
issue, I couldn't really remember half of what had happened), so at some
point I'll sit down and read it again (like I have the time...).
A couple of things though. The metaphysics seemed to be just presented
straight, with no real exploration of the ideas. I've come across
similar concepts before, so <shrug>.
And the characters didn't really seem very well fleshed out. Possibly
this is a problem with the miniseries, but I found myself far more
interested in the main characters, than the plot and themes of this
comic, but somehow your portayal of them was sketchy.
But then again if I read it again, maybe I'd change my mind :)
Cian
Steve Gerber
(Bradly E. Peterson) wrote:
>Nope. The costume came from the suits upstairs. The Casino did
>the theme, and Nevada just danced to the tune they played. Hell,
>she might as well have been wearing a McDonald's outfit or
>Janitor's overalls, fer crissakes! It was the "company uniform"
>for the most part.
Not necessarily, Brad. In some Vegas revue-style shows, the
performers bring their acts to the hotel, not the other way around.
It's possible that Nevada created this act specifically to land a job
at the Nile Hotel.
Brandon
(Steve Gerber) wrote:
>On Mon, 21 Sep 1998 11:18:40 +0000, Duncan <dun...@airstream.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>I thought it was groovy. Definitely one of the best things Vertigo has
>>done in a while. Only one proviso (for the next one): please, no neat
>>endings where everyone 'learns' something. Screw that.
>
>Uh -- no problem, but you'll have to tell me who learned what at the
>end of NEVADA, so I know what to avoid in the future. I thought I'd
>left almost everybody's lives and minds in a state of complete
>disarray.
Really? You promise? If so, I might have to take another look at this.
-Brandon
"Think is a verb and Different is an adjective; they can not be used
together. You can have a different thought or you can think differently;
but you can't think different."
-heard on comp.graphics.apps.photoshop
KingMobUK
>Nope. The costume came from the suits upstairs. The Casino did
>the theme, and Nevada just danced to the tune they played. Hell,
>she might as well have been wearing a McDonald's outfit or
>Janitor's overalls, fer crissakes! It was the "company uniform"
>for the most part.
And this is a statment of fact? Or your inferral from the book? If the
latter, my inferral is as valid as yours I'm afraid as often entertainers are
hired *because* of the popularity of their particular routine. Forgive me if I
think Nevada a stronger character rather than one under the thumb of corporate
rule.
Steve Gerber
<cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com> wrote:
>And the characters didn't really seem very well fleshed out. Possibly
>this is a problem with the miniseries, but I found myself far more
>interested in the main characters, than the plot and themes of this
>comic, but somehow your portayal of them was sketchy.
Ouch. I *hope* that's not true...
>But then again if I read it again, maybe I'd change my mind :)
Read it again, if you find the time, and let me know.
Steve Gerber
<cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com> wrote:
>Cian
By the way, is "Cian" pronounced "chan", "shan", or "cyan"? Just
curious.
Dale Hicks
>
> Seriously, I have dropped several series because I found the delays
> intolerable. The wonderful thing about this period of time in comics
> is that there's so much good stuff out there that I can't read it all.
> So if something doesn't come out when promised, I try something else.
You're lucky that Kabuki and Strangers in Paradise are series that are
likely to be collected, 'cause they sure aren't timely.
--
Norman Brain icono...@mail1.surfnet1.net
(who was so hoping for Kabuki #5 this week, but willing to wait)
Jason Fliegel
Steve Gerber <SGe...@pacbell.net> wrote:
>
>Uh -- no problem, but you'll have to tell me who learned what at the
>end of NEVADA, so I know what to avoid in the future.
The Clootie/Las Vegas Animal Control Employee learned "Never come between
a showgirl and her ostrich."
--
Jason Fliegel
j-fl...@uchicago.edu
3L, University of Chicago Law School
Ted Faber
>A couple of things though. The metaphysics seemed to be just presented
>straight, with no real exploration of the ideas. I've come across
>similar concepts before, so <shrug>.
That nicely sums up my reaction as well. I've read enough weird stuff
before that this didn't blaze any new territory for me. In fact, I
was a little struck that it fazed Nevada as much as it did. It seems
like someone as bright as Nevada seems to be would have heard of
subjective interpretations of reality and regained her feet a little
quicker. But maybe I'm just reading too much Invisibles.
The other problem that I had was that the ending wasn't. The story's
obviously not over, and rally not at any more of a stopping point than
between issue 4 and 5. So what was the point of saying it was a six
issue mini? (Other than practical ones: that's what Vertigo would
give you.)
All that lukewarm stuff said, I'll probably pick up the sequel. It
wasn't actively *bad* I just don't think you hit your stride with it
yet, and it shows promise.
"This is no time to act like a gentleman. I am a cad and shall react like one."
-- George Sanders
--
Ted Faber Figment at Large fa...@lunabase.org
http://www.lunabase.org/~faber PGP: http://www.lunabase.org/~faber/pubkey.asc
"He actually looks a bit like Elvis, like Elvis does now; a chunky,
decomposing ex-Ted." -- Irvine Welsh in Trainspotting
Ted Faber
>king...@aol.com (KingMobUK) done said this here deal:
>>Sure - why not? Maybe her choice of the Egyptian style and song/dance routine
>>is a reflection of her imagination.
.
>Nope. The costume came from the suits upstairs. The Casino did
>the theme, and Nevada just danced to the tune they played. Hell,
>she might as well have been wearing a McDonald's outfit
Now that idea appeals to me.
Dunno why, though.
"Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life.
(The conviction of the rich that the poor are happier is no more foolish than
the conviction of the poor that the rich are.)" -- Mark twain
Ted Faber
>I feel obliged to point out one other thing, too. The first time that
>Nevada appears in the series (other than on the cover), she's anything
>*but* glamorous. She's jogging -- in athletic clothes and running
>shoes -- and perspiring like hell. Part of what I was trying to do in
>the book was contrast the sensual image she projects onstage with the
>reality of her daily life.
.
>When was the last time you saw a superheroine (fully clothed or
>otherwise) doing her laundry? Picking up pet poop? Dealing with a
>hair disaster? Waking up in a state of bleary-eyed confusion? Etc.?
Well you should compare apples and apples, or in this case Vertigo
women to Veritgo women. Nevada's probably more realistic than Ragged
Robin and Boy. She's clearly less so than Dian, although to be fair,
I've known Dian longer.
I agree with Johanna that being more realistic than mainstream
superheroes isn't much of a feat. Of course, I also think you were
more successful than that. I'm hoping to see that you get closer to
Dian, though.
My take on the costume at the rift? After the stupid get-up you had
Ogden in, I figured all rift warriors were supposed to dress like they
were Dungeons and Dragons characters. Assuming that's the case, I
think you should get Phil Foglio to do an issue. Or Boris Vallejo.
"Here we have a game that combines the charm of a pentagon briefing with the
excitement of double-entry bookkeeping." -- Cecil Adams
Mute
>On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:45:43 +0100, Cian O'Connor
><cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com> wrote:
>>Cian
>By the way, is "Cian" pronounced "chan", "shan", or "cyan"? Just
>curious.
I thought that was going in the FAQ?
Mute
who was the last to ask
Happy Birthday to me.
http://surf.to/muteradio
Bradly E. Peterson
>>> > All I can say is, those metal bra cuplet/nipple covers looked uncomfortable,
>>> > and they kept pushing me out of the story.
>>
>>Actually, such things are usually padded. It's getting used to the
>>adhesive that's the tough part. (Don't ask. Just don't ask.)
>
>Not only that, it's highly unlikely that the cuplets are really metal.
>They're part of a stage costume, not real armor. I suspect they're
>made of some very light material -- plastic or even styrofoam -- and
>painted to look metallic.
Much like the veneer of Vegas itself, huh?
Bradly E. Peterson
>>> From: SGe...@pacbell.net (Steve Gerber)
>>> >Define "fully clothed" as the term applies to a Las Vegas showgirl.
>>> ><g>
>
>> Define "using a character who happens to be a stripper or hooker
>> (or exotic dancer or ...) as an excuse to draw the same kinds of
>> costumes superheroines get criticized for". :)
>
>Well, it's an interesting theory, but there was no "excuse" involved.
>If you recall, the inspiration for the series came from an old issue
>of HOWARD THE DUCK in which three characters (a Las Vegas chorus girl,
>an ostrich, and a killer lampshade) were juxtaposed for the sake of
>pure nonsense. I explained in the first issue's "Ook" column how the
>three came together in a different configuration for the NEVADA
>series.
>
>One other thing, Johanna -- Nevada isn't a stripper, a hooker, *or* an
>exotic dancer. She's a dancer, period. You saw her act with Bolero
>in NEVADA #1. She's wearing exactly the same costume when she leaves
>the stage as when she makes her entrance. And nowhere in the series
>is it even vaguely *suggested* that she trades sex for money.
>
>I feel obliged to point out one other thing, too. The first time that
>Nevada appears in the series (other than on the cover), she's anything
>*but* glamorous. She's jogging -- in athletic clothes and running
>shoes -- and perspiring like hell. Part of what I was trying to do in
>the book was contrast the sensual image she projects onstage with the
>reality of her daily life.
>
>When was the last time you saw a superheroine (fully clothed or
>otherwise) doing her laundry? Picking up pet poop? Dealing with a
>hair disaster? Waking up in a state of bleary-eyed confusion? Etc.?
This morning, why do you ask? heh...
Bradly E. Peterson
>(Bradly E. Peterson) wrote:
>>Nope. The costume came from the suits upstairs. The Casino did
>>the theme, and Nevada just danced to the tune they played. Hell,
>>she might as well have been wearing a McDonald's outfit or
>>Janitor's overalls, fer crissakes! It was the "company uniform"
>>for the most part.
>
>Not necessarily, Brad. In some Vegas revue-style shows, the
>performers bring their acts to the hotel, not the other way around.
>It's possible that Nevada created this act specifically to land a job
>at the Nile Hotel.
Yeah, she just danced to the tune they played. Like I said.
heh... That's why I put "company uniform" in quotes. It's her
work clothes, no matter WHO put 'em together.
Cian O'Connor
>
> On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:45:43 +0100, Cian O'Connor
> <cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com> wrote:
>
> >Cian
>
> By the way, is "Cian" pronounced "chan", "shan", or "cyan"? Just
> curious.
Err, none of the above. Key-an
Cian
Cian O'Connor
>
> On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:45:43 +0100, Cian O'Connor
> <cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com> wrote:
>
> >this is a problem with the miniseries, but I found myself far more
> >interested in the main characters, than the plot and themes of this
> >comic, but somehow your portayal of them was sketchy.
>
> Ouch. I *hope* that's not true...
Well its only a view...
Something else that occurs to me though. There was a sense of wonder in
the Christmas preview, which seemed to be missing in the mini-series.
Nothing I can put my finger on (mainly because I'm in the process of
moving, so can't dig out the relevent issues...), but...
mup...@tao.sans.vuw.ac.nz
> Secondly, I'd like to hear what any or all of you thought of NEVADA,
> now that the first mini has concluded.
I loved it. Re-reading it yesterday, I found it quite startling just how
far it travelled from beginning to end; I thought the first issue was
pretty weird, but it seems like the definition of normality now!
I also have to say that issue 4 is the best single issue of any comic I
have read in many years.
I was wondering after number 5 how the fuck it was going to wrap up by the
end of 6, but I was totally satisfied in the end; there was a real ending,
but it was still left open. That's a damn hard trick to get right, man.
I showed the first few issues to a couple of my friends. Both of them ran
out and tried to find them but alas! all the local comic shops had sold
out. Both of them are waiting for a TPB and hanging out for the second
mini now.
Pearce
mup...@tao.sans.vuw.ac.nz
> i enjoyed it, but have a feeling i'd have liked it more if it stuck to the
> monthly schedule and was an ongoing series rather than a mini (or series
> of minis). perhaps it's something psychological, but the last issue felt
> like it came to its conclusion much too quickly even as it set up the next
> series - but the biggest problem there is that we have to wait a
> relatively long while before the next installment. is there basically no
> chance of an ongoing series?
Personally, I'd rather Gerber took the time to get his ideas together
rather than rushing out an issue every month for no reason other than "an
issue's due out this month."
This is wholly conjecture on my part, but I think that part of the reason
Preacher's been slow lately is because Garth Ennis is doing too damn much
at once (though I've liked the last couple of issues quite a lot).
Maybe other people would rather see hurried, half-finished stuff instead
though.
Pearce
Samael
Steve Gerber wrote in message
<36098dce...@nntptransit.lsan03.pbi.net>...
>
>By the way, is "Cian" pronounced "chan", "shan", or "cyan"? Just
>curious.
Bob.
Samael
lordj...@geocities.com
> >"Sure, she was a sex object, but she was a realistic-looking sex
> >object." Is that what comics have come to? (Sadly, I believe the
> >answer is yes.)
>
> Oy. No, Johanna. She was sexy but *not* an object. Fortunately for
> the propagation of the species (assuming one considers its propagation
> fortunate), such a condition is possible in both men and women.
Beautiful.
I know, I know, I'm not supposed to post a big quote with a one-word
"me-too" response. That's why I added this.
--
J. Stephen Bolhafner (Steve)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Zone/9923/index.html
"I could not live without books."
- Thomas Jefferson
lordj...@geocities.com
> One other thing, Johanna -- Nevada isn't a stripper, a hooker, *or* an
> exotic dancer. She's a dancer, period. You saw her act with Bolero
> in NEVADA #1. She's wearing exactly the same costume when she leaves
> the stage as when she makes her entrance. And nowhere in the series
> is it even vaguely *suggested* that she trades sex for money.
Oops. I called her a stripper in another post. I stand corrected. But she
DOES live in the desert.
JohannaLD
From: Cian O'Connor <cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com>
>JohannaLD wrote:
>> From: lordj...@geocities.com
>>
>> >quality books end up running late somewhere along the line.
>>
>> But they don't have to, and they shouldn't, imo.
>
>That's right. I'll take timely over quality every time.
You missed the point; why should we have to choose one or the
other? Especially if you're doing a four or six issue miniseries
instead of a continuing series.
Johanna
JohannaLD
From: SGe...@pacbell.net (Steve Gerber)
>If you recall, the inspiration for the series came from an old issue
>of HOWARD THE DUCK
If I could recall things I'd never read, I'd think I was one of your
characters. :)
>One other thing, Johanna -- Nevada isn't a stripper, a hooker, *or* an
>exotic dancer.
To most of America, a woman who dances in Las Vegas with a
bird while wearing very little clothing is pretty damn exotic. :)
>When was the last time you saw a superheroine (fully clothed or
>otherwise) doing her laundry?
There's an old issue of Wonder Woman where she does exactly
that.
Anyway, I still find it interesting that the mostly-naked woman
was featured on every cover. But whatever it takes to catch those
fanboys, right?
Johanna
The Great and Powerful Danny Sichel
>>now that the first mini has concluded.
<HomerSimpson> Mmmmm... more Nevada... </HomerSimpson>
Jeff and Sheri Koenig
> >
> >By the way, is "Cian" pronounced "chan", "shan", or "cyan"? Just
> >curious.
>
> Bob.
>
> Samael
Damnit, this is supposed to be a place for serious intellectual
discussion about all those gloomy aren't-we-mature titles Vertigo is
nice enough to put out each month, and here you go and make me laugh....
Fuck. Ruined my whole day....
-Jeff (pronounced Atreiyu)
Todd VerBeek
><cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com> wrote:
My pal Steve Gerber said:
>By the way, is "Cian" pronounced "chan", "shan", or "cyan"? Just
>curious.
"sin-KEV-itch"
Cheers, Todd
--
Windows98 makes the internet as easy to navigate as your local computer, but
it does this by making your hard drive look like a badly-designed web site.
Bob Heer
> Anyway, I still find it interesting that the mostly-naked woman
> was featured on every cover. But whatever it takes to catch those
> fanboys, right?
Is your point (whatever it is) really so weak that you have to lie to
support it? Nevada isn't in her stage costume (mostly-naked, as you call
it) on two of the six covers. And three of those where she is are set in
the Rift, where she was so dressed in the story (I'm not sure why Bolero
was on the cover of the last one, in that case, but I suppose it was to
catch those fanboys with ostrich fetishs).
Bob Heer bg...@torfree.net http://www.geocities.com/area51/dimension/1428
--
Rebellion is where faith begins
--
Bradly E. Peterson
>>Nope. The costume came from the suits upstairs. The Casino did
>>the theme, and Nevada just danced to the tune they played. Hell,
>>she might as well have been wearing a McDonald's outfit or
>>Janitor's overalls, fer crissakes! It was the "company uniform"
>>for the most part.
>
>And this is a statment of fact? Or your inferral from the book?
>If the latter, my inferral is as valid as yours I'm afraid as
>often entertainers are hired *because* of the popularity of their
>particular routine. Forgive me if I think Nevada a stronger
>character rather than one under the thumb of corporate rule.
Hmm... Didn't mean to imply that. Oh no. I meant that she's
wearing the uniform that came with the gig, whether she had it
made, made it herself or the suits said, "here, wear this." I
probably should have said that the THEME was the suit's idea,
rather than the costume itself. That states it better, I think.
Bradly E. Peterson
>From: SGe...@pacbell.net (Steve Gerber)
>
>>If you recall, the inspiration for the series came from an old issue
>>of HOWARD THE DUCK
>
>If I could recall things I'd never read, I'd think I was one of your
>characters. :)
Well, You ARE "A" character, at least. heh...
Bradly E. Peterson
>By the way, is "Cian" pronounced "chan", "shan", or "cyan"? Just
>curious.
Kee-ann
Mute
>>If you recall, the inspiration for the series came from an old issue
>>of HOWARD THE DUCK
>If I could recall things I'd never read, I'd think I was one of your
>characters. :)
But you said that you read Nevada.
>Anyway, I still find it interesting that the mostly-naked woman
>was featured on every cover. But whatever it takes to catch those
>fanboys, right?
Well, she was the title character!
Mute.
squidly
>Anyway, I still find it interesting that the
mostly-naked woman
>was featured on every cover. But whatever it takes to
catch those
>fanboys, right?
Being as queer as a loon, I went for the quality of art
and the name "Gerber"....naked women don't work for
everyone, y'know.....
Love Will.....xx
A home-page of sorts is at
http://www.squidly.clara.net/
Casualty back on the air!!!
Join the chat at holby-s...@egroups.com
The Muppet Club
> That nicely sums up my reaction as well. I've read enough weird stuff
> before that this didn't blaze any new territory for me. In fact, I
> was a little struck that it fazed Nevada as much as it did. It seems
> like someone as bright as Nevada seems to be would have heard of
> subjective interpretations of reality and regained her feet a little
> quicker. But maybe I'm just reading too much Invisibles.
Hm, am I the only one on this group who can truthfully say "I've never
read a single issue of Invisibles"?
There's a difference between hearing about something and being confronted
with it face to face. Whether it be metaphysics, alligators, talking
ducks stranded in Cleveland, or whatever.
And just 'cause someone's bright doesn't mean that they've heard of the
same shit you have. Intelligence is not knowledge (and vice versa).
Much as I loved this first mini, it did feel a bit like an introduction
rather than the whole story. Which is fine by me.
> The other problem that I had was that the ending wasn't. The story's
> obviously not over, and rally not at any more of a stopping point than
> between issue 4 and 5. So what was the point of saying it was a six
> issue mini? (Other than practical ones: that's what Vertigo would
> give you.)
The ending wasn't a "Catch the killer, kiss the kids and go to bed"
ending, but it was definitely an ending. I was satisfied by it.
If it'd stopped between 4 and 5, Nevada would have been lying shattered
on the floor and noone would have been happy. As it was, she got home and
started to put her life back together, knowing that nothing would ever be
the same again. So there were lots of plot threads still unresolved; so
what? Before I'd even picked up the first issue I'd heard this was
planned as the first of a series of minis. This suggested to me that it
was a story arc, not a complete entity unto itself.
Pearce (wishes he still had his old "Howard the Duck" comics)
Cian O'Connor
>
> From: Cian O'Connor <cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com>
> >JohannaLD wrote:
> >> From: lordj...@geocities.com
> >>
> >> >quality books end up running late somewhere along the line.
> >>
> >> But they don't have to, and they shouldn't, imo.
> >
> >That's right. I'll take timely over quality every time.
>
> You missed the point; why should we have to choose one or the
> other?
Err... I'm speechless. Obviously you're not an artist then...
> Especially if you're doing a four or six issue miniseries
> instead of a continuing series.
Well there is that, but there could be a perfectly good reason why it
was delayed by two weeks (you have a problem with two weeks. Two weeks!
I didn't even notice the delay myself).
Cian
thad a doria
Todd VerBeek <ver...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>On Wed, 23 Sep 1998 17:45:43 +0100, Cian O'Connor
>><cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com> wrote:
>
>My pal Steve Gerber said:
>>curious.
>
MIX-yez-PIT-el-ick
--
-Thad Doria
"I'm going to be the next Canadian Dracula."
"You're not even Canadian."
"I'm not Dracula either."
Alasdair Watson
<joha...@aol.com> writes
>>That's right. I'll take timely over quality every time.
>
>You missed the point; why should we have to choose one or the
>instead of a continuing series.
Because life's not always predictable enough to be able to be sure that
the same amount of time will be available *without fail* every month to
write/letter/draw/colour/whatever. Sometimes, it will happen that
someone's budgie dies, or their house gets blown up by marxist lemmings,
which will kind of put a crimp in the publishing schedule.
I agree, there is slightly less of an excuse with a mini, in that
companies could wait until all the issues of a mini are complete and
ready to go before even soliciting it, but that means they're sitting on
things that could be making them money if they release them, which I'm
sure they're not over fond of. Even then, there may be simple things
like shipping delays, freak weather, warehouse fires, printers going
under, and so on that coulkd conspire to keep a comic late.
--
Alasdair Watson
Samael
Cian O'Connor wrote in message
<360B6949...@remove.me.digitivity.com>...
>JohannaLD wrote:
>>
>> From: Cian O'Connor <cian.o...@remove.me.digitivity.com>
>> >JohannaLD wrote:
>> >> From: lordj...@geocities.com
>> >>
>> >> >quality books end up running late somewhere along the line.
>> >>
>> >> But they don't have to, and they shouldn't, imo.
>> >
>>
>> You missed the point; why should we have to choose one or the
>> other?
>
>
>> instead of a continuing series.
>
>was delayed by two weeks (you have a problem with two weeks. Two weeks!
>I didn't even notice the delay myself).
With something as short as a six issue miniseries, they could have got the
first couple of issues in the bag before they started shipping the series.
That way they couldn't have fallen behind unless the writer/artist fell more
than 2 months behind.
For a ompany of DC's size, this would not be difficult.
Samael
Samael
Jeff and Sheri Koenig wrote in message <360AFA...@concentric.net>...
>Samael wrote:
>> >
>> >By the way, is "Cian" pronounced "chan", "shan", or "cyan"? Just
>> >curious.
>>
>>
>> Samael
>
>Damnit, this is supposed to be a place for serious intellectual
>discussion about all those gloomy aren't-we-mature titles Vertigo is
>nice enough to put out each month, and here you go and make me laugh....
>Fuck. Ruined my whole day....
>
>-Jeff (pronounced Atreiyu)
So, did you think the film did any justice to the book? I thought it was
steaming pile of poo myself, while the book was marvellous.
Samael
Killans - First And Last And Always
Ted Faber <fa...@lunabase.org> wrote:
>My take on the costume at the rift? After the stupid get-up you had
>Ogden in, I figured all rift warriors were supposed to dress like they
>were Dungeons and Dragons characters. Assuming that's the case, I
>think you should get Phil Foglio to do an issue. Or Boris Vallejo.
Boris Vallejo does comics?
That would be a laugh...I could use a good flashback to adolescence :-)
Mike
--
Mike Collins