Justice League of America #1
prestorjon
That said I have two quibbles about the team selection they're doing:
"Mari's just not there yet." Gee I would have thought that Vixens
stint with the League previously and her time with the Suicide Squad
would make her okay. And then Hawkman. ARRRGHH. "What I don't wnat
is to confuse violence and anger with leadership" WTF. With the
characterization we've had of Batman HE'S criticizing other people for
mistaking violence and anger for leadership. Has Batman lead anything,
except with his fists, since he was with the Giffen League? Gee it's
not like Hawkman's been doing this since THOMAS Wayne was in short
pants. It's not like he's been one of "the world's greatest super
heroes" since the 40s. It's not like he's never LEAD a Justice Leagure
OR Society before. It's not like, unlike Batman, he's liked and
respected by the people he's worked with. It's not like, unlike
Batman, he's able to admit when he's gone too far. I've said it before
and I'll say it again: I've got no problem with them making Batman an
asshole, but they've got to have people call him on it. ESPECIALLY
Clark and Diana who are the closest thing he has to friends now.
jtl...@gmail.com
annoyed at both the same moments.
badth...@yahoo.com
I hear you, but post-Infinite Crisis, he's no longer a tool and thanks
to DiDio's "nothing is continuity until we say it is" his entire
ass-hat history may now not even have existed. Hell, he's apologizing
to a cop in his own book and smiling over in Wonder Woman (and don't
get me started on Bat "Ooh, the fast man done scarded me!" Man in JLA
0), so it's safe to say he's not the same guy he was a year ago.
But all your positive comments will still not separate me from my
dollar so long as Meltzer and Benes are on this book. I don't have
many fanboy principles, but this is one of them.
Michael
prestorjon wrote:
> Biggest surprise? It didn't suck.
>
> That said I have two quibbles about the team selection they're doing:
> "Mari's just not there yet." Gee I would have thought that Vixens
> stint with the League previously and her time with the Suicide Squad
> would make her okay. And then Hawkman. ARRRGHH. "What I don't wnat
> is to confuse violence and anger with leadership" WTF.
Is Hawkman even back yet? If that's him in the last issue of Hawkgirl,
he's not exactly in top form.
> With the
> characterization we've had of Batman HE'S criticizing other people for
> mistaking violence and anger for leadership. Has Batman lead anything,
> except with his fists, since he was with the Giffen League? Gee it's
> not like Hawkman's been doing this since THOMAS Wayne was in short
> pants. It's not like he's been one of "the world's greatest super
> heroes" since the 40s. It's not like he's never LEAD a Justice Leagure
> OR Society before. It's not like, unlike Batman, he's liked and
> respected by the people he's worked with. It's not like, unlike
> Batman, he's able to admit when he's gone too far. I've said it before
> and I'll say it again: I've got no problem with them making Batman an
> asshole, but they've got to have people call him on it. ESPECIALLY
> Clark and Diana who are the closest thing he has to friends now.
I thought Infinite Crisis was supposed to move Batman back into
normalcy, at least a bit.
Michael
Tony
--he's not the same guy, as Grant Morrison mentions in an interview
with Newsarama today. But Grant does point out that--at least in his
eyes and likely it's in continuity--the ass Bat years still happened.
DC was looking for a way to integrate that into the evolution of his
character.
And I still don't see why anyone would feel that a guy who's used to
normal criminals and outlandishly garbed-yet still human villains is
going to be accustomed *immediately* to a guy who runs at MACH 4
(especially at the beginning of his career). Sure he's been hanging
around Superman, but as later history attests, even in that case, he'd
had contingency plans in place. So it's clear that Batman has long
held superhumans with a suspicious eye. In the beginning it was more
than just suspicion, but less than fear. Over time it turned into
close friendships in many cases, but he still had that worry in the
back of his mind.
> But all your positive comments will still not separate me from my
> dollar so long as Meltzer and Benes are on this book. I don't have
> many fanboy principles, but this is one of them.
--for all that I disliked the ending to Identity Crisis, it's clear
from JLA #1 that Meltzer has a fantastic love of the JLA. Judging
issue 1 on its own merits, I will buy issue 2. As for Benes, well his
art has toned down a bit from a few years ago (when he was on
Supergirl), and I think I can live with him on the book.
The Watch Dog
Michael wrote:
> Spoiler space just in case:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> normalcy, at least a bit.
>
A bit, maybe, but he still has to be the guy that created Brother Eye
in order for the current DCU to work.
YKW '06
I've never understood the Ed-Benes-draws-porn meme. He doesn't draw
people =well=enough= for any of it to be erotic. His stuff -- even when
apparently -intended- as cheesecake -- is about as "porny" as Leonard
Nimoy's nude photography...
But, yeah, the art is truly hideous in many places (Benes just cries out
for a finisher rather than an inker, someone who will take his figurework
for the roughs they so obviously are rather than just tracing them over),
but the story itself (with occasional reservations and several great big
"huh?" moments) is excellent.
After reading how much of IdC was driven by DiDio and his vision for what
the DCU should look like in the run-up to InfC (much of IdC's plot was
already written by DiDio before Meltzer was ever brought onboard), it's
easy to see how much Meltzer truly does love these characters when he
doesn't have someone telling him to write stupid scenes to set up
plotlines for other books and other projects.
I mean, the last guy to show this much props for Reddy was Kurt Busiek,
back when he was about twelve and writing the RT mini...
--
------------------- ------------------------------------------------
|| E-mail: ykw2006 ||"The mystery of government is not how Washington||
|| -at-gmail-dot-com ||works but how to make it stop." -- P.J. O'Rourke||
|| ----------- || ------------------------------------ ||
||Replace "-at-" with|| Keeping Usenet Trouble-Free ||
|| "@" to respond. || Since 1998 ||
------------------- ------------------------------------------------
host
"prestorjon" <prest...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1156388395.0...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
Well those are some pretty good friends to have.
host
"Michael" <this...@for.rent> wrote in message
news:BraHg.308$Zt7...@newsfe04.lga...
It needed to move his butt back into the Batcave.
Now that he has a kid, how is he ever going to have the time to do anything?
He does not have the energy or strength to be hanging out with those people.
I like it when the super-heroes come to his aid, not the other way around,
kind of like Brave and Bold in a way.
Of all the identities in the DC universe, Wayne's is the most crucial.
Somehow he is able to protect a whole city, he has a huge corporate value,
and yet NOONE knows who this guy is. If he were ever found out he would be
done for, he has to lay low, ie work at HIS speed.
I hope somebody is reading this...
hOst
badth...@yahoo.com
Because he grew up in a world where Jay Garrick was in his history
books. Because when he was a kid he reacted with awe watching Alan
Scott fight The Icicle. And because he's Batman.
>Sure he's been hanging
> around Superman but
But nothing. There's nothing The Flash can do that Superman can't
while lifting a tanker, melting a car with his eyes, freezing a lake
with his breath and yelling so hard he can destroy a skyscraper. It's
like saying you're used to God flooding the world, but that walking on
water thing by Jesus freaks you out. If superpowers distrub you,
there's no one more terrifying than the alien in the red cape. Then
there's the simple fact that how could anything frighten you when
you've seen your mother's head being blown off? This is an erroroneous
way to humanize The Batman.
>as later history attests, even in that case, he'd
> had contingency plans in place. So it's clear that Batman has long
> held superhumans with a suspicious eye. In the beginning it was more
> than just suspicion, but less than fear. Over time it turned into
> close friendships in many cases, but he still had that worry in the
> back of his mind.
>
> > But all your positive comments will still not separate me from my
> > dollar so long as Meltzer and Benes are on this book. I don't have
> > many fanboy principles, but this is one of them.
>
> --for all that I disliked the ending to Identity Crisis, it's clear
> from JLA #1 that Meltzer has a fantastic love of the JLA. Judging
> issue 1 on its own merits, I will buy issue 2. As for Benes, well his
> art has toned down a bit from a few years ago (when he was on
> Supergirl), and I think I can live with him on the book.
Bear in mind, he also claimed to love the sattelite JLA as well and
look how that turned out. He totally tarnished that entire era. It's
now the place where Sue was physically raped and Batman was mentally
raped by his own teammates. He can keep his love.
sba...@bigplanet.com
prestorjon wrote:
> Biggest surprise? It didn't suck.
>
Well I thought it sucked!
How do we know what version of Red Tornado this is? The one that was a
member of the JSA on pre-Crisis Earth-2? The one who mentored Young
Justice? And where does Meltzer get off trying to shove aside RT's
"Tornado Tyrant" origin - if that is even in continuity anymore because
it's shown to us directly in the story!
Just like issue #0, DC is trying to reference the past without
clarifying to us in exacting detail what that past is/was! I think we
should have had at least two or three issues showing us in painstaking
detail exactly what details of Red Tornado's past are now officially in
continuity. Otherwise, I just absolutely cannot enjoy this story on
its own merits!
Oh, and Brad Meltzer is a misogynist because I said so, so there!
Dan McEwen
news:1156388395.0...@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:
> Biggest surprise? It didn't suck.
But it also wasn't fantastic.
> That said I have two quibbles about the team selection they're doing:
> "Mari's just not there yet." Gee I would have thought that Vixens
> stint with the League previously and her time with the Suicide Squad
> would make her okay.
Yeah, but it was JLDetroit. That cancels out anything she did with the
Suicide Squad. :) (But I agree that they were wrong.)
And then Hawkman. ARRRGHH. "What I don't wnat
> is to confuse violence and anger with leadership" WTF. With the
> characterization we've had of Batman HE'S criticizing other people for
> mistaking violence and anger for leadership. Has Batman lead
> anything, except with his fists, since he was with the Giffen League?
> Gee it's not like Hawkman's been doing this since THOMAS Wayne was in
> short pants. It's not like he's been one of "the world's greatest
> super heroes" since the 40s. It's not like he's never LEAD a Justice
> Leagure OR Society before. It's not like, unlike Batman, he's liked
> and respected by the people he's worked with. It's not like, unlike
> Batman, he's able to admit when he's gone too far. I've said it
> before and I'll say it again: I've got no problem with them making
> Batman an asshole, but they've got to have people call him on it.
> ESPECIALLY Clark and Diana who are the closest thing he has to friends
> now.
Hawkman as he's been written since his return in JSA is not even
remotely like Carter Hall had ever been written. He's an angry, violent
person. It's fine to have a character like that, but it was strange to
have that person be Hawkman.
--
"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain
occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive." --Thomas Jefferson
"How far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying
to defend from without?" --Dwight D. Eisenhower
Dan McEwen
news:1156394041.4...@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
spoilers...
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
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.
> But all your positive comments will still not separate me from my
> dollar so long as Meltzer and Benes are on this book. I don't have
> many fanboy principles, but this is one of them.
For me, there weren't enough positives to keep me interested. I went in
fairly neutral, but some things bugged me. First, I can't stand Hal
Jordan and don't even agree with Batman's assessment of him. Why is
Batman so dead-set on having members on the team who are either dead or
missing? (Atom, Captain Marvel, and Red Tornado) It's fine that he
wants them, but don't vote for them until they show up. Also, the main
three are rather one-note. Batman: paranoid, WW: tactician, Superman:
nice guy. And they all voted based on that. That's the most simplistic
form of the characters possible, and I'd say Batman is at least as good
a tactician as WW - if not better. And why do connections to Luthor
make people more likely to talk to Black Lightning? That one completely
threw me, especially since Luthor managed to disavow all of his criminal
activities. I guess it's just not the team for me.
Sean Walsh
Y'know, I can't believe I didn't see it earlier; that.................
Google Groups-enhanced spoiler space, in case you hadn't noticed... :p
......Dr. Impossible was a "reverse" (dare I say, Bizarroish) Mr.
Miracle.
Hee hee!
--
Sean
Peter Mason
prestorjon wrote:
> It's not like he's never LEAD a Justice Leagure
> OR Society before.
His short tenure as leader of the JSA against Black Adam only resulted
in one former member and a former ally dead and Black Adam still in
power in Kahndaq.
> It's not like, unlike Batman, he's liked and
> respected by the people he's worked with. It's not like, unlike
> Batman, he's able to admit when he's gone too far.
You mean like the jla's mindwipe of Batman that he refused to apologize
for and instead decided to justify by bringing up the memory of Sue
Dibny?
Peter Mason
And he has a father box!
Sean Walsh
And a hush tube!
--
Sean
Dan McEwen
news:1156439301....@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com:
I don't think he's a Bizarro because he was too clever. Bizarros aren't
known for their great intellect.
Tim Turnip
wrote:
I can't believe you didn't see that either, given that the story's
dialogue specifically mentions that Dr. Impossible is reputed to be
Mr. Miracle's brother. :)
Though I think Grant Morrison's recent Mr. Miracle miniseries was a
shade cleverer in performing a similar trick, when Baron Bedlam was
recast as a blonde, Caucasian 'mirror' of Mr. Miracle, with similarly
reversed colors.
(Design-wise, I'm also loving that, between Doc Impossible and the
return of Red Tornado's classic outfit, the flared cape-collars are
back!)
Sean Walsh
I meant earlier as in "before this issue, when I heard the name 'Dr.
Impossible' in interviews and such."
--
Sean
bar...@shentel.net
They aren't the closest things he has to friends, they are his friends.
And Vixen's league is considered a joke these days. The kind of thing
they don't want to recreate.
JLB
bar...@shentel.net
Well, given the people who run his businesses and the time he spends as
Batman, I don't think he makes a lot of the business decisions.
JLB
bar...@shentel.net
Well didn't Jay top out at the speed of sound in those days? You're
also overlooking the fact that he could have been afraid he'd be a
liability on a team like that.
JLB
bar...@shentel.net
To show off his detective skills? because with great power comes great
responsibilty and he wants to fet them off their asses?
Also, the main
> three are rather one-note. Batman: paranoid, WW: tactician, Superman:
> nice guy. And they all voted based on that. That's the most simplistic
> form of the characters possible, and I'd say Batman is at least as good
> a tactician as WW - if not better.
Maybe paranoia is what sets up Bats tactics? And anyway Diana may not
be as good a tactician as Bruce, but she has less character quirks that
keep that from being his primary motivation.
And why do connections to Luthor
> make people more likely to talk to Black Lightning? That one completely
> threw me, especially since Luthor managed to disavow all of his criminal
> activities. I guess it's just not the team for me.
That's to the people on the street. The people who've worked with him
or worked with people who worked with him knew better. In addition
Luthor has been outed as a supervillain. See the first OYL later arc
of the Superman books.
JLB
Hand-of-Omega
YKW '06 wrote:
> After reading how much of IdC was driven by DiDio and his vision for what
> the DCU should look like in the run-up to InfC (much of IdC's plot was
> already written by DiDio before Meltzer was ever brought onboard), it's
> easy to see how much Meltzer truly does love these characters when he
> doesn't have someone telling him to write stupid scenes to set up
> plotlines for other books and other projects.
> --------------------------------------------
Ok, the what now? Anything that'll give me a better view of that
project and its creators *may* be welcome, if it's justified. Link,
please?
Dex
YKW '06
<hando...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Here's a good place to start:
http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=6787
badth...@yahoo.com
Actually, you really couldn't see anyone moving near the speed of
sound, much less four times it, so basically Batman couldn't have seen
anything to be afraid of. Even in the context of the comics The Flash
essential *disappears* when he moves at super-speed.
But the point is, since Infinite Crisis didn't restore Earth-2, Bruce
Wayne has grown up in a world filled with superhumans and the most
powerful one is standing right to his left, so why should he fear a
lesser one? Meltzer would have been better served merely having Batman
being disturbed over dying while being turned into a diamond. Human
death by a gun or knife he was long prepared for, but this threw him.
That actually makes sense, not this "I'm not afraid of Zeus, but
Hercules scares me" reaction.
>You're
> also overlooking the fact that he could have been afraid he'd be a
> liability on a team like that.
>
Again, totally out of character. He's smarter than them all and he
knows it. It makes more sense if he felt his place was on the streets
and not in orbit. An attitude that later prompted Green Arrow to quit
the JLA.
Bob Hughes
>
>But the point is, since Infinite Crisis didn't restore Earth-2, Bruce
>Wayne has grown up in a world filled with superhumans and the most
>powerful one is standing right to his left, so why should he fear a
>lesser one? Meltzer would have been better served merely having Batman
>being disturbed over dying while being turned into a diamond. Human
>death by a gun or knife he was long prepared for, but this threw him.
>That actually makes sense, not this "I'm not afraid of Zeus, but
>Hercules scares me" reaction.
>
>
No, he hasn't. The superheroes disappeared in 1952. Bruce was born
in what, 1975?
Bob Hughes
Who's Whose at DC Comics? Creator Credits and art samples from DC's Golden and Silver Age Comics, especially Superman and Batman profiled at:
http://www.supermanartists.comics.org/superart.htm
Frank Zappa
Hand-of-Omega
YKW '06 wrote:
> On 24 Aug 2006, the voices tell me "Hand-of-Omega"
> <hando...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > YKW '06 wrote:
> >
> >> After reading how much of IdC was driven by DiDio and his vision for
> >> what the DCU should look like in the run-up to InfC (much of IdC's
> >> plot was already written by DiDio before Meltzer was ever brought
> >> onboard), it's easy to see how much Meltzer truly does love these
> >> characters when he doesn't have someone telling him to write stupid
> >> scenes to set up plotlines for other books and other projects.
> >> --------------------------------------------
> >
> > Ok, the what now? Anything that'll give me a better view of that
> > project and its creators *may* be welcome, if it's justified. Link,
> > please?
> >
> > Dex
> >
> >
>
> Here's a good place to start:
>
> http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=6787
>
a high-profile out-of-genre writer to write comics is to get his unique
take on things? I've *never* heard of a situation like this, where a
comics company snags a famous writer, only to tell him "and here's the
story you're going to tell!"...Odd...
So, it wasn't his decision to do all that to Sue? But the details were
still his, right? And, he wasn't expecting the "venom" from fans who
just saw a character who they surely loved as much as he supposedly did
being raped and murdered?? And then he writes them off as a "vocal
minority"??? Um, shouldn't he be pleased that so many found rape and
murder upsetting and said so? What the hell reaction was he *hoping*
for??
I dunno, at least Martian Manhunter made it out unscathed, altho it's
disturbing that Didio apparently thought he was expendable...
Dex
Oruncrest
news:m3pte2596akld1tuo...@4ax.com:
> On 24 Aug 2006 22:29:14 -0700, badth...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>
>>But the point is, since Infinite Crisis didn't restore Earth-2, Bruce
>>Wayne has grown up in a world filled with superhumans and the most
>>powerful one is standing right to his left, so why should he fear a
>>lesser one? Meltzer would have been better served merely having
>>Batman being disturbed over dying while being turned into a diamond.
>>Human death by a gun or knife he was long prepared for, but this threw
>>him. That actually makes sense, not this "I'm not afraid of Zeus, but
>>Hercules scares me" reaction.
>>
>>
> No, he hasn't. The superheroes disappeared in 1952. Bruce was born
> in what, 1975?
Let's see, Bruce started his Bat-career at the tender age of 25, within a
few months of Superman's debut. Twelve years passed between Supe's debut
and Zero Hour (as revealed in the timeline gatefold in ZERO HOUR #0).
Asuming that only *one* year (ha!) occurred between Zero Hour and Infinite
Crisis and that it's now one year after Infinite Crisis, then Bruce was
likely born in 1967.
Which means he would've been between three and five when the members of the
Justice Exprience (http://www.fanzing.com/mag/fanzing27/hoj.shtml) began to
appear as individual heroes, some of whom (the Acro-Bat for instance)
operated in Gotham City. Most of whom would have been killed off by the
time he was eight or nine, just in time for a certain incident in Park Row.
Denny Colt
> dollar so long as Meltzer and Benes are on this book. I don't have
> many fanboy principles, but this is one of them.
Y'know, I usually hate Benes, but he didn't bother me that much here.
maybe it was the inking. Not my favorite style of artwork certainly,
but more readable than that Kubert kid on Batman. Very sloppy. (I can't
remember which is which, but the one on Superman seems better).
But I liked the story, and the writing. They were a little prickly with
one another, and I was a mite confused by the questions over Red
Tornado's origin (I thought it was determined that he was an
elemental?) but overall I enjoyed it. And I liked the mystery story
quality to it, as a change from the standard "here's a seemingly
insurmountable threat, here's the JLA getting their bags handed to
them, here's the surprise weapon or guest star or secret plan that
Batman hatched that saves the day at the last minute" (which, truth be
told, I also like - just re-read Busiek's "Syndicate Rules" which I
think is a pretty underrated modern gem),
Michael
> Michael wrote:
>
>>Spoiler space just in case:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I thought Infinite Crisis was supposed to move Batman back into
>>normalcy, at least a bit.
>>
>
>
> A bit, maybe, but he still has to be the guy that created Brother Eye
> in order for the current DCU to work.
True. You'd think there'd be a lot of hard feelings amongst those who
didn't know the whole mess of a story.
Michael
Michael
bar...@shentel.net
I've always hated it.
Spoiler space
When Felix Faust stopped impersonating Deadman. He'd essentially kept
up the pretense for several minutes after RT could no longer see him.
Totally unnecessary.
JLB
YKW '06
Not to mention that some of the old-timers, like Alan Scott, never fully
retired and were known to be active in Bruce's youth.
Joe Sewell
"prestorjon" <prest...@aol.com> wrote:
> Biggest surprise? It didn't suck.
>
> That said I have two quibbles about the team selection they're doing:
> "Mari's just not there yet." Gee I would have thought that Vixens
> stint with the League previously and her time with the Suicide Squad
> would make her okay. And then Hawkman. ARRRGHH. "What I don't wnat
> is to confuse violence and anger with leadership" WTF. With the
> characterization we've had of Batman HE'S criticizing other people for
> mistaking violence and anger for leadership. Has Batman lead anything,
> except with his fists, since he was with the Giffen League? Gee it's
> not like Hawkman's been doing this since THOMAS Wayne was in short
> pants. It's not like he's been one of "the world's greatest super
> heroes" since the 40s. It's not like he's never LEAD a Justice Leagure
> OR Society before. It's not like, unlike Batman, he's liked and
> respected by the people he's worked with. It's not like, unlike
> Batman, he's able to admit when he's gone too far. I've said it before
> and I'll say it again: I've got no problem with them making Batman an
> asshole, but they've got to have people call him on it. ESPECIALLY
> Clark and Diana who are the closest thing he has to friends now.
>
Let's not forget one nagging point shown in the Hawkgirl title: Carter
hasn't been seen for a while.
--
_
ASCII ribbon campaign ( ) Fight Spam! Join the Coalition
against HTML e-mail X Against Unsolicited Commercial Email
http://www.metacon.ca/ascii / \ http://www.cauce.org
Joe Sewell
sba...@bigplanet.com wrote:
> prestorjon wrote:
> > Biggest surprise? It didn't suck.
> >
>
> Well I thought it sucked!
>
> How do we know what version of Red Tornado this is? The one that was a
> member of the JSA on pre-Crisis Earth-2? The one who mentored Young
> Justice? And where does Meltzer get off trying to shove aside RT's
> "Tornado Tyrant" origin - if that is even in continuity anymore because
> it's shown to us directly in the story!
I think the inclusion of the art from Reddy's first days as "John Smith"
proves that there's only ONE version of Red Tornado II. He came from
Earth-Two, though that history no longer exists. He mentored Young
Justice when he came back in one of his old bodies, as Bruce mentioned.
And his "soul" is likely that of the Tornado Champion.
> Just like issue #0, DC is trying to reference the past without
> clarifying to us in exacting detail what that past is/was! I think we
> should have had at least two or three issues showing us in painstaking
> detail exactly what details of Red Tornado's past are now officially in
> continuity. Otherwise, I just absolutely cannot enjoy this story on
> its own merits!
>
> Oh, and Brad Meltzer is a misogynist because I said so, so there!
CraigS
Reality punch took care of that.
Hand-of-Omega
bar...@shentel.net wrote:
> prestorjon wrote:
I've said it before
> > and I'll say it again: I've got no problem with them making Batman an
> > asshole, but they've got to have people call him on it. ESPECIALLY
> > Clark and Diana who are the closest thing he has to friends now.
>
> They aren't the closest things he has to friends, they are his friends.
>
True, but they're just about the only real friends he has...
Speaking of friendship as a relationship of equals, at least. Sure, he
has Dick, Tim and Alfred, but the first two will always be
subordinates, while Alfred is a weird sort-of "subordinate/mentor"
type. I would count Jim Gordon, but the need to keep up the secret ID
will always keep that at a distance...
Y'know, it just occured to me that there used to be female counterparts
to the first three on the list, in the persons of Barbara, Cassandra,
and Leslie (I'd also count Stephanie there). But over the last year or
so, each of these has been either driven away, turned evil or crazy or
outright killed! Is there some agenda, conscious or not, to deprive the
Dark Knight of feminine influence? Where's the Feminist Conspiracy
Theorists when I need them?!^^
Actually, Catwoman is still around, but since DC feels the need to
tease us with the uncertainty of her baby's daddy, they necessarily
have to be kept apart until the big reveal...And while Barbara is happy
to have her show on the road, I'd at least like to see that there was
some reconcillation between her and Bruce...
Any others that Batman may see as actual friends and equals?
Dex
Mathew Krull
disguise? Felix Faust is not naturally invisible to the living like
Boston Brand is.
bar...@shentel.net
He even spoke as Deadman though. I wonder if this will end up having
anything to do with the Red Inferno mentioned by Morrow in an issue of
52.
JLB
Dan McEwen
news:npmdnUiRP6sCAnLZ...@wideopenwest.com:
Well, no. Reality punches stopped when Superboy left "Paradise". You
can only blame that on stuff that happened before he showed up.
the Host
"YKW '06" <ykwBLOC...@gmail.BLOCKER.com> wrote in message
news:Xns982A9061EAA71...@140.99.99.130...
Heck yeah. If you possess a power ring there aint much sense retiring unless
you get alzheimers.
the Host
"Sean Walsh" <sean...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1156457349....@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> Peter Mason wrote:
> > Sean Walsh wrote:
> > > prestorjon wrote:
> > > > Biggest surprise? It didn't suck.
> > > >
doing:
> > > > "Mari's just not there yet." Gee I would have thought that Vixens
> > > > stint with the League previously and her time with the Suicide Squad
> > > > would make her okay. And then Hawkman. ARRRGHH. "What I don't
wnat
> > > > is to confuse violence and anger with leadership" WTF. With the
> > > > characterization we've had of Batman HE'S criticizing other people
for
> > > > mistaking violence and anger for leadership. Has Batman lead
anything,
> > > > except with his fists, since he was with the Giffen League? Gee
it's
> > > > not like Hawkman's been doing this since THOMAS Wayne was in short
> > > > pants. It's not like he's been one of "the world's greatest super
> > > > heroes" since the 40s. It's not like he's never LEAD a Justice
Leagure
> > > > OR Society before. It's not like, unlike Batman, he's liked and
> > > > respected by the people he's worked with. It's not like, unlike
before
> > > > and I'll say it again: I've got no problem with them making Batman
an
> > > > asshole, but they've got to have people call him on it. ESPECIALLY
> > > > Clark and Diana who are the closest thing he has to friends now.
> > >
> > > Miracle.
> > >
> > > Hee hee!
> >
>
> And a hush tube!
>
And a Granny Badness!
> --
> Sean
>
Bob Hughes
You're making the unfounded assumption that the ZERO hour timeline has
any relevance to new Earth. Hell! It didn't even have any relevance to
ZERO Hour earth. This is not the timeline Morrison has mentioned in
recent interviews.
You're assuming the Justice Experience still exist in new Earth. And
that any of their careers lasted longer than 30 seconds or even made
it into the newspapers. Plus the example of a bunch of guys in long
johns who were all killed in action within seconds after starting
their career would hardly have a positive effect on young Bruce.
>
>> Not to mention that some of the old-timers, like Alan Scott, never fully
>> retired and were known to be active in Bruce's youth.
>
Known by whom? DC comic readers? Bruce doesn't read comics. Alan
Scott's post 52 adventures hardly made the news media.
And Keystone City spent 50 years in an alternate dimension so that
Barry Allen never even knew there was a real Flash before him.
lione...@yahoo.com
(1) It was Superman's thoughts, so while he may know Bruce very well,
he may be incorrect.
(2) Batman knows Superman. He has learned to trust him (to an extent)
and is friend's with him. He probably already had some plan in place
to take him down if necessary.
The heroes of the 40s were gone. Now with a proliferation of new
powered heroes Batman may have been forced to view the world
differently. He still adapts quickly.
CraigS
> CraigS <cste...@yahoo.com> wrote in
> news:npmdnUiRP6sCAnLZ...@wideopenwest.com:
>
>
>>Michael wrote:
>>
>>>True. You'd think there'd be a lot of hard feelings amongst those
>>>who didn't know the whole mess of a story.
>>
>> Reality punch took care of that.
>
>
> Well, no. Reality punches stopped when Superboy left "Paradise". You
> can only blame that on stuff that happened before he showed up.
>
I meant to say "hyper-time-warp reality punch".
gandrw...@gmail.com
While you're right about New Earth, there was was a scene in Hush where
young Bruce and Tommy Elliot saw Alan Scott in the sky.
jdav...@aol.com
YKW '06
The Reaper was also an Alan Scott foe from Bruce's youth.
Michael
And last we saw of him in 52, doesn't Mal/Herald/Vox still have parts of
Red Tornado grafted to him?
Michael
Peter Mason
Michael wrote:
> And last we saw of him in 52, doesn't Mal/Herald/Vox still have parts of
> Red Tornado grafted to him?
The only thing grafted onto him was Tornado's voicebox.
YKW '06
wrote:
Though a good hunk of what was left of John's last body was also used to
rebuild Vic Stone in FIFTY-TWO.
Eminence
wrote:
It's just a punch to the left
And then a jab to the riiiiiiiight
Eminence
_______________
Usenet: Global Village of the Damned
Michael
> On 28 Aug 2006, the voices tell me "Peter Mason" <tanke...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Michael wrote:
>>
>>>And last we saw of him in 52, doesn't Mal/Herald/Vox still have parts of
>>>Red Tornado grafted to him?
>>
>>The only thing grafted onto him was Tornado's voicebox.
>>
>>
>
>
> Though a good hunk of what was left of John's last body was also used to
> rebuild Vic Stone in FIFTY-TWO.
So the Red Tornado body we saw in JLA #1 was almost if not totally
completely new?
Michael
Michael
That was one seriously big voicebox!
Michael
Dan McEwen
news:%c_Ig.128$j56...@newsfe05.lga:
> YKW '06 wrote:
>> Though a good hunk of what was left of John's last body was also used
>> to rebuild Vic Stone in FIFTY-TWO.
>
> So the Red Tornado body we saw in JLA #1 was almost if not totally
> completely new?
Maybe that's why he didn't inhabit it.