Stan Lee to do DC characters
Tom Galloway
rac.dc.universe]
Yeesh. Miller returns to Daredevil and Dark Knight Returns. Ellison does
a Batman story. Stan Lee and John Buscema doing Superman. Where was all
this stuff back on April 1st?
According to a story in USA Today at http://www.usatoday.com/life/lds027.htm
Stan Lee will be writing a 12 issue story line for DC using multiple DCU
characters, along with multiple artists. Said artists will include
Jim Lee, Dave Gibbons, Joe Kubert and Bruce Timm with Adam Hughes doing
all the covers.
Starting out with "Just Imagine Stan Lee With John Buscema Creating
Superman" [OK, so I think the titles need some serious work...] late
this year, the issues will be "bound, slick-paper" (no price announced)
and are said to be a "complete rethinking of the entire DC Comics
mythology", with characters including Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash,
Green Lantern, the JLA, and Sandman (yes, Sandman. No other details on
that one). Jim Lee will be drawing Wonder Woman and Dave Gibbons will
do the Green Lantern issue.
OK, all in favor of having Julie Schwartz take over Spider-Man...:-)
tyg t...@netcom.com
GrapeApe
I'll take some mort weisinger x-men over this way.
Eric Gimlin
> Yeesh. Miller returns to Daredevil and Dark Knight Returns. Ellison does
> a Batman story. Stan Lee and John Buscema doing Superman. Where was all
> this stuff back on April 1st?
It's official. Hell has frozen over. People have been discussing how
Miller back on Batman is not a cure for the industry. This might just
be. People know the name Stan Lee like no other creator, and the story
broke on USA TODAY, for crying out loud, instead of the comic web pages
and mags. Not just that they picked it up, but the report started
there. This will get a lot of attention, the question is will the
industry be able to do anything with it. (And yes, I'll be one of the
thousands fighting to be first in line for the book.)
Eric Gimlin
Rob Merritt
wrote:
>It's official. Hell has frozen over. People have been discussing how
>Miller back on Batman is not a cure for the industry. This might just
>be. People know the name Stan Lee like no other creator, and the story
>broke on USA TODAY, for crying out loud, instead of the comic web pages
>and mags. Not just that they picked it up, but the report started
>there. This will get a lot of attention, the question is will the
>industry be able to do anything with it. (And yes, I'll be one of the
>thousands fighting to be first in line for the book.)
My Dad who hasn't bought a comic in 27 years would buy this. Even if
the industry croaks and dies, this will be huge.
Rob Merritt
aka Baron Calamity
------
Gaming, My family, Micronauts, Lego, and all about me me me me at:
http://rcmerritt.homestead.com
Pat ONeill
>Miller back on Batman is not a cure for the industry. This might just
>be. People know the name Stan Lee like no other creator, and the story
>broke on USA TODAY, for crying out loud, instead of the comic web pages
>and mags.
It "broke" on Rick Veitch's "Splash" web page a week ago.
And it's not a cure for the industry, either. This is precisely the kind of
project only long-time fans give a damn about.
Best, Pat
MBRADY669
and it broke before than on iFuse.
Jay Rudin
> It "broke" on Rick Veitch's "Splash" web page a week ago.
> And it's not a cure for the industry, either. This is precisely the
> kind of project only long-time fans give a damn about.
Enough people are expected to care about it that Stan Lee's picture was
shown on the *front page* of USA Today. (The article itself was on page
1 of the Life section.
Jay Rudin
Edward Mathews
: [crossposted to rac.misc due to Stan Lee as creator, followups directed to
: rac.dc.universe]
: According to a story in USA Today at http://www.usatoday.com/life/lds027.htm
: Stan Lee will be writing a 12 issue story line for DC using multiple DCU
: characters, along with multiple artists. Said artists will include
: Jim Lee, Dave Gibbons, Joe Kubert and Bruce Timm with Adam Hughes doing
: all the covers.
Who greenlighted this mess? *sigh* And it will get media attention. And,
to paraphrase David Stepp, it will suck. And before you say another
thing: Backstreet Boys.
Ed (*shudder*) Mathews
*****Co-chair of QGSAS at NYU
**-----
* ---
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------
http://pages.nyu.edu/~em11/
"Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the
undertaker will be sorry." -Mark Twain
Edward Mathews
:>From: Eric Gimlin etgi...@nwlink.com
:>Miller back on Batman is not a cure for the industry. This might just
:>be. People know the name Stan Lee like no other creator, and the story
:>broke on USA TODAY, for crying out loud, instead of the comic web pages
:>and mags.
: It "broke" on Rick Veitch's "Splash" web page a week ago.
: And it's not a cure for the industry, either. This is precisely the kind of
: project only long-time fans give a damn about.
Stop it, Pat. You're making sense.
Ed (time is an asterisk) Mathews
Michael Deeley
OK. THis will be fun. It will be "neat" to see STan Lee's take on DC
characters. But it is still a 77-year old man rewriting characters up
to 60 years old. It's a big media push. IT's a sales event. It might
even get some people into a comic book shop for the first time in their
lives.
And what will they find there? The sme old super-hero stuff they
outgrew as kids.
If anyone has a chance to make the most of this, it's the shops. Here
is a hstily conceived and vague plan as to how:
1. Prominently advertise this mini-series, with the shop's name
attached in as many places as possible. Local newspapers, supermarket
bulletin boards, lampposts, whatever. IN fact, it wouldn't kill DC to
provide such ads, and help buy space in lcoal newspapers. After all,
it's their product too.
2. Location of the comic. PUt it in a prominent place on the shelves,
but NEXT TO other great books. Planetary, Avengers, Astro CIty, the
best the industry has to offer.
3. Prominently display Black and white and independent comics near the
shelves, or on the sales counter. Include back issues and TPB's.
Mention them to older readers who come in.
4. FOr GOd's sake, if a girl comes in, don't let her leave without
Castle Waiting or Sandman! We've GOT to get some estrogen in here!
5. Mention the shop's subscription services and discounts for regular
customers, if it has any. Maybe throw in a copy of DIamond COmics
Preveis order form.
IN short, when people come in for this book, show them everything comics
has to offer. SHow the stuff that's smart and fun for kids, the books
written by and for adults, and try to break the "boys only" myth.
OH, and hide the sexy women action figures.
And the pornographic manga.
We'll let them find out about that on their own!
Sidne G. Ward
>OK. THis will be fun. It will be "neat" to see STan Lee's take on DC
>characters. But it is still a 77-year old man rewriting characters up
>to 60 years old. It's a big media push. IT's a sales event. It might
>even get some people into a comic book shop for the first time in their
>lives.
Here's one big problem with the current media push, the books won't be
available for sale for months. I bet shops get calls today asking about
the issues. The general public is going to forget all about this by the
time the issues are actually published.
>And what will they find there? The sme old super-hero stuff they
>outgrew as kids.
>If anyone has a chance to make the most of this, it's the shops. Here
>is a hstily conceived and vague plan as to how:
A lot of people probably won't even go to a comic shop to look for the
books. If the books aren't available on the newsstand (as poor as the
distribution is there), DC's making a mistake. People will look at the
grocery store, the newsstand, the bookstore, and other places they go
anyway. Most of them won't even think there are such things as comic book
stores.
>1. Prominently advertise this mini-series, with the shop's name
>attached in as many places as possible. Local newspapers, supermarket
>bulletin boards, lampposts, whatever. IN fact, it wouldn't kill DC to
>provide such ads, and help buy space in lcoal newspapers. After all,
>it's their product too.
This is actually a good idea. I hope DC does provide some co-op money for
ads when the books are published.
>4. FOr GOd's sake, if a girl comes in, don't let her leave without
>Castle Waiting or Sandman! We've GOT to get some estrogen in here!
I personally hate this, BTW. I can't tell you how many times I've been
directed to the Sandman (or Archie) box just because I'm a woman.
Sidne Gail Ward
sw...@primenet.com
Join fellow LSH and other comic fans in Las Vegas July 6-9!
See http://www.primenet.com/~sward/saturngirl/lsh/lsg4.htm for details.
David W. Stepp
<em...@is3.nyu.edu> wrote:
> : And it's not a cure for the industry, either. This is precisely the kind of
> : project only long-time fans give a damn about.
>
> Stop it, Pat. You're making sense.
Don't be ridiculous.
1) I doubt many long-time fans particularly give a shit about Stan Lee.
I know I don't.
2) I don't think anyone has any expectation that this is anything other
than a stunt to draw some attention of Marvel geekoids to DC. Stan Lee has
not written anything signiciant in 20 years or more. I don't think anyone
has any illusions about what the quality of this is going to be.
3) If this has any impact at all, it will almost certainly be outside
the traditional market. I have a hard time believing that Stan will update
himself on modern continuity and will just write a bunch of stories/issue
about his take on the characters with no reference to the larger shared
universe at all. I wouldn't be surpised if it even got it's own "imprint".
Last I checked, this is what Pattycakes has been clamoring for all along.
Of course, he thinks of himself as a long-time fan.
D.
Pat ONeill
>Enough people are expected to care about it that Stan Lee's picture was
>shown on the *front page* of USA Today. (The article itself was on page
>1 of the Life section.
>
Curiousity item; a nostalgia charge for baby-boomers.
Best, Pat
Eric Gimlin
> >From: Eric Gimlin etgi...@nwlink.com
> >Miller back on Batman is not a cure for the industry. This might just
> >be. People know the name Stan Lee like no other creator, and the story
> >broke on USA TODAY, for crying out loud, instead of the comic web pages
> >and mags.
> It "broke" on Rick Veitch's "Splash" web page a week ago.
Ah. It missed Daily Buzz, Comic Book Resources, or any mention on
RAC.DCU or RAC.MISC- and most good rumors make it to RAC pretty quickly.
How much info, other than repeating the fairly long-standing theory that
it could and probably would happen now that Stan was non-exclusive at
Marvel, did Splash have?
> And it's not a cure for the industry, either.
Despite my earlier comment, I agree with you on this one- I was just
suggesting it was more likely to get more people into the stores than
DARK KNIGHT II, and had a higher profile, as shown by the early report
in USA TODAY.
> This is precisely the kind of
> project only long-time fans give a damn about.
I would agree with you in a very qualified sense on this one- I think
the major appeal is to long-term fans, but that it (may) include the
fans that haven't bought comics in years.
And, as always, in real life we'll just have to wait and see.
Eric Gimlin
Jeff Harris
they suck or if they're great?
JPH
--
Edward Mathews <em...@is3.nyu.edu> wrote in message
news:dz%I4.9$nB5...@typhoon.nyu.edu...
> Who greenlighted this mess? *sigh* And it will get media attention. And,
> to paraphrase David Stepp, it will suck. And before you say another
> thing: Backstreet Boys.
>
> Ed (*shudder*) Mathews
David W. Stepp
<jeffrey...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> Why prejudge this idea? Why not read the books first, and then decide if
> they suck or if they're great?
To save money?
D.
Ralf Haring
Yes, I'd hate to actually pick up a book and be entertained.
-Ralf Haring
"The mind must be the harder, the heart the keener,
the spirit the greater, as our strength grows less."
-Byrhtwold, The Battle of Maldon
Edward Mathews
: Why prejudge this idea? Why not read the books first, and then decide if
: they suck or if they're great?
: JPH
Because decent new talent and ideas are being ignored. Because new ideas
are being shot down on a daily basis because TPTB keep recycling age old
crap that doesn't work in this era. Superheroes work in mainstream
media... they just look like Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Given the few
things I've seen from Stan Lee on his web site, I have no illusions that
his take on Superman will be anything short of crap, true believer.
Ed (going to go read Finder again) Mathews
David W. Stepp
> "David W. Stepp" wrote:
> >
> > In article <8d2p9j$ro4$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, "Jeff Harris"
> > <jeffrey...@mindspring.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Why prejudge this idea? Why not read the books first, and then decide if
> > > they suck or if they're great?
> >
> > To save money?
>
> Yes, I'd hate to actually pick up a book and be entertained.
How would you like to pick it up and find out it sucks? How much would
you pay to be not entertained? How much would you pay to be outright
insulted? I promise to give you a discount for RAC*. participation.
I know there are people in the world that such blind morons they will
give DC money for anything but I think DC would do a lot better in the
world if they tried to actually market to everyone else.
And lest you start snivelling, I am not dismissing the idea out of hand
but I have seen enough of Stan Lee's more recent projects to make me read
reviews and wait for the TPB.
D.
Edward Mathews
: In article <yC%I4.10$nB5...@typhoon.nyu.edu>, Edward Mathews
: <em...@is3.nyu.edu> wrote:
:> : And it's not a cure for the industry, either. This is precisely the kind of
:> : project only long-time fans give a damn about.
:>
:> Stop it, Pat. You're making sense.
: Don't be ridiculous.
: 1) I doubt many long-time fans particularly give a shit about Stan Lee.
: I know I don't.
Define long-time fans. Current die-hards, or the millions who were buying
them in Marvel's heyday?
: 2) I don't think anyone has any expectation that this is anything other
: than a stunt to draw some attention of Marvel geekoids to DC. Stan Lee has
: not written anything signiciant in 20 years or more. I don't think anyone
: has any illusions about what the quality of this is going to be.
One would hope. Mainstream media is good at making comic "events" more
than what they are. Superman is dead. Long live Superman.
: 3) If this has any impact at all, it will almost certainly be outside
: the traditional market. I have a hard time believing that Stan will update
: himself on modern continuity and will just write a bunch of stories/issue
: about his take on the characters with no reference to the larger shared
: universe at all. I wouldn't be surpised if it even got it's own "imprint".
: Last I checked, this is what Pattycakes has been clamoring for all along.
: Of course, he thinks of himself as a long-time fan.
It's Dan Jurgens' Tanget if Stan Lee wrote it. Who knew?
Ed (that sure lit up the industry!) Mathews
Jay Rudin
> How much would you pay to be outright insulted? I promise to give you
> a discount for RAC*. participation.
Discount? This is RACDU -- I can have insult for free.
Jay Rudin
R. Tang
David W. Stepp <dst...@NOSPAMpost.its.mcw.edu> wrote:
>In article <8d2p9j$ro4$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, "Jeff Harris"
><jeffrey...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>> Why prejudge this idea? Why not read the books first, and then decide if
>> they suck or if they're great?
>
> To save money?
Not very efficient; I read 'em in the store then decide.
If I prejudge 'em, I warp my critical faculties.
>
> D.
--
-Roger Tang, gwan...@u.washington.edu, Artistic Director PC Theatre
- Editor, Asian American Theatre Revue [NEW URL]
- http://www.abcflash.com/a&e/r_tang/AATR.html
-Declared 4-F in the War Between the Sexes
Michael Payton
<etgi...@nwlink.com> wrote:
> Tom Galloway wrote:
>
> > Yeesh. Miller returns to Daredevil and Dark Knight Returns. Ellison does
> > a Batman story. Stan Lee and John Buscema doing Superman. Where was all
> > this stuff back on April 1st?
>
> It's official. Hell has frozen over. People have been discussing how
> Miller back on Batman is not a cure for the industry. This might just
> be. People know the name Stan Lee like no other creator, and the story
> broke on USA TODAY, for crying out loud, instead of the comic web pages
> and mags. Not just that they picked it up, but the report started
> there. This will get a lot of attention, the question is will the
> industry be able to do anything with it. (And yes, I'll be one of the
> thousands fighting to be first in line for the book.)
>
Hey! No ditching in line!! :-)
--
Those who shall lay eyes on a Gundam, shall not live to tell it.
Mobile Suit Gundam Wing
5:30pm & Midnight (Uncut) EST
Toonami
Michael Payton
patdo...@aol.comnospam (Pat ONeill) wrote:
> >From: Eric Gimlin etgi...@nwlink.com
>
> >Miller back on Batman is not a cure for the industry. This might just
> >be. People know the name Stan Lee like no other creator, and the story
> >broke on USA TODAY, for crying out loud, instead of the comic web pages
> >and mags.
>
> It "broke" on Rick Veitch's "Splash" web page a week ago.
>
> And it's not a cure for the industry, either. This is precisely the kind of
> project only long-time fans give a damn about.
>
>
And the wet blanket of the day award goes to....
... nah. Sometimes, it's just too easy. ;-)
Michael Payton
dst...@NOSPAMpost.its.mcw.edu (David W. Stepp) wrote:
> In article <yC%I4.10$nB5...@typhoon.nyu.edu>, Edward Mathews
> <em...@is3.nyu.edu> wrote:
>
> > : And it's not a cure for the industry, either. This is precisely the
kind of
> > : project only long-time fans give a damn about.
> >
> > Stop it, Pat. You're making sense.
>
> Don't be ridiculous.
>
> 1) I doubt many long-time fans particularly give a shit about Stan Lee.
> I know I don't.
>
> 2) I don't think anyone has any expectation that this is anything other
> than a stunt to draw some attention of Marvel geekoids to DC. Stan Lee has
> not written anything signiciant in 20 years or more. I don't think anyone
> has any illusions about what the quality of this is going to be.
>
> 3) If this has any impact at all, it will almost certainly be outside
> the traditional market. I have a hard time believing that Stan will update
> himself on modern continuity and will just write a bunch of stories/issue
> about his take on the characters with no reference to the larger shared
> universe at all. I wouldn't be surpised if it even got it's own "imprint".
> Last I checked, this is what Pattycakes has been clamoring for all along.
> Of course, he thinks of himself as a long-time fan.
>
> D.
meee-oww. Consider decaf man. seriously.
Michael Payton
> : In article <yC%I4.10$nB5...@typhoon.nyu.edu>, Edward Mathews
> : <em...@is3.nyu.edu> wrote:
>
> :> : And it's not a cure for the industry, either. This is precisely the
kind of
> :> : project only long-time fans give a damn about.
> :>
> :> Stop it, Pat. You're making sense.
>
> : Don't be ridiculous.
>
> : 1) I doubt many long-time fans particularly give a shit about Stan Lee.
> : I know I don't.
>
More for me then. :-)
>
> : 2) I don't think anyone has any expectation that this is anything other
> : than a stunt to draw some attention of Marvel geekoids to DC. Stan Lee has
> : not written anything signiciant in 20 years or more. I don't think anyone
> : has any illusions about what the quality of this is going to be.
If I'm expecting Watchmen, then yeah, I might be disappointed. But I'm
expecting a really fun read without having to buy 27 other comics that
month to understand what's going on, then I suspect Stan won't let me
down.
Ralf Haring
>
> How would you like to pick it up and find out it sucks?
I would love very much to pick up a book before deciding if I should
actually buy it or not. That's why I look at the product in the store
and *then* either put it back on the shelf or take it with me to the
counter.
> And lest you start snivelling, I am not dismissing the idea out of hand
> but I have seen enough of Stan Lee's more recent projects to make me read
> reviews and wait for the TPB.
Ah. So why answer this question "Why prejudge this idea? Why not read
the books first, and then decide if they suck or if they're great?" with
this "To save money?" Seems like you're dismissing the idea out of hand
to me.
Mikel Midnight
<grap...@aol.comjunk> wrote:
> >OK, all in favor of having Julie Schwartz take over Spider-Man...:-)
>
> I'll take some mort weisinger x-men over this way.
Is Weisinger even still alive?
I do vote, however, that when the current maestro of the X-titles loses
interest, they hand them all over to Bob Haney.
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
"She always had a terrific sense of humor" Mikel Midnight
(Valerie Solonas, as described by her mother)
blak...@best.com
______________________________________http://www.best.com/~blaklion/comics.html
morgan thomas
Tom Galloway <t...@netcom.com> wrote in message
news:8d11ha$507$1...@slb0.atl.mindspring.net...
> [crossposted to rac.misc due to Stan Lee as creator, followups directed to
> rac.dc.universe]
>
> a Batman story. Stan Lee and John Buscema doing Superman. Where was all
> this stuff back on April 1st?
>
http://www.usatoday.com/life/lds027.htm
> Stan Lee will be writing a 12 issue story line for DC using multiple DCU
> characters, along with multiple artists. Said artists will include
> Jim Lee, Dave Gibbons, Joe Kubert and Bruce Timm with Adam Hughes doing
> all the covers.
>
> Superman" [OK, so I think the titles need some serious work...] late
> this year, the issues will be "bound, slick-paper" (no price announced)
> and are said to be a "complete rethinking of the entire DC Comics
> mythology", with characters including Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash,
> Green Lantern, the JLA, and Sandman (yes, Sandman. No other details on
> that one).
Oh dear god. Visions of "Nothing can stop the sophomoric silioques of
Morpheus, the one, true, Sandman!" to a background of churning Kirby
machines have filled my troubled mind. If this is half as bad as I expect it
to be...
morgan thomas
Sidne G. Ward <sw...@primenet.com> wrote in message
news:8d2aok$2k5$1...@nnrp03.primenet.com...
So, what, you prefer the adolescant power fantasies that make up most of the
mainstream comics?
morgan thomas
Michael Deeley <dee...@purdue.edu> wrote in message
news:38F49F5E...@purdue.edu...
>
>
> OK. THis will be fun. It will be "neat" to see STan Lee's take on DC
> characters. But it is still a 77-year old man rewriting characters up
> to 60 years old. It's a big media push. IT's a sales event. It might
> even get some people into a comic book shop for the first time in their
> lives.
>
> outgrew as kids.
>
> If anyone has a chance to make the most of this, it's the shops. Here
> is a hstily conceived and vague plan as to how:
>
> attached in as many places as possible. Local newspapers, supermarket
> bulletin boards, lampposts, whatever. IN fact, it wouldn't kill DC to
> provide such ads, and help buy space in lcoal newspapers. After all,
> it's their product too.
>
> but NEXT TO other great books. Planetary, Avengers, Astro CIty, the
> best the industry has to offer.
From Hell, the Invisibles, and other non superhero books would be a good
idea too. It would be nice to show the world the actual literature being
done in comics.
Todd Kogutt: Scavenger
make fun of comic fans and anyone who might care about this. What was
rather humerous about it was that the previous segment was him
interviewing a man who will be playing a character created by Stan Lee
this summer, Patrick Stewart
---SCAVENGER
Pat ONeill
>Why prejudge this idea? Why not read the books first, and then decide if
>they suck or if they're great?
I'm not prejudging the content itself; that's a separate issue from whether the
concept is sellable to the non-fan public.
Best, Pat
in_vale...@hotmail.com
Hmm, this doesn't seem to make sense. You are judging the concept, and
in the negative. But the mainstream non-fan media gave this Stan
Lee/DC project attention, as compared to say Wizard's Gatecrasher or
even DC redirection of the Batman titles. They did find it of interest.
Not quite the same as "sellable", I suppose. That's for some good PR
handling, to get the project back in that mainstream non-fan media when
it's actually on the stands. That'll be a surprise, if so. All the
publishers have been terrible at promoting their products. Real
businesses advertise. Ads in Previews catalog and their own comics are
preaching to the choir.
scott tilson.
--------------------
Recommended: LEGENDS OF THE DC UNIVERSE #28-29 by Steven Grant & Gil
Kane.
http://www.dccomics.com/directcurrents/comics/mar15/ldcu28.htm
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Elayne Riggs
> And the wet blanket of the day award goes to....
> ... nah. Sometimes, it's just too easy. ;-)
Oh, I don't know. Sometimes it seems like the majority of folks on the
rac* newsgroups are wet blankets when it comes to prejudging upcoming
comics projects... :)
- Elayne
Elayne Riggs
> I'm not prejudging the content itself; that's a separate issue from whether the
> concept is sellable to the non-fan public.
I agree. Nonetheless, I disagree with you about the saleability of just
about ANY Stan Lee-involved project. Sheesh, look what happened with that
Backstreet-Boys-as-superheroes thing; good luck finding any issues of
that, not even some of the creators who worked on it were able to get
copies! Stan Lee is still very media-savvy, still generates more
publicity for superhero comics than anyone else out there, particularly
among the "non-fan public," and frankly most of that non-fan public
couldn't tell you which superheroes are Marvel and which are DC anyway,
they're just gonna check it out because that Stan Lee guy is wacky. :)
- Elayne
Bill Roper
>>
>> In article <8d2p9j$ro4$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, "Jeff Harris"
>> <jeffrey...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>> > they suck or if they're great?
>>
>
>Yes, I'd hate to actually pick up a book and be entertained.
I hate to pick up a book and be annoyed. That's why I don't buy Legion
Lost or Green Lantern.
If you think that you're not likely to enjoy a book based on what you know
about it, why spend money on it in order to be annoyed? If it turns out
that you're really missing something great, there's likely to be a TPB.
Failing that, there are back issues.
Based on what Stepp's seen of Stan Lee's recent writing, he expects the
books to be turkeys. He may be right.
I must admit, though, that I'm tempted to buy them...
--
Bill Roper, ro...@xnet.com
Drew Melbourne
good. It's a novelty to have Stan Lee revamp DC characters, and it might
be kind of fun. If you can't see why it's a cool idea, then it's probably
not for you.
I'm reminded of an article I read in THE VILLAGE VOICE the other day about
a guy who'd invented LPs that you can record visuals on. Completely
useless, yes. But undeniably cool, and something I'd buy if I had the
money for it.
--
NOTE TO SELF: Need to create a less self-referential .sig file.
niallmc
idea.
People seem to assume that Stan's over the hill simply because
he's not thirty anymore. From all I've heard and seen of him in
the last few years, he's remarkably keyed into the industry, and
in my humble opinion, he's still got it.
As for Stan does Sandman? Bring it on! I'll read it if nobody
else does.
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Elayne Riggs
> I'm just wondering why everyone's being so hostile towards the
> idea.
New here, are you? :)
- Elayne
Bryan Harris
<nmccan99...@stumail.dkit.ie.invalid> wrote:
>I'm just wondering why everyone's being so hostile towards the
>idea.
Well, it's not exactly the freshest idea since putting blood
in the printing ink; it's essentially Tangent Comics with a
big name attached.
Also, I get the feeling that some people here perceive
and place great value in a subtle difference in basic
sensibility between DC's comics and Marvel's, and they
see this as a cheesy "Marvelization" of comics that didn't
need any Marvel influence.
>People seem to assume that Stan's over the hill simply because
>he's not thirty anymore. From all I've heard and seen of him in
>the last few years, he's remarkably keyed into the industry, and
>in my humble opinion, he's still got it.
Yeah, he's proven extraordinarily canny at producing a
marketable image, but people are thinking of other things.
Historical revisionism has minimized his role in the creation
of Marvel in favor of the artists he worked with, and years
spent serving as the public face for the beast that is Marvel
may have caused his skills to atrophy. I haven't heard
anything positive about the "Ravage 2099" series he
wrote several years ago.
>As for Stan does Sandman? Bring it on! I'll read it if nobody
>else does.
I'm interested too, mainly because it promises to be
damned odd. The preview art for the Superman project bore no
resemblance to any Superman I'm familiar with, and that
appeals to me. I'm tired of tepid little stories about
Kal-El becoming Superman regardless of whether his rocket
landed in the Gobi Desert or Amish Pennsylvania. Bizarre,
unpredictable interpretations of these basic concepts are
what the Elseworlds label _should_ be used for.
-Bryan Harris
eternally
Pat ONeill wrote:
> >From: Jay Rudin jru...@americasm01.nt.com
>
> >Enough people are expected to care about it that Stan Lee's picture was
> >shown on the *front page* of USA Today. (The article itself was on page
> >1 of the Life section.
> >
>
> Curiousity item; a nostalgia charge for baby-boomers.
>
> Best, Pat
or, alternatively, Pat is wrong. you decide.
-= e.
--
"...what is fiction, if not the investment of
some spark of reality...into the character?" - Peter David
eternally
Ralf Haring wrote:
> "David W. Stepp" wrote:
> >
> > How would you like to pick it up and find out it sucks?
>
> I would love very much to pick up a book before deciding if I should
> actually buy it or not. That's why I look at the product in the store
> and *then* either put it back on the shelf or take it with me to the
> counter.
so, are you one of those people who buys a book just based
on the art...? or are you one of those *really* annoying people
who stand in front of the New Releases rack at the comic
store and read the comic while other people are just trying to
get by to grab the issue and be on their way...?
-= e.
R. Tang
eternally <eternally*removethis*@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Pat ONeill wrote:
>
>> >From: Jay Rudin jru...@americasm01.nt.com
>>
>> >Enough people are expected to care about it that Stan Lee's picture was
>> >shown on the *front page* of USA Today. (The article itself was on page
>> >1 of the Life section.
>> >
>>
>> Curiousity item; a nostalgia charge for baby-boomers.
>>
>> Best, Pat
>
>or, alternatively, Pat is wrong. you decide.
Ummmm....you can certainly build a bank account by marketing to
the nostalgic tastes of baby boomers. And if you're good enough, you can
sustain it.
>"...what is fiction, if not the investment of
>some spark of reality...into the character?" - Peter David
>
>
eternally
morgan thomas wrote:
> Sidne G. Ward <sw...@primenet.com> wrote in message
> >
> > I personally hate this, BTW. I can't tell you how many times I've been
> > directed to the Sandman (or Archie) box just because I'm a woman.
>
> So, what, you prefer the adolescant power fantasies that make up most of the
> mainstream comics?
is the only choice either-or...?
-= e.
R. Tang
eternally <eternally*removethis*@hotmail.com> wrote:
>so, are you one of those people who buys a book just based
>on the art...? or are you one of those *really* annoying people
>who stand in front of the New Releases rack at the comic
>store and read the comic while other people are just trying to
>get by to grab the issue and be on their way...?
"Annoying" is my middle name....
Rob Merritt
Melbourne) wrote:
>I'm reminded of an article I read in THE VILLAGE VOICE the other day about
>a guy who'd invented LPs that you can record visuals on. Completely
>useless, yes. But undeniably cool, and something I'd buy if I had the
>money for it.
Wasn't the RCA disk player back in the early 80's basically the same
thing.
Rob Merritt
aka Baron Calamity
------
Gaming, My family, Micronauts, Lego, and all about me me me me at:
http://rcmerritt.homestead.com
eternally
"R. Tang" wrote:
> In article <38F62528...@hotmail.com>,
> eternally <eternally*removethis*@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >Pat ONeill wrote:
> >
> >> >From: Jay Rudin jru...@americasm01.nt.com
> >>
> >> >Enough people are expected to care about it that Stan Lee's picture was
> >> >shown on the *front page* of USA Today. (The article itself was on page
> >> >1 of the Life section.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Curiousity item; a nostalgia charge for baby-boomers.
> >>
> >> Best, Pat
> >
> >or, alternatively, Pat is wrong. you decide.
>
> Ummmm....you can certainly build a bank account by marketing to
> the nostalgic tastes of baby boomers. And if you're good enough, you can
> sustain it.
to elaborate -- Pat's position seemed to be discounting the
mainstream media coverage, my post was contradicting him,
saying that it's possible Pat is wrong and it's not *only* a
nostalgia item for baby boomers.
i don't think anyone is arguing that it won't be that at all.
-= e.
Edward Mathews
: People seem to assume that Stan's over the hill simply because
: he's not thirty anymore. From all I've heard and seen of him in
: the last few years, he's remarkably keyed into the industry, and
: in my humble opinion, he's still got it.
I'm assuming no such thing. I'm looking at his web site media output.
Ed (ick) Mathews
*****Co-chair of QGSAS at NYU
**-----
* ---
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------
http://pages.nyu.edu/~em11/
"Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the
undertaker will be sorry." -Mark Twain
Michael Payton
<fire...@panix.com> wrote:
If Stan can generate this much publicity with this sort of thing, imagine
what he could do if he ever buys Marvel. "non-fan" folks might actually
start to find & enjoy comics again. :-)
Michael Payton
<fire...@panix.com> wrote:
> niallmc <nmccan99...@stumail.dkit.ie.invalid> happened to mention:
> > I'm just wondering why everyone's being so hostile towards the
> > idea.
>
> New here, are you? :)
>
> - Elayne
This place could get pissy about a bright Summer day. :-)
Michael Payton
<misterexcitem...@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
> Historical revisionism has minimized his role in the creation
> of Marvel in favor of the artists he worked with, and years
> spent serving as the public face for the beast that is Marvel
> may have caused his skills to atrophy. I haven't heard
> anything positive about the "Ravage 2099" series he
> wrote several years ago.
>
Here's one for you then. I enjoyed it. It's not Watchmen, but then again
neither was his run on Spider-man. Not every comic needs to be socially
relevant or filled with angst to be good. Sometimes mindless action comics
with a bit of humor can be a heckuva lotta fun. Why do you think Ben Grimm
is the most popular character in the FF? :-)
Edward Mathews
: This place could get pissy about a bright Summer day. :-)
With no sunscreen? Are you mad? That's how people get skin cancer!
Ed (pissy) Mathews
Phil Sunde
Payton) wrote:
>In article <8d4uks$2l6$1...@news.panix.com>, Elayne Riggs
><fire...@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> niallmc <nmccan99...@stumail.dkit.ie.invalid> happened to mention:
>> > I'm just wondering why everyone's being so hostile towards the
>> > idea.
>>
>> New here, are you? :)
>>
>> - Elayne
>
>This place could get pissy about a bright Summer day. :-)
You know, when >I< started reading comics, a bright summer day only
took >one< issue, none of these stupid crossovers.
Phil
Ralf Haring
>
> so, are you one of those people who buys a book just based
> on the art...? or are you one of those *really* annoying people
> who stand in front of the New Releases rack at the comic
> store and read the comic while other people are just trying to
> get by to grab the issue and be on their way...?
No, I don't just buy them for the art, although there a few artists for
whose work I would buy a comic because they have hardly ever
disappointed me with their endeavors. As for stanfing in front of the
New Releases rack and reading comics, no I don't do that. I get the
books on my pull list, go over to the racks and see if there's anything
else halfway interesting. I'll usually pick up a book or two, then step
back a bit and flip through them to decide whether or not to buy them.
-Ralf Haring
"The mind must be the harder, the heart the keener,
the spirit the greater, as our strength grows less."
-Byrhtwold, The Battle of Maldon
Duggy
Elayne Riggs <fire...@panix.com> wrote:
> Stan Lee is still very media-savvy, still generates more
> publicity for superhero comics than anyone else out there,
> particularly
> among the "non-fan public," and frankly most of that non-fan public
> couldn't tell you which superheroes are Marvel and which are DC
> anyway,
> they're just gonna check it out because that Stan Lee guy is wacky. :)
That reminds me of last time Stan Lee visited Australia and the local
paper reused a photo of him with Batman and Spiderman cut-outs from the
Marvel vs DC event... with the caption "Stan Lee with two of the
characters he created"
---
- Dug.
---
I didn't do it,
Nobody saw me do it,
You can't prove anything.
---
Duggy
mpa...@netwalk.com (Michael Payton) wrote:
> This place could get pissy about a bright Summer day. :-)
Don't talk to me about bright Summer days, I live in the tropics, and
we hope for Cyclones just for the change of weather.
---
ObDCU: If you look at the weather in the DCU... (after the 12 year
rule has been applied) they must have really on seasons there... ;)
Kenmlin
butler "Uncle" Ben is killed by a burgler?
Ken
Dan H.
Supermen won't even be from Krypton. It sounds like he's taking the
powers, and making Marvel-type characters out of them.
I'm not looking forward to this. :-(
--Dan
"There's a fine line between a Hobby and a mental illness." --Dave Barry
<<<If you are interested in earning MONEY, FREQUENT FLYER MILES, FREE
DSL SERVICE, or other rewards, just for the websurfing you do now,
e-mail me privately, and I'll give you some honest referrals to services
I am using. >>>
Elayne Riggs
> If Stan can generate this much publicity with this sort of thing, imagine
> what he could do if he ever buys Marvel. "non-fan" folks might actually
> start to find & enjoy comics again. :-)
There's no question that Stan's still The Man with most non-comics readers
out there. Every time my parents (who evince no interest in the medium
despite the fact that it generates over half our household income)
actually initiate a conversation with me about comics, the first sentence
is inevitably "Did you hear about that thing with Stan Lee?" as if Robin
or I wouldn't have known about it. :) They just did that again last
night, so the word has gotten out about this to the general public in a
major way-- always the first step towards selling something.
- Elayne
Sidne G. Ward
>Michael Payton <mpa...@netwalk.com> happened to mention:
>> If Stan can generate this much publicity with this sort of thing, imagine
>> what he could do if he ever buys Marvel. "non-fan" folks might actually
>> start to find & enjoy comics again. :-)
>There's no question that Stan's still The Man with most non-comics readers
>out there.
I'd amend this to read "..with most former comics readers..". In my
experience, people who *never* read comics have no idea who Stan Lee is.
OTOH, lots of baby boomers did read comics back in the 1960s and remember
Stan Lee quite fondly. The number one question I am asked when colleagues
and other acquaintances find out I collect comics and regularly attend
comic conventions is "Have you ever met Stan Lee?"
I think some of *those* people may very well be interested in reading
these books. But I'm not sure they'll pick up anything else or become
regular readers again.
Sidne Gail Ward
sw...@primenet.com
Join fellow LSH and other comic book fans in Las Vegas July 6-9!
See: http://www.primenet.com/~sward/saturngirl/lsh/lsg4.htm for details.
Elayne Riggs
> Elayne Riggs <fire...@panix.com> writes:
>>Michael Payton <mpa...@netwalk.com> happened to mention:
>>> If Stan can generate this much publicity with this sort of thing, imagine
>>> what he could do if he ever buys Marvel. "non-fan" folks might actually
>>> start to find & enjoy comics again. :-)
>>There's no question that Stan's still The Man with most non-comics readers
>>out there.
> I'd amend this to read "..with most former comics readers..". In my
> experience, people who *never* read comics have no idea who Stan Lee is.
Suffice it to say our experiences differ. My parents and most of my
immediate family have never read comics, and Stan Lee is about the only
name they recognize.
- Elayne
Dale Hicks
> The number one question I am asked when colleagues
> and other acquaintances find out I collect comics and regularly attend
> comic conventions is "Have you ever met Stan Lee?"
So, ....?
--
Cranial Crusader dgh...@bellsouth.net
BHMarks
>I don't get this attitude. It's an Elseworld. It's not going to ruin the
>
>DC Universe, or change major characters in the "regular" continuity. It's
>
>supposed to be a fun story. Why complain? If you aren't looking forward
>
>to it, don't buy it. It won't affect anything else.
You know, although I'm curious about how these are going to turn out, and will
probably buy some of them, I'm not too sure about the "it won't affect anything
else" line of thought.
Anything in comic books that gets a lot of media attention - either because
it's great work or because of more "external" circumstances - tends to become
The Next Big (i.e., Trendy) Thing.
TV influences are the best example of this (because of TV's huge audience).
The Batman TV show completely overwhelmed Batman comics, changing their nature
completely. When a Wonder Woman TV show was set in WW II, the Wonder Woman
comic shifted its attention to the Earth-2 Wonder Woman, just to match - then
scrambled to shift back after the TV show was cancelled.
Everyone has their own opinion on whether these were good changes (for the
individual stories, for the comics industry, etc.), but no one can deny the
influences. Similarly, THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS and WATCHMEN may have been
*great* works (EMMV), but they also shifted the industry towards imitations for
years.
Stan Lee's DC comics may very well have an effect on the DC line - on its
emphasis, trends, general shape, etc. For people who see them as "just another
marketing stunt", this may not be a good thing. Other people may see it as the
saving of the industry.
As ever,
Bennet
Michael Payton
<fire...@panix.com> wrote:
> Michael Payton <mpa...@netwalk.com> happened to mention:
>
> > If Stan can generate this much publicity with this sort of thing, imagine
> > what he could do if he ever buys Marvel. "non-fan" folks might actually
> > start to find & enjoy comics again. :-)
>
> There's no question that Stan's still The Man with most non-comics readers
> out there. Every time my parents (who evince no interest in the medium
> despite the fact that it generates over half our household income)
> actually initiate a conversation with me about comics, the first sentence
> is inevitably "Did you hear about that thing with Stan Lee?" as if Robin
> or I wouldn't have known about it. :) They just did that again last
> night, so the word has gotten out about this to the general public in a
> major way-- always the first step towards selling something.
>
My grandmother can't remember Batman's real name, but she knows who Stan
Lee is. ;-)
Michael Payton
real...@excite.com (Laura Gjovaag) wrote:
> LEA...@webtv.net (Dan H.) scribbled these words:
>
> >I'm not looking forward to this. :-(
>
> I don't get this attitude. It's an Elseworld. It's not going to ruin the
> DC Universe, or change major characters in the "regular" continuity. It's
> supposed to be a fun story. Why complain? If you aren't looking forward
> to it, don't buy it. It won't affect anything else.
>
> I'm very eager to see what ideas come from Stan, and I'm curious if he will
> rehash ideas from Marvel at all, or do something completely different. I'm
> looking forward to this Elseworld like I haven't looked forward to an
> Elseworld in a long time. It sounds like fun.
This sounds like the first Elseworld series in a while that sounds
interesting. "Superman in the USSR" "Superman in the Civil War" "Batman in
drag".... zzzzzzzzz. "Stan Lee creates Superman" I'm awake for that one.
:-)
Ok, I might buy the Batman in Drag. ;-)
Michael Payton
(BHMarks) wrote:
> >From: real...@excite.com (Laura Gjovaag)
>
> >I don't get this attitude. It's an Elseworld. It's not going to ruin the
> >
> >DC Universe, or change major characters in the "regular" continuity. It's
> >
> >supposed to be a fun story. Why complain? If you aren't looking forward
> >
> >to it, don't buy it. It won't affect anything else.
>
> You know, although I'm curious about how these are going to turn out, and will
> probably buy some of them, I'm not too sure about the "it won't affect
anything
> else" line of thought.
>
> Anything in comic books that gets a lot of media attention - either because
> it's great work or because of more "external" circumstances - tends to become
> The Next Big (i.e., Trendy) Thing.
>
> TV influences are the best example of this (because of TV's huge audience).
> The Batman TV show completely overwhelmed Batman comics, changing their nature
> completely. When a Wonder Woman TV show was set in WW II, the Wonder Woman
> comic shifted its attention to the Earth-2 Wonder Woman, just to match - then
> scrambled to shift back after the TV show was cancelled.
>
> Everyone has their own opinion on whether these were good changes (for the
> individual stories, for the comics industry, etc.), but no one can deny the
> influences. Similarly, THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS and WATCHMEN may have been
> *great* works (EMMV), but they also shifted the industry towards
imitations for
> years.
>
> Stan Lee's DC comics may very well have an effect on the DC line - on its
> emphasis, trends, general shape, etc. For people who see them as "just
another
> marketing stunt", this may not be a good thing. Other people may see it
as the
> saving of the industry.
Excellent points. we've seen evidence of this just in the 90s. the Batman
movies had a big impact on the comics, and now both the Batman & Superman
lines are reshaping themselves (again) to be more like the cartoons. Hey,
the cartoon is why we got Batgirl & Harley Quinn comics.
Frankly, a re-invention of DC comics might not be a bad idea. It worked
pretty darn well when they did it in the late 50s/early 60s. Creating a
new young Batman DEFINATELY worked with the younger Batfans. (Which of the
Bat-toons are coming back this fall?) Hey, if Stan can't do something, I
say get Paul Dini to do it. :-)
Sidne G. Ward
>Sidne G. Ward <sw...@primenet.com> wrote in article <8d7kpi$ktg$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>...
>> The number one question I am asked when colleagues
>> and other acquaintances find out I collect comics and regularly attend
>> comic conventions is "Have you ever met Stan Lee?"
>So, ....?
I have met Stan Lee before, but it was very briefly at a San Diego Con a
number of years ago. When I get asked, I usually try to make a little bit
bigger deal about it than it actually was because those former Stan fans
seem to like it. :)
Sidne Gail Ward
sw...@primenet.com
Join fellow LSH and other comic fans in Las Vegas July 6-9!
Sidne G. Ward
>Sidne G. Ward <sw...@primenet.com> happened to mention:
>> Elayne Riggs <fire...@panix.com> writes:
>>>There's no question that Stan's still The Man with most non-comics readers
>>>out there.
>> I'd amend this to read "..with most former comics readers..". In my
>> experience, people who *never* read comics have no idea who Stan Lee is.
>Suffice it to say our experiences differ. My parents and most of my
>immediate family have never read comics, and Stan Lee is about the only
>name they recognize.
I'm impressed that people who have never read comics know who Stan Lee is.
Clearly the families of several posters in this thread are more up on pop
culture than my family. Or maybe Stan's just a better self-promoter than
I realized. :)
Sidne Gail Ward
sw...@primenet.com
Dan H.
>>I'm not looking forward to this. :-(
>I don't get this attitude. It's an Elseworld.
>It's not going to ruin the DC Universe, or
>change major characters in the "regular"
>continuity. It's supposed to be a fun
>story. Why complain? If you aren't
>looking forward to it, don't buy it. It won't
>affect anything else.
organizing a book-burning, here! :-) I probably will pick it up myself,
out of the same sort of morbid curiosity that compells people to watch a
car wreck, or compelled me to watch Lois & Clark. :-) And I am at least
a little optimistic that Lee may surprise me, and reward my curiosity
with a good story (he has before).
But I'm not looking forward to it because it doesn't sound like he's
going to be writing Superman. Oh, sure, he'll have the same name,
probably same powers, but everything else may be different. He said
himself, Supes won't be from Krypton, and implied that he won't even be
from another planet. Lee's Supes may have the right powers, but he won't
be the same character. And most such revisions are for the worse.
It falls into the same trap as most other Elseworlds. Sure, it's fun to
play with an iconic character, to see how it might have fit into other
roles; but ultimatly, if you change too much, it's a different
character, and all the names or powers in the world don't change that in
the mind of the reader.
It's like those annoying anthologies where they take a heroic character
like Robin Hood or King Arthur and invite a dozen or so authors to write
stories placing them in different settings. Invariably, most of the
writers change TOO much of the basic concept, and the result can only
work as a self-parody.
Or to put it another way, it sounds like a typical super-hero movie.
>I'm very eager to see what ideas come
>from Stan, and I'm curious if he will
>rehash ideas from Marvel at all, or do
>something completely different. I'm
>looking forward to this Elseworld like I
>haven't looked forward to an Elseworld in
>a long time. It sounds like fun.
It might be fun. It might just surprise me. The Tangent Superman sure
did. But, the odds are it'll fall nto the 90% part of Sturgeon's rule
(90% of everything is crap)
Michael Payton
LEA...@webtv.net (Dan H.) wrote:
> But I'm not looking forward to it because it doesn't sound like he's
> going to be writing Superman. Oh, sure, he'll have the same name,
> probably same powers, but everything else may be different. He said
> himself, Supes won't be from Krypton, and implied that he won't even be
> from another planet. Lee's Supes may have the right powers, but he won't
> be the same character.
That's the entire point of the series.
Michael Deeley
>
> >4. FOr GOd's sake, if a girl comes in, don't let her leave without
> >Castle Waiting or Sandman! We've GOT to get some estrogen in here!
>
> I personally hate this, BTW. I can't tell you how many times I've been
> directed to the Sandman (or Archie) box just because I'm a woman.
>
>
My apologies. I mean no disrespect. It is merely one of very few
comics I know of to have a significnt number of female fans.
Sidne G. Ward
No apologies necessary. I'd *much* rather a shop employee ask me what I
enjoy and try to make recommendations based on that rather than make
assumptions about what I might like based solely on my gender.
If a woman says she doesn't read any comics at all, the employee can ask
about taste in other forms of entertainment (books, movies, tv) to use as
a basis for the recommendations.
Just as all men who walk into comic shops don't read X-Men, all women
aren't going to enjoy Sandman.
Sidne Gail Ward
sw...@primenet.com
Join LSH and other comic fans in Las Vegas July 6-9!
Sir Deuce
"But I'm not looking forward to it because it doesn't sound like he's
going to be writing Superman. Oh, sure, he'll have the same name,
probably same powers, but everything else may be different. He said
himself, Supes won't be from Krypton, and implied that he won't even be
from another planet. Lee's Supes may have the right powers, but he won't
You've missed the whole point: this isn't "Stan Lee WRITES Superman."
This is "Stan Lee CREATES Superman." He'll have the same name, and
everything else is different. Think Tangent. You are obviously
confusing this with Elseworlds where it's the Superman we know in
different situations. Not so! A whole different conception of the
character, Stan Lee style! Whether it succeeds or not is another story.
"Be Generous...True...Just" ROBBY
> http://profiles.yahoo.com/sutsuj
Dan H.
>You've missed the whole point: this isn't
>"Stan Lee WRITES Superman." This is
>"Stan Lee CREATES Superman." He'll
>have the same name, and everything
>else is different. Think Tangent. You are
>obviously confusing this with Elseworlds
>where it's the Superman we know in
>different situations. Not so! A whole
>different conception of the character,
>Stan Lee style! Whether it succeeds or
>not is another story.
of how a similar project COULD surprise me by being GOOD. (you did read
the whole post before shooting off your response, didn't you?)
But when you get right down to it this is just a new character with the
same name. So, why even use the name? I mean, that draws an immediate
comparison, and in this case, I don't hold put much hope Stan's version
will fare well in that comparison.
Why not instead debute an all-new Stan Lee Creation Extroidinaire (tm
Stan Lee)? Because that wouldn't draw in the sales, like Stan does
Superman will. Stan's own creations don't have the same magic he once
gave them. I mean, have you LOOKED at the stuff on his site? Sure he did
classic stuff in the day, but his newest stuff, characters created
wholly by him, well, really stinks.
So, why should I look forward to him re-creating Superman? He won't be
Superman, so I can't look forward to it as a new take on Superman, or a
re-examination of the character. Nope, it's just a new character with an
old name. And by a creator with a poor recent record.
Sure he might just turn out a new classic, and knock my socks off. I'll
probably pick up the first one or two to see. But I'm not holding my
breath with anticipation.
Michael Payton
LEA...@webtv.net (Dan H.) wrote:
> Why not instead debute an all-new Stan Lee Creation Extroidinaire (tm
> Stan Lee)? Because that wouldn't draw in the sales, like Stan does
> Superman will.
WHAT? You mean DC might want to make $$ off of this?? the bastards!!!!! ;-)
morgan thomas
eternally <eternally*removethis*@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:38F62BCE...@hotmail.com...
>
> morgan thomas wrote:
>
> > Sidne G. Ward <sw...@primenet.com> wrote in message
> > >
> > > I personally hate this, BTW. I can't tell you how many times I've
been
> > > directed to the Sandman (or Archie) box just because I'm a woman.
> >
the
> > mainstream comics?
>
> is the only choice either-or...?
Well, to be quite honest, there isn't a lot of other choice. If you don't
like Sandman, chances are you're not going to like the simulairly styled
Invisibles, From Hell, and whatnot. And that really only leaves a precious
few slice-of-life books, Vertigo's harsher peices (Transmet, Preacher) some
humour comics, a few other things I've forgotten about, and a whole lot of,
with a few exceptions, rather tepid and uninspired stories about people in
tights hitting each other. I'm just happy that people are being led to the
Sandman box, regardless of gender.
Drew Melbourne
: So, why should I look forward to him re-creating Superman? He won't be
: Superman, so I can't look forward to it as a new take on Superman, or a
: re-examination of the character. Nope, it's just a new character with an
: old name. And by a creator with a poor recent record.
Because it's Stan Lee, creator of Spider-Man, the Incredible Hulk, the
Fantastic Four and the X-Men doing twelve comics about what the DC heroes,
including Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman, would be like if he created
them.
If that doesn't strike you as neat, then this probably isn't the project
for you. This isn't going to be the next WATCHMEN, people. The art will
probably be very nice, and the stories will be interesting, because it's
Stan Lee rethinking really famous characters. Whether it will be "good"
or not is almost an irrelevant question.
--
NOTE TO SELF: Need to create a less self-referential .sig file.
Tom Galloway
Sidne G. Ward <sw...@primenet.com> wrote:
>OTOH, lots of baby boomers did read comics back in the 1960s and remember
>and other acquaintances find out I collect comics and regularly attend
>comic conventions is "Have you ever met Stan Lee?"
Mileage apparently varies. I'm just a couple of years younger than Sidne
and generally prefer to be thought of as part of the cusp between the true
boomers and gen-x, and I can't recall ever being asked if I'd met Stan Lee.
Well, save for the time I did briefly meet him after the 1986 Harlan Ellison
Roast where he was a participant (i.e. "Tom, have you met Stan here?") :-)
The question I usually get asked is on the order of "Oh, I used to read
character X; what's happened with them?".
tyg t...@netcom.com
Aaron Mojo Hazouri or Bizarro No 1
>Stan Lee)? Because that wouldn't draw in the sales, like Stan does
>Superman will.
*GASP* Marketing strategy? HOW DARE THEY?!
Stan's own creations don't have the same magic he once
>gave them. I mean, have you LOOKED at the stuff on his site? Sure he did
>classic stuff in the day, but his newest stuff, characters created
>wholly by him, well, really stinks.
>
No worse than the sh*t in modern comics in general, except DC and Marvel's
current stuff has characters with names people recognize.
>So, why should I look forward to him re-creating Superman? He won't be
>Superman, so I can't look forward to it as a new take on Superman, or a
>re-examination of the character. Nope, it's just a new character with an
>old name. And by a creator with a poor recent record.
Kirby's later stuff was garbage, too (yes yes, we love Kirby, but Satan's
Six was Godawful, along with the other Topps stuff), but nobody dumped on
him... I'll buy the new Stan Lee stuff out of a) utter curiosity and b)
because I really like Stan Lee. Those sunglasses, that grin... Stan the MAN!
-------------------------------------------------
Flaming Carrot! ...A letter for you!
Bah! ...These chain letters!
Ha ha! No chain letter! ...Is from T.M. MAPLE! Good! ...He liked the last
issue!
Aaron Mojo Hazouri or Bizarro No 1
>with a few exceptions, rather tepid and uninspired stories about people in
>tights hitting each other.
Some of them have on armor, you know. And time was when some of them were
giant talking turtles...
-Aaron!
(Still mourning the loss of the TMNT comic...)
Aaron Mojo Hazouri or Bizarro No 1
>character X; what's happened with them?".
>
Heh I get asked "Do you still read that garbage?"
Second most popular question is "Why do you still read that garbage?"
The first one I can answer pretty easily...
-Aaron!
Mikel Midnight
<morgan...@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
> Well, to be quite honest, there isn't a lot of other choice. If you don't
> like Sandman, chances are you're not going to like the simulairly styled
> Invisibles, From Hell, and whatnot. And that really only leaves a precious
> few slice-of-life books, Vertigo's harsher peices (Transmet, Preacher) some
> humour comics, a few other things I've forgotten about, and a whole lot of,
> with a few exceptions, rather tepid and uninspired stories about people in
> tights hitting each other. I'm just happy that people are being led to the
> Sandman box, regardless of gender.
That's a rather dreary and inaccurate view of the contemporary comics
scene. That's also a peculiar way of classing books together: it would
never occur to me that Invisibles and From Hell would appeal to a
Sandman fan at all (some of them individually, sure, but not as a
group). If anything, I would steer a Sandman fan towards Eddie
Campbell's BACCHUS.
--
_______________________________________________________________________________
"She always had a terrific sense of humor" Mikel Midnight
(Valerie Solonas, as described by her mother)
blak...@best.com
______________________________________http://www.best.com/~blaklion/comics.html
Edward Mathews
: Kirby's later stuff was garbage, too (yes yes, we love Kirby, but Satan's
: Six was Godawful, along with the other Topps stuff), but nobody dumped on
: him... I'll buy the new Stan Lee stuff out of a) utter curiosity and b)
: because I really like Stan Lee. Those sunglasses, that grin... Stan the MAN!
I was just having a phone conversation with my ex-roommate from college
last night. He went on to art school in Philly and the teacher asked the
students how many knew of Jack Kirby. Only he and another student raised
their hands. You can't dump on what you don't recognize, true believer.
Kirby is like Bob Dylan. What a grand creator and I'm glad other people
cover his tunes, but goddamn the man can't sing.
Ed (who acknowledges the man's contributions, but didn't care for Kirby's
art) Mathews
*****Co-chair of QGSAS at NYU
**-----
* ---
-
-------------------------------------------------------------------
http://pages.nyu.edu/~em11/
"Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the
undertaker will be sorry." -Mark Twain
Sidne G. Ward
>In article <8d7kpi$ktg$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com>,
>Sidne G. Ward <sw...@primenet.com> wrote:
>>OTOH, lots of baby boomers did read comics back in the 1960s and remember
>>Stan Lee quite fondly. The number one question I am asked when colleagues
>>and other acquaintances find out I collect comics and regularly attend
>>comic conventions is "Have you ever met Stan Lee?"
>Mileage apparently varies. I'm just a couple of years younger than Sidne
>and generally prefer to be thought of as part of the cusp between the true
>boomers and gen-x, and I can't recall ever being asked if I'd met Stan Lee.
>Well, save for the time I did briefly meet him after the 1986 Harlan Ellison
>Roast where he was a participant (i.e. "Tom, have you met Stan here?") :-)
Most of the people who ask me this are a bit older than me. In my
profession, assistant professor in a business school, I work with a lot of
men who are a couple of years to 20 years older than me. I'd guess Tom
works with a lot of people his age and younger.
>The question I usually get asked is on the order of "Oh, I used to read
>character X; what's happened with them?".
I can't remember any former comics readers asking me about storylines for
characters they used to read. I have been asked whether a particular
character or team is still having books published about them.
Sidne Gail Ward
sw...@primenet.com
Join LSH and other comic fans in Las Vegas July 6-9!
For details see: http://www.primenet.com/~sward/saturngirl/lsh/lsg4.htm
Sidne G. Ward
>eternally <eternally*removethis*@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:38F62BCE...@hotmail.com...
>>
>> morgan thomas wrote:
>>
>> > Sidne G. Ward <sw...@primenet.com> wrote in message
>> > >
>> > > I personally hate this, BTW. I can't tell you how many times I've
>been
>> > > directed to the Sandman (or Archie) box just because I'm a woman.
>> >
>> > So, what, you prefer the adolescant power fantasies that make up most of
>the
>> > mainstream comics?
>>
>> is the only choice either-or...?
>Well, to be quite honest, there isn't a lot of other choice. If you don't
>like Sandman, chances are you're not going to like the simulairly styled
>Invisibles, From Hell, and whatnot. And that really only leaves a precious
>few slice-of-life books, Vertigo's harsher peices (Transmet, Preacher) some
>humour comics, a few other things I've forgotten about, and a whole lot of,
>with a few exceptions, rather tepid and uninspired stories about people in
>tights hitting each other. I'm just happy that people are being led to the
>Sandman box, regardless of gender.
Hate to disappoint you, but the only book you mentioned above in your list
of quality comics that I've read is From Hell (which I'm actually in the
middle of right now). I have read 1 issue of Sandman that Bala gave me at
Mid-Ohio a couple of years ago.
Other than that, I pretty much stick to "tepid and uninspired stories
about people in tights hitting each other."
For the record, I don't object to a comic shop employee who tries to
direct everyone who walks through the door to the Sandman box if the
employee thinks those are really great comics and is trying to actively
promote them. (I do think the employee is wasting some time and effort,
though.)
But I do object to being directed there based *solely* on
my gender, which has happened to me on numerous occasions.
I think the employee would be more successful if he/she tried to find out
about customers' individual likes and dislikes before making
recommendations. Particularly if those recommendations are unsolicited.
Sidne Gail Ward
sw...@primenet.com
Join fellow LSH and other comic fans in Las Vegas July 6-9!
Patrick Thompson
news:GCQK4.54$UA3...@typhoon.nyu.edu...
> Derek <schf...@home.com> wrote:
>
>
> : Edward Mathews wrote:
>
> :> Kirby is like Bob Dylan. What a grand creator and I'm glad other
people
> :> cover his tunes, but goddamn the man can't sing.
>
>
> Kirby covering Dylan would most likely be better work than Dylan covering
> Kirby. ;)
Heck, Dylan said as much in his recent "Time Out of Mind" album, where he
sang about being unable to draw a likeness (seriously!). I'd be curious
what a Dylan-scripted comic would look like, though. Perhaps that's how
comics could get a foothold online--be created by a mix of comics pros and
celebs from other disciplines, with the celebrities adding their own skills
to the words-and-pictures formula..."Words and Music by Bob Dylan, Penciled
by...Inked By..." might make for a good comic or not, but it would
definitely get attention from the popular press and get a lot of curious
people buying.
Derek
"Dan H." wrote:
> But I'm not looking forward to it because it doesn't sound like he's
> going to be writing Superman. Oh, sure, he'll have the same name,
> probably same powers, but everything else may be different. He said
> himself, Supes won't be from Krypton, and implied that he won't even be
> from another planet.
The articles I read seemed to say that his being from Krypton
was the only thing that WOULD be the same.
--
Schfooge
<schf...@home.com>
Zz
zZ
|\ z _,,,---,,_
/,`.-'`' _ ;-;;,_
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_)
Derek
Edward Mathews wrote:
> Kirby is like Bob Dylan. What a grand creator and I'm glad other people
> cover his tunes, but goddamn the man can't sing.
I thought Kirby was a great singer :)
--
Edward Mathews
: Edward Mathews wrote:
:> Kirby is like Bob Dylan. What a grand creator and I'm glad other people
:> cover his tunes, but goddamn the man can't sing.
: I thought Kirby was a great singer :)
Kirby covering Dylan would most likely be better work than Dylan covering
Kirby. ;)
Ed (the sun isn't yellow, it's chicken) Mathews
Aaron Mojo Hazouri or Bizarro No 1
>cover his tunes, but goddamn the man can't sing.
>
>art) Mathews
I agree with you one hundred percent. Dynamic as all get-out, action-packed
pages, wild characters that jumped off the page, and ugly art.
I bear Kirby NO ILL WILL, and he did some absolutely wild stuff. But when
it came to his skill as a draftsman, I have to go on over to Curt Swan and
Schaffenberger and Sprang...
Aaron Mojo Hazouri or Bizarro No 1
>about people in tights hitting each other."
AMEN! Hit 'em! HIT 'EM!!!
My theory is that every single story you tell has already been told, and
presumably better. All you can hope to do is make your version somehow the
most interesting.
Michael Alan Chary
Sidne G. Ward <sw...@primenet.com> wrote:
>Elayne Riggs <fire...@panix.com> writes:
>
>>Michael Payton <mpa...@netwalk.com> happened to mention:
>
>>> If Stan can generate this much publicity with this sort of thing, imagine
>>> what he could do if he ever buys Marvel. "non-fan" folks might actually
>>> start to find & enjoy comics again. :-)
>
>>There's no question that Stan's still The Man with most non-comics readers
>>out there.
>
>I'd amend this to read "..with most former comics readers..". In my
>experience, people who *never* read comics have no idea who Stan Lee is.
I would guess the most famous comics person to non-comics readers now that
Sparky's dead is Garry Trudeau or Scott Adams.
--
In memoriam Walter Payton, 1954-1999, the greatest Bear of all time.
"Being the fastest? I wasn't. Being the strongest? I wasn't. Being the biggest?
I wasn't. I had something that nobody else had. I think I was the smartest."
-- Sweetness
Edward Mathews
: I would guess the most famous comics person to non-comics readers now that
: Sparky's dead is Garry Trudeau or Scott Adams.
Gary Larson. Those calendars don't sell themselves.
Ed (Matt Groening is also a contender) Mathews
Brian H. Bailie
> I would guess the most famous comics person to non-comics readers now that
> Sparky's dead is Garry Trudeau or Scott Adams.
A lot of people may know Dilbert by now, but I suspect few would have the name
Scott Adams slipping easily off the end of their tongue.
I'd agree with Trudeau, but I suggest the most prominent person to non-comics fans
would now probably be Mort Walker, simply because this is the 50th anniversary of
Beetle Bailey, and that may generate some hype.
And merchandise. :)
I'd also put Jim Davis as more recognizable than Scott Adams as well. But let's
face it, if you go do a poll with non-comics readers and ask them to name a comics
creator, it's about the same as going up to non-sports fans and asking what teams
were in last year's World Series.
Brian
--
As a dreamer of dreams, and a travelin' man
I have chalked up many a mile.
I've read dozens of books about heroes and crooks
And I've learned much from both of their styles.
- J. Buffett
Michael Alan Chary
Brian H. Bailie <b.h.b...@larc.nasa.gov> wrote:
>Michael Alan Chary wrote:
>
>> I would guess the most famous comics person to non-comics readers now that
>> Sparky's dead is Garry Trudeau or Scott Adams.
>
>A lot of people may know Dilbert by now, but I suspect few would have the name
>Scott Adams slipping easily off the end of their tongue.
>
Actually, having thouight about it, I think Crumb probably has a lot of
name recognition too with the movies and Playboy and all.
morgan thomas
Mikel Midnight <blak...@best.outdamnspam.com> wrote in message
news:170420000625120361%blak...@best.outdamnspam.com...
> In article <ZlyK4.773$9B.9...@news.bc.tac.net>, morgan thomas
> <morgan...@bc.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
don't
> > like Sandman, chances are you're not going to like the simulairly styled
> > Invisibles, From Hell, and whatnot. And that really only leaves a
precious
> > few slice-of-life books, Vertigo's harsher peices (Transmet, Preacher)
some
> > humour comics, a few other things I've forgotten about, and a whole lot
of,
in
> > tights hitting each other. I'm just happy that people are being led to
the
> > Sandman box, regardless of gender.
>
> scene. That's also a peculiar way of classing books together: it would
> never occur to me that Invisibles and From Hell would appeal to a
> Sandman fan at all (some of them individually, sure, but not as a
> group). If anything, I would steer a Sandman fan towards Eddie
> Campbell's BACCHUS.
I havn't read Bacchus yet, though i would love to. And admitably, I've only
read the first Invisibles and it could be only 'cause of the Jill Thompson
art, lovely use of mythology and history (including the Marquis de Sade, a
character who was going to be used in a simulair situation in Sandman) and a
sadistic supernatural serial killer, but I found it quite simulair in tone
and content to Sandman. Ditto for From Hell which, though darker, covered a
lot of the same area about legand and history. And yeah, that was an
overexageration of the comics scene, but it is a pretty dreary place, all
told (though much better than it used to be).
Sidne G. Ward
>Michael Alan Chary wrote:
>> I would guess the most famous comics person to non-comics readers now that
>> Sparky's dead is Garry Trudeau or Scott Adams.
>A lot of people may know Dilbert by now, but I suspect few would have the name
>Scott Adams slipping easily off the end of their tongue.
I think a lot of people living in cubicle worlds would. But I'm not sure
if people reading Dilbert posted on others' office walls could be
considered non-comics readers.
>I'd agree with Trudeau, but I suggest the most prominent person to non-comics fans
>would now probably be Mort Walker, simply because this is the 50th anniversary of
>Beetle Bailey, and that may generate some hype.
>And merchandise. :)
I'd still think Trudeau would be a little better known. He seems to be a
more of a personality.
>I'd also put Jim Davis as more recognizable than Scott Adams as well. But let's
>face it, if you go do a poll with non-comics readers and ask them to name a comics
>creator, it's about the same as going up to non-sports fans and asking what teams
>were in last year's World Series.
Hmm, let's see...I can eliminate the Royals...
Sidne Gail Ward
sw...@primenet.com
Join LSH and other comic fans in Las Vegas July 6-9!
morgan thomas
Sidne G. Ward <sw...@primenet.com> wrote in message
news:8dfqcq$4q$1...@nnrp02.primenet.com...
> "morgan thomas" <morgan...@bc.sympatico.ca> writes:
>
> >eternally <eternally*removethis*@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:38F62BCE...@hotmail.com...
> >>
> >> morgan thomas wrote:
> >>
> >> > Sidne G. Ward <sw...@primenet.com> wrote in message
> >> > >
> >> > > I personally hate this, BTW. I can't tell you how many times I've
> >been
> >> > > directed to the Sandman (or Archie) box just because I'm a woman.
> >> >
> >> > So, what, you prefer the adolescant power fantasies that make up most
of
> >the
> >> > mainstream comics?
> >>
> >> is the only choice either-or...?
>
> >like Sandman, chances are you're not going to like the simulairly styled
> >Invisibles, From Hell, and whatnot. And that really only leaves a
precious
> >few slice-of-life books, Vertigo's harsher peices (Transmet, Preacher)
some
> >humour comics, a few other things I've forgotten about, and a whole lot
of,
> >with a few exceptions, rather tepid and uninspired stories about people
in
> >tights hitting each other. I'm just happy that people are being led to
the
> >Sandman box, regardless of gender.
>
> of quality comics that I've read is From Hell (which I'm actually in the
> middle of right now). I have read 1 issue of Sandman that Bala gave me at
> Mid-Ohio a couple of years ago.
I don't quite see why that point would dissapoint me, but whatever. (hope
your enjoying From Hell, by the by)
>
> Other than that, I pretty much stick to "tepid and uninspired stories
> about people in tights hitting each other."
To each their own, I guess. I've gotten rather bored with superhero stories,
myself (as I'm sure you can tell) and I'm just a tad bitter to see the
market consider to be flooded with the stuff, with no real sign of it ever
letting up.
>
> For the record, I don't object to a comic shop employee who tries to
> direct everyone who walks through the door to the Sandman box if the
> employee thinks those are really great comics and is trying to actively
> promote them. (I do think the employee is wasting some time and effort,
> though.)
>
> But I do object to being directed there based *solely* on
> my gender, which has happened to me on numerous occasions.
>
> I think the employee would be more successful if he/she tried to find out
> about customers' individual likes and dislikes before making
> recommendations. Particularly if those recommendations are unsolicited.
Point taken. I just tend to be rather dumb struck that anyone could ever not
want to be taken to the Sandman box.
Sidne G. Ward
>> I think the employee would be more successful if he/she tried to find out
>> about customers' individual likes and dislikes before making
>> recommendations. Particularly if those recommendations are unsolicited.
>Point taken. I just tend to be rather dumb struck that anyone could ever not
>want to be taken to the Sandman box.
I've been buying comics off and on for many years and I'm well aware of
Sandman. At the point I was routinely being directed to that title by
comic retailers I had already decided it wasn't likely to interest me.
OTOH, if I had been interested, I would have already had all the issues
and still not needed directing.
Sidne Gail Ward
sw...@primenet.com
LSH and other comic fans in Las Vegas July 6-9!