Religion in Comics
Paul O'Brien
>Can somebody explain something that has been bugging me for a long
>time? What is the deal with religion in comics over the past 60 years
>or so?
Religions are basically mythic stories and therefore fit rather
well into a superhero mythos - as long as you're not using one that
the audience take deadly seriously, in which case they'll be mortally
offended at the trivialisation of their religious beliefs.
Paul O'Brien
THE X-AXIS REVIEWS - http://www.esoterica.demon.co.uk
From the relatively fashionable west end of Glasgow.
Vicarious
A Mutant Jesusman created as the rebirth of the son of god. Powers include
healing factor and abilty to change objects from one to another like water
to wine. Can walk on water, and can not be killed.
Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:k4f1hnA2...@esoterica.demon.co.uk...
TK-421
do they?
oh well...
Peter Likidis
TK-421 wrote:
>
> No one takes the Jesus stuff deadly seriously these days do they?
>
> do they?
>
> oh well...
>
uhmmm Dogma?
MadiHolmes
>
>
>do they?
>
>
>oh well...
I found out last night, OH how I found out...
MadiHolmes
Elayne Riggs
> Now it seems that in comics all
> religions are real...
> How do writers get away with these stories without causing
> confussion.
They trust that their readers will understand it's fiction?
- Elayne
Tom Henderson
incredible historical evidence for the existence of Jesus, and the
validity of the Bible. So, to answer your question, there are people
that take the Jesus stuff seriously, and with good reason.
In article <rvrj0t03jg5c3cpc6...@4ax.com>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Mikey 5-0
wrote:
>No one takes the Jesus stuff deadly seriously these days do they?
>
>
>do they?
Sadly, I already have one friend telling me I should go to Church and
witness 'the revelation of God' and that I wont believe the things
I'll see. He has since been warned not to speak of such things again,
lest he feel the weight of my shovel about his bonce.
I'd rather there was no God. Id rather humanity made it here because
damn it - we sweated, we bled, and we earnt it! And I want to believe
tht mankind has a great destiny, that the stars are our birthright -
and not that it may all end tomorrow because God decides that time is
up, and the games over, and okay - lets see the colour of your soul,
matey.
For me, life with God is a sad, depressing thing.
I feel I should mention that I have quite a few Christian friends, and
Im not exactly anti-Christian - I just dont need it in my life.
Another of my friends is quite devout, and we can discuss religion
till the cows come home. He respects that each person lives their own
life, and he's not once told me that he has felt the presence of God,
unlike my friend who is gonna get his head beat in if he keeps
pestering me.
I just really dont like sanctimonious prats telling me I have to go to
church as if Im missing something in my life because I dont follow
their God. So for all those faithful Christians out there, doing the
good work - on ya! And for all those bible bashers - youre gonna rot
in hell!
Mikey 5-0
=====
'In heaven you become what you hope. In hell you
become what you fear...' - Von Bek, Michael Moorcock
=====
Remove 'nospam' and replace with 'kestril' to email me
Mikey 5-0
<no...@nospam.plethera.com> wrote:
>JESUS MAN!!!
>
>A Mutant Jesusman created as the rebirth of the son of god. Powers include
>healing factor and abilty to change objects from one to another like water
>to wine. Can walk on water, and can not be killed.
Give it to Alan Moore, or Warren Ellis - set it in Scotland (the
resting place of the Holy Grail?) - and do a 12, maybe 24-issue
maxi-series about the second coming of Jesus in cold, dank raining
Glasgow.
Perhaps this time Jesus will choose humanity over divinity? Very
bleak, very depressing, very 'nobody cares, faith is dead' kind of
series.
Id buy it.
gzyw...@my-deja.com
nos...@echidna.id.au (Mikey 5-0) wrote:
> Perhaps this time Jesus will choose humanity over divinity? Very
> bleak, very depressing, very 'nobody cares, faith is dead' kind of
> series.
>
> Id buy it.
>
> Mikey 5-0
I'm confused, what do you mean "this time?" He chose hummanity last
time. Died and all. Fully human, fully divine.
What? But you put up with people flying and turning in to animals.
Greg Zywicki
gzyw...@my-deja.com
>
> do they?
>
Only those of us who know him.
jonn...@my-deja.com
> <no...@nospam.plethera.com> wrote:
>
> >JESUS MAN!!!
> >
> >A Mutant Jesusman created as the rebirth of the son of god. Powers
include
> >healing factor and abilty to change objects from one to another like
water
> >to wine. Can walk on water, and can not be killed.
>
> Give it to Alan Moore, or Warren Ellis - set it in Scotland (the
> resting place of the Holy Grail?) - and do a 12, maybe 24-issue
> maxi-series about the second coming of Jesus in cold, dank raining
> Glasgow.
>
> bleak, very depressing, very 'nobody cares, faith is dead' kind of
> series.
>
> Id buy it.
That story sounds more like Garth Ennis's style if you ask me. I know
for sure I wouldn't read it.
> Mikey 5-0
> =====
> 'In heaven you become what you hope. In hell you
> become what you fear...' - Von Bek, Michael Moorcock
> =====
> Remove 'nospam' and replace with 'kestril' to email me
>
jonn...@my-deja.com
Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <8uc8gb$388$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, jonn...@my-deja.com writes
> >Can somebody explain something that has been bugging me for a long
> >time? What is the deal with religion in comics over the past 60 years
> >or so?
>
> Religions are basically mythic stories and therefore fit rather
> well into a superhero mythos - as long as you're not using one that
> the audience take deadly seriously, in which case they'll be mortally
> offended at the trivialisation of their religious beliefs.
The majority of religious people in this country are either Chirstians
or Jews(I think jews are the second most), yet I've never seen or heard
of anybody complaining about Zauriel(or for that matter Preacher). Not
even the Christian Coalition or the Southern Baptisits have said
anything about it to my knowledg(and that I find very surprising). Now
that I think about it, I don't recall any buddist or hindu stories in
comics.
> Paul O'Brien
> THE X-AXIS REVIEWS - http://www.esoterica.demon.co.uk
>
> From the relatively fashionable west end of Glasgow.
>
jonn...@my-deja.com
>
> do they?
>
> oh well...
Go to a church some Sunday. You'll find out then.
Decanos
>
>I just really dont like sanctimonious prats telling me I have to go to
>church as if Im missing something in my life because I dont follow
>their God. So for all those faithful Christians out there, doing the
>good work - on ya! And for all those bible bashers - youre gonna rot
>in hell!
Come on. Regardless of whether they're right or wrong,
they're at least acting out of concern and a desire to
help. One might disagree with their assessment, but
it seems mighty harsh to return their concern (however
ardent) with threats.
I take the same attitude toward Momon and Jehovah's
Witness door-knockers. Even though I disagree with
them -- for many reasons -- I do commend them for
their presistence and desire to help.
TK-421
person, I just don't believe that there is any evidence that it
happened the way it was depicted in the Bible (which was rewritten in
the Middle Ages).
And it was just a joke anyway.
On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 13:57:35 GMT, Tom Henderson
<tomhen...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>Not to get into a sermon, or start a huge off-topic thread, but there is
>incredible historical evidence for the existence of Jesus, and the
>validity of the Bible. So, to answer your question, there are people
>that take the Jesus stuff seriously, and with good reason.
>
>In article <rvrj0t03jg5c3cpc6...@4ax.com>,
> paul...@bigfoot.com wrote:
TK-421
>In article <rvrj0t03jg5c3cpc6...@4ax.com>,
> paul...@bigfoot.com wrote:
>> No one takes the Jesus stuff deadly seriously these days do they?
>>
>> do they?
>>
>
>Only those of us who know him.
>
>Greg Zywicki
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
You don't know him, he's been dead for nearly 2000 years
TK-421
>
>Go to a church some Sunday. You'll find out then.
I've got better things to do on a Sunday thank you very much
MadiHolmes
>>
>>Go to a church some Sunday. You'll find out then.
>
>
>I've got better things to do on a Sunday thank you very much
Oh this is just peachy.
First politics, now religion.
<I'm sorry, it's just that these two subjects usually lead to the
most....discussions>
:)
MadiHolmes
"Sometimes you just can't get rid of a flame war"
Rami Rautkorpi
<jonn...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8uej7o$de$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> In article <3a0aa5ff...@news.iinet.net.au>,
> nos...@echidna.id.au (Mikey 5-0) wrote:
> > Give it to Alan Moore, or Warren Ellis - set it in Scotland (the
> > resting place of the Holy Grail?) - and do a 12, maybe 24-issue
> > maxi-series about the second coming of Jesus in cold, dank raining
> > Glasgow.
> >
> > Perhaps this time Jesus will choose humanity over divinity? Very
> > bleak, very depressing, very 'nobody cares, faith is dead' kind of
> > series.
>
> for sure I wouldn't read it.
I've always found Ennis's stories very optimistic and fun to read, not bleak
or depressing at all. Ellis on the other hand - I'm afraid he might actually
do it! I hope he never finds out about this idea :-)
--
Rami Rautkorpi
http://koti.mbnet.fi/ramir
--
"If you're so smart
why can't you see your own head
without a reflective surface?" -Grant Morrison
Paul O'Brien
>
>The majority of religious people in this country are either Chirstians
>or Jews(I think jews are the second most), yet I've never seen or heard
>of anybody complaining about Zauriel(or for that matter Preacher).
Preacher got a few complaints. The lack of reaction to Zauriel from
the religious groups did surprise me somewhat - not because of
Zauriel himself, who was a perfectly innocuous character, but because
his back story involved corruption in Heaven which God didn't seem
to be aware of, suggesting that God wasn't doing a terribly good job
up there.
Paul O'Brien
>
>Go to a church some Sunday. You'll find out then.
I'd love to, but I spend my Sundays raping goats and sacrificing
children. It's a hard life, but pleasurable.
speculato...@my-deja.com
> > nos...@echidna.id.au (Mikey 5-0) wrote:
> > > Give it to Alan Moore, or Warren Ellis - set it in Scotland (the
> > > resting place of the Holy Grail?) - and do a 12, maybe 24-issue
> > > maxi-series about the second coming of Jesus in cold, dank raining
> > > Glasgow.
> > >
> > > Perhaps this time Jesus will choose humanity over divinity? Very
> > > bleak, very depressing, very 'nobody cares, faith is dead' kind of
> > > series.
> <jonn...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> > That story sounds more like Garth Ennis's style if you ask me. I
know
> > for sure I wouldn't read it.
"Rami Rautkorpi" <rami.ra...@mbnet.fi> wrote:
> I've always found Ennis's stories very optimistic and fun to read, not
bleak
> or depressing at all. Ellis on the other hand - I'm afraid he might
actually
> do it! I hope he never finds out about this idea :-)
There's an interview with Ennis published online at
http://www.orb-store.com/rassmag/001020.htm
Religion is mentioned ...
MTFBWY,
Speculator
Dodds
i read in the paper a few weeks back about some strange laws. One of
them was that, in some Islamic countries (can't remember which ones),
there is a law that if a man has sexual intercourse with a lamb, it is
illegal if he eats it's flesh. Now, is it just me, or is there
something wrong with that law...?
It's a good job that rape demon from Hellblazer;Newcastle wasn't in an
islamic country!
Ronan
Paul O'Brien wrote:
>
> In article <8uejvi$10j$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, jonn...@my-deja.com writes
> >
> >Go to a church some Sunday. You'll find out then.
>
> I'd love to, but I spend my Sundays raping goats and sacrificing
> children. It's a hard life, but pleasurable.
>
Matt Sheridan
> >
> > Give it to Alan Moore, or Warren Ellis - set it in Scotland (the
> > resting place of the Holy Grail?) - and do a 12, maybe 24-issue
> > maxi-series about the second coming of Jesus in cold, dank raining
> > Glasgow.
>
> for sure I wouldn't read it.
And I know for sure I would.
Matt
Carl Fink
>Not to get into a sermon, or start a huge off-topic thread, but there is
>incredible historical evidence for the existence of Jesus, and the
>validity of the Bible. So, to answer your question, there are people
>that take the Jesus stuff seriously, and with good reason.
This is literally true. ("Incredible" means "not believable" if you
follow the etymology.) Define "validity".
--
Carl Fink ca...@dm.net
Manager, Dueling Modems Computer Forum
<http://dm.net>
BHMarks
>The majority of religious people in this country are either Chirstians
>or Jews(I think jews are the second most), yet I've never seen or heard
>of anybody complaining about Zauriel(or for that matter Preacher). Not
>even the Christian Coalition or the Southern Baptisits have said
>anything about it to my knowledg(and that I find very surprising).
I have heard people on this very newsgroup, and related ones, complaining about
both Zauriel and Preacher.
The Christian Coalition and the Southern Baptists don't pay much attention to
comics - Disney's more their size - but there was some "concerned Christian
mother's group" (I cannot recall its precise name, and would be happy if
someone could remind me) that decided to boycott Gaiman's SANDMAN. Mr. Gaiman
had a well-written response, describing the happy day when the memebers of this
organization would come flocking back to the book.
As is not entirely unusual, what prompted the reaction of this group (as of the
Southern Baptists to Disney) was the presence and acceptance of gay people.
They don't react very much when a straight person in a fictional story breaks
one of their sexual rules and gets away with it (because then they'd have to
deal with Lot and his nieces and all that other stuff in the Bible), but give
'em a homosexual or two and they're rarin' to go.
Statisitcally speaking, that is.
As ever,
Bennet
Tom Henderson
Christianity that Jesus came back from the dead (Josephus, to name
one). Please, before making claims about Jesus, at least do some
reading about him.
In article <onml0toe4q2r1k67d...@4ax.com>,
paul...@bigfoot.com wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 16:01:51 GMT, gzyw...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >In article <rvrj0t03jg5c3cpc6...@4ax.com>,
> > paul...@bigfoot.com wrote:
> >> No one takes the Jesus stuff deadly seriously these days do they?
> >>
> >> do they?
> >>
> >
> >Only those of us who know him.
> >
> >Greg Zywicki
> >
> >
> >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> >Before you buy.
>
> You don't know him, he's been dead for nearly 2000 years
>
Carl Fink
>They don't react very much when a straight person in a fictional story breaks
>one of their sexual rules and gets away with it (because then they'd have to
>deal with Lot and his nieces and all that other stuff in the Bible). . .
Daughters.
--
Carl Fink ca...@dm.net
I-Con's Science and Technology Programming
<http://www.iconsf.org/>
gzyw...@my-deja.com
paul...@bigfoot.com wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 16:01:51 GMT, gzyw...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >In article <rvrj0t03jg5c3cpc6...@4ax.com>,
> > paul...@bigfoot.com wrote:
> >> No one takes the Jesus stuff deadly seriously these days do they?
> >>
> >> do they?
> >>
> >
> >Only those of us who know him.
> >
> >Greg Zywicki
> >
>
gzyw...@my-deja.com
jonn...@my-deja.com wrote:
> The majority of religious people in this country are either Chirstians
> or Jews(I think jews are the second most),
Could be Islam at this point, I'm not sure.
> yet I've never seen or heard
> of anybody complaining about Zauriel(or for that matter Preacher).
I did raise a complaint about Zauriel on DCU-L (I think) a few years
back, but it was mostly, "Good story. Doesn't resemble heaven in any
way, but a pretty good story nonetheless. Preacher - why bother? The
religion in that book had only a fleeting resemblence to any of the big
three monotheisms.
> Now
> that I think about it, I don't recall any buddist or hindu stories in
> comics.
>
> > Paul O'Brien
>
You missed DeMatais in the 80's then. There was a time when every one
of his stories veered into obscure hinduism. Dr. Fate was the best
example. Real shame too, because it overwhelmed what had started out as
a very engaging book.
TK-421
>In article <onml0toe4q2r1k67d...@4ax.com>,
> paul...@bigfoot.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 16:01:51 GMT, gzyw...@my-deja.com wrote:
>>
>> >In article <rvrj0t03jg5c3cpc6...@4ax.com>,
>> > paul...@bigfoot.com wrote:
>> >> No one takes the Jesus stuff deadly seriously these days do they?
>> >>
>> >> do they?
>> >>
>> >
>> >Only those of us who know him.
>> >
>> >Greg Zywicki
>> >
>> You don't know him, he's been dead for nearly 2000 years
>>
>Apparently you are unfamiliar with the tennents of my faith.
>
>Greg Zywicki
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
>Before you buy.
Having fath is something does not equate to knowing it, even if you
would like it to be so
jonn...@my-deja.com
Paul O'Brien <pa...@esoterica.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <8uejvi$10j$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, jonn...@my-deja.com writes
> >
> >Go to a church some Sunday. You'll find out then.
>
> I'd love to, but I spend my Sundays raping goats and sacrificing
> children. It's a hard life, but pleasurable.
Oh for crying out loud! Why can't people be mature during threads like
this?
> Paul O'Brien
> THE X-AXIS REVIEWS - http://www.esoterica.demon.co.uk
>
> From the relatively fashionable west end of Glasgow.
>
jonn...@my-deja.com
It's not just gays. Didn't John Byrne gon on this NG and complain about
Mark Waid having Supes and WW parent an iligitimate child in Kingdom
Come, and then complain against Dan Raspler for approving it? I don't
know if it was this NG, but I know it was somewhere on the net.
> Statisitcally speaking, that is.
>
> As ever,
> Bennet
>
gzyw...@my-deja.com
paul...@bigfoot.com wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Nov 2000 15:30:15 GMT, gzyw...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> >In article <onml0toe4q2r1k67d...@4ax.com>,
> > paul...@bigfoot.com wrote:
> >> On Thu, 09 Nov 2000 16:01:51 GMT, gzyw...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <rvrj0t03jg5c3cpc6...@4ax.com>,
> >> > paul...@bigfoot.com wrote:
> >> >> No one takes the Jesus stuff deadly seriously these days do
they?
> >> >>
> >> >> do they?
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Only those of us who know him.
> >> >
> >> >Greg Zywicki
> >> >
> >> You don't know him, he's been dead for nearly 2000 years
> >>
> >Apparently you are unfamiliar with the tennents of my faith.
> >
> >Greg Zywicki
> >
> >
> would like it to be so
>
religion then.
Sheesh.
Greg Zywicki
TK-421
>>
>> Having fath is something does not equate to knowing it, even if you
>> would like it to be so
>>
>Okay semantic cop, apparently you're unfamiliar with the tennents of my
>religion then.
>
>Sheesh.
>
>Greg Zywicki
>
>
This doesn't make it any different. Your supposedly knowing Jesus is
simply an act of faith based on your religion. You do not actaully
know him in any sort of literal sense. The fact remains that it has
been nearly 2000 years since the historical figure that is now known
as Jesus Christ walked the Earth and anyone was able to actually know
him
Kevin J. Maroney
>You missed DeMatais in the 80's then. There was a time when every one
>of his stories veered into obscure hinduism.
"deMatteis". And what deMatteis believes, and what his stories often
concern, isn't Hindu per se; it's the religion of Meher Baba, which is
an eccumenical blend of religions with large doses of both Hindu and
Christianity.
--
Kevin J. Maroney | Unplugged Games | kmar...@ungames.com
"Thank you for your cooperation, Mr. Maroney. You are free
to leave."--Hyperion, _Squadron Supreme_ (by Mark Gruenwald)
Jim Kinsey
news:m2oo0t8j78slrgel1...@4ax.com...
Think of it as a sort of metaphor then - like when you "find" Jesus - you
don't literally go up into your Grandad's loft one day, look behind a chest
and see Jesus lying there - "Hey! I found Jesus!" (although I can't help but
think of South Park the movie when I hear this phrase now). Once you've
"found" him, you don't hang out with him and exchange phone calls - but you
can lay a much better claim to knowing him than those who haven't.
In other words: Don't try and argue with religion over semantics, you'll get
nowhere. As has been pointed out elsewhere the Bible has been translated and
rewritten so many times, to argue over the arrangement of the words would be
futile. Start with things like Dinosaur bones, the age of the universe,
evolution. But be careful to do your research - these guys can be sharp.
Jim
--
"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend, inside a dog it's too dark
too read"
--Groucho Marx
Jim Kinsey
> Talking of raping animals...
> i read in the paper a few weeks back about some strange laws. One of
> them was that, in some Islamic countries (can't remember which ones),
> there is a law that if a man has sexual intercourse with a lamb, it is
> illegal if he eats it's flesh. Now, is it just me, or is there
> something wrong with that law
Maybe it's a mis-translation and is referring to oral sex...?
Have you ever been to www.dumblaws.com? They have loads of things like this
listed. Was recently much-quoted in Sam & Twitch.
Paul O'Brien
>>
>> I'd love to, but I spend my Sundays raping goats and sacrificing
>> children. It's a hard life, but pleasurable.
>
>Oh for crying out loud! Why can't people be mature during threads like
>this?
Ah, well I don't have to worry about my immortal soul. It's not
really an issue for us lawyers.
BHMarks
John Byrne isn't a national Right-Wing group.
I wonder if his version of Ares was *married* when he became the father of his
version of Hippolyta?
:-)
Bennet
Harris O'Malley
wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Having fath is something does not equate to knowing it, even if you
>>> would like it to be so
>>>
>>Okay semantic cop, apparently you're unfamiliar with the tennents of my
>>religion then.
>>
>>Sheesh.
>>
>>Greg Zywicki
>>
>>
>
>
>This doesn't make it any different. Your supposedly knowing Jesus is
>simply an act of faith based on your religion. You do not actaully
>know him in any sort of literal sense.
But that can be changed. Jesus is back, and he's looking for nookie.
--
Harris O'Malley
Come visit Studio Underhill
http://www.studiounderhill.com
JVV4sm
>>>
>>> I'd love to, but I spend my Sundays raping goats and sacrificing
>>> children. It's a hard life, but pleasurable.
>>
>>Oh for crying out loud! Why can't people be mature during threads like
>>this?
>
>Ah, well I don't have to worry about my immortal soul. It's not
>really an issue for us lawyers.
How much did you get for it?
TK-421
wrote:
> Start with things like Dinosaur bones, the age of the universe,
>evolution. But be careful to do your research - these guys can be sharp.
The thing is I'm not out to disprove anything. But Religious people
often quote the things they believe as facts when they are plainly not
facts and cannot be proved. Just for the record, I am not claiming
that they can be disproved either.
TK-421
So would I
MadiHolmes
>
>How much did you get for it?
the Usual Trade- box of cigars.
Well, they ARE Cuban :)
madiHolmes
Robert M. Bienvenu
>In article <8uc8gb$388$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, jonn...@my-deja.com writes
>>Can somebody explain something that has been bugging me for a long
>>time? What is the deal with religion in comics over the past 60 years
>>or so?
>
>Religions are basically mythic stories and therefore fit rather
>well into a superhero mythos - as long as you're not using one that
>the audience take deadly seriously, in which case they'll be mortally
>offended at the trivialisation of their religious beliefs.
>
Religion in comics is the same as religion in any other media. It's
accepted that use of religious figures or history in a story does not
neccessarily equal validation of that religion.
I doubt that many walked out of Raiders of the Lost Ark, when the
reality of the religious artifact was revealed. I'm sure that
non-Christians can enjoy "The Night Before Christmas", without
offense.
It get's offensive (in comics or anywhere else), when you attempt to
change or explain religious history with non-religious explanation.
(Explaining that the star that guided the wise men was a space ship,
or that your religious founders were actually aliens).
I don't know how many folks still believe in the Norse, Roman or Greek
gods, but I'm guessing that they wouldn't be too thrilled with their
use by comic creators. I guess I'd feel the same way if Captain
Marvel gained his powers by shouting an acronym made up of the names
of the Apostles.
BHMarks
>I guess I'd feel the same way if Captain
>Marvel gained his powers by shouting an acronym made up of the names
>of the Apostles.
But how come Solomon doesn't count? Because he's Judeochristian and not just
Christian?
As ever,
Bennet
robertso
I hate to be the one that says it but Jesus is still alright with me...DC
TALK RULES!!!!!!
Peter "Named after the Doorman to the stars" Robertson
P.S. I'm kidding about the DC TALK STUFF.
Paul "Duggy" Duggan
> I don't know how many folks still believe in the Norse, Roman or Greek
> gods, but I'm guessing that they wouldn't be too thrilled with their
> Marvel gained his powers by shouting an acronym made up of the names
> of the Apostles.
What, like Seriphm?
---
- Dug.
---
Post cost: 55c a word.
(Higher from public phones and mobiles.)
---
Paul "Duggy" Duggan
> Religion in comics is the same as religion in any other media. It's
> accepted that use of religious figures or history in a story does not
> neccessarily equal validation of that religion.
Yes and no.
> I doubt that many walked out of Raiders of the Lost Ark, when the
> reality of the religious artifact was revealed.
I can remember not being too happy about that, but accepting it in the
context... but then, non-judeo-christian magic worked in Temple of Doom,
so who knows...
> I'm sure that
> non-Christians can enjoy "The Night Before Christmas", without
> offense.
Once again, it's part of suspension of disbelief. Like not being offended
by the use of Zeus and the Muses in Xanadu. I don't believe in Zues, but
I accepted that for the film he did.
> It get's offensive (in comics or anywhere else), when you attempt to
> change or explain religious history with non-religious explanation.
Which is the problem... One religion (a western judeo-christian one
explains the others - they get their power/were created by God)
> (Explaining that the star that guided the wise men was a space ship,
And what is the problem with that? If God guided that ship, and used it
as the symbol... why not? Isn't just as valid as if he created a tempory
star, caused a Supernova, or just made a light in the sky?
> or that your religious founders were actually aliens).
I can see how that my be a problem if that invented the religion... the
thing I'd find more offensive is that aliens don't follow the same
beliefs... surely if there's one god, he created everyone, not just our
solar system...
gzyw...@my-deja.com
"Jim Kinsey" <jimk...@beeb.net> wrote:
> In other words: Don't try and argue with religion over semantics,
you'll get
> nowhere. As has been pointed out elsewhere the Bible has been
translated and
> rewritten so many times, to argue over the arrangement of the words
would be
> futile.
As has been pointed out elsewhere, texts exist in the original greek, a
language we have a pretty good handle on in this day and age.
Mistranslation is an uniformed argument. Misdocumentation is a better
one, as the existing documents date from about 60 AD.
>Start with things like Dinosaur bones, the age of the
universe,
> evolution. But be careful to do your research - these guys can be
sharp.
>
> Jim
Yes we can be, especially those of us who aren't literalists, and those
of us now passed on who believe, but also established some of the
methods for dating the age of the planet. I don't dispute age of the
universe, etc, because I don't literally interpret the text to say that
the earth is only six or seven thousand years old. Outside of the
dates, there is nothing in Genesis that is in contradiction with
science.
gzyw...@my-deja.com
paul...@bigfoot.com wrote:
>
> The thing is I'm not out to disprove anything. But Religious people
> often quote the things they believe as facts when they are plainly not
> facts and cannot be proved.
>
You're confusing truths with facts. Unprovable things can be true
(eg, I love my wife.) Believers are usually speaking of what they
consider revealed truths. They can't be proven, only accepted or
rejected. So when I say I "know" Jesus, I can't prove it, but it is a
truth that was revealled to me. You don't have to accept this, but
neither can you point out to me that I'm wrong with any hope of success.
Greg Zywicki
I love comics
gzyw...@my-deja.com
Ah, so that's why I could never put a finger on it. Meher Baba. I
looked it up on Britannica.com. That explains my confusion - Indian,
and apparently hindu influenced, but also strong touches of other
faiths.
On the other hand - deMatteis? I've never seen a surname start with a
lowercase letter to my knowledge. This is new to me.
Greg Zywicki
Carl Fink
>
>On the other hand - deMatteis? I've never seen a surname start with a
>lowercase letter to my knowledge. This is new to me.
You've never read any European history or fiction? It's really
common in French and Spanish among other languages. The "de" or "du"
is equivalent to English "of" and usually denotes either a noble
family, or a family which at one time *pretended* to be of noble
derivation.
--
Carl Fink ca...@dm.net
I-Con's Science and Technology Programming
<http://www.iconsf.org/>
Loren Di Iorio
: Greg wrote:
:
: > On the other hand - deMatteis? I've never seen a surname start with
: > a lowercase letter to my knowledge. This is new to me.
:
: You've never read any European history or fiction? It's really
: common in French and Spanish among other languages. The "de" or "du"
: is equivalent to English "of" and usually denotes either a noble
: family, or a family which at one time *pretended* to be of noble
: derivation.
And to take it strangely back on-topic, and to the DCU in particular,
in the GN Batman: The Chalice, mention is made of Bruce Wayne's ancestor,
whose surname was geVain, IIRC, and the elderly gentleman telling him
this information went by deWetterling (again, IIRC - I'm more certain
of the former).
The Chalice dealt with religion to a point, as it involved the Holy
Grail, forcing Bruce to question his beliefs. Great painted art from
John Van Fleet, written by Chuck Dixon.
My review of said book can be found at the link below, at the
Galactic Bookshelf in the review area.
...Loren
Loren! Reviews! Comics! http://www.comicbookgalaxy.com
Read Loren's country music reviews: http://www.countrymusicforthefans.com
Kevrob
"Vicarious" <no...@nospam.plethera.com> wrote:
> JESUS MAN!!!
The National Lampoon beat you to it in the 1970's
With art by Neal Adams!
***********************************************
He takes the Name (but not in vain)...
Benny: Jeezussss!
And he's touched by the power of the Lord!
sf/x: A-Wop-Bop-A-Lula-A-Wop-Bang-Boom!
[young Jewish Benny is transformed into
the Messianic Marvel... Son-of-God.]
You have to check out his classic battle with Zimmerman,
(in reality, Bob Dylan.)
--
Kevin Robinson
"Where liberty dwells, there is my country." B. Franklin