I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.
I think there are more minority superheros than religious ones.
Not that I want to see "The Teen Titans" become "The Christian Crusaders, with their Happy Hindu friend and wacky Orthodox Jew sidekick", but seems unrealistic that there would be none.
I'm not religious myself, but I know that for a large chunk of the population, faith is an important part of their lives.
Huntress has a Christian Prostitute wardrobe, but that's about as far is it goes. She isn't defined or motivated by her faith.
There would seem to be a lot of untapped ground for storytelling. I wonder why it hasn't happened. So, what do you think: Agnostic/Athiest writers trying to force their worldview on impressionable children, or writers shying away from something that could be handled very badly and offensively?
I, for one, would like to see some character get revamped as a Born Again Christian, rather than the usual darker, angrier more violent version. And not a religious zealot either -- tolerent, although perhaps disapproving at times.
Plus, it would give writers a chance to answer the question that I know we've all been pondering: "Did Jesus die for Superman's sins?"
> I'm not religious myself, but I know that for a large chunk of the > population, faith is an important part of their lives.
> Huntress has a Christian Prostitute wardrobe, but that's about as far > is it goes. She isn't defined or motivated by her faith.
She's definitely Catholic, as evinced many times in her appearances, and attends Mass too I think.
Nightcrawler is devoutly Catholic and Kitty Pryde is Jewish
The Titans discuss their faith in the first Brother Blood arc. IIRC Dick states he believes but doesn't attend a church, and Wally is in much the same situation, but is less certain
Deadman believes in a deity called Rama Kushna (Whom he has had conversations with)
Nightshade is also a Catholic, and regularly took confession with the priest assigned to the Suicide Squad.
> There would seem to be a lot of untapped ground for storytelling. I > wonder why it hasn't happened. So, what do you think: Agnostic/Athiest > writers trying to force their worldview on impressionable children, or > writers shying away from something that could be handled very badly > and offensively?
Or 3) agnostic/athiest writers who aren't trying to force a worldview on anyone, but aren't interested in writing about religion, either.
The GA Plastic Man's origin always seemed to me to be a story of religious conversion, with the religion strangely blacked out. Criminal is fatally wounded, nursed back to health by monks whose goodness convinces him to change the course of his life? Sounds like a conversion experience to me.
Dave Doty
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"Brian Doyle" <No_s...@freeserve.co.uk> writes: >[Huntress is] definitely Catholic, as evinced many times in her appearances, >and attends Mass too I think. >Nightcrawler is devoutly Catholic and Kitty Pryde is Jewish
Ever-lovin' blue-eyed Benjamin J. Grimm is also Jewish - by heritage and childhood, if not by present practice.
>Wally is in much the same situation [as Nightwing], but is less certain
That would be before Wally discovered that God is really the Speed Force, and Uncle Barry was the Messiah! Oh, wait, that never happened. Moving on . . .
Pre-Crisis, Superman worshipped (or studied and made use of rituals from the worship of, at least) a god named Rao. Rao was apparently a Kryptonian Sun-God, although it was implied several times that "Rao" was in fact the Kryptonian name for the same One True God(TM) in which Terran Jews, Christians, and Muslims believe. Post-Crisis, Supes has mentioned Rao - royally set Zeus off once just by saying the name! Was that ever explored? - but hasn't been seen to be active in Rao-worship. In the PZ Krypton storyline the bad-guy movers and shakers were a Rao cult, IIRC.
What was Clark and Lois's wedding ritual, btw? Non-religious? Non-denominational Christian? Something else? (Pre-Crisis, I don't recall any details about Lois's wedding to CLARK on Earth-2, but there was a separate ceremony in the Fortress with Superman done according to the Kryptonian tradition. I still remember the lines "In the name of Rao, who shaped the sun, . . ." (the bride's answer had "moons" in place of "sun". Maybe that whole Sun=Man Moon=Woman thing was part of Kryptonian tradition, too, although it seems unlikely somehow :)).
>I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any >real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.
In additions to the ones others mentioned, I thought of Zauriel, but I'm not sure he *is* religious, as we'd understand it. Religion is an interpratation of a truth that he actually *knows*.
-- Dave The Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc Four-and-twenty Lib Dems came down from Inverness, And when the vote was counted there were four-and-twenty less. -Rory Bremner, 7/3/04
>I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any >real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.
>I think there are more minority superheros than religious ones.
Black Lightning, as written by his creator (pardon the pun), Tony Isabella, was a devout Christian, IIRC. Too bad DC decided to throw that out and make him a cold-blooded murderer....
<No_s...@freeserve.co.uk> wrote: >"Gustavo Wombat" <GustavoWom...@yahoo.com> wrote in message >news:6dc8909e.0404221103.7e134677@posting.google.com... >> I'm not religious myself, but I know that for a large chunk of the >> population, faith is an important part of their lives. >> Huntress has a Christian Prostitute wardrobe, but that's about as far >> is it goes. She isn't defined or motivated by her faith. >She's definitely Catholic, as evinced many times in her appearances, and >attends Mass too I think. >Nightcrawler is devoutly Catholic and Kitty Pryde is Jewish
Marvel has plenty of (real-world) religious characters: Wolfsbane, Firebird ...
>The Titans discuss their faith in the first Brother Blood arc. IIRC Dick >states he believes but doesn't attend a church, and Wally is in much the >same situation, but is less certain >Deadman believes in a deity called Rama Kushna (Whom he has had >conversations with) >Nightshade is also a Catholic, and regularly took confession with the priest >assigned to the Suicide Squad.
From: Mark J. Reed mr...@thereeds.org Date: 22/04/04 21:07 GMT Daylight Time
>What was Clark and Lois's wedding ritual, btw? Non-religious? >Non-denominational Christian? Something else?
The officiator (if that's the word) was a Protastant minister, I think, but there wasn't anything specific to one religion in the ceremony, and it took place in the decidedly non-denominational Metropolis Chapel of United Faiths. -- Dave The Official Absentee of EU Skiffeysoc http://www.eusa.ed.ac.uk/societies/sesoc Four-and-twenty Lib Dems came down from Inverness, And when the vote was counted there were four-and-twenty less. -Rory Bremner, 7/3/04
> So, what do you think: Agnostic/Athiest writers trying to force their > worldview on impressionable children, or writers shying away from > something that could be handled very badly and offensively?
Companies not wanting to raise the issue, out of fear of losing readers (either through offending someone, or by having people say "I'm not (Particular Faith), I don't want to read about someone who is").
O'Course, the Spectre was Christian, even if there were bits of other faiths mixed in. At least, before J.M. DeMatteis wrote him. Hal Jordan probably became a Hindu.
Jesse Custer... uh, believes that God exists.
Swamp Thing met Jes... nevermind.
I think Donna Troy went to church once.
Dave Doty
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Martian Manhunter has been shown to venerate a set of Martian gods--the most prominent of which is H'ronmeer, the Martian god of, I think, death and fire. He also venerates his ancestors. I'd never have remembered this except I just reread a comic yesterday in which this is mentioned.
> I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any > real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.
> I think there are more minority superheros than religious ones.
> Not that I want to see "The Teen Titans" become "The Christian > Crusaders, with their Happy Hindu friend and wacky Orthodox Jew > sidekick", but seems unrealistic that there would be none.
> I'm not religious myself, but I know that for a large chunk of the > population, faith is an important part of their lives.
> Huntress has a Christian Prostitute wardrobe, but that's about as far > is it goes. She isn't defined or motivated by her faith.
> There would seem to be a lot of untapped ground for storytelling. I > wonder why it hasn't happened. So, what do you think: Agnostic/Athiest > writers trying to force their worldview on impressionable children, or > writers shying away from something that could be handled very badly > and offensively?
> I, for one, would like to see some character get revamped as a Born > Again Christian, rather than the usual darker, angrier more violent > version. And not a religious zealot either -- tolerent, although > perhaps disapproving at times.
> Plus, it would give writers a chance to answer the question that I > know we've all been pondering: "Did Jesus die for Superman's sins?"
On 22 Apr 2004 12:03:34 -0700, GustavoWom...@yahoo.com (Gustavo
Wombat) wrote: >I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any >real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.
>I think there are more minority superheros than religious ones.
>Not that I want to see "The Teen Titans" become "The Christian >Crusaders, with their Happy Hindu friend and wacky Orthodox Jew >sidekick", but seems unrealistic that there would be none.
>I'm not religious myself, but I know that for a large chunk of the >population, faith is an important part of their lives.
Huh, no one's brought up Daredevil yet, who's faith has often played a prominent role in his own comic.
> >I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any > >real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.
> In additions to the ones others mentioned, I thought of Zauriel, but I'm not > sure he *is* religious, as we'd understand it. Religion is an interpratation of > a truth that he actually *knows*.
There was a nice conversation between Magma and Empath one time, when she tells him about meeting Hercules. He ponders whose faith is greater, her's, because she has met one of her deities (Well, demi-deity, but you get the idea), or his, because he has faith in something he's never seen (Despite the fact that Empath was a sociopathic sadist up until about this point (Thank you Ms Simonson!) and was about as Un-Christian as it's possible to imagine)
> > So, what do you think: Agnostic/Athiest writers trying to force their > > worldview on impressionable children, or writers shying away from > > something that could be handled very badly and offensively?
> Companies not wanting to raise the issue, out of fear of losing readers > (either through offending someone, or by having people say "I'm not > (Particular Faith), I don't want to read about someone who is").
Strange how many villains are seemingly empowered by demons, and how few heroes are seemingly empowered by God (Well, not in the same, "Hands on" approach as say Sabbac or Mephisto.)
> Martian Manhunter has been shown to venerate a set of Martian gods--the most > prominent of which is H'ronmeer, the Martian god of, I think, death and > fire.
There's also a God of Dreams, IIRC, which is how he percieves Morpheus the Sandman (Morpheus was touched by his faith, and granted him a specific dream of a specific place, which J'onn seemed honoured by)
> >I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any > >real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.
> >I think there are more minority superheros than religious ones.
> >Not that I want to see "The Teen Titans" become "The Christian > >Crusaders, with their Happy Hindu friend and wacky Orthodox Jew > >sidekick", but seems unrealistic that there would be none.
> >I'm not religious myself, but I know that for a large chunk of the > >population, faith is an important part of their lives.
> Huh, no one's brought up Daredevil yet, who's faith has often played a > prominent role in his own comic.
> I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any > real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.
> I think there are more minority superheros than religious ones.
> Not that I want to see "The Teen Titans" become "The Christian > Crusaders, with their Happy Hindu friend and wacky Orthodox Jew > sidekick", but seems unrealistic that there would be none.
> I'm not religious myself, but I know that for a large chunk of the > population, faith is an important part of their lives.
> Huntress has a Christian Prostitute wardrobe, but that's about as far > is it goes. She isn't defined or motivated by her faith.
> There would seem to be a lot of untapped ground for storytelling. I > wonder why it hasn't happened. So, what do you think: Agnostic/Athiest > writers trying to force their worldview on impressionable children, or > writers shying away from something that could be handled very badly > and offensively?
> I, for one, would like to see some character get revamped as a Born > Again Christian, rather than the usual darker, angrier more violent > version. And not a religious zealot either -- tolerent, although > perhaps disapproving at times.
> Plus, it would give writers a chance to answer the question that I > know we've all been pondering: "Did Jesus die for Superman's sins?"
> --Gustavo
A couple thoughts
Thor would have to believe in his faith. So there is at least one. (Is that what you meant by "certainly not in the DC universe")
As to why we don't see them. There is an expression "Never discuss religion or politics". Presumable because it will always lead to a disagreement at the least and a major blowout is not uncommon. Some things people believe so strongly that nothing will sway them. If you suggest that they may be wrong, it won't be taken well.DC and Marvel are avoiding the issue so as not to piss off half of their readers. (although they don't seem to be too averse to stating an opinion on the political issues)
> I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any > real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.
> I think there are more minority superheros than religious ones.
> Not that I want to see "The Teen Titans" become "The Christian > Crusaders, with their Happy Hindu friend and wacky Orthodox Jew > sidekick", but seems unrealistic that there would be none.
> I'm not religious myself, but I know that for a large chunk of the > population, faith is an important part of their lives.
> Huntress has a Christian Prostitute wardrobe, but that's about as far > is it goes. She isn't defined or motivated by her faith.
> There would seem to be a lot of untapped ground for storytelling. I > wonder why it hasn't happened. So, what do you think: Agnostic/Athiest > writers trying to force their worldview on impressionable children, or > writers shying away from something that could be handled very badly > and offensively?
> I, for one, would like to see some character get revamped as a Born > Again Christian, rather than the usual darker, angrier more violent > version. And not a religious zealot either -- tolerent, although > perhaps disapproving at times.
> Plus, it would give writers a chance to answer the question that I > know we've all been pondering: "Did Jesus die for Superman's sins?"
> --Gustavo
Just happened to think of a couple more.
I think the Spectre would be pretty religious.
Some one mentioned Plastic Man's origin, So I think Dr. Strange might qualify as his back story is similar.
> "Gustavo Wombat" <GustavoWom...@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:6dc8909e.0404221103.7e134677@posting.google.com... > > I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any > > real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.
> > I think there are more minority superheros than religious ones.
> > Not that I want to see "The Teen Titans" become "The Christian > > Crusaders, with their Happy Hindu friend and wacky Orthodox Jew > > sidekick", but seems unrealistic that there would be none.
> > I'm not religious myself, but I know that for a large chunk of the > > population, faith is an important part of their lives.
> > Huntress has a Christian Prostitute wardrobe, but that's about as far > > is it goes. She isn't defined or motivated by her faith.
> > There would seem to be a lot of untapped ground for storytelling. I > > wonder why it hasn't happened. So, what do you think: Agnostic/Athiest > > writers trying to force their worldview on impressionable children, or > > writers shying away from something that could be handled very badly > > and offensively?
> > I, for one, would like to see some character get revamped as a Born > > Again Christian, rather than the usual darker, angrier more violent > > version. And not a religious zealot either -- tolerent, although > > perhaps disapproving at times.
> > Plus, it would give writers a chance to answer the question that I > > know we've all been pondering: "Did Jesus die for Superman's sins?"
> > --Gustavo
> A couple thoughts
> Thor would have to believe in his faith. So there is at least one. (Is that > what you meant by "certainly not in the DC universe")
> As to why we don't see them. There is an expression "Never discuss religion > or politics". Presumable because it will always lead to a disagreement at > the least and a major blowout is not uncommon. Some things people believe so > strongly that nothing will sway them. If you suggest that they may be wrong, > it won't be taken well.DC and Marvel are avoiding the issue so as not to > piss off half of their readers. (although they don't seem to be too averse > to stating an opinion on the political issues)
It's likely because politics are seen as something about which reasonable men may reasonably disagree- but when you get in to issues of religion, many folks are still of the feeling that to disagree with their particular faith/sect/cult/holy books is to court damnation.
Dave
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> I can't think of any major superheroes that strongly believe in any > real faith, and that surprises me. Certainly not in the DC Universe.
Obsidian was a veritfied Catholic while Jade was Protestant (but no particular denomination named). This information came out of one of the earlier issues of Infinity, Inc.
> I think there are more minority superheros than religious ones.
It's hard to say. The major heroes don't get into this because comic writers are probably worried about offending people. Minor heroes (or those without their own books) don't have the chance to let you know about their religious affiliations (or lack of).
> Not that I want to see "The Teen Titans" become "The Christian > Crusaders, with their Happy Hindu friend and wacky Orthodox Jew > sidekick", but seems unrealistic that there would be none.
Atom-Smasher is Jewish. There was a member of JLE named Maya who was, I think, Hindu.
> I'm not religious myself, but I know that for a large chunk of the > population, faith is an important part of their lives.
> Huntress has a Christian Prostitute wardrobe, but that's about as far > is it goes. She isn't defined or motivated by her faith.
Do we know that? (I don't, because I haven't read anything with her in it outside of the first issue of her series and her appearances in JLA.)
> There would seem to be a lot of untapped ground for storytelling. I > wonder why it hasn't happened. So, what do you think: Agnostic/Athiest > writers trying to force their worldview on impressionable children, or > writers shying away from something that could be handled very badly > and offensively?
> I, for one, would like to see some character get revamped as a Born > Again Christian, rather than the usual darker, angrier more violent > version. And not a religious zealot either -- tolerent, although > perhaps disapproving at times.
I'd rather not have the Born Again Christian, but instead someone who has a solid faith and who is willing to show it.
> Plus, it would give writers a chance to answer the question that I > know we've all been pondering: "Did Jesus die for Superman's sins?"
We all know he did. He came (again), died, and arose to help us.
> Thor would have to believe in his faith. So there is at least one. (Is > that what you meant by "certainly not in the DC universe")
This sort of goes against the idea of "faith". Thor doesn't have a faith associated with him. He's just there. Since an ever-growing number of stories have him act as nothing more than an average child (super-powered, of course), it's hard to imagine he sees himself as anything other than just a person.
> As to why we don't see them. There is an expression "Never discuss > religion or politics". Presumable because it will always lead to a > disagreement at the least and a major blowout is not uncommon. Some > things people believe so strongly that nothing will sway them. If you > suggest that they may be wrong, it won't be taken well.DC and Marvel > are avoiding the issue so as not to piss off half of their readers. > (although they don't seem to be too averse to stating an opinion on > the political issues)
True, but being highly political in comics seems to be fairly new. It could be that views on religious expression will change.
> True, but being highly political in comics seems to be fairly new. It > could be that views on religious expression will change.
Depends on what you mean by "new." The highly political Green Lantern/Green Arrow, often cited as a turning point in DC's approach to comics with its "relevance", came out in 1970.
Dave Doty
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