LSH: AOL Chat for 5/9/96 with McCraw, Moy & Peyer
T. Troy McNemar, Esq.
Tom McCraw (LSH/L* co-plotter/colorist)and Jeff Moy (L*
penciller) were the guests on America Online's Legionnaires Chat
for Thursday, May 9, 1996. Tom Peyer (LSH co-plotter/scripter)
attended briefly, but was called away on a new puppy emergency.
Legion of Super-Heroes Chat is held every Tuesday in the DC
Comics Online area of AOL at 6:00 p.m. EST. Legionnaires Chat is
held every Thursday in the same area at 10:00 p.m. EST.
(Keyword: DC CHAT.) Regular guests include Tom Peyer, Tom
McCraw, Roger Stern, Mark Waid, Jeff Moy, Ron Boyd, KC Carlson
and Mike McAvennie.
DISCLAIMER - Information presented herein is not guaranteed to be
reliable. Due to the nature of the chats, misinterpretations of
the creators' comments do occur. No wagering, please.
SPOILERS - Information that tends to spoil current or upcoming
issues is located toward the end of this report. Spoiler space
separates such spoiler information this week due to the heavy
spoiler content.
SUBSCRIPTIONS - If you'd like to subscribe (or unsubscribe) to
these chat reports, please send me an e-mail at
"tro...@indirect.com".
====================
Jeff likes all the Legionnaires, and couldn't identify one that
he doesn't like.
Jeff promises that L* #38 will be lots of fun, and have lots of
Imra.
Jeff doesn't know when we'll see more VR.
KC has asked Jeff to draw a teenaged Sugar and Spike in an
upcoming story.
Shvaughn and Element Lad don't know each other yet.
McCraw promises that Dirk Morgna (preboot Sun Boy) will appear
again. Right now, he's a supporting cast member like Tenzil Kem
(preboot Matter-Eater Lad).
McCraw would like to see all the Legion characters in KINGDOM
COME come together some day. When it was pointed out that McCraw
was the writer and could make it happen, he responded that he was
only one of the writers and the others and his editor must also
agree.
Spoilers!
Spoilers!
Spoilers!
Spoilers!
L* #41 is the first issue that takes place after part of the team
becomes trapped in the 20th century. Jeff has already started
working on the issue.
Ultra Boy will be part of the 20th century Legion team with
Saturn Girl and Gates.
XS and Triad will remain in the 30th century with Leviathan.
Peyer indicates that none of the 20th century Legionnaires will
develop amnesia.
Jeff is disappointed that he's losing at least one of his
favorite characters to the 20th century team (whose exploits will
be chronicled in LSH).
There will be Legion tryouts in L* #43. McCraw is trying to
squeeze at least one of the members of the preboot Legion of
Substitute Heroes into the story.
Jeff indicates that the 30th century Legion will add at least one
new member to the team after the split. The new member(s) appear
in KINGDOM COME #1. (ED - It's unclear from the transcript
whether--if there is more than one member joining--all of the
members appear in KINGDOM COME, or just some of them.)
McCraw indicates that they're trying to give all the characters
their own merit in the postboot, including Dream Girl. McCraw
believes that her powers are difficult to write sometimes, and
that napping and dreaming is not practical during a battle with a
villain. He emphasized that her powers are not really being
revamped, but that she won't drift off in the middle of battles
to find out things.
A potential villain appears in L* #41.
Jeff declined an opportunity to reassure Shrinking Violet fans
who are concerned about her role in the upcoming Emerald Eye
storyline. He indicates that they want to scare fans. McCraw
indicates that we should keep our eye on Vi.
All of the Legionnaires are receiving new costumes soon, but they
won't keep the costumes for a long period of time. Four of the
new costumes--Brainiac Five, Gates and Chameleon by Lee Moder;
and Kinetix by Jeff Moy--have appeared in previews on AOL. It's
difficult to make out details of the new costumes because they're
highlighted in a very bright green.
--
T. Troy McNemar, Esq. Tro...@indirect.com
"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."
--Ford Prefect, "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy"
LLL!
Carl Fink
In article <1996051222...@bud.indirect.com>,
>
>Spoilers!
>
>
>
>
>Spoilers!
>
>
>
>Spoilers!
>
>
>
>Spoilers!
>
>
>McCraw indicates that they're trying to give all the characters
>their own merit in the postboot, including Dream Girl. McCraw
>believes that her powers are difficult to write sometimes, and
>that napping and dreaming is not practical during a battle with a
>villain. He emphasized that her powers are not really being
>revamped, but that she won't drift off in the middle of battles
>to find out things.
That's remarkably meaningless, since Nura never did drift off in
the midst of battle. What was he thinking?
--
Carl Fink ca...@panix.com madsci...@genie.com
Dueling Modems, Inc. http://www.sfrt.com/sfrt/
". . . stories have to end. It's what gives them meaning." -Neil Gaiman
Dwight Williams
Carl Fink (ca...@panix.com) writes:
> In article <1996051222...@bud.indirect.com>,
>>
>>Spoilers!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Spoilers!
>>
>>
>>
>>Spoilers!
>>
>>
>>
>>Spoilers!
>>
>>
>>McCraw indicates that they're trying to give all the characters
>>their own merit in the postboot, including Dream Girl. McCraw
>>believes that her powers are difficult to write sometimes, and
>>that napping and dreaming is not practical during a battle with a
>>villain. He emphasized that her powers are not really being
>>revamped, but that she won't drift off in the middle of battles
>>to find out things.
>
> That's remarkably meaningless, since Nura never did drift off in
> the midst of battle. What was he thinking?
Not much that day...which is odd for him these days, IMHO. Considering her
sciences background and her attention to unarmed combat training, she
brought a lot to the Legion. Not as proficient as Brainy in the sciences
or Val in the combat schooling, but she managed fairly well.
--
Dwight Williams(ad...@freenet.carleton.ca) -- Orleans, Ontario, Canada
Sidne Ward
ad...@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Dwight Williams) writes:
>Carl Fink (ca...@panix.com) writes:
>> In article <1996051222...@bud.indirect.com>,
>>>
>>>Spoilers!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Spoilers!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Spoilers!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Spoilers!
>>>
>>>
>>>McCraw indicates that they're trying to give all the characters
>>>their own merit in the postboot, including Dream Girl. McCraw
>>>believes that her powers are difficult to write sometimes, and
>>>that napping and dreaming is not practical during a battle with a
>>>villain. He emphasized that her powers are not really being
>>>revamped, but that she won't drift off in the middle of battles
>>>to find out things.
>>
>> That's remarkably meaningless, since Nura never did drift off in
>> the midst of battle. What was he thinking?
>Not much that day...which is odd for him these days, IMHO. Considering her
>sciences background and her attention to unarmed combat training, she
>brought a lot to the Legion. Not as proficient as Brainy in the sciences
>or Val in the combat schooling, but she managed fairly well.
I don't have a chat log in front of me, but IIRC this is just a case of
Tom kidding around after I started teasing about Dreamy's powers. I
believe that Tom said something about her powers being hard to write and
I added something about having to fall asleep during a fight to use your
powers to the fullest could be a problem. He then, again in jest, agreed
with me.
Don't take these chat reports so literally. Remember Troy's disclaimer
at the top. There are typically 25 or so attendees. It's all anyone
(especially the creators) can do to keep up. *Lots* of kidding goes on.
I assure you as someone who was present and involved in the discussion in
question, Tom McCraw did *not* make any mistakes about Dreamy's use of
her powers.
Hope this puts your minds at ease. :)
Sidne Gail Ward
sw...@sky.net
sw...@primenet.com
T. Troy McNemar, Esq.
>>
>>Spoilers!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Spoilers!
>>
>>
>>
>>Spoilers!
>>
>>
>>
>>Spoilers!
>>
>>
>>He emphasized that her powers are not really being
>>revamped, but that she won't drift off in the middle of battles
>>to find out things.
>
>That's remarkably meaningless, since Nura never did drift off in
>the midst of battle. What was he thinking?
Maybe he was thinking about LSH #262 when Nura drifted off in the middle of
battle. :)
--
T. Troy McNemar, Esq. Tro...@indirect.com
"It's more sincere sounding when you don't giggle."
--Dilbert, "Still Pumped From Using The Mouse"
LLL!
Avedon Carol
SPOILER SPACE
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
..
.
.
.
> All of the Legionnaires are receiving new costumes soon, but they
> won't keep the costumes for a long period of time. Four of the
> new costumes--Brainiac Five, Gates and Chameleon by Lee Moder;
> and Kinetix by Jeff Moy--have appeared in previews on AOL. It's
> difficult to make out details of the new costumes because they're
> highlighted in a very bright green.
It figures that when they finally come up with a good solution to the LSH
looking like both a team and individuals (the belt'n'stripe solution) -
and IMO giving most of the team the best costumes they've evr had - they
can't leave well alone but have to go and change them. I'll reserve
judgement for now, but having given some of the hideous designs members
of the team have been saddled with at various times I can't say I'm too
optimistic.
Rob Hansen <http://www.interedu.com/interedu/iecuk.html>
(Though using Avedon Carol's account, I am not her, nor does she
read this newsgroup. Please watch those automatic attributors.
Avedon's feminist anti-censorship page can be seen at
http://www.fullfeed.com/hypatia/censor.html)
Sean MacDonald
Rob Hansen, whose opinions are always the complete opposite
of my own, wrote:
>SPOILER SPACE
>It figures that when they finally come up with a good solution to the LSH
>looking like both a team and individuals (the belt'n'stripe solution) -
I don't think this is a good solution, but then I don't think
there is any reason, much less a need, for the LSH to
wear similar costumes.
Celebrate diversity!
>and IMO giving most of the team the best costumes they've evr had -
Personally, I think some are awful. Brainiac 5's I particularly
dislike. (And saying that Lyle has the best costume ever now,
is damning by faint praise--though I kind of liked the early
yellow ones...) I suppose I could say that I don't think that
Laurel has the best costume ever, as I preferred her Valor
Girl costume...
they
>can't leave well alone but have to go and change them.
I could have sworn someone posted that these were going to
be temporary, or else I would be elated.
I'll reserve
>judgement for now, but having given some of the hideous designs members
>of the team have been saddled with at various times I can't say I'm too
>optimistic.
Yeah, like those awful belts with the L's on them... <g>
--
-SM
"It seemed a dreadful injustice that these wise races should
perish at the hands of creatures who were still little more
than animals. It was as if vultures feasted on and squabbled
over the paralyzed body of the youthful poet who could only
stare at them with puzzled eyes as they slowly robbed him of
an exquisite existence they would never appreciate, never know
they were taking. 'If they valued what they stole, if they knew
what they were destroying...then I would be consoled.'"
-Michael Moorcock
Avedon Carol
Sean MacDonald wrote:
> Rob Hansen, whose opinions are always the complete opposite
> of my own, wrote:
Always? Are you a Republican?
Sean MacDonald
Rob Hansen wrote:
>Sean MacDonald wrote:
>> Rob Hansen, whose opinions are always the complete opposite
>> of my own,
>Always? Are you a Republican?
Closer to Libertarian, but yeah.
ObComics: Ever notice how conservative characters in comics
are always treated as either evil incarnate or totally
bonkers, like Rorshach?
ObLSH: Um...
Let's see.
Hmmm...
I suppose R.J. Brande would be a conservative, or
would this ruin his image as a nice guy? I suppose Leland
McCauley is, since he's a jerk and rich, so the writers
wouldn't have to stretch our imagination by having a nice
character who is also conservative. <grumble>
--
-SM
JohnHeaton
In article <4nqier$t...@maze.dpo.uab.edu>, Sean MacDonald
<mcdo...@vorteb.math.uab.edu> writes:
>ObComics: Ever notice how conservative characters in comics
>are always treated as either evil incarnate or totally
>bonkers, like Rorshach?
What about Icon? He was portrayed as "conservative" right from
the start.
>ObLSH: Um...
> Let's see.
> Hmmm...
> I suppose R.J. Brande would be a conservative, or
>would this ruin his image as a nice guy? I suppose Leland
>McCauley is, since he's a jerk and rich, so the writers
>wouldn't have to stretch our imagination by having a nice
>character who is also conservative. <grumble>
RJ certainly doesn't seem to be a fiscal conservative, given
the amount of money he's thrown at the Legion. But the
only overtly "political" character we've seen was Jeanne
Chu, who didn't seem particularly conservative to me.
(She was being lenient with mass killers, and conspiring
to undermine a duly deputized law enforcement agency!)
--------------------------------
John Heaton JohnH...@aol.com
john_...@wellstone.senate.gov
christopher j rednour,sa120a cd,244-5012,8
In a previous article, mcdo...@vorteb.math.uab.edu (Sean MacDonald) says:
>
>ObLSH: Um...
> Let's see.
> Hmmm...
> I suppose R.J. Brande would be a conservative, or
>would this ruin his image as a nice guy?
I don't see why it would. I imagine he is generally conservative on
economic issues, but not necessarily on social issues [probably depend on
the issue, though].
>I suppose Leland
>McCauley is, since he's a jerk and rich, so the writers
>wouldn't have to stretch our imagination by having a nice
>character who is also conservative. <grumble>
I suspect Leland would want a dictatorship with him in lead...
-Chris
--
==================Ibis the Invincible=================================
?
----------...@dekalb.dc.peachnet.edu--------------------------
Ben Weiss
On 21 May 1996 15:24:05 -0400,
>
>RJ certainly doesn't seem to be a fiscal conservative, given
>the amount of money he's thrown at the Legion. But the
>only overtly "political" character we've seen was Jeanne
>Chu, who didn't seem particularly conservative to me.
>(She was being lenient with mass killers, and conspiring
>to undermine a duly deputized law enforcement agency!)
>
mercenaries to overthrow a legitimately elected Nicaraguan
government. (Donning asbestos suit...)
I'd call Winema Wazzo overtly political as well, and she seems like a
better case for a fiscal conservative. (Also, given the scene with
Tinya in L* #23, one of those Dan Quayle-type hypocritical social
conservatives who only want the rules to apply to other people. Guess
I'd better stay in the asbestos suit.)
Ben
Ben Weiss
On 20 May 1996 19:50:51 GMT,
>
>ObComics: Ever notice how conservative characters in comics
>are always treated as either evil incarnate or totally
>bonkers, like Rorshach?
Mainstream comics usually try to be pretty apolitical. The bigot and
the greedy rich guy are stock villains who I suppose could be considered
conservative, but another equally stock character is the radical blinded
by his/her own warped vision of justice.
_Watchmen_ doesn't really fit into a discussion of mainstream comics,
but I recall Captain Metropolis being depicted as conservative. The title
character in _Icon_, BTW, is a black conservative, although his sidekick
Rocket has been making him rethink some things.
>
>ObLSH: Um...
> Let's see.
> Hmmm...
> I suppose R.J. Brande would be a conservative, or
>would this ruin his image as a nice guy? I suppose Leland
>McCauley is, since he's a jerk and rich, so the writers
>wouldn't have to stretch our imagination by having a nice
>character who is also conservative. <grumble>
>
The labels might have different meanings in the 30th. Obviously
Brande doesn't share McCauley's bigoted side, but he could be a
libertarian-conservative type. What would Brande have to be
for/against to be a conservative? He's obviously for interplanetary
peace and respect for all species; would he be against regulation of
business, or aid to the poor?
For the record, I've been reading Gim as a conservative as far as
those things go--he has the authoritarian prejudices of his military
family/law enforcement background, and seems to have more disputes
with Gates than anybody else. And I wouldn't call the portrayals of
Gates (or, pre-v.4, Tyroc) entirely positive.
Ben
Andrew A. Apold
Andrew looked up from his commemorative LSH/LSV chess set when he heard someone using Ben Weiss's account say:
>
>On 21 May 1996 15:24:05 -0400,
>JohnHeaton <johnh...@aol.com > wrote:
>>
>>RJ certainly doesn't seem to be a fiscal conservative, given
>>the amount of money he's thrown at the Legion. But the
>>only overtly "political" character we've seen was Jeanne
>>Chu, who didn't seem particularly conservative to me.
>>(She was being lenient with mass killers, and conspiring
>>to undermine a duly deputized law enforcement agency!)
>>
>Then again, it *was* Ronald Reagan's administration who hired
>mercenaries to overthrow a legitimately elected Nicaraguan
>government. (Donning asbestos suit...)
Hey, isn't that stuff carcinogenic? Reagan gets off on a
technicality (the mercenaries didn't overthrow the Nicaraguan
gov't). Chile, on the other hand...
I can't see an organization as large as the UP being dominated
by simplistic bipartisan politics of nominal conservatives
and liberals. The UP would be far better suited to
a more parlimentry style of governing, with various parties,
interests, and organizations throughout the UP throwing
support behind one goal or another, and control being
formed by coalition. I know, the UP has a "president",
but this is a title. With either form, R.J. seems
to be merely elected by the governing body, not
the people themselves at this time. So sometime
in the future, when the writers get around to it, we
have to have another "election day" issue. Such a thing
would take time to organize, I'd think, on the scale of
the UP...
Andrew Apold (mor...@magg.net)
/**********************************************/
/ C/C++, Legion, Blue Oyster Cult, Pink Floyd /
/ Hawkwind, Amtgard, Vikings, and S.A. Spurs /
/**********************************************/
"I was corrupt BEFORE I had power!"
-Random
Trevor Barrie
Sean MacDonald <mcdo...@vorteb.math.uab.edu> wrote:
>ObComics: Ever notice how conservative characters in comics
>are always treated as either evil incarnate or totally
>bonkers, like Rorshach?
I suppose it wouldn't be terribly helpful for me to suggest that this
is only realistic, would it?:)
Avedon Carol
> Rob Hansen wrote:
> >Sean MacDonald wrote:
> >> Rob Hansen, whose opinions are always the complete opposite
> >> of my own,
>
> >Always? Are you a Republican?
>
> Closer to Libertarian, but yeah.
>
> are always treated as either evil incarnate or totally
> bonkers, like Rorshach?
There's a third type: the conservative superhero who's a good guy, but
also a jerk: USAgent, Guy Gardner, and, before DC turned him evil ('cos
we'd all figured out Monarch was Captain Atom), Hank Hall. One exception,
in early-'80s issues of TEEN TITANS, was Wally West, who wasn't portrayed
as a jerk. Well, except for the one story where it was explicitly stated
he was a conservative. He certainly acted as a jerk then. Now that he's
got his own series, this take on him has been completely jettisoned and
he seems pretty liberal. I may be a liberal myself, but I do agree that
conservatives generally aren't portrayed very fairly in comics. I may
profoundly disagree with their politics, but in my experience most
conservatives are no less honest and decent than most liberals. Looks
like there may be something we agree on after all.
As for which LSHers are likely to be conservative - insofar as the term
will have the same meaning in the 30thC - I'd nominate Gim and Imra,
basically because both were SPs and those who choose a career in
law-enforcement tend to be conservative.
Rob Hansen <http://www.interedu.com/interedu/hansen/default.html>
(Though using Avedon Carol's account, I am not her, nor does she
read this newsgroup. Please watch those automatic attributors.)
Lev Kalman
when ave...@cix.compulink.co.uk ("Avedon Carol") wrote this, I nearly dropped my
Omnicom:
>As for which LSHers are likely to be conservative - insofar as the term
>will have the same meaning in the 30thC - I'd nominate Gim and Imra,
>basically because both were SPs and those who choose a career in
>law-enforcement tend to be conservative.
I would say Gates would be conservative/liberatarian...he definantly doesn't
like the govt. interfiering with him.
Lev
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=**
My LSH home page: http://members.gnn.com/levkowman/index.htm
The Space Cowboy can be also called Maurice ( cause he speaks of the pompatous of love)...
"I am looking for people who like to draw"-Mulder, X-Files 15
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
Lev Kalman (levk...@gnn.com) wrote:
: I would say Gates would be conservative/liberatarian...he definantly doesn't
: like the govt. interfiering with him.
This is the first time I've seen this opinion posited on Gates' politics.
*Conservative* libertarian, Lev? Um, I don't think so. *Left-wing*
libertarian, yeah, pretty good chance.
- Elayne
--
E-Mail me, the "Firehead Head," for more info about the official ()~~
Firesign Theatre newsletter, Four-Alarm FIRESIGNal, available via ##
snail mail or free online! "I couldn't get you to believe my name ##
was Mr. and Mrs. John Smith, could I?" _##_
Douglas Limmer
fire...@panix.com (Elayne Wechsler-Chaput) wrote:
>Lev Kalman (levk...@gnn.com) wrote:
>: I would say Gates would be conservative/liberatarian...he definantly doesn't
>: like the govt. interfiering with him.
>This is the first time I've seen this opinion posited on Gates' politics.
>*Conservative* libertarian, Lev? Um, I don't think so. *Left-wing*
>libertarian, yeah, pretty good chance.
Nah. Everybody likes Gates, so everybody projects their own politics
onto Gates. Well, then they add "libertarian" if they know something
about politics. There's probably someone out there who sees Gates as
a communist/libertarian.
Has Gates stated any clear views other than "the government is evil"?
Douglas Limmer -- lim...@math.orst.edu
Jeff Raglin
Well, he sympathised with the Empress' rhetoric, which is clearly
in the Socialist-to-Communist range of the spectrum. Also, the word
"Imperialist" is part of the vocabulary of the radical left (the
radical right uses "One-Worlder" or related terms...)
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
Lev Kalman (levk...@gnn.com) wrote:
: >Lev Kalman (levk...@gnn.com) wrote:
: >: I would say Gates would be conservative/liberatarian...he definantly doesn't
: >: like the govt. interfiering with him.
: fire...@panix.com (Elayne Wechsler-Chaput) wrote:
: >This is the first time I've seen this opinion posited on Gates' politics.
: >*Conservative* libertarian, Lev? Um, I don't think so. *Left-wing*
: >libertarian, yeah, pretty good chance.
: Without turning this into anything too political, I must say that
: conseravite and liberal switch paces too much. Basically I mean conservative
: as in less central government, more local control less government programs.
: That all.
Ah, well then I think you *meant* libertarian. There are conservative
libertarians and leftist libertarians. With the notable exception of
Mike Baron, it is my considered opinion that the latter are more fun at
parties. <g>
Ben Weiss
>> >: I would say Gates would be conservative/liberatarian...he definantly doesn't
>> >: like the govt. interfiering with him.
>>
>> >*Conservative* libertarian, Lev? Um, I don't think so. *Left-wing*
>> >libertarian, yeah, pretty good chance.
>>
>> Nah. Everybody likes Gates, so everybody projects their own politics
>> onto Gates. Well, then they add "libertarian" if they know something
>> about politics. There's probably someone out there who sees Gates as
>> a communist/libertarian.
Lev's a conservative? You've shattered my heroic image of him! :) (And
"communist/libertarian" isn't too far from how I see Gates--see below.)
>>
>> Has Gates stated any clear views other than "the government is evil"?
>
>Well, he sympathised with the Empress' rhetoric, which is clearly
>in the Socialist-to-Communist range of the spectrum. Also, the word
>"Imperialist" is part of the vocabulary of the radical left (the
>radical right uses "One-Worlder" or related terms...)
>
I don't remember any Empress rhetoric other than the line about
"imperialist oppressors," although as Jeff points out, that's rather
leftist phrasing (the right would use "international Jewish (Durlan?)
conspiracy"). But the Empress herself called Gates a "socialist."
I think Gates clearly identified himself as left-wing in LSH #79:
"Given the U.P.'s barbaric social conditions, I'm surprised there
aren't more Tharoks." Conservatives *like* (or at least rationalize)
barbaric social conditions. Seriously, a conservative would have
blamed Tharok on permissive social attitudes or some such.
I've seen political scientists identify four general (American, at
least) political persuasions based on ideologies about government.
Liberals believe in minimal government control over individual
behavior but considerable control over economic matters; conservatives
believe in the reverse, minimal "intrusion" into the economy but lots
of control over individuals; libertarians believe in minimal control
over either; populists support government intervention in both
arenas. Under this formulation, Gates is pretty clearly a liberal,
and one with a strong anti-military bent as well.
Ben
Lev Kalman
when fire...@panix.com (Elayne Wechsler-Chaput) wrote this, I nearly
dropped my Omnicom:
>Lev Kalman (levk...@gnn.com) wrote:
>: I would say Gates would be conservative/liberatarian...he definantly doesn't
>: like the govt. interfiering with him.
>This is the first time I've seen this opinion posited on Gates' politics.
>*Conservative* libertarian, Lev? Um, I don't think so. *Left-wing*
>libertarian, yeah, pretty good chance.
Without turning this into anything too political, I must say that
conseravite and liberal switch paces too much. Basically I mean conservative
as in less central government, more local control less government programs.
That all. Don't follow up on which is better, please!!
Lev
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=**
My LSH home page: http://members.gnn.com/levkowman/index.htm
The Space Cowboy wonders how many times he can reread the first four pages of LSH 82 before Wednesday.
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput
Ben Weiss (weis...@gold.tc.umn.edu) wrote:
: I've seen political scientists identify four general (American, at
: least) political persuasions based on ideologies about government.
: Liberals believe in minimal government control over individual
: behavior but considerable control over economic matters; conservatives
: believe in the reverse, minimal "intrusion" into the economy but lots
: of control over individuals; libertarians believe in minimal control
: over either; populists support government intervention in both
: arenas. Under this formulation, Gates is pretty clearly a liberal,
: and one with a strong anti-military bent as well.
I don't agree with this compartmentalization, because I know too many
people whose political beliefs are a mixture of some of the above. There
are conservative *and* left-leaning libertarians - both believe in minimal
CONTROL over the individual, but leftists believe the government has an
obligation to help (rather than hinder) the less fortunate and
conservatives believe (at least as I understand it) that government should
keep out of everything except, I guess, fulfilling military contracts.
There are also left-leaning and right-leaning populists. Populism tends
to be much more of an up-down thing than a left-right thing. Jim
Hightower is a left-leaning populist; Ross Perot is a right-leaning one.
And as far as I know populists do NOT support government "intrusion" -
there are lots of populist libertarians.
See, it gets a little complicated, doesn't it? :) Based on every clue
we've been given (one being Mr. Peyer's own political leanings), I'd still
have to say Gates is a left-leaning libertarian.
Avedon Carol
> >As for which LSHers are likely to be conservative - insofar as the
> term >will have the same meaning in the 30thC - I'd nominate Gim
> and Imra, >basically because both were SPs and those who choose a
> career in >law-enforcement tend to be conservative.
>
> definantly doesn't like the govt. interfiering with him.
You may be the only one with that take on him, Lev. If you look at, say,
p.4 of LSH #76, Gates complains of "paramilitary maniacs" and says: "once
again it falls to gates to pull the weak from the remorseless
encroachment of the powerful". Sounds more left-wing to me. Left or
right, there are those who don't much care for the government
'interfering' with them, but their reasons are often quite different.
Ben Weiss
On Mon, 27 May 1996 00:29:30 GMT,
Lev Kalman <levk...@gnn.com > wrote:
>
>Without turning this into anything too political, I must say that
>conseravite and liberal switch paces too much. Basically I mean conservative
>as in less central government, more local control less government programs.
>That all. Don't follow up on which is better, please!!
Too late. :-)
Ben
Matthew R. Sheahan
Douglas Limmer (lim...@math.orst.edu) wrote:
> Nah. Everybody likes Gates, so everybody projects their own politics
> onto Gates. Well, then they add "libertarian" if they know something
> about politics. There's probably someone out there who sees Gates as
> a communist/libertarian.
i don't particularly like Gates, and i always thought his presentation
was pure Communist Party, no libertarianism in particular.
> Has Gates stated any clear views other than "the government is evil"?
sigh. what is this 'the government'? he's said no such thing. he's
said 'YOUR government is evil'. loyal servant of the home collective,
don'tchaknow. until they piss him off too badly, at least.
chiaroscuro
SDelMonte
Gates is a radical, pure and simple. He wishes to overthrow the current
system and replace it with something else. His often inflammatory
rhetoric overshadows his actual beliefs. He slings around the usual
phrasings and perhaps doesn't think about what he's saying. In other
words, he's a typical sees-everything-in-black-and-white teenager.
Perhaps his visit to our century will force him to define his beliefs
better. Maybe he'll learn somethng about the utopia of tomorrow, or even
about our time's advantages - there's no such thing as a warrant in the
Legion's time, so perhaps Gates will actually like the Constitution.
All of the above, however, does not mean that I don't like Gates as a
character. He's a truly original addition to our team, a real coup for
the writers. Who created him anyway?
Simon DelMonte
"You've got ME? Who's got YOU?" - Lois Lane
Lev Kalman
when "Ben Weiss" <weis...@gold.tc.umn.edu> wrote this, I nearly dropped my
Omnicom:
>Lev's a conservative? You've shattered my heroic image of him! :) (And
>"communist/libertarian" isn't too far from how I see Gates--see below.)
No, I am a liberatarian...What have I started??
Lev
=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=**
My LSH home page: http://members.gnn.com/levkowman/index.htm
The Space Cowboy is so guilty for starting the politics thread on RACDL, that he may just go and watch thousands of Earths die and not be able to do anything about it as penance.
Trevor Barrie
ch...@crystal.palace.net (Matthew R. Sheahan) wrote:
>> Has Gates stated any clear views other than "the government is evil"?
>sigh. what is this 'the government'? he's said no such thing. he's
>said 'YOUR government is evil'. loyal servant of the home collective,
The scene wherein he conversed with his planet's representative didn't
give the impression that he was to impressed with his own government,
either.
David K. Johnston
>No, I am a liberatarian...What have I started??
>Lev
>
You've created a monster, Lev! A monster! And it won't go away!
Just like Frankensteins monster! And it will continue to terrorize
you and all your friends!
No one is safe!
"It's alive! It's ali-i-ive!"
;)
luv,
-Su
not.allowed(NEWMAN)
Matthew R. Sheahan wrote:
> sigh. what is this 'the government'? he's said no such thing. he's
> said 'YOUR government is evil'. loyal servant of the home collective,
> don'tchaknow. until they piss him off too badly, at least.
Like, by drafting him? My take is that Gates is probably from a
communist society, and is thus well-rooted in communist progranda and
lingo, but is perhaps beginning to see that his own government is just
as oppressive and evil as the other governments around the galaxy, and
is thus moving in a libertarian, or perhaps even anarchist, direction.
--David Taylor
not.allowed(NEWMAN)
Elayne Wechsler-Chaput wrote:
> I don't agree with this compartmentalization, because I know too many
> people whose political beliefs are a mixture of some of the above. There
> are conservative *and* left-leaning libertarians - both believe in minimal
> CONTROL over the individual, but leftists believe the government has an
> obligation to help (rather than hinder)
the less fortunate
But, in that case, they are no longer libertarians, but just plain
liberals. Libertarians believe that government (and society in
general) has no more responsibility to individuals than individuals
have to government. Liberals believe that government should not
intrude in people's personal lives, but have an obligation to promote
social progress (i.e., helping the less fortunate).
> conservatives believe (at least as I understand it) that government should
> keep out of everything except, I guess, fulfilling military contracts.
Actually, most libertarians, from my experience, tend to favor the
withdraw from various military contracts. I believe the removal of
troops from foreign soil is a major plank in the Liberatarian Party
contract.
> There are also left-leaning and right-leaning populists. Populism tends
> to be much more of an up-down thing than a left-right thing. Jim
> Hightower is a left-leaning populist; Ross Perot is a right-leaning one.
> And as far as I know populists do NOT support government "intrusion" -
> there are lots of populist libertarians.
>
Populism is an extremely confusing term which doesn't really correspond
to any philosophical basis, and is made even more confusing by have a
vast number of different meanings. The media tends to refer to anybody
who is consider an outsider, and who thus tries to appeal directly to
the people, as a populist. Thus, people of vastly different positions
become labeled "populist".
What political scientists mean when they use the term is that the
masses of poor, uneducated people generally think that the government
should a) give them lots of money and programs to help them ("intervene
in the economy") and b) keep anybody who is different (i.e.
homosexuals, abstract artists) in line ("intervene in their personal
lives"). Hmm, add a strong sense of national identity among the mass
of people, and you basically get Fascism.
--David Taylor
SDelMonte
In article <31AF83...@vt.edu>, "not.allowed(NEWMAN)"
<not.a...@vt.edu> writes:
>Like, by drafting him? My take is that Gates is probably from a
>communist society, and is thus well-rooted in communist progranda and
>lingo, but is perhaps beginning to see that his own government is just
>as oppressive and evil as the other governments around the galaxy, and
>is thus moving in a libertarian, or perhaps even anarchist, direction.
>
>
Judging by Gates' one contact with his government thus far, I might
actually think his people aren't quite as radical/Communist/libertarian as
he is. His superior is merely yet another standard comic book government
type interested in using a super-hero for propaganda.
This one glimpse into Vyrgan life might support my view that Gates is a
teenaged radical rather than a rtypical Vyrgan. Or maybe not.
Simon DelMonte
"Unlax. Gottim." - Reep Daggle
"Yu've got me? Who's got you?" - Lois Lane