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META: Three Metaphors for Superhero Teams
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Tom Russell
May 2, 2012, 11:31:45 AM5/2/12
to
When I first started writing superhero fiction, I didn't know what I
was doing (which anyone who was unfortunate enough to read that
fiction can easily attest). Part of the problem is that while I
(thought I) knew a lot about the genre, I didn't know a whole lot
about human beings, and the genre is (like all the best genres)
concerned with the human experience, and Things That Matter: death,
life, responsibility, altruism, goodness, badness, means and ends, the
value of the individual, the greater good, sacrafice, overcoming
weakness, and so much more.
If a superhero story doesn't, in some way, concern itself with people,
and doesn't believe in the inherent value of the human endeavor, for
me it's not really a superhero story. My early efforts fell woefully
short of this litmus, and nowhere was this more evident than my first
couple stabs at writing a superhero team series, because here I had
anywhere from six to a dozen characters, none of whom resembled human
beings, or illuminated anything of value about what it means to be a
human being.
It would have helped, I think, if I had picked a metaphor for my
teams, or, for that matter, realized the obvious: good superhero teams
function as metaphors for social groups. These fall into three broad
categories by my reckoning.
1. The team as family. Sometimes, such as the Fantastic Four or Power
Pack, these are literal families. Does that really make it a
metaphor? I think so; superhero families can explore the Big Issues,
and the family dynamic, with a greater felicity than, say, a
continuing series about an everyday family. That is, in a "normal"
family serial, it stretches credibility to have too many kidnappings,
attempted murders, or perilous situations. But for a superhero
family, it's expected. This is one of the great freedoms of the
genre, or any genre really. One of the downsides with literal family
teams is that their line-up is rather static. A makeshift family--
I'd classify the X-Men, when written well, as such a team-- offers
more flexibility (an extended family: cousins) but the familial bonds
usually aren't as tight or dramatic (cousins).
2. The team as social clique, or "friends". This usually manifests
itself as a "teen" team, like the Teen Titans or New Mutants.
(Generation X-- the New New Mutants-- early in its run captured the
way cliques break into wary, circling sub-cliques rather well.)
There's awkward romance and angst to spare in this model.
3. The team as professionals. Call this the Howard Hawks model-- like
some of the great director's films, the characters are good at what
they do, (ideally) stable and sober-minded, "manly" (even when
ladies), and respect one another's abilities and track record. They
are, in a word, colleagues. The Justice League of America and the
Avengers come to mind.
Now, these of course aren't definite categories-- some of the
Avengers, for example, cohabitat, and that imparts a clique or family
feel. Superhero stories should be alive, not souless schematics. But
these dynamics are useful, because they partially inform the part of
the human experience that the work, at least partially, concerns
itself with: family life, social life and adolescence, and working
life. Which, to a large degree, covers pretty much every healthy way
that people interact with two or more other people.
was doing (which anyone who was unfortunate enough to read that
fiction can easily attest). Part of the problem is that while I
(thought I) knew a lot about the genre, I didn't know a whole lot
about human beings, and the genre is (like all the best genres)
concerned with the human experience, and Things That Matter: death,
life, responsibility, altruism, goodness, badness, means and ends, the
value of the individual, the greater good, sacrafice, overcoming
weakness, and so much more.
If a superhero story doesn't, in some way, concern itself with people,
and doesn't believe in the inherent value of the human endeavor, for
me it's not really a superhero story. My early efforts fell woefully
short of this litmus, and nowhere was this more evident than my first
couple stabs at writing a superhero team series, because here I had
anywhere from six to a dozen characters, none of whom resembled human
beings, or illuminated anything of value about what it means to be a
human being.
It would have helped, I think, if I had picked a metaphor for my
teams, or, for that matter, realized the obvious: good superhero teams
function as metaphors for social groups. These fall into three broad
categories by my reckoning.
1. The team as family. Sometimes, such as the Fantastic Four or Power
Pack, these are literal families. Does that really make it a
metaphor? I think so; superhero families can explore the Big Issues,
and the family dynamic, with a greater felicity than, say, a
continuing series about an everyday family. That is, in a "normal"
family serial, it stretches credibility to have too many kidnappings,
attempted murders, or perilous situations. But for a superhero
family, it's expected. This is one of the great freedoms of the
genre, or any genre really. One of the downsides with literal family
teams is that their line-up is rather static. A makeshift family--
I'd classify the X-Men, when written well, as such a team-- offers
more flexibility (an extended family: cousins) but the familial bonds
usually aren't as tight or dramatic (cousins).
2. The team as social clique, or "friends". This usually manifests
itself as a "teen" team, like the Teen Titans or New Mutants.
(Generation X-- the New New Mutants-- early in its run captured the
way cliques break into wary, circling sub-cliques rather well.)
There's awkward romance and angst to spare in this model.
3. The team as professionals. Call this the Howard Hawks model-- like
some of the great director's films, the characters are good at what
they do, (ideally) stable and sober-minded, "manly" (even when
ladies), and respect one another's abilities and track record. They
are, in a word, colleagues. The Justice League of America and the
Avengers come to mind.
Now, these of course aren't definite categories-- some of the
Avengers, for example, cohabitat, and that imparts a clique or family
feel. Superhero stories should be alive, not souless schematics. But
these dynamics are useful, because they partially inform the part of
the human experience that the work, at least partially, concerns
itself with: family life, social life and adolescence, and working
life. Which, to a large degree, covers pretty much every healthy way
that people interact with two or more other people.
Adrian J. McClure
May 2, 2012, 12:46:05 PM5/2/12
to
On May 2, 11:31 am, Tom Russell <joltc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> When I first started writing superhero fiction, I didn't know what I
> was doing (which anyone who was unfortunate enough to read that
> fiction can easily attest).
Well, half the fun of writing is learning what you're doing as you're
> When I first started writing superhero fiction, I didn't know what I
> was doing (which anyone who was unfortunate enough to read that
> fiction can easily attest).
writing. Watching that process is what made Teenfactor so interesting
to me when I recently reread the whole seires. Although whoo boy there
were some painful stretches.
> If a superhero story doesn't, in some way, concern itself with people,
> and doesn't believe in the inherent value of the human endeavor, for
> me it's not really a superhero story.
plaque on their wall.
That's a really interesting taxonomy of superhero teams. But where
does the LNH fit on it? Most subgroups seem to fit the mold of team as
clique/friends, with a few (like Dvandom Force) as professionals. I
can't really think of any that fit the family dynamic. Teenfactor
started out as a clique playing the role of professionals, which would
have been an interesting tension to explore if you'd been aware of it,
and towards the end seemed to be becoming more of a family, when it
was mainly about Terrence, Carolyn, Electra and their close friends.
(Well Electra didn't have any friends.)
But I don't think any of these really fit the LNH as a whole. They're
too large to be a family or a social clique, but too loosely organized
to be a group of professionals. I think the LNH, like the Legion of
Super-Heroes itself, fits a different paradigm: the superhero team as
a fandom. A large group of like-minded people who join together in a
loosely organized group for a common interest, which forms all kinds
of complicated and contradictory social dynamics. Eventually in the
LNH's case it gets large enough that it starts to split into smaller
groups, but they're still linked and the wider group still exists to
bring vastly disparate people and contexts together. That's why fandom
responded so strongly to the LSH, why it was so beloved of hardcore
comics fans as opposed to casual readers, and why people in the early
days of RAC gravitated toward it for their alter egos. (That and the
potential for wonderfully ridiculous names.)
EDMLite
May 2, 2012, 5:23:23 PM5/2/12
to
On May 2, 8:31 am, Tom Russell <joltc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It would have helped, I think, if I had picked a metaphor for my
> teams, or, for that matter, realized the obvious: good superhero teams
> function as metaphors for social groups.
I think it's much, much easier for a writer to build a team
> It would have helped, I think, if I had picked a metaphor for my
> teams, or, for that matter, realized the obvious: good superhero teams
> function as metaphors for social groups.
using already-established characters, whose powers and
personalities are well-known to the reader.
When writers introduce a team of entirely new characters
all at once, they often -- in my opinion -- fall into the
trap of creating stock characters, whose personalities
are defined by their powers.
One way around this is to tell the story from the point
of view of a character new to the team, who learns
about his/her new teammates as we do. Austin
Grossman used this technique well in "Soon I
Will Be Invincible," and Bryan Singer did the same
with Rogue for the first "X-Men" movie.
(And if I'm not mistaken, Tom used the technique
in his re-vamp of "Teenfactor" from a few years ago,
which I really enjoyed).
>These fall into three broad
I think the LNH falls into its own category:
team as multinational corporation.
(Or, if you prefer, team as very large
non-profit organization).
All of the members of the LNH subscribe
to its acting principles, and participate in
its brand. But (with the possible exceptions
of Master Roster Man and perhaps Anal-
Retentive Archive Kid), they don't all know
one another, any more than all of the
co-workers at a large company do.
And there are definite hierarchies within
the company -- senior staff, who make
decisions; average workers, who carry
out assignments; and low-level
functionaries, who man the reception
desk and process paperwork...
It's a framework that allows for a lot of
interaction, even if it doesn't generate the
natural conflicts that a family or
friend dynamic might...
--Easily-Discovered Man Lite
--Basically collects a paycheck
for wandering from room to room
Scott Eiler
May 2, 2012, 7:03:52 PM5/2/12
to
On 05/02/2012 08:31 AM, Tom Russell wrote:
> If a superhero story doesn't, in some way, concern itself with people,
> and doesn't believe in the inherent value of the human endeavor, for
> me it's not really a superhero story.
I'd say instead, it's not really about people. It's like writing about
> If a superhero story doesn't, in some way, concern itself with people,
> and doesn't believe in the inherent value of the human endeavor, for
> me it's not really a superhero story.
(say) Ketchikan-Alaska and not only missing the landscape, but getting
it entirely wrong. If you do that, why bother saying it's about Ketchikan?
I can't say I set out to write stories about the inherent value of the
human endeavor. In fact, lately I gleefully write stories that make fun
of it. The woman who wanted to have children became a romance-novel
cartoon character; the general who wanted to defend his town from
overseas enemies became a buffoon villain. I claim satire license.
Some of my characters really aren't people; they're cartoons.
I do work with human endeavor as part of my landscape, though. My
heroes (even the silly or the borderline ones) actually do believe in
protecting the innocent, even though they usually stumble into doing it.
Even the Powernaut was surprised when he inspired the French
Resistance. And I think PowerTEEN actually became a much better
role-model than his publisher intended. He's kind to his weaker grampa,
and he refuses to see even his enemies/rivals hurt.
> It would have helped, I think, if I had picked a metaphor for my
> teams, or, for that matter, realized the obvious: good superhero teams
> function as metaphors for social groups. These fall into three broad
> categories by my reckoning.
>
> 1. The team as family. Sometimes, such as the Fantastic Four or Power
> Pack, these are literal families.
>
> 2. The team as social clique, or "friends". This usually manifests
> itself as a "teen" team, like the Teen Titans or New Mutants.
>
> itself as a "teen" team, like the Teen Titans or New Mutants.
>
> 3. The team as professionals. Call this the Howard Hawks model-- like
> some of the great director's films, the characters are good at what
> they do, (ideally) stable and sober-minded, "manly" (even when
> ladies), and respect one another's abilities and track record. They
> are, in a word, colleagues. The Justice League of America and the
> Avengers come to mind.
I suppose even satire heroes follow these same rules. The Powernaut
> some of the great director's films, the characters are good at what
> they do, (ideally) stable and sober-minded, "manly" (even when
> ladies), and respect one another's abilities and track record. They
> are, in a word, colleagues. The Justice League of America and the
> Avengers come to mind.
will someday assemble heroes around him, who will at various times fit
in *most* of these categories. But there might be one more:
4. The team thrown together. Not every group of people in a superhero
comic have common cause. The Defenders and the "Heroes" TV show often
fall in this category.
Arthur Spitzer
May 2, 2012, 9:34:23 PM5/2/12
to
On 5/2/12 2:23 PM, EDMLite wrote:
>> >These fall into three broad
>> > categories by my reckoning...
> I think the LNH falls into its own category:
> team as multinational corporation.
> (Or, if you prefer, team as very large
> non-profit organization).
I'd go with the LNH as being the Superhero team as a community...
>> >These fall into three broad
>> > categories by my reckoning...
> I think the LNH falls into its own category:
> team as multinational corporation.
> (Or, if you prefer, team as very large
> non-profit organization).
Or as in the first arc of Beige Midnight... a city...
Arthur "Millions and millions..." Spitzer
Andrew Perron
May 2, 2012, 11:25:33 PM5/2/12
to
On Wed, 2 May 2012 15:31:45 +0000 (UTC), Tom Russell wrote:
> When I first started writing superhero fiction, I didn't know what I
> was doing (which anyone who was unfortunate enough to read that
> fiction can easily attest).
...well, you had ideas!
> When I first started writing superhero fiction, I didn't know what I
> was doing (which anyone who was unfortunate enough to read that
> fiction can easily attest).
> Part of the problem is that while I
> (thought I) knew a lot about the genre, I didn't know a whole lot
> about human beings, and the genre is (like all the best genres)
> concerned with the human experience, and Things That Matter: death,
> life, responsibility, altruism, goodness, badness, means and ends, the
> value of the individual, the greater good, sacrafice, overcoming
> weakness, and so much more.
> It would have helped, I think, if I had picked a metaphor for my
> teams, or, for that matter, realized the obvious: good superhero teams
> function as metaphors for social groups.
> 1. The team as family. Sometimes, such as the Fantastic Four or Power
> Pack, these are literal families. Does that really make it a
> metaphor? I think so; superhero families can explore the Big Issues,
> and the family dynamic, with a greater felicity than, say, a
> continuing series about an everyday family.
sense.
> That is, in a "normal"
> family serial, it stretches credibility to have too many kidnappings,
> attempted murders, or perilous situations. But for a superhero
> family, it's expected. This is one of the great freedoms of the
> genre, or any genre really.
> One of the downsides with literal family
> teams is that their line-up is rather static. A makeshift family--
> I'd classify the X-Men, when written well, as such a team-- offers
> more flexibility (an extended family: cousins) but the familial bonds
> usually aren't as tight or dramatic (cousins).
> 2. The team as social clique, or "friends". This usually manifests
> itself as a "teen" team, like the Teen Titans or New Mutants.
> (Generation X-- the New New Mutants-- early in its run captured the
> way cliques break into wary, circling sub-cliques rather well.)
> There's awkward romance and angst to spare in this model.
this, "team as club".
> 3. The team as professionals. Call this the Howard Hawks model-- like
> some of the great director's films, the characters are good at what
> they do, (ideally) stable and sober-minded, "manly" (even when
> ladies), and respect one another's abilities and track record. They
> are, in a word, colleagues. The Justice League of America and the
> Avengers come to mind.
how professional they acted towards each other - an excellent break from
the level of angst-for-angst's sake that's so common in the medium.
Naturally, the very next writer (Mark Waid, who I usually very much enjoy)
put them right back to sniping and arguing.
> Now, these of course aren't definite categories-- some of the
> Avengers, for example, cohabitat, and that imparts a clique or family
> feel. Superhero stories should be alive, not souless schematics. But
> these dynamics are useful, because they partially inform the part of
> the human experience that the work, at least partially, concerns
> itself with: family life, social life and adolescence, and working
> life. Which, to a large degree, covers pretty much every healthy way
> that people interact with two or more other people.
Team as military unit. This is a bit different than "team as
professionals", as while that version tends to be a sort of Camelot-esque
alliance of equals, this one very much involves a distinct chain of
command, orders, and sometimes being drafted into it. Aspects of this can
be blended with other models - the X-Men have dabbled in it. "Pure"
examples include Suicide Squad, Alpha Flight, at least one version of Power
Rangers, and, of course, ASH.
Team as reality show contestants. This honestly seems like a gimmick; I
can't think of any really successful instance of it, nor anywhere for the
idea to go.
Team as strange bedfellows. These are people who wouldn't normally work
together, but circumstances have tied them together, and they have to live
with it if they're ever going to resolve said circumstances. Sometimes,
this is one person who doesn't fit thrown into one of the above categories,
and over the long term, teams in this category tend to become one of the
above.
Team as rebellion. Hunted by the police, going up against the evil empire,
or whatnot. Pretty simple.
As for the LNH, I'd say that it's actually more sort of... team as social
group, or as trade union. An umbrella organization for people engaging in
a certain type of activity, you know? With the various subgroups being
various of the categories above.
Andrew "NO .SIG MAN" "Juan" Perron, hmmmmmm.
Andrew Perron
May 2, 2012, 11:31:08 PM5/2/12
to
On Wed, 2 May 2012 16:46:05 +0000 (UTC), Adrian J. McClure wrote:
> Most subgroups seem to fit the mold of team as
> clique/friends, with a few (like Dvandom Force) as professionals. I
> can't really think of any that fit the family dynamic.
I'd say the core cast of Limp-Asparagus Lad does, to some extent.
> Most subgroups seem to fit the mold of team as
> clique/friends, with a few (like Dvandom Force) as professionals. I
> can't really think of any that fit the family dynamic.
> I think the LNH, like the Legion of
> Super-Heroes itself, fits a different paradigm: the superhero team as
> a fandom. A large group of like-minded people who join together in a
> loosely organized group for a common interest, which forms all kinds
> of complicated and contradictory social dynamics.
> That's why fandom
> responded so strongly to the LSH, why it was so beloved of hardcore
> comics fans as opposed to casual readers, and why people in the early
> days of RAC gravitated toward it for their alter egos. (That and the
> potential for wonderfully ridiculous names.)
Andrew "NO .SIG MAN" "Juan" Perron, organic evolution!
Andrew Perron
May 3, 2012, 2:24:52 AM5/3/12
to
On Wed, 2 May 2012 21:23:23 +0000 (UTC), EDMLite wrote:
> I think the LNH falls into its own category:
> team as multinational corporation.
> (Or, if you prefer, team as very large
> non-profit organization).
>
> All of the members of the LNH subscribe
> to its acting principles, and participate in
> its brand. But (with the possible exceptions
> of Master Roster Man and perhaps Anal-
> Retentive Archive Kid), they don't all know
> one another, any more than all of the
> co-workers at a large company do.
Hmmmmm. This makes sense too - and I'd definitely put them more in the
> I think the LNH falls into its own category:
> team as multinational corporation.
> (Or, if you prefer, team as very large
> non-profit organization).
>
> All of the members of the LNH subscribe
> to its acting principles, and participate in
> its brand. But (with the possible exceptions
> of Master Roster Man and perhaps Anal-
> Retentive Archive Kid), they don't all know
> one another, any more than all of the
> co-workers at a large company do.
"non-profit" category - but they don't really act like a *company* with a
*product*.
> And there are definite hierarchies within
> the company -- senior staff, who make
> decisions; average workers, who carry
> out assignments; and low-level
> functionaries, who man the reception
> desk and process paperwork...
has more structure than most, and LNH20 has more still.
> It's a framework that allows for a lot of
> interaction, even if it doesn't generate the
> natural conflicts that a family or
> friend dynamic might...
different subgroups.
> --Easily-Discovered Man Lite
> --Basically collects a paycheck
> for wandering from room to room
Saxon Brenton
May 3, 2012, 12:29:24 PM5/3/12
to
Andrew replied to Adrian:
>> Most subgroups seem to fit the mold of team as
>> clique/friends, with a few (like Dvandom Force) as professionals. I
>> can't really think of any that fit the family dynamic.
>
> I'd say the core cast of Limp-Asparagus Lad does, to some extent.
Mmm. I was just thinking that myself - but have been a bit rushed
out at work today to reply.
Anyway, that will probably get a little bit stronger once I have time
to have Senses Lass sit down and interact with the others while off-
duty. I have a scene in mind where she's been worrying about this whole
'soul' business considering that she's a construct - a concern which
Retcon Lad has no doubts about. He points out that back in the
'kidnapped to Hell' story in _Load Island Renegades_ it was demonstrated
that machines who are treated as people get souls, whereas conversely in
the 'visit to the dream realms' arc of Dvandom Force its hinted that
people who reject that love loose their souls. Therefore, Senses Lass
is a loved family member, therefore she has a soul, QED.
Then he extroplates that a little too far, and Fourth Wall Lass gets mad
at him and starts throwing stuff.
---
Saxon Brenton
'In fact in a superhero universe, teenagers may be even stupider. After
all, the brief moment in the real world where the thought "this may kill
me" forces it's way into their head would be followed by "this may give
me super powers" in a superhero universe.' - jlbarnett Scans_Daily Nov 2010
out at work today to reply.
Anyway, that will probably get a little bit stronger once I have time
to have Senses Lass sit down and interact with the others while off-
duty. I have a scene in mind where she's been worrying about this whole
'soul' business considering that she's a construct - a concern which
Retcon Lad has no doubts about. He points out that back in the
'kidnapped to Hell' story in _Load Island Renegades_ it was demonstrated
that machines who are treated as people get souls, whereas conversely in
the 'visit to the dream realms' arc of Dvandom Force its hinted that
people who reject that love loose their souls. Therefore, Senses Lass
is a loved family member, therefore she has a soul, QED.
Then he extroplates that a little too far, and Fourth Wall Lass gets mad
at him and starts throwing stuff.
---
Saxon Brenton
'In fact in a superhero universe, teenagers may be even stupider. After
all, the brief moment in the real world where the thought "this may kill
me" forces it's way into their head would be followed by "this may give
me super powers" in a superhero universe.' - jlbarnett Scans_Daily Nov 2010
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