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Lalo Martins
Dec 2, 2011, 4:56:49 AM12/2/11
to
So we've been discussing whether or not the Net.astic Nine was the
premier group of the 60s, and what else was around back then. Here's my
proposal, in a timeline format. I didn't stop the timeline at the silver
age, because I wanted to also explore how it influences the later history
that we had already discussed.
1950s: After the Golden Age fizzles off, some heroes continue, and new
ones sporadically appear.
1958: The US government begins using powered agents, both for military
and intelligence/counter-espionage purposes, but always individually and
answering to the normal military or intelligence hierarchies.
1959: The first proper computer network is demonstrated. Inspired by the
concept, the premier heroes of the US East Coast, West Coast, Great
Britain, France, and Japan get together for mutual support, creating the
second-ever supergroup, The Network. Soon a few more heroes join.
The Network deals primarily with:
- Monsters
- Mad scientists
- Organized crime
- Supernatural and extradimensional threats
- Global pan-terrorist organizations, mainly WHATEVER
1962: The Network investigates stories about a town that seems to
occasionally pop up in various places in the US. They find the town, and
its resident hero, Google.mesh, locked in a ages-spanning battle with the
tyrant ApocaLISP. The (somewhat jaded) residents call it only The Village.
The Network puts a lot of effort into giving the town an
infrastructure that would allow it to be a nearly-normal part of the
world, including a wireless connection to the telephone system that would
later be the inspiration for cell phones. In the end, they spent so much
time there, that they decide to just stay and make the place their
primary base of operations (they didn't have one before this, meeting on
individual members' secret lairs). The town votes to rename itself
Net.town in their honor.
1963: Four members of the Network decide to retire from public-eye
heroing, and instead focus on their work as explorers of the
extraordinary. They join with an unrelated group of four explorers. In
the team's very first adventure, an unrelated bystander gains powers and
joins the group, which will become known as the Net.astic Nine.
1964: The Network is so popular, that by this time powered individuals
are generally known as net.heroes and net.villains, or net.men in
general. (In the 70s, feminism would replace net.men with net.human. In
the present, a growing movement wants to replace even that with
net.persons, Tori being one of their poster children.)
1968: Net.town “promoted” to Net.city, since the Network's presence and
its slightly-above-average technology has making it grow like crazy.
1969: America is divided into a hippie-friendly, anti-war side, and a
strongly nationalistic, pro-war, anti-communist side. The Network isn't
very popular with either; the former public appreciates their heroism and
their global character, but takes issue with their readiness for
violence. The latter public clamors for an American net.hero team. Their
clamors are answered: a new team called Y.O.N.D.E.R. (Young Organized
Net.hero Defense and Emergency Response) makes its debut, pitching itself
as a new-generation, all-American team for modern times (= Bronze Age).
Secretly, Y.O.N.D.E.R. is a joint initiative of the military,
intelligence, FBI, and a few key private interests; most of its members
are either pre-existing, usually experienced military/intelligence
net.agents, or manufactured specifically for the group.
That's not to say the group doesn't succeed, or even that it's
automatically conservative. Y.O.N.D.E.R. maintains an excellent record
throughout the 70s, and their popularity rivals The Network's in the US.
1979: Demand for net.heroes seems to be low. Many pro-active independent
net.heroes keep the need down. The Network is still going strong, but
most founding members (except for a few immortals) are dead or retired.
1980: Net.city renamed Net.ropolis.
1985: The Network finally disbands, on the same meeting that Kid
Enthusiastic had gone to planning to apply to join the team. (The
attentive reader will spot that this takes Crisis on Infinite Earths as
the landmark for the end of the bronze age.)
1989: With the fall of the Berlin Wall and the end of the cold war, very
few still care for Y.O.N.D.E.R. The team is dissolved, with much of its
infrastructure repurposed into P.A.N.I.C.
1992: Net.humans, mostly ones that choose not to use their powers as
heroes or villains, begin dying mysteriously around the world, but most
noticeably in Net.ropolis. A disparate group of net.heroes and maybe one
or two until-then-villains join together to investigate, and decide to
remain a group, as the Saviors of the Net.
2002: The Killfile.
2002: Net.ropolis becomes Netropolis.
2007: End of the Killfile.
2007: Formation of the LNH.
premier group of the 60s, and what else was around back then. Here's my
proposal, in a timeline format. I didn't stop the timeline at the silver
age, because I wanted to also explore how it influences the later history
that we had already discussed.
1950s: After the Golden Age fizzles off, some heroes continue, and new
ones sporadically appear.
1958: The US government begins using powered agents, both for military
and intelligence/counter-espionage purposes, but always individually and
answering to the normal military or intelligence hierarchies.
1959: The first proper computer network is demonstrated. Inspired by the
concept, the premier heroes of the US East Coast, West Coast, Great
Britain, France, and Japan get together for mutual support, creating the
second-ever supergroup, The Network. Soon a few more heroes join.
The Network deals primarily with:
- Monsters
- Mad scientists
- Organized crime
- Supernatural and extradimensional threats
- Global pan-terrorist organizations, mainly WHATEVER
1962: The Network investigates stories about a town that seems to
occasionally pop up in various places in the US. They find the town, and
its resident hero, Google.mesh, locked in a ages-spanning battle with the
tyrant ApocaLISP. The (somewhat jaded) residents call it only The Village.
The Network puts a lot of effort into giving the town an
infrastructure that would allow it to be a nearly-normal part of the
world, including a wireless connection to the telephone system that would
later be the inspiration for cell phones. In the end, they spent so much
time there, that they decide to just stay and make the place their
primary base of operations (they didn't have one before this, meeting on
individual members' secret lairs). The town votes to rename itself
Net.town in their honor.
1963: Four members of the Network decide to retire from public-eye
heroing, and instead focus on their work as explorers of the
extraordinary. They join with an unrelated group of four explorers. In
the team's very first adventure, an unrelated bystander gains powers and
joins the group, which will become known as the Net.astic Nine.
1964: The Network is so popular, that by this time powered individuals
are generally known as net.heroes and net.villains, or net.men in
general. (In the 70s, feminism would replace net.men with net.human. In
the present, a growing movement wants to replace even that with
net.persons, Tori being one of their poster children.)
1968: Net.town “promoted” to Net.city, since the Network's presence and
its slightly-above-average technology has making it grow like crazy.
1969: America is divided into a hippie-friendly, anti-war side, and a
strongly nationalistic, pro-war, anti-communist side. The Network isn't
very popular with either; the former public appreciates their heroism and
their global character, but takes issue with their readiness for
violence. The latter public clamors for an American net.hero team. Their
clamors are answered: a new team called Y.O.N.D.E.R. (Young Organized
Net.hero Defense and Emergency Response) makes its debut, pitching itself
as a new-generation, all-American team for modern times (= Bronze Age).
Secretly, Y.O.N.D.E.R. is a joint initiative of the military,
intelligence, FBI, and a few key private interests; most of its members
are either pre-existing, usually experienced military/intelligence
net.agents, or manufactured specifically for the group.
That's not to say the group doesn't succeed, or even that it's
automatically conservative. Y.O.N.D.E.R. maintains an excellent record
throughout the 70s, and their popularity rivals The Network's in the US.
1979: Demand for net.heroes seems to be low. Many pro-active independent
net.heroes keep the need down. The Network is still going strong, but
most founding members (except for a few immortals) are dead or retired.
1980: Net.city renamed Net.ropolis.
1985: The Network finally disbands, on the same meeting that Kid
Enthusiastic had gone to planning to apply to join the team. (The
attentive reader will spot that this takes Crisis on Infinite Earths as
the landmark for the end of the bronze age.)
1989: With the fall of the Berlin Wall and the end of the cold war, very
few still care for Y.O.N.D.E.R. The team is dissolved, with much of its
infrastructure repurposed into P.A.N.I.C.
1992: Net.humans, mostly ones that choose not to use their powers as
heroes or villains, begin dying mysteriously around the world, but most
noticeably in Net.ropolis. A disparate group of net.heroes and maybe one
or two until-then-villains join together to investigate, and decide to
remain a group, as the Saviors of the Net.
2002: The Killfile.
2002: Net.ropolis becomes Netropolis.
2007: End of the Killfile.
2007: Formation of the LNH.
Andrew Perron
Dec 2, 2011, 1:45:27 PM12/2/11
to
On Dec 2, 4:56 am, Lalo Martins <lalo.mart...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 1959: The first proper computer network is demonstrated. Inspired by the
> concept, the premier heroes of the US East Coast, West Coast, Great
> Britain, France, and Japan get together for mutual support, creating the
> second-ever supergroup, The Network. Soon a few more heroes join.
Interesting! Both the "inspired by science" and "model UN" aspects of
> 1959: The first proper computer network is demonstrated. Inspired by the
> concept, the premier heroes of the US East Coast, West Coast, Great
> Britain, France, and Japan get together for mutual support, creating the
> second-ever supergroup, The Network. Soon a few more heroes join.
it are very suited to the time period.
(As a side note, in another universe I'm (ever so slowly) creating,
the main good-guy-team is also called the Network. I find this
appropriate, rather than redundant.)
> The Network deals primarily with:
> - Monsters
> - Mad scientists
> - Organized crime
> - Supernatural and extradimensional threats
> - Global pan-terrorist organizations, mainly WHATEVER
> 1962: The Network investigates stories about a town that seems to
> occasionally pop up in various places in the US. They find the town, and
> its resident hero, Google.mesh, locked in a ages-spanning battle with the
> tyrant ApocaLISP. The (somewhat jaded) residents call it only The Village.
> The Network puts a lot of effort into giving the town an
> infrastructure that would allow it to be a nearly-normal part of the
> world, including a wireless connection to the telephone system that would
> later be the inspiration for cell phones.
but this is better.
> In the end, they spent so much
> time there, that they decide to just stay and make the place their
> primary base of operations (they didn't have one before this, meeting on
> individual members' secret lairs). The town votes to rename itself
> Net.town in their honor.
later be undone, but the citizens would remember, so it wouldn't be
uncommon in the modern day to see people refer to the same place as
Houston, Housto.net, and, say, Bayou City.
> 1963: Four members of the Network decide to retire from public-eye
> heroing, and instead focus on their work as explorers of the
> extraordinary. They join with an unrelated group of four explorers. In
> the team's very first adventure, an unrelated bystander gains powers and
> joins the group, which will become known as the Net.astic Nine.
> 1964: The Network is so popular, that by this time powered individuals
> are generally known as net.heroes and net.villains, or net.men in
> general. (In the 70s, feminism would replace net.men with net.human. In
> the present, a growing movement wants to replace even that with
> net.persons, Tori being one of their poster children.)
powers", including villains and those not active in adventuring,
rather than "superhero". I could see some pundit calling them "New
Humans", and the term getting conflated with net.men (which itself
would later become net.hero).
> 1969: America is divided into a hippie-friendly, anti-war side, and a
> strongly nationalistic, pro-war, anti-communist side.
roommates divide an apartment straight down the middle. The hippies
get the side with the bathroom, which is just a lead-in to a joke
about not showering. Ratings plummet.
> Secretly, Y.O.N.D.E.R. is a joint initiative of the military,
> intelligence, FBI, and a few key private interests; most of its members
> are either pre-existing, usually experienced military/intelligence
> net.agents, or manufactured specifically for the group.
military, that the military thinks they're in control of it, that the
CIA and the FBI both think *they're* in control of it, and that the
private interests are in it deeper than anyone suspects, possibly
including themselves. The members would be split evenly between those
who are military but don't know any of the other secrets, those who
are in the employ of some other interest, and those who signed up
thinking the public facade was the truth.
Ironically, one of the private interests is the organization of a
retired net.hero, whose goal is to push society towards more ethical
and less corrupt behavior. The second-in-command of the team is the
only member who knows this organization even exists.
> 1985: The Network finally disbands, on the same meeting that Kid
> Enthusiastic had gone to planning to apply to join the team.
> (The
> attentive reader will spot that this takes Crisis on Infinite Earths as
> the landmark for the end of the bronze age.)
> 1992: Net.humans, mostly ones that choose not to use their powers as
> heroes or villains, begin dying mysteriously around the world, but most
> noticeably in Net.ropolis. A disparate group of net.heroes and maybe one
> or two until-then-villains join together to investigate, and decide to
> remain a group, as the Saviors of the Net.
> 2002: The Killfile.
I think I would've put this a bit earlier, both to give the world more
time to adapt to it as the status quo and to reflect the beginning of
the Modern Age (whose beginning is disputed, but whose latest possible
beginning date has gotta be October 2000, with UItimate Spider-Man
#1).
> 2002: Net.ropolis becomes Netropolis.
>
> 2007: End of the Killfile.
>
> 2007: Formation of the LNH.
constructing a past before the stories are even posted.
Adrian James McClure
Dec 2, 2011, 2:04:57 PM12/2/11
to
This is pretty neat. I do like Dvandom's history of Netropolis from
Acton Lord #0 too, though.
On Dec 2, 1:45 pm, Andrew Perron <pwer...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 2, 4:56 am, Lalo Martins <lalo.mart...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 1962: The Network investigates stories about a town that seems to
> > occasionally pop up in various places in the US. They find the town, and
> > its resident hero, Google.mesh, locked in a ages-spanning battle with the
> > tyrant ApocaLISP. The (somewhat jaded) residents call it only The Village.
>
The Four Horseman of the ApocaLISP: Flamewar (effectively the LNH20
version of OMAR), Virus (the LNH20 version of Melissa), Lag (not
officially a new version of Lagneto), and Spam (a gigantic Validus-
like being made out of actual spam).
> I think I would've put this a bit earlier, both to give the world more
> time to adapt to it as the status quo and to reflect the beginning of
> the Modern Age (whose beginning is disputed, but whose latest possible
> beginning date has gotta be October 2000, with UItimate Spider-Man
> #1).
Could be as early as 1998, the year that saw WildCATS/Aliens (where
the original Stormwatch died and its remnant formed the Authority),
the first issue of Planetary, and the first issue of Saviors of the
Net.
Acton Lord #0 too, though.
On Dec 2, 1:45 pm, Andrew Perron <pwer...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 2, 4:56 am, Lalo Martins <lalo.mart...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 1962: The Network investigates stories about a town that seems to
> > occasionally pop up in various places in the US. They find the town, and
> > its resident hero, Google.mesh, locked in a ages-spanning battle with the
> > tyrant ApocaLISP. The (somewhat jaded) residents call it only The Village.
>
version of OMAR), Virus (the LNH20 version of Melissa), Lag (not
officially a new version of Lagneto), and Spam (a gigantic Validus-
like being made out of actual spam).
> I think I would've put this a bit earlier, both to give the world more
> time to adapt to it as the status quo and to reflect the beginning of
> the Modern Age (whose beginning is disputed, but whose latest possible
> beginning date has gotta be October 2000, with UItimate Spider-Man
> #1).
the original Stormwatch died and its remnant formed the Authority),
the first issue of Planetary, and the first issue of Saviors of the
Net.
Dave Van Domelen
Dec 2, 2011, 2:07:13 PM12/2/11
to
In article <12a27e98-6b22-4951...@f35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
public as part of a defense against the Y2K Bug; two, it's when Dvandom Force
ended. So, if Sig.Lad's team is seen as the echo of the "old LNH", then the
time when I stopped actively writing LNH stories would be a good point to end
that era in LNH20.
Dave Van Domelen, spending his final lecture in one of his courses this
semester on aeschatology.
Andrew Perron <pwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2002: The Killfile.
>
>I think I would've put this a bit earlier, both to give the world more
>time to adapt to it as the status quo and to reflect the beginning of
>the Modern Age (whose beginning is disputed, but whose latest possible
>beginning date has gotta be October 2000, with UItimate Spider-Man
>#1).
I suggest late 1999. Two reasons: one, it can also be sold to the
>> 2002: The Killfile.
>
>I think I would've put this a bit earlier, both to give the world more
>time to adapt to it as the status quo and to reflect the beginning of
>the Modern Age (whose beginning is disputed, but whose latest possible
>beginning date has gotta be October 2000, with UItimate Spider-Man
>#1).
public as part of a defense against the Y2K Bug; two, it's when Dvandom Force
ended. So, if Sig.Lad's team is seen as the echo of the "old LNH", then the
time when I stopped actively writing LNH stories would be a good point to end
that era in LNH20.
Dave Van Domelen, spending his final lecture in one of his courses this
semester on aeschatology.
Lalo Martins
Dec 2, 2011, 2:29:55 PM12/2/11
to
quoth Andrew Perron as of Fri, 02 Dec 2011 18:45:27 +0000:
(later net.human, net.person) means anyone with powers, whether hero,
villain, in-between, or not adventuring at all.
>> Secretly, Y.O.N.D.E.R. is a joint initiative of the military,
>> intelligence, FBI, and a few key private interests; most of its members
>> are either pre-existing, usually experienced military/intelligence
>> net.agents, or manufactured specifically for the group.
>
> I'd say that it's publically associated with but independent from the
> military, that the military thinks they're in control of it, that the
> CIA and the FBI both think *they're* in control of it, and that the
> private interests are in it deeper than anyone suspects, possibly
> including themselves. The members would be split evenly between those
> who are military but don't know any of the other secrets, those who are
> in the employ of some other interest, and those who signed up thinking
> the public facade was the truth.
>
> Ironically, one of the private interests is the organization of a
> retired net.hero, whose goal is to push society towards more ethical and
> less corrupt behavior. The second-in-command of the team is the only
> member who knows this organization even exists.
That works better. Also, if it's a Bronze Age thing, it should probably
be tailored to speak more to Bronze Age values, including social
relevance and whatnot. No idea how :-P
>> 2002: The Killfile.
>
> I think I would've put this a bit earlier, both to give the world more
> time to adapt to it as the status quo and to reflect the beginning of
> the Modern Age (whose beginning is disputed, but whose latest possible
> beginning date has gotta be October 2000, with UItimate Spider-Man #1).
That's funny. I also wanted it to be earlier/longer, but I thought
somebody at some point had said it lasted 5 years. Maybe I'm wrong. Yeah,
I'm fine with 1999.
>> 2002: Net.ropolis becomes Netropolis.
This is meant to be “shortly after the Killfile”, so if we move the
Killfile back, we move this too. Then 1999 would be even more
appropriate, because of the .com burst; I can imagine a city wouldn't
want to be too closely associated with the .com phenomenon by then.
-- Lalo “in the net.hero bubble” Martins
> On Dec 2, 4:56 am, Lalo Martins <lalo.mart...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 1964: The Network is so popular, that by this time powered individuals
>> are generally known as net.heroes and net.villains, or net.men in
>> general. (In the 70s, feminism would replace net.men with net.human. In
>> the present, a growing movement wants to replace even that with
>> net.persons, Tori being one of their poster children.)
>
> Honestly, I see "net.human" as more of an indicator of "human with
> powers", including villains and those not active in adventuring, rather
> than "superhero". I could see some pundit calling them "New Humans",
> and the term getting conflated with net.men (which itself would later
> become net.hero).
Sorry, that was poor writing of my part. I did mean exactly that; net.men
>
>> 1964: The Network is so popular, that by this time powered individuals
>> are generally known as net.heroes and net.villains, or net.men in
>> general. (In the 70s, feminism would replace net.men with net.human. In
>> the present, a growing movement wants to replace even that with
>> net.persons, Tori being one of their poster children.)
>
> Honestly, I see "net.human" as more of an indicator of "human with
> powers", including villains and those not active in adventuring, rather
> than "superhero". I could see some pundit calling them "New Humans",
> and the term getting conflated with net.men (which itself would later
> become net.hero).
(later net.human, net.person) means anyone with powers, whether hero,
villain, in-between, or not adventuring at all.
>> Secretly, Y.O.N.D.E.R. is a joint initiative of the military,
>> intelligence, FBI, and a few key private interests; most of its members
>> are either pre-existing, usually experienced military/intelligence
>> net.agents, or manufactured specifically for the group.
>
> I'd say that it's publically associated with but independent from the
> military, that the military thinks they're in control of it, that the
> CIA and the FBI both think *they're* in control of it, and that the
> private interests are in it deeper than anyone suspects, possibly
> including themselves. The members would be split evenly between those
> who are military but don't know any of the other secrets, those who are
> in the employ of some other interest, and those who signed up thinking
> the public facade was the truth.
>
> Ironically, one of the private interests is the organization of a
> retired net.hero, whose goal is to push society towards more ethical and
> less corrupt behavior. The second-in-command of the team is the only
> member who knows this organization even exists.
be tailored to speak more to Bronze Age values, including social
relevance and whatnot. No idea how :-P
>> 2002: The Killfile.
>
> I think I would've put this a bit earlier, both to give the world more
> time to adapt to it as the status quo and to reflect the beginning of
> the Modern Age (whose beginning is disputed, but whose latest possible
> beginning date has gotta be October 2000, with UItimate Spider-Man #1).
somebody at some point had said it lasted 5 years. Maybe I'm wrong. Yeah,
I'm fine with 1999.
>> 2002: Net.ropolis becomes Netropolis.
This is meant to be “shortly after the Killfile”, so if we move the
Killfile back, we move this too. Then 1999 would be even more
appropriate, because of the .com burst; I can imagine a city wouldn't
want to be too closely associated with the .com phenomenon by then.
-- Lalo “in the net.hero bubble” Martins
Lalo Martins
Dec 2, 2011, 3:25:17 PM12/2/11
to
quoth Lalo Martins as of Fri, 02 Dec 2011 19:29:55 +0000:
to go here is to put the Killfile in late 99, and the loss of the dot in
mid 2000.
-- Lalo.Martins
>>> 2002: The Killfile.
>>
>> I think I would've put this a bit earlier, both to give the world more
>> time to adapt to it as the status quo and to reflect the beginning of
>> the Modern Age (whose beginning is disputed, but whose latest possible
>> beginning date has gotta be October 2000, with UItimate Spider-Man #1).
>
> That's funny. I also wanted it to be earlier/longer, but I thought
> somebody at some point had said it lasted 5 years. Maybe I'm wrong.
> Yeah, I'm fine with 1999.
>
>>> 2002: Net.ropolis becomes Netropolis.
>
> This is meant to be “shortly after the Killfile”, so if we move the
> Killfile back, we move this too. Then 1999 would be even more
> appropriate, because of the .com burst; I can imagine a city wouldn't
> want to be too closely associated with the .com phenomenon by then.
>
> -- Lalo “in the net.hero bubble” Martins
Although actually the bubble burst was in March 2000. Maybe the best way
>>
>> I think I would've put this a bit earlier, both to give the world more
>> time to adapt to it as the status quo and to reflect the beginning of
>> the Modern Age (whose beginning is disputed, but whose latest possible
>> beginning date has gotta be October 2000, with UItimate Spider-Man #1).
>
> That's funny. I also wanted it to be earlier/longer, but I thought
> somebody at some point had said it lasted 5 years. Maybe I'm wrong.
> Yeah, I'm fine with 1999.
>
>>> 2002: Net.ropolis becomes Netropolis.
>
> This is meant to be “shortly after the Killfile”, so if we move the
> Killfile back, we move this too. Then 1999 would be even more
> appropriate, because of the .com burst; I can imagine a city wouldn't
> want to be too closely associated with the .com phenomenon by then.
>
> -- Lalo “in the net.hero bubble” Martins
to go here is to put the Killfile in late 99, and the loss of the dot in
mid 2000.
-- Lalo.Martins
Lalo Martins
Dec 2, 2011, 3:47:51 PM12/2/11
to
quoth Andrew Perron as of Fri, 02 Dec 2011 18:45:27 +0000:
adventure comics in the silver age period. At least the ones that had
wide influence later... the logic being that, in a League of
Extraordinary Gentlemen way, those comics are mainly set in the country
in which they were written, and if our world is a patchwork of shadows,
pastiches, and echoes of all those, then these are the countries that
would see the most net.men popping up.
-- Lalo “metalinguistic” Martins
> On Dec 2, 4:56 am, Lalo Martins <lalo.mart...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 1959: The first proper computer network is demonstrated. Inspired by
>> the concept, the premier heroes of the US East Coast, West Coast, Great
>> Britain, France, and Japan get together for mutual support, creating
>> the second-ever supergroup, The Network. Soon a few more heroes join.
>
> Interesting! Both the "inspired by science" and "model UN" aspects of
> it are very suited to the time period.
Also, my choice of countries is based on who was doing superhero/sci-fi/
>
>> 1959: The first proper computer network is demonstrated. Inspired by
>> the concept, the premier heroes of the US East Coast, West Coast, Great
>> Britain, France, and Japan get together for mutual support, creating
>> the second-ever supergroup, The Network. Soon a few more heroes join.
>
> Interesting! Both the "inspired by science" and "model UN" aspects of
> it are very suited to the time period.
adventure comics in the silver age period. At least the ones that had
wide influence later... the logic being that, in a League of
Extraordinary Gentlemen way, those comics are mainly set in the country
in which they were written, and if our world is a patchwork of shadows,
pastiches, and echoes of all those, then these are the countries that
would see the most net.men popping up.
-- Lalo “metalinguistic” Martins
Andrew Perron
Dec 3, 2011, 12:13:19 PM12/3/11
to
On Fri, 2 Dec 2011 19:04:57 +0000 (UTC), Adrian James McClure wrote:
> This is pretty neat. I do like Dvandom's history of Netropolis from
> Acton Lord #0 too, though.
Well, you can easily slide parts of that in, I think.
> This is pretty neat. I do like Dvandom's history of Netropolis from
> Acton Lord #0 too, though.
> On Dec 2, 1:45 pm, Andrew Perron <pwer...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Dec 2, 4:56 am, Lalo Martins <lalo.mart...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> 1962: The Network investigates stories about a town that seems to
>>> occasionally pop up in various places in the US. They find the town, and
>>> its resident hero, Google.mesh, locked in a ages-spanning battle with the
>>> tyrant ApocaLISP. The (somewhat jaded) residents call it only The Village.
>
> The Four Horseman of the ApocaLISP: Flamewar (effectively the LNH20
> version of OMAR), Virus (the LNH20 version of Melissa), Lag (not
> officially a new version of Lagneto), and Spam (a gigantic Validus-
> like being made out of actual spam).
supposed to be like War, Death, Famile, and Pestilence, but without the
resonance of that quartet, it doesn't quite work.) I'd go... Flamewar,
Vector, L2, and... hmmm. Something.
>> I think I would've put this a bit earlier, both to give the world more
>> time to adapt to it as the status quo and to reflect the beginning of
>> the Modern Age (whose beginning is disputed, but whose latest possible
>> beginning date has gotta be October 2000, with UItimate Spider-Man
>> #1).
>
> Could be as early as 1998, the year that saw WildCATS/Aliens (where
> the original Stormwatch died and its remnant formed the Authority),
> the first issue of Planetary, and the first issue of Saviors of the
> Net.
Andrew "NO .SIG MAN" "Juan" Perron, sees that as the end of the Dark Age.
Andrew Perron
Dec 3, 2011, 12:13:21 PM12/3/11
to
On Fri, 2 Dec 2011 19:07:13 +0000 (UTC), Dave Van Domelen wrote:
> In article <12a27e98-6b22-4951...@f35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> Andrew Perron <pwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 2002: The Killfile.
>>
>>I think I would've put this a bit earlier, both to give the world more
>>time to adapt to it as the status quo and to reflect the beginning of
>>the Modern Age (whose beginning is disputed, but whose latest possible
>>beginning date has gotta be October 2000, with UItimate Spider-Man
>>#1).
>
> I suggest late 1999. Two reasons: one, it can also be sold to the
> public as part of a defense against the Y2K Bug; two, it's when Dvandom Force
> ended. So, if Sig.Lad's team is seen as the echo of the "old LNH", then the
> time when I stopped actively writing LNH stories would be a good point to end
> that era in LNH20.
Both very good reasons.
> In article <12a27e98-6b22-4951...@f35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
> Andrew Perron <pwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 2002: The Killfile.
>>
>>I think I would've put this a bit earlier, both to give the world more
>>time to adapt to it as the status quo and to reflect the beginning of
>>the Modern Age (whose beginning is disputed, but whose latest possible
>>beginning date has gotta be October 2000, with UItimate Spider-Man
>>#1).
>
> I suggest late 1999. Two reasons: one, it can also be sold to the
> public as part of a defense against the Y2K Bug; two, it's when Dvandom Force
> ended. So, if Sig.Lad's team is seen as the echo of the "old LNH", then the
> time when I stopped actively writing LNH stories would be a good point to end
> that era in LNH20.
> Dave Van Domelen, spending his final lecture in one of his courses this
> semester on aeschatology.
Andrew Perron
Dec 3, 2011, 12:41:19 PM12/3/11
to
On Fri, 2 Dec 2011 19:29:55 +0000 (UTC), Lalo Martins wrote:
> quoth Andrew Perron as of Fri, 02 Dec 2011 18:45:27 +0000:
<snip>
> quoth Andrew Perron as of Fri, 02 Dec 2011 18:45:27 +0000:
>> Honestly, I see "net.human" as more of an indicator of "human with
>> powers", including villains and those not active in adventuring, rather
>> than "superhero". I could see some pundit calling them "New Humans",
>> and the term getting conflated with net.men (which itself would later
>> become net.hero).
>
> Sorry, that was poor writing of my part. I did mean exactly that; net.men
> (later net.human, net.person) means anyone with powers, whether hero,
> villain, in-between, or not adventuring at all.
Ahhhhhh; well, then, very good.
>> powers", including villains and those not active in adventuring, rather
>> than "superhero". I could see some pundit calling them "New Humans",
>> and the term getting conflated with net.men (which itself would later
>> become net.hero).
>
> Sorry, that was poor writing of my part. I did mean exactly that; net.men
> (later net.human, net.person) means anyone with powers, whether hero,
> villain, in-between, or not adventuring at all.
> Also, if it's a Bronze Age thing, it should probably
> be tailored to speak more to Bronze Age values, including social
> relevance and whatnot. No idea how :-P
who's a former gang member and an East Asian martial artist? Oh, and
Vietnam vets. So many Vietnam vets.
>>> 2002: The Killfile.
>>
>> I think I would've put this a bit earlier, both to give the world more
>> time to adapt to it as the status quo and to reflect the beginning of
>> the Modern Age (whose beginning is disputed, but whose latest possible
>> beginning date has gotta be October 2000, with UItimate Spider-Man #1).
>
> That's funny. I also wanted it to be earlier/longer, but I thought
> somebody at some point had said it lasted 5 years. Maybe I'm wrong. Yeah,
> I'm fine with 1999.
>>> 2002: Net.ropolis becomes Netropolis.
>
> This is meant to be “shortly after the Killfile”, so if we move the
> Killfile back, we move this too. Then 1999 would be even more
> appropriate, because of the .com burst; I can imagine a city wouldn't
> want to be too closely associated with the .com phenomenon by then.
> Although actually the bubble burst was in March 2000. Maybe the best way
> to go here is to put the Killfile in late 99, and the loss of the dot in
> mid 2000.
>> Interesting! Both the "inspired by science" and "model UN" aspects of
>> it are very suited to the time period.
>
> Also, my choice of countries is based on who was doing superhero/sci-fi/
> adventure comics in the silver age period. At least the ones that had
> wide influence later... the logic being that, in a League of
> Extraordinary Gentlemen way, those comics are mainly set in the country
> in which they were written, and if our world is a patchwork of shadows,
> pastiches, and echoes of all those, then these are the countries that
> would see the most net.men popping up.
Ahhhhh, yes, that does make sense.
> adventure comics in the silver age period. At least the ones that had
> wide influence later... the logic being that, in a League of
> Extraordinary Gentlemen way, those comics are mainly set in the country
> in which they were written, and if our world is a patchwork of shadows,
> pastiches, and echoes of all those, then these are the countries that
> would see the most net.men popping up.
Andrew "NO .SIG MAN" "Juan" Perron, plus, it means we can do the most
homages.
Dave Van Domelen
Dec 3, 2011, 3:17:17 PM12/3/11
to
In article <74r9dopr2nzm.1bih2dgdy931j$.d...@40tude.net>,
Pestilence = Virus (also obvious)
Famine = Lag/Latency (lack of nourishment)
Death = Censorship (Biblical Death was given authority to destroy a
quarter of the Earth)
But that's just their roles, not necessarily their names. Even in the
Bible, the only Horseman explicitly named was Death.
How about Flamewar, Vector, Latency and Cen-Zor the Obliterator?
Dave Van Domelen, lightly snowed in.
Andrew Perron <pwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 2 Dec 2011 19:04:57 +0000 (UTC), Adrian James McClure wrote:
>
>> This is pretty neat. I do like Dvandom's history of Netropolis from
>> Acton Lord #0 too, though.
>
>Well, you can easily slide parts of that in, I think.
>
>> On Dec 2, 1:45 pm, Andrew Perron <pwer...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Dec 2, 4:56 am, Lalo Martins <lalo.mart...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> 1962: The Network investigates stories about a town that seems to
>>>> occasionally pop up in various places in the US. They find the town, and
>>>> its resident hero, Google.mesh, locked in a ages-spanning battle with the
>>>> tyrant ApocaLISP. The (somewhat jaded) residents call it only The Village.
>>
>> The Four Horseman of the ApocaLISP: Flamewar (effectively the LNH20
>> version of OMAR), Virus (the LNH20 version of Melissa), Lag (not
>> officially a new version of Lagneto), and Spam (a gigantic Validus-
>> like being made out of actual spam).
>
>Hmmmm. I like the idea, but the names are bland. (Yeah, I know it's
>supposed to be like War, Death, Famile, and Pestilence, but without the
>resonance of that quartet, it doesn't quite work.) I'd go... Flamewar,
>Vector, L2, and... hmmm. Something.
War = Flamewar (obvious)
>On Fri, 2 Dec 2011 19:04:57 +0000 (UTC), Adrian James McClure wrote:
>
>> This is pretty neat. I do like Dvandom's history of Netropolis from
>> Acton Lord #0 too, though.
>
>Well, you can easily slide parts of that in, I think.
>
>> On Dec 2, 1:45 pm, Andrew Perron <pwer...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Dec 2, 4:56 am, Lalo Martins <lalo.mart...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> 1962: The Network investigates stories about a town that seems to
>>>> occasionally pop up in various places in the US. They find the town, and
>>>> its resident hero, Google.mesh, locked in a ages-spanning battle with the
>>>> tyrant ApocaLISP. The (somewhat jaded) residents call it only The Village.
>>
>> The Four Horseman of the ApocaLISP: Flamewar (effectively the LNH20
>> version of OMAR), Virus (the LNH20 version of Melissa), Lag (not
>> officially a new version of Lagneto), and Spam (a gigantic Validus-
>> like being made out of actual spam).
>
>Hmmmm. I like the idea, but the names are bland. (Yeah, I know it's
>supposed to be like War, Death, Famile, and Pestilence, but without the
>resonance of that quartet, it doesn't quite work.) I'd go... Flamewar,
>Vector, L2, and... hmmm. Something.
Pestilence = Virus (also obvious)
Famine = Lag/Latency (lack of nourishment)
Death = Censorship (Biblical Death was given authority to destroy a
quarter of the Earth)
But that's just their roles, not necessarily their names. Even in the
Bible, the only Horseman explicitly named was Death.
How about Flamewar, Vector, Latency and Cen-Zor the Obliterator?
Dave Van Domelen, lightly snowed in.
Lalo Martins
Dec 3, 2011, 5:04:41 PM12/3/11
to
quoth Dave Van Domelen as of Sat, 03 Dec 2011 20:17:17 +0000:
Yeah, the whole War/Pestilence/Famine thing is apocryphal, if you look at
the passage with critical eyes it's very hard to interpret it that way.
But in this case, the popular story is more important :-)
> How about Flamewar, Vector, Latency and Cen-Zor the Obliterator?
Me likey.
But those would be the modern Horsemen, right? If there were horsemen in
the early 60s, I imagine some might have different names at least. Cen-Zor
can easily be the one that's been around for a while. Lag... I imagine
was just the status quo back then :-P And flamewars hadn't yet discovered
the potential for extra vitriol inherent in not seeing the people you're
discussing with, I guess. The closest would be argument by publication,
especially in reporting and academics.
Or maybe go for a completely different metaphor for the times... keeping
with the information-centric metaphysics but dealing with the concerns of
the period. So the 60s horsemen could be: Cold War (invisible?),
Propaganda, Emptiness (beatnik, the horsemen looks James Dean-ish), and
Cen-Zor (McCarthy Edition).
-- Lalo “writer without a cause” Martins
the passage with critical eyes it's very hard to interpret it that way.
But in this case, the popular story is more important :-)
> How about Flamewar, Vector, Latency and Cen-Zor the Obliterator?
But those would be the modern Horsemen, right? If there were horsemen in
the early 60s, I imagine some might have different names at least. Cen-Zor
can easily be the one that's been around for a while. Lag... I imagine
was just the status quo back then :-P And flamewars hadn't yet discovered
the potential for extra vitriol inherent in not seeing the people you're
discussing with, I guess. The closest would be argument by publication,
especially in reporting and academics.
Or maybe go for a completely different metaphor for the times... keeping
with the information-centric metaphysics but dealing with the concerns of
the period. So the 60s horsemen could be: Cold War (invisible?),
Propaganda, Emptiness (beatnik, the horsemen looks James Dean-ish), and
Cen-Zor (McCarthy Edition).
-- Lalo “writer without a cause” Martins
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