Magic Realism...what is it?
Pat Hawkins Smith
realism" thread for a week, and I still can't figure out what
magic realism is. Will someone please enlighten me.
Thanx,
Psmith
black...@vms.csd.mu.edu
In brief, Magic Realism is fiction in which the magical is treated as
commonplace experiences. That is the fictional gloss is realism but its action
is magical. Latin American novelists have been most prominently associated with
the genre. Even if politically those writers may be quite different. Thus some
of the fiction of Vargas Llosha nad much of Garcia Marquez is Magic Realist.
dts
Steven Blackwood "For everything to be consummated, for me to feel
Access Services less alone, I had only to wish that there be a
Marquette University large crowd of spectators the day of my execution
black...@vms.csd.mu.edu and that they greet me with cries of hate."
Albert Camus "The Stranger"
Janet M. Lafler
This question seems to come up periodically. Perhaps it ought to be in the
faq.
Okay, as I understand it:
"Magic realism" is a term which has been applied mainly to the work of
various Latin American writers, Gabriel Garcia Marquez being the most
obvious example. It describes fiction which takes place in a realistic
setting, but includes fantastic elements which are described in the same
style and tone as the realistic elements of the story. Garcia Marquez
strenuously maintains that he *does not* write fantasy; that is, the
"fantastic" occurances in his writing are metaphorical, even though they
aren't stylistically (or otherwise) marked as metaphor.
The term is being promiscuously applied these days. My personal definition
is that it's fiction in which there's no distinction in the text, implicit
or explicit, between the fantastic and the real. Many people use the term
to refer to any literature set in a realistic setting in which unexplained
magical or fantastic events occur.
/Janet
--
Send mail to: ja...@netcom.com
"To be pretty one really ought to look interested."
Captain Button
As an example, is _Like Water for Chocolate_ magic realism?
--
- Captain Button -- but...@io.com
"They call me Mr. _Pigg_!" - Pumbaa - _The Lion King_
Janet M. Lafler
> As an example, is _Like Water for Chocolate_ magic realism?
I would say that it fits the bill, yes.
Rita Rouvalis
Generally, Magical Realism is described as literature in which realism
and fantasy are juxtaposed, and where the magic is related in a matter-
of-fact manner.
I've always considered this a useless definition because it does nothing
to differentiate magical realism from the fantastic (defined by Todorov
as literature in which the characters in the text hesitate over whether
or not events can be explained by natural means; when this hesitation is
lost or the event is explained as one or the other, the text is no
longer fantastic, but belongs to the realm of either the uncanny or
the marvelous).
Instead, I operate on a definition that states that magical realism
juxtaposes realism and the fantastic, where the plot is dictated by
the laws of realism with seemingly magical events woven into the
narrative for illustrative purposes. In addition, magical realism
is dependant upon the culture in which it is set. You cannot have
any old fantastic event, but an event which is believable within
that culture's mythological framework. For example, both Garcia
Marquez and Allende rely on bloody slaughter and plagues for much
of their fantastic elements. Bloody slaughter is common in South
America (not to be stereotypical, but historically, revolutions in
these countries tend to lead to lots of death). Latin culture is
also heavily Catholic, and plagues are common in the Bible. Now,
I don't think either of these elements would work in American magical
realism because these aren't accepted parts of our culture. I think
perhaps what would work would be tabloid material (Elvis sightings,
aliens, etc.) if done right. Well, perhaps some of the Catholocism
would, but it would be handled differently. I think there would
be more Angels (if TIME magazine is to be trusted) flying around
and things of that sort.
--
Rita Rouvalis
ri...@cc.ysu.edu
"Every poem breaks a silence that had to be overcome" - Adrienne Rich
Ted B Samsel
It would also depend on what part of the US one was from. Being from
a part of the country where milagros happen, (i.e. Christ's visage
showing up on a freshly baked tortilla de harina, screen doors
acquiring the image of Don Pedro Jaramillo, noted curandero of the late
19th-early 20th centuries when the light is right......etc.). And
having been indoctrinated with the "Lost Cause" at an early age (as in
OLDEST CONFEDERATE WIDOW TELLS ALL) I find much of the East Coast
angsty-pangsty literature to be so dry as to be akin to powdered mold.
The more florid the better. And buckle your swash. It could fall down.
--
Ted Samsel ....."driving a Hudson Hornet on the information
superhighway. Now all we need is a JC Whitney
catalog to order leopardskin terrycloth seat
covers."
Ted Samsel
: Ted B Samsel (bh...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu) wrote:
: : It would also depend on what part of the US one was from. Being from
: : a part of the country where milagros happen, (i.e. Christ's visage
: : showing up on a freshly baked tortilla de harina, screen doors
: : acquiring the image of Don Pedro Jaramillo, noted curandero of the late
: : 19th-early 20th centuries when the light is right......etc.). And
: : having been indoctrinated with the "Lost Cause" at an early age (as in
: : OLDEST CONFEDERATE WIDOW TELLS ALL) I find much of the East Coast
: : angsty-pangsty literature to be so dry as to be akin to powdered mold.
: : The more florid the better. And buckle your swash. It could fall down.
: +-------------------------------------SubG---------------------------------+
: Nothing like a couple saint-soaked springs and felicitous Navidads round
: our way to get keep one a-mind that epiphanies are as common below the Bible
: Belt as them there fake nut cans that hide coiled serpents are on
: playgrounds.
Serpents that don't hide get run over......thump...
: Other year over in the rustic suburbs of the sprawling B/CS microplex
: some allowed as they could spy the visage of the Right Holy Virgin
: Her Own Self in the xmas lights in someone's shrub. Sure enough, soon
: as the local news ran the story, folks were wandering in from as far
: away as Snook and Hearne to gather round yon virgin.
Hearne does have an edge on Snook, due to the Brazzis Valley Italians
and the RC Czechs. Snook is Lut'ran, pert near.
: Best light show this side of the neon cross on the steeple on the Lutheran
: church over in Old Dime Box, the Marfa Lights and Bailey's Praire execpted,
: of course.
You be right, hoss. But Houston is really BRIGHT LIGHTS, BIG CITY.
Don't land on Allen. No sir.
: Yours etc.,
: SubGenius
--
Ted Samsel....tejas@infi.net.com/bh...@freenet-in-a.cwru.edu...
Rita Rouvalis
Ted B Samsel <bh...@cleveland.Freenet.Edu> wrote:
>It would also depend on what part of the US one was from. Being from
>a part of the country where milagros happen, (i.e. Christ's visage
>showing up on a freshly baked tortilla de harina, screen doors
>acquiring the image of Don Pedro Jaramillo, noted curandero of the late
>19th-early 20th centuries when the light is right......etc.). And
>having been indoctrinated with the "Lost Cause" at an early age (as in
>OLDEST CONFEDERATE WIDOW TELLS ALL) I find much of the East Coast
>angsty-pangsty literature to be so dry as to be akin to powdered mold.
>The more florid the better. And buckle your swash. It could fall down.
I agree entirely. One of the great deceptions of our age
is the flattening of American culture by malls/franchises.
SubGenius
: It would also depend on what part of the US one was from. Being from
: a part of the country where milagros happen, (i.e. Christ's visage
: showing up on a freshly baked tortilla de harina, screen doors
: acquiring the image of Don Pedro Jaramillo, noted curandero of the late
: 19th-early 20th centuries when the light is right......etc.). And
: having been indoctrinated with the "Lost Cause" at an early age (as in
: OLDEST CONFEDERATE WIDOW TELLS ALL) I find much of the East Coast
: angsty-pangsty literature to be so dry as to be akin to powdered mold.
: The more florid the better. And buckle your swash. It could fall down.
+-------------------------------------SubG---------------------------------+
Nothing like a couple saint-soaked springs and felicitous Navidads round
our way to get keep one a-mind that epiphanies are as common below the Bible
Belt as them there fake nut cans that hide coiled serpents are on
playgrounds.
Other year over in the rustic suburbs of the sprawling B/CS microplex
some allowed as they could spy the visage of the Right Holy Virgin
Her Own Self in the xmas lights in someone's shrub. Sure enough, soon
as the local news ran the story, folks were wandering in from as far
away as Snook and Hearne to gather round yon virgin.
Best light show this side of the neon cross on the steeple on the Lutheran
church over in Old Dime Box, the Marfa Lights and Bailey's Praire execpted,
of course.
Yours etc.,
SubGenius
Sean Scott
: Generally, Magical Realism is described as literature in which realism
: and fantasy are juxtaposed, and where the magic is related in a matter-
: of-fact manner.
: I've always considered this a useless definition because it does nothing
: to differentiate magical realism from the fantastic (defined by Todorov
: as literature in which the characters in the text hesitate over whether
: or not events can be explained by natural means; when this hesitation is
: lost or the event is explained as one or the other, the text is no
: longer fantastic, but belongs to the realm of either the uncanny or
: the marvelous).
But in Todorov, isn't it more important that the reader hesitate? An easy
and common way to do that is to make the characters hesitate.
: Instead, I operate on a definition that states that magical realism
: juxtaposes realism and the fantastic, where the plot is dictated by
: the laws of realism with seemingly magical events woven into the
: narrative for illustrative purposes.
Todorov also says that the fantastic is basically a dead, historic form.
Do you think that this realism-with-fantastic could be a way to keep
progressing past what Todorov says is a thing of the past?
And what about you: do you think the fantastic is a thing of the past?
I wrote a paper recently about Borges as "meta-fantastic," so I'm curious...
__________________________________________________
From the desk of...
Sean Scott
Skulking Critic, Man of Letters
Dept. of Insemantics and Comparative 'Pataphysics, University of Tlon.
->scs...@ucdavis.edu<-
__________________________________________________
Arthur Hlavaty
able to find. This includes, as Rita suggested, work based on the
tabloid mythos. (Sharon N. Farber's "Space Aliens Saved My Marriage," in
ASIMOV'S MAGAZINE and an anthology called *SF Lite*), is a delightful
example. Robert Coover's *The Public Burning* uses many of the myths of the
USA in a way I see as magic realism, although I am even more fond of its
surprisingly sympthetic treatment of its narrator, one Richard M. Nixon.
Bernard Malamud's *The Natural* is a magic realist novel of baseball.
(You remember baseball.) I also would use the term magic realist for
books based on conspiracy mythos, such as *The Manchurian Candidate*,
*The Crying of Lot 49*, and *Illuminatus!*
--
Arthur D. Hlavaty hla...@panix.com
"The Mason's face is ajar."--Firesign Theater
Keith Morgan
It would also depend on what part of the US one was from. Being
from a part of the country where milagros happen, (i.e. Christ's visage
showing up on a freshly baked tortilla de harina, screen doors
acquiring the image of Don Pedro Jaramillo, noted curandero of the late
19th-early 20th centuries when the light is right......etc.). And
having been indoctrinated with the "Lost Cause" at an early age (as in
OLDEST CONFEDERATE WIDOW TELLS ALL) I find much of the East Coast
angsty-pangsty literature to be so dry as to be akin to powdered mold.
The more florid the better. And buckle your swash. It could fall down.
Rita Rouvalis responds:
I agree entirely. One of the great deceptions of our age
is the flattening of American culture by malls/franchises.
I also agree that mall culture has led to a terrible homogenization of the
country, indeed, of much of the world. However, in what sense is this a
"deception"? Or, are you saying the cultural expressions such as Ted's Virgin
Mary in the Xmas lights put the lie to the homogeneous state?
Keith
Rita Rouvalis
Sean Scott <ez04...@bullwinkle.ucdavis.edu> wrote:
>But in Todorov, isn't it more important that the reader hesitate? An easy
>and common way to do that is to make the characters hesitate.
I think it's a toss-up.
>Todorov also says that the fantastic is basically a dead, historic form.
>Do you think that this realism-with-fantastic could be a way to keep
>progressing past what Todorov says is a thing of the past?
I don't think the magical-realists (or authors in general)
give a flying you-know-what what Todorov thinks. I personally don't
think the Fantastic is a dead form at all. Irving's _A Prayer for
Owen Meany_ is a classic example of the New England Fantastic Tradition.
That said, I don't claim to be happy with my definition of magical
realism. I really don't know what differentiates it from Fantastic,
Uncanny, or (whatever the third category was). If you've thought
about it, I'd be interested to hear what you came up with. I'm
not happy with anything I've found in the literature.
>And what about you: do you think the fantastic is a thing of the past?
>
>I wrote a paper recently about Borges as "meta-fantastic," so I'm curious...
Oh, I think a lot of the times he's just a Latin Washington
Irving.
Ted Samsel
: Rita Rouvalis responds:
That was SubGee's *Virgin Mary in the Christmas Lights*. I mentioned
the visage of the Christ on the flour tortilla. There are enclaves
fraught with the possibility of magical realism anywhere the ruling
whitebread culture is not in complete control. Bawlamer's ethnic
neighborhoods hold promise.
: Keith
--
Ted Samsel....tejas@infi.net.com/bh...@freenet-in-a.cwru.edu...
Meg Worley
>That was SubGee's *Virgin Mary in the Christmas Lights*. I mentioned
>the visage of the Christ on the flour tortilla. There are enclaves
>fraught with the possibility of magical realism anywhere the ruling
>whitebread culture is not in complete control. Bawlamer's ethnic
>neighborhoods hold promise.
I don't think that 'whitebread' is the word you want,
Teodito. The South is as whitebread as you could
ask for (preferably with Miracle Whip -- I have actually
been to country diners that serve mayonaisse sandwiches),
yet this is fertile country for Magic Realism. We not only
have Nancy Foster and her visions on the 13th of each
month and the sighting of Jesus in a plate of spaghetti
on a Pizza Hut billboard on Peachtree Rd, but we also have
(drum roll, please) the Southern Baptist Church!
I rest my case.
Rage away,
meg
--
mwo...@mathcs.emory.edu: Oldest Living Emory Senior Tells All
Rita Rouvalis
Keith Morgan <kamo...@mit.edu> wrote:
> I agree entirely. One of the great deceptions of our age
> is the flattening of American culture by malls/franchises.
>
>
>I also agree that mall culture has led to a terrible homogenization of the
>country, indeed, of much of the world. However, in what sense is this a
>"deception"? Or, are you saying the cultural expressions such as Ted's Virgin
>Mary in the Xmas lights put the lie to the homogeneous state?
Yes.
Ted Samsel
: I don't think that 'whitebread' is the word you want,
: Teodito. The South is as whitebread as you could
: ask for (preferably with Miracle Whip -- I have actually
: been to country diners that serve mayonaisse sandwiches),
: yet this is fertile country for Magic Realism. We not only
: have Nancy Foster and her visions on the 13th of each
: month and the sighting of Jesus in a plate of spaghetti
: on a Pizza Hut billboard on Peachtree Rd, but we also have
: (drum roll, please) the Southern Baptist Church!
: I rest my case.
: Rage away,
Having been quoted in print on cornbread, I will add that the mere use
of good cornbread with minimal sweetener, should add a soupcon of
"soulful & footwashin' magical realism" to the burgoo cauldron we call
the South. Thanks to Srta. Worley on mentioning this.
Hail Howard Finster! Amen.
: --
: mwo...@mathcs.emory.edu: Oldest Living Emory Senior Tells All
--
Ted Samsel
: In a previous article, te...@infi.net (Ted Samsel) says:
: >Meg Worley (mwo...@mathcs.emory.edu) wrote:
: >
: >: I don't think that 'whitebread' is the word you want,
: >: Teodito. The South is as whitebread as you could
: >: ask for (preferably with Miracle Whip -- I have actually
: >: been to country diners that serve mayonaisse sandwiches),
: >: yet this is fertile country for Magic Realism. We not only
: >: have Nancy Foster and her visions on the 13th of each
: >: month and the sighting of Jesus in a plate of spaghetti
: >: on a Pizza Hut billboard on Peachtree Rd, but we also have
: >: (drum roll, please) the Southern Baptist Church!
: >
: >: I rest my case.
: >
: >: Rage away,
: >
: >Having been quoted in print on cornbread, I will add that the mere use
: >of good cornbread with minimal sweetener, should add a soupcon of
: >"soulful & footwashin' magical realism" to the burgoo cauldron we call
: >the South. Thanks to Srta. Worley on mentioning this.
: >
: Never mind footwashing, try snakehandling, speaking in tongues,
: and being "slain in the spirit." Those are the real McCoys.
: Of course, this limits MR to the ignorant and superstitious and re-inforces
: my suspicion of it as an artful pose on the part of a pack of Latin
: American literati.
If those are the real Mcoys (and I in that I agree fully), who then, oh
sage of West (by Gog & Magog) Virginia, are the real Hatfields?
(Rhett-orically speaking, of course).
Jeffrey A. Del Col
In a previous article, te...@infi.net (Ted Samsel) says:
>Meg Worley (mwo...@mathcs.emory.edu) wrote:
>
>: I don't think that 'whitebread' is the word you want,
>: Teodito. The South is as whitebread as you could
>: ask for (preferably with Miracle Whip -- I have actually
>: been to country diners that serve mayonaisse sandwiches),
>: yet this is fertile country for Magic Realism. We not only
>: have Nancy Foster and her visions on the 13th of each
>: month and the sighting of Jesus in a plate of spaghetti
>: on a Pizza Hut billboard on Peachtree Rd, but we also have
>: (drum roll, please) the Southern Baptist Church!
>
>: I rest my case.
>
>: Rage away,
>
>Having been quoted in print on cornbread, I will add that the mere use
>of good cornbread with minimal sweetener, should add a soupcon of
>"soulful & footwashin' magical realism" to the burgoo cauldron we call
>the South. Thanks to Srta. Worley on mentioning this.
>
Never mind footwashing, try snakehandling, speaking in tongues,
and being "slain in the spirit." Those are the real McCoys.
Of course, this limits MR to the ignorant and superstitious and re-inforces
my suspicion of it as an artful pose on the part of a pack of Latin
American literati.
J. Del Col
David J. Loftus
Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
By the proffered definition, Ray Bradbury's work (I'm thinking of books
such as _Dandelion Wine_, where events that occurred in everyone's
live -- e.g., getting lost in the woods, and making sense of very old
people when you are young -- coexist with events that never could have
occurred in anyone's life) consists of a lot of magic realism.
David Loftus
Welshdog
realism category? Or is this restricted primarily to South American
cultures?
phil
writes:
>Does Paul Gallico's book, The Man who was Magic, fall in to the magic
>realism category? Or is this restricted primarily to South American
>cultures?
I haven't read Gallico, but I can say that the Australian, Peter Carey,
has written a brilliant magic realist novel in "Illiwacker", and
Rushdie is known as a magic realist, so the term is not that
restrictive....
-Phil
Keith Morgan
I seem to remember a thread of ages past in which American magic
realism was discussed (this is not the `94 discussion). Someone
mentioned Ted Mooney's _Easy Journey to Other Planets_ as a possible
contender. While definitions might vary I would also nominate Mooney's
new novel, _Traffic and Laughter_, which (coincidentally) I am now
reading. As with the first novel I am impressed by Mooney's ability to
surround his characters with such an intense atmospheric effect. He
also manages to suffuse his erotic scenes with this same intense
atmosphere. I wasn't even aware he'd written a new novel until I came
across this one. I am surprised he hasn't caught on in a bigger way.
--
"The corruptions of Whitewater are like Keith Morgan
the fruit of a richly bearing tree, and kamo...@mit.edu
it seems that every day a new dead hand
rises from a misty Arkansas lake." Mark Helprin
Keith Morgan
>In a previous article, kamo...@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Keith Morgan) says:
>>
>>I seem to remember a thread of ages past in which American magic
>>realism was discussed (this is not the `94 discussion). Someone
>>mentioned Ted Mooney's _Easy Journey to Other Planets_ as a possible
>Isn't that EASY --TRAVEL-- TO OTHER PLANETS? I may be wrong.
Yep, a slip twixt the brain and the keyboard.
>>contender. While definitions might vary I would also nominate Mooney's
>>new novel, _Traffic and Laughter_, which (coincidentally) I am now
>>reading. As with the first novel I am impressed by Mooney's ability to
>>surround his characters with such an intense atmospheric effect. He
>>also manages to suffuse his erotic scenes with this same intense
>>atmosphere.....
>Doesn't ETTOP start with a scene of a woman copulating with a dolphin?
Yep.
>See Carl Hiassen's account of an encounter with a hyper-hormonal cetacean in
>NATIVE TONGUE--much funnier, none of Mooney's pretentiousness, IMHO.
I love Hiassen and agree that his account is funnier; however, I don't think
humour was Mooney's intention. You call it pretentious, I call it an
interesting novel. As I mentioned in the earlier post what impresses me about
Mooney is his ability to create an other worldly atmosphere in the midst of
every day life. Examples are the information sickness in ETTOP and the
alternative history in _Traffic and Laughter_. All mileage will vary, of
course, and if other readers think Mooney pretentious that might explain his
lack of fame.
Keith Morgan
kamo...@mit.edu
Jeffrey A. Del Col
In a previous article, kamo...@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Keith Morgan) says:
>
>I seem to remember a thread of ages past in which American magic
>realism was discussed (this is not the `94 discussion). Someone
>mentioned Ted Mooney's _Easy Journey to Other Planets_ as a possible
Isn't that EASY --TRAVEL-- TO OTHER PLANETS? I may be wrong.
>contender. While definitions might vary I would also nominate Mooney's
>new novel, _Traffic and Laughter_, which (coincidentally) I am now
>reading. As with the first novel I am impressed by Mooney's ability to
>surround his characters with such an intense atmospheric effect. He
>also manages to suffuse his erotic scenes with this same intense
>atmosphere.....
Doesn't ETTOP start with a scene of a woman copulating with a dolphin?
See Carl Hiassen's account of an encounter with a hyper-hormonal cetacean in
NATIVE TONGUE--much funnier, none of Mooney's pretentiousness, IMHO.
J. Del Col
--
Jeff Del Col * "Sleeplessness is like metaphysics.
A-B College * Be there."
Philippi, WV *
* ----Charles Simic----
David J. Loftus
Welshdog (wels...@aol.com) wrote:
: Does Paul Gallico's book, The Man who was Magic, fall in to the magic
: realism category? Or is this restricted primarily to South American
: cultures?
While I am convinced the category does not apply strictly to South
American writers, I don't think the marvelous Gallico book qualifies.
I think of it more as a fable. A parable. A Christ-figure story.
David Loftus