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when Sauron made the ring ......
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chrishoelscher
Mar 4, 2013, 6:27:04 PM3/4/13
to
why didnt he give it the power/ability to protect its wearer/bearer??
on at least 5 occassions - the bearer/wearer of the ring was subjected to bodily harm:
Sauron (finger cut off)
deagol (killed)
Frodo (weathertop) + shelob + finger bitten off
I would have thought that Sauron woul dhave thought of that right off the bat ... or is that his arrogance speaking - that nothing in/on Middle-Earth would/could ever hame him ???
on at least 5 occassions - the bearer/wearer of the ring was subjected to bodily harm:
Sauron (finger cut off)
deagol (killed)
Frodo (weathertop) + shelob + finger bitten off
I would have thought that Sauron woul dhave thought of that right off the bat ... or is that his arrogance speaking - that nothing in/on Middle-Earth would/could ever hame him ???
Stan Brown
Mar 4, 2013, 8:11:24 PM3/4/13
to
On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 17:27:04 -0600, chrishoelscher wrote:
>
> why didnt he give it the power/ability to protect its wearer/bearer??
Because he didn't expect the bearer would ever be anyone else?
>
> why didnt he give it the power/ability to protect its wearer/bearer??
(Remember, when he made the Ring, he was still able to re-embody
himself at will.)
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen's site)
Tolkien letters FAQ:
http://mysite.verizon.net/aznirb/mtr/lettersfaq.html
FAQ of the Rings: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm
Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm
more FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/faqget.htm
chrishoelscher
Mar 5, 2013, 9:29:06 PM3/5/13
to
if sauron did not put a self-protection mechinism into the ring, then Sauron is indeed a victim of his own arrogance? delusions?
there were beings more powerful than he in the First Age who caused him bodily harm (Beren/Luthien come to mind) - he flew off to Morgoth with blood dripping from his throat - perhaps with the Morgoth factor of ring amplication - he could have protected himself from other Maia or even Vala - had he chosen to so empower the ring ...
but perhaps he had to choose what things the ring could do and tgher was only so much "room" on the ring - or he could only push so much of his essence into the ring - or he could only draw so much essence of Morgoth from Ea that there simply wasnt room for self protection ... just a thought
there were beings more powerful than he in the First Age who caused him bodily harm (Beren/Luthien come to mind) - he flew off to Morgoth with blood dripping from his throat - perhaps with the Morgoth factor of ring amplication - he could have protected himself from other Maia or even Vala - had he chosen to so empower the ring ...
but perhaps he had to choose what things the ring could do and tgher was only so much "room" on the ring - or he could only push so much of his essence into the ring - or he could only draw so much essence of Morgoth from Ea that there simply wasnt room for self protection ... just a thought
Bill O'Meally
Mar 5, 2013, 10:19:00 PM3/5/13
to
Sauron. It could offer no more protection than he was able to provide
for himself. Besides, the Ring had but one purpose, that being to
ensnare other ringbearers to his will.
--
Bill O'Meally
chrishoelscher
Mar 5, 2013, 11:05:24 PM3/5/13
to
i am not sure that i agree with that assertion that the ring gave Sauron no more power than no ring at all - i seem to recall that with the ring - i seem to recall reading (i will do research to prove or disprove this) that the ring amplified Sauron's powers beyond what they were without the existence of the ring - again i will look for citations to support my thoughts
Steve Morrison
Mar 6, 2013, 12:30:37 AM3/6/13
to
chrishoelscher wrote:
(reformatted to adjust line lengths)
From Letter #131, to Milton Waldman:
But to achieve this he had been obliged to let a great part of
his own inherent power (a frequent and very significant motive
in myth and fairy-story) pass into the One Ring. While he wore
it, his power on earth was actually enhanced.
(reformatted to adjust line lengths)
But to achieve this he had been obliged to let a great part of
his own inherent power (a frequent and very significant motive
in myth and fairy-story) pass into the One Ring. While he wore
it, his power on earth was actually enhanced.
Thomas Koenig
Mar 7, 2013, 3:26:19 PM3/7/13
to
Bill O'Meally <omeallymd> schrieb:
> The power in the Ring only contained the power that was native to
> Sauron.
I had understood that all Rings contained, or used, the "Morgoth
element", enhancing their power. When the Rings lost their power,
this part of Morgoth's corruption was destroyed.
> The power in the Ring only contained the power that was native to
> Sauron.
element", enhancing their power. When the Rings lost their power,
this part of Morgoth's corruption was destroyed.
Paul S. Person
Mar 8, 2013, 11:54:24 AM3/8/13
to
believe the idea was that /everything/ in Middle Earth was corrupted
by "Morgoth stuff". So, yes, the Ring, being made of gold from Middle
Earth, would contain some "Morgoth stuff".
But I don't think destroying the Ring would destroy the "Morgoth
stuff"; for one thing, the gold was probably not destroyed and, even
if it were destroyed, the "Morgoth stuff" it contained would simply
join with the "Morgoth stuff" in the lava. This, after all, is lava we
are talking about, not the Philosopher's stone, an atomic reactor, or
a disintegrator beam!
--
"Nature must be explained in
her own terms through
the experience of our senses."
Bill O'Meally
Mar 9, 2013, 12:00:32 AM3/9/13
to
On 2013-03-08 16:54:24 +0000, Paul S. Person said:
> It has been a very long time since I last read /Morgoth's Ring/, but I
> believe the idea was that /everything/ in Middle Earth was corrupted
> by "Morgoth stuff". So, yes, the Ring, being made of gold from Middle
> Earth, would contain some "Morgoth stuff".
I also need to re-read MR. I think it is discussed in _Letters_ as
> It has been a very long time since I last read /Morgoth's Ring/, but I
> believe the idea was that /everything/ in Middle Earth was corrupted
> by "Morgoth stuff". So, yes, the Ring, being made of gold from Middle
> Earth, would contain some "Morgoth stuff".
well? But as I recall the Morgoth Element was indeed infused in all
matter, but some substances had more of it than others. Gold was
supposed to be especially high in it, silver much less so. Doubtless
that figured into Sauron's choice of metals in the forging of the Ring.
Water was supposed to be nigh free of ithe Morgoth Element. Perhaps
that is what accounts for the Ringwraith's hydrophobia.
--
Bill O'Meally
Michael Graf
Mar 9, 2013, 5:39:10 AM3/9/13
to
Hi!
Am 09.03.2013 06:00, schrieb Bill O'Meally:
> I also need to re-read MR. I think it is discussed in _Letters_ as well?
> But as I recall the Morgoth Element was indeed infused in all matter,
Even in SIL it is stated that Melkor had a part in everything.
> but some substances had more of it than others. Gold was supposed to be
> especially high in it, silver much less so. Doubtless that figured into
> Sauron's choice of metals in the forging of the Ring. Water was supposed
> to be nigh free of ithe Morgoth Element. Perhaps that is what accounts
> for the Ringwraith's hydrophobia.
And maybe also explains why the Seven fueled the dwarves' longing for
gold. (!)
...and maybe also why its possible to kill vampires with silver bullets. ;-)
Am 09.03.2013 06:00, schrieb Bill O'Meally:
> I also need to re-read MR. I think it is discussed in _Letters_ as well?
> But as I recall the Morgoth Element was indeed infused in all matter,
> but some substances had more of it than others. Gold was supposed to be
> especially high in it, silver much less so. Doubtless that figured into
> Sauron's choice of metals in the forging of the Ring. Water was supposed
> to be nigh free of ithe Morgoth Element. Perhaps that is what accounts
> for the Ringwraith's hydrophobia.
gold. (!)
...and maybe also why its possible to kill vampires with silver bullets. ;-)
Steve Morrison
Mar 14, 2013, 8:19:44 PM3/14/13
to
to function because it contains too much gold with its "Morgoth
element"!
http://preview.tinyurl.com/bhu8bh9
Curlytop
Mar 18, 2013, 6:05:14 PM3/18/13
to
Bill O'Meally <omeallymd at geemail dot com> set the following eddies
spiralling through the space-time continuum:
It`s a shame that one of the last acts of the Witch-king was to put a curse
upon mithril, that it should become mortal and passed from Middle-earth.
The metal has since been rediscovered by the children of Men, who have
found it to have excellent corrosion protection properties, but alas, the
Witch-king's curse is still upon it. Exactly how much of the Morgoth
Element is in it has not yet been determined, for it is now quite dangerous
to handle. And the children of Men, having lost much of the lore of the
Elder Days, have given mithril a new name, reflecting the fact that every
grain of it has been forged anew in their nuclear furnaces.
Technetium.
--
ξ: ) Proud to be curly
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
spiralling through the space-time continuum:
upon mithril, that it should become mortal and passed from Middle-earth.
The metal has since been rediscovered by the children of Men, who have
found it to have excellent corrosion protection properties, but alas, the
Witch-king's curse is still upon it. Exactly how much of the Morgoth
Element is in it has not yet been determined, for it is now quite dangerous
to handle. And the children of Men, having lost much of the lore of the
Elder Days, have given mithril a new name, reflecting the fact that every
grain of it has been forged anew in their nuclear furnaces.
Technetium.
--
ξ: ) Proud to be curly
Interchange the alphabetic letter groups to reply
Taemon
Mar 19, 2013, 3:44:18 AM3/19/13
to
On 18-3-2013 23:05, Curlytop wrote:
> Technetium.
Titanium. It's perfect. I would never look twice at a golden ring, but
titanium?
> Technetium.
Titanium. It's perfect. I would never look twice at a golden ring, but
titanium?
Stan Brown
Mar 19, 2013, 6:16:50 PM3/19/13
to
choice, with no blackout periods.
Taemon
Mar 20, 2013, 3:07:13 AM3/20/13
to
On 19-3-2013 23:16, Stan Brown wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 08:44:18 +0100, Taemon wrote:
>> On 18-3-2013 23:05, Curlytop wrote:
>>> Technetium.
>> Titanium. It's perfect. I would never look twice at a golden ring, but
>> titanium?
> Plus, it's good for extra free miles on the Nazg�l mount of your
> choice, with no blackout periods.
See?! Awesome!
> On Tue, 19 Mar 2013 08:44:18 +0100, Taemon wrote:
>> On 18-3-2013 23:05, Curlytop wrote:
>>> Technetium.
>> Titanium. It's perfect. I would never look twice at a golden ring, but
>> titanium?
> Plus, it's good for extra free miles on the Nazg�l mount of your
> choice, with no blackout periods.
Wayne Brown
Mar 21, 2013, 6:48:40 PM3/21/13
to
with laser engraving. (Not in the Black Speech, though--they chose a
phrase in Greek. :-) Beautiful rings, and extremely durable.
Myself, I wear a sterling silver copy of the Greymoor Hill ring, one of
the Anglo-Saxon runic rings that are thought to have been part of
Tolkien's inspiration for his magic rings. The original is in the
British Museum:
http://www.britishmuseum.org/research/search_the_collection_database/search_object_details.aspx?objectId=88694&partId=1
--
F. Wayne Brown <fwb...@bellsouth.net>
ￜￜs ofereode, ￜisses swa mￜg. ("That passed away, this also can.")
from "Deor," in the Exeter Book (folios 100r-100v)
gort
Apr 14, 2013, 12:55:44 PM4/14/13
to
fit. It's not as durable as gold but a better conductor. Or
maybe it's an alloy of platinum-iridium.
Titanium means "giant's metal" and it's a durable and
useful metal, a good choice for a weapon or armor.
Troels Forchhammer
Apr 20, 2013, 6:40:17 PM4/20/13
to
In message <news:kh6k9s$b04$1...@dont-email.me>
Steve Morrison <rim...@toast.net> spoke these staves:
Without knowing what Chris was responding to it is impossible to say
for certain, but at first sight it would seem to me a
misunderstanding of a comment about Sauron not being reduced.
The idea is that, as Steve shows, Sauron's was enhanced while he
actually _wore_ the Master Ring on his finger.
As long as the Ring lasted and it remained Sauron's (i.e. as long as
no-one else mastered the Ring completely), Sauron was not reduced in
power compared to his state before he made the Ring, but neither was
he enhanced.
When the Ring was destroyed, he lost it ... ;)
I seem to remember that there is a nice explanation of this in Stan's
Ring-FAQ ... <searching> ... yup, got it:
<http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q1-Rapport>
As I said, a nice explanation.
--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.
Love while you've got
love to give.
Live while you've got
life to live.
- Piet Hein, /Memento Vivere/
Steve Morrison <rim...@toast.net> spoke these staves:
>
> chrishoelscher wrote:
> (reformatted to adjust line lengths)
>>
>> i am not sure that i agree with that assertion that the ring gave
>> Sauron no more power than no ring at all
[...]
> chrishoelscher wrote:
> (reformatted to adjust line lengths)
>>
>> i am not sure that i agree with that assertion that the ring gave
>> Sauron no more power than no ring at all
>
> From Letter #131, to Milton Waldman:
<snip quotation>
> From Letter #131, to Milton Waldman:
Without knowing what Chris was responding to it is impossible to say
for certain, but at first sight it would seem to me a
misunderstanding of a comment about Sauron not being reduced.
The idea is that, as Steve shows, Sauron's was enhanced while he
actually _wore_ the Master Ring on his finger.
As long as the Ring lasted and it remained Sauron's (i.e. as long as
no-one else mastered the Ring completely), Sauron was not reduced in
power compared to his state before he made the Ring, but neither was
he enhanced.
When the Ring was destroyed, he lost it ... ;)
I seem to remember that there is a nice explanation of this in Stan's
Ring-FAQ ... <searching> ... yup, got it:
<http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q1-Rapport>
As I said, a nice explanation.
--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.
Love while you've got
love to give.
Live while you've got
life to live.
- Piet Hein, /Memento Vivere/
Stan Brown
Apr 20, 2013, 8:11:15 PM4/20/13
to
On Sun, 21 Apr 2013 00:40:17 +0200, Troels Forchhammer wrote:
>
> I seem to remember that there is a nice explanation of this in Stan's
> Ring-FAQ ... <searching> ... yup, got it:
> <http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q1-Rapport>
> As I said, a nice explanation.
Tusind tak, Troels!
>
> I seem to remember that there is a nice explanation of this in Stan's
> Ring-FAQ ... <searching> ... yup, got it:
> <http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/ringfaq.htm#Q1-Rapport>
> As I said, a nice explanation.
John W Kennedy
Mar 13, 2014, 6:56:09 PM3/13/14
to
(Apparently they cut them out of sheet metal, since it's impossible to
forge the stuff.)
--
John W Kennedy
"Information is light. Information, in itself, about anything, is light."
-- Tom Stoppard. "Night and Day"
Julian Bradfield
Mar 14, 2014, 3:42:46 AM3/14/14
to
On 2014-03-13, John W Kennedy <jwk...@attglobal.net> wrote:
> Pooh! The swords they use at Medieval Times are made of Titanium.
> (Apparently they cut them out of sheet metal, since it's impossible to
> forge the stuff.)
Titanium can be forged, even with a coal-fired forge.
> Pooh! The swords they use at Medieval Times are made of Titanium.
> (Apparently they cut them out of sheet metal, since it's impossible to
> forge the stuff.)
There are demos on Youtube..
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