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Book IV, chapter 2

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Raven

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Dec 22, 2000, 7:51:06 PM12/22/00
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So. Seems I lost a little tug-of-war with Prembone about Frodo's
preferences. She established him as partial to males, though he
discovered this himself only on the Barrow-downs... I broadened his
tastes by letting him seduce Elf-girls in Rivendell with the Ring, and
now it appears that he was merely faking. No bisexual there.
Oh well. It isn't so important. In Rivendell I just wanted to get
the snow off him, because I don't share the opinion that virgin men are
ridiculous and justly targeted for laughter. Of course, I don't get
nearly enough p~~~y myself to unhypocritically cause such derision...
That pompous git and now confirmed felon (who voted in Miami only
through fraud) Gandalf, now, I should have no second thoughts about
positively pelting *him* with snowballs. But he will not appear in this
chapter: someone else must do that, or not.
And no, the rather unexpected turn of events that you will see is
*not* my way of stopping further homosex between Sam and Frodo. When I
got to the point where a somewhat less unexpected (and more obvious)
thing happens, the idea just struck me...

**************************************************************

Spiegel moved languidly, with her bust thrust forward so hard that
Frodo thought that surely her upper back must ache like sonofabitch,
which it did. Sam was in a fix: hand in Frodo's hand, Frodo's thumb
caressing; eyes on Spiegel's bosom; and mind ferociously on Rosie, Red
Rosie, Revolutionary Rosie. Rosie with the athame and hands as swift as
her temper.
Spiegel glanced at Sam and felt satisfied. She started down the path
towards the marshes, her small yet shapely bottom drawing Sam's eyes
like Playboy magazine draws adolescent boys and televangelists. The
cat-calls from two passing joggers on their way towards the fast-food
joint below proved that it wasn't just Sam: Spiegel was not as abhorrent
as she thought herself.
Two hours later they were gorging cheeseburgers and french fries.
Spiegel would at first take only a few fries and a bit of salad from one
of Sam's burgers. "Gulible, you really should eat some more," said
Frodo. "You look starved." Looking guiltily at Frodo, the stick-thin
hobbit-girl replied in song:

/The greasy food
upsets my mood
it swells my bod.
I'm grossly big
I look a pig
I feel a clod.
I always feel ---/

"Ha! ha! What does we feel?" she said, looking furtively at the two
men. "We'll tell you," she whispered. "He told me years ago, Baggins
told me when I was just a little girl." A shudder shook her body, and
Sam catching the look in her eyes felt a sudden sympathy welling in him.

/Terribly fat;
Nose like a hat;
Always starving, ever growing;
Look like needing tugboat towing;
Never noticed till he said:
Boys would always want me dead!
Menfolk laugh behind my back
'Cause I waddle like a sack!
That's what Bilbo Baggins told
When I was just ten years old ---/

Suddenly Sam understood poor Spiegel's troubles. A self-starver, an
anorexic little girl. How beautiful and popular could she have been!
Even in her emaciated state she was attractive. With her green eyes and
hair that when washed and tended would be a shock of flaming red, she
should be the proverbial man-killer.
That was the deciding moment for Sam as far as old Bilbo Baggins was
concerned: with just a few comments to an impressionable little girl,
just to while away some tedious afternoons probably, this rich bastard
had shattered this poor working-class (Sam's assumption) girl's
self-confidence... oooh, Sam couldn't wait for the revolution.
Frodo felt a little of the same. He didn't notice that she was (to a
straight man) beautiful, but he felt her shame and knew how unneeded it
was. He looked at Sam. "Don't look at me," he whispered. "I know as
well as you that Bilbo should not have said such things."
Loudly he said to Spiegel: "Look, old Bilbo is my uncle. I know him
better than you do. He is full of bovine refuse. You should have heard
those language lessons I took from him... you are not fat!"
"Yes, we isss!"
"No, you issn't! Here, have a hamburger!" He handed her a
quarter-pounder with extra cheese. Doubtfully she took it, and nibbled
a single crumb.
"Ack ack phbttt! Trying to poison poor Gulible they are, dumb
menfolk! Grease and fat, Spiegel cannot eat that!"
"Come on," said Sam. "Try it. Give it a chance. Frodo is right:
you are thin as a twig. Ten of those would do you good - ten each day
for a month. We aren't teasing you!"
"Yes you isss! Baggins said we iss fat as a hippo in a butter
factory."
"And another Baggins says otherwise," Frodo replied. "Why believe in
him and not me?"
"Becaussse he isss straight!" The look in Spiegel's beautiful eyes
was venomous.
Frodo shrugged, not noticing Sam opening his mouth and shutting it
again. "Have it your way then, fatso," he said.

This being the last restaurant for several days, the hobbits bought
several packs of vacuum-packed hamburgers in a nearby supermarket. Then
they started towards the marshes. At first they followed a tourist
trail, but this soon veered aside, and they left it. They were in the
marshes proper.
"I have been here before," said Spiegel. "Hobbit-mens should be
careful. There are alligators here. They don't touch me, because I'm
too fat: I bet their cholesterol count soars at the sight of us."
"No, they won't eat you because gators eat meat and not sticks and
wire with blobs of fat on them," replied Frodo, without noticing the
hurt look that this produced in Spiegel. Sam noticed, and his hate
against the upper classes increased another notch.

Some time later, when Frodo was passing hraka behind a bush, Sam
tried again to explain to Spiegel that she was not fat. "Have you heard
about anorexia?" he asked.
"Yes. What's that got to do with us? Only thin people who *think*
that they are fat have it!"
"Have you looked in a mirror?"
"No! We hates mirrors!"
"You cannot honestly think that you are fatter than me and Frodo!"
"Yes we are! Look!" She grabbed a fold of skin between two fingers.
"Look like the Michelin man, we does! Like a stack of car tyres. Truck
tyres!"
"There is no fat inside that fold," said Sam. Spiegel turned away
and would not answer.

"Spiegel, why do you always refer to yourself as 'we'?"
"Because we are so fat that if ever we went by plane, we would have
to buy two or three tickets. And boy would we be in trouble if they
were not adjacent! Baggins said so."
"How would that old coot know? He's so rowdy once he's had a drink
or two that every airline has him on a file - they refuse him whenever
he tries to buy a ticket. They've had enough of /him/!"

At nightfall they made camp. Frodo took out the gas burner and
inexpertly lit it. Then he put a grille inside a thick-walled pot and
put three hamburgers on it. Soon a somewhat delicious smell spread.
For a while Sam tried to convince Spiegel that she was not fat, when
suddenly she relented. With a look of terrible revulsion on her face,
she wolfed down a hamburger, and then two pounds of lettuce. Sam
whispered to her: "And please don't sneak off and throw that up!" After
a moment of thought he added: "You won't be a good girl if you do."
Spiegel, the eyes of her mind upon Frodo's camera, sighed and curled up
to sleep.

Some hours later she woke up, finding the camera placed next to her.
The other two were gone, but from behind some densely leaved bushes came
a quiet, rythmic rustling. Heart pounding, she grabbed the camera and
sneaked over to the bushes. Quietly she peered over them, then put the
camera to her eye.
And then lowered it with a sigh. Midnight and a low half moon are
not the perfect lighting for photographing without a flashlight, and
/that/ was not an option.

The next morning Sam asked her if she had got a few good snaps that
might be used for some revolutionarily useful extortion. She returned a
brief explanation. Sam thought for a moment.
"Hey, Frodo. I think we should stop travelling during the day.
Spiegel says there are evil things about. Evil things with eyes, and
they report to Minas Tirith(tm). It will go ill with your Núrnenshire
hovel, er, estate if *they* get their hands on that deed." Frodo, by
now trusting Sam totally, made no objections.

Sometime later that day, Spiegel got some interesting snaps among
those bushes.

That evening Sam lit the gasfire.
"Won't those Minas Tirith(tm)-spies see that gaslight?" asked Frodo.
"No," replied Spiegel. "For one thing, it is difficult to see that
little flame in broad daylight. For another, marsh-lights can often be
seen around here."
Frodo looked at Sam, who nodded. A little later, Sam convinced
Spiegel to have another hamburger, with extra cheese. They were out of
green stuff, but she ate tomato slices instead. Two pounds of them. At
nightfall they packed their things and got started.

"What did you do *that* for?!" Sam's voice was angry. "Had a change
of preferences? Suddenly like women again now?"
Frodo chuckled. "Not in a lifetime. Just wanted to see that lard
wobble."

"Spiegel, don't pay that rich slavemaster no attention! Just like
his *father* Bilbo, he is. It's just one of them simian alpha-male
power-displays that that family is so fond of. They'll be up against
the wall the both of them one of these days, and you can be in the
firing squad!" The girl, sobbing quietly, threw him a glance but said
nothing.

The night was dark, but not altogether so. Civilization was far
behind them, and they were in a trackless land. But miles and miles
away the lights of civilization were strong enough to illuminate the
tops of the reeds even here: billboards, headlights, roving searchlights
reflected off the clouds. As they walked deeper into the marshes,
further from these lightsources, the night became darker. Then the sky
turned pale in the east, and the mountain fences of Mordor glittering
with pinpoint lights showed faintly against it. They made camp next to
a wide mere. Now they were deep into the marshes. The ground was wet.
The rustling reeds were tall, but there were no bushes. To Sam's
relief, Frodo judged that they could have no privacy from Spiegel here.
"The reeds would rustle too much," he whispered coyly. "They would sway
like clusters of flagpoles in a gale. They would..." Sam closed his
ears to the rest.
Twice that day they cooked hamburgers. During their first meal, Sam
coaxed Spiegel into having an entire quarter-pounder. "She already
looks healthier," whispered Frodo to Sam. "Yes, really swelling," he
added more loudly. Spiegel maintained a stony look. At their second
meal they had to go without any vegetable stuff - she had eaten their
onions, a whole pound of them, and her breath was not very nice for a
while. More than once that day she had had the screaming hrakas.
Sam failed to convince her to have a second burger in lieu of the
vegetables that she had followed up her previous three burgers with. At
nightfall they set out.

Suddenly they stopped and shrank. It was foggy. Out of the air came
two distant voices.
/"...but honey..."
"You are *not* killing that fine man, hear? Such a handsome, fine,
strong, noble, handsome man! I saw him in the trailer. I think it was
him anyway."
"But I did kill him!"
"He was not last seen dead!"
"But my plotline demands that he be dead! It's my story after all!"
"And this is my skillet!" /<clong>
/"Ow! You silly old crone..." /<boing BOINK>
/"Say it! Say he'll return to the story!" /<clang>
/"Okay, okay, hon..."
"Letting that fine man die and the miserable creature that stabbed
him live..."/
The two voices trailed off. Frodo shivered. "What was that? I feel
a strange and uncanny foreboding." The other two shrugged. Then the
trio continued onwards through the marshes.

"Aaah!!" Frodo's panicky shriek rang through the night. The other
two turned like tops to face him. "There is a dead man! A dead man in
the water! With weeds in his hair!" He was staring into a wide pool
with several marshlights shining near the bank where he was standing.
"That's strange," replied Spiegel, approaching him with apprehension.
Sam cast a look at the dimly lit figure. "It's the corpse of a man
alright. C'mon. He's nothing to do with us. Why haven't the
alligators got him?"
"It looks like..." Frodo muttered to himself, unable to extricate
himself from the sight. He bent down closer to the corpse.
With a splash a strong arm shot out of the water. Before anyone
could react, Frodo was grabbed by the tunic, dragged into the water, and
a shadow rose up out of it and pinned the wildly thrashing hobbit to the
muddy bottom. A mad fierce gleam was in his eyes. The marshlights
shone like Griswold Christmas lights. It was the man in the water, and
he was alive!
"Boromir(tm)! Boromir(tm)!" cried Sam. "You're alive! But I saw
him kill you!"
Boromir(tm) did not reply, until Sam reached out from the bank and
grabbed him by the shoulder. Then he pushed Sam back with one hand,
still holding Frodo down with the other.
"Yes!" he cried. "That he tried! First he will take the Ring to the
enemy who would devour us all, land and *slaves* being his promised
wages, and then he tries to kill me! And *then* the others lash me to a
raft and send me down the Rauros falls!"
Frodo's struggling grew weaker. A burst of bubbles came from his
mouth. Then Boromir(tm) drew his sword and pierced the drowning hobbit
through the chest, to the hilt.

At dawn they stood on the bank of the little lake in the middle of
the marshes, not watching the feast of the alligators. On the ground
lay pieces of wet confetti. "Lies," said Boromir, (tm) no longer, as he
cast down the last bits of paper. They looked like chads. "Lies of
Tyrannosauron and of El Rond. And this," he fingered the Ring, "goes
straight into the fire. To Mount Viagra! It is an instrument of
oppression. Are you with me, Sam, revolutionary Sam?" Pointing at the
red froth of the alligators: "Is something like this not what you
dreamed of all the time? *I* noticed the razor blade in his eggs!"
"You...you're the son of the Steward," said Sam. "Yes, I can't say
that I disapprove. Except for the signs at the tourist trails about not
feeding the litigators. But *you*?"
Boromir sighed. "I was always secretly uneasy about the
corporate-feudal oppression that my family inflicts on the people. Then
that little brat put his sword in me. I had drawn sword against him a
few moments before, I must admit..."
"I noticed."
"Oh did you? Well, that opened my stomach. But what *really* opened
my *eyes* was what happened after. Bleeding like a pig I fought against
orcs, and they could not stand against me. They clove my horn, but they
couldn't touch me! The survivours ran off, and I believe Lego-lass and
Giggly had their share of them. If orcs it was: there was a strange
metallic gleam on them that was not armour. They didn't bleed much when
I made great gashes in them with my sword, and what little blood came
was black. Orc blood is as red as ours... but I fell exhausted with the
wound that Frodo had given me. And then... and then..." Greater rage
gleamed in his eyes. "Aragon pretended that I was dead. He questioned
me, and when Giggly and Lego-lass came, he lied and said that I was
dead. The other two believed him, even though I spoke and protested!
They knocked me cold, and when I woke up I was tied to a raft and
drifting off the Rauros.
How I survived I cannot explain. The fall into the churning bowl
broke the raft into nearly sawdust, and I was free. I was unable to
swim, but grabbed a larger piece of wood and drifted down the river,
until I was washed up on the east bank. That Aragon is so wimpy at the
sight of blood that he had closed my stomach-wound crudely with some
rings from the chain-mail of an orc (or whatever it was), and that saved
my life then. Otherwise my intestines would be trailing the length of
the river by now ---
I lay on the riverbank. Happily the sword-thrust had gone in at the
diaphragm, and missed the gullet and lungs and heart and intestines and
that. That Frodo was tall for a hobbit, and I had been bending forward.
It was the dirt on the blade that nearly finished me off, not so much
the wound itself. An old woman found me and carried me into a hut. She
saved my life. She didn't speak. She kept a large and battered skillet
in her hand most of the time... Then when I woke up and knew that I was
going to live, the hut, the bed and the woman were gone. I lay on
fronds near the river. I was dizzy with fever, even when I became
stronger, and I staggered blindly for days, until I stumbled into that
pool there. I nearly drowned. I put my head on a submerged tussock so
that my nose just stuck out of the water.
Then I look up, and guess who is looking down at me! And the rest
you saw with your own eyes. Who is *she*?"
"This," said Sam indignantly, "is Spiegel, nicknamed Gulible. She
was convinced by *Bilbo* *Baggins* when she was little that she was fat
and ugly. She's been an anorexic ever since." Spiegel looked at
Boromir with shy yet gleaming eyes. "And that Frodo didn't help much
either!" Boromir looked at her with sudden sympathy.
"Ugly? You're not ugly!"
"Yess..." There was a hesitant note in the thin girl's voice.
"Come on, girl. I'm partial to men myself, and shall not deny it;
but I know when a woman is pretty and when she is ugly. And you are
pretty."
The light dimmed in Spiegel's green eyes, but was not altogether
extinguished.
"Frodo was gay himself," said Sam, grabbing Frodo's camera and
tearing out the film. There was no need for it anymore.
"Was he now?" replied Boromir. "Well, an asshole is an asshole, no
matter his taste in holes!"

Two days later they emerged from the marshes. They were out of
hamburgers, for Boromir was a large man, recovering from a wound and an
illness, and Spiegel was eating much too, ballooning out towards a
normal size. This was land that was largely controlled by Sauron (whom
they wanted to avoid), but Gondor(tm)'s agents walked among the
Mordorian neon glitz, disguised as tourists. They were now the enemies
of the eldest son of the Steward, and would remain so even if Aragon
toppled Boromir's father from power. Accordingly Sam and Boromir didn't
dare show themselves, but sent Spiegel to do some shopping. By
nightfall they had a cold meal in a little dell. The ground was covered
in more than a foot of garbage thrown by careless tourists. After the
meal they started walking towards the Gates of Mordor, brightly lit by
megawatts of neonlights.
Spiegel walked between the two men, the tall Boromir and the
her-sized Sam. She was happy. For the first time since she was ten she
smiled and was happy. Sam thought her dazzling. She told them:
"Between you you have cured me of my anorexia."
"Glad to hear it, dear."
"Only one thing mars my happiness. Well, two things. One of you is
gay, and the other has a fiancée. I can't have neither of you." She
giggled.
Boromir sighed. "Well, it can't be helped. But you are a pretty
girl. You should have your pick of men, once we are in decent lands."
"I have never *been* to decent lands," she replied.

***************************************************************

I know that the death of Frodo has the appearance of a drastic change
in the plot. But it isn't really. I have merely replaced him with
Boromir. And the Boromir of the etext is (unless someone alters him
later) as dedicated to the quest of destroying the Ring as Frodo is in
the original text.
And besides, if someone wants to resurrect him, I can see at least
two easy ways: one is the singular toughness of hobbits and the
professional courtesy among litigators and loansharks. And perhaps
Boromir has a sword now broken a foot below the hilt, after his little
journey down the Rauros falls... as for the other method, even in the
original Gandalf was killed and then deus ex machinaed back into the
fray. In the etext, I have just dea ex machinaed Boromir back.

Corvus.


China Blue Wïzards Cult

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Dec 22, 2000, 9:52:16 PM12/22/00
to
/ I know that the death of Frodo has the appearance of a drastic change
/ in the plot. But it isn't really. I have merely replaced him with
/ Boromir. And the Boromir of the etext is (unless someone alters him
/ later) as dedicated to the quest of destroying the Ring as Frodo is in
/ the original text.

If this is to continue, I'm withdrawing from the project altogether.

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Robert Brady

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Dec 22, 2000, 10:21:56 PM12/22/00
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In rec.arts.books.tolkien Raven <jonlenn...@get2net.dk> wrote:
> And no, the rather unexpected turn of events that you will see is
> *not* my way of stopping further homosex between Sam and Frodo. When I
> got to the point where a somewhat less unexpected (and more obvious)
> thing happens, the idea just struck me...

Hahahahahahahaha!

Yes! A work of sheer, twisted, genius!

Hahahahahaha.

May I have first dibs on shooting anyone who says "Frodo Lives!"?

--
Robert

Prembone

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Dec 22, 2000, 10:32:49 PM12/22/00
to
In article <2OS06.318$UF3....@news.get2net.dk>,

"Raven" <jonlenn...@get2net.dk> wrote:
> So. Seems I lost a little tug-of-war with Prembone about Frodo's
> preferences. She established him as partial to males

I had my (plot-related) reasons, the chief reason being that it somehow
ties in with Sam's plans for the Revolution back in the Shire; how,
exactly, I don't know, but I was rather hoping that you subsequent
authors would invent the details. ;-) And now you've gone and killed
him off? Oh, no. Frodo must return! He's part of Sam's great mission
to Save the Shire! As JRRT said, Sam was the *real* hero of the
story. I figure that means Sam's Quest (the Revolution) is the *real*
quest of the story. This Quest for Mount Viagra is just laying the
groundwork for the *real* quest. At least, that's how it was looking
to me. You say you want a Revolution?

As for Gulible's anorexia...clever twist, though I'd rather they'd fed
her good, nourishing veggie burgers. ;-) But I guess that's not what
you find at neon-lit oases on the outskirts of Mordor.

Good job, all the way around. Between Gulible's anorexia, Sam's PTSD,
and Frodo's struggles with his sexual orientation, Middle-earth was
looking like one big therapy session in the making. ;-)

Well....it will be interesting to see what the others make of this.
But I don't think the story will really be quite the same if we don't
bring Frodo back and make him face the music back in the Shire.
Killing him off gave him an easy way out.

Oh, and you forgot one other "ex machina" option: The writer of the
story stubbornly rewrites Frodo back into the story ;-) with or without
Boromir remaining alive.

Prembone


--
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people,
it is true that most stupid people are conservative." - J.S. Mill

MythTakes: Tolkien Parody http://www.prembone.com/mythtakes/


Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/

Prembone

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Dec 22, 2000, 10:34:11 PM12/22/00
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In article <mlindanne-221...@c21.ppp.tsoft.com>,

mlin...@hotmail.com (China Blue Wïzards Cult) wrote:
> / I know that the death of Frodo has the appearance of a drastic
change
> / in the plot. But it isn't really. I have merely replaced him with
> / Boromir. And the Boromir of the etext is (unless someone alters him
> / later) as dedicated to the quest of destroying the Ring as Frodo is
in
> / the original text.
>
> If this is to continue, I'm withdrawing from the project altogether.

Nonsense. Just write Frodo back in. If deus ex machina was good
enough for Tolkien, it's good enough for us!

Robert Brady

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Dec 22, 2000, 10:46:48 PM12/22/00
to
In rec.arts.books.tolkien China Blue Wïzards Cult <mlin...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> If this is to continue, I'm withdrawing from the project altogether.

Might I enquire why?

--
Robert

Menelvagor

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Dec 23, 2000, 1:11:55 AM12/23/00
to
In article <2OS06.318$UF3....@news.get2net.dk>,
"Raven" <jonlenn...@get2net.dk> wrote:
<snip>

This one was hysterical, especially everything related to Gullible (who
is apparently henceforth spelt with only one "l," heaven knows
why ...), her anorexia, her vamping Sam, etc.

We never really developed a back story for Gullible back when she was a
he; the bits about Gollum in the Shadow of the Past and the Council of
Elrond seem to have been left out. Apparently she never had the Ring?

> I know that the death of Frodo has the appearance of a drastic
change
> in the plot. But it isn't really.

I think it rather is ... But, 1.Now the changes I was contemplating IF
I got VI.1 seem relatively tame:-], and 2.as you point out:

I have merely replaced him with
> Boromir. And the Boromir of the etext is (unless someone alters him
> later) as dedicated to the quest of destroying the Ring as Frodo is in
> the original text.

What will happen when Boromir meets Faramir? And who has that
chapter? Whoever does, please make it GOOD!

> And besides, if someone wants to resurrect him, I can see at least
> two easy ways: one is the singular toughness of hobbits and the
> professional courtesy among litigators and loansharks.

Doesn't Frodo have a mithril coat, which he ... er, received from
Bilbo?

>as for the other method, even in the
> original Gandalf was killed and then deus ex machinaed back into the
> fray. In the etext, I have just dea ex machinaed Boromir back.

Aruman is going to have to come back *eventually*, no?; probably in
Book VI sometime.
--
Count Menelvagor the Slayer of Killerbytes, Editor of Sauron's Dairy,
and Lord High Enervator of the Empire of Psot, Balrog Dragon Baritone,
etc., etc., and All That Other Struff

Balrog sum; Balrogani nihil alienum a me puto.

Prembone

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Dec 23, 2000, 6:46:13 AM12/23/00
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In article <921fn9$j71$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

Menelvagor <gol...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> In article <2OS06.318$UF3....@news.get2net.dk>,
> "Raven" <jonlenn...@get2net.dk> wrote:
> <snip>
>
> This one was hysterical, especially everything related to Gullible
(who
> is apparently henceforth spelt with only one "l," heaven knows
> why ...)

That's how the name was spelled by whoever first came up with it;
whether this was a deliberate choice, or simply indicates that they
can't spell, I cannot say. But with the exception of (IIRC) one
contributor who apparently was bothered by the misspelling, everyone's
been spelling it "Gulible," and I went with that.

> > I know that the death of Frodo has the appearance of a drastic
> change
> > in the plot. But it isn't really.
>
> I think it rather is ...

Same here. While I love the twist of reintroducing Boromir (can't have
too many deus ex machina resurrections!) I really don't see Boromir as
a true replacement for Frodo. But maybe future contributors will help
us to see this?

I'll also use this post to point out something I forgot to mention
before: I had hoped that y'all would catch on to how I had set up Sam
to be sort of a love-hate conflicted "Smeagol" figure, torn between his
revolutionary motives and class-oppression resentment on the one hand,
and his having "gone and fallen in love with Frodo" on the other. This
could have (and possibly still could, with a little invocation of
d.e.m.) been an interesting conflict to work with as the journey drew
nearer to Mordor and Nurnenshire.

None of which should detract from the fact that I enjoyed Jon's
chapter. ;-) I only wish people could read my mind. Then again, maybe
I don't...

Prembone

--
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people,
it is true that most stupid people are conservative." - J.S. Mill

MythTakes: Tolkien Parody http://www.prembone.com/mythtakes/

China Blue Wïzards Cult

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 7:02:56 AM12/23/00
to
/ Same here. While I love the twist of reintroducing Boromir (can't have
/ too many deus ex machina resurrections!) I really don't see Boromir as
/ a true replacement for Frodo. But maybe future contributors will help
/ us to see this?

The only really control in Usenet is boycott. Fine, I'm withdrawing my
three chapters and Appendix F. Do what you want.

Aris Katsaris

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 8:42:23 AM12/23/00
to

Raven <jonlenn...@get2net.dk> wrote in message
news:2OS06.318$UF3....@news.get2net.dk...

> So. Seems I lost a little tug-of-war with Prembone about Frodo's
> preferences. She established him as partial to males, though he
> discovered this himself only on the Barrow-downs... I broadened his
> tastes by letting him seduce Elf-girls in Rivendell with the Ring, and
> now it appears that he was merely faking. No bisexual there.

<g>
I just wish that both of you had understood that your fixation on whether
he's homosexual or heterosexual or any of the infinite variations
inbetween is a joke that has gone really old...

> I know that the death of Frodo has the appearance of a drastic change
> in the plot. But it isn't really.

Yes it is. Dammit, I loved most of the rest of your chapter but you've just
destroyed *every* plan of every writer after you whose chapter included
Frodo.

So, *please*, *please*, the next writer please ressurect Frodo. The e-text
needs
him back. Killing him this soon simply goes against the rules we've set to
help everyone work together.

Aris Katsaris

Aris Katsaris

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 8:49:00 AM12/23/00
to

Menelvagor <gol...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:921fn9$j71$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> In article <2OS06.318$UF3....@news.get2net.dk>,
> "Raven" <jonlenn...@get2net.dk> wrote:
> I have merely replaced him with
> > Boromir. And the Boromir of the etext is (unless someone alters him
> > later) as dedicated to the quest of destroying the Ring as Frodo is in
> > the original text.
>
> What will happen when Boromir meets Faramir? And who has that
> chapter? Whoever does, please make it GOOD!

I have "The Window on the West" with the long Faramir-Frodo discussion.
But the thing is that it *is* a Faramir and Frodo discussion and without
Frodo I think it be rather way too difficult to make it a funny chapter.

Please, people ressurect Frodo! Keep Boromir alive if you want to, but
we *have* to have Frodo...

> >as for the other method, even in the
> > original Gandalf was killed and then deus ex machinaed back into the
> > fray. In the etext, I have just dea ex machinaed Boromir back.
>
> Aruman is going to have to come back *eventually*, no?; probably in
> Book VI sometime.

I think O.Sharp asked us that we don't bring Aruman back, but I suppose
it all depends on the individual writers...

Aris Katsaris


John Elliott

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 10:03:44 AM12/23/00
to
Menelvagor <gol...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> And besides, if someone wants to resurrect him, I can see at least
>> two easy ways: one is the singular toughness of hobbits and the
>> professional courtesy among litigators and loansharks.

And "Don Celeborno" gives us a third. Someone would have to be quite
quick about erecting the statue, though.

>Doesn't Frodo have a mithril coat, which he ... er, received from
>Bilbo?

Not mithril. Tin. And cursed with ill-luck, if I recall correctly.

>Aruman is going to have to come back *eventually*, no?; probably in
>Book VI sometime.

I'd favour not resurrecting him until they reach Bag End itself. That
way he can keep his entrance line "... and so I am here to welcome you home."
and give everyone even more of a surprise than in the original.

--
------------- http://www.seasip.demon.co.uk/index.html --------------------
John Elliott |Donde escono quei vortici di fuoco pien d'orror?
| - DON BOROMIRO, on Mount Doom
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Raven

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 2:01:41 PM12/23/00
to
"China Blue Wïzards Cult" <mlin...@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:mlindanne-221...@c21.ppp.tsoft.com...

> If this is to continue, I'm withdrawing from the project altogether.

Ah. So it was I who drove out the men from Umbar. Muahahaha!

Wu[1] Ya[1].


Raven

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 2:13:25 PM12/23/00
to
"Robert Brady" <rwb...@zepler.org> skrev i en meddelelse
news:ko5129...@janus.arrow...

> May I have first dibs on shooting anyone who says "Frodo Lives!"?

Frodo lives...

Hrafn.


Raven

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 3:27:43 PM12/23/00
to
"Aris Katsaris" <kats...@otenet.gr> skrev i en meddelelse
news:922a7k$f2o$1...@usenet.otenet.gr...

> > I know that the death of Frodo has the appearance of a drastic
> > change in the plot. But it isn't really.

> Yes it is. Dammit, I loved most of the rest of your chapter but you've
> just destroyed *every* plan of every writer after you whose
> chapter included Frodo.

Plan? Well, I never even began to make any outlines for any of my
chapters until the previous chapter was in... the Boromir as he now
appears in the etext is closer in character to the Frodo as he is in the
original than is the Frodo of the etext. You can work Frodo back in, or
you can use Boromir, or you can work a transformed Frodo back in, or you
can go with a Boromir/Frodo split personality --- perhaps the Boromir
that is now bearing the Ring will prove to be, in a weird way, Frodo
transformed into a morally better person. Someone combining Celtic
myth, "The Voyage of the Dawn Treader" and the Hitchhiker trilogy could
pull that off...
When I came to the place, already planned, where Boromir rises out of
the water and grabs Frodo, I changed my mind about Boromir sparing him
in the end: Boromir had already been moments away from killing him, and
that was before Frodo put Sting in him. Why should Boromir be as
merciful *this* time? And I wanted to jolt you a little... but in a
text as wacky as this, reviving him should be easy. I myself pointed
out a few ways in the afterword to the chapter.

> So, *please*, *please*, the next writer please ressurect Frodo. The
> e-text needs him back. Killing him this soon simply goes against the
> rules we've set to help everyone work together.

Like I said in the little afterword, bringing him back should be
fairly easy. It depends on the other writers. So, Tamim, what's it
gonna be? :-)

Korax.


Raven

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 3:29:09 PM12/23/00
to
"Prembone" <prem...@my-deja.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:9216d2$cqe$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> Oh, and you forgot one other "ex machina" option: The writer of the
> story stubbornly rewrites Frodo back into the story ;-) with or
> without Boromir remaining alive.

There may be tonnes of ways in which to write Frodo back into the
story. We could start a list:

1: Boromir's sword was broken, and Frodo was only wounded. The
"alligators" were really litigators, and professional courtesy demands
that they don't eat someone as nasty as Frodo is - according to some of
the chapters: loanshark, traitor, slavemaster, all-round snobbish git.
An eagle picks him up and flies him to Ithilien, but leaves in such a
hurry that they don't get to ask it to fly the Ringbearer to Mount
Viagra.

2: One of the later writers refers to Prembone as someone beating the
author with a skillet to bring Frodo back. It worked for Boromir.

3: Someone who has read "Watership Down" lets Lucy, as large compared to
Frodo as a little girl is to a rabbit, come wading through the marshes.
She finds Frodo, sorely wounded and in the jaws of an alligator, but
still alive...

4: When Boromir attacked Frodo, he didn't actually kill him but absorbed
him. Boromir now has a very severe split personality, so much so that
he can even change physical appearance according to which persona he is
at the moment.

Continue? :-) :-) ;-)


Raven

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 3:31:14 PM12/23/00
to
"Menelvagor" <gol...@my-deja.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:921fn9$j71$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> We never really developed a back story for Gullible back when she was
> a he; the bits about Gollum in the Shadow of the Past and the Council
> of Elrond seem to have been left out. Apparently she never had the
> Ring?

Perhaps she did, but being ten years old had no uses for it, at least
not its seductive powers... and even as nasty as Bilbo is, there was at
least one thing he wouldn't do to a child of ten. So instead he stole
it from her and mocked her.

> I think it rather is ... But, 1.Now the changes I was contemplating IF
> I got VI.1 seem relatively tame:-], and 2.as you point out:

VI,1? I'm jockeying for VI, 2. :-) And boy will there be a change
if I get that chapter - but not one as difficult to get back on track
for chapter 3 as what I perpetrated with IV, 2! :-)

> What will happen when Boromir meets Faramir? And who has that
> chapter? Whoever does, please make it GOOD!

The learned Dr. Faramir, yes. Perhaps Boromir can persuade his
academic younger brother to join in the revolution. Then Sam can bring
revolution in Sűzat, and Boromir and Faramir can do the same in
Gondor(tm).

> Doesn't Frodo have a mithril coat, which he ... er, received from
> Bilbo?

I don't remember whether he cast it away after it turned out that it
was worse than worthless...

> > as for the other method, even in the
> > original Gandalf was killed and then deus ex machinaed back into the
> > fray. In the etext, I have just dea ex machinaed Boromir back.

> Aruman is going to have to come back *eventually*, no?; probably in
> Book VI sometime.

Well, his role can easily be assumed by Gandalf.
Noticing whom I am responding to, I got another idea for resurrecting
Frodo: you write some entries in Sauron's diary about picking up Frodo
in the marshes and healing him in a Mordor hospital --- and guess who
meets Boromir, Sam and Spiegel at the Crossroads. But perhaps you
should whisper together with the authors of the next few chapters.

Crú.


Aris Katsaris

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 5:50:35 PM12/23/00
to

Aris Katsaris <kats...@otenet.gr> wrote in message
news:922a7k$f2o$1...@usenet.otenet.gr...

>
> Yes it is. Dammit, I loved most of the rest of your chapter but you've
just
> destroyed *every* plan of every writer after you whose chapter included
> Frodo.
>
> So, *please*, *please*, the next writer please ressurect Frodo. The e-text
> needs
> him back. Killing him this soon simply goes against the rules we've set to
> help everyone work together.

Even if nobody resurrects him before my own chapter, I found a way to
bring him back myself... so I take back my earlier words - If anyone of you
feels like resurrecting him, please do so by all means, if not I'll simply
do it
myself....

Okay, thanks, that's all. I just wanted to take back my earlier panicky
words.

Aris Katsaris

Aris Katsaris

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 5:56:40 PM12/23/00
to

China Blue Wïzards Cult <mlin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mlindanne-231...@c169.ppp.tsoft.com...

> / Same here. While I love the twist of reintroducing Boromir (can't have
> / too many deus ex machina resurrections!) I really don't see Boromir as
> / a true replacement for Frodo. But maybe future contributors will help
> / us to see this?
>
> The only really control in Usenet is boycott. Fine, I'm withdrawing my
> three chapters and Appendix F. Do what you want.

Oh, you don't need to do that. If noone before my chapter resurrects Frodo,
I'll just do it myself.

Aris Katsaris


Menelvagor

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 6:25:07 PM12/23/00
to
In article <9223a5$10$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Prembone <prem...@my-deja.com> wrote:
<sneep>

> Same here. While I love the twist of reintroducing Boromir (can't
have
> too many deus ex machina resurrections!) I really don't see Boromir as
> a true replacement for Frodo. But maybe future contributors will help
> us to see this?
>

I'm sure Frodo will be back, probably quite soon. If I remember
aright, the next one is one of the "new" chapters; quite a lot could
happen there.

> I'll also use this post to point out something I forgot to mention
> before: I had hoped that y'all would catch on to how I had set up Sam
> to be sort of a love-hate conflicted "Smeagol" figure, torn between
his
> revolutionary motives and class-oppression resentment on the one hand,
> and his having "gone and fallen in love with Frodo" on the other.
This
> could have (and possibly still could, with a little invocation of
> d.e.m.) been an interesting conflict to work with as the journey drew
> nearer to Mordor and Nurnenshire.

Conflict is a good idea; I don't know about Sam being in love with
Frood, although that's one way of doing it -- the possibilites are
endless.

> None of which should detract from the fact that I enjoyed Jon's
> chapter. ;-)

Yes, I loved the Gulible stuff ...

> --
> "Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people,
> it is true that most stupid people are conservative." - J.S. Mill
>
> MythTakes: Tolkien Parody http://www.prembone.com/mythtakes/
>
> Sent via Deja.com
> http://www.deja.com/
>

--


Count Menelvagor the Slayer of Killerbytes, Editor of Sauron's Dairy,
and Lord High Enervator of the Empire of Psot, Balrog Dragon Baritone,
etc., etc., and All That Other Struff

Balrog sum; Balrogani nihil alienum a me puto.

Menelvagor

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 6:31:10 PM12/23/00
to
In article <922ak0$f8c$1...@usenet.otenet.gr>,
"Aris Katsaris" <kats...@otenet.gr> wrote:
<sneep>

> I have "The Window on the West" with the long Faramir-Frodo
discussion.
> But the thing is that it *is* a Faramir and Frodo discussion and
without
> Frodo I think it be rather way too difficult to make it a funny
chapter.
>
> Please, people ressurect Frodo! Keep Boromir alive if you want to, but
> we *have* to have Frodo...
>

Absolutely. He's an essential character.

<snip>

> I think O.Sharp asked us that we don't bring Aruman back, but I
suppose
> it all depends on the individual writers...

As I recall, he wanted us to avoid bringing him back too soon; it seems
to me it wd be OK to bring him back, say, in the second half of Book
VI; but as you say, it probably depends on who's writing. (I still
don't know which chapter I have, nayways, although I have one or two
ideas for VI.1 or 2 ...

Menelvagor

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 6:35:45 PM12/23/00
to
In article <977583996.24605.0...@news.demon.co.uk>,
j...@seasip.demon.co.uk (John Elliott) wrote:
<sneep>

> I'd favour not resurrecting him until they reach Bag End itself.
That
> way he can keep his entrance line "... and so I am here to welcome
you home."
> and give everyone even more of a surprise than in the original.

I would go with that. I don't want Aruman back any time *soon*. As
Mr. Sharp says, we need a leetle bit of suspense (other than wondering
what sexual orientation everyone is ...)

|Donde escono quei vortici di fuoco pien d'orror?
> | - DON BOROMIRO, on Mount
Doom

Don Frodone, a cenar teco m'invitasti, e son venuto! -- Don Arumano at
Bag End.

Menelvagor

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 6:43:55 PM12/23/00
to
In article <r_716.195$cB4....@news.get2net.dk>,
"Raven" <jonlenn...@get2net.dk> wrote:

<sneep>

> Perhaps she did, but being ten years old had no uses for it, at
least
> not its seductive powers... and even as nasty as Bilbo is, there was
at
> least one thing he wouldn't do to a child of ten. So instead he stole
> it from her and mocked her.
>

Ah, so she's not a thousand years old in this version ... 'S cool...

> > I think it rather is ... But, 1.Now the changes I was contemplating
IF
> > I got VI.1 seem relatively tame:-], and 2.as you point out:

> VI,1? I'm jockeying for VI, 2. :-)

<sneep>

Weel, I wrote to Mr. Sharp about VI.1 a while ago, but he hasn't had
time to answer yet. He's a busy guy, persecvuted on all sides by e-
text crazies ...

<sneepo>

> The learned Dr. Faramir, yes. Perhaps Boromir can persuade his
> academic younger brother to join in the revolution. Then Sam can
bring
> revolution in Sűzat, and Boromir and Faramir can do the same in
> Gondor(tm).
>

Isn't that Whôzat, as per your chapter? Faramir could be a radical
chic deconstructionist type ... but we'll have to see what Katzaris
(whom I hope I spelled right) has in store ...

<snnep>

> Well, his role can easily be assumed by Gandalf.

Gandalf killed Aruman ...

> Noticing whom I am responding to, I got another idea for
resurrecting
> Frodo: you write some entries in Sauron's diary about picking up Frodo
> in the marshes and healing him in a Mordor hospital --- and guess who
> meets Boromir, Sam and Spiegel at the Crossroads. But perhaps you
> should whisper together with the authors of the next few chapters.
>

Yes, we'll have to see what happens in the "new" chapter ... the e-t.
is moving along nice anbd briskly.

China Blue Wïzards Cult

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 7:08:46 PM12/23/00
to
/ Oh, you don't need to do that. If noone before my chapter resurrects Frodo,
/ I'll just do it myself.

It is shifting from a confused but cooperative enterprise to a how can I
screw the next authour game. I don't want to play. If I have enough disc
space at tsoft, I may put up an Avignon site.

Robert Brady

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 6:52:16 PM12/23/00
to
In rec.arts.books.tolkien Aris Katsaris <kats...@otenet.gr> wrote:
>Even if nobody resurrects him before my own chapter, I found a way to
>bring him back myself... so I take back my earlier words - If anyone of you
>feels like resurrecting him, please do so by all means, if not I'll simply
>do it
>myself....

"Frodo the White"?

--
Robert

Raven

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 8:21:19 PM12/23/00
to
"Menelvagor" <gol...@my-deja.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:923dbr$stf$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> > Well, his role can easily be assumed by Gandalf.

> Gandalf killed Aruman ...
Yes. Perhaps Aruman can come back from Aman and defeat Gandalf in a
lengthy battle in the middle of Hobbiton, with thunderbolt-shooting
staffs...

Brân.


Raven

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 8:36:08 PM12/23/00
to
"China Blue Wïzards Cult" <mlin...@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:mlindanne-231...@c182.ppp.tsoft.com...

> It is shifting from a confused but cooperative enterprise to a how can
> I screw the next authour game. I don't want to play. If I have enough
> disc space at tsoft, I may put up an Avignon site.

:-) And this from the self-confessed etext-corsair who has inserted
chapters way ahead of the other chapters. :-)
Besides, you don't know my motives for perpetrating what I did.
And besides that, if you have no idea of how to resurrect Frodo, then
you are certainly less imaginative than you have indicated in your own
fiction previously.
And oh, I almost forgot: muahahahahaha!!!

Corb.


Robert Brady

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 8:59:22 PM12/23/00
to
In rec.arts.books.tolkien Raven <jonlenn...@get2net.dk> wrote:
> Yes. Perhaps Aruman can come back from Aman and defeat Gandalf in a
>lengthy battle in the middle of Hobbiton, with thunderbolt-shooting
>staffs...

Then tragically he falls from a tall tower onto a spike?

--
Robert

Aris Katsaris

unread,
Dec 23, 2000, 9:31:30 PM12/23/00
to

China Blue Wïzards Cult <mlin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:mlindanne-231...@c182.ppp.tsoft.com...

> / Oh, you don't need to do that. If noone before my chapter resurrects
Frodo,
> / I'll just do it myself.
>
> It is shifting from a confused but cooperative enterprise to a how can I
> screw the next authour game. I don't want to play.

I think you are judging the various writers rather harshly. I'd accuse only
one writer of arrogantly ignoring continuity, in the early Book 3... all the
rest are simply writing what they think is best/funniest/etc. Okay I also
feel that killing Frodo was a bad move, but it's as reversible as Morrie
throwing Pipsqueak into that well back in Moria...

I don't think there was any malicious intent as you seem to believe...
And since you do write great chapters, I'd like you to remain in the
e-text project.

Aris Katsaris

Menelvagor

unread,
Dec 24, 2000, 1:11:34 AM12/24/00
to
In article <Nsc16.364$cB4....@news.get2net.dk>,
"Raven" <jonlenn...@get2net.dk> wrote:

<s>


> Yes. Perhaps Aruman can come back from Aman and defeat Gandalf in
a
> lengthy battle in the middle of Hobbiton, with thunderbolt-shooting
> staffs...

They can use the SIKRIT weapon: alt.flame.


--
Count Menelvagor the Slayer of Killerbytes, Editor of Sauron's Dairy,
and Lord High Enervator of the Empire of Psot, Balrog Dragon Baritone,
etc., etc., and All That Other Struff

Or perhaps one of them has buddies on the Supreme Court...

O. Sharp

unread,
Dec 25, 2000, 1:29:54 AM12/25/00
to
Uhm.

_This_ is kind of a new situation. :)

I've tried to avoid discussions about content (except for my _own_
content), since everyone has varying tastes, and it's nice that the
E-Text reflects that... but since this particular content choice is a
bit further reaching in its ramifications, I'll send off an e-mail to
the Book IV authors who are directly affected to see if Frodo's death
will cause undue consternation. Since Mr. Katsaris has stated he will
be bringing Frodo back in Chapter 6 if necessary, I'll be looking most
strongly towards its effects on chapters 3, 4 and 5.

For what it's worth, I thought Boromir's motives were quite good and his
appearance and actions were both dramatic and plausible. My main question
at this point isn't artistic; I found it a very likable chapter. Rather,
my main concern is whether it will screw everyone else. :) :) Please
remain calm in the meantime until I've had a chance to send a few e-mails
and read a few replies.

In the meantime, if everyone would relax and have a nice leisurely
Christmas, it would do me some good as well. :) :) :)

-------------------------------------------------------------------
o...@speakeasy.org ...Is _this_ why people find holidays so
stressful? :)

David Sulger

unread,
Dec 25, 2000, 12:04:46 PM12/25/00
to
In article <923n9n$24m$1...@usenet.otenet.gr>,

"Aris Katsaris" <kats...@otenet.gr> wrote:
>
> Okay I also feel that killing Frodo was a bad move, but it's as
> reversible as Morrie throwing Pipsqueak into that well back in
> Moria...
>
Yes, but the author who threw him into the pit also resolved the
situation in a later chapter. This killing of Frodo leaves everything
up to later writers as how to deal with the situation. So it's not
quite the same thing.

--Dave

Send e-mail to ds50.geo at yahoo.com

David Sulger

unread,
Dec 25, 2000, 12:09:58 PM12/25/00
to
In article <mlindanne-231...@c182.ppp.tsoft.com>,

mlin...@hotmail.com (China Blue Wïzards Cult) wrote:
>
> It is shifting from a confused but cooperative enterprise to a how
> can I screw the next authour game.

I have to agree. There's been an unfortunate attitude from some
writers to introduce plot changes to confuse later writers, rather than
out of humor. I think this has added some level of difficulty; we've
long left the lighter chpaters of LotR behind, and IMO, the more
serious chapters aren't as easy to make funny. Considering that each
new chapter seems to move the story in yet another direction, this
attitude really doesn't seem to help

--Dave

Send e-mail to ds50.geo at yahoo.com

P.S. I'm still sticking with the project though.

Jim

unread,
Dec 25, 2000, 9:09:19 PM12/25/00
to

Aris Katsaris <kats...@otenet.gr> wrote in message
news:922ak0$f8c$1...@usenet.otenet.gr...

>
> Menelvagor <gol...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:921fn9$j71$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > In article <2OS06.318$UF3....@news.get2net.dk>,
> > "Raven" <jonlenn...@get2net.dk> wrote:

> > What will happen when Boromir meets Faramir? And who has that
> > chapter? Whoever does, please make it GOOD!

I have 'Of Turds and Sewer Dwelling Rabis' and I guess this is where
Boromir/Faramir meeting would first occur.
I will try my best to make it funny but apologize in advance should I fail
:)
Boromir beeing alive is pleasing for me...the more characters the more scope
for humour.
One thing I have planned will hopefully raise a few eyebrows without
outrage...but don't expect much.

> I have "The Window on the West" with the long Faramir-Frodo discussion.
> But the thing is that it *is* a Faramir and Frodo discussion and without
> Frodo I think it be rather way too difficult to make it a funny chapter.
>
> Please, people ressurect Frodo! Keep Boromir alive if you want to, but
> we *have* to have Frodo...

Well I dislike the pruning of characters in sections where they are short on
the ground, so I will resurect him if needs be at the start of my chapter.

Jim D


Menelvagor

unread,
Dec 26, 2000, 1:14:54 AM12/26/00
to
In article <h_L16.14062$ca6.1...@news6-win.server.ntlworld.com>,
"Jim" <james...@ntlworld.com> wrote:

<zsneeppp>

> I have 'Of Turds and Sewer Dwelling Rabis' and I guess this is where
> Boromir/Faramir meeting would first occur.

Correcto...

> I will try my best to make it funny but apologize in advance should I
fail
> :)
> Boromir beeing alive is pleasing for me...the more characters the
more scope
> for humour.

Yesssz, keeping Boromir (tm) alive increases the possibilites for
conflict and confusion ... F & B can be rather chagrined to meet up...
If I were doing Faramir, I think I would try to make him very Derrida.


<s>

> Well I dislike the pruning of characters in sections where they are
short on
> the ground, so I will resurect him if needs be at the start of my
chapter.

I heard that the Superman comics killed off Superman and then brought
him back; methinks Frodo will be back prontissimo... Is 'The Black
Gate is Closed" the next chapter? or "The Pugilist"?


--
Count Menelvagor the Slayer of Killerbytes, Editor of Sauron's Dairy,
and Lord High Enervator of the Empire of Psot, Balrog Dragon Baritone,
etc., etc., and All That Other Struff

Balrog sum; Balrogani nihil alienum a me puto.


Prembone

unread,
Dec 27, 2000, 11:32:52 AM12/27/00
to
In article <mlindanne-231...@c182.ppp.tsoft.com>,
mlin...@hotmail.com (China Blue Wïzards Cult) wrote:

> It is shifting from a confused but cooperative enterprise to a how
> can I screw the next authour game.

No, it's behaving exactly as any good tandem story does: With each
author building on the previous authors, wrestling mightily to twist
what needs twisting to write what *we* want to write (buhwahahaha!) in
our own chapters, and, most important of all, setting up some material
for the following authors "to work with," a challenge of, "O.K., here's
something; let's see what you can do with it!"

It's not "screwing," it's creative challenge. I rose to the occasion
of O. Sharp's twist at the end of the last chapter of Book II, and
Raven rose to the occasion of my new twists (his exposition of
Gulible's backstory deserves a Nobel for Literature...well, maybe), and
I really don't think that anyone in this group will have difficulty
getting around a minor matter of Frodo being killed off. Of *course*
he has to come back; for one thing, we're not supposed to kill off the
major characters permanently. Meanwhile, now that the shock's worn
off, I find it a rather brilliantly demented twist.

> I don't want to play.

Well, waaah.

Prembone


--
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people,
it is true that most stupid people are conservative." - J.S. Mill

MythTakes: Tolkien Parody http://www.prembone.com/mythtakes/

David Sulger

unread,
Dec 27, 2000, 1:34:06 PM12/27/00
to
In article <92d5jk$fja$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

Prembone <prem...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> No, it's behaving exactly as any good tandem story does: With each
> author building on the previous authors, wrestling mightily to twist
> what needs twisting to write what *we* want to write (buhwahahaha!) in
> our own chapters, and, most important of all, setting up some material
> for the following authors "to work with," a challenge of, "O.K.,
> here's something; let's see what you can do with it!"

But OTOH, introducing too many new things leaves a lot of loose ends to
be tied up at the end of the story.

--Dave

Send e-mail to ds50.geo at yahoo.com

Raven

unread,
Dec 27, 2000, 3:44:20 PM12/27/00
to
"O. Sharp" <o...@speakeasy.org> skrev i en meddelelse
news:CPB16.170008$DG3.3...@news2.giganews.com...

> Since Mr. Katsaris has stated he will
> be bringing Frodo back in Chapter 6 if necessary, I'll be looking most
> strongly towards its effects on chapters 3, 4 and 5.

I can make a small amendment to my chapter, if the other participants
want me to. Something like the following, in cursive and inserted just
before the last section of the chapter:

On a small islet in a mere in the Marshes sat a small forlorn figure.
He was bleeding from many puncture wounds, and his face was streaked
with tears; but they were dry now. Around him in the water he was
surrounded by many litigators. They were gloating and menacing him with
wide open jaws studded with teeth, and their lawbooks and sharp pencils
were poised for assault.
The largest and meanest litigator decided that the play had lasted
long enough. It rushed forward and grabbed the figure in its jaws. It
squeezed. The little figure squealed, and then squealed again but
weaker.
Suddenly a large figure in a nightgown came wading swiftly through
the marshes. She was easily twenty feet tall. She called out sharply:
"Lit! Lit! Wha' you got?"
At the sound of her voice the litigators looked up for a moment and
then immediately looked back at their prey. 'T'weren't no rat, though;
't'was a humanoid figger of smaller size, layin' between the horrible
teeth of the biggest litigator. It looked proper bad. Kicking out an'
all. Then it squealed again.
She waded closer. "Git out, you rascal!" she said. "Crool thing!
Let'n alone!"
She cuffed the litigator, which tried to hit her with its briefcase.
She raised her hand again and it objected, but dropped its prey and ran
a few feet and stopped, looking back in sulky rage. The tall figure in
the nightgown picked up the bleeding figure. It struggled a moment and
then held itself tense in her firm grip.
"'Old still!" said she. "I ain't goin' 'urthcer!"
Then she began wading southwards. The little figure relaxed, sensing
possibly that for the first time in its life, someone strong and
powerful genuinely cared for it.

Anyone who has read "Watership Down" should recognize the above
passage. Anyone who hasn't, well, read it dammit! I leave the identity
of the dea ex machina to later writers. The actual Lucy out of
Nuthanger Farm, Miniwethil, one of Sauron's illegitimate children by one
of his abandoned mistresses, whatever.

If I insert this passage, it will not bring Frodo back to Sam and
Spiegel, but it will establish him as alive. Someone else will have to
reintroduce him to the story proper. Preferrably after Boromir has
noticed that his sword is broken an inch below the hilt and probably has
been since he fell down the Rauros. "So *that* was why the sword felt
so curiously light when I stabbed the little git!"

Jon L. Beck.


Prembone

unread,
Dec 27, 2000, 5:18:40 PM12/27/00
to
In article <92dcmu$lec$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,

David Sulger <or...@my-deja.com> wrote:
> But OTOH, introducing too many new things leaves a lot of loose ends
> to be tied up at the end of the story.

Or left dangling, as the case may be. Elton only knows what's going to
happen to the Screwing of the Shire.

Prembone


--
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people,
it is true that most stupid people are conservative." - J.S. Mill

MythTakes: Tolkien Parody http://www.prembone.com/mythtakes/

Prembone

unread,
Dec 27, 2000, 5:22:55 PM12/27/00
to
In article <mxs26.233$J11....@news.get2net.dk>,
"Raven" <jonlenn...@get2net.dk> wrote:

> I can make a small amendment to my chapter, if the other
> participants want me to. Something like the following, in cursive
> and inserted just before the last section of the chapter:

[snip]

It's a nice bit, but honestly, I don't think that it's at all NECESSARY
in order to keep Frodo "really alive" (or resurrected, as the case may
be). Fer cryin' out loud, people, use your IMAGINATIONS!!! Deus ex
machina, baby, deus ex machina...

And the more absurd, the better.

Prembone


--
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people,
it is true that most stupid people are conservative." - J.S. Mill

MythTakes: Tolkien Parody http://www.prembone.com/mythtakes/

Raven

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Dec 28, 2000, 3:35:52 PM12/28/00
to
"Prembone" <prem...@my-deja.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:92dq3o$182$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> > I can make a small amendment to my chapter, if the other
> > participants want me to. Something like the following, in cursive
> > and inserted just before the last section of the chapter:

> It's a nice bit, but honestly, I don't think that it's at all


> NECESSARY in order to keep Frodo "really alive" (or
> resurrected, as the case may be). Fer cryin' out loud,
> people, use your IMAGINATIONS!!! Deus ex machina,
> baby, deus ex machina...

The problem I saw was that several people seemed to think that Frodo
was dead for good, incapable of being resurrected or established as not
having been killed at all. And none wanted to contemplate an etext
where Boromir actually did take Frodo's place for the rest of the story,
which was a possibility that I opened. That would not have been beyond
*my* sense of humour --- perhaps I'm more absurd than even you,
Prembone, think desirable. :-)

Jon L. Beck.


Prembone

unread,
Dec 28, 2000, 10:27:25 PM12/28/00
to
In article <CvN26.380$CW1....@news.get2net.dk>,
"Raven" <jonlenn...@get2net.dk> wrote:

> The problem I saw was that several people seemed to think that
> Frodo was dead for good, incapable of being resurrected or
> established as not having been killed at all.

I understand. I was simply pointing out that you shouldn't *need* to
spell out the obvious in a project like this, especially since the
Authorized Version of The Sacred Text resorts to more resurrections
than a D & D campaign, and *especially* since you yourself invoked a
perfectly suitable device in your "storywriter and his wife" scenario,
a device which could just as easily be used to bring Frodo *back*.

> And none wanted to contemplate an etext where Boromir actually did
> take Frodo's place for the rest of the story, which was a possibility
> that I opened.

While I like what you did with Boromir (right down to his offhand
comment about, "Why, I happen to prefer men myself, but..."), and have
no objections to keeping him in the story, he will never *be* Frodo,
and cannot really *replace* Frodo.

> That would not have been beyond *my* sense of humour --- perhaps I'm
> more absurd than even you, Prembone, think desirable. :-)

No, I'm just far more attached to Frodo than you are. ;-)

Prembone

--
The Elton John Worship Page eltonworship.virtualave.net/

Raven

unread,
Dec 29, 2000, 2:10:31 PM12/29/00
to
"Prembone" <prem...@my-deja.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:92h0an$ggd$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> I understand. I was simply pointing out that you shouldn't *need* to
> spell out the obvious in a project like this, especially since the
> Authorized Version of The Sacred Text resorts to more resurrections
> than a D & D campaign, and *especially* since you yourself invoked a
> perfectly suitable device in your "storywriter and his wife" scenario,
> a device which could just as easily be used to bring Frodo *back*.

Yes... "storywriter and his kid" next time? "Storywriter and his
tapeworm"? Possibilities are endless, aren't they? "Storywriter and
the rest of the etext crew"? The Professor's ghost tapping his foot?
If someone wants to put something into cursive about the Professor
returning from the dead for a few moments to pluck the feathers off a
certain facetious raven, just before returning Frodo to the story, I
shan't feel insulted --- would make a nice scene if the etext were an
animated movie, of course: the stern Professor, holding a frightened
raven by the neck with one hand, plucking the feathers off it one by one
with the other.

> While I like what you did with Boromir (right down to his offhand
> comment about, "Why, I happen to prefer men myself, but..."), and have
> no objections to keeping him in the story, he will never *be* Frodo,
> and cannot really *replace* Frodo.

But the Frodo of the etext, and all the other characters, are quite
different from the ones in the original. Boromir will never *be* Frodo?
But *Frodo* ain't Frodo!

Kaaren.


Prembone

unread,
Dec 29, 2000, 10:38:14 PM12/29/00
to
In article <Qw636.392$dR2....@news.get2net.dk>,

"Raven" <jonlenn...@get2net.dk> wrote:
> > he will never *be* Frodo, and cannot really *replace* Frodo.
> But the Frodo of the etext, and all the other characters, are quite
> different from the ones in the original. Boromir will never *be*
> Frodo? But *Frodo* ain't Frodo!

I meant E-text Frodo. What can I say? I've grown accustomed to his
face...

Prembone


--
The Elton John Worship Page eltonworship.virtualave.net

MythTakes: Tolkien Parody http://www.prembone.com/mythtakes/

Raven

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Dec 30, 2000, 2:29:38 PM12/30/00
to
"Prembone" <prem...@my-deja.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:92jlb6$h27$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> I meant E-text Frodo. What can I say? I've grown accustomed to his
> face...

Yes, I've long known you for a Frodophile.

Cuervo.


Prembone

unread,
Dec 30, 2000, 11:18:47 PM12/30/00
to
In article <aot36.368$KI3....@news.get2net.dk>,

Yeah, I'm kind of like those Elvisphiles who love the faux Elvii as
much as the Real One. Of course my love of Frodo is strictly platonic;
as I am female, he wouldn't have it any other way.

Raven

unread,
Dec 31, 2000, 7:32:14 AM12/31/00
to
"Prembone" <prem...@my-deja.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:92mc35$elr$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> Of course my love of Frodo is strictly platonic;
> as I am female, he wouldn't have it any other way.

*This*, on a more flame-prone NG, might spark quite a discussion!

Kruka.


Paul Shenton

unread,
Dec 31, 2000, 1:36:11 PM12/31/00
to

"Raven" <jonlenn...@get2net.dk> wrote in message
news:OTK36.226$ru4....@news.get2net.dk...

> "Prembone" <prem...@my-deja.com> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:92mc35$elr$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
>
> > Of course my love of Frodo is strictly platonic;
> > as I am female, he wouldn't have it any other way.
>
>
I am not so sure. I have it from a good source that Frodo is quite desirous
of Premboning you.


Prembone

unread,
Jan 1, 2001, 1:58:32 AM1/1/01
to
In article <v0L36.175980$4U6.5...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com>,

Alas, no. When I channeled his ghost, he only had eyes for Elton, who,
it must be admitted, was decked in a most becoming frock.

Paul Shenton

unread,
Jan 1, 2001, 10:11:41 AM1/1/01
to

"Prembone" <prem...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:92p9qo$eru$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...

> In article <v0L36.175980$4U6.5...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com>,
> "Paul Shenton" <lpsh...@home.com> wrote:
> >
> > "Raven" <jonlenn...@get2net.dk> wrote in message
> > news:OTK36.226$ru4....@news.get2net.dk...
> > > "Prembone" <prem...@my-deja.com> skrev i en meddelelse
> > > news:92mc35$elr$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > >
> > > > Of course my love of Frodo is strictly platonic;
> > > > as I am female, he wouldn't have it any other way.
> > >
> > >
> > I am not so sure. I have it from a good source that Frodo is quite
> > desirous of Premboning you.
>
> Alas, no. When I channeled his ghost, he only had eyes for Elton, who,
> it must be admitted, was decked in a most becoming frock.
>
> Prembone

Ghost??? He went to the West and continues to live.


Paul.


Raven

unread,
Jan 1, 2001, 1:49:22 PM1/1/01
to
"Paul Shenton" <lpsh...@home.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:N6146.176933$4U6.5...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...

> Ghost??? He went to the West and continues to live.

That at least is wrong. He went to Aman, was healed of his hurts or
at least they were made lighter, and he died. Aman doesn't confer
immortality on mortals; that was Ar-Phārazon's mistake.

Holló.


Aris Katsaris

unread,
Jan 1, 2001, 8:17:20 PM1/1/01
to

Paul Shenton <lpsh...@home.com> wrote in message
news:N6146.176933$4U6.5...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com...

Not according to Tolkien... He went to the West and eventually died.

Aris Katsaris


China Blue White Supergiant

unread,
Jan 1, 2001, 8:26:48 PM1/1/01
to
/ > Ghost??? He went to the West and continues to live.
/
/ Not according to Tolkien... He went to the West and eventually died.

What does he know?

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Prembone

unread,
Jan 2, 2001, 12:45:59 PM1/2/01
to
In article <N6146.176933$4U6.5...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com>,

"Paul Shenton" <lpsh...@home.com> wrote:
>
> "Prembone" <prem...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:92p9qo$eru$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > Alas, no. When I channeled his ghost, he only had eyes for Elton,
> > who, it must be admitted, was decked in a most becoming frock.
> >
> > Prembone
>
> Ghost??? He went to the West and continues to live.

As the others pointed out, he did die. Of course, what isn't recorded
in the Red Book is that some years after his departure he returned to
Middle-earth, where he lived out his years and eventually died. But I
digress...

You, poor thing, have obviously not a clue of what I spoke. Seek ye
enlightenment here:

http://www.prembone.com/mythtakes/frodosghost1.html

There are two more episodes of my channeling of Frodo's Ghost, which
you may find by clicking on the "Back" button at the bottom of the
above-referenced page.

Happy reading,

Paul Shenton

unread,
Jan 2, 2001, 8:52:22 PM1/2/01
to

> You, poor thing, have obviously not a clue of what I spoke. Seek ye
> enlightenment here:
>
> http://www.prembone.com/mythtakes/frodosghost1.html
>
> There are two more episodes of my channeling of Frodo's Ghost, which
> you may find by clicking on the "Back" button at the bottom of the
> above-referenced page.
>
> Happy reading,
>
> Prembone

You frighten me.

Paul.


Prembone

unread,
Jan 2, 2001, 11:09:24 PM1/2/01
to
In article <qBv46.181244$4U6.5...@news1.rdc2.on.home.com>,
"Paul Shenton" <lpsh...@home.com> wrote:

> You frighten me.

You're just jealous because I talk to Frodo's Ghost and you don't.

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