500 Unanswerable Questions About Middle-earth
Morgoth's Curse
compile a list of questions which, to the best of our knowledge,
cannot be answered (either because Tolkien never mentioned it or ever
thought of the matter.) Duplicate questions will eventually be weeded
out and the list will, if he agrees, be added to Troel's website in
the future. If we discover that a question has actually been answered
by Tolkien, then it will be removed from the list.
I'll launch the list with five questions. Feel free to add as many as
occur to you!
1. What were the names of Queen Beruthiel's nine cats?
2. How many levels did Moria actually have? (Only seven levels are
mentioned, but it seems to be implied that many more were delved.)
3. How many years did it actually take to build and delve Menegroth?
4. What sort of boats did the Brandybucks use? (Only the raft on
which Frodo and his companions crossed the Brandywine is actually
described. Were the other boats skiffs, rowboats, or barges?)
5. How many Eagles actually fought in the Battle of Five Armies?
Morgoth's Curse
Sean_Q_
> 4. What sort of boats did the Brandybucks use? (Only the raft on
> which Frodo and his companions crossed the Brandywine is actually
> described. Were the other boats skiffs, rowboats, or barges?)
According to Thor Heyerdahl, there are various kinds of primitive boats
such as:
(a) bundled reeds
(b) logs
(c) rafts made out of (b)
(d) hollowed out logs
(e) framework covered in wood/fabric/hides
I think (a) can be ruled out. There's no equivalent to Lake Chad
or Titicaca in the Shire.
(b), (c) and (d) -- maybe this is why the Old Forest is so upset;
its trees were cut down for boats.
That leaves (e). Maybe the Brandybucks use a smaller version
of this boat:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:JWW_TheLadyOfShallot_1888.jpg
SQ
Raven
news:WXdKk.1096$JT3...@newsfe03.iad...
> According to Thor Heyerdahl, there are various kinds of primitive boats
> such as:
> (a) bundled reeds
> (b) logs
> (c) rafts made out of (b)
> (d) hollowed out logs
> (e) framework covered in wood/fabric/hides
[...]
> That leaves (e). Maybe the Brandybucks use a smaller version
> of this boat:
> http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:JWW_TheLadyOfShallot_1888.jpg
I think the hobbits of the Shire would have the technology to build
little row boats with plank hulls. Coracles are also possible.
Brân.
Clams Canino
"Raven" <jon.lennart.be...@mail.its.in.danmark> wrote in message
news:48f9ba08$0
> I think the hobbits of the Shire would have the technology to build
> little row boats with plank hulls. Coracles are also possible.
>
> Brân.
Now speculate as to the "little boat" that Gollum had under the mountain ??
-W
Clams Canino
"Morgoth's Curse" <morgoths...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> I'll launch the list with five questions. Feel free to add as many as
> occur to you!
6. What were the names of the other 8 Nazgul ?
Raven
news:5eKdnd_06rZIeGTV...@earthlink.com...
> Now speculate as to the "little boat" that Gollum had under the mountain
> ??
A coracle made from bones and hides of goblins, only the Professor was
too kind to mention this?
Rabe.
BaJoRi
1) Were there black hobbits? If so, were they known as African-Hobbitonians?
Morgoth's Curse
7. Which of the Nazgul was the first to receive his ring from Sauron?
8. Did Elrond actively participate in the construction of Rivendell
or did he merely supervise it?
Morgoth's Curse
Sean_Q_
> 1) Were there black hobbits? If so, were they known as
> African-Hobbitonians?
No, the Black Hobbits were the ones who established their dwellings
in Middle Earth during the years of Sauron's domination and worshiped
him, becoming enamoured of evil knowledge.
SQ
Derek Broughton
> 4. What sort of boats did the Brandybucks use? (Only the raft on
> which Frodo and his companions crossed the Brandywine is actually
> described. Were the other boats skiffs, rowboats, or barges?)
You missed coracles, which iirc is what Deagol and Smeagol used.
--
derek
Derek Broughton
> Morgoth's Curse wrote:
>
>> 4. What sort of boats did the Brandybucks use? (Only the raft on
>> which Frodo and his companions crossed the Brandywine is actually
>> described. Were the other boats skiffs, rowboats, or barges?)
>
> According to Thor Heyerdahl, there are various kinds of primitive boats
> such as:
>
> (a) bundled reeds
> (b) logs
> (c) rafts made out of (b)
> (d) hollowed out logs
> (e) framework covered in wood/fabric/hides
>
> I think (a) can be ruled out. There's no equivalent to Lake Chad
> or Titicaca in the Shire.
Nevertheless, bullrushes grow everywhere.
--
derek
Tamf Moo
>> Now speculate as to the "little boat" that Gollum had under the
>> mountain ??
>
> A coracle made from bones and hides of goblins, only the Professor was
> too kind to mention this?
<Smaug>
Hey, who stole my safari hat?
</Smaug>
--
tamf.
Morgoth's Curse
I just have trouble believing that any community sufficiently advanced
that can manufacture clocks, mills and umbrellas would rely on
something as primitive and unsafe as a coracle. It is not as though
wooden plank boats were unknown in Middle-earth. Arnor had been a
Numenorean kingdom while it still existed and the men of Esgaroth
certainly used such boats.
Morgoth's Curse
Sean_Q_
> I just have trouble believing that any community sufficiently advanced
> that can manufacture clocks, mills and umbrellas would rely on
> something as primitive and unsafe as a coracle.
They're still used in Wales because (a) the Welsh are extremely
traditional in their habits or (b) the coracle is the best boat design
for use on their waters. In fact the coracle styles vary between
rivers in Wales.
Also, I suppose the Welsh are capable of manufacturing clocks, mills
and umbrellas (it does rain there) but I have no trouble believing
they use coracles. In fact here's an example of advanced Welsh
technology:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Trike.14.arp.jpg
SQ
Öjevind Lång
news:WYidnbeXj5-Ee2TV...@earthlink.com...
8. Was there a postal service in Gondor?
Öjevind
Larry Swain
> Morgoth's Curse wrote:
>
>> I just have trouble believing that any community sufficiently advanced
>> that can manufacture clocks, mills and umbrellas would rely on
>> something as primitive and unsafe as a coracle.
>
>
> They're still used in Wales because (a) the Welsh are extremely
> traditional in their habits or (b) the coracle is the best boat design
> for use on their waters. In fact the coracle styles vary between
> rivers in Wales.
>
> Also, I suppose the Welsh are capable of manufacturing clocks, mills
> and umbrellas (it does rain there) but I have no trouble believing
> they use coracles. In fact here's an example of advanced Welsh
I confess to having an image of Bilbo's parents punting on the Cam....er
Brandywine...completely inaccurate of course, but there ya go
Morgoth's Curse
That will technically be question Number 9.
10. Why didn't Smaug ever attack the dwarves living in the Iron
Hills?
Morgoth's Curse
Clams Canino
"Morgoth's Curse" <morgoths...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> 10. Why didn't Smaug ever attack the dwarves living in the Iron
> Hills?
Too far away to risk losing his any of hoard due to possible theft -
particularly since the Iron Hills had little of the great loots he already
mastered. Risk vs reward principal.
-W
Clams Canino
"Öjevind Lång" <bredba...@ojevind.lang> wrote in message
> 8. Was there a postal service in Gondor?
Of course. Who do you think the Hobbits learned the concept from?
-W
BaJoRi
"Sean_Q_" <nos...@no.sapm> wrote in message
news:LXyKk.6499$J54....@newsfe19.iad...
Somethine trite and sort of hunorous, and you had to go and make a dickhead
comment like that...way to go.
Derek Broughton
>
> 10. Why didn't Smaug ever attack the dwarves living in the Iron
> Hills?
Shouldn't that be "did Smaug ever attack the dwarves living in the Iron
Hills?"
I don't think we know he _never_ attacked them. Obviously, he never
defeated them as he did the dwarves in the Lonely Mountain.
--
derek
Derek Broughton
> On Sat, 18 Oct 2008 10:33:16 -0300, Derek Broughton
> <ne...@pointerstop.ca> wrote:
>
>>Morgoth's Curse wrote:
>>
>>> 4. What sort of boats did the Brandybucks use? (Only the raft on
>>> which Frodo and his companions crossed the Brandywine is actually
>>> described. Were the other boats skiffs, rowboats, or barges?)
>>
>>You missed coracles, which iirc is what Deagol and Smeagol used.
>
> I just have trouble believing that any community sufficiently advanced
> that can manufacture clocks, mills and umbrellas would rely on
> something as primitive and unsafe as a coracle. It is not as though
> wooden plank boats were unknown in Middle-earth.
I have no trouble with the idea that they may have moved on from coracles by
now, but some extremely advanced canoe/kayak designs are not that far
removed from a coracle, and as Sean points out people _do_ still use
coracles, so I think you still have to bear them in mind.
I also have to agree with Larry that I have that image of punting on the
Cam, too. The Hobbits are everything that is best about the English
society of Tolkien's time, and what could beat punting on the Cam?
--
derek
Julian Bradfield
> I also have to agree with Larry that I have that image of punting on the
> Cam, too. The Hobbits are everything that is best about the English
> society of Tolkien's time, and what could beat punting on the Cam?
Err, punting on the Isis? (Not that *I* would think this, being a
Cambridge man, but perhaps Tolkien would have done.)
Kunochan
entanglements, and marry while still a virgin? What about Aragorn, did
he lose his virginity at 80?
Dave Stallard
"Drownded???"
calvin
Maybe after affairs with 1000 elves she had had enough
of male perfection, and decided to try something else.
Taemon
treasure of the Barrow-Downs?
T.
BaJoRi
"calvin" <cri...@windstream.net> wrote in message
news:964e146f-4629-45e4...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
>of male perfection, and decided to try something else.\
Do you really need someone to give you a definition of the whole "virgin"
thing?
calvin
> "calvin" <cri...@windstream.net> wrote:
> On Oct 20, 9:07 pm, Kunochan <kunoc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > 11. Did Arwen really wait 3,000 years, not having any romantic
> > entanglements, and marry while still a virgin? What about Aragorn, did
> > he lose his virginity at 80?
>
> >Maybe after affairs with 1000 elves she had had enough
> >of male perfection, and decided to try something else.\
>
> Do you really need someone to give you a definition of the whole "virgin"
> thing?
I don't recall Tolkien ever telling us that Arwen was a virgin.
Derek Broughton
Of _course_ not! How could it be an unanswerable question if he did?
--
derek
Clams Canino
No, but I think it's implied. In most faery tales "the princess" in
question is usually depicted as chaste and awaiting her "true love" (tm).
No reason to believe Arwen was different.
Time passes differetly for elves, to some degree.
-W
BaJoRi
"Clams Canino" <cc-m...@earthdink.net> wrote in message
news:dKSdnbhv-Zxl2WPV...@earthlink.com...
So the question becomes: Did Arwen "plump the pudding", so to speak.
I doubt this is where the thread was intended to go, but there you have it.
As to someone's questions about the green stone that Bombadil pocketed, I
would not doubt in the slightest that there was a story around it, that
either hasn't seen the light of day or was destroyed. I would be curious as
to what Tolkien would have done with it though.
Clams Canino
"BaJoRi" <bajor...@aol.com> wrote in message news:D9tLk.106292
>
> So the question becomes: Did Arwen "plump the pudding", so to speak.
>
> I doubt this is where the thread was intended to go, but there you have
it.
Well, we can assume that JRRT being a strict Roman Catholic would not allow
*his* elves to practice pre-marital sex or birth control. As to what
individual elf-maidens did in the privacy of thier own tree.... I think
that's best left totally unanswered. ;)
I would have solved this problem by having *my* elf-maidens allowed to live
in a semi-cloistered environment - where they were free to interact with
each other as they saw fit; until such time a man swept them off thier feet.
<EG> However, I highly doubt Tolkien's elf-maidens even contemplated any
such behavior.
-W
BaJoRi
>
> "BaJoRi" <bajor...@aol.com> wrote in message news:D9tLk.106292
>>
>> So the question becomes: Did Arwen "plump the pudding", so to speak.
>>
>> I doubt this is where the thread was intended to go, but there you have
> it.
>
> Well, we can assume that JRRT being a strict Roman Catholic would not
> allow
> *his* elves to practice pre-marital sex or birth control. As to what
> individual elf-maidens did in the privacy of thier own tree.... I think
> that's best left totally unanswered. ;)
>
> I would have solved this problem by having *my* elf-maidens allowed to
> live
> in a semi-cloistered environment - where they were free to interact with
> each other as they saw fit;
<PERK> Sapphic Elvish lasses!!!!! Now we know why Jackson cast Liv Tyler in
the role...
until such time a man swept them off thier feet.
> <EG> However, I highly doubt Tolkien's elf-maidens even contemplated
> any
> such behavior.
Sapphic elvish lasses? Now THAT would have been a trilogy.
Alan Nordin
think he would have left it!
"Derek Broughton" <ne...@pointerstop.ca> wrote in message
news:2468360.j...@cedar.serverforest.com...
calvin
> Smaug was so paranoid that he had to sleep on his treasure. Do you really
> think he would have left it!
It wasn't paranoia. Lying on their hoarded treasure is what
dragons do. Glaurung did it too, for a while, on the treasure
of Nargothrond.
Alan Nordin
to further the curse on Hurin.
In UT "The Quest of Erebor" Gandalf is talking to Thorin. _You may be sure
that he explores his hall day by day, night by night, until he is sure that
no faintest air of a Dwarf is near, before he goes to his sleep: his
half-sleep, prick-eared for the sound of - Dwarf-feet._ Paranoid may not be
the correct word, his fears were well founded, but it took 171 years before
the dwarves came back {2770 ta - 2941 ta}. 171 years of sleepless nights?
maybe paranoid is the correct word!
Alan :)
I just love it when I talk about this stuff like it really happened!
"calvin" <cri...@windstream.net> wrote in message
news:85b2761d-7b99-44b4...@64g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
Clams Canino
"Alan Nordin" <alan_...@comcast.net> wrote in message news:gdmeuk$9k1
> I just love it when I talk about this stuff like it really happened!
You mean it didn't happen?
-W
BaJoRi
> Smaug was so paranoid that he had to sleep on his treasure. Do you really
> think he would have left it!
People always project their own fallibilities and character flaws on to
others. For all his being a dragon, he still had a human-like personality.
So sleepingon his treasure is natural, as he ascribes his motives for
thievery on to others, and wishes to protect what was his.
calvin
lying upon them is something that dragons do.
Derek Broughton
> Smaug was so paranoid that he had to sleep on his treasure. Do you really
> think he would have left it!
Not only would he, he had to. He lived in "the Desolation of Smaug" -
finding a nice moose for breakfast would take him a long way afield.
--
derek
Tamf Moo
> Not only would he, he had to. He lived in "the Desolation of Smaug" -
> finding a nice moose for breakfast would take him a long way afield.
5.5. Did Smaug prefer his moose with chocolate, or au natural?
--
tamf.
BaJoRi
In the original draft, Sarah Palin shoots a moose from a helicopter and they
airlift it to Smaug...That Tolkien, what a forward thinker.
Raven
news:6m9f5aF...@mid.individual.net...
> 5.5. Did Smaug prefer his moose with chocolate, or au natural?
With CHOKLIT, of course. YOU should know.
Ramn.
Clams Canino
Because they are posessive and afraid of theft. After all THEY stole it to
begin with.
-W
"calvin" <cri...@windstream.net> wrote in message
news:49952ec1-5dac-4c44...@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
calvin
> Calvin wrote:
> > As I said before, gathering their hoards into a heap and
> > lying upon them is something that dragons do.
> Yes they do.
> Because they are posessive and afraid of theft.
> After all THEY stole it to begin with.
What you say is true, but the way a dragon *enjoys* its
stolen hoard is to lie upon it.
Larry Swain
But he does tell us that elves generally mate for life.
Öjevind Lång
news:6m6e7uF...@mid.individual.net...
> 12. Whose was the green stone Tom Bombadil took with him after exposing
> the treasure of the Barrow-Downs?
I like the fact that that is a mystery. I hope no one ever finds a scribbled
note on a piece of paper saying who she was.
Öjevind
Öjevind Lång
news:85b2761d-7b99-44b4...@64g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
> It wasn't paranoia. Lying on their hoarded treasure is what
dragons do. Glaurung did it too, for a while, on the treasure
of Nargothrond.
Perhaps they hope to hatch more gold.
Öjevind
Öjevind Lång
[snip]
> What you say is true, but the way a dragon *enjoys* its
> stolen hoard is to lie upon it.
You mean they never swim around in it or burrow through it or throw it up
into the air?
Öjevind
Öjevind Lång
news:3119976.8...@cedar.serverforest.com...
[snip]
> Not only would he, he had to. He lived in "the Desolation of Smaug" -
> finding a nice moose for breakfast would take him a long way afield.
It was known as "the Desolation of Smaug" because he invited a dragon lady
to share his home, but she left after two weeks to find something to eat,
and then he was desolé.
Her last words to him were: "You cheapskate! There isn't as much as a
dwarf en casserole in your pantry!"
Öjevind
calvin
> "calvin" <cri...@windstream.net> wrote:
> > ...
> > What you say is true, but the way a dragon *enjoys* its
> > stolen hoard is to lie upon it.
>
> You mean they never swim around in it or burrow through it or throw it up
> into the air?
I wonder why you ridicule what Tolkien has told us. (But
thanks for remembering an off-topic post of mine.)
Derek Broughton
I thought "Moose au natural" _was_ Moose with Choklit.
--
derek
Derek Broughton
While I'm in no way able to speak for Öjevind, I don't see that there's any
ridicule there. Dragons enjoy lying on their hoards, but this could well
be one of the 500 Unanswerable Questions - DO they also like to burrow into
them?
--
derek
alan_...@comcast.net
> to others. For all his being a dragon, he still had a human-like
> personality. So sleepingon his treasure is natural, as he ascribes his
> motives for thievery on to others, and wishes to protect what was his.
If dragon's as a group show paranoid behavior, is it wrong to point out
that behavior as paranoid when talking about an individual dragon?
Spending 171 years patrolling for thieves and 171 years afraid to fall
completely asleep is paranoid behavior.
Raven
news:174996028....@cedar.serverforest.com...
> I thought "Moose au natural" _was_ Moose with Choklit.
Good point.
Rabe.
BaJoRi
"Öjevind Lång" <bredba...@ojevind.lang> wrote in message
news:6mbd22F...@mid.individual.net...
You do realize thought that it is just a matter of time before Christopher
just "happens" to stumble across said snipper of paper, right?
Tamf Moo
>>> 5.5. Did Smaug prefer his moose with chocolate, or au natural?
>> With CHOKLIT, of course. YOU should know.
>
> I thought "Moose au natural" _was_ Moose with Choklit.
in this modern day and aget, it's moose with chick lit, actually.
--
tamf
Clams Canino
"Öjevind Lång" <bredba...@ojevind.lang> wrote in message
news:6mbd22F...@mid.individual.net...
It was a brooch set with blue stones.
I think we're closer than you think to an answer. "Somewhere" (letters /
UT?) it's speculated or defined who's tomb that was likely to be. From
there all we need do is identify his spouse, as it was likely she who wore
the brooch on her shoulder.
-W
Raven
> Derek Broughton wrote:
>> I thought "Moose au natural" _was_ Moose with Choklit.
> in this modern day and aget, it's moose with chick lit, actually.
Wouldn't that be moose with lipstick? No, wait, that's pitbull.
Hræfn.
BaJoRi
"Tamf Moo" <liddle...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6mcdo1F...@mid.individual.net...
The people responsible for this post have been sacked...after the moose bit
my sister..
Öjevind Lång
news:Mn4Mk.119171$9s3....@fe07.news.easynews.com...
[snip]
>>> 12. Whose was the green stone Tom Bombadil took with him after exposing
>>> the treasure of the Barrow-Downs?
>>
>> I like the fact that that is a mystery. I hope no one ever finds a
>> scribbled note on a piece of paper saying who she was.
>>
>> Öjevind
>
> You do realize thought that it is just a matter of time before Christopher
> just "happens" to stumble across said snipper of paper, right?
Nooo! Please tell me it ain't so!
Öjevind
Öjevind Lång
news:Xns9B407A8D...@85.214.105.209...
We must not be judgmental of the lifestyle of others! (If it can be called a
life, that is.)
Öjevind
Öjevind Lång
meddelandet news:4901e9f3$0$56769$edfa...@dtext02.news.tele.dk...
You mean maverick with mint sauce.
Öjevind
BaJoRi
"Öjevind Lång" <bredba...@ojevind.lang> wrote in message
Either way, the moose is more qualified to be VP
BaJoRi
"Alan Nordin" <alan_...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:gdm6jf$86d$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
> Smaug was so paranoid that he had to sleep on his treasure. Do you really
> think he would have left it!
>
>
Well, maybe we are being too pedestrian about the idea. I see no reason that
Tolkien would deviate from the mythologies surrounding dragons, and their
treasure hoards. In some myths, treasure-hoarding by dragons had a mystic
connection, with the dragon being weakened when away from his gold, and
susceptible to attack. The larger the hoard that a dragon could steal and
protect, the more powerful that dragon was shown to be, with their being an
almost symbiotic bond between the two.
Clams Canino
"BaJoRi" <bajor...@aol.com> wrote in message news:jCFMk.156907
> Well, maybe we are being too pedestrian about the idea. I see no reason
that
> Tolkien would deviate from the mythologies surrounding dragons, and their
> treasure hoards. In some myths, treasure-hoarding by dragons had a mystic
> connection, with the dragon being weakened when away from his gold, and
> susceptible to attack. The larger the hoard that a dragon could steal and
> protect, the more powerful that dragon was shown to be, with their being
an
> almost symbiotic bond between the two.
Explain to me the difference between a dragon and a pack-rat? (shiney
stuff)
-W
Morgoth's Curse
<morgoths...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
Time for an update:
1. What were the names of Queen Beruthiel's nine cats?
2. How many levels did Moria actually have? (Only seven levels are
mentioned, but it seems to be implied that many more were delved.)
3. How many years did it actually take to build and delve Menegroth?
4. What sort of boats did the Brandybucks use? (Only the raft on
which Frodo and his companions crossed the Brandywine is actually
described. Were the other boats skiffs, rowboats, or barges?)
5. How many Eagles actually fought in the Battle of Five Armies?
6. What were the names of the other 8 Nazgul ?
7. Which of the Nazgul was the first to receive his ring from Sauron?
8. Did Elrond actively participate in the construction of Rivendell
or did he merely supervise it?
9. Was there a postal service in Gondor?
10. Why didn't Smaug ever attack the dwarves living in the Iron
Hills?
11. Did Arwen really wait 3,000 years, not having any romantic
entanglements, and marry while still a virgin? What about Aragorn, did
he lose his virginity at 80?
12. Whose was the green stone Tom Bombadil took with him after
exposing the treasure of the Barrow-Downs?
and a few new questions:
13. Did the Noldor ever try to tunnel into Angband when they besieged
it?
14. Did the Elves who remained in Middle-earth master horses before
the return of the Noldor?
15. Did the horses which the Noldor brought from Valinor live longer
than the horses which were native to Middle-earth?
16. How long did it take to delve and/or build the Dwarven cities of
Nogrod & Belegost?
Only 16 question? Pick up the pace, you slackers! We still got 464
questions to debate! Why, if Tolkien had worked at this pace, he
would, er..hmm...come to think of it..Tolkien DID work at this pace.
;-D
Morgoth's Curse
Morgoth's Curse
<kuno...@gmail.com> wrote:
>11. Did Arwen really wait 3,000 years, not having any romantic
>entanglements, and marry while still a virgin? What about Aragorn, did
>he lose his virginity at 80?
Why not? JRRT had to wait three years before he could marry Edith.
Ask any teenager and they will confirm that waiting three years for
sex is like waiting 3,000 years!
Morgoth's Curse
Derek Broughton
A dragon is usually fatal...
--
derek
Erik Trulsson
It is actually in LOTR (Appendix A):
"[Some say that the mound in which the Ring-bearer was imprisoned had been
the grave of the last prince of Cardolan, who fell in the war of 1409.}"
I don't know if this prince is actually given a name anywhere though. (Not
in LOTR or UT anyway as far as I can tell.)
--
<Insert your favourite quote here.>
Erik Trulsson
ertr...@student.uu.se
John W Kennedy
Illogical assumption; it could be an heirloom dating to the undivided
kingdom, or earlier.
--
John W. Kennedy
"Those in the seat of power oft forget their failings and seek only
the obeisance of others! Thus is bad government born! Hold in your
heart that you and the people are one, human beings all, and good
government shall arise of its own accord! Such is the path of virtue!"
-- Kazuo Koike. "Lone Wolf and Cub: Thirteen Strings" (tr. Dana Lewis)
Öjevind Lång
news:4904afce$0$4983$607e...@cv.net...
Furthermore, the barrows were older than the Northern Kingdom. The brooch
coukld very well have belonged to a princess or queen from one of the
ancient kingdoms that existed long before the return of the Númenoreans to
Middle-earth.
And I wish someone had stopped Tolkien's hand before he wrote down that
"Some say that the mound" yada yada. He must have known perfectly well that
some things are better left as mysteries.
Öjevind
Clams Canino
"Morgoth's Curse" <morgoths...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:31u8g4lr8djo8cbm5...@4ax.com...
17. What were the origins of "The Watcher In The Water" outside Moria?
-W
Öjevind Lång
news:31u8g4lr8djo8cbm5...@4ax.com...
17. Did balrogs have wings? [D&RC]
Öjevind
Derek Broughton
I don't know. Not only is that a question that shouldn't be answered, but I
dont think it should even be asked.
--
derek
Derek Broughton
Good one!
--
derek
Troels Forchhammer
Derek Broughton <ne...@pointerstop.ca> spoke these staves:
> Öjevind Lång wrote:
>
>> "Morgoth's Curse" <morgoths...@nospam.yahoo.com> skrev i
>> meddelandet news:31u8g4lr8djo8cbm5...@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> Time for an update:
<snip 1 through 16>
>> 17. Did balrogs have wings? [D&RC]
>
> I don't know. Not only is that a question that shouldn't be
> answered, but I dont think it should even be asked.
Of course it should be asked -- if that question does not belong in a
list of _unanswerable_ questions about Middle-earth, then the list
doesn't deserve to be ;-)
18. What adventures did Eärendil have while searching for Valinor
(there's a very curt outline in BoLT, but nothing later than that).
I'm minded to ask if Balrogs had pink fluffy slippers, also ;)
But what about questions that are not 'unanswered' as such, but which
have been given so many different answers by Tolkien that they are
nevertheless unanswerable? That could, for instance, include:
19. Where did Galadriel and Celeborn meet?
Oh, and in the less silly section, I would ask what the mental
capabilities of the One Ring were. Could it think? Could it formulate
new strategies (i.e. strategies that were not 'programmed' into it)
to meet a situation? Etc.
--
Troels Forchhammer
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.
My adversary's argument
is not alone malevolent
but ignorant to boot.
He hasn't even got the sense
to state his so-called evidence
in terms I can refute.
- Piet Hein, /The Untenable Argument/
Taemon
> 17. What were the origins of "The Watcher In The Water" outside
> Moria?
And what did it live off?
T.
Tamf Moo
>> 17. What were the origins of "The Watcher In The Water" outside
>> Moria?
> And what did it live off?
CHOKLIT!!!!
i really should stop this wishful thinking.
CHOKLIT-coated dwarves?
and when the supply ran out... CHOKLIT-coated orcs.
poor watcher. no wonder it wanted Frodo.
--
tamf.
BaJoRi
"Derek Broughton" <ne...@pointerstop.ca> wrote in message
news:5896539.F...@cedar.serverforest.com...
I was almost ready to make a smart-alek comment on how this had been
explained very carefully, with exact details and everything, until I
remembered that I was thinking of the LOTR knock-offs from Dennis McKiernan,
who has an explantion for such in his books.
Clams Canino
"BaJoRi" <baron...@aol.com> wrote in message news:yfkNk.16358
> I was almost ready to make a smart-alek comment on how this had been
> explained very carefully, with exact details and everything, until I
> remembered that I was thinking of the LOTR knock-offs from Dennis
McKiernan,
> who has an explantion for such in his books.
Heh... That's *almost* as bad as using the Jackson film for a source. :)
-W
Taemon
>> "Taemon" <Tae...@zonnet.nl> skrev i meddelandet
>> news:6m6e7uF...@mid.individual.net...
>>> 12. Whose was the green stone Tom Bombadil took with him after
>>> exposing the treasure of the Barrow-Downs?
> It was a brooch set with blue stones.
You're right, I was confused with other stones. "... a brooche set with blue
stones, many-shaded like flax-flowers or the wings of blue butterflies".
Sounds kinda tacky but then, Tolkien wasn't known for his taste in
jewellery.
> I think we're closer than you think to an answer. "Somewhere"
> (letters / UT?) it's speculated or defined who's tomb that was
> likely to be. From there all we need do is identify his spouse, as
> it was likely she who wore the brooch on her shoulder.
I'd really, really like to know :-)
T.
Taemon
> 12. Whose was the green stone Tom Bombadil took with him after
> exposing the treasure of the Barrow-Downs?
Yeah, I made a mistake there. A brooch set with blue stones it was, thanks
Clams.
T.
Clams Canino
"Taemon" <Tae...@zonnet.nl> wrote in message
news:6mmd62F...@mid.individual.net...
> > I think we're closer than you think to an answer. "Somewhere"
> > (letters / UT?) it's speculated or defined who's tomb that was
> > likely to be. From there all we need do is identify his spouse, as
> > it was likely she who wore the brooch on her shoulder.
>
> I'd really, really like to know :-)
>
Someone pointed out the flaw in my reasoning. All we can learn *perhaps* is
who owned it *last* before it went into the barrow. No way to tell who
*Tom* remembers it associated with in the ages and ages past. :(
-W
Clams Canino
"Troels Forchhammer" <Tro...@ThisIsFake.invalid> wrote in message > >> 17.
Did balrogs have wings? [D&RC]
> >
> > I don't know. Not only is that a question that shouldn't be
> > answered, but I dont think it should even be asked.
>
> Of course it should be asked -- if that question does not belong in a
> list of _unanswerable_ questions about Middle-earth, then the list
> doesn't deserve to be ;-)
I agree... that's the ulimate "unanswerable question" - it deserves to be #1
on the list if anything.
-W
Clams Canino
18: Who were the three Dwarves that accompanied Bilbo as he departed Bag
End after his birhtday party?
Derek Broughton
It's the "if anything" I object to :-) It's a little like asking the
question "When did you stop beating your wife?" - the question only exists
to inflame. Now, as a student of the scientific method, I don't really
believe there are any questions that _shouldn't_ be asked, but there are
often questions I wish hadn't been asked. Unfortunately, that genie isn't
going back in the bottle...
--
derek
Öjevind Lång
news:1958406.A...@cedar.serverforest.com...
[snip]
> It's the "if anything" I object to :-) It's a little like asking the
> question "When did you stop beating your wife?" - the question only exists
> to inflame. Now, as a student of the scientific method, I don't really
> believe there are any questions that _shouldn't_ be asked, but there are
> often questions I wish hadn't been asked. Unfortunately, that genie isn't
> going back in the bottle...
Have you stopped getting drunk?
Öjevind
Clams Canino
"Derek Broughton" <ne...@pointerstop.ca> wrote in message
> the question only exists to inflame.
Therein lies the flaw in your reasoning. The question "has a bad name"
because of all the discourse surrounding it over the ages. When asked in the
beginning, it was probably a legitimate question. Despite all the hoopla, it
still is.
PS: That very question (of sorts) was at the forefront of a recent comedy
hit: Over Her Dead Body
-W
Öjevind Lång
news:PsadnQwiPp8GpZrU...@earthlink.com...
[snip]
> PS: That very question (of sorts) was at the forefront of a recent comedy
> hit: Over Her Dead Body
Written by whom? And how was it used in the play?
Öjevind
Clams Canino
"Öjevind Lång" <bredba...@ojevind.lang> wrote in message
> > PS: That very question (of sorts) was at the forefront of a recent
comedy
> > hit: Over Her Dead Body
>
> Written by whom? And how was it used in the play?
It was an American made movie (comedy) - just came out on DVD 2 weeks ago.
How it was used? It was couched as a recurring (and fatal) argument as to if
angels had wings or not by definition.
-W
Derek Broughton
Nope :-) Though I regret it more after the fact...
--
derek
JimboCat
<morgothscurse2...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
> I thought it might be fun (and hopefully start a bit of discussion) to
> compile a list of questions which, to the best of our knowledge,
> cannot be answered
* What was the "tree-man" that Tolman Cotton saw on the North Moors?
* Did Aragorn really carry no sword but a broken one for sixty years?
* What were the "Watchers" at the pass of Cirith Ungol?
* What was Tom Bombadil? What was old man willow? How 'bout that
Goldberry?
* How did Sauron carry the Ring back from the destruction of Numenor
without a body?
* Why did I just waste three minutes coming up with these silly
questions?
Jim Deutch (JimboCat)
--
Don't question authority. What makes you think they know anything?
Clams Canino
"JimboCat" <10313...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
news:ec9f4f2b-68a6-4ff2...@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 17, 9:47 pm, Morgoth's Curse
<morgothscurse2...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
> I thought it might be fun (and hopefully start a bit of discussion) to
> compile a list of questions which, to the best of our knowledge,
> cannot be answered
And these new addittions are mostly not part of that. <EG> :)
* What was the "tree-man" that Tolman Cotton saw on the North Moors?
A wandering Ent - prolly looking for the Entwives as a guess.
* Did Aragorn really carry no sword but a broken one for sixty years?
Of course not - he did battle in Gondor and Rohan in years past with a real
sword - in disguise.
* What were the "Watchers" at the pass of Cirith Ungol?
That's a good one - I think.
* What was Tom Bombadil? What was old man willow? How 'bout that
Goldberry?
Earth Spirit, Malevolent Huhorn?, River Spirit
* How did Sauron carry the Ring back from the destruction of Numenor
without a body?
Tolkien said it was easy, Sauron still posessed it and enough power to
"teleport it" with him.
* Why did I just waste three minutes coming up with these silly
questions?
Because one of them might actually stick.... The "Watchers" of CU. :)
-W
Raven
news:ec9f4f2b-68a6-4ff2...@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> Don't question authority. What makes you think they know anything?
Question authority. Why? Because I say so!
Hræfn.
Derek Broughton
> "JimboCat" <10313...@compuserve.com> wrote in message
> news:ec9f4f2b-68a6-4ff2...@v39g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 17, 9:47 pm, Morgoth's Curse
> <morgothscurse2...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> * What was the "tree-man" that Tolman Cotton saw on the North Moors?
>
> A wandering Ent - prolly looking for the Entwives as a guess.
I thought we were supposed to suspect it was actually an Entwife. Certainly
it seems unlikely that it could be an Ent.
>
> * Did Aragorn really carry no sword but a broken one for sixty years?
>
> Of course not - he did battle in Gondor and Rohan in years past with a
> real sword - in disguise.
No, I don't think we're ever even supposed to imagine he doesn't have a
sword, but it's like asking about the household cutlery - nobody needs or
cares to know where my table knife comes from or what I do with it.
> * What was Tom Bombadil? What was old man willow? How 'bout that
> Goldberry?
>
> Earth Spirit,
That's no answer at all :-)
> Malevolent Huhorn?, River Spirit
Yes - those don't seem difficult. Old Man Willow _could_ be something else,
but I think we're supposed to suspect that's what he is, and Goldberry is
typical of some of the Maiar that are described. Tom, though, is no Maia.
--
derek
Chris Hoelscher
* What was Tom Bombadil? What was old man willow? How 'bout that
Goldberry?
i do have a serious stab at the last question - i have always believe that
Goldberry, daughter of the river, is in fact the daughter of Ulmo
Weland
Have werdragons come up? What are the werdragons?
Öjevind Lång
> Clams Canino wrote:
[snip]
>> * What was Tom Bombadil? What was old man willow? How 'bout that
>> Goldberry?
>>
>> Earth Spirit,
>
> That's no answer at all :-)
>
>> Malevolent Huhorn?, River Spirit
>
> Yes - those don't seem difficult. Old Man Willow _could_ be something
> else,
> but I think we're supposed to suspect that's what he is, and Goldberry is
> typical of some of the Maiar that are described. Tom, though, is no Maia.
I'm not sure calling Old Man Willow a malevolent huorn really explains
anything. He was a tree gone bad, all right, but apart from that, I don't
know.
Öjevind