So What Does a "Tree" Look Like?
Michael Persiano
Much of the recent discussion on design focuses on what trees look like. Is it not the anomalies in nature that make for some of the most powerful bonsai designs?
Do Kimura's trees "look" like trees in nature?
Is there, perhaps, another design standard beyond the icon of the Pine? );-)
So what does a "tree" look like?
Cordially,
Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob/index.html
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Peter Aradi
>
> Do Kimura's trees "look" like trees in nature?
No! They never intended to. The intention of Japanese bonsai creators
is to create bonsai as an idealized and artistic icon not as a copy
of nature.
>
> Is there, perhaps, another design standard beyond the icon of the Pine? );-)
>
> So what does a "tree" look like?
In East Asian art the idealized tree can be found in the brush paintings
of the literati. A highly recommended book is "The Mustard Seed Garden
Manual of Painting," as it contains most of the idealized concepts of
East Asian art.
I would also like to add that what we commonly refer to as the "classic
Japanese bonsai style" is very young. It developed at the end of the
19th century, after the Meiji Restoration, partly as a nationalistic
response to Western influences. It was at that time when the now classic
pine shape became dominant. It was also the time when pot styles changed
and assumed the somber pastel tones one finds today. If one views older
Japanese prints, let's say prior to 1850, the dominant bonsai trees
were flowering species in gaily decorated polychrome porcelain pots.
Just my 2 yens worth.
Cheers.
Peter Aradi
Tulsa, Oklahoma
Jim Lewis
>
> Much of the recent discussion on design focuses on what trees
look like. Is it not the anomalies in nature that make for some
of the most powerful bonsai designs?
>
>
You have not -- obviously -- spent time above the "tree line"
where what few trees manage to survive can look very much like
some of Kimura's creations.
> Is there, perhaps, another design standard beyond the icon of
the Pine? );-)
>
> So what does a "tree" look like?
>
You shouldn't have to ask ;-Q
Jim Lewis - jkl...@nettally.com - Tallahassee, FL - Who is one
of those who doesn't think that _everything_ Mr. K. does is a
"masterpiece" and who is quite sure that he does not walk on
water.
Jim Lewis
paintings
> of the literati. A highly recommended book is "The Mustard Seed
Garden
> Manual of Painting," as it contains most of the idealized
concepts of
> East Asian art.
>
Lovely book. I have (and cherish) two original Mustard Seed
Garden paintings (not trees, but birds). The book is available
(in reproduction) from several sources. There used to be an
on-line version, but I don't have the URL any more. Perhaps a
search will do it.
> I would also like to add that what we commonly refer to as the
"classic
> Japanese bonsai style" is very young. It developed at the end
of the
> 19th century, after the Meiji Restoration, partly as a
nationalistic
> response to Western influences. It was at that time when the
now classic
> pine shape became dominant. It was also the time when pot
styles changed
> and assumed the somber pastel tones one finds today. If one
views older
> Japanese prints, let's say prior to 1850, the dominant bonsai
trees
> were flowering species in gaily decorated polychrome porcelain
pots.
Yup. Nothing lasts forever, but change is permanent.
Jim Lewis - jkl...@nettally.com - Tallahassee, FL - The Earth is
Full! Go HOME!
Carol Ann and D'Arcy Bechard
"drastic redesign" and it gets the hell out of his way!
D'Arcy
Jim Lewis <jkl...@NETTALLY.COM> wrote in message
news:002801c05a29$601f5900$30122cc7@pavilion...>
> Jim Lewis - jkl...@nettally.com - Tallahassee, FL - Who is one
> of those who doesn't think that _everything_ Mr. K. does is a
> "masterpiece" and who is quite sure that he does not walk on
> water.
>
>
****************************************************************************
****
Peter Aradi
>
> The Mustard Seed Garden book was a booklet for amateur painters
> and I am not sure if it is in any way connected to the Literati of China.
> I have usually seen the book spoken of in negative terms.
> [ I do have a copy ]
>
Khaimraj:
Yes, the Mustard Seed Garden book was for amateurs. ALL LITERATI
painters in China were AMATEURS. They were professional
scholar/officials
who (supposedly) painted for relaxation and pleasure. The usual
past time of the literati were centered on calligraphy, painting, and
writing poetry. You may add music and perhaps some serious drinking. :-)
Finally, only the literati could afford and seriously entertain the
idea of painting, consequently the book was specifically targeted at
the literati. I suggest you reread the text and it will become clear
that
the language is aimed at a highly educated reader.
As for negative comments, you won't find them in any serious
publications
dealing with Chinese art. (Serious means scholarly or academic in this
context.)
Cheers.
Peter Aradi
Tulsa, Oklahoma
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Alan Walker
> Jim Lewis - jkl...@nettally.com - Tallahassee, FL
Jim: What does this mean, "change is permanent"? Perhaps inevitable, for good or
bad ... but permanent?
Alan Walker, Lake Charles, LA, USA
Andy Rutledge
In answer to your flurry of rhetorical questions:
---------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Persiano" <IAS...@AOL.COM
> Forum:
>
> Much of the recent discussion on design focuses on what trees look like.
Is it not the anomalies in nature that make for some of the most powerful
bonsai designs?
Yep!
----------------------------
> Do Kimura's trees "look" like trees in nature?
----------------------------
A great many of them. A lot of his work is IMO just inventive ways to make
trees conform to a given shape when the tree decidedly does not want to do
so.
----------------------------
> Is there, perhaps, another design standard beyond the icon of the
ine? );-)
----------------------------
Like the broom style of a few dozen species, the wind-whipped, half-dead
style of high mountain junipers, the wide spreading dome style of banyan,
the "oak" style of a few dozen species, the delicate multi-trunk style of
some maples, the clump style of a few dozen species, etc.... Like you said
above, natural anomalies account for most of what is accepted in bonsai.
----------------------------
> So what does a "tree" look like?
> Cordially,
> Michael Persiano
----------------------------
Like any way it ends up growing, IMO.
Regards,
Andy Rutledge
k...@fastlane.net
Michael Persiano
Bonsai - miniature potted trees - Norio Kobayashi [ 1950 ]
I found the trees illustrated to be more stimulating than the modern
stuff.>>
This is quite a wonderful book, and I commonly refer to it for inspiration.
My questions are rhetorical. The collective answers: interesting. Alas, there is no answer. Bonsai is just art. And despite the world of opinion (and I admittedly am a small part of that world), some art survives, and some art perishes.
So What Does a Tree Look Like?
The justification for creative actions is not a part of our final composition. Our works will and must stand on their own.
Time is the true critic.
Cordially,
Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob/index.html
Jim Lewis
permanent.
> > Jim Lewis - jkl...@nettally.com - Tallahassee, FL
>
> Jim: What does this mean, "change is permanent"? Perhaps
inevitable, for good or
> bad ... but permanent?
Simply means that change is always happening.
jim
Iris Cohen
No. That is why they are not to my taste. I enjoy Picasso, Dali, and other
modern artists, and i call Kimura the Picasso of bonsai. Although I enjoy
abstract art in other media, to me a bonsai is supposed to look like a tree,
not like a trunk & branches tied in a knot. The word for Kimura is ungepatchked
("overbusy" but with connotations of not the best taste). Oh, I know he's
popular. On the other hand, I find the old-fashioned styles in Classic Bonsai
of Japan and the Arnold Arboretum just a bit boring. My 2 cents.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"It is forbidden to live in a town which has no greenery." Jerusalem Talmud,
Kiddushin 4:12.