Turface
Jim Moskalik
Is a mail order source available? Is Isolite(?) an alternative?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Jim Moskalik
Jim Moskalik
Robert W. Kimsey
in total for some of you . I'm sorry, and will try and reconstruct
it ASAP.
Here is the address of the company that carries Turface for those
who asked.
Applied Industrial Materials Corp.
1 Parkway North, Suite 400
Deerfield, Il 60015
Phone 1-800-654-8793
In Il. 708-940-8700
Hope this helps.
Robert Kimsey
rob...@tso.cin.ix.net
Cincinnati, Ohio
Andrew W. Walsh
>Here is the address of the company that carries Turface for those
>who asked.
>Applied Industrial Materials Corp.
>1 Parkway North, Suite 400
>Deerfield, Il 60015
>Phone 1-800-654-8793
>In Il. 708-940-8700
>Hope this helps.
>Robert Kimsey
Hi Bob,
Thanks for posting that. I'm not sure if anyone ever posted this info before,
but at least now anyone interested in trying Turface can call up and find out
about the nearest distributor. I'm saving it. Thanks again,
Andy
Earl Cormney
JM>I am having trouble locating turface in my area. Can anyone suggest a subst
JM>e?
JM>Is a mail order source available? Is Isolite(?) an alternative?
JM>Thanks in advance for any help.
JM>Jim Moskalik
JIm, what is your area.
Earl in Kentucky
---
. SLMR 2.1a . Hello, I am part number ................
Jim Warren
'turface' is Oakland Park Nursery. Isolite...is new to me. How far along are
you in growing Bonsai?Thanks Jim
Jim Moskalik
I'm in Hastings,MI which is between Grand Rapids and Battle Creek. No one in the
surrounding area had or knew of Turface thus my post. Thanks to Robert Kimsey's
post, I called Applied Industrial Materials to find a local distributor. There are
only two in the state both of them are landscape contractors. I called the closest
one and he agreed to sell a bag to me ( I haven't got it yet.)
Isolite is kiln fired diatomaceous earth which was advertised in an issue of
"Bonsai Today". Its sold by New England Bonsai,(518) 883-2666. I assume from
the description in the ad that it is a replacement for Turface, but I don,t
know that. Has any one used this product?
I consider myself a bonsai novice though I have had some experience with bonsai in
the past. (The experience was not good.) My main concern now is transplanting a
Norfolk Pine (Araucaria) which I received as a gift and a couple of junipers which
I want to put in traning pots. This is what prompted my post on turface.
I would like to thanks everyone who responded to my original post on locating
Tuface. The information and suggestions I received were invaluable.
Jim
Thomas L. Zane
do yourself a favor and buy a $2.50 to $3.00 25 pound bag of the stuff sold
to dry up oil spills. It is calcinated clay just like Turface, but far more
readily found and much cheaper. It can be obtained from an auto supply store
or chemical supply house.
Tom Zane, Daytona Beach, FL
tomz...@aol.com
John Randecker
I've seen Turface mentioned several times on this list and in the FAQ, but
haven't heard of it otherwise.
I gather from the rest of this thread that it's calcinated clay and is the same
thing used as oil dry in garages and such. My question is, what is it's
purpose in Bonsai soil? Is it there to absorb and hold moisture? From most
of what I've read, too much moisture can be a problem which is why (or at least
one of the reasons why) a fairly coarse soil is usually used for Bonsai. Maybe
if you take out all the fine particles, there's nothing left to hold onto the
moisture so we need to add something for that purpose (or need to water four
times a day <g>)?
I see I've rambled enough to let my complete ignorance on this topic show, so
please enlighten me.
John Randecker
Chris Cochrane
used in bonsai soil mix. Tom noted,
>Calcinated clay, used in the right quantity, (mine is 1/4 part by volume)
>retains enough moisture in my soil mix until watering the next day.
From bonsai journal articles and what our horticulturist (not
me) have said on-line, I think that where Turface retains moisture
on its surface is where nutrient ions are exchanged between the
soil and its roots. Either humus or applied fertilizer are
sources for these nutrients, but the clay surface apparently enhances
ion exchange.
Sieved volcanic rock and diatomaceous earth (Isolite & Axis) are also
used as moisture retentive soil components with positive
properties including some of coarse sand's attributes. Warren
Hill recommends perlite as a moisture retentive, but he grows
trees where heat is intense and most of us wouldn't want that
stark-white foam in our soils. I've noticed that herb growers
use perlite in their nursery mixes because herbs require much
water.
Hope this helps.
--
Chris...[C. Cochrane, ccoc...@freenet.vcu.edu, Richmond (VA) Bonsai Society]
Sandy Vrooman
>used as moisture retentive soil components with positive
>properties including some of coarse sand's attributes. Warren
>Hill recommends perlite as a moisture retentive, but he grows
>trees where heat is intense and most of us wouldn't want that
>stark-white foam in our soils. I've noticed that herb growers
>use perlite in their nursery mixes because herbs require much
>water.
Perlite is lighter in weight and easier to ship than lava or
turface, thus it's benefit to commercial growers.
Sandy Vrooman
"Complete possession is proved only by giving. All you are
unable to give possesses you." Andre Gide
Christopher Kenney
: Hi all.
: John Randecker
John,
The role of Turface and other such products is twofold. Because of
its hard particle nature, Turface allows the soil to drain quickly, not
only helping to avoid soggy root rot, but drawing all-important oxygen
down to the roots. It is almost impossible to overwater a properly draining
soil-medium because it does just that, drains. Being a clay product, it
does absorb some moisture, keeping the roots moist, not wet. This
absorbtion does not equal the capacity for heavier soil-mediums (my mix
doesn't involve any soil of course, but you get the idea) so , yes, you do
have to water it more often; but, except in the hottest summer days, once
a day is usually sufficient. You can fine-tune its water holding
capabilities by the other materials you add; I usually just add some pine
bark particles (basically the shredded landscape mulch, sifted to remove
the large chunks) some add sifted peat moss (only the large particles, no
fines please); but some grow in straight turface (only for those trees
that like a drier soil). The sifting is done to remove the fine turface
'dust', which would hinder the well draining capabilities.
Hope this answers some questions,
happy wiring
Chris Kenney
Thomas L. Zane
bonsai soil mix:
>My question is, what is it's purpose in Bonsai soil? Is it there to absorb
and hold moisture? From most of what I've read, too much moisture can be a
problem which is why (or at least one of the reasons why) a fairly coarse
soil is usually used for Bonsai.
The purpose of the calcinated clay is moisture retention, in the RIGHT
AMOUNT. You're right, constantly saturated soil is bad for most bonsai.
Calcinated clay, used in the right quantity, (mine is 1/4 part by volume)
retains enough moisture in my soil mix until watering the next day.
The coarse soil (I use coarse sand blasting sand, 1/4 part by volume) is to
provide the necessary aeriation and to force division of the hair roots.
The fine material in soil mixes is sieved out to prevent compacting of the
soil which would decrease aeration.
Anton Nijhuis
(micro-organism)- roots are considered as a living part of the soil.
Anything you add to improve one of the basic components is a soil amendment.
What I understand about soil amendments is;
Calcined clay such as Turface and others is widely used in soil mixtures for
greenhouse and container plantings because it is not as dense as sand. If
using the right particle size (soil structure), particle shape, the
irregular shape promotes stacking which creates pore space in the soil, and
in the right combination with other soil amendments will provide a good soil
texture. Texture effects the rate at which water percolates throught the soil.
To reduce pore space use more rounded particles ie washed sand instead of
crushed sand.
Calcined clay and organics such as bark mulch have mostly a negative charge
over their surface. Plants utilize positive charged ions (cations), cations
are attracted to the negative charged areas, therefore the cations are held
in place for the roots to absorb. Thus irregulary shaped calcined clay and
the particle size that is available helps provide; pore space, light weight,
retains moisture and a very low cation exchange capacity or cec. Aged fir or
pine bark have at least 15 times more cec than calcined clays, isolite etc.
We then can get into carbon to nitrogen ratio of our organic material (C:N).
Carbon compounds in organic materials are complex and the micro-organisms in
the soil that are responsible for breaking down these compounds use nitrogen
as fuel. A C:N ratio under 30:1 does not require additional nitrogen,
meaning that the soil would be depleted and the plant would not get any
nitrogen if the ratio was greater. Manure is 20:1, sawdust is 300:1 and
would require additional nitrogen.
Someone mentioned pine needles and they are rated as 75:1 and would require
additional nitogen. The ratios are aproximate but I am sure the information
is available at a government office regarding what organic amendment you
wish to use. I would recommend trying to use as much aged organic material
as possible than fesh.
Someone asked about orchid bark, I am sure it is just fir bark, fresh bark
does contain waxes and lignins but does break down over time. Landscapers
like to use fresh bark because of these properties. I buy fir bark in bulk
and let it age until it turns black, very hot to the touch. I then mulch it
mechanically to a size of 1/16" to 1/4" and let this age for awhile also. I
have sucessfully incorporated it in planter boxes, gardens in place of peat
moss which retains too much moisture in our west coast climate, and I use it
where people like to overwater.
Perlite generally lasts for up to five years, it is useful where weight is
of importance and is an excellent rooting medium for plant propagation.
It's drawbacks are that it is white, floats when watering and lies on top of
the soil.
All of this information can be had at your government office, which office
depends on what country you live in. I hope I am not confusing. The ratio
and the type of amendments you use is related to your cultural practice and
the best system may not be the best for you.
Anton Nijhuis
Earl Cormney
John Randecker writes,
>Hi all.
>I've seen Turface mentioned several times on this list and in the FAQ, but
>haven't heard of it otherwise.
>I gather from the rest of this thread that it's calcinated clay and is the sam
>thing used as oil dry in garages and such. My question is, what is it's
>purpose in Bonsai soil? Is it there to absorb and hold moisture? From most
>of what I've read, too much moisture can be a problem which is why (or at leas
>one of the reasons why) a fairly coarse soil is usually used for Bonsai. Mayb
>if you take out all the fine particles, there's nothing left to hold onto the
>moisture so we need to add something for that purpose (or need to water four
>times a day <g>)?
>I see I've rambled enough to let my complete ignorance on this topic show, so
>please enlighten me.
>John Randecker
John, turface drains very quickly and holds up wll to roots. It
encourages root growth and does not remain wet and soggy. Another use
for turface (fired clay) is with kitty litter. You can use kitty litter
if it does not have deoderant or other ingredients applied. Check the
clay to be sure it will not break down into mud by placing a spoon full
into water and let stand overnight. If the next day it is still chunky
and not mush, then it can be used. I like turface as it does work as a
coarse medium and is also chesp. in my area a 40# bag sell for about
$6.50 US while a bag of bonsai soil that is only about 2/3 volume sells
for about $20 US.
Seasons Greetings,
Earl Cormney
---
. SLMR 2.1a . All wiyht. Rho sritched mg kegtops awound?
Andrew W. Walsh
> Thus irregulary shaped calcined clay and
>the particle size that is available helps provide; pore space, light weight,
>retains moisture and a very low cation exchange capacity or cec. Aged fir or
>pine bark have at least 15 times more cec than calcined clays
Hi Anton,
Great post! Thanks!
Not to split hairs, but above you mention that clays have a "very low" cec.
It's my understanding that sands and loams have very low cec's (1-10
milliequivalents/100gm of soil), the clays have moderate levels (over 30) and
humus (e.g. aged fir or pine bark) have high levels (100-300). You only gave
a multiple so I thought I'd some actual values.
Thanks again for the post!
Andy
Anton Nijhuis
>It's my understanding that sands and loams have very low cec's (1-10
>milliequivalents/100gm of soil), the clays have moderate levels (over 30) and
>humus (e.g. aged fir or pine bark) have high levels (100-300). You only gave
>a multiple so I thought I'd some actual values.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wasn't sure on the values, but felt better to err on the lesser side. Thanks.
Why is a 'made up soil' called soiless - when it has the same ingredients as
soil?
Anton
Jim Warren
>Isolite is kiln fired diatomaceous earth which was advertised in an issue of
>"Bonsai Today". Its sold by New England Bonsai,(518) 883-2666. I assume from
>the description in the ad that it is a replacement for Turface, but I don,t
>know that. Has any one used this product?
>
>I consider myself a bonsai novice though I have had some experience with bonsai in
mentioned hoping to find something at a fair price and usuable consistancy is
what I need.I too still 'kill' off some plants w/o any apparent reason! Ficus
Rianne is really dif
ferent for me than the regular Ficus. Enjoy the Holidays. Jim