Every picture tells a story
Mara
Mara
Curt
>Here's a wild concept.
It is indeed a wild concept. Shelley Jackson's work titled "Skin" has
been mentioned in this ng previously.
>Would you do it?
No, but I know many who've participated. I think it's a very
interesting idea and I admire those who have joined in to complete the
story as imagined by Jackson.
>http://tinyurl.com/33csf
>
>Mara
http://tinyurl.com/2ke9g Same article, but there's a pic of Jackson
currently available at that tinyurl.com link.
--
Curt
http://iam.bmezine.com/?curt
http://www.curtjames.com/
i'll teach you to turn away.
C> interesting idea and I admire those who have joined in to complete the
C> story as imagined by Jackson.
i think it's utterly ridiculous. i don't like her concept, her
secrecy of the finished story, the rules she's requiring people to stick
to with regards to stylistic integrity - any of it. i heard about this
ages ago, & i've several friends who are "words" already, & i think it's
just terrible to tattoo yourself with a word you didn't even select, that
some self-professed author hands you & says "do it if you want to be in MY
book". it's very egotistic of her to think so many people would want to
be a part of this, & it's painfully submissive of others to consent so
avidly. what if the final story ends up being about how great communism
is? i'm more inclined to figure it'll be some stupid love story, but we
don't even know if she's any good as an author. judging by her website
alone, even with all my other objections aside, i wouldn't be a part of
her writing.
i don't admire anyone for wanting to be a part of this. everyone
gets their word, & they can reject it if they want, but everyone wants to
be some piece in this BIG EXCITING NEW IDEA so they figure out a WAY to
make "their word" relate to them. "OH I'M SO GLAD I GOT THIS WORD, IT'S
SO *ME*," said by people who have no idea who they are. are people THAT
desperate to fit in ANYWHERE that they'll get a tattoo chosen by a
complete stranger just to say they're a part? pathetic.
lish "broken hearts
cr...@got.net want broken necks." -mm
39.3% / 30 RANA 125 / 68
The Queen of Cans and Jars
yes.
and thank you for bringing her work to my attention. her website
<http://ineradicablestain.com/> is quite enjoyable.
Curt
>Curt <curt_...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote:
>>>Here's a wild concept.
>>>Would you do it?
>>> http://tinyurl.com/33csf
>C> No, but I know many who've participated. I think it's a very
>C> interesting idea and I admire those who have joined in to complete the
>C> story as imagined by Jackson.
>
> i think it's utterly ridiculous.
I wouldn't expect an egoist - note, I didn't say egotist - such as
yourself would find the idea appealing. You're also something of a
control freak and, yeah, that would run counter to having an author
send you a word to have tattooed on your body.
>some self-professed author
Regardless of your sex chart, healing html, and frequent posts to RAB,
BME, etc., Jackson is more of an author than you are, Lish. And she's
not merely *self*-professed as an author.
>don't even know if she's any good as an author.
You obviously haven't looked. Her work is available. You're jumping to
conclusions, I suspect, based on this idea rubbing you the wrong way.
> i don't admire anyone for wanting to be a part of this.
Bully for you.
>& they can reject it if they want,
I think that's incorrect, isn't it? You get your word and you're
supposed to use it whether you like it or not. That, I thought, was
part of the agreement to receive the word in the first place.
>but everyone wants to be some piece in this BIG EXCITING NEW
Everyone? A broad brush you're wielding there. Is it heavy?
>desperate to fit in ANYWHERE that they'll get a tattoo chosen by a
>complete stranger just to say they're a part?
Lish, you're an intelligent woman who has the problem of desperately
longing to NOT fit in anywhere. That must be difficult at best.
>pathetic.
And, damn. You *are* incorrect. You're simply bitching without doing
your homework. That's what I consider pathetic.
From: http://ineradicablestain.com/skin.html
| Participants must accept the word they are given,
Participants must accept the word they are given...
| but they may choose the site of their tattoo, with the exception
| of words naming specific body parts, which may be anywhere
| but the body part named. Tattoos must be in black ink and a
| classic book font. Words in fanciful fonts will be expunged
| from the work.
There's a lesson for you.
Read first, digest, understand, then comment. Or not.
>lish "broken hearts
>cr...@got.net want broken necks." -mm
>39.3% / 30 RANA 125 / 68
--
clingfire
What do all the volunteers have in common, that they would find the prospect
intriguing and would agree to do it? Is it to fit in, or not to fit in to
the mainstream? -jwm
"An artist has been defined as a neurotic who continually cures himself with
his art." - Lee Simonson
N Jill Marsh
>Here's a wild concept. Would you do it?
>
>http://tinyurl.com/33csf
No.
I find the concept deeply unappealing.
--
nj" "m
"Ya gotta pointy bra...ten inch waist. Long black stockin's all over
the place. Boots...buckles...belts outside. Whatcha got in there you
tryin' a-hide?"
Sunlight
> No, but I know many who've participated. I think it's a very
> interesting idea and I admire those who have joined in to complete the
> story as imagined by Jackson.
Yeah, there's a lot of people big on it on IAM isn't there, or there was
when I had an account not long ago. I don't find the project creepy, but I
definitely found the hysteria about it a little odd.
My personal feeling about the venture? There's one born every minute.
There are surely better ways to feel "special."
--
vanity domain: www.mssunlight.co.uk
i'll teach you to turn away.
C> lish wrote:
>>some self-professed author
C> Regardless of your sex chart, healing html, and frequent posts to R
C> BME, etc., Jackson is more of an author than you are, Lish. And she
C> not merely *self*-professed as an author.
i don't see how my authorship or lack thereof applies. or are
you on the bandwagon of "if you don't DO TATTOOS, you can't JUDGE
TATTOOS"?
>>don't even know if she's any good as an author.
C> You obviously haven't looked. Her work is available. You're jumping
C> conclusions, I suspect, based on this idea rubbing you the wrong wa
my point: how many people who agreed to this project have read
her books?
>>& they can reject it if they want,
C> I think that's incorrect, isn't it? You get your word and you're
C> supposed to use it whether you like it or not. That, I thought, was
C> part of the agreement to receive the word in the first place.
the information i was given from a participant was that you
can reject your word, but you don't get another chance to be in this.
C> Lish, you're an intelligent woman who has the problem of desperat
C> longing to NOT fit in anywhere. That must be difficult at best.
you utterly cannot comprehend me or what i want for my life.
you've proven this time & time again. stop.
C> And, damn. You *are* incorrect. You're simply bitching without doing
C> your homework. That's what I consider pathetic.
really. so, you've read the contract signed by participants &
not just the short printed information on the site?
C> From: http://ineradicablestain.com/skin.html
C> | Participants must accept the word they are given,
C> Participants must accept the word they are given...
good of you to repeat this for us.
C> Read first, digest, understand, then comment. Or not.
C> Read first, digest, understand, then comment. Or not.
lish "i don't tell lies
cr...@got.net & so do you." -gb
Curt
> you utterly cannot comprehend me or what i want for my life.
>you've proven this time & time again. stop.
Was that an early lesson or a rant? June's still a few days away.
--
Richard Hunter
turn away.) coughed and sputtered, and managed to choke out these
words:
<Snip>
>it's very egotistic of her to think so many people would want to
>be a part of this, & it's painfully submissive of others to consent so
>avidly.
very interesting that you should choose those words.
david
--
"There's obviously a need for fashionable codpieces."
-Poetic Badgers, AF, 04/14/04
Curt
> i don't see how my authorship or lack thereof applies.
You seemed to see how Jackson's "self-professed" authorship applied.
What's your differentiation on that count? Rhetorical.
>>>don't even know if she's any good as an author.
>C> You obviously haven't looked. Her work is available. <snip>
>
> my point: how many people who agreed to this project have read
>her books?
Oh, THAT was your point. Well, then, I do apologize. It seemed to my
pedantic mind that you were saying that Jackson is merely some
self-professed author who probably doesn't even write well. How could
I have missed your point?
>>>& they can reject it if they want,
>C> I think that's incorrect<snip>
> the information i was given from a participant was that you
>can reject your word, but you don't get another chance to be<snip>
I hope that participant chose not to be a word in that case. If they
offered you any of Jackson's paperwork I'd imagine (perhaps
incorrectly) they'd also offer you a copy of the finished story. That
possibility runs contrary to the author's intent and the participants'
agreement.
>C> From: http://ineradicablestain.com/skin.html <snip>
i'll teach you to turn away.
C> lish cr...@got.net replied:
>> i don't see how my authorship or lack thereof applies.
C> What's your differentiation on that count? Rhetorical.
she refers to herself as an author. therefore, she's a
self-professed author. is it really that difficult to grasp this?
>> my point: how many people who agreed to this project have read
>>her books?
C> Oh, THAT was your point. Well, then, I do apologize. It seemed to my
C> pedantic mind that you were saying that Jackson is merely some
C> self-professed author who probably doesn't even write well. How could
C> I have missed your point?
uh, i don't know, but you consistently DO.
>> the information i was given from a participant was that you
>>can reject your word, but you don't get another chance to be<snip>
C> I hope that participant chose not to be a word in that case. If they
C> offered you any of Jackson's paperwork I'd imagine (perhaps
C> incorrectly) they'd also offer you a copy of the finished story. That
C> possibility runs contrary to the author's intent and the participants'
C> agreement.
as i already stated, i was given THAT INFORMATION from the
participant. i wasn't given a copy of the story nor was i faxed the
rest of the paperwork. i asked about rejecting a word, she answered me.
okay? are you with us here?
lish "the opinions that i don't give
cr...@got.net are the opinions i don't got." -mm
i'll teach you to turn away.
>> you utterly cannot comprehend me or what i want for my life.
>>you've proven this time & time again. stop.
what does june have to do with anything?
lish "is there any word that 'not' sounds
cr...@got.net better in front of than 'pregnant'?" -bh
i'll teach you to turn away.
RH> On 15 May 2004 17:30:02 GMT, cr...@got.net (i'll teach you to
>>it's very egotistic of her to think so many people would want to
>>be a part of this, & it's painfully submissive of others to consent so
>>avidly.
i choose every word i use very carefully.
lish "you say you can see
cr...@got.net the frost on my breath." -nmn
Curt
> she refers to herself as an author. therefore, she's a
>self-professed author. is it really that difficult to grasp this?
You were being literal? Give me a break. You weren't using
self-professed as a pejorative? Sell it, baby. Spin d o c t o r!
> as i already stated, i was given THAT INFORMATION from the
>participant. i wasn't given a copy of the story nor was i faxed the
>rest of the paperwork. i asked about rejecting a word, she answered me.
Again, I must've missed your point. You seemed to be implying
(elsewhere in this thread) that you had seen any and all
paperwork/documentation.
>okay?
Not especially.
>are you with us here?
No. I'm over "here":
| really. so, you've read the contract signed by participants &
| not just the short printed information on the site?
Never safe to assume, I suppose, but those words - your words - led me
to believe that you had read an actual contract and that it expressed
something different compared to http://ineradicablestain.com/
Curt
>Curt <curt_...@nospamhotmail.com> wrote:
>>> you utterly cannot comprehend me or what i want for my life.
>>>you've proven this time & time again. stop.
>C> Was that an early lesson or a rant? June's still a few days away.
>
> what does june have to do with anything?
This is May. June's next. *In* May, you wrote (elsewhere in this ng):
| this has been your one explanation for this month.
Lesson versus explanation. Got it. Rant? No. Side-step? More likely.
iliad awry - far too well-washed and not whorey enough
away.) formulated spare electrons thusly:
| some self-professed author
Frankly, I find having had a few books published (in a non-on-demand
fashion) offers one the right to profess oneself an author. Not
necessarily a good author, but an author nonetheless. Much like
serving food in a restaurant offers all the necessary authenticity to
one's claim to be a "waiter" (or "waitress). An author is what you are
when companies pay you so they can print your work under your name.
"Self-professed" implies that it's not verifiable, when in this case
it is.
| we
| don't even know if she's any good as an author.
This we can find out by reading her books, if we care to. (I've read a
few of them myself; they're indeed available.)
Cassie
--
Reply: cassie at iliadawry dawt org.
"Rather than sending him to jail, they made him a Duke of Leeds."
-Reg, a.f.n-g, 3.7.2003
Curt
lish cr...@got.net <snip>
>
>| some self-professed author
>
>Frankly, I find having had a few books published (in a non-on-demand
>fashion) offers one the right to profess oneself an author. Not
>necessarily a good author, but an author nonetheless. Much like
>serving food in a restaurant offers all the necessary authenticity to
>one's claim to be a "waiter" (or "waitress). An author is what you are
>when companies pay you so they can print your work under your name.
>"Self-professed" implies that it's not verifiable, when in this case
>it is.
>
>| we don't even know if she's any good as an author.
>
>This we can find out by reading her books, if we care to. (I've read a
>few of them myself; they're indeed available.)
See, lish? You said (elsewhere in this ng) that you choose your words
carefully. That, however, does not preclude you from also choosing
them incorrectly. Or, for that matter, from trying to justify those
errors when pointed out.
(slips into Barney costume)
(begins to sing...)
"I love yoooou, you hate meeeee!"
(honks horn)
"Cassie, you coming? This barge is heading t' Boston. Select the
stations and I promise to keep my big, purple mouth shut the length of
the trip."
(skit ends, curtain falls)
Richard Hunter
turn away.) coughed and sputtered, and managed to choke out these
words:
>Richard Hunter <returnt...@ddressunknown.com> wrote:
>RH> On 15 May 2004 17:30:02 GMT, cr...@got.net (i'll teach you to
>>>it's very egotistic of her to think so many people would want to
>>>be a part of this, & it's painfully submissive of others to consent so
>>>avidly.
>RH> very interesting that you should choose those words.
>
> i choose every word i use very carefully.
i'm not saying you don't.
interesting, nevertheless.
Xaonon
<domfr...@earthlink.net> teithant i thiw hin:
> Here's a wild concept. Would you do it?
>
> http://tinyurl.com/33csf
Indeed; I had sent an e-mail in application, but, alas, have heard nothing
back. Maybe it just got lost in the noise. Even a simple "Sorry, not you"
would make me feel a little better than just static.
Regarding some of lish's comments: I can't speak for others, of course, but
for me it's the concept as a whole that I find so weirdly fascinating, for
some reason I find difficult to explain. The actual word, or in fact the
sum total of the words making up the story, would be secondary at best. It
could be a chapter from Mein Kampf for all I care, whatever. The important
thing is the process, and being part of a larger project. Maybe it appeals
to my nature as a geek to be one element of a story---i.e. an ordered set of
words---in such an inherently unordered representation. Line up all the
words and have them swap positions randomly. How long before they reproduce
the story by chance? Entropy is k ln Omega, but not all the words are
unique...
Or maybe I just have to give her a gold star for audacity. It's a sweet
experiment.
--
Xaonon, EAC Chief of Mad Scientists and informal BAAWA, aa #1821, Kibo #: 1
http://xaonon.dyndns.org/ Guaranteed content-free since 1999. No refunds.
"Uploading isn't a >H goal because it's one step closer to some mythical and
unknowable perfection, but because it'll be jolly practical." -- Rich Artym
i'll teach you to turn away.
C> lish cr...@got.net replied:
>> she refers to herself as an author. therefore, she's a
>>self-professed author. is it really that difficult to grasp this?
C> self-professed as a pejorative? Sell it, baby. Spin d o c t o r!
what do you want, curt? what will make you shut up? is she or is
she NOT a self-professed author? she makes claims on her site that she's
an author. so are you done?
>> as i already stated, i was given THAT INFORMATION from the
>>participant. i wasn't given a copy of the story nor was i faxed the
>>rest of the paperwork. i asked about rejecting a word, she answered me.
C> Again, I must've missed your point. You seemed to be implying
C> (elsewhere in this thread) that you had seen any and all
C> paperwork/documentation.
spin it yourself. your incorrect inferences are your own.
C> Never safe to assume, I suppose, but those words - your words - led me
C> to believe that you had read an actual contract and that it expressed
C> something different compared to http://ineradicablestain.com/
'led you to believe' indeed. that makes your miscomprehension
not your fault, right?
lish "everybody has a question
cr...@got.net if not an adoring letter." -jc
i'll teach you to turn away.
ia> On 15 May 2004 17:30:02 GMT, cr...@got.net (i'll teach you to turn
ia> | some self-professed author
ia> Frankly, I find having had a few books published (in a non-on-demand
ia> fashion) offers one the right to profess oneself an author. Not
ia> necessarily a good author, but an author nonetheless. Much like
ok! so disagree with my word choice. that's fine. same goes for
you, curt. I AM OKAY WITH YOU NOT LIKING THE WORDS I PICKED.
now tell me WHY the biggest debate is on my use of
"self-professed" & not on the valid points i wrote into that post.
lish "you never
cr...@got.net make it easy." -sc
Curt
><snip>so are you done?
No.
> spin it yourself.
Not necessary.
>C> Never safe to assume, I suppose, but those words - your words - led me
>C> to believe that you had read an actual contract and that it expressed
>C> something different compared to http://ineradicablestain.com/
>
> 'led you to believe' indeed. that makes your miscomprehension
>not your fault, right?
Certainly, I believe your intent was to offer an impression that you
(as you seemingly often do) See All and Know All. That belief is not a
miscomprehension on my part, is it?
Curt
--
iliad awry - far too well-washed and not whorey enough
away.) formulated spare electrons thusly:
| now tell me WHY the biggest debate is on my use of
| "self-professed" & not on the valid points i wrote into that post.
Because the rest of it was opinion, and I have no desire to argue
opinion with you. Or such is /my/ reasoning, anyway.
I staunchly refuse to speak for Curt.
Keith Alexander®
<curt_...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote:
>Certainly, I believe your intent was to offer an impression that you
>(as you seemingly often do) See All and Know All. That belief is not a
>miscomprehension on my part, is it?
Dude. STFU. Seriously. Just stop.
---
k e i t h a l e x a n d e r
http://www.nootrope.net
http://www.modernamerican.com
aim: nootrope9 splurt
- - e n d t r a n s m i s s i o n - -
Erica
> i think it's utterly ridiculous. i don't like her concept, her
> secrecy of the finished story, the rules she's requiring people to stick
> to with regards to stylistic integrity - any of it. i heard about this
> ages ago, & i've several friends who are "words" already, & i think it's
> just terrible to tattoo yourself with a word you didn't even select, that
> some self-professed author hands you & says "do it if you want to be in MY
> book". it's very egotistic of her to think so many people would want to
> be a part of this, & it's painfully submissive of others to consent so
> avidly.
She goes to school with my boyfriend (they're both working on Masters
degrees at http://www.egs.edu ). She brought it up last summer as an
interesting idea she had, but didn't actually think that people would
want to participate. Since the first mention on BME, she said that
she's been swamped with participants.
If you could write a story and get a bunch of people to get the words
tattooed on themselves without knowing the story, wouldn't you do it,
at least for a lark? ;)
FWIW, I don't really "get" the idea. I see how it can be justified
with a bunch of pseudo-philosophical rhetoric, but for the most part I
think that she's just trying to be different for the sole sake of
being different.
Erica
> Richard Hunter <returnt...@ddressunknown.com> wrote:
> RH> very interesting that you should choose those words.
>
> i choose every word i use very carefully.
Unlike the participants in the SKIN project, HAR HAR!!@#
Uh, yeah. That was bad. Couldn't resist.
i'll teach you to turn away.
E> cr...@got.net (i'll teach you to turn away.) wrote in message
E> Uh, yeah. That was bad. Couldn't resist.
finally, someone gets me for JUST ONE SECOND IN MY LIFE.
lish "forget it," he said.
cr...@got.net "oral sex gives me amnesia." -sk
i'll teach you to turn away.
E> If you could write a story and get a bunch of people to get the words
E> tattooed on themselves without knowing the story, wouldn't you do it,
E> at least for a lark? ;)
eh. i'd rather do a project where i convince people to go out &
get black eyes, then send me photographs of the results.
hmm.
PATENT PENDING, COPYRIGHT (C)2004 LISH DAELNAR ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
lish "it's so fuckingly, boringly
cr...@got.net retarded here." -jg
The Queen of Cans and Jars
> Erica <er...@technodyke.com> wrote:
> E> If you could write a story and get a bunch of people to get the words
> E> tattooed on themselves without knowing the story, wouldn't you do it,
> E> at least for a lark? ;)
>
> eh. i'd rather do a project where i convince people to go out &
> get black eyes, then send me photographs of the results.
>
> hmm.
>
> PATENT PENDING, COPYRIGHT (C)2004 LISH DAELNAR ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
you should totally do that.