White Nuts...
Garland Operator 7-G
be better for me not to...
----- Matthew Clark writes:
>Sorry Carl, I've gotta disagree with you about the name change of "White Nuts"
>to "White Knights" (the idea of Macek having sense regardless). The point
>is that the name was not something that the translators had to fight over
>in terms of figuring it out, the name "White Nuts" was quite clear
I can understand why people are upset about the translation of the name. I get
a little miffed when they do that also, but I think "White Knights" sounds
better.
>(I have
>the entire run and some of the CD's. There was no mistake in naming JJ and
>co. the White Nuts. It is a play on words in that for you to join a team
>of three people who are supposed to take on the entire Noza Army by themselves
>implies that you'd have to be NUTS to do so... You can see that naming was
>deliberate.
True... After watching the Streamline episodes I went back to an old issue of
Animag (#7?) to find out more info. It was here I found out they were
originally called White Nuts. I laughed and said, "That kinda figures!" from
your statement above. I still feel "White Knights" sounds better. I couldn't
take it seriously if White Nuts was used (then again, I can't take it
seriously anway). Why that one to bring over of all things?!
My girlfriend actually has an old Zillion gun (the Matchbox release). I was
suprised that it still works.
>As for Macek, if it were a matter of simple nitpicking, fine. But this
>is NOT a matter of Macek doing the best that he can. If he is REALLY
>committed to bring high quality animation, then he knows darn well that he's
>aiming at an audience that is going to be able to KNOW when something has
>been tampered with. But his apparent "ignorance" of the matter keeps
>telling me different.
How trendy it is to bash Carl Macek!
Time for the 2 minute hate session.
I do agree that there were some things he did in the past to bastardize
animation. Most of those I think were because his hands were tied
(ie. Harmony Gold was Judge and Jury --- he was Executioner). There are other
things I think he DID screw up. For his sake, I think for the future that he
should put his name in a smaller font on future releases.
I still think this would be a good idea for an AnimeCon event:
FOR A CHARITY: Have a dunking booth with the water being colored green with
some leaves or some such things in it. Have Carl Macek volunteer for it.
DUNK CARL MACEK INTO A VAT OF PROTOCULTURE: $1 a throw.
It would be a good way for fans to relieve their frustrations/hate. If I was
Carl I would volunteer just to get it all out in the open (ie. all this Macek
bashing behind his back) and it would be for a good charity cause.
BTW: Mike, Is the "An Hour Bash with Carl Macek" panel still on for
AnimeCon. I might attend this one just to see the fur fly. :-)
Domo. Ja na.
Brandon Freels (Garland Operator 7-G)
bra...@aardvark.ucs.uoknor.edu -or- bra...@uokucsvx.bitnet
"I'm witty naturally, I don't need quotes."
Matthew Clark
Trendy Brandon? No, I don't me "bashing" of Macek has anything to do with
a "trend" per say. I judge him of the merits of his work. If he started
producing releases that I found good, then I would credit him for it.
(I hate to admit it, sorry young pre-pubescent, hormone ridden, violence
prone fans, but I preferred LAPUTA to AKIRA. However, Reba's voice gnawed
at my stomach like a band of hungry termites...)
What would make me happy would be if at ANIMECON, Macek came right out
and ASKED us, the paying fans, what WE wanted, and how we wanted it. As
far as I can tell, he hasn't tapped into the single most important resource
he can have, US.
Rumor mill: Someone told me that he also is trying to get, if he already
hasn't, SHURATO...(he screws that series up...)
Mike M. Tatsugawa
>> How trendy it is to bash Carl Macek...
Stuff Deleted
>What would make me happy would be if at ANIMECON, Macek came right out
>and ASKED us, the paying fans, what WE wanted, and how we wanted it. As
>far as I can tell, he hasn't tapped into the single most important resource
>he can have, US.
Wrong. As far as Streamline is concerned, we, the fans should be the
ones he cares about the least. He knows that we will go see Akira or
Laputa no matter how bad a job he's done. It's the mainstream where
the money is. Every time I talk to Carl about something, all he talks
about is business or money. Of course my relationship with him is
slightly more professional than most calls he gets, but I really don't
think he cares that much about the fans. Instead of catering to the
needs and desires of 10,000 anime fans, he will water things down so
that it appeals to the 1,000,000 fans out there who wouldn't understand
the "insider" cultural jokes and who would like character names that they
can pronounce. If I were in his position and wanted to make as much money
as possible, I'd probably end up following a similar path. Other
companies like AnimEigo and U.S. Renditions are trying to see what
the fans want, and although some of the earlier efforts were a bit
clumsy, they listen to our outcries and try to make each successive
product better. My only hope is that CPM, the new kid on the block
follows this tradition. (BTW, their latest video release scheduled
for September/October is "Minna Ni Agechou". We may be running the
subbed 16mm at AnimeCon.)
Mike
Dan Su
>In article <1991Aug1....@nic.csu.net>, sho...@sutro.SFSU.EDU (Mike M. Tatsugawa) writes:
>[...]
>> My only hope is that CPM, the new kid on the block
>> follows this tradition. (BTW, their latest video release scheduled
>> for September/October is "Minna Ni Agechou". We may be running the
>> subbed 16mm at AnimeCon.)
>
Could this be "Minna Agechau" (I'm All Yours)?
I saw the live-action version (is there an anime version? I don't know)
and I thought it was a blast :)
It's about this high school girl from a ridiculously rich family who falls
for a poor ronin (student). Their first meeting is, uh, very unusual.
(picture a girl showing up at your door saying, "Do you need a virgin?")
I suppose you could describe it as an offbeat, raunchy comedy.
-Dan Su O
da...@ocf.berkeley.edu o o Studio 3x3
Roger Penaranda Jr. Ang
>> However, Reba's voice gnawed
>> at my stomach like a band of hungry termites...)
>Streamline's version of Laputa.)
>--
> E n r i q u e C o n t y
> The Amazing Man-With-No-Life
> jes...@ihlpl.att.com
Matthew,
I have no idea what you're talking about if the Reba West
reference is towards the version of Laputa released by Streamline. I
saw it way back and I didn't recognize any of the voices as being from
the InterSound clique. It was a damn good dubbing, could have editted
one line ("We can go all the way."), and MUCH better that the dubbing
done on Akira. Also, I thought rumors were that that version of
Laputa was NOT dubbed by Streamline. Rumor was a Japanese company did
the dubbing and Streamline got the theatrical distribution rights,
probably why it was so good. I think I also heard rumors that
Streamline didn't get video rights or may have lost all some rights or
something. Please tell me I'm wrong!!! (Mike T., do you have the
answers?) I probably would pay up towards $40 for that version on
tape (SP, letter-boxed, HIFI of course). It's that good, I think.
On a different note, I think I heard about an English version
of Totoro and some people said it was good, my mind could be going
though (as if it already hasn't :-). If so, why wasn't it given wider,
mainstream release. Except maybe for the bath scene, this film would
rival Disney films in story and family flavor, and it even fits into
the "90-minute attention span" stupidity.
Can anybody give me a list of feature length stuff (>30 minutes) that
Streamline has/intends to release?
Roger P. Ang (ra...@laputa.ics.uci.edu)
"Explode into pieces, you human!" Grad student at the
-Princess Asrial Dept. of Information & Computer Sci.
Ninja High School Univ. of California, Irvine.
Mike M. Tatsugawa
U.S. Manga Corps is releasing it under the title "I give my all".
From the press release I've read, your description seems apt. With the
first 1,000 order will come a souvenir panty in the box. The "Art of
Minna Ni Agechau" had a lot of black boxes in it...
Mike
Conty
> My only hope is that CPM, the new kid on the block
> follows this tradition. (BTW, their latest video release scheduled
> for September/October is "Minna Ni Agechou". We may be running the
> subbed 16mm at AnimeCon.)
"Minna Ni Agechou"? Please explain.
Conty
>
> Trendy Brandon? No, I don't me "bashing" of Macek has anything to do with
> a "trend" per say. I judge him of the merits of his work. If he started
> producing releases that I found good, then I would credit him for it.
Streamline Pictures has had an average track record so far. Some good stuff
(Akira, Laputa, Robot Carnival, Nadia) and some bad stuff (Lensman, Fist of
the North Star, Zillion).
> (I hate to admit it, sorry young pre-pubescent, hormone ridden, violence
> prone fans, but I preferred LAPUTA to AKIRA.
...and so do most of the people I've asked. So what's your point?
BTW, Laputa was released in English by Streamline (Beck & Macek),
if you didn't know...
> However, Reba's voice gnawed
> at my stomach like a band of hungry termites...)
??? Do you mean that "Reba West" did the voice for Lusheeta? (I missed
Streamline's version of Laputa.)
Doing a good dubbing of a movie is VERY difficult to do, be it animation
or live action. I say we give these guys some break in their choices of
voice actors. (But not too much, lest we get another "Colonel McGruff" :-))
P.S. Re: Zillion. Changing the names of places, characters and organizations
is only natural when dubbing -- sometimes the original name is
nigh-unpronounceable or obscene in the target language. The Beatles had
a different name in Germany for this very reason.
I don't mind changing the group's name from "White Nuts" to "White Knights".
It sounds better, and it's worse material for blue jokes as the original name.
Mike M. Tatsugawa
>In article <1991Aug1.1...@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> co...@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Conty) writes:
>>In article <910801164...@sol.csee.usf.edu>, clark%sol.csee...@VTVM1.CC.VT.EDU (Matthew Clark) writes:
> I have no idea what you're talking about if the Reba West
>reference is towards the version of Laputa released by Streamline. I
>saw it way back and I didn't recognize any of the voices as being from
>the InterSound clique. It was a damn good dubbing, could have editted
>one line ("We can go all the way."), and MUCH better that the dubbing
>done on Akira. Also, I thought rumors were that that version of
>Laputa was NOT dubbed by Streamline. Rumor was a Japanese company did
>the dubbing and Streamline got the theatrical distribution rights,
>probably why it was so good. I think I also heard rumors that
>Streamline didn't get video rights or may have lost all some rights or
>something. Please tell me I'm wrong!!! (Mike T., do you have the
>answers?) I probably would pay up towards $40 for that version on
>tape (SP, letter-boxed, HIFI of course). It's that good, I think.
I THINK that Streamline did the dubbing. When I last went to their
office, I saw them physically working on Kiki and Totoro, so I can
confirm those.
> On a different note, I think I heard about an English version
>of Totoro and some people said it was good, my mind could be going
>though (as if it already hasn't :-). If so, why wasn't it given wider,
>mainstream release.
In the case of Totoro and Kiki, Streamline made the mistaken
assumption that if they did the dubbing work for the Japanese, they
would be allowed to distribute the film. They were wrong. They were
blowing their horns about their next production, and the Japanese
pulled the plug. Macek has been getting away with paying ridiculously
low prices on everything. Perhaps the Japanese realized that a
Miyazaki was worth more than peanuts. (The reason why they got
Cagliostro was because TMS owned it, and they didn't protect the family
jewels like they should have. They even threw in a remakably accurate
script for free. :-() Kiki dubbed is available on
international flights to and from Japan, but that's it for
distribution. Suffice it to say that expect Kiki and Totoro to be in
your local theater in two to three years. Streamline will probably be
out of the picture. The dubs were quite good by the way.
Mike (AKA shogun)
Marvin Nakajima
pretty funny.
Hyun-kil Choi
Well, from what I've heard, Laputa was a Streamline production where
they sought voice actors and actresses with similar voice QUALITIES as
in the original production while Akira was done totally by a Japanese
team with Streamline being the distributors. And also, I heard that
Totoro hasn't been released because of various legal problems and such
nonsense. This may be because of the subtitled version mentioned in
Animenominous issue 3 the author of the article found in his local video
storeentitled "Spirit of the Woods". I'd say that is a definite
conflict in rights ownership.
k.choi
(still not sure whether this
works or not!)
--
The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the University of
North Carolina at Chapel Hill, the Campus Office for Information
Technology, or the Experimental Bulletin Board Service.
internet: bbs.oit.unc.edu or 128.109.157.30
Matthew Clark
<All that stuff about Macek... too much to mention.>
Should be the least he cares about? WE ALREADY ARE! I can understand
him wanting to make a buck, this is America after all. But for crying
out loud, he SHOULD (using the term loosely) have more sense in choosing
what he brings over. What was to water down in LAPUTA? AKIRA?
If he chose anime smartly, he would choose anime that did not require
"watering down." If the rumor mill is true (can you verify?) and he
DID in fact get the rights to SHURATO? WHY??????????? He and I and
everyone else who's seen the show knows that the series is steeply
entrenched in elements of Hinduism and Buddhism. How in the hell
is he going to bring it over without castrating the series in the same
fashion GATCHAMAN received in BTOP.
If his attitude to the die hard anime fan is : Tough Sh*t, I'm gonna
do it however the hell I please, then I have absolutely no qualms about
baking his nuts over the flames of discontent. (To quote a phrase:
F*ck me? Nooooo, f*ck you.)
Matt
cl...@screamer.csee.usf.edu
I'm truly sorry to flame out like that Mike, I don't mean anything
personal. And please forgive the language.
Matthew Clark
In regards to "White Knights" and all that, I suppose I am a purist and
an opnionated one at that. I realize that certain things can, and
POSSIBLY should, be changed for the sake of the Western audience. But
I think that's its a two way street. Everything should NOT have to be
"watered down" because it a> takes away from the original flavor of
the anime, and b> smites of condescention on the translator's by in effect
saying that the American audience aren't smart enough or sophisticated
enough to handle too complex. (Forgive my grammar error above.)
Think of it this way:
What if someone came along and did Gundam translated? (I heard that
they had already? Anyone?) And what if they decided that they didn't
like the name Char, but instead chose to call him BOB. (I admit it sounds
silly, but it could happen with another series.) What would you think?
I suppose it would depend on what you thought of Gundam in the first place,
but to me, it would be a complete and total travesty. (Gundam, not Robotech,
got me into anime, and not because of the mecha.) Get my point?
Matthew Clark
In regards to the post you just wrote, I don't know who's post you
were commenting about, but it wasn't mine. Sorry if I somehow confused
you.
Conty
>
> Everything should NOT have to be "watered down"
Of course not.
> What if someone came along and did Gundam translated? (I heard that
> they had already? Anyone?) And what if they decided that they didn't
> like the name Char, but instead chose to call him BOB. (I admit it sounds
> silly, but it could happen with another series.) What would you think?
If I didn't know the original series, and the series was otherwise unchanged,
and the series was good, I wouldn't care much.
Case in point: when I first saw Captain Harlock (the original) and Space
Cruiser Yamato, they were dubbed in Spanish. For some reason they changed
the names for all the characters. Derek Wildstar became "Febo"; the "Yamato"
became the "Intrepido"; the "Arcadia" became the "Neptuno"; Captain Harlock
became "Capitan Raymar". I didn't know what the real names were. Now that
I know, it still doesn't matter, and I'll tell you why. It doesn't matter
because the stories were good, the characters interesting, and the animation
artful.
Conty
>
> What was to water down in LAPUTA? AKIRA?
I don't understand. In which way did Streamline "water down" these two movies?
I've seen the Japanese and Streamline versions of Akira, and they look the
same.
> If the rumor mill is true (can you verify?) and he
> DID in fact get the rights to SHURATO? WHY???????????
Because he made a good offer to the Japanese owners. Duhh. :-) :-)
> He and I and
> everyone else who's seen the show knows that the series is steeply
> entrenched in elements of Hinduism and Buddhism. How in the hell
> is he going to bring it over without castrating the series in the same
> fashion GATCHAMAN received in BTOP.
He'll just market is as an action/adventure (or whatever Shurato is, I haven't
seen it) heavy with mystical oriental references. Or something like that.
Have faith in the power of Creative Marketing, Matthew! ;-)
> If his attitude to the die hard anime fan is : Tough Sh*t, I'm gonna
> do it however the hell I please,
Ditto!
> then I have absolutely no qualms about
> baking his nuts over the flames of discontent.
Note: this line doesn't have any relation to the title of this posting. :-)
david mou
>I have the manga version issues 1-17,19 and the situations they get into are
>pretty funny.
What?!?! You're missing #18?! That means you are missing the Stadium Orgy
Party episode, the one with 50 guys trying to give orgasm to sex robots while
60,000+ people are watching. <insert massive smily :->
My first reaction to the CPM choice of dub, "Oh Gawd!!"
Second reaction, "Who'll bring it to a.b.?"
O
d.n.a.b. dav...@ocf.berkeley.edu studio 3x3 o o
"Look Mom! New Sig."
Edward S.T. Wang
>Yup, Reba West did Lusheeta...can you imagine the nausea?
Actually, Reba West doing Sheeta's voice wasn't that bad. I knew they were
going to use her voice before I saw the movie, so I was expecting the worst.
It wasn't as bad as I expected. It was okay. However, Pazu's voice
irritated me. It was simply too scratchy.
I don't agree with everything Streamline has done, but I think some
certain things should be pointed out in their favor. Streamline has brought
anime into the theaters and showed the movies on the format in which they
were originally intended -- on the big screen. They did not change or hack
up the stories as was done in Battle of the Planets or Robotech. They did
not water down or kiddify the stories. They even left in the original sound
track. When was this ever done before?
In my opinion, Streamline's main failing has been the voice acting.
They been using too many Robotech voices. Since many of us were major
Robotech fans, we are all too familiar with these voices, and have already
come to associate the voices with specific characters. These voices
have been typecast. Another problem has been that the voices simply didn't
match the characters. This was especially the case in Akira. On the other
hand, this could have been due to the fact that I was already used to the
original Japanese voices.
If Streamline can only get the voices right, then 90% of the
problems I have with their work would be solved.
Edward Wang
Josh Mercer
"acquired" them somewhere along the way. I never have gotten to see the
English version of Laputa, but I've heard nothing but good about it.
Streamline's Totoro, however, was excellent. However, I'm not sure what
happened to their rights to it, whether or not they lost the rights like they
did with Kiki's.
Were you referring to quality of the original or the Streamline translations
on your list? I didn't think the English Nadia was out. But as for Robot
Carnival, I have to say I really disliked that one. It wasn't so much the new
order of the films, but the really insulting "ah, so!" accents (by Robotech
voices) in a Tale of Two Robots. I could understand redubbing the doctor's
lines (they're hard to understand in the original English in parts), but
making all the other characters talk with stereotyped Japanese accents was
really offensive.
By the bye, hi there. I'm new.
UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd ucsd nosc}!crash!pnet01!joshm
ARPA: crash!pnet01!jo...@nosc.mil
INET: jo...@pnet01.cts.com
Michael Studte
>>Yup, Reba West did Lusheeta...can you imagine the nausea?
>Actually, Reba West doing Sheeta's voice wasn't that bad. I knew they were
>going to use her voice before I saw the movie, so I was expecting the worst.
>It wasn't as bad as I expected. It was okay. However, Pazu's voice
>irritated me. It was simply too scratchy.
Huh? I don't remember Reba's name in the credits (or recognise her voice)?
I know that a Bertha someone played Pazu, but I'm still wondering if it was
actually the Streamline version that I saw... Anyone know if there's more
than one version???
It could always be that Reba has learned a bit of control over her voice
(although in both Robotech and Undersea Adventure [oh why was the hero in
that one ALSO called Rick???] she was Minmei 100%) and that she doesn't want
the name Reba West to turn away anime fandom from other work she has done
(how many different names does Jimmy Flinders/James Avery go by anyway?)
Maybe we need a new voice actor list, one with american actor's pseudonyms?
>have been typecast. Another problem has been that the voices simply didn't
>match the characters. This was especially the case in Akira. On the other
>hand, this could have been due to the fact that I was already used to the
>original Japanese voices.
Yes well, Max Sterling as Kaneda just didn't work for me... It didn't match
his image, although I must say the dialogue somewhat made up for it.
+-------------------+-----------------------------------------+-----------+
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David Loo
>In article <2898B0D...@ics.uci.edu> ra...@ics.uci.edu (Roger Penaranda Jr. Ang) writes:
>>In article <1991Aug1.1...@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> co...@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (Conty) writes:
>>Also, I thought rumors were that that version of
>>Laputa was NOT dubbed by Streamline. Rumor was a Japanese company did
>>the dubbing and Streamline got the theatrical distribution rights,
>>probably why it was so good.
>
>office, I saw them physically working on Kiki and Totoro, so I can
>confirm those.
>
Streamline didn't do the dubbing for Laputa or for Akira though they
did have a hand in "recommending" voice actors. Streamline was only
contracted for distribution of Laputa. As for Totoro and Kiki, yes,
Streamline did do the dubbing themselves.
- Nausicaa Lover
michael house
>U.S. Manga Corps is releasing it under the title "I give my all".
>From the press release I've read, your description seems apt. With the
>first 1,000 order will come a souvenir panty in the box. The "Art of
>Minna Ni Agechau" had a lot of black boxes in it...
It is "Minna Agechau" (no "ni"). And I'd say that Central Park Media, under
the name of U.S. Manga Corps, has high standards. They hired AnimEigo (that's
us) to translate and subtitle it for them, and we just finished mastering it,
as of this writing.
Also, they are trying to get a 16mm print for AnimeCon, but the latest word I
have is that it won't be subtitled, unfortunately. I'd like to see it in that
format, but it's too close to AnimeCon now. And the release date I have from
CPM is Oct. 23, as of last week.
Matthew Clark
let me set up an analogy. It is not an uncommon thing for foreign
authors (of books) to have their works translated into other languages and
sold abroad. Now, any company with any sense of professionalism will take
every expense to be sure that the translation is as faithful to the
original work as possible because it is NOT their work to tamper with.
Just because they gained the rights to translate the material did not
give them the rights to tamper with it in ANY fashion. For that matter,
professional ethics would exclude such behavior. If and when you go to
AnimeCon, we can all ask the guests what their position on such "tampering"
is. I may be wrong and they really don't give a flip, so long as they're
getting paid enough. But I asked a few friends of mine, aspiring authors,
how they would feel if they found out that their supposed translation,
was not a translation at all. Everyone I asked said that they would be
enraged.
In any event, IMHO, what may seem like a simple change of name, can,
if not does, lead to the idea of changing more. Can you imagine your
impression of Char Aznable, if you DID NOT see the scene where he betrayed
Garma Zabi and laughed while Garma went down in flames? It would change
the entire nature of the character, and distort the entire idea Tominio
was trying to bring across. Yet, in the name of "watering down" or
"Americanization" we seem to have no problem in editing out material.
I wonder how Hollywood would feel if they started finding out that other
countries were editing or changing their movies, because they wanted
to "Japanize" or "Francify" the story. They would be understandably upset.
Why should animation be any different?
Just my HO,
Josh Mercer
knowledge, real names of the actors involved. Kerrigan Mahan, Steve Kramer, et
cetera. I guess RC was "legitimate" enough that they wanted their real names
known...