Design Question
Neo2K
Could someone tell me what 'Katoki-esque' implies in a mecha design? As
well as 'Ookawara-esque'. My good modelling buddy next-door keeps flinging all
these terms at me!
**************************
Neo J. Menasor
The World's Designated Loser
The Freshman from Hell
Supreme Commander of the Flying Grape Tree
ALL HAIL GIGAHAND!
The Covenent of Primus, it's a COOKBOOK!
***********************************
Ledon Cook
>
> Could someone tell me what 'Katoki-esque' implies in a mecha design? As
> well as 'Ookawara-esque'.
Hajime Katoki and Kunio Okawara...
Could describe it out in words but it is a lot easier to see the difference
when their work is put together.
On Mecha Domain (Which is a site definately worth bookmarking) there's a
section on Katoki's re-designs of the mechs from the Gundam Wing series.
Mecha Domain: Hajime Katoki's "Gundam Wing Re-Designs"
http://mechadomain.gundam.com/gundam/katoki-wing/
If you consult the page comparing Okawara's original HeavyArms design and
Katoki's re-design of it:
http://mechadomain.gundam.com/gundam/katoki-wing/xxxg-01h.htm
The differences should really stand out.
Okawara's design aesthetic seems to be more bulky, the waists on his designs
are thick, and there's usually a loose mix of curving forms and blocky forms,
somehow making the design seem un-unified.
In comparison, Katoki's aesthetic is much more unified, and IMHO makes his
designs appear to have more of a "finished" quality that Okawara's work rarely
captures. Katoki's narrower waists, more angular, faceted quality of form. But
it's not that his designs are simply more angular or missing curves (or bulbous
forms), it seems more like he uses them with more discretion or control. His
designs usually appear to be, IMHO, much for balanced, or more thought out.
And in the case of the HeavyArms and Okawara... I cannot ever look at Okawara's
HeavyArms without seeing those d@mned front skirts, and they always remind me of
the Iron Gear mech, from Xabungle.
And to expand the comparison of Katoki's work to Okawara's, you can go to the
section of Mecha Domain for Endless Waltz, most of the mechs of EW Katoki designed,
and they can be viewed as alternate re-designs of Okawara's original Gundam Wing tv
series designs. Also most of the mechs from Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory are Katoki's.
And for a third designer's take on mobile suit form, there's Yutaka Izubuchi. He's
responible for the designs of most of the new mobile suits that appear in Gundam 0080:
War in the Pocket, and in Mobile Suit Gundam: Char's Counterattack. The Geara Doga;
Hygog; Zaku-FZ; Rick-Dom II; Sazabi and Kampfer are master-strokes of his aesthetic.
And mentioning the Kampfer always brings to mind, the AGX-04 Gerbera Tetra from 0083,
which is the genius of designer: Mika Akitaka. Would anybody be kind enough to list
other mobile suits that are Akitaka's design work?
Now you can you imagine somebody saying 'Izubuchi-esque' or 'Akitaka-esque'. I love
saying "Izoh-boochi"!
Of course the Type 100 and Rick-Dias of Zeta Gundam are Mamuro Nagano's designs so there
is 'Nagano-esque' as well... (scooby-doo giggle inserted here)
DAS84J
designs seem to be more simplistic (in the case of EW) and have a bunch of
triangle/square indentations everywhere. Also his designs are very stylish and
lean. Ookawara mecha seem to be more standard and not as flashy as a katoki
design. He is like the grandaddy mecha designer of Gundam. Look at the original
GW mecha and compare them to the EW designs to see the difference in the two's
designs.
Zin
http://www.dakotacom.net/~mecha/mecha-designers.htm
--------------------------------------
富貴浮雲兩無定﹐
殘山剩水總無情。
秋風吹醒英雄夢﹐
成敗起落不關心。
--------------------------------------
Ledon Cook
Oh,
I forgot about Mark Simmons! Be sure to take a look at his redesign of the
HeavyArms as well:
http://www.gundamproject.com/mecha/gundamwing_gundam03k.html
Some of Simmons' are really nice. Here's a few of my favorties:
Gyan (especially in Ranba Ral's colors, and I'm not even a Gyan fan)
http://www.gundamproject.com/mecha/girensgreed_gyan.html#MS15
Gogg (his version definitely does NOT look like a Sumo wrestler!)
http://www.gundamproject.com/mecha/gundam_gogg.html#MSM03
Ez8 (sweet reworking of Okawara's design)
http://www.gundamproject.com/mecha/08thmsteam_gundam79.html#RX079G2
And be sure to check out his GM interpretations:
http://www.gundamproject.com/mecha/08thmsteam_gm.html
http://www.gundamproject.com/mecha/gundam_gm.html#RGM079
(^^^be sure to check out the White Dingo colors on this one)
Hmmm... Simmons-esque! I can dig it!
Brandon Perlow
>
>
> > And for a third designer's take on mobile suit form, there's Yutaka
> >Izubuchi. He's
>
> Y'know, the more I think about his work on Gundam, the less of a
> fan I am. <shrug> The Zaku-FZ is the one that bothers me the most,
> though.
Ill disagree with you on that.. I love his german soldier helmet on the FZ. The FZ
is the best redesign of the Zaku Ive seen.. His Gelgoog J is the only good version
of the Gelgoog. The Nu Gundam, the Geara Doga , the Sazabi... Take a look at Madox
01, Gasaraki TAs... Then take a look at Aura Fhantasm, Rune Masquer and Galient.. He
can do really realistic looking mechs as well or better than anyone, and can do
fantasy mechs amazingly well.. Kataki is more hit or miss than Izubuchi.... Izubuchi
has restraint unlike Katoki..
CWMODELS
Katoki Hajime: Gundam Sentinel & Beyond
Back in the fall of 1987, the magazine Model Graphix started running a monthly
Gundam series in their pages. Titled Gundam Sentinels, it was a storyline that
filled the gap between Double Zeta and Char's Counter Attack. Bandai at the
time was probably looking for its next big hit after CCA, so as a cross
promotion, they produced a line of plastic model kits for it. Superior Gundam
was the "main" Mobile Suit (MS) in the series and had a very unusual look. It
was very much like a cross between Zeta & Double Zeta with extremely
exaggerated proportions. The series also featured photographs of Mobile Suit
model kits in action. Unlike many other model shots that came before, It
portrayed the sequences like satellite photos from space (blurry pictures with
image lines across them). Fans at the time responded with different opinions,
some liked it & some absolutely hated it. But regardless of that, the artwork
and technical illustration done for it was extremely remarkable. It had details
and descriptions beyond any Gundam series that came before. It reflected a very
realistic perspective on the structure and usage of a MS in the world around
it. Probably the most amazing artwork was the step-by-step transformation chart
of Superior Gundam & Zeta Plus. It not only demonstrated the exterior
configurations as the machines transformed, it also showed the interior frames
as well. This was also the first time that Gundam was treated more like a space
shuttle instead of a big robot. After the series ended, Model Graphix released
it as a complete collection book with new materials added. It was a real
massive book with a huge price tag at the time (I paid about $40.00 back in
1989 and I almost couldn't afford it because I was still in Junior High
School). The book was put together beautifully, it was completely in color with
large fold outs of illustrations & model kits. Out of the group of people that
worked on the book, the name Katoki Hajime stood out the most simply because he
took the credits of CO-creator, coordination, sci-fi establishment, special
effects advisor, writer, mechanic designer, character designer and illustrator.
This was a big surprise since Katoki Hajime was practically an unknown at the
time, and (to my knowledge) never worked on any anime series before. His age
was 28 at the release of the Gundam Sentinel book, and suddenly he gained a
name for himself within the anime & modeling circle.
After Gundam Sentinel series, Katoki went onto providing redesigns of classic
MS such as GM & Zaku in the Model Graphix two-part "Sentinel 0079". Some of
these designs were used in Gundam anime series later on (Gundam 0083 & 08th MS
Team), and became very popular model kits.
Katoki Hajime's next involvement with Gundam happened when Bandai was producing
the High Grade model line. The release of the HG kits was to celebrate the 10th
anniversary of Gundam, and to show case Bandai's progress in model
manufacturing technology. The model kits were absolutely stunning at the time
with its color injection molding & upgrades in the joint pose-abilities. For
the instruction booklets, Katoki was hired to do all the black & white
illustrations in the story & explanation sections. The best piece of artwork he
produced for every one of the booklets were the spread page illustration of the
classic Gundams in his styling. This was the first time the fans saw what is
referred to now as Ver.Ka (Version Katoki). His detailed artwork showed opening
hatches, interior mechanics, and fine detailing. These illustrations were the
real start of his fame, it was the first time many Gundam fans began to notice
his name. Afterwards, he also produced a few illustrations for instruction
booklets on some of the Gundam F-90 model series.
His next major project came when he joined the mecha design staffs of Gundam
0083 OVA (Original Video Animation) series. Because he was still a fresh face
in the animation circle, he was not billed as the head mecha designer (that
title went to Kawamori Shoji of Macross fame, who designed Gundam GP01 & Gundam
GP02 in it). Still, Katoki handled a majority of the designs seen in the
series. It ranged from Zaku II, Dom Troopen, GM, Powered GM, GM custom, GM
Cannon 2, GM Quell, Xamel, GP03, all the cockpits of the MS, and even some
backgrounds as well. This project was his biggest involvement besides Gundam
Sentinel. Unfortunately, Bandai was giving more push on Gundam F-91 during that
time period, and practically ignored 0083. Very few model kits were produced
for this line and most of them were extremely poor in quality. But still, a
majority of the MS designs featured in 0083 became a fan favorite with a lot of
the Gundam fans, and some even hailing it as the best ever (I disagree with
some though).
Eventually, Katoki Hajime's skills becomes a bit more wide spread throughout
the anime circle. For the movie Patlabor 2, he was given the job of designing
all the ground military vehicles seen in it. He worked on the tanks, jeeps,
ATV, and personnel transports. Mostly were based on real vehicles with minor
variations & changes. But if you ever seen the actual line art he produced,
you'll know they were quite detailed.
He continued his involvement with Gundam after 0083 with Victory Gundam, G
Gundam, Gundam W, and 08th MS Team. Among those series, he designed most of the
cockpits & a lot of the background mechanics. Although he did not design as
many Mobile Suits throughout most of them, he still managed to produce a few
memorable ones. Victory Gundam, Victory 2 Gundam, Master Gundam, Devil Gundam,
Nobel Gundam (the sailormoon one LOL), Tallgeese, Gouf custom, are just a few
that came to mind instantly.
Now that Katoki Hajime has became a fan favorite Gundam designer, many model
companies beside Bandai has started to produce Gundam kits with his styling
involved. The "octagonal" block shape & space shuttle style booster treatment
he gave when redesigning classic Mobile suits became his trademark look. The
label Ver.Ka becomes a best seller with many resin kit producer, and dozens of
Gundam kits that would appear in model kit conventions such as Wonder festival
& JAF-CON would sport his design visual as well. During their 20th anniversary,
the model company VOLKS even produced a 1/35 scale (over 3 foot tall) resin
model kit of RX-78 Gundam Ver.Ka based exactly on the illustration katoki did
inside the Bandai instruction booklet (The price of the kit was set at 98000
yen which is about $1,000).
Around the time period of the G Gundam series, Katoki Hajime's popularity
reached a new height when SEGA hired him to design all the mechas/characters in
their new 3D mechanoid fighting game. The result was the ultra popular SEGA
arcade video game, Cyber Trooper Vitural-ON. This was the first time robot
fighting game sported a great visual, fun game play, and easy controls. The
game was a mega hit for SEGA in Japan, and shot the name katoki Hajime into the
video game world. Soon afterwards, SEGA hired him again for the development of
the second Vitural-On game. Debuted last year in Japan with new designs,
characters, and game play, it continues to please both die hard game & mecha
fans. (Katoki also designed the mechas R1, R2, and R3 for one of BanPresto
Super Robot series on PlayStation between Vitural-On 1 & 2)
It was also around the time of the first Vitural-ON game that Katoki started
his monthly run of Gundam Fix on Newtype magazine. This was a series of full
color realistic looking Gundam artwork in photographic style. He once again
showed his superb drafting skills and love for realism by combining paintings
of Gundams and photo backgrounds in computer. His artwork now gave the fans a
new view on Gundam. He portrayed what our world would be like if those giant
mechas existed. He showed us Gundams being built in factories, standing in
nature, walking on the ground, flying in the air, and cruising through space.
The result were many stunning and surreal images. (The artwork was finally
compiled in may 1999 into a complete collection hard cover book called Newtype
Illustrated Collection: GUNDAM FIX)
In the OVA series Gundam W: Endless Waltz, Katoki Hajime was finally billed as
head mecha designer. His major task involved redesigning the five Gundams seen
in the Gundam Wing TV series. Instead of going for the realistic visuals on the
designs, he went with more of a fantasy element. What resulted was some the
most unconventional Gundam designs ever. Nataku had unlimited extending dragon
arms, Deathscythe spawned a bat wing that closed like a cloak, Heavy Arms had
unbelievable amount of fire power, Sandrock with its huge sickles, and Wing
Gundam Zero simply grew wings. The designs may not have had any realism
involved, but the styling was extremely beautiful. And the fact is, fans loved
it. The Wing Gundam Zero Custom model kit was completely sold out for months.
(During that summer I could not find the kit in Japan, Taiwan, & America, and I
was actually there in all 3 places. I heard Hong Kong was sold out as well. The
shop owner of Image Anime in NY told me that he sold over 150 Wing Zero Custom,
and it being the best selling Bandai kit ever)
Now with his name as a money maker, Bandai finally decides to hire Katoki as
the main designer for all of their Gundam model kit production guides.
Beginning with Master Grade Zeta Gundam model, he produced the
guides/blueprints for the complete visual & structures on how the model kit
should look & function. Katoki was able to solve many of the problems with
proportions & joints that would other wise make the kit seem impossible to
produce. He is not only making a lot the current Bandai kits look good, his
name is also helping to sell them as well.
Other notable works by Katoki Hajime include:
*Gundam movie 1 LD cover art. Featuring RX-78 sitting up from the transport
vehicle (water color art)
*Gundam movies LD box set cover art. Featuring damaged Core Fighter drifting
through space (Gundam Fix style art)
*Double Zeta Gundam LD box set cover art. Featuring ZZ Gundam (Gundam Fix style
art)
*Double Zeta Gundam LD box set 2 cover art. Featuring Full Armor ZZ Gundam
(Gundam Fix style art)
*Gundam 0083 CD single cover for Men of Destiny. Featuring Kou Uraki looking up
at GP03 (water color art)
*PlayStation Zeta Gundam video game cover. Featuring Z Gundam flying through
the air (Gundam Fix style art)
*Patlabor 2 promotional movie poster. Featuring JSDF tank parked in front of
the famous Shinjuku government building (water color art)
*Patlabor 2 visual book: Methods. Featuring AV-98 unit 3 with Golden fish
swimming in front of it (water color art)
**Katoki has also produced countless numbers of covers, posters, and pinups for
the Newtype Magazine throughout the years.
**He is also credited on more Gundam series than any other Mecha designers. The
only exception is Kunio Okawara, who designed the original RX-78.
**Katoki seems to have a long time working relation with Mika Akitaka (famous
for mecha designs in 0083, Victory Gundam, MS Gundam girls, Galaxy Frauline
Yuna, Nadesico). Akitaka was has contributed a few Gundam Sentinel girls in the
Gundam Sentinel book, and was credited as sub mechanic designer. He also used
RX-78 Ver. Ka on the cover of his MS girl collection book. And for the Galaxy
Frauline OVA series, Katoki designed most of the space ships that appeared in
it.
Since I'm writing most of the above information from memory, that's pretty much
all I could think of at the moment. If there are any changes or imput that need
to be added, please feel free to contribute.
------------------------------------------------------
In my opinion, what make Katoki Hajiome a great mecha designer is his skills
for manipulating shapes. He has always been able to work the dimensions of
simple shapes to fit with one another nicely to create something unusual. I am
consistently surprised by the that perticular aspect of his designs. If you
noticed, his style has changed quite a bit from the time he designed Superior
Gundam to Wing Gundam. His mechas are now more blocky & hard edged looking than
some of his earlier work. His designs also took a turn from the realistic to
more of a fantasy element as well. (I always thought that was a result of him
working on the G Gundam and Vitural-On series)
What I truly enjoy the most is actually Katoki's illustration & painted
artworks. The best part of his artworks are always the lighting & the choice of
colors. I always thought his real talent as a painter is the way light &
shadows fall on his subjects. He is also able to give the right contrast to
make his Gundam paintings look realistic. The color schemes are generally a lot
more vibrant & colorful than many other painters that worked on Gundam as well.
Another good contribution is his use of perspectives. The perspective shots in
his paintings (especially Gundam Fix) always come out beautifully.
So where will katoki Hajime's talents take us in the future? That's pretty hard
to say. Beside his involvement with Bandai currently, he has been away from any
Gundam series for a while now. I'm not sure whether he will return or move onto
other projects. It is certain for me that we will probably see more of his
involvement with Vitural-On 3 and other video game projects in the near future.
Truth is, Katoki has been working with the Gundam production for over a decade
now. Great during the time he first came aboard, but sometimes I do think that
he has already done everything he can for the Gundam franchise. He is no longer
the "fresh blood" injected into this series, and maybe someone new needs to
come aboard in order to revive the Gundam name. I also do wish Katoki would
work on other anime series instead Gundam for a while. So this way he can
generate something different.
Even though I feel that Katoki Hajime has already passed his height of
popularity currently, I am still pleased to see his work all the time. I hope
he will continue to surprises & amaze me with his talents & skills in the years
to come
CWMODELS
<< From: neome...@aol.com (Neo2K) >>
<< Could someone tell me what 'Katoki-esque' implies in a mecha design? As
SaitouWolf
did some design in Wing and X...how about any UC storys that he's credit for?
What about women mecha designer? I'm sure there are couple of them running
around somewhere...
Andrew Ryan Chang
> Okawara's design aesthetic seems to be more bulky, the waists on his designs
>are thick, and there's usually a loose mix of curving forms and blocky forms,
>somehow making the design seem un-unified.
>
> In comparison, Katoki's aesthetic is much more unified, and IMHO makes his
>designs appear to have more of a "finished" quality that Okawara's work rarely
>captures. Katoki's narrower waists, more angular, faceted quality of form. But
>it's not that his designs are simply more angular or missing curves (or bulbous
>forms), it seems more like he uses them with more discretion or control. His
>designs usually appear to be, IMHO, much for balanced, or more thought out.
With his redesign for the PG Gundam (mostly pushed down into the
FG and MG 1.5), he went with a rather bulkier Gundam than the original
slimline design. It's really interesting to compare the changes made,
actually. Same size head (more or less) with a smaller face and relatively
larger helmet in the new kit. The chest is redesigned to move the vents up
and in. The look is more unified.
Then again, Katoki's style puts a little more emphasis on
"realistic" details; I know some people hated the Quebeley ver ka. (he was
the one behind this, right?) with its heavy set o' panel lines.
> And for a third designer's take on mobile suit form, there's Yutaka
>Izubuchi. He's
Y'know, the more I think about his work on Gundam, the less of a
fan I am. <shrug> The Zaku-FZ is the one that bothers me the most,
though.
> Of course the Type 100 and Rick-Dias of Zeta Gundam are Mamuro Nagano's
>designs so there
>is 'Nagano-esque' as well... (scooby-doo giggle inserted here)
Now, I've always liked Nagano. Didn't he do the Quebeley as well?
But his FSS work is often truly fantastic... Some killer style, if
impractical and inherently limited ranges of motion.
--
The degradation which most workers experience on the job is the sum of
assorted indignities which can be denominated as "discipline." Discipline
is what the factory and the office and the store share with the prison and
the school and the mental hospital. -- "THE ABOLITION OF WORK" by Bob Black
Andrew Ryan Chang
>Ill disagree with you on that.. I love his german soldier helmet on the
>FZ. The FZ
>is the best redesign of the Zaku Ive seen.. His Gelgoog J is the only
>good version
>of the Gelgoog. The Nu Gundam, the Geara Doga , the Sazabi... Take a
>look at Madox
>01, Gasaraki TAs... Then take a look at Aura Fhantasm, Rune Masquer and
>Galient.. He
>can do really realistic looking mechs as well or better than anyone, and can do
>fantasy mechs amazingly well..
It's a matter of taste, then. The FZ is outrageously different;
the MG/PG Zaku redesigns are much closer. I grant you they were made at
different times and with different aims.
"Aura Fhantasm" == Aura Battler? Those -are- cool, and I do like
Gasaraki, but in general, I'm not familiar with much of his work or a whole
lot of anime/manga to start with. I did qualify my dislike as his work WRT
Gundam, and I stand by that... disliked the FZ, Gelgoog J, Nu (except for
fin funnels)... kinda like the Sazabi and Kampfer. Who did the Nightingale
and Hi-Nu? If it was Izibuchi, then I guess I'd have to revise my opinion
again.
--
So if you can work hard to teach each unforgiving minute, the Moral
ABC that unites all mankind free, come hell, hate, ban, you'll enjoy
God's spaceship Earth and do great work within it. And which is more
my son, you'll be a man! A MAN! -Dr Bronner
John Hwang
> Ledon Cook <ink...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > Okawara's design aesthetic seems to be more bulky, the waists on
> > his designs are thick, and there's usually a loose mix of curving
> > forms and blocky forms, somehow making the design seem un-unified.
> >
> > In comparison, Katoki's aesthetic is much more unified, and IMHO
> > makes his designs appear to have more of a "finished" quality that
> > Okawara's work rarely captures. Katoki's narrower waists, more
> > angular, faceted quality of form. But it's not that his designs
> > are simply more angular or missing curves (or bulbous forms), it
> > seems more like he uses them with more discretion or control. His
> > designs usually appear to be, IMHO, much for balanced, or more
> > thought out.
A lot of this can be compared to high fashion clothing -- runway looks
vs street looks.
> With his redesign for the PG Gundam (mostly pushed down into the FG
> and MG 1.5), he went with a rather bulkier Gundam than the original
> slimline design. It's really interesting to compare the changes
> made, actually. Same size head (more or less) with a smaller face
> and relatively larger helmet in the new kit. The chest is redesigned
> to move the vents up and in. The look is more unified.
When we say "unified", it's more within the context of the rest of the
MG line. The more mecha done by a particular designer, the more
unified the line will be.
Given enough of examples, even something as purely awful as Syd Mead's
Turn-A begins to look acceptable, simply because Turn-A as a whole
begins to achieve a unified look. Of course, Turn-A *is* an
abomination which holds up poorly WRT extablished Gundam themes and
designs. Like Wing/EW, great show, but it's not Gundam. OTOH, I'm
eagerly anticipating For The Bullet for a truly fresh look at the
franchise.
> Then again, Katoki's style puts a little more emphasis on
> "realistic" details; I know some people hated the Quebeley ver ka.
> (he was the one behind this, right?) with its heavy set o' panel
> lines.
>
> > And for a third designer's take on mobile suit form, there's
> > Yutaka Izubuchi. He's
>
> Y'know, the more I think about his work on Gundam, the less of a
> fan I am. <shrug> The Zaku-FZ is the one that bothers me the most,
> though.
I'll take his Gundam work over Syd Mead's any day of the week, no
questions asked...
> > Of course the Type 100 and Rick-Dias of Zeta Gundam are Mamuro
> > Nagano's designs so there is 'Nagano-esque' as well...
> > (scooby-doo giggle inserted here)
>
> Now, I've always liked Nagano. Didn't he do the Quebeley as well?
Yup. Also the rather tame Galbaldy Beta.
The give-away for Hyaku-Shiki (Type 100) is of course, the Mega Bazooka
Launcher. Nothing says Nagano like a huge gun on a golden mech!
And interestingly, Nagano's fingers are in the Gundam Mk.II as well...
> But his FSS work is often truly fantastic... Some killer style, if
> impractical and inherently limited ranges of motion.
Limited ranges of motion? IMHO, many FSS MH will possess greater
flexibility than an equivalent Gundam, due to Nagano's trademark "soft
waist" and wide shoulders. The thing which is most impressive is the
sheer range of mecha profiles, from tall and spindly, to short and
bulky, which hold together thematically and functionally.
To me the it's exciting to consider the sheer range of projects
Nagano's done design work on: the armoured vehicles of Panzer Front,
the characters and the mecha from FSS, Brain Powerd, Gundam, and
various RPGs...
--
--- John Hwang "J_H...@my-deja.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
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Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
John Hwang
> >Ill disagree with you on that.. I love his german soldier helmet
> >on the FZ. The FZ is the best redesign of the Zaku Ive seen.. His
> >Gelgoog J is the only good version of the Gelgoog. The Nu Gundam,
> >the Geara Doga, the Sazabi...
Yup. I'd have to agree here as well. Did he do the Geara-Doga
Custom???
> >Take a look at Madox 01, Gasaraki TAs...
The Madox and Gasaraki mecha clearly trump the VOTOMs ATs in terms of
realism and overall aesthetic; heck, I like them better than Labors...
> >Then take a look at Aura Fhantasm, Rune Masquer and Galient..
I like Rune Masquer -- beautifully done.
Aura Fhantasm? What is this? If it's Aura Battler Dunbine, I'm not so
excited here, either.
And Panzer World Galient? I've never been impressed with these.
> >He can do really realistic looking mechs as well or better than
> >anyone,
Agree.
> >and can do fantasy mechs amazingly well..
Sometimes. Rune Masquer is excellent. Galient is merely adequate.
Certainly, he's no Nagano.
> It's a matter of taste, then. The FZ is outrageously different;
> the MG/PG Zaku redesigns are much closer. I grant you they were
> made at different times and with different aims.
Yup.
> "Aura Fhantasm" == Aura Battler? Those -are- cool, and I do like
> Gasaraki, but in general, I'm not familiar with much of his work or
> a whole lot of anime/manga to start with. I did qualify my dislike
> as his work WRT Gundam, and I stand by that... disliked the FZ,
> Gelgoog J, Nu (except for fin funnels)... kinda like the Sazabi and
> Kampfer.
Heresy! Sazabi and Kampfer are *awesome* designs.
If someone would just execute them properly... <sigh>
> Who did the Nightingale and Hi-Nu? If it was Izibuchi,
> then I guess I'd have to revise my opinion again.
--
Andrew Ryan Chang
>When we say "unified", it's more within the context of the rest of the
>MG line. The more mecha done by a particular designer, the more
>unified the line will be.
>
>Given enough of examples, even something as purely awful as Syd Mead's
>Turn-A begins to look acceptable, simply because Turn-A as a whole
>begins to achieve a unified look. Of course, Turn-A *is* an
The other meaning of "unified" is that the design of the mecha as
a whole looks like a coherent design. Mead uses a couple of elements
throughout the Turn-A and Turn-X mechs -- symmetrical curves in one,
asymmetry in the other. Both are unified in that there's no confusion
about the style. (and with the curves in both, he's also managed to make
two *very* different MSes that look like they came from the same timeline.)
Okawara's 08MST Gundams are chunky but yet have the Zeta-esque feet that
are timeline anachronisms and kinda unsuited to the clunky look of the
rest of the mech.
Besides which, I've really grown to like the Turn-A; it's a lot
sleeker than the overdone ZZ or Ex-S IMO. I dunno about some of those
Moon Race MSes, though (Rib, Wadd, Flat); they're a little too mechanical
and unhumanoid to have much charm.
>arc...@sfu.ca (Andrew Ryan Chang) wrote:
>> But his FSS work is often truly fantastic... Some killer style, if
>> impractical and inherently limited ranges of motion.
>
>Limited ranges of motion? IMHO, many FSS MH will possess greater
>flexibility than an equivalent Gundam, due to Nagano's trademark "soft
>waist" and wide shoulders. The thing which is most impressive is the
Well, I haven't built any FSS kits, but the armor near the
shoulders and knees appears like it'd inhibit mobility.
--
Prozac changed everything, and that's just the beginning.
-- Eli Lilly & Co. annual report.
Anthony Nichols
ink...@bellsouth.net wrote:
>
> Some of Simmons' are really nice. Here's a few of my favorties:
>
> Gyan (especially in Ranba Ral's colors, and I'm not even a Gyan fan)
> http://www.gundamproject.com/mecha/girensgreed_gyan.html#MS15
>
I have to agree with this. I used to really dislike the Gyan and I
still really do not particularly care for the HGUC kit, but I love Mark
Simmons' rendition and also the High Mobility version from Girens
Greed. I am not intent on creating a kit of both of those versions, at
least something that resembles them.
--
Consider the unparalleled advantage of a natural disaster that's
impossible to manage.
Prabal Nandy
>> Some of Simmons' are really nice. Here's a few of my favorties:
>> Gyan (especially in Ranba Ral's colors, and I'm not even a Gyan fan)
>still really do not particularly care for the HGUC kit, but I love Mark
>Simmons' rendition and also the High Mobility version from Girens
Absolutely! M.Simmon's rendition of mecha art ROCKS! I VASTLY prefer it
to Okawara's designs, and even ahead of Katoki's HGUC re-designs (which
frankly I consider to be way too conservative).... his designs have a
great utilitarian uniformity of design, but never go overboard on the
detail, or become too bland.
The HGUC series would ROCK if Simmons was in charge!
--
\~~~~~\__ ~~\___/~~ __/~~~~~/
~<==\__\_<O\:/O>_/__/==>~
<_/ //=\ ^ /=\\ \_>
na...@u.arizona.edu \| (|) |/ www.dragonfire.net/~jhfong
Andrew Ryan Chang
>Mamoru Nagano is a fine art major AFAIK...but he is a nightmare of moldmakers
>because he doesn't seem to employ think with 3-dimensional forms, which is a
>critical element of product and industrial major. I attended an art school that
>has prominent automobile and industrial design major. ^^ I can tell a 'trained'
>design from 'untrained' design. He should be thrown into art bootcamp and start
>from scratch...
I rather like the photos of the FSS kits on the web. The
moldmaker's problems aren't my problems. =) What would a "trained" FSS
design look like? Less fun?
Nagano's a kook in a lot more ways than just mecha design, if his
intros to the FSS books are any indication.
--
Homer: That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm
going to clown college! [leaves]
Bart: I don't think any of us expected him to say that.
-- "Homer the Clown"
John Hwang
> Then take a look at Aura Fhantasm, Rune Masquer and Galient.. He
> can do really realistic looking mechs as well or better than
OK, I've had a chance to look over the Aura Phantasm mechs. They're
*much* better than the Aura Battler mechs which preceded them. Still,
not as good as FSS/Rune Masquer. I don't hate them, but I certainly
don't like them enough to consider buying reference art or model kits
either.
--
--- John Hwang "J_H...@my-deja.com"
\-|-/
| A.K.D. F.E.M.C.
| Horned Blood Cross Terror LED Speed Jagd Destiny
John Hwang
> >Mamoru Nagano is a fine art major AFAIK...
He was originally a fashion designer. But he does a huge amount of
mecha and character design.
> >but he is a nightmare of moldmakers because he doesn't seem to
> >employ think with 3-dimensional forms,
Bull. All of Nagano's work is fully realized in 3-D. It's just that
his work is *far* more complicated and difficult to mold simply or
cheaply because the fine detail level is very high, and he uses a lot
of organic forms instead of angular forms. But it is doable, and the
results are both elegant and beautiful, characteristics which are
rarely used to describe any of the "industrial" designs you seem to
favor.
As for Nagano not understanding 3-D, I defy you to find an item of his
which is *not* doable in 3-D. I don't think you can find one. The
vast majority of his mecha designs, from Heavy Metal L-Gaim, to FSS, to
Brain Powerd have *already* been done as kits. The only mecha which
haven't are the ones which are still under development, or are too
expensive. And these are the relatively difficult mecha we're talking
about.
Similarly, the bulk of his "Decadent Style" characters have been done
as well, in addition to the recent "Plastic Style" character toys.
He's very much akin to any of the highest-level architects and
visionaries, taking his designs to a higher level than most. And
requiring a higher-level industrial designer.
> >which is a critical element of product and industrial major.
All well and duly possessed by Nagano.
> >I attended an art school that has prominent automobile and
> >industrial design major.
OK. I'm a Mech E with a heavy design background.
> >^^ I can tell a 'trained' design from 'untrained' design.
Really? Your criticism above doesn't reflect this at all. Look at his
Panzer Front designs, along with the designs of the non-MH mecha in
FSS. The FSS hover tanks and starcraft are all beautifully designed,
same for the MH transports and so forth.
I think you can tell a homogenized design from a individualized
design. Nagano's work as always emphasized design of individual units,
not mass-production units. And for those of us who prize customization
and uniqueness, in an otherwise bland and homogenized world, his talent
and work are something special to behold.
> >He should be thrown into art bootcamp and start from scratch...
Considering that Nagano is one of the very top mecha and chracter
designers in all of Japan, for both anime and games, you ought to
reconsider you position here. Particularly considering the breadth of
his work, from "hard" Sci-Fi (e.g. Panzer Front) to "high" Fantasy
(console RPGs) to FSS with it's monsters, characters, etc.
Even more impressive is the ability to have his unique style appear in
all of his work. Amano and Nirasawa the only other designers I can
think of with a similar ability to project style, yet both have smaller
range, IMHO.
Personally, I'd consider your opinion unqualified. Go work for Bic or
Gilette -- Rolls Royce, BMW M, and Ferrari have no need for your type.
> I rather like the photos of the FSS kits on the web. The
> moldmaker's problems aren't my problems. =)
Exactly.
Tho as we've seen *all* of the FSS (and other) designs *are* buildable
in 3-D. It may not be doable cheaply, but it's certainly doable.
> What would a "trained" FSS design look like?
If you're restricting to MH: Horned Mirage, LED Mirage, MH Berlin, MH
Siren, Junchoon, or any of the other "mass production" (closer to
limited production) MH. Otherwise, we have all of the AKD's ME-xxx
hover tanks and power suits.
> Less fun?
From above, I wouldn't think so. LED Mirage are cool. When I get the
money, I'll have a small army of AKD MHs.
> Nagano's a kook in a lot more ways than just mecha design, if his
> intros to the FSS books are any indication.
True. But that's entirely the point. Without that "spark", FSS just
wouldn't be the same.