3 Gundam Wing Qs
lboansvgan
storyline? I realize it is tailored towards a teenage boy's fantasy
life of being the ones best suited to piloting giant fighting robots.
Also, it gets boring when the never-in-real-danger Gundams are
destroying countless enemies at will and blowing up huge asteroids and
space cities with one shot. However, I occasionally find it a
semi-decent way to past time, especially when I can fast forward past
the boring fight scenes.
What I can't stand are the personalities of most of the Gundam pilots
and their friends. Hiro is the worst one. He keeps blowing up his
Gundams for no good reason; his Gundams are invicible and Hiro is
nearly invicible but he keeps brooding about some
no-need-for-gundams-anymore crap and then blowing up his well made
robots time and time again. But soon he realizes he needs a Gundam
again. What a stupid fool! Catra is weak minded in that he copies
Hiro in blowing up his Gundam and then goes on a childish destructive
spree when his dad acts stupid and kills himself despite having an
option to escape and live. Jet Li could have been cool but he starts
acting stupid, becomes a coward, becomes irrational towards Vex's
offer, and then fights his Gundam friends out of stupidity. Hick Guy
who has the most annoying dubbed voice seems quite evil in that he
revels in killing. Relina Peacecraft who acts likes a brainless fool
constantly promoting pure peace to a aggressive war manufacturer who
killed her father, destroyed their kingdom in their past and is taking
more steps towards global war (with no showing of considering peace).
These idiots need to graduate from high school, go to college, before
they should be allowed to ramble about their immature, inflexible,
multi-flawed philosophies (e.g.,
peace-at-all-costs-even-if-it-means-being-conquered-by-evil-or-being-killed-by-evil
and
I-have-been-a-soldier-therefore-I-must-fight-forever-or-join-the-circus,
a wannabee-samurai mentality).
I do find some characters interesting. Vexs Marquis? is a fine
focused fighter who's plan to infiltrate Oz as a youth and destroy it
now finds himself permanently altered by the soldier's mentaility.
Ms. Loins?/Noin? is an kind, intelligent, and loyal officer to Vexs
Marquis; she is probably the most likable of the female characters.
Troll-ah is very mysterious and cool. Troll-ah, other than his
ridiculously long front bangs, seems to act like Vex but has gotten
closer to achieving his goal of destroying Oz. Lady Un has split
personalities which are nearly opposite of each other.
Q2: Are the character named the same in Japanese? For example, are
the Peacecrafts really called Peacecrafts in Japanese because it
sounds like a dubber who liked the Warcraft computer games decided to
use "Peacecraft" as a way to signify the extreme pacifism of the
Peacecrafts (and as a tribute to his favorite computer game). Also,
what is Catra? It rhymes with Kuma Sultra but in keeping with the
descriptive use of names, he could be better named as Catboy or
Cathead in that he looks like a cat with round head and big eyes. :p
Q3: Are the other Gundam series better in that they have more grown up
protagonists with better, more realistic motivations? Are all the
Gundam series connected with each other like a timeline or are they
alternate universes?
Khaos512
accurate, and yes it is "Peacecraft" in the Japanese version too. Gundam Wing
is a very below-average Gundam series, I suggest getting into the Universal
Century timeline and picking up fansubs of Zeta Gundam (one of the best anime
series' of all time), the awesome 0080-0083 OVA's or wait for the MS Gundam
0079(the original series) and 8th MS Team DVDs.
KireiSarah
The character names are the following:
Heero Yuy
Duo Maxwell
Trowa Barton
Quatre Raberba Winner
Wufei Chang (or Chang Wufei if you do it the Asian way...)
Zechs Merquise/Marquise? (I've seen it spelled both ways?)
Lucrezia Noin
Treize Kushrenada
Lady Une
Relena Peacecraft
Those are the names both in the original and in the dub. With the exception of
Une and Relena, they all fall into a quirky little naming system...
Heero: 1 ("Hi" (pronounced "hee") in Japanese is a way of saying "one", and
"ro" makes it a pun on "hero")
Duo: 2
Trowa: 3 ("Trois")
Quatre: 4 (I don't know how to spell it in French. Catre? Or is it spelled like
this?)
Wufei: 5 ("wu" is 5 in Chinese)
Zechs: 6 (I think this is some kind of play on the German pronounciation? x.o;)
Noin: 9 (French again?)
Treize: 13 (French or Italian, I can't recall which)
The numbers coincide with their mobile suit numbers (Heero pilots Gundam 01,
etc...)
Kirei
AFU no Scandalous Video
JulesKD72
>storyline?
AHHHH! NO! IMO the dubbing is terrible, just awful. So much of the meaning and
nuances and subtlety is lost. It doesn't seem like it at first, but GW is a
very subtle show and therein is its beauty.
<<> Hiro is the worst one. He keeps blowing up his
>Gundams for no good reason; his Gundams are invicible and Hiro is
>nearly invicible but he keeps brooding about some
>no-need-for-gundams-anymore crap and then blowing up his well made
>robots time and time again.
This obsession of Heero's does eventually get explained, though, in the dub,
you wouldn't know it. What you ought to do if you find you like the series, is
to go to a web page where you can look at the scripts as translated by
fansubbers, and not a standardized "safe" translation that you see on CN.
Plus on CN these days they're only showing the early show. Used to be they'd
play at at midnight and include all the cut scenes, some of which are very
telling and very awesome.
<<> Catra is weak minded in that he copies
>Hiro in blowing up his Gundam and then goes on a childish destructive
>spree when his dad acts stupid and kills himself despite having an
>option to escape and live.
Quatre was under the influence of the infamous Zero system, about which you
will learn more in the series. (It makes you do things like this... Good for
Quatre the statute of limitations for blowing up colonies must be really short!
LOL!)
>Hick Guy
>who has the most annoying dubbed voice seems quite evil in that he
>revels in killing.
I'm positive you mean the HORRIBLY dubbed Duo Maxwell, who sounds to me as if
he's going to say "dude" at the end of every sentence. You might want to give
the original track a try, because then Duo, at least to me, becomes outright
likeable.
<<> Relina Peacecraft who acts likes a brainless fool
>constantly promoting pure peace to a aggressive war manufacturer who
>killed her father, destroyed their kingdom in their past and is taking
>more steps towards global war (with no showing of considering peace).
Relena has a HUGE character arc and by the end of the series, does a lot of
growing up. She became one of my favorite charas in the series. Just bear with
her a while longer. :)
>I do find some characters interesting. Vexs Marquis?
Zechs, as in six.
>Ms. Loins?/Noin? is an kind, intelligent, and loyal officer to Vexs
>Marquis;
Noin, as in nine. Geddit? ~_^ Most of the characters are named after numbers:
Heero Yuy - one (Yuy meaning "only" I think, which makes him the one and only.)
Duo - two, Trowa - three, Quatre - four, Wu Fei - five, Zechs, Septum, Otto,
Noin, Dekim (comes later in the OAV, plus there was another "ten" whom I can't
call to mind right now.) Trieze - thirteen, and countless others (no pun
intended. ;D )
<<she is probably the most likable of the female characters.>>
But by the OAV, she was, hmm, not the same. I don't want to give anything away.
<<>Lady Un has split
>personalities which are nearly opposite of each other.
That's what makes her so awesome. :D (And "Une" = one.)
>Q2: Are the character named the same in Japanese?
For the most part; the pronunciation can be a bit different.
<<> Also,
>what is Catra? It rhymes with Kuma Sultra but in keeping with the
>descriptive use of names, he could be better named as Catboy or
>Cathead in that he looks like a cat with round head and big eyes. :p
Hmmm, to me, Quatre and Kama Sutra sound nothign alike... but anyway, that's
explained above, quatre is french for four and is more rightly pronounced
differently, but, oh well.
>Q3: Are the other Gundam series better in that they have more grown up
>protagonists with better, more realistic motivations? Are all the
>Gundam series connected with each other like a timeline or are they
>alternate universes?
I haven't seen any others but I hear they're fabulous. I do know the timeline
is different and GW is unique in its universe and timeline. From what I
understand so far.
Hope that helps! Give GW another chance, it might grow on you.
later!
jules
to email me, remove "diespam"
JulesKD72
>Une and Relena, they all fall into a quirky little naming system...
"Une" means "one" as well. But I was thinking about this the other day. Sally
Po isn't a number either, is she? Hmm.
>
>The numbers coincide with their mobile suit numbers (Heero pilots Gundam 01,
>etc...)
Incidentally it also coincides with which colony they are each from.
And don't sit there and tell me none of you people snicker everytime someone
makes a reference to Zechs / Noin. LOL just kidding. :)
David Johnston
Why did the Gundam pilots originally attack Earth?
How did they know that Oz existed as an organisation, when the
Alliance didn't?
Now as I understand the factions:
Oz wants to create a system ruled by a warriour class who justify
their dominance by their willingness to kill and be killed by each
other.
The Romafeller Foundation wants a system where the old hereditary
aristocracies are restored to power.
The Alliance wants a system which is politically unified by any means
available and necessary.
The Peacecrafts want a system where military forces are all disbanded,
and international disputes are solved only through reason.
The Looney Engineers want revenge against unspecified persons for
unspecified wrongdoing.
Is that right? (He asked, considering modifiers for Alpha Centauri
factions)
And lastly, why is everyone so impressed by Hiro when he's an idiot?
lboansvgan
into getting fansubs, and yet you never watched the other series?
Why?
The consensus is that they are better.
On 28 Apr 2001 22:59:25 GMT, jule...@aol.comdiespam (JulesKD72)
wrote:
lboansvgan
related as family members or as members of a single organization. Is
it explained, in the fansubs, why random individuals are named 1, 2,
3, 4, ...? Are they the choosen children of God? Do the writers have
a number fetish? Are they just lazy? Crazy? Fanbois?
On 28 Apr 2001 23:02:23 GMT, jule...@aol.comdiespam (JulesKD72)
wrote:
lboansvgan
English translation and the quality of plot in Gundam Wing. Is he
alone in his view?
Who's viewpoint is correct?
JulesKD72
>into getting fansubs, and yet you never watched the other series?
>Why?
>
>The consensus is that they are better.
Because I live in an anime vaccuum. :( I like to preview things before I buy
them, and anime is very, VERY scarce around here. The closest place I can even
buy them once I decide on them (barring the internet) is 50 miles away and has
a teensy selection. I've seen Gundam once or twice. Even so, I like to know
what I'm getting into before I spend my money.
Plus I just spent way too much on Sorcerer Hunters. :D
<<
Jules (below) seems to disagree with you regarding the accuracy of the
English translation and the quality of plot in Gundam Wing. Is he
alone in his view?
Who's viewpoint is correct?>>
I'm a girl, but that's okay, I get that a lot with my name. I guess it all
depends upon which translation you're reading. There are loads of translations
out there. It doesn't change the outright story of Wing, but it does change the
feelings and motivations of it. The only example I can think of now is a scene
in which Zechs, in his horribly acted American voice, asks Otto, "planning on
dying, are you?" In that sneaky overly-villainous voice they gave him. But in a
few other translations I've read, he's saying something more like, "you're
going to die for me, aren't you?" And in the original voice, he doesn't sound
sleazy or sneaky at all, he sounds a bit regretful. It's differences like that
which make or break a scene for me.
You ought to give a listen to the original, it's much less annoying!
later!
Kwesi Ako Kennedy
lboansvgan wrote:
>
> That seems kinda contrived and gimicky, especially since they are not
> related as family members or as members of a single organization.
I think this is another plot point that is lost in the American
translation. They are all trained terrorist working on behalf of the
colonies. Heero's name in particular holds a certain amount of irony
since it's that of a pacifist killed for his outspoken views on colonial
liberation. (I think....it's been awhile)
Their names are meant to be code names similar in the way that terrorist
organizations name individual "cells" that carry out objectives.
Later.....
Kwesi K.
Fish Eye no Miko
>Their names are meant to be code names similar in the way that terrorist
>organizations name individual "cells" that carry out objectives.
Actually, all evidence suggests Quatre and Wufei are those characters' real
names. But, yes, Heero, Duo, and Trowa use code-names.
Catherine Johnson.
--
Remove "stilla" to reply
"Was it all a dream? Or a vision?
Or maybe Dilandau hit me just a little too hard?"
-From the fanfic "Wish You Were Here?" by Rachel Young.
Glenn Shaw
>
> Quatre: 4 (I don't know how to spell it in French. Catre? Or is it spelled
like
> this?)
The French word for "four" is spelled "quatre", so Quatre's name is properly
spelled.
> Wufei: 5 ("wu" is 5 in Chinese)
> Zechs: 6 (I think this is some kind of play on the German pronounciation?
x.o;)
No, not wordplay -- "zechs" is "six" in German.
> Noin: 9 (French again?)
No, probably German again -- "nine" in French is "neuf".
> Treize: 13 (French or Italian, I can't recall which)
It's French, again. Odd, though, pairing a French name with a Middle
Eastern-sounding name like "Khushrenada".
Glenn Shaw
President, Indiana Animation Club (www.indyanime.org)
Glenn Shaw
>
> And don't sit there and tell me none of you people snicker everytime
someone
> makes a reference to Zechs / Noin. LOL just kidding. :)
Well, they *are* lovers, you know. But the 6/9 juxtaposition could have been
a coincidence...
... I hope. O_O;;;;
Fish Eye no Miko
>"JulesKD72" wrote...
>>
>> And don't sit there and tell me none of you people snicker everytime
>> someone makes a reference to Zechs / Noin. LOL just kidding. :)
>
>Well, they *are* lovers, you know.
Do we have proof of this? Yes, they do seem attracted to each other, but
nowhere do we see them do even so much as kiss...
>But the 6/9 juxtaposition could have been a coincidence...
>... I hope. O_O;;;;
I'm not so sure it is.
Arnold Kim
lboansvgan <lboan...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:d0gmets2qf50tr7n5...@4ax.com...
> Q1: How true is the CN dubbed Gundam Wing to the original Japanese
> storyline?
Completely true. This is probably the most accurately done anime ever on US
television. Even in the cut version, the edits are quite minimal.
I realize it is tailored towards a teenage boy's fantasy
> life of being the ones best suited to piloting giant fighting robots.
> Also, it gets boring when the never-in-real-danger Gundams are
> destroying countless enemies at will and blowing up huge asteroids and
> space cities with one shot. However, I occasionally find it a
> semi-decent way to past time, especially when I can fast forward past
> the boring fight scenes.
The fight scenes aren't Gundam Wing's strong suit, especially with all the
reused stock animation.
Fight scenes in Gundam Wing:Endless Waltz, on the other hand, kick _arse_.
> What I can't stand are the personalities of most of the Gundam pilots
> and their friends. Hiro is the worst one. He keeps blowing up his
> Gundams for no good reason; his Gundams are invicible and Hiro is
> nearly invicible but he keeps brooding about some
> no-need-for-gundams-anymore crap and then blowing up his well made
> robots time and time again.
Er- he only blows it up once. He _tries_ to blow it up a couple of times,
though.
But soon he realizes he needs a Gundam
> again. What a stupid fool! Catra is weak minded in that he copies
You mean Quatre.
> Hiro in blowing up his Gundam and then goes on a childish destructive
> spree when his dad acts stupid and kills himself despite having an
> option to escape and live. Jet Li could have been cool but he starts
> acting stupid, becomes a coward, becomes irrational towards Vex's
> offer, and then fights his Gundam friends out of stupidity. Hick Guy
> who has the most annoying dubbed voice seems quite evil in that he
> revels in killing. Relina Peacecraft who acts likes a brainless fool
> constantly promoting pure peace to a aggressive war manufacturer who
> killed her father, destroyed their kingdom in their past and is taking
> more steps towards global war (with no showing of considering peace).
> These idiots need to graduate from high school, go to college, before
> they should be allowed to ramble about their immature, inflexible,
> multi-flawed philosophies (e.g.,
>
peace-at-all-costs-even-if-it-means-being-conquered-by-evil-or-being-killed-
by-evil
> and
> I-have-been-a-soldier-therefore-I-must-fight-forever-or-join-the-circus,
> a wannabee-samurai mentality).
>
> I do find some characters interesting. Vexs Marquis? is a fine
That's Zechs Merquise.
> focused fighter who's plan to infiltrate Oz as a youth and destroy it
> now finds himself permanently altered by the soldier's mentaility.
> Ms. Loins?/Noin?
Noin.
> is an kind, intelligent, and loyal officer to Vexs
> Marquis; she is probably the most likable of the female characters.
Agreed. She's one of my favorite characters in the series.
> Troll-ah is very mysterious and cool.
_Trowa_. Geez, you're really batting a thousand with the names today.:P
> Troll-ah, other than his
> ridiculously long front bangs, seems to act like Vex but has gotten
> closer to achieving his goal of destroying Oz. Lady Un has split
> personalities which are nearly opposite of each other.
>
> Q2: Are the character named the same in Japanese?
Exactly the same. Like I said, this is the most accurately translated anime
ever on US television.
> For example, are
> the Peacecrafts really called Peacecrafts in Japanese because it
> sounds like a dubber who liked the Warcraft computer games decided to
> use "Peacecraft" as a way to signify the extreme pacifism of the
> Peacecrafts (and as a tribute to his favorite computer game).
Nope. Relena Peacecraft is Relena Peacecraft.
> Also,
> what is Catra? It rhymes with Kuma Sultra but in keeping with the
> descriptive use of names, he could be better named as Catboy or
> Cathead in that he looks like a cat with round head and big eyes. :p
No, no, no, no, no. _Quatre_. As in French for the number four. Many of
the names of the Gundam Wing characters are numbers in various languages.
Heero=Japanese representing 1,
Wufei=5,
Duo=2,
Trowa is actually "trois" which is French for 3,
Quatre is French for 4,
Zechs= German for 6,
Noin=French for 9
Treize= French for 13
Quinze= French for 15.
> Q3: Are the other Gundam series better in that they have more grown up
> protagonists with better, more realistic motivations? Are all the
> Gundam series connected with each other like a timeline or are they
> alternate universes?
Alternate universes. Most people who've seen it agree that the original
Gundam universe, which goes by the Universal Century calendar, is the best
of them.
Arnold Kim
Arnold Kim
> Jules (below) seems to disagree with you regarding the accuracy of the
> English translation and the quality of plot in Gundam Wing. Is he
> alone in his view?
>
> Who's viewpoint is correct?
Well, to give you an idea, even the professional anime translator Neil
Nadelman has posted here saying that the Gundam Wing translation is _too_
perfect.
Fans say a lot of subtleties are lost in the dub, but having seen the entire
dub of the series and the first 40 episodes fansubbed, I can say that a good
deal of it is probably people reading too much into some of the dialog...
Arnold Kim
Arnold Kim
JulesKD72 <jule...@aol.comdiespam> wrote in message
news:20010428185925...@ng-ba1.aol.com...
> >Q1: How true is the CN dubbed Gundam Wing to the original Japanese
> >storyline?
>
> AHHHH! NO! IMO the dubbing is terrible, just awful. So much of the
meaning and
> nuances and subtlety is lost. It doesn't seem like it at first, but GW is
a
> very subtle show and therein is its beauty.
You know, judging from some of the Gundam Wing fan reaction, you'd think the
dub was edited by Carl Macek with a chainsaw...
Anime on television had never come as close to the original as GW. I've
seen the fansubs several times as well- sometimes the same episode back to
back, dub and sub, for comparison- and frankly I couldn't notice much of a
difference.
Arnold Kim
JulesKD72
>seen the fansubs several times as well- sometimes the same episode back to
>back, dub and sub, for comparison- and frankly I couldn't notice much of a
>difference.
>
Again, it depends what your sources are. I've read a few scripts on the
internet, and have found great differences. However, I don't speak Japanese,
and until I do, I could never say for sure.
however, evn if you go by just the voices alone, there are hugely different
interpretations. Duo as a dumb sounding surfer dude, and Zechs as a cliche
villian with a hair stuck in his throat were the worst for me. Duo was not as
braindead as Scott MacNiel portrayed him. Duo actually has a quick mind in the
series. Zechs is not a slithering, mincing cliche in a red jacket as Brian
Drummond portrayed him.
However, when you come down to vocal quality and actual acting, those are just
opinions on aesthetics, with nothing to back them except the fact that "I said
so, so there." I find the dubbed version crappy.
(Except for dreamy Mark Hildreth. *sigh!* ^_^ Now THAT is a voice to melt
for, even if he makes Heero sound like he's about 30... or maybe because...)
LOL
Arnold Kim
JulesKD72 <jule...@aol.comdiespam> wrote in message
> >Anime on television had never come as close to the original as GW. I've
> >seen the fansubs several times as well- sometimes the same episode back
to
> >back, dub and sub, for comparison- and frankly I couldn't notice much of
a
> >difference.
> >
>
> Again, it depends what your sources are. I've read a few scripts on the
> internet, and have found great differences. However, I don't speak
Japanese,
> and until I do, I could never say for sure.
The most widely demanded professional anime translator has said that it was
almost anally accurate to the point where the dialog didn't sound natural in
spots- I'd say that's a pretty good source.
And keep in mind that a dub translation and a straight translation are
inherently meant to be a little different.
> however, evn if you go by just the voices alone, there are hugely
different
> interpretations. Duo as a dumb sounding surfer dude, and Zechs as a cliche
> villian with a hair stuck in his throat were the worst for me. Duo was not
as
> braindead as Scott MacNiel portrayed him.
I have to disagree here. We're not exactly talking about Bill and Ted with
the dub. I've always thought of him as friendly, laid back, and the only
guy with a sense of humor in the entire series.
Duo actually has a quick mind in the
> series. Zechs is not a slithering, mincing cliche in a red jacket as Brian
> Drummond portrayed him.
Yes, he was portrayed that way- at first. Watch the dub of Endless Waltz
again and you might change your mind. His voice is _noticeably_ more
subdued as the series goes on.
And you know, I hope you do appreciate the fact that Gundam Wing's fate on
television is about ten times better than what happened to any other anime
series... I mean, can you imagine what might have happened if, say, Dic got
their hands on the series?
Arnold Kim
Nargun
I've seen Gundam W, Gundam X, and Gundam F91 the movie.
They're all crap; Wing's the best. no comment on other gundam though.
Louis
--
Louis Patterson l.patt...@ugrad.unimelb.edu.au
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
What?! The chara he plays is a monotonous bore.
How the heck can you get anything from that voice,
let alone dreamy?! ^_^
BTW, AFAIK, nothing or hardly anything was cut in Toonami,
either version. The edits are mostly for language and blood.
Laters. =)
Stan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ Stanlee Dometita sta...@www.cif.rochester.edu
| ( _| | U of Rochester www.cif.rochester.edu/~stanlee
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/___ |__| |__|___| \ ___|
Nu
>
>lboansvgan <lboan...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:d0gmets2qf50tr7n5...@4ax.com...
>>
>> Q3: Are the other Gundam series better in that they have more grown up
>> protagonists with better, more realistic motivations? Are all the
>> Gundam series connected with each other like a timeline or are they
>> alternate universes?
The Gundam shows set in the original universe (Universal Century or UC) are
a lot grittier (more death, more complex stories, less flashy) on the
whole, even when you factor in that there's some comic relief in the
original MS Gundam series. I don't know what you would call "more
realistic" motivations but the protagonists in the UC series tend to be
thrown into the cockpits of their Gundams through fate rather than being
born and breed into the role like the Wing boys. And there's a level of
parapsychology thrown in via the concept of the "Newtype" (people with
empathic abilities who are more highly evolved than normal humans). In that
sense it's more metaphysical but the mobile suits in the UC tend to be more
equal in power level with each other so there's a stronger sense of
struggle and conflict than in Gundam Wing, where the Gundams overpower
their enemies relatively easily. The protagonists in UC Gundam tend to be
more emotional than the stoic Gundam Wing boys but that's because they
aren't trained killers like Heero, Wufei, etc.
There are 4 separate Gundam universes with the original UC being by far the
largest. But a new series, Turn A Gundam, set in yet another timeline
actually contained elements of all the previous shows so it might be said
that Turn A Gundam actually puts all 4 previous universes together (even if
the fine details are never explained by the writers).
>Alternate universes. Most people who've seen it agree that the original
>Gundam universe, which goes by the Universal Century calendar, is the
>best of them.
>
Well, seeing as how the Universal Century consists of four 40+ episode TV
series, three OVAs, and three original movies (counting the live-action G-
Saviour), it's hard to really compare to the After Colony era (one TV
series plus one OVA series), Future Century era (one TV series), and After
War era (also only TV series) and the CC-era (also one TV series).
Kind of like trying to compare the original Macross universe (Macross,
Macross: Do You Remember Love?, Macross Plus, Macross 7, Macross Dynamite
7) to the Macross II universe (consisting of just one, 6 episode OVA).
Pretty lopsided.
JulesKD72
>The most widely demanded professional anime translator has said that it was
>almost anally accurate to the point where the dialog didn't sound natural in
>spots- I'd say that's a pretty good source.
Perhaps you're right on that. But, when I first read the scripts (without
having seen the subbed version) I got vastly different impressions. Wishiful
thinking on the part of the subbers maybe? Either way, I liked their grittier
interpretations better.
<<>Duo was not
>as
>> braindead as Scott MacNiel portrayed him.
>
>I have to disagree here. We're not exactly talking about Bill and Ted with
>the dub.
Oh yeah we are! :D To me, that's exactly what he sounded like.
<<>I've always thought of him as friendly, laid back, and the only
>guy with a sense of humor in the entire series.
That's true, but I think he comes across that way in the subbed. In the dub, he
just sounds like an annoying noink. And he overdoes it, too. Someone needs to
shove a wet sock in his mouth. ^_^
> Zechs is not a slithering, mincing cliche in a red jacket as Brian
>> Drummond portrayed him.
>
>Yes, he was portrayed that way- at first. Watch the dub of Endless Waltz
>again and you might change your mind. His voice is _noticeably_ more
>subdued as the series goes on.
Exactly, he changes it about halfway through the series in fact. Another thing
that bugged me. He still sounds doofy, just not quite as "did I mention I
was... VILLIANOUS?!!"
ANd did you also notice that they changed voice actors for Sally about a
quarter of the way through as well? (??)
<<>And you know, I hope you do appreciate the fact that Gundam Wing's fate on
>television is about ten times better than what happened to any other anime
>series... I mean, can you imagine what might have happened if, say, Dic got
>their hands on the series?
Heh, I'm selfish; I don't care if it dies out, as long as I get my greedy
hands on it first, and let all the (I'm going to use the word here) poseurs go
back to listening to backstreet boys. I'm sick of going into the one store that
carries any kind of anime and hearing kids squealing about how CUUUUUTE and
SWWWEEEEET Quatre is. That cute and sweet boy went nuts and killed thousands of
people...
Oh well! Talk to you later!
Kwesi Ako Kennedy
JulesKD72 wrote:
> Heh, I'm selfish; I don't care if it dies out, as long as I get my greedy
> hands on it first, and let all the (I'm going to use the word here) poseurs go
> back to listening to backstreet boys. I'm sick of going into the one store that
> carries any kind of anime and hearing kids squealing about how CUUUUUTE and
> SWWWEEEEET Quatre is. That cute and sweet boy went nuts and killed thousands of
> people...
Woah...scary.....
I've never seen a scene like that.
The most tickling anime buying experience I've ever had is when I caught
a father in a yamakule (sp?) trying to decide over Card Captors or
Pokemon 2000. His religion was not the funny part, it's just that he
was kind of frumpy and it his head gear kind of added to the vexation
that was on his face over which DVD was the best choice. I imagine a
daughter or niece that he was indebted to has played her trump card and
now he had to ante-up. Either that or he just wanted to get something
that didn't get the "oh.....yea......thanks....." reaction.
Later...
Kwesi K.
James 'Tengu' King
news:9cg9sc$ck6$1...@bob.news.rcn.net...
>
> JulesKD72 <jule...@aol.comdiespam> wrote in message
> news:20010429004657...@ng-ba1.aol.com...
> > villian with a hair stuck in his throat were the worst for me. Duo was
not
> as
> > braindead as Scott MacNiel portrayed him.
>
> I have to disagree here. We're not exactly talking about Bill and Ted
with
> the dub. I've always thought of him as friendly, laid back, and the only
> guy with a sense of humor in the entire series.
Agreed. I'd throw in a touch of arrogance, but I'm not sure if that has
anything to do with the voice, or just his actions/dialogue (I also get the
exact same impression - 'friendly, laid back, sense of humour, perhaps a tad
arrogant' from the other 2 characters I can think of Scott doing that voice
for - Suezo from Monster Rancher and Rattrap from Beast Machines.). Of
course, 'laid back'/'sense of humour' == 'dumb', donchaknow.
--
James 'Tengu' King - The Tanuki of Total Bewilderment
"Hello, Mr. Postmodern"
-Lyabibrave referring to me on r.a.a.m.
Visit the Anime Tangents Page: http://westwood.fortunecity.com/smith/467/
Desperate, for something to touch
A moment of kindness like that in a dream
Your innocent eyes, have yet no idea
of the path your destiny will follow...
- Cruel Angel's Thesis - English Translation
JulesKD72
>What?! The chara he plays is a monotonous bore.
>How the heck can you get anything from that voice,
>let alone dreamy?! ^_^
Oh, I find it a very yummy voice. The original voice definitely suits Heero
better, but Mark Hildreth won me over, such a resonant voice. Plus, he
absolutely SHONE in the episode "And They Called It Epyon." That was maybe one
of the best agony performances I've heard in a looong time. (Van Fanel,
Dilandu, Carrot Glace are all up there too...)
<<>
>BTW, AFAIK, nothing or hardly anything was cut in Toonami,
>either version. The edits are mostly for language and blood.
>
I thought so too for a while, but then I noticed that a LOT of subtelty was cut
from the five o clock run last year. The best example I can give you was the
short exchange between Dorothy and Relena when Dorothy first came to school.
Relena was railing passionately for peace, and at the five o clock showing,
Dorothy tells her, "it's so beautiful when you talk about your ideals." But in
the midnight run, she tells her, "YOU'RE so beautiful..." Now, had I only seen
the midnight run, I wouldn't have thought twice about it. But the fact that
they felt they had to change it, well, it seemed a bit paranoid. Anyway that's
just one example.
I'm sorry if that fell apart about halfway through - I started this post abotu
3 hours ago but was interrupted by a visit from my sister and I forgot what I
was talking about. ^_^
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
>
> <<>And you know, I hope you do appreciate the fact that Gundam Wing's fate on
> >television is about ten times better than what happened to any other anime
> >series... I mean, can you imagine what might have happened if, say, Dic got
> >their hands on the series?
>
> Heh, I'm selfish; I don't care if it dies out, as long as I get my greedy
> hands on it first, and let all the (I'm going to use the word here) poseurs go
> back to listening to backstreet boys. I'm sick of going into the one store that
> carries any kind of anime and hearing kids squealing about how CUUUUUTE and
> SWWWEEEEET Quatre is. That cute and sweet boy went nuts and killed thousands of
> people...
>
Poseurs?
"Kids squealing about how CUUUUUTE and SWWWEEEEET Quatre is"
are what we hear from GW fangirls - as in anime fangirls! ^_^
If you don't want to hear that, you better get outta anime fandom.
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
> >
> >What?! The chara he plays is a monotonous bore.
> >How the heck can you get anything from that voice,
> >let alone dreamy?! ^_^
>
> Oh, I find it a very yummy voice. The original voice definitely suits Heero
> better, but Mark Hildreth won me over, such a resonant voice. Plus, he
> absolutely SHONE in the episode "And They Called It Epyon." That was maybe one
> of the best agony performances I've heard in a looong time. (Van Fanel,
> Dilandu, Carrot Glace are all up there too...)
Well, if you like that voice,
I'd guess you'd love Ben Stein's monotony. ^_^
>
> <<>
> >BTW, AFAIK, nothing or hardly anything was cut in Toonami,
> >either version. The edits are mostly for language and blood.
> >
>
> I thought so too for a while, but then I noticed that a LOT of subtelty was cut
> from the five o clock run last year. The best example I can give you was the
> short exchange between Dorothy and Relena when Dorothy first came to school.
> Relena was railing passionately for peace, and at the five o clock showing,
> Dorothy tells her, "it's so beautiful when you talk about your ideals." But in
> the midnight run, she tells her, "YOU'RE so beautiful..." Now, had I only seen
Are you sure about that?
I think that's the first I've heard of it,
and people were posting the edits here line-by-line too.
The language edits are either profanity or about God/religion.
> the midnight run, I wouldn't have thought twice about it. But the fact that
> they felt they had to change it, well, it seemed a bit paranoid. Anyway that's
> just one example.
Well, since Google/Deja's archive is back,
just go search for the Toonami GW edit lists
to get an idea about the differences.
>
> I'm sorry if that fell apart about halfway through - I started this post abotu
> 3 hours ago but was interrupted by a visit from my sister and I forgot what I
> was talking about. ^_^
No problem Julie.
Still can't imagine you can get something from that voice. ;p
JulesKD72
>"Kids squealing about how CUUUUUTE and SWWWEEEEET Quatre is"
>are what we hear from GW fangirls - as in anime fangirls! ^_^
>If you don't want to hear that, you better get outta anime fandom.
>
Well, it wasn't so much that they found him cute and sweet, hell, Quatre IS
cute and sweet. But at the same time, they knew nothing, NOTHING about the
series. They were looking at the Gundams in the store and couldn't pronounce
"Epyon." Errr... it was all about teenage boys, as if they were talking about
their favorite boy-bands. I dont' take Gundam or really ANYthing seriously, but
I mean really, give the plot a chance, you know? Sort of like being into a band
just because you think the singer is "hot" and then not knowing a single lyric
to any of the songs.
Later!
jules
"JUST SAY BANANA!"
(Member of the Slender Yellow Fruit Brigade! ^_^)
(to email me, remove "diespam")
JulesKD72
>Well, if you like that voice,
>I'd guess you'd love Ben Stein's monotony. ^_^
Heh heh... noooooo... Hildreth just has this nice timbre and rhythm. :)
Though Ben Stein IS pretty cool...
<<> the midnight run, she tells her, "YOU'RE so beautiful..." Now, had I only
>seen
>
>Are you sure about that?
You bet! I think I have the midnight run ep on tape somewhere. Damned if I
could find it, but I noticed it a few times. (They ran the series, what, three
times before giving it a break?)
<<>The language edits are either profanity or about God/religion.
Ugh, yeah, that too. That bugged me out too. Like in the "Epyon" episode in
which, at five o clock Heero doens't believe in "THAT" and at midnight he
doesn't believe in "GOD." I just tend to think, if you're going to chop it so
badly that it changes the characters feelings and motives, then don't bother.
Again, watering down culture for kids, simply because lots of parents don't
have the guts, the time or the inclination to explain things to them...
> 3 hours ago but was interrupted by a visit from my sister and I forgot what
>I
>> was talking about. ^_^
>
>No problem Julie.
>Still can't imagine you can get something from that voice. ;p
Mmmm HMM! But then I've also got a thing for Kevin Spacey's voice and... I
guess I just like a bit of a psychotic or tense edge. :)
"Julie," eh? Heh, long time since someone's called me that. And it isn't even
my name. ^_^
later!
Arnold Kim
JulesKD72 <jule...@aol.comdiespam> wrote in message
> >
> >The most widely demanded professional anime translator has said that it
was
> >almost anally accurate to the point where the dialog didn't sound natural
in
> >spots- I'd say that's a pretty good source.
>
> Perhaps you're right on that. But, when I first read the scripts (without
> having seen the subbed version) I got vastly different impressions.
Wishiful
> thinking on the part of the subbers maybe? Either way, I liked their
grittier
> interpretations better.
Wait, judging from you other posts, I get the feeling that your beef with
the scripts is mostly with the afternoon version. I'm comparing it mostly
to the Midnight version.
> <<>Duo was not
> >as
> >> braindead as Scott MacNiel portrayed him.
> >
> >I have to disagree here. We're not exactly talking about Bill and Ted
with
> >the dub.
>
> Oh yeah we are! :D To me, that's exactly what he sounded like.
Did he say "dude" and "bogus" and "excellent" a lot? No, they just gave him
a Californian accent.:P
> <<>I've always thought of him as friendly, laid back, and the only
> >guy with a sense of humor in the entire series.
>
> That's true, but I think he comes across that way in the subbed. In the
dub, he
> just sounds like an annoying noink. And he overdoes it, too. Someone needs
to
> shove a wet sock in his mouth. ^_^
>
> > Zechs is not a slithering, mincing cliche in a red jacket as Brian
> >> Drummond portrayed him.
> >
> >Yes, he was portrayed that way- at first. Watch the dub of Endless Waltz
> >again and you might change your mind. His voice is _noticeably_ more
> >subdued as the series goes on.
>
> Exactly, he changes it about halfway through the series in fact. Another
thing
> that bugged me. He still sounds doofy, just not quite as "did I mention I
> was... VILLIANOUS?!!"
He changed it from an inappropriate voice to a more appropriate voice.
What, you wish he would have kept it the same?:) I hope you do realize that
the actors did not get the scripts very far in advance.
As far as the acting goes, you know, YMMV and all that.
> ANd did you also notice that they changed voice actors for Sally about a
> quarter of the way through as well? (??)
That's true, but things happen and actors have to be replaced from time to
time because of circumstances beyond their control.
> <<>And you know, I hope you do appreciate the fact that Gundam Wing's fate
on
> >television is about ten times better than what happened to any other
anime
> >series... I mean, can you imagine what might have happened if, say, Dic
got
> >their hands on the series?
>
> Heh, I'm selfish; I don't care if it dies out, as long as I get my greedy
> hands on it first, and let all the (I'm going to use the word here)
poseurs go
> back to listening to backstreet boys. I'm sick of going into the one store
that
> carries any kind of anime and hearing kids squealing about how CUUUUUTE
and
> SWWWEEEEET Quatre is. That cute and sweet boy went nuts and killed
thousands of
> people...
Yeah, but in that case, it's the _fans_ that are screwed up, not the dub.:D
CN showed Quatre to be just as insane as the original did, so they can't be
blamed for it. The dub itself created far fewer posers than, say, the
Dragon Ball Z and Sailor Moon dubs did. You should be glad that the series
wasn't put through the slaughterhouse like all other anime dubs on US
Television before it.:)
I and a number of other people I know have seen the series in both
languages, and to be honest, we've found it doesn't differ from the original
much more than any other anime dub does from the Japanese version.
Arnold Kim
Arnold Kim
JulesKD72 <jule...@aol.comdiespam> wrote in message
> <<> the midnight run, she tells her, "YOU'RE so beautiful..." Now, had I
only
> >seen
> >
> >Are you sure about that?
>
> You bet! I think I have the midnight run ep on tape somewhere. Damned if I
> could find it, but I noticed it a few times. (They ran the series, what,
three
> times before giving it a break?)
Maybe four. It ran through about nine months.
> <<>The language edits are either profanity or about God/religion.
>
> Ugh, yeah, that too. That bugged me out too. Like in the "Epyon" episode
in
> which, at five o clock Heero doens't believe in "THAT" and at midnight he
> doesn't believe in "GOD." I just tend to think, if you're going to chop it
so
> badly that it changes the characters feelings and motives, then don't
bother.
I don't think "that" precludes "God". And I fail to see how that
constitutes some kind of a rewrite of the character...
> Again, watering down culture for kids, simply because lots of parents
don't
> have the guts, the time or the inclination to explain things to them...
More like changing things for fear of pissing off the wrong people.
Remember, you do still have the Midnight Run version to watch... And very
little was altered from Gundam Wing compared to other anime on television.
Even compared to the official subtitled version on the DVDs- made for the
fan audience- I noticed little change in meaning.
Arnold Kim
jet...@illusions.com
> Glenn Shaw wrote in message ...
>>"JulesKD72" wrote...
>>>
>>> And don't sit there and tell me none of you people snicker everytime
>>> someone makes a reference to Zechs / Noin. LOL just kidding. :)
>>
>>Well, they *are* lovers, you know.
> Do we have proof of this? Yes, they do seem attracted to each other, but
> nowhere do we see them do even so much as kiss...
Well, this is a boys show, and a Gundam show to boot. You don't often see
straight-out romantic scenes like that in either one. Just like on Rurouni
Kenshin: There's clearly a lot of feelings between Kaoru and Kenshin, but
do we ever see them kiss?
Besides, I think Zechs is as clueless about women & romance as the G-Boys are.
Noin is clearly very passionate towards Zechs, but he never responds, leaves forlong periods of time, keeps trying to send her away on some other job, etc.
I see something like this happening between the panels (as it were).
<Noin walks into Zechs' room. She drops her robe to the ground, revealing
nothing beneath. She moves to his side and begins to tease his hair and
kiss his cheek>
Zechs, not noticing her attentions, says "Noin, I'm going away to discover
what it means to be a true warrior. Watch over Releena for me." and then leaves
>>But the 6/9 juxtaposition could have been a coincidence...
>>... I hope. O_O;;;;
> I'm not so sure it is.
Do they use that numeric meaning in Japan?
--
David "No Nickname" Crowe Website currently being moved
Now at jet...@illusions.com
Ethan Hammond
>
> Q1: How true is the CN dubbed Gundam Wing to the original Japanese
> life of being the ones best suited to piloting giant fighting robots.
> Also, it gets boring when the never-in-real-danger Gundams are
> destroying countless enemies at will and blowing up huge asteroids and
> space cities with one shot. However, I occasionally find it a
> semi-decent way to past time, especially when I can fast forward past
> the boring fight scenes.
Exactly the same if you watch the midnight run version.
> What I can't stand are the personalities of most of the Gundam pilots
> and their friends. Hiro is the worst one. He keeps blowing up his
> Gundams for no good reason; his Gundams are invicible and Hiro is
> nearly invicible but he keeps brooding about some
> no-need-for-gundams-anymore crap and then blowing up his well made
> robots time and time again. But soon he realizes he needs a Gundam
> again. What a stupid fool! Catra is weak minded in that he copies
> Hiro in blowing up his Gundam and then goes on a childish destructive
> spree when his dad acts stupid and kills himself despite having an
> option to escape and live. Jet Li could have been cool but he starts
> acting stupid, becomes a coward, becomes irrational towards Vex's
> offer, and then fights his Gundam friends out of stupidity. Hick Guy
> who has the most annoying dubbed voice seems quite evil in that he
> revels in killing. Relina Peacecraft who acts likes a brainless fool
> constantly promoting pure peace to a aggressive war manufacturer who
> killed her father, destroyed their kingdom in their past and is taking
> more steps towards global war (with no showing of considering peace).
> These idiots need to graduate from high school, go to college, before
> they should be allowed to ramble about their immature, inflexible,
> multi-flawed philosophies (e.g.,
> peace-at-all-costs-even-if-it-means-being-conquered-by-evil-or-being-killed-by-evil
> and
> I-have-been-a-soldier-therefore-I-must-fight-forever-or-join-the-circus,
> a wannabee-samurai mentality).
They are supposed to be annoying I guess, but they are better than the pilots
in Eva. *L*
> I do find some characters interesting. Vexs Marquis? is a fine
> focused fighter who's plan to infiltrate Oz as a youth and destroy it
> now finds himself permanently altered by the soldier's mentaility.
> Ms. Loins?/Noin? is an kind, intelligent, and loyal officer to Vexs
> Marquis; she is probably the most likable of the female characters.
> Troll-ah is very mysterious and cool. Troll-ah, other than his
> ridiculously long front bangs, seems to act like Vex but has gotten
> closer to achieving his goal of destroying Oz. Lady Un has split
> personalities which are nearly opposite of each other.
>
> Q2: Are the character named the same in Japanese? For example, are
> the Peacecrafts really called Peacecrafts in Japanese because it
> sounds like a dubber who liked the Warcraft computer games decided to
> use "Peacecraft" as a way to signify the extreme pacifism of the
> Peacecrafts (and as a tribute to his favorite computer game). Also,
> what is Catra? It rhymes with Kuma Sultra but in keeping with the
> descriptive use of names, he could be better named as Catboy or
> Cathead in that he looks like a cat with round head and big eyes. :p
Yes, it is the same.
> Q3: Are the other Gundam series better in that they have more grown up
> protagonists with better, more realistic motivations? Are all the
> Gundam series connected with each other like a timeline or are they
> alternate universes?
The stories that are set in the UC timeline are better than the alternate
continuity stuff, 0083 is short, but especially good.
--
All Purpose Cultural Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
Ethan Hammond
That is because you have only seen the crappy series, I mean F91 is the worst of
them all.
JulesKD72
>three
>> times before giving it a break?)
>
>Maybe four. It ran through about nine months.
And what a glorious time it was... ;D Forgive me but, I'm a sort of anime
newbie and GW opened a lot of doors for me. I've got a real soft spot for it.
<<>which, at five o clock Heero doens't believe in "THAT" and at midnight he
>> doesn't believe in "GOD." I just tend to think, if you're going to chop it
>so
>> badly that it changes the characters feelings and motives, then don't
>bother.
>
>I don't think "that" precludes "God". And I fail to see how that
>constitutes some kind of a rewrite of the character...
It totally does! To me, anyway. Knowing that a character does not believe in
god is a pretty big issue. It defines a whole side of them especially in this
culture. I felt that a huge point was made in that scene.
<<>
>More like changing things for fear of pissing off the wrong people.
That, too... Perhaps CN doesn't care what the kids make of it, but only what
people THINK kids will make of it. Either way though... i don't want to sit
here and absolutely say "don't bother showing it!" b/c, as I said, it opened
doors for me. But rather, at least show it in its truest form. (Dont' bother
with the 5 o clock cut version maybe?)
<<>Remember, you do still have the Midnight Run version to watch... And very
>little was altered from Gundam Wing compared to other anime on television.
Hmm well, I haven't seen much other anime on TV but I have heard about some of
that. Like the altered relationships in Sailor Moon, and I've also heard that
Escaflowne (which I do have beautifully subbed,) was butchered on Fox.
<<>
>Even compared to the official subtitled version on the DVDs- made for the
>fan audience- I noticed little change in meaning.
No, the official DVD script is for the most part true to the dub. I've only
actually seen the first five eps subbed, however have read scripts on the
internet (which were vastly different from the "official" scripts. However IMO,
"official" does not imply "correct" and sometimes misses the heart of th
matter.) There was one telling difference in which, in the English version,
Sally Po first asks Relena about "that young man" in the hospital, but in the
subbed version (the official one) she's asking about "that cute man." And
Relena expresses surprise at that phrase and repeats it.
Or maybe I just obssess over subtleties. But to me, subtleties are what usually
make or break a story.
Nargun
I *know*; that's the tragedy...
Gaijin Dan Mastriani
>actually seen the first five eps subbed, however have read scripts on the
>internet (which were vastly different from the "official" scripts. However
>IMO,
>"official" does not imply "correct" and sometimes misses the heart of th
>matter.) There was one telling difference in which, in the English version,
>Sally Po first asks Relena about "that young man" in the hospital, but in the
>subbed version (the official one) she's asking about "that cute man." And
>Relena expresses surprise at that phrase and repeats it.
However, this assumes that the fan done scripts are the gospel truth, which is
not necessarily so. After all, fan most often does not mean professional
translator.
Dan Mastriani
Yare yare da ze.
"It's like a woman who's taken off her clothes!" Leiji Matsumoto's Siegfried
My home page! http://members.aol.com/gaijind/ Home of the GRIT chat room!
Updated 2/11/99! You demanded the best, and now you got this!
Arnold Kim
JulesKD72 <jule...@aol.comdiespam> wrote in message
> <<>which, at five o clock Heero doens't believe in "THAT" and at midnight
he
> >> doesn't believe in "GOD." I just tend to think, if you're going to chop
it
> >so
> >> badly that it changes the characters feelings and motives, then don't
> >bother.
> >
> >I don't think "that" precludes "God". And I fail to see how that
> >constitutes some kind of a rewrite of the character...
>
> It totally does! To me, anyway. Knowing that a character does not believe
in
> god is a pretty big issue. It defines a whole side of them especially in
this
> culture. I felt that a huge point was made in that scene.
I think that the main point of the line, that he believes in making his own
destiny, was carried pretty well in both versions. But I don't know if his
belief in God per se was really reflected in the rest of the series.
> <<>
> >More like changing things for fear of pissing off the wrong people.
>
> That, too... Perhaps CN doesn't care what the kids make of it, but only
what
> people THINK kids will make of it. Either way though... i don't want to
sit
> here and absolutely say "don't bother showing it!" b/c, as I said, it
opened
> doors for me. But rather, at least show it in its truest form. (Dont'
bother
> with the 5 o clock cut version maybe?)
I think that's something that everyone can live with.:)
> <<>Remember, you do still have the Midnight Run version to watch... And
very
> >little was altered from Gundam Wing compared to other anime on
television.
>
> Hmm well, I haven't seen much other anime on TV but I have heard about
some of
> that. Like the altered relationships in Sailor Moon, and I've also heard
that
> Escaflowne (which I do have beautifully subbed,) was butchered on Fox.
I've seen 'em all. Believe me, Gundam Wing got off very, _very_ lucky. I
also like watching Sailor Moon, and sometimes the dialog there in the dub is
just... well, it's like they didn't even have the original script, just the
animation and a plot synopsis and just made everything else up from there.
Plus they punch it up with "cool" slang, which of course makes it even less
cool.
> <<>
> >Even compared to the official subtitled version on the DVDs- made for the
> >fan audience- I noticed little change in meaning.
>
> No, the official DVD script is for the most part true to the dub.
Really? Did you try watching the dub with the subtitles turned on? The
subs are not "dubtitles" by any stretch of the imagination, yet they still
maintained the same general meaning.
I've only
> actually seen the first five eps subbed, however have read scripts on the
> internet (which were vastly different from the "official" scripts. However
IMO,
> "official" does not imply "correct" and sometimes misses the heart of th
> matter.) There was one telling difference in which, in the English
version,
> Sally Po first asks Relena about "that young man" in the hospital, but in
the
> subbed version (the official one) she's asking about "that cute man." And
> Relena expresses surprise at that phrase and repeats it.
>
> Or maybe I just obssess over subtleties. But to me, subtleties are what
usually
> make or break a story.
I think you're reading too much into certain lines... but that's just me.^_^
Arnold Kim
Fish Eye no Miko
<20010429112322...@ng-fk1.aol.com>...
>I'm sick of going into the one store that carries any kind of anime
>and hearing kids squealing about how CUUUUUTE and
>SWWWEEEEET Quatre is. That cute and sweet boy went nuts and killed
>thousands of people...
No, he didn't. Watch it again: He warned everyone to LEAVE the colonies
before he destroyed them. And all evidence suggests that they did so.
Catherine Johnson.
--
Remove "stilla" to reply
"Was it all a dream? Or a vision?
Or maybe Dilandau hit me just a little too hard?"
-From the fanfic "Wish You Were Here?" by Rachel Young.
Fish Eye no Miko
>Well, if you like that voice, I'd guess you'd love Ben Stein's
>monotony. ^_^
Don't diss Ben Stein, dude! he's actually pretty cool. ^_^
Catherine Johnson. "And now, the Dilandau to my Folken, Nancy Pimental!"
Fish Eye no Miko
>Fish Eye no Miko <fishey...@stillaliveline.com> wrote:
>> Glenn Shaw wrote in message ...
>>>"JulesKD72" wrote...
>>>>
>>>> And don't sit there and tell me none of you people snicker everytime
>>>> someone makes a reference to Zechs / Noin. LOL just kidding. :)
>>>
>>>Well, they *are* lovers, you know.
>
>> Do we have proof of this? Yes, they do seem attracted to each other,
but
>> nowhere do we see them do even so much as kiss...
>
>Well, this is a boys show, and a Gundam show to boot. You don't often see
>straight-out romantic scenes like that in either one.
True.
>Just like on Rurouni Kenshin: There's clearly a lot of feelings between
>Kaoru and Kenshin, but do we ever see them kiss?
No. But in the manga <big ass spoiler>, which is a pretty big hint that
they're in love... ^_^
>Besides, I think Zechs is as clueless about women & romance as the G-Boys
are.
>Noin is clearly very passionate towards Zechs, but he never responds,
leaves
>for long periods of time, keeps trying to send her away on some other job,
etc.
Ok.
Ya know, I'll be honest: I'm just annoyed that many people seem to take a
Zechs/Noin relationship as gospel yet rail against a Trowa/Quatre one even
though there's no "real" proof for either. If someone's going to call
someone else on T&Q being a couple, than people should get called on
assuming Z&N are, as well.
>>>But the 6/9 juxtaposition could have been a coincidence...
>>>... I hope. O_O;;;;
>
>> I'm not so sure it is.
>
>Do they use that numeric meaning in Japan?
I don't know actually.
Catherine Johnson.
RiikiTikiTavi
Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
> JulesKD72 wrote in message
> <20010429112322...@ng-fk1.aol.com>...
>
> >I'm sick of going into the one store that carries any kind of anime
> >and hearing kids squealing about how CUUUUUTE and
> >SWWWEEEEET Quatre is. That cute and sweet boy went nuts and killed
> >thousands of people...
>
> No, he didn't. Watch it again: He warned everyone to LEAVE the colonies
> before he destroyed them. And all evidence suggests that they did so.
There is absolutely no evidence that they did so, or that they had time to
do so.
Quatre probably killed more people than the rest of the Gundams combined.
There's no attempt to gloss that over in the series, just "fans" of the show
who don't want to deal with sweet little Quatre's true history.
Gundam Wing probably has more fanon problems than any other anime I can
think of. ("Fanon" = fan fiction "facts" being confused with what actually
happened in the show -- the "oh, Quatre never killed civilians, they all got
on hang-gliders and evacuated the colonies" dodge is one of them)
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
> >Poseurs?
> >"Kids squealing about how CUUUUUTE and SWWWEEEEET Quatre is"
> >are what we hear from GW fangirls - as in anime fangirls! ^_^
> >If you don't want to hear that, you better get outta anime fandom.
> >
>
> Well, it wasn't so much that they found him cute and sweet, hell, Quatre IS
> cute and sweet. But at the same time, they knew nothing, NOTHING about the
> series. They were looking at the Gundams in the store and couldn't pronounce
> "Epyon." Errr... it was all about teenage boys, as if they were talking about
> their favorite boy-bands. I dont' take Gundam or really ANYthing seriously, but
> I mean really, give the plot a chance, you know? Sort of like being into a band
> just because you think the singer is "hot" and then not knowing a single lyric
> to any of the songs.
>
Uh... that's what the GW fangirls are like! ^_^
Some even admit they don't really care about the plot
or the Gundams or haven't even watched the show.
They just like the boys and sometimes to pair them up.
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
>
> <<>The language edits are either profanity or about God/religion.
>
> Ugh, yeah, that too. That bugged me out too. Like in the "Epyon" episode in
> which, at five o clock Heero doens't believe in "THAT" and at midnight he
> doesn't believe in "GOD." I just tend to think, if you're going to chop it so
> badly that it changes the characters feelings and motives, then don't bother.
>
> Again, watering down culture for kids, simply because lots of parents don't
> have the guts, the time or the inclination to explain things to them...
I've mentioned this before in another past thread.
There is almost an absence of religion in the media
because the networks don't want to risk offending anybody,
plus nowadays many people like it that way anyhow because,
while most people are still religious, they just want to keep it
privately instead of publicly, which is falling out of fashion.
However, one "effect" of that attitude is that things like this
(mentioning God in a cartoon) aren't looked at favorably either.
So basically, since people nowadays don't like TV "going religious"
on them (except on properly labeled religious channels/programs),
the same applies the for their cartoons and anime on TV.
(Why would they give anime an exception?)
>
> > 3 hours ago but was interrupted by a visit from my sister and I forgot what
> >I
> >> was talking about. ^_^
> >
> >No problem Julie.
> >Still can't imagine you can get something from that voice. ;p
>
> Mmmm HMM! But then I've also got a thing for Kevin Spacey's voice and... I
> guess I just like a bit of a psychotic or tense edge. :)
>
> "Julie," eh? Heh, long time since someone's called me that. And it isn't even
> my name. ^_^
>
Jules, Julie, Mike, Mikey, Bill, Billy, etc etc. ;-p
Laters. =)
STan
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
> S.t.A.n.L.e.E wrote in message ...
>
> >Well, if you like that voice, I'd guess you'd love Ben Stein's
> >monotony. ^_^
>
> Don't diss Ben Stein, dude! he's actually pretty cool. ^_^
>
Why do you think I'm dissing?
He does monotony pretty well. ^_^
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
> > (They ran the series, what,
> >three
> >> times before giving it a break?)
> >
> >Maybe four. It ran through about nine months.
>
> And what a glorious time it was... ;D Forgive me but, I'm a sort of anime
> newbie and GW opened a lot of doors for me. I've got a real soft spot for it.
That's understandable.
People say the same for Star Blazers, Robotech, etc.
>
> <<>which, at five o clock Heero doens't believe in "THAT" and at midnight he
> >> doesn't believe in "GOD." I just tend to think, if you're going to chop it
> >so
> >> badly that it changes the characters feelings and motives, then don't
> >bother.
> >
> >I don't think "that" precludes "God". And I fail to see how that
> >constitutes some kind of a rewrite of the character...
>
> It totally does! To me, anyway. Knowing that a character does not believe in
> god is a pretty big issue. It defines a whole side of them especially in this
> culture. I felt that a huge point was made in that scene.
"A whole side of them?" That's a pretty strong description.
"In this culture?" GW is made in Japan for Japanese.
If it shows "a whole side of them" in this culture,
then that's unintentional and not in the original for the Japanese.
So maybe, one can say you're the one changing their characters. ^_^
>
> <<>
> >More like changing things for fear of pissing off the wrong people.
>
> That, too... Perhaps CN doesn't care what the kids make of it, but only what
> people THINK kids will make of it. Either way though... i don't want to sit
> here and absolutely say "don't bother showing it!" b/c, as I said, it opened
> doors for me. But rather, at least show it in its truest form. (Dont' bother
> with the 5 o clock cut version maybe?)
They can't "not bother" with the afternoon version
- that's the version that actually gets them the ratings.
It's the midnight version that's expendable;
in fact, Sean Akins (in charge of Toonami) even admitted that
they can't afford to air shows solely for the midnight version
because there's not enough midnight ratings to justify the costs.
>
> <<>
> >Even compared to the official subtitled version on the DVDs- made for the
> >fan audience- I noticed little change in meaning.
>
> No, the official DVD script is for the most part true to the dub. I've only
> actually seen the first five eps subbed, however have read scripts on the
> internet (which were vastly different from the "official" scripts. However IMO,
> "official" does not imply "correct" and sometimes misses the heart of th
> matter.) There was one telling difference in which, in the English version,
> Sally Po first asks Relena about "that young man" in the hospital, but in the
> subbed version (the official one) she's asking about "that cute man." And
> Relena expresses surprise at that phrase and repeats it.
>
> Or maybe I just obssess over subtleties. But to me, subtleties are what usually
> make or break a story.
>
Just be careful not to read too much into it and
laden it with more importance that it deserves.
BTW, it would also be nice of you if you keep credits/tags
about who wrote what when and such for all the text replies
you don't erase, like what I have above:
"On 29 Apr 2001, JulesKD72 wrote:"
Thanks; it's just good usenetiquette. ;-)
jet...@illusions.com
>>Just like on Rurouni Kenshin: There's clearly a lot of feelings between
>>Kaoru and Kenshin, but do we ever see them kiss?
> No. But in the manga <big ass spoiler>, which is a pretty big hint that
> they're in love... ^_^
Yes, but that was at the _very end_ of the manga, in a special epilogue that wasonly printed in an artbook, right?
>>Besides, I think Zechs is as clueless about women & romance as the G-Boys
> are.
>>Noin is clearly very passionate towards Zechs, but he never responds,
> leaves
>>for long periods of time, keeps trying to send her away on some other job,
> etc.
> Ok.
> Ya know, I'll be honest: I'm just annoyed that many people seem to take a
> Zechs/Noin relationship as gospel yet rail against a Trowa/Quatre one even
> though there's no "real" proof for either. If someone's going to call
> someone else on T&Q being a couple, than people should get called on
> assuming Z&N are, as well.
The difference is time. Zechs and Noin have known each other for years, all
the way back to their academy days. And even back then, Noin was very
devoted to Zechs, holding back her performance so he'd score higher and so
on. Trowa and Quatre just met, and while a spontaneous deep relationship
isn't impossible (especially in anime), there isn't as much grounding as Z&N's
relationship has.
That is, IMHO, why Z&N being a couple is taken as a given. Plus Noin's sword
tapping is deeply symbolic! :)
Fish Eye no Miko
>Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
>> JulesKD72 wrote in message
>> <20010429112322...@ng-fk1.aol.com>...
>>
>> >I'm sick of going into the one store that carries any kind of anime
>> >and hearing kids squealing about how CUUUUUTE and
>> >SWWWEEEEET Quatre is. That cute and sweet boy went nuts and
>> >killed thousands of people...
>>
>> No, he didn't. Watch it again: He warned everyone to LEAVE the
colonies
>> before he destroyed them. And all evidence suggests that they did so.
>
>There is absolutely no evidence that they did so, or that they had time to
>do so.
We see him in the colony, and it looked pretty darn empty to me.
>Quatre probably killed more people than the rest of the Gundams combined.
>There's no attempt to gloss that over in the series, just "fans" of the
show
>who don't want to deal with sweet little Quatre's true history.
If he HAD killed all those people, I'd deal with it (hey, two of my fave
characters are Vejita and Dilandau, both of whom have killed many
"innocent" people). But, as I said, when we see him in the colony, it
looks empty, suggesting that it WAS mostly evacuated before he destroyed
it.
Fish Eye no Miko
>Fish Eye no Miko <fishey...@stillaliveline.com> wrote:
>> jet...@illusions.com wrote in message ...
>
>>>Just like on Rurouni Kenshin: There's clearly a lot of feelings between
>>>Kaoru and Kenshin, but do we ever see them kiss?
>>
>> No. But in the manga <big ass spoiler>, which is a pretty big hint that
>> they're in love... ^_^
>
>Yes, but that was at the _very end_ of the manga, in a special epilogue
>that was only printed in an artbook, right?
Crap, I can't find RK volume 28. I'll get back to you on that...
>> Ya know, I'll be honest: I'm just annoyed that many people seem to take
a
>> Zechs/Noin relationship as gospel yet rail against a Trowa/Quatre one
even
>> though there's no "real" proof for either. If someone's going to call
>> someone else on T&Q being a couple, than people should get called on
>> assuming Z&N are, as well.
>
>The difference is time. Zechs and Noin have known each other for years,
all
>the way back to their academy days. And even back then, Noin was very
>devoted to Zechs, holding back her performance so he'd score higher and so
>on. Trowa and Quatre just met,
Ok, what about people who seem to thing a Heero/Relena relationship is a
given (and those people do exist)? They don't know each other any better
than Trowa and Quatre.
>and while a spontaneous deep relationship isn't impossible (especially in
anime),
>there isn't as much grounding as Z&N's relationship has.
Fair enough.
>That is, IMHO, why Z&N being a couple is taken as a given. Plus Noin's
sword
>tapping is deeply symbolic! :)
And I'd argue that Trowa being able to sense Quatre's feelings is pretty
symbolic, seeing as he's never shown to have that ability with any of the
others, even Heero, whom he takes care of for a month (Quatre being able to
feel Trowa's feelings isn't as significant, since he feels other's
feelings, too).
jet...@illusions.com
>>Fish Eye no Miko <fishey...@stillaliveline.com> wrote:
>>> jet...@illusions.com wrote in message ...
>>
>>>>Just like on Rurouni Kenshin: There's clearly a lot of feelings between
>>>>Kaoru and Kenshin, but do we ever see them kiss?
>>>
>>> No. But in the manga <big ass spoiler>, which is a pretty big hint that
>>> they're in love... ^_^
>>
>>Yes, but that was at the _very end_ of the manga, in a special epilogue
>>that was only printed in an artbook, right?
> Crap, I can't find RK volume 28. I'll get back to you on that...
Well, it was still at the very end of the story...
>>> Ya know, I'll be honest: I'm just annoyed that many people seem to take
> a
>>> Zechs/Noin relationship as gospel yet rail against a Trowa/Quatre one
> even
>>> though there's no "real" proof for either. If someone's going to call
>>> someone else on T&Q being a couple, than people should get called on
>>> assuming Z&N are, as well.
>>
>>The difference is time. Zechs and Noin have known each other for years,
> all
>>the way back to their academy days. And even back then, Noin was very
>>devoted to Zechs, holding back her performance so he'd score higher and so
>>on. Trowa and Quatre just met,
> Ok, what about people who seem to thing a Heero/Relena relationship is a
> given (and those people do exist)? They don't know each other any better
> than Trowa and Quatre.
They're just nuts. :) Heero clearly has feelings for Relena, but the've never
gotten in the way of him trying to kill her (as late as Endless Waltz) or
kept him around. That's not something that lends itself to their possible
co-habitation...
>>and while a spontaneous deep relationship isn't impossible (especially in
> anime),
>>there isn't as much grounding as Z&N's relationship has.
> Fair enough.
>>That is, IMHO, why Z&N being a couple is taken as a given. Plus Noin's
> sword
>>tapping is deeply symbolic! :)
> And I'd argue that Trowa being able to sense Quatre's feelings is pretty
> symbolic, seeing as he's never shown to have that ability with any of the
> others, even Heero, whom he takes care of for a month (Quatre being able to
> feel Trowa's feelings isn't as significant, since he feels other's
> feelings, too).
Hmmmm, maybe there is some Newtype bonding at work here. Heero/Relena and
Quatre/Trowa. That'd explain how they feel each other's feelings.
--
David "No Nickname" Crowe jet...@illusions.com Website being moved
"Inflammable means flammable?! What a country!"
-Dr. Nick Riviera
AntEGM111
>Date: 04/30/2001 11:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <terbf83...@corp.supernews.com>
>
>RiikiTikiTavi wrote in message <3AED6C5B...@NOSPAMPALhotmail.com>...
>
>>Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
>>> JulesKD72 wrote in message
>>> <20010429112322...@ng-fk1.aol.com>...
>>>
>>> >I'm sick of going into the one store that carries any kind of anime
>>> >and hearing kids squealing about how CUUUUUTE and
>>> >SWWWEEEEET Quatre is. That cute and sweet boy went nuts and
>>> >killed thousands of people...
>>>
>>> No, he didn't. Watch it again: He warned everyone to LEAVE the
>colonies
>>> before he destroyed them. And all evidence suggests that they did so.
>>
>>There is absolutely no evidence that they did so, or that they had time to
>>do so.
>
>
>We see him in the colony, and it looked pretty darn empty to me.
>
>>Quatre probably killed more people than the rest of the Gundams combined.
>>There's no attempt to gloss that over in the series, just "fans" of the
>show
>>who don't want to deal with sweet little Quatre's true history.
>
>
>If he HAD killed all those people, I'd deal with it (hey, two of my fave
>characters are Vejita and Dilandau, both of whom have killed many
>"innocent" people). But, as I said, when we see him in the colony, it
>looks empty, suggesting that it WAS mostly evacuated before he destroyed
>it.
>
I don't know . . . still kinda reminded be of the "evacuation" in the early
DBZ dub when Nappa nuked that city.
Arnold Kim
AntEGM111 <ante...@aol.complex> wrote in message
news:20010501010226...@ng-fc1.aol.com...
> >If he HAD killed all those people, I'd deal with it (hey, two of my fave
> >characters are Vejita and Dilandau, both of whom have killed many
> >"innocent" people). But, as I said, when we see him in the colony, it
> >looks empty, suggesting that it WAS mostly evacuated before he destroyed
> >it.
> >
>
> I don't know . . . still kinda reminded be of the "evacuation" in the
early
> DBZ dub when Nappa nuked that city.
I saw the episode fansubbed. It was no different.
Arnold Kim
SkyeFire
<RiikiT...@NOSPAMPALhotmail.com> writes:
>
>> No, he didn't. Watch it again: He warned everyone to LEAVE the colonies
>> before he destroyed them. And all evidence suggests that they did so.
>
>There is absolutely no evidence that they did so, or that they had time to
>do so.
Actually, there is -- during the scene where Quatre is wandering about the
inside of the colony in Wing Zero, rambling to himself in a downright
*disturbing* manner, and tearing up the landscape, there is *no* other visible
motion in the colony: no reaction shots, no masses of people running in panic,
no traffic in the distant background, nothing. It's not ironclad proof, but I
suspect it was intended by the animators to be indicaitive.
Fish Eye no Miko
Thank you. That's what I was talking about when I said, "We see him in the
colony and no one's around". I quite distinctly remember that scene. Had
the writers/animators meant there to be people in the colony, I'm will to
be we would have seen screaming, running crowds. We see NO ONE. We don't
hear or see so much as a dog or a bird in the colony. So "all evidence"
suggests the colony is empty. I never said we have proof, just that the
evidence suggests it. And in this case, I take such evidence as proof,
since I get the feeling that's what the creators intended.
Catherine Johnson.
--
e-mail me at Thr...@aol.com
AntEGM111
>Date: 05/01/2001 8:52 AM Pacific Daylight Time
>Message-id: <9cmo6b$de6$1...@bob.news.rcn.net>
IIRC, the colony he went into and trampled was the second colony in his list
(it wasn't too clear what happened to the residents of the first one), and we
all know what happened to the people in that resource satelite he got first.
jet...@illusions.com
There are hundreds of thousands of people on a colony. To evacuate one would
be a tremendous undertaking, and not something the government would do on the
basis of an anonymous threat. The fact that they evacuated the second colony
suggests that something terrible happened to the first one that made the
government believe...
Juliet A. Youngren
> "KireiSarah" wrote...
> >
> > Wufei: 5 ("wu" is 5 in Chinese)
The Cinq Kingdom is also a Number 5--"cinq" is 5 in French.
> > Noin: 9 (French again?)
>
> No, probably German again -- "nine" in French is "neuf".
"Nine" in German is "neun," which is pronounced the same as "Noin."
I'm kind of curious why they chose Lady Une's name, when there is a
feminine name meaning "one" which already exists: Una. Not to mention
that the pronunciation they use is the masculine form of "one" in French.
All I can think is that it's supposed to be her last name.
Juliet
Khaos512
series, its also very underated as well. I never saw F91 but I have heard good
things.
Juliet A. Youngren
> And lastly, why is everyone so impressed by Hiro when he's an idiot?
If it's any comfort, I hated *all* the pilots (except maybe Duo) for the
first several episodes. The only thing that kept me renting past DVD 1
was that I was interested in Zechs, Noin, and Treize. I didn't learn to
like the pilots until after the "self-destruct" incident.
When I've finished the series, I intend to go back and re-watch the first
5 episodes or so to see if they make any more sense.
I'm enjoying Gundam W, but I'm not sure if I want to try any of the other
Gundam series when I'm done. This is about my limit of military/political
sci-fi grit, and it looks like the others are going to go further in that
direction. Anybody want to convince me otherwise??
Juliet
Juliet A. Youngren
> >>But the 6/9 juxtaposition could have been a coincidence...
> >>... I hope. O_O;;;;
>
> > I'm not so sure it is.
>
> Do they use that numeric meaning in Japan?
Even if they don't, the author might know about the Western meaning and
intend it as a privte joke.
Juliet