Fruits Basket curse question
Henry J Cobb
from being embraced by the other gender.
How exactly do they manage that one?
-HJC
Fish Eye no Miko
1. It only happens to 13 of them; there are still plenty of Sohmas who can
have normal relationships.
2. They *can* embrace members of the opposite sex if that person also have
the curse (Kagura clings to Kyou, for example), so two cursed individuals
could theoretically have kids.
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
"I did not lose my virginity, I hate that phrase. I know exactly where my
virginity went."
-Stumbleine, on Fark.com.
Chris Mattern
1) They can embrace other Jyuunishi
2) The Sohma clan is quite large and mostly not directly cursed, but
they are under the curse. In fact, as far as is known, all the
parents of the current Jyuunishi are or were not themselves directly
cursed.
3) It's possible to have sex without embracing. The web can
educate you further on this point, if you care to.
--
Christopher Mattern
"Which one you figure tracked us?"
"The ugly one, sir."
"...Could you be more specific?"
Phil Yff
Two cursed Sohmas do not transform when they embrace one another as we saw
with Kagura (boar) and Kyo (cat). Also, spoiler from the manga:
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
A
C
E
Although the anime does not show any of the curses being lifted, the manga
does. The manga is nearing its conclusion and a big part of the end is
freeing the characters from the curses. Since this is a major story arc, I
won't go into detail. However, even before this story arc develops, we
learn of other members of the Sohma family who have had their curses
lifted. Thus, we know it is possible for someone who was previously cursed
to be freed from the curse and lead a normal life.
Mata ato de,
Phil Yff
Hand-of-Omega
manga ever say?
Dex
terry king
> My question: How did the curse come to be in the first place? Does the
> manga ever say?
Yes, but it's a very recent revelation - ch 131, which should appear in
vol. 23, I think (the US release is only up to vol. 14). And I'll
leave it at that, though anyone looking for that chapter might check,
oh, StopTazmo or something.
Terry King | Forgotten books need rescuing.
preacher mit edu | - R.O.D. the TV
Henry J Cobb
She seems to be the only character with really freakish eyes.
-HJC
elsie
"Henry J Cobb" <hc...@io.com> wrote in message
news:mKOdnbaSQ95_bZTY...@io.com...
> Does Tohru ever transform into an Owl? ;-)
>
> She seems to be the only character with really freakish eyes.
>
> -HJC
I've been rewatching Fruits Basket this week now that it's airing on
Funimation's Colours block. Watching Kagura's introduction again tonight
reminds me of the Sohma family's true curse. The zodiac is just a metaphor.
The true curse is hereditary forms of mental illness. Kagura is clearly
bipolar. Kyo and Hatsuharu have rage issues. Yuki suffers from clinical
depression as do several of the others.
laurie
paranormalized
> "Henry J Cobb" <hc...@io.com> wrote in message
> news:mKOdnbaSQ95_bZTY...@io.com...
>> Does Tohru ever transform into an Owl? ;-)
>>
>> She seems to be the only character with really freakish eyes.
>>
>> -HJC
>
> I've been rewatching Fruits Basket this week now that it's airing on
> Funimation's Colours block. Watching Kagura's introduction again tonight
Ok, which channel is that?
> reminds me of the Sohma family's true curse. The zodiac is just a metaphor.
> The true curse is hereditary forms of mental illness. Kagura is clearly
> bipolar. Kyo and Hatsuharu have rage issues. Yuki suffers from clinical
> depression as do several of the others.
>
Ooooh. Nifty move, professor.
Now for the next issue- is the dominance of whasisname, the
zodiac-leader, is that just dysfunctional family issues making the
illnesses worse, or what? o_O
> laurie
Continuing in that vein... Tohru is an example of- the uses of gentle
pharma and counseling? ^_^
The idea that She Is A Drug Metaphor blows my mind, but Tohru is clearly
a gentle, mostly-wholesome, utterly-voluntary medication regime. ^_~
But it all breaks down at the last, crucial step. If you *do* take that
last step, and include the Full-Body Animal Transformations, what *is*
Fruits Basket?
Given that the Zodiac Curse is the Hook, we start from there. It is an
intensely Familial thing, and utterly private, and mostly destructive,
(until Tohru), so it could be Anything. A distorted Religion turned
Familial-Cult, a hidden Familial History of mental illness, a Family
Business turned rotten-and-stifling, etc.
The key? Bring in the outsiders, stir the pot, try to Love and
Understand before you try to 'fix'.
Either that, or you call in The Law and External Society, to let them
Judge Things. But there's still too much that is good and true in the
Sohma's lives to go that route yet, and FB is not a morality play, anyways.
Is my analysis wrong, professor?
Jonathan Fisher
--
to email, ROT13 cnenabeznyvmrq NG rneguyvax QBG arg
elsie
"paranormalized" <us...@example.net> wrote in message
news:uQDOg.12056$bM....@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> elsie wrote:
>> "Henry J Cobb" <hc...@io.com> wrote in message
>> news:mKOdnbaSQ95_bZTY...@io.com...
>>> Does Tohru ever transform into an Owl? ;-)
>>>
>>> She seems to be the only character with really freakish eyes.
>>>
>>> -HJC
>>
>> I've been rewatching Fruits Basket this week now that it's airing on
>> Funimation's Colours block. Watching Kagura's introduction again tonight
>
> Ok, which channel is that?
>
systems. Colours is a kind of multicultural public access type channel.
>
>> reminds me of the Sohma family's true curse. The zodiac is just a
>> metaphor. The true curse is hereditary forms of mental illness. Kagura is
>> clearly bipolar. Kyo and Hatsuharu have rage issues. Yuki suffers from
>> clinical depression as do several of the others.
>>
>
> Ooooh. Nifty move, professor.
>
> Now for the next issue- is the dominance of whasisname, the zodiac-leader,
> is that just dysfunctional family issues making the illnesses worse, or
> what? o_O
>
members of the family through fear and emotional abuse rooted in the
controller's own deep-seated paranoia and anxiety. I had one in my family,
now deceased. (The difference in my own mental health before and after this
relative passed away still surprises me.)
> Continuing in that vein... Tohru is an example of- the uses of gentle
> pharma and counseling? ^_^
>
> The idea that She Is A Drug Metaphor blows my mind, but Tohru is clearly a
> gentle, mostly-wholesome, utterly-voluntary medication regime. ^_~
>
Yes, although I really think she blew it in her reaction to Kagura. She
treated the situation as though Kagura was a normal girl and Kyo was being
unfair by not wanting to be beat up by manic Kagura.
>
> But it all breaks down at the last, crucial step. If you *do* take that
> last step, and include the Full-Body Animal Transformations, what *is*
> Fruits Basket?
>
>
>
> Given that the Zodiac Curse is the Hook, we start from there. It is an
> intensely Familial thing, and utterly private, and mostly destructive,
> (until Tohru), so it could be Anything. A distorted Religion turned
> Familial-Cult, a hidden Familial History of mental illness, a Family
> Business turned rotten-and-stifling, etc.
>
Yes, exactly. Any family turned in on itself and distrustful of outsiders
will exhibit similar pathologies. You'll have scapegoats like Kyo. You'll
have the dominant character and (his) favorite target. You'll have the ones
who will do anything to appease the controller and others who've managed to
distance themselves. You'll have master manipulators like Shigure who figure
out how to stay on the good side of the controller and maybe even protect
the others a little.
> The key? Bring in the outsiders, stir the pot, try to Love and Understand
> before you try to 'fix'.
>
And that's what Tohru is doing. She is making it possible for Yuki and Kyo
to connect with their classmates and see another way of interacting with
people. But also, in the recent US volumes of the manga, that interaction
(with the student council members) is making it possible for Yuki to see how
other families can be just as dysfunctional in a different sort of way.
>
>
> Either that, or you call in The Law and External Society, to let them
> Judge Things. But there's still too much that is good and true in the
> Sohma's lives to go that route yet, and FB is not a morality play,
> anyways.
>
>
The Sohmas are too rich to be exposed to The Law and External Society.
Child Protective Services only ever seems to go after poor families.
>
>
> Is my analysis wrong, professor?
I think you're on target.
> Jonathan Fisher
> --
> to email, ROT13 cnenabeznyvmrq NG rneguyvax QBG arg
laurie
star...@yahoo.com
elsie wrote:
> "paranormalized" <us...@example.net> wrote in message
> news:uQDOg.12056$bM....@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> > elsie wrote:
> >> "Henry J Cobb" <hc...@io.com> wrote in message
> >> news:mKOdnbaSQ95_bZTY...@io.com...
> >>> Does Tohru ever transform into an Owl? ;-)
No, she transforms into an eternally cute young girl -- in every
episode. :)
> >> I've been rewatching Fruits Basket this week now that it's airing on
> >> Funimation's Colours block. Watching Kagura's introduction again tonight
> >> reminds me of the Sohma family's true curse. The zodiac is just a
> >> metaphor. The true curse is hereditary forms of mental illness. Kagura is
> >> clearly bipolar. Kyo and Hatsuharu have rage issues. Yuki suffers from
> >> clinical depression as do several of the others.
> > Ooooh. Nifty move, professor.
Well, Yuki's background (as exposed in latter manga volumes) might
indicate that. One of the continuing threads in both the anime and the
manga is that either the cursed children are loved to the point of
being shielded from all or shunned completely. It would be hard to
believe there would not be mental illness from all that.
> > Now for the next issue- is the dominance of whasisname, the zodiac-leader,
> > is that just dysfunctional family issues making the illnesses worse, or
> > what? o_O
> >
> Yep. Any given family will have a member who tries to control the other
> members of the family through fear and emotional abuse rooted in the
> controller's own deep-seated paranoia and anxiety. I had one in my family,
> now deceased. (The difference in my own mental health before and after this
> relative passed away still surprises me.)
And we know Yuki was psychologically abused by Akito. And we also know
that Akito has no qualms about physical abuse of even Tohru!
> > Continuing in that vein... Tohru is an example of- the uses of gentle
> > pharma and counseling? ^_^
> >
> > The idea that She Is A Drug Metaphor blows my mind, but Tohru is clearly a
> > gentle, mostly-wholesome, utterly-voluntary medication regime. ^_~
> >
> Yes, although I really think she blew it in her reaction to Kagura. She
> treated the situation as though Kagura was a normal girl and Kyo was being
> unfair by not wanting to be beat up by manic Kagura.
That seemed to be the reaction of everyone else involved when they
first see the boar.
Of course, there is the real question of whether Tohru is still
maturing as a girl-woman transition...
> > But it all breaks down at the last, crucial step. If you *do* take that
> > last step, and include the Full-Body Animal Transformations, what *is*
> > Fruits Basket?
> >
> > Given that the Zodiac Curse is the Hook, we start from there. It is an
> > intensely Familial thing, and utterly private, and mostly destructive,
> > (until Tohru), so it could be Anything. A distorted Religion turned
> > Familial-Cult, a hidden Familial History of mental illness, a Family
> > Business turned rotten-and-stifling, etc.
With all the associated metaphors...
> Yes, exactly. Any family turned in on itself and distrustful of outsiders
> will exhibit similar pathologies. You'll have scapegoats like Kyo. You'll
> have the dominant character and (his) favorite target. You'll have the ones
> who will do anything to appease the controller and others who've managed to
> distance themselves. You'll have master manipulators like Shigure who figure
> out how to stay on the good side of the controller and maybe even protect
> the others a little.
Couldn't say that much better.
Of course, I'm beginning to have an idea of how Tohru might finally
smash the curse once and for all.
Hint, in the form of a purely speculative question: What _would_ Akito
turn into if Tohru embraced him?
Mike
Ken Arromdee
paranormalized <us...@example.net> wrote:
>> reminds me of the Sohma family's true curse. The zodiac is just a metaphor.
>> The true curse is hereditary forms of mental illness. Kagura is clearly
>> bipolar. Kyo and Hatsuharu have rage issues. Yuki suffers from clinical
>> depression as do several of the others.
>pharma and counseling? ^_^
>
>The idea that She Is A Drug Metaphor blows my mind, but Tohru is clearly
>a gentle, mostly-wholesome, utterly-voluntary medication regime. ^_~
The real problem is that anime is full of characters who act in ways that
in real life would imply mental instability--I could equally well claim
that Ranma 1/2 is a metaphor for mental illness (even inherited mental
illness too).
It's the reverse of the argument that characters like Naruto or Yuffie Kisaragi
aren't immature because kids act like them in real life. That has the same
problem--in this case, that other characters of similar ages *don't* act
like them.
--
Ken Arromdee / arromdee_AT_rahul.net / http://www.rahul.net/arromdee
"You know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk
on water." --Samantha Carter, Stargate SG-1
elsie
"Ken Arromdee" <arro...@green.rahul.net> wrote in message
news:eef51d$4p4$1...@blue.rahul.net...
> In article <uQDOg.12056$bM....@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> paranormalized <us...@example.net> wrote:
>>> reminds me of the Sohma family's true curse. The zodiac is just a
>>> metaphor.
>>> The true curse is hereditary forms of mental illness. Kagura is clearly
>>> bipolar. Kyo and Hatsuharu have rage issues. Yuki suffers from clinical
>>> depression as do several of the others.
>>Continuing in that vein... Tohru is an example of- the uses of gentle
>>pharma and counseling? ^_^
>>
>>The idea that She Is A Drug Metaphor blows my mind, but Tohru is clearly
>>a gentle, mostly-wholesome, utterly-voluntary medication regime. ^_~
>
> The real problem is that anime is full of characters who act in ways that
> in real life would imply mental instability--I could equally well claim
> that Ranma 1/2 is a metaphor for mental illness (even inherited mental
> illness too).
Sure, anime is full of such characters. As for Ranma, I would rather defer
to Susan Napier's analysis, although I did once read an incredible fanfic in
which Ranma is framed for murder by Happosai. That fanfic really made clear
the underlying tragedy of Ranma's life that the Takahashi covers up in
slapstick. I wish I remembered what the title of that fic was and where I
found it.
>
> It's the reverse of the argument that characters like Naruto or Yuffie
> Kisaragi
> aren't immature because kids act like them in real life. That has the
> same
> problem--in this case, that other characters of similar ages *don't* act
> like them.
I'm not really following your point in this paragraph, but that's probably
due to my loss of IQ to the common cold.
> --
> Ken Arromdee / arromdee_AT_rahul.net / http://www.rahul.net/arromdee
>
> "You know, you blow up one sun and suddenly everyone expects you to walk
> on water." --Samantha Carter, Stargate SG-1
laurie
Galen Musbach
>
>Hint, in the form of a purely speculative question: What _would_ Akito
>turn into if Tohru embraced him?
>
spoiler in rot 13 (from the later manga volumes)
N jbzna
-Galen
Henry J Cobb
> The real problem is that anime is full of characters who act in ways that
> in real life would imply mental instability--I could equally well claim
> that Ranma 1/2 is a metaphor for mental illness (even inherited mental
> illness too).
So it's really Fruitcake Basketcase?
And the three magical girls are here once again.
Tohru Honda == Kasumi Tendo
Saki Hanajima == Nabiki Tendo
Arisa Uotani == Akane Tendo
-HJC
dot_wa...@hotmail.com
> I've been rewatching Fruits Basket this week now that it's airing on
> Funimation's Colours block. Watching Kagura's introduction again tonight
> reminds me of the Sohma family's true curse. The zodiac is just a metaphor.
> The true curse is hereditary forms of mental illness.
What about that other old standby family curse, Alcoholism?
(Or they could just be a little bit too inbred, like the old-school
Egyptians...)
-"Dot"
paranormalized
> "Ken Arromdee" <arro...@green.rahul.net> wrote in message
> news:eef51d$4p4$1...@blue.rahul.net...
>> In article <uQDOg.12056$bM....@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
>> paranormalized <us...@example.net> wrote:
>>> Continuing in that vein... Tohru is an example of- the uses of gentle
>>> pharma and counseling? ^_^
>>>
>>> The idea that She Is A Drug Metaphor blows my mind, but Tohru is clearly
>>> a gentle, mostly-wholesome, utterly-voluntary medication regime. ^_~
>> The real problem is that anime is full of characters who act in ways that
>> in real life would imply mental instability--I could equally well claim
>> that Ranma 1/2 is a metaphor for mental illness (even inherited mental
>> illness too).
>
> Sure, anime is full of such characters. As for Ranma, I would rather defer
> to Susan Napier's analysis, although I did once read an incredible fanfic in
> which Ranma is framed for murder by Happosai. That fanfic really made clear
> the underlying tragedy of Ranma's life that the Takahashi covers up in
> slapstick. I wish I remembered what the title of that fic was and where I
> found it.
Ok, maybe Takahashi is covering up High Tragedy with the tacky wallpaper
of Slapstick, or perhaps she's polluting the Pure waters of Slapstick
with the sticky crude-oil of tragedy. ^_~
In any case, so long as nothing permanent happens, it *can't* be
Tragedy, though it could be a form of Purgatory. Kinda feels like one,
doesn't it? How many volumes now, with only semi-resolution?
>> It's the reverse of the argument that characters like Naruto or Yuffie
>> Kisaragi
>> aren't immature because kids act like them in real life. That has the
>> same
>> problem--in this case, that other characters of similar ages *don't* act
>> like them.
>
> I'm not really following your point in this paragraph, but that's probably
> due to my loss of IQ to the common cold.
Hmmm. When I got sick last week, it wasn't the common cold, but it
didn't steal IQ. It just shifted stuff around, is all.
Mental functions, that is,
paranormalized
preferable to get counseling and help while they're still alive, then
accept them for the lunatics they are, while maintaining your distance.
And giving what *small* insights you can to others, of course. The
big insights are self-assembling, or something...
Family is fun, even when they are crazy. Maybe especially when they're
crazy. Ask me about the self-appointed ?Paladin? in my tree sometime,
if you want to compare scars and such...
Though mine may be lesser than yours, I dunno. It all depends on how
much everyone wants to move on, or something, right?
>> Continuing in that vein... Tohru is an example of- the uses of gentle
>> pharma and counseling? ^_^
>>
>> The idea that She Is A Drug Metaphor blows my mind, but Tohru is clearly a
>> gentle, mostly-wholesome, utterly-voluntary medication regime. ^_~
>>
> Yes, although I really think she blew it in her reaction to Kagura. She
> treated the situation as though Kagura was a normal girl and Kyo was being
> unfair by not wanting to be beat up by manic Kagura.
Or maybe she figured they have a semi-romantic dynamic, which they did.
There are places where even the Pharmacist should tread lightly, if
they are to tread at all. Unless you want some whats-it-called-again?
?Cialis? to motivate you to *ahem*. ^_~
>> But it all breaks down at the last, crucial step. If you *do* take that
>> last step, and include the Full-Body Animal Transformations, what *is*
>> Fruits Basket?
>>
>>
>>
>> Given that the Zodiac Curse is the Hook, we start from there. It is an
>> intensely Familial thing, and utterly private, and mostly destructive,
>> (until Tohru), so it could be Anything. A distorted Religion turned
>> Familial-Cult, a hidden Familial History of mental illness, a Family
>> Business turned rotten-and-stifling, etc.
>>
> Yes, exactly. Any family turned in on itself and distrustful of outsiders
> will exhibit similar pathologies. You'll have scapegoats like Kyo. You'll
> have the dominant character and (his) favorite target. You'll have the ones
> who will do anything to appease the controller and others who've managed to
> distance themselves. You'll have master manipulators like Shigure who figure
> out how to stay on the good side of the controller and maybe even protect
> the others a little.
>
Whatever. I'm glad I got my family, and they do their best, and my
sisters are raising *fun* kids.
Is that the difference between a likeable family and a dislikable one?
I've had mine help me through all sorts of weirdness, so I dunno. :/
>> The key? Bring in the outsiders, stir the pot, try to Love and Understand
>> before you try to 'fix'.
>>
> And that's what Tohru is doing. She is making it possible for Yuki and Kyo
> to connect with their classmates and see another way of interacting with
> people. But also, in the recent US volumes of the manga, that interaction
> (with the student council members) is making it possible for Yuki to see how
> other families can be just as dysfunctional in a different sort of way.
>>
>> Either that, or you call in The Law and External Society, to let them
>> Judge Things. But there's still too much that is good and true in the
>> Sohma's lives to go that route yet, and FB is not a morality play,
>> anyways.
>>
>>
> The Sohmas are too rich to be exposed to The Law and External Society.
> Child Protective Services only ever seems to go after poor families.
Ah. But that's if you *insist* on *your* interpretation, and insist
that the story could only have been told with Canonical Tohru. ^_^
If instead of a Healer, Tohru was a Mystery Protagonist, a hard-nosed
Detective, then the story goes different. No? No CPS there still, but
threaten to bring in the Media, the Paparazzi and such, and BANG!!
But this is standard shoujo, those other sorts of stories are more josei
at the least. Dunno what comes next, though.
>>
>> Is my analysis wrong, professor?
>
> I think you're on target.
>
Trust in The Force, or use the Targeting System? ^_^
star...@yahoo.com
Now THAT is interesting...
Mike (Yes, I saw the translation...)
Jorge A Pratt
"elsie" <lcub...@earthlink.net> escribió en el mensaje
news:feFOg.2007$UG4...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Ken Arromdee" <arro...@green.rahul.net> wrote in message
> news:eef51d$4p4$1...@blue.rahul.net...
>> The real problem is that anime is full of characters who act in ways that
>> in real life would imply mental instability--I could equally well claim
>> that Ranma 1/2 is a metaphor for mental illness (even inherited mental
>> illness too).
>
> Sure, anime is full of such characters. As for Ranma, I would rather defer
> to Susan Napier's analysis,
Ooh. <Googles it>
Damn. Available only through Amazon's resellers. Having been a gigantic fan
of Ranma 1/2 for the last twelve years, I'd kill for an in-depth analysis.
The old threads on rec.arts.anime.fandom are too amateurish after having
read your FMA ones. :D
> although I did once read an incredible fanfic in which Ranma is framed for
> murder by Happosai. That fanfic really made clear the underlying tragedy
> of Ranma's life that the Takahashi covers up in slapstick. I wish I
> remembered what the title of that fic was and where I found it.
I have a feeling it's "Stigma" by J. Austin Wilde:
http://www.fanfic.net/pub/Anime/FanFictions/Ranma/ranma.stigma.gz
Sadly, his and Bridget's site has apparently vanished off the face of the
net. :( Their fanfiction makes for excellent reading, and although most of
it can be found elsewhere, it was nice to have it available in a single
repository.
Jorge A. Pratt
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
>
> "elsie" <lcub...@earthlink.net> escribió en el mensaje
> news:feFOg.2007$UG4...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> >
> > "Ken Arromdee" <arro...@green.rahul.net> wrote in message
> > news:eef51d$4p4$1...@blue.rahul.net...
>
> >> The real problem is that anime is full of characters who act in ways that
> >> in real life would imply mental instability--I could equally well claim
> >> that Ranma 1/2 is a metaphor for mental illness (even inherited mental
> >> illness too).
> >
> > Sure, anime is full of such characters. As for Ranma, I would rather defer
> > to Susan Napier's analysis,
>
> Ooh. <Googles it>
>
> Damn. Available only through Amazon's resellers. Having been a gigantic fan
> of Ranma 1/2 for the last twelve years, I'd kill for an in-depth analysis.
> The old threads on rec.arts.anime.fandom are too amateurish after having
> read your FMA ones. :D
>
Hey! Those Ranma vs. Ryouga analyses alone are worth a thesis or two!
Or how about who loves Ranma the most? ;-)
Laters. =)
Stan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ LostRune+sig [at] UofR [dot] net
| ( _| | http://www.uofr.net/~lostrune/
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___|__| |__|___| \ ___|
Farix
More spoilers that are also in rot 13.
Ba gbc bs gung, Nxvgb unf unq ure snve funer bs culfvbybtvpny nohfr sebz
ure zbgure.
Farix
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Aje RavenStar
> In article <feFOg.2007$UG4...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net>,
> elsie <lcub...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> It's the reverse of the argument that characters like Naruto or Yuffie
>>> Kisaragi
>>> aren't immature because kids act like them in real life. That has the
>>> same
>>> problem--in this case, that other characters of similar ages *don't* act
>>> like them.
>>I'm not really following your point in this paragraph, but that's probably
>>due to my loss of IQ to the common cold.
>
> supposed instability is par for the course in anime and that in the
> context
> of the series, it isn't mental instability even though it would be in real
> life.
>
> "Immature" characters are the opposite: their immaturity is abnormal in
> anime
> and normal in real life. If you judge them by real life standards, you
> come to the wrong conclusion (in this case, that they're *not* immature
> rather than that they *are* mentally ill.)
>
> Likewise, Naruto isn't a story where all the kids are being abused, even
> though training 12 year olds to be killers is abuse in real life. Kiki's
> Delivery Service isn't abuse either, even though tossing out a 13 year old
> into the city with few skills and no money would lead to tragedy in real
> life.
> --
After following this discussion for awhile, I'm going to have to invoke the
J R R Tolkein / L. Frank Baum rule. Just because a story can be interpreted
as a metaphor for something does not make it one. In the case of The Lord
of the Rings, some consider it to be about WWI and reconstruction
afterwards, or about the nuclear bomb, while Tolkein himself insisted there
was no allegory involved in any of his works; In Baum's case, The Wizard of
Oz has often been described as a metaphor of US politics in the 1890's with
overtones of the Populist movement, although Baum never said anything of the
sort during his lifetime (and such interpretations only involve The Wizard
of Oz book itself, none of the thirteen other books in Baum's series).
Natsuki Takaya (pen name) slips a lot of margin notes in the manga, and none
of them I've seen (V. 1-6 and 12) mentions any such thing. Doesn't mean
it's there, doesn't mean it isn't, just that the creator did not or isn't
admitting having such intentions. But it is fun to speculate, eh?
Still, I prefer the view of it from the director of the anime in one of the
box set's extras, to the effect the story is just about people dealing with
real life problems, which they'd have even without the extra factor the
family curse brings into the equation, and that's what makes this particular
one special (and emotional/mental problems are certainly one possibility,
but not the only one - there's financial problems, which is one of the main
things Tohru represents, etc).
paranormalized
> "elsie" <lcub...@earthlink.net> escribió en el mensaje
> news:feFOg.2007$UG4...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
*SNIP SNIP*
>> although I did once read an incredible fanfic in which Ranma is framed for
>> murder by Happosai. That fanfic really made clear the underlying tragedy
>> of Ranma's life that the Takahashi covers up in slapstick. I wish I
>> remembered what the title of that fic was and where I found it.
>
> I have a feeling it's "Stigma" by J. Austin Wilde:
> http://www.fanfic.net/pub/Anime/FanFictions/Ranma/ranma.stigma.gz
>
> Sadly, his and Bridget's site has apparently vanished off the face of the
> net. :( Their fanfiction makes for excellent reading, and although most of
> it can be found elsewhere, it was nice to have it available in a single
> repository.
>
If you still have the links in an old browser bookmark folder,
archive.org might have the content...
http://www.archive.org/web/web.php
That's how I keep my old links to a wonderful geocities Akitaroh Daiichi
filmography around, you know. Here's how I kept a geocities website
alive-to-me, for example...
http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Towers/4684/daichi_main.html
Ah, archive.org. Keeping dead interweb sites in a state that, if not
alive, is not yet dead either.
loving that stasis,
Fish Eye no Miko
> After following this discussion for awhile, I'm going to have to
> invoke the J R R Tolkein / L. Frank Baum rule. Just because a
> story can be interpreted as a metaphor for something does not make
> it one. In the case of The Lord of the Rings, some consider it to
> be about WWI and reconstruction afterwards, or about the nuclear
> bomb, while Tolkein himself insisted there was no allegory involved
> in any of his works;
In a special I saw before the LotR marathon they had recently at my local
art theater, one thing that was mentioned few times (I seem to recall they
were quoting something Tolkien said himself) was: "Applicability does not
man allegory". IOW, just because a story looks like a specific situation,
and its elements, message(s), etc. can be applied to that situation does
not mean the author intended for it to an allegory for that situation.
Catherine Johnson.
--
fenm at cox dot net
Right now you are reading my .sig quote.