The Wings of Honneamise [Blu-ray]
Heikki "vermes" Heiska
afedakendragon
Bandai Visual's Blu-Ray releases are all Region-A, which encompasses
both Japan and North America, but are no indication of an English
language track or subtitles.
--
Abraham Evangelista
Heikki "vermes" Heiska
Have to buy a region free player again.
Paul Pietromonaco
news:adb2d943-6305-46e1...@y38g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
I have the U.S. Version of this release. There are English subtitles for
sure - not sure about English language track. Amazon indicates there is an
English language track, but I'll check my copy when I get home and post a
follow-up.
Cheers,
Paul
iira...@gmail.com
<ver...@dnainternet.net> wrote:
>afedakendragon wrote:
>> On May 19, 11:17 am, "Heikki \"vermes\" Heiska"
>> <ver...@dnainternet.net> wrote:
>>> What region code does RSF:WoH (DB) have?
>>
>> Bandai Visual's Blu-Ray releases are all Region-A, which encompasses
>> both Japan and North America, but are no indication of an English
>> language track or subtitles.
>
>Have to buy a region free player again.
Blu-Ray has only 3 region codes which listed below.
A Americas; East and Southeast Asia.
B Africa, Europe, Oceania; Middle East; French territories; Greenland.
C Central and South Asia; Mongolia, Russia, and People's Republic of
China.
Captain Nerd
iira...@gmail.com wrote:
Even with the saner region encoding, this sums up my feeling about
blu-ray:
http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/080518.html
Cap.
--
Since 1989, recycling old jokes, cliches, and bad puns, one Usenet
post at a time!
Operation: Nerdwatch http://www.nerdwatch.com
Only email with "TO_CAP" somewhere in the subject has a chance of being read
8-Bit Star
> In article <aph334p8niamkekvia1t5adfcug962f...@4ax.com>,
>
>
>
> iirad...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Mon, 19 May 2008 19:47:06 +0300, "Heikki \"vermes\" Heiska"
> > <ver...@dnainternet.net> wrote:
>
> > >afedakendragon wrote:
> > >> On May 19, 11:17 am, "Heikki \"vermes\" Heiska"
> > >> <ver...@dnainternet.net> wrote:
> > >>> What region code does RSF:WoH (DB) have?
>
> > >> Bandai Visual's Blu-Ray releases are all Region-A, which encompasses
> > >> both Japan and North America, but are no indication of an English
> > >> language track or subtitles.
>
> > >Have to buy a region free player again.
>
> > Blu-Ray has only 3 region codes which listed below.
>
> > A Americas; East and Southeast Asia.
> > B Africa, Europe, Oceania; Middle East; French territories; Greenland.
> > C Central and South Asia; Mongolia, Russia, and People's Republic of
> > China.
>
> Even with the saner region encoding, this sums up my feeling about
> blu-ray:
>
> http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/080518.html
>
> Cap.
I think that comic summarizes EVERY sane, thinking
person's thoughts on Blu-Ray.
I read a report recently (don't remember the source,
sorry) that the sales of BR hardware is actually
DECLINING now that the BR/HDDVD war is over.
I hope its true and if it is, I take it as a good sign.
Heikki "vermes" Heiska
> On May 19, 11:15 pm, Captain Nerd <cptn...@nerdwatch.com> wrote:
>> In article <aph334p8niamkekvia1t5adfcug962f...@4ax.com>,
>> iirad...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Mon, 19 May 2008 19:47:06 +0300, "Heikki \"vermes\" Heiska"
>>> <ver...@dnainternet.net> wrote:
>>>> afedakendragon wrote:
>>>>> On May 19, 11:17 am, "Heikki \"vermes\" Heiska"
>>>>> <ver...@dnainternet.net> wrote:
>>>>>> What region code does RSF:WoH (DB) have?
>>>>> Bandai Visual's Blu-Ray releases are all Region-A, which encompasses
>>>>> both Japan and North America, but are no indication of an English
>>>>> language track or subtitles.
>>>> Have to buy a region free player again.
>>> Blu-Ray has only 3 region codes which listed below.
>>> A Americas; East and Southeast Asia.
>>> B Africa, Europe, Oceania; Middle East; French territories; Greenland.
>>> C Central and South Asia; Mongolia, Russia, and People's Republic of
>>> China.
>> Even with the saner region encoding, this sums up my feeling about
>> blu-ray:
>>
>> http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/080518.html
>
> person's thoughts on Blu-Ray.
>
But at least with BR there wont be any problems with the old NTSC to
PAL, NTSC to PAL conversion.
Robotech_Master
glitches that have plagued the DVD?
--
Chris Meadows aka | WWW: http://www.terrania.us | Somebody
Robotech_Master | ICQ: 5477383 AIM: RoboMastr | help, I'm
robotec...@gmail.com | Skype, LJ-Gizmo: Robotech_Master | trapped in
robo...@eyrie.org | Yahoo: robotech_master_2000 | a sig file!
Jim diGriz
> A Americas; East and Southeast Asia.
> B Africa, Europe, Oceania; Middle East; French territories; Greenland.
> C Central and South Asia; Mongolia, Russia, and People's Republic of
> China.
Last time I looked at a map, China (either one) was in East Asia.
JdG
Dave Watson
> I'm a bit curious: does the BluRay of WoH suffer from the same
> glitches that have plagued the DVD?
It probably won't, since the problem with Mangle Ent.'s DVD, were due
to a screwup on Mangle's part. Never heard of anyone complaining
about the R2JPN DVD.
Watson.
Captain Nerd
Jim diGriz <jimd...@myjaring.net> wrote:
No, no, China's in Eurasia, China's always been in Eurasia.
Didn't you get The Memo?
ender
> I read a report recently (don't remember the source,
> sorry) that the sales of BR hardware is actually
> DECLINING now that the BR/HDDVD war is over.
There are several reasons for this, one of them being Sony no longer
subsiding the players, so their prices have gone up somewhat. Did anybody
really expect anything else to happen after one of the formats died off?
--
< ender ><><><><><><><>â—Š<><><><><><><>â—Š<><><><><><><>< e at ena dot si >
Because 10 billion years' time is so fragile, so ephemeral...
it arouses such a bittersweet, almost heartbreaking fondness.
Robotech_Master
> No, no, China's in Eurasia, China's always been in Eurasia.
> Didn't you get The Memo?
In *my* Asia? I thought it was in *everybody's* Asia.
Oliver
> Even with the saner region encoding, this sums up my feeling about
> blu-ray:
>
> http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/080518.html
>
> Cap.
Amen to that.
Besides, all you BR devotees are going to feel real dumb (and/or
extremely out of pocket) when they start introducing super-HD 4000p
DVDs in a few years' time.
Dave Watson
IIRC, it was Dave Baranyi who posted here recently saying that his
DVDs looked better in his BluRay player, so he wasn't going to replace
his existing collection. Just like how he has a good collection of
LDs (I've seen them first-hand, believe me) which he's happy with as
well, and he hasn't made any noise about wanting to replace those.
Watson
Who also remembers his metric fuckton ton of R2 DVDs (including the
infamous volume of Mouse that put Mr. B off of buying R2s blind) and
the now-departed Wall o' Tapes from the trading with his friend in
Japan.
bobbie sellers
NewEgg is advertising hard drive replacement with 120 GB of
solid state memory for about $600. So I think the BR replacement
will be memory chips of about the same capacity with the contents
pre-written if you buy a show or to which you will write when
the download is complete. Prices if they follow the general rule
will be about 10 cents a gigabyte by the time it reaches the
consumer shelf. Just like the game chips today and stored in
similar containers when you have a collection. They sell these
cute plastic boxes with slots that hold the game chips at the
local Ichiban Kan shop. I doubt today that I will last long
enough to see this change in format but maybe tomorrow I will
be more optimistic.
later
bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)
--
bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco
Ningen banji Human beings do
Samazama no Every single kind
Baka a suru Of stupid thing
--- 117th edition of Haifu Yanagidaru published in 1832
afedakendragon
> Oliver wrote:
> > On May 20, 5:15 am, Captain Nerd <cptn...@nerdwatch.com> wrote:
>
> >> Even with the saner region encoding, this sums up my feeling about
> >> blu-ray:
>
> >> http://www.sheldoncomics.com/archive/080518.html
>
> >> Cap.
>
> > Amen to that.
>
> > Besides, all you BR devotees are going to feel real dumb (and/or
> > extremely out of pocket) when they start introducing super-HD 4000p
> > DVDs in a few years' time.
>
> NewEgg is advertising hard drive replacement with 120 GB of
> solid state memory for about $600. So I think the BR replacement
LINK?!? I cruise newegg daily, and I've never seen anything even
remotely close to that price or size.
8-Bit Star
> Besides, all you BR devotees are going to feel real dumb (and/or
> extremely out of pocket) when they start introducing super-HD 4000p
> DVDs in a few years' time.
I honestly think Blu-Ray is going to be the last new movie format,
and there's still a chance it'll sink and we'll be back to good ol'
DVD.
I mean, for one thing there is NO SUBSTANTIAL DIFFERENCE
between DVD and Blu-Ray quality. I watched bits of the
Simpsons movie in both formats on a TV capable of 1080p.
Didn't see a damn bit of difference.
For another thing, any increase now would be pointless.
The human eye simply can not see well enough to notice
the difference at higher resolutions, much the same way
it can't see at speeds such as 70mhz.
The movie-buying public isn't like video gamers. Video games
have given companies this idea that everyone will stupidly
replace perfectly fine hardware with new hardware just
because you released a new medium, but... that's only
true for video gamers, who aren't exactly the brightest
bulbs in the lot.
[Considering my screenie is an homage to a class of
game console technology, I hope I didn't just jinx myself]
Robotech_Master
> On May 22, 6:12 am, Oliver <oacoom...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> > Besides, all you BR devotees are going to feel real dumb (and/or
> > extremely out of pocket) when they start introducing super-HD 4000p
> > DVDs in a few years' time.
> I honestly think Blu-Ray is going to be the last new movie format,
> and there's still a chance it'll sink and we'll be back to good ol'
> DVD.
There really isn't any point in going any higher resolution than 1080
vertical lines, because 1080 equals or exceeds the resolution of 35mm
film stock. You won't get any advantage from adding more lines
because almost all your source wouldn't look any better. (The main
exception being iMax and other large-footprint film formats.)
See http://www.cst.fr/IMG/pdf/35mm_resolution_english.pdf
> I mean, for one thing there is NO SUBSTANTIAL DIFFERENCE between
> DVD and Blu-Ray quality. I watched bits of the Simpsons movie in
> both formats on a TV capable of 1080p. Didn't see a damn bit of
> difference.
Assuming that your DVD players really were outputting at 1080p, then
that's because upconverting players are really good at upconverting.
The real benefit of HD formats, to my mind, is how much more stuff
they can hold in general. Whether the studios will take best
advantage of that is an open question.
BluRay is going to be slowly adopted, and will probably only start to
make the cut once 1) more people have gotten HDTVs, 2) the players
have gotten really cheap, like DVD players have, and 3) people start
replacing their old worn-out standard DVD players and figure they
might as well go with a BluRay since they can get it for about the
same amount of money. I don't see that happening any time soon. And
it's possible that by the time it would, broadband will be pervasive
enough and flash cards cheap enough that it will be more worth
studios' time to sell DVD-bundle movie downloads or movie mem cards.
After all, when you get right down to it, movies are just data, and as
the pervasiveness of the DivX/XviD downloading formats shows, a lot of
people don't have anything against watching movies on their
computers. Heck, DVD players that can play DivXes have been around
for a while, and now you're even starting to see DVD players with USB
ports that can accept movie-bearing thumb drives.
bobbie sellers
> On May 22, 12:50 pm, bobbie sellers <bl...@california.com> wrote:
>> Oliver wrote:
>>> DVDs in a few years' time.>> NewEgg is advertising hard drive replacement with 120 GB of
>> solid state memory for about $600. So I think the BR replacement
>
> LINK?!? I cruise newegg daily, and I've never seen anything even
> remotely close to that price or size.
Actually is $669
afedakendragon
> On May 22, 6:12 am, Oliver <oacoom...@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > Besides, all you BR devotees are going to feel real dumb (and/or
> > extremely out of pocket) when they start introducing super-HD 4000p
> > DVDs in a few years' time.
>
> I honestly think Blu-Ray is going to be the last new movie format,
> and there's still a chance it'll sink and we'll be back to good ol'
> DVD.
>
> I mean, for one thing there is NO SUBSTANTIAL DIFFERENCE
> between DVD and Blu-Ray quality. I watched bits of the
> Simpsons movie in both formats on a TV capable of 1080p.
> Didn't see a damn bit of difference.
You're watching the Simpsons movie. Animation on the whole doesn't
benefit quite as much from the HD conversion. In addtion, theatrical
or not, the Simpson's art style doesn't normally lend itself to the
kind of details that HD brings out. Try this with a theatrical live
action movie, and you should be able to see the difference.
I'll answer your datum with one of my own. I've been watching HDTV
caps/Fansubs and I can easily tell the difference between them and the
eventual DVD releases. The HD stuff looks better. Sharper. And
that's on a 32" 720p HDTV setup. On my 24" 1920x1200 monitor, the
difference is stunning.
> For another thing, any increase now would be pointless.
> The human eye simply can not see well enough to notice
> the difference at higher resolutions, much the same way
> it can't see at speeds such as 70mhz.
>
> The movie-buying public isn't like video gamers. Video games
> have given companies this idea that everyone will stupidly
> replace perfectly fine hardware with new hardware just
> because you released a new medium, but... that's only
> true for video gamers, who aren't exactly the brightest
> bulbs in the lot.
Firstly on behalf of gamers everwhere, DIE IN A FIRE YOU ARROGANT
BASTARD. WTF gives a half-blind relic the right accuse me of being
dim for being a gamer? :-)
Secondly, the new hardware does offer concrete advantages, not all of
which are related to graphics. Larger storage mediums make multiple
disc titles less likely, eliminating disc switchng and wear and tear.
Faster/Multiple processors give developers the opportunity to play
with more complex environments and AI behaviors.
> [Considering my screenie is an homage to a class of
> game console technology, I hope I didn't just jinx myself]
You might be able to convince me that the intent behind pushing a new
console is to obsolete the previous hardware. I'd be inclined to
agree. But that's far from the ONLY reason, and it's certainly not
the COMPELLING reason to upgrade.
--
Abraham Evangelista
afedakendragon
> afedakendragon wrote:
> > On May 22, 12:50 pm, bobbie sellers <bl...@california.com> wrote:
> >> Oliver wrote:
> >>> DVDs in a few years' time.>> NewEgg is advertising hard drive replacement with 120 GB of
> >> solid state memory for about $600. So I think the BR replacement
>
> > LINK?!? I cruise newegg daily, and I've never seen anything even
> > remotely close to that price or size.
>
> Actually is $669
>
I stand corrected! And possibly poorer. Whenever that check shows
up, I'll be stimulating newegg's portion of the economy. :-)
--
Abraham Evangelista
8-Bit Star
> Try this with a theatrical live
> action movie, and you should be able to see the difference.
Local comic book guy ran Star Wars (not sure which edition)
on an HDTV he had in the store. It looked... well I could see
very minor pixellation, but I'm not sure if that's normal or not.
I assume it was a regular DVD since to my knowledge SW
isn't out in Hi-Def yet.
> Firstly on behalf of gamers everwhere, DIE IN A FIRE YOU ARROGANT
> BASTARD. WTF gives a half-blind relic the right accuse me of being
> dim for being a gamer? :-)
Well, have YOU ever retrieved the Amulet of Yendor? ;-)
(I haven't, but still...)
> Secondly, the new hardware does offer concrete advantages, not all of
> which are related to graphics. Larger storage mediums make multiple
> disc titles less likely, eliminating disc switchng and wear and tear.
> Faster/Multiple processors give developers the opportunity to play
> with more complex environments and AI behaviors.
Suit yourself, but I'm not entirely convinced any of that is really
all that useful or necessary.
Glenn Shaw
> Heck, DVD players that can play DivXes have been around for a while, and
> now you're even starting to see DVD players with USB ports that can
> accept movie-bearing thumb drives.
</me looks at his Philips DVP5982, which can play DivX discs, has a USB
port for thumb drives, and can upconvert DVDs to 1080p over HDMI>
--
Glenn Shaw • Indianapolis, IN USA
To reply by e-mail, swap the net and cast
Rob Kelk
wrote:
>On Thu, 22 May 2008 19:04:31 +0000, Robotech_Master wrote:
>
>> Heck, DVD players that can play DivXes have been around for a while, and
>> now you're even starting to see DVD players with USB ports that can
>> accept movie-bearing thumb drives.
>
></me looks at his Philips DVP5982, which can play DivX discs, has a USB
>port for thumb drives, and can upconvert DVDs to 1080p over HDMI>
Does it pillarbox the "old" 4:3 ratio shows, or does it stretch them to
16:9?
(I'm seriously considering getting another new DVD player, but only if
it pillarboxes the 4:3 shows automatically. The entry-model Samsung I
have doesn't...)
--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> e-mail: s/deadspam/gmail/
"I'm *not* a kid! Nyyyeaaah!" - Skuld (in "Oh My Goddess!" OAV #3)
"When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear
of childishness and the desire to be very grown-up." - C.S. Lewis
Abraham Evangelista
wrote:
>On Thu, 22 May 2008 19:13:49 -0500, Glenn Shaw <tog...@comnet.cast>
>wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 22 May 2008 19:04:31 +0000, Robotech_Master wrote:
>>
>>> Heck, DVD players that can play DivXes have been around for a while, and
>>> now you're even starting to see DVD players with USB ports that can
>>> accept movie-bearing thumb drives.
>>
>></me looks at his Philips DVP5982, which can play DivX discs, has a USB
>>port for thumb drives, and can upconvert DVDs to 1080p over HDMI>
>
>Does it pillarbox the "old" 4:3 ratio shows, or does it stretch them to
>16:9?
>
>(I'm seriously considering getting another new DVD player, but only if
>it pillarboxes the 4:3 shows automatically. The entry-model Samsung I
>have doesn't...)
Your TV doesn't have an aspect ratio button?
--
Abraham Evangelista
Abraham Evangelista
<nes...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On May 22, 3:04 pm, afedakendragon <afeda...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Try this with a theatrical live
>> action movie, and you should be able to see the difference.
>
>Local comic book guy ran Star Wars (not sure which edition)
>on an HDTV he had in the store. It looked... well I could see
>very minor pixellation, but I'm not sure if that's normal or not.
>I assume it was a regular DVD since to my knowledge SW
>isn't out in Hi-Def yet.
SO you've not really seen HD live action either then. This isn't
helping your case.
>> Firstly on behalf of gamers everwhere, DIE IN A FIRE YOU ARROGANT
>> BASTARD. WTF gives a half-blind relic the right accuse me of being
>> dim for being a gamer? :-)
>
>Well, have YOU ever retrieved the Amulet of Yendor? ;-)
Three times. And that's not counting Nethack ascensions.
>(I haven't, but still...)
Then get back to work, NOOB. :-)
>> Secondly, the new hardware does offer concrete advantages, not all of
>> which are related to graphics. Larger storage mediums make multiple
>> disc titles less likely, eliminating disc switchng and wear and tear.
>> Faster/Multiple processors give developers the opportunity to play
>> with more complex environments and AI behaviors.
>
>Suit yourself, but I'm not entirely convinced any of that is really
>all that useful or necessary.
I'm all for it. But hey, if you're happy with what you got, more
power to ya. Some of us want more, and we're perfectly willing to
upgrade to get it.
More to the point, I get more than a bit resentful when folks other
than me claim to know what I want, what I should want, and what I
should be willing to pay.
What *I* want is progress. Bigger, Better, Faster, Prettier, with a
story line to match. Fundamentally, Rogue and Diablo II are the same
random-dungeon-hack formula. Neither is a substitue for the other,
and I didn't mind upgrading my PC to go from Rogue to D2. I did it
again to get Titan's quest. (And again after that for HD fansubs and
Bioshock.)
When a game with lovely graphics fails to live up to reasonable
gameplay standards (Assassin's Creed, I'm looking at YOU) that's a
failure of the development team, not necessarily a valid condemnation
of the platform, and for damn sure not an excuse to condemn users of
the platform.
--
Abraham Evangelista
8-Bit Star
> On Thu, 22 May 2008 16:36:50 -0700 (PDT), 8-Bit Star
>
> >On May 22, 3:04 pm, afedakendragon <afeda...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Try this with a theatrical live
> >> action movie, and you should be able to see the difference.
>
> >Local comic book guy ran Star Wars (not sure which edition)
> >on an HDTV he had in the store. It looked... well I could see
> >very minor pixellation, but I'm not sure if that's normal or not.
> >I assume it was a regular DVD since to my knowledge SW
> >isn't out in Hi-Def yet.
>
> SO you've not really seen HD live action either then. This isn't
> helping your case.
Think the only true HD I've seen is XB360s and Playstation 3s
in action. I've got to admit the graphics were pretty impressive.
Doesn't matter, next time I buy a new laptop I'm going to get one
capable of HD with a built-in BR drive. I'm just not a sucker for
new technology.
> >Well, have YOU ever retrieved the Amulet of Yendor? ;-)
>
> Three times. And that's not counting Nethack ascensions.
... and here my quest was to find and activate the
armor of Vay...
Umm, okay, can you beat....
Ecco the Dolphin?
Battletoads?
Bubsy?
Hydlide?
(Big yes to myself for all four ;-))
> More to the point, I get more than a bit resentful when folks other
> than me claim to know what I want, what I should want, and what I
> should be willing to pay.
So am I, really. "Why you still playin' that old junk?
Why don't you get with the times and get a MAN'S
system like the [whatever modern console they prefer]?
So what if it costs $600? Whaddya mean you're not
interested in Halo? You backwards sleazebag!" has
already formed enough reason for me to carry a can
of mace into any place I'm likely to meet gamers.
> When a game with lovely graphics fails to live up to reasonable
> gameplay standards (Assassin's Creed, I'm looking at YOU) that's a
> failure of the development team, not necessarily a valid condemnation
> of the platform, and for damn sure not an excuse to condemn users of
> the platform.
Oh, I ain't condemning gamers because of any fault of the GAMES.
That would be completely silly and [spock voice]totally illogical[/
spock].
I'm condemning gamers because in my experience the vast majority
of gamers are ignorant (both of their own fecking hobby and of
everything else), prone to hostility, and extremely given to sheepherd
mentality.
And you honestly DO have to be pretty dim to spend $600 on a
game console that you KNOW is going to be put away four years
from now. It's a little like buying a lightbulb that is garunteed to
burn out tomorrow. It would be different if you payed that $600
while honestly believing that this console is "the last console I'll
ever buy and they'll never make a better one," but I don' think any
gamer today can do that while maintaining their grip on reality.
Derek Janssen
Some players switch formats automatically--
My old Sony player used to, before I replaced it with the PS3. Which
also does.
Derek Janssen
eja...@verizon.net
Abraham Evangelista
This was a PITA!
>Bubsy?
>Hydlide?
3 of 4. Never played Bubsy. Any good?
>(Big yes to myself for all four ;-))
>
>> More to the point, I get more than a bit resentful when folks other
>> than me claim to know what I want, what I should want, and what I
>> should be willing to pay.
>
>So am I, really. "Why you still playin' that old junk?
>Why don't you get with the times and get a MAN'S
>system like the [whatever modern console they prefer]?
>So what if it costs $600? Whaddya mean you're not
>interested in Halo? You backwards sleazebag!" has
You're right, and I'm not saying that you have to "get with the times"
either...
>already formed enough reason for me to carry a can
>of mace into any place I'm likely to meet gamers.
...but that's just paranoia. :-)
>> When a game with lovely graphics fails to live up to reasonable
>> gameplay standards (Assassin's Creed, I'm looking at YOU) that's a
>> failure of the development team, not necessarily a valid condemnation
>> of the platform, and for damn sure not an excuse to condemn users of
>> the platform.
>
>Oh, I ain't condemning gamers because of any fault of the GAMES.
>That would be completely silly and [spock voice]totally illogical[/
>spock].
>I'm condemning gamers because in my experience the vast majority
>of gamers are ignorant (both of their own fecking hobby and of
>everything else), prone to hostility, and extremely given to sheepherd
>mentality.
That's a damn broad brush you're using there. If you're not busy,
I've got a house that needs painting... :-p
>And you honestly DO have to be pretty dim to spend $600 on a
>game console that you KNOW is going to be put away four years
>from now.
And why is that? I want to play those games, and to do so I need the
right hardware.
>It's a little like buying a lightbulb that is garunteed to
>burn out tomorrow.
What? So suddenly picking somethink you know isn't going to last is a
bad decision? Are you saying that people who buy products with
expiration dates are idiots?
I don't really CARE if they're going to obsolete it 4 years from now.
(And given the PS2's run, I'm not sure you're right.) The only thing
I care about is whether the console in question does what I want,
right now.
>It would be different if you payed that $600
>while honestly believing that this console is "the last console I'll
>ever buy and they'll never make a better one," but I don' think any
>gamer today can do that while maintaining their grip on reality.
Oh, so you're saying it's only worth $600 if it's the last one I'll
ever buy? I see.
So you're saying you know better than I do what I ought to be willing
to buy with my money. I see.
I know I have some matches around here somewhere... :-)
--
Abraham Evangelista
Abraham Evangelista
Most players that let you specify your TV's aspect ratio will do
exactly what you're describing. Still, I've never been more than one
button away from fixing the aspect ratio of a title.
I was a just a little surprised is all. I thought Rob had a more
recent vintage of TV!
--
Abraham Evangelista
Rob Kelk
Would you believe I never thought to look at the TV?
(I'll check it after work...)
8-Bit Star
> On Thu, 22 May 2008 23:23:39 -0700 (PDT), 8-Bit Star
> >Umm, okay, can you beat....
>
> >Ecco the Dolphin?
> >Battletoads?
>
> This was a PITA!
*Reference is lost on me*
> >Bubsy?
> >Hydlide?
>
> 3 of 4. Never played Bubsy. Any good?
Bubsy and Hydlide are in kind of a special class--most
gamers come away thinking they're bad games, but
others play them and find something special/fun about
them. I enjoy both, but neither are among my favorites.
> >Oh, I ain't condemning gamers because of any fault of the GAMES.
> >That would be completely silly and [spock voice]totally illogical[/
> >spock].
> >I'm condemning gamers because in my experience the vast majority
> >of gamers are ignorant (both of their own fecking hobby and of
> >everything else), prone to hostility, and extremely given to sheepherd
> >mentality.
>
> That's a damn broad brush you're using there. If you're not busy,
> I've got a house that needs painting... :-p
There's a guy in Dreamland who'll do that, and HIS
paintings COME TO LIFE.
(I know if Ethan were here he'd ask dude to paint him
a catgirl).
In all seriousness... I AM describing MY personal
experience, after all. How do you describe something
like that, in a way that comes to explain how you have
a disparaging viewpoint, without resorting to a broad
generalization while at the same time keeping the
post down to a reasonable length? I ain't yet found a
way.
> >And you honestly DO have to be pretty dim to spend $600 on a
> >game console that you KNOW is going to be put away four years
> >from now.
>
> And why is that? I want to play those games, and to do so I need the
> right hardware.
>
> >It's a little like buying a lightbulb that is garunteed to
> >burn out tomorrow.
>
> What? So suddenly picking somethink you know isn't going to last is a
> bad decision? Are you saying that people who buy products with
> expiration dates are idiots?
The lightbulb analogy was bad since price and
overall use were factors in my original contention.
Simply put, I can't understand spending half a grand
up-front on gaming, with the full knowledge that its
not going to last. If I'm going to buy a $300 (or more)
piece of hardware, I damn well better be using it
twenty years from now!
In my case I'm also kind of burned out on modern
generations' so called "revolutions." The last true
revolution in gaming was when the 3D world was
invented, and that was only so because it allowed
for new genres.
But it did little to improve existing ones. That's the
thing really. A lot of promised breakthroughs don't
really seem that, well, promising. Most of them
turn out to be cool novelties but with limited practical
use. The existence of the 3D world was awesome
for games like Zelda and Mario but it did little to
improve your standard RPG or Strategy game--heck
most of them play fundamentally no different from
their 2D counterparts.
Now game developers are talking about hyper
Artificial Intelligence which responds "just like a
human would," and interactive worlds that fully
simulate an actual, evolving world. Now maybe I'm
missing something but how are EITHER of those a
good thing? How would Ecco the Dolphin be any
better if the player had to deal with the evolution of
the ecosystem as well as getting past the speed-
sensitive octopus? (Perhaps the new solution would
be to wait until Octy's natural predator comes along
and eats him?) How would Final Fantasy VII be any
better if those random enemies you fight every five seconds
behaved just like human beings (who would probably
suicide their characters when they realize they can't
win)? Or for that matter how would it be any better if
the plot could evolve randomly due to player and AI
decisions and not ever play out the same way twice
(which is yet another "promising" development
everyone likes to romanticize about)? No matter how
I look at it I can only think that would be *worse.*
... Oops, I allowed the post length to get out of
control, probably went and totally derailed this
topic while I was at it... Okay, I'm gonna stop
there for the time being, before I rant myself
out of existence.
*Takes Abe's matches and lights a pipe*
afedakendragon
Well, you could just NOT PAINT with that brush perhaps?
Look, if you've had bad experiences with certain gamers, they're
certainly vaild experiences. But they're not the sum-total of the
class, and you shouldn't be surprised when folks who don't want to be
portrayed as such come back swinging.
To put it another way, the vast majority of what (admittedly little)
time I've spend with Xbox Live would leads me to believe that the vast
majority of their users are purile little twelve-year-olds whose sole
vocabulary consists of racial epiths and a seemingly endless
repertoire of adjectives for male sexual reproductive organs. It sure
SEEMS that way, but I'm not gonna disparage the entire class or
service based on my personal experience.
I will however refuse to go back. Vote with your dollars. Nobody's
forcing you to go grab a current gen system. But your decision not to
isn't a license to disparage mine.
> > >And you honestly DO have to be pretty dim to spend $600 on a
> > >game console that you KNOW is going to be put away four years
> > >from now.
>
> > And why is that? I want to play those games, and to do so I need the
> > right hardware.
>
> > >It's a little like buying a lightbulb that is garunteed to
> > >burn out tomorrow.
>
> > What? So suddenly picking somethink you know isn't going to last is a
> > bad decision? Are you saying that people who buy products with
> > expiration dates are idiots?
>
> The lightbulb analogy was bad since price and
> overall use were factors in my original contention.
>
> Simply put, I can't understand spending half a grand
> up-front on gaming, with the full knowledge that its
> not going to last. If I'm going to buy a $300 (or more)
> piece of hardware, I damn well better be using it
> twenty years from now!
I've spent that on items that have a useable life of less than a
year. Hell, I've spent that much on single evenings of
entertainment. In comparison, my PS3 has been amazing when measured
in terms of dollars per hour of entertainment, and it only gets
better. :-)
> In my case I'm also kind of burned out on modern
> generations' so called "revolutions." The last true
> revolution in gaming was when the 3D world was
> invented, and that was only so because it allowed
> for new genres.
So everything that doesn't directly contribute to new types of gaming
is a waste?
> But it did little to improve existing ones. That's the
> thing really. A lot of promised breakthroughs don't
> really seem that, well, promising. Most of them
> turn out to be cool novelties but with limited practical
> use. The existence of the 3D world was awesome
> for games like Zelda and Mario but it did little to
> improve your standard RPG or Strategy game--heck
> most of them play fundamentally no different from
> their 2D counterparts.
They don't play differently. They do however play more prettily,
smoothly, and in many cases with more players, opponents and options.
CRPGs haven't changed much since the early 90's. That doesn't mean
that the new ones are any less deserving than the old ones. If every
product had to be completely new and distinct from it's predecessors,
we'd have run out of anime ages ago. And BOOKS.
> Now game developers are talking about hyper
> Artificial Intelligence which responds "just like a
> human would," and interactive worlds that fully
> simulate an actual, evolving world. Now maybe I'm
> missing something but how are EITHER of those a
> good thing?
Games that play differently. An experience that's tailor made to the
player.
Or hell, how about a game that can be played that doesn't resolve down
to basic pattern recognition?
Bigger challenges? Additonal replay value?
> How would Ecco the Dolphin be any
> better if the player had to deal with the evolution of
> the ecosystem as well as getting past the speed-
> sensitive octopus? (Perhaps the new solution would
> be to wait until Octy's natural predator comes along
> and eats him?)
Perhaps Octy doesn't respond the same way every time. Maybe he's
smart enough to bring friends. If we make him REALLY smart he
modifies the environment to his advantage. Ya know, bring down the
coral shelf right on Ecco's head, or the like.
Your failure of imagination and potential for more power doesn't mean
that there aren't possibilities. :-)
> How would Final Fantasy VII be any
> better if those random enemies you fight every five seconds
> behaved just like human beings (who would probably
> suicide their characters when they realize they can't
> win)?
Different genre of game. Enhanced AI wouldn't be on the top of my
list for RPG opponents which are mostly simple scripted responses
anyway. The complexity of an RPG opponent is almost always limited by
it's simplistic decision tree. That tree can get much larger when
you've got that much more power to work with. How about adaptive AIs
that learn to start hitting you with silence ailments when you go with
a caster heavy party? Or heaven forbid a properly planned, timed, and
executed ambush?
>Or for that matter how would it be any better if
> the plot could evolve randomly due to player and AI
> decisions and not ever play out the same way twice
Yeah, ya know, like other in-the-flesh games with human players and
human unpredictabilities? I'd be happy if the AI could give me half
the challenge and unpredictability of a proper human opponent.
> (which is yet another "promising" development
> everyone likes to romanticize about)? No matter how
> I look at it I can only think that would be *worse.*
And I'm failing to see how a customized experience could be a
necessarily bad thing.
Not every game has to be as tightly scripted and rigidly confined to a
single plot as your typical JRPG.
And that's all on TOP of the graphics, which should be improving as
well. There's a reason that certain (rabid?) fans are clamoring for
an FF7 remake, and I'm fairly certain it's got nothing to do with
gameplay and everything to do with graphics.
I may be mis-interpreting your statements, but It seems like you're
associating the hardware with the lack of innovation and failures that
should be attributed to the software designers. When a bad game gets
made, it's a bad game. No amount of hardware can fix that. The
opposite however is just as true. There are some things you CANNOT do
without sufficient metal behind your code.
All things being equal, If I have to choose between having the
bottleneck be the hardware, or the developers, I'll pick the
developers every time. Hardware should be able to do everything you
envision, else wise it's simply limiting your potential.
> ... Oops, I allowed the post length to get out of
> control, probably went and totally derailed this
> topic while I was at it... Okay, I'm gonna stop
> there for the time being, before I rant myself
> out of existence.
>
> *Takes Abe's matches and lights a pipe*
Smoker. **points and yells** PARAIAH! :-)
8-Bit Star
> I will however refuse to go back. Vote with your dollars. Nobody's
> forcing you to go grab a current gen system. But your decision not to
> isn't a license to disparage mine.
Point taken. All right, I'll try to can the generalizations
in the future.
> So everything that doesn't directly contribute to new types of gaming
> is a waste?
IMO, yes. What's the point of buying a new console if
the experience isn't that much different?
> They don't play differently. They do however play more prettily,
> smoothly, and in many cases with more players, opponents and options.
Entirely too subjective, gets into all sorts of areas (such
as whether well-done 3D is necessarily prettier than
well-done 2D) that I don't really feel like debating.
> CRPGs haven't changed much since the early 90's. That doesn't mean
> that the new ones are any less deserving than the old ones. If every
> product had to be completely new and distinct from it's predecessors,
> we'd have run out of anime ages ago. And BOOKS.
Now, see, the thing is...
The main appeal of a book, or an anime, or any sort of
story really, isn't in the generals. Its in the specifics.
Its in the characters and the world. You read a book
not for the straightforward intellectual curiosity of seeing
how the plot turns out, but just so you can get lost in
the world for awhile and get to know these fine people.
What's important isn't that a bunch of people are on a
quest to destroy a ring, what matters is this is
Middle-earth, that's Frodo Baggins and Aragorn, and
wow this place is awesome I wonder if they'll sell me
a plot of land. Its kind of similar, really, to what I was
saying in the debate I had with Blade awhile back about
what exactly makes characters "useful." You can reduce
those things to the nearest available archtype and
say that makes them replaceable, but... well, I've
tried that and IMO the results are rather like the
New Coke situation. You can't replace an original.
[That's "original" as in "it has a unique identity" not
as in "the first of its kind"]
Now, this CAN be true for games. Chrono Trigger plays
like a rather generic RPG, but its the only rather generic
RPG that has Chrono, Marle, Lucca, the Epoch, the Black
Omen, the grave you have to dump beer on, an
extraterrestrial porcupine, and Nu. Its identity transcends
its rather simplistic game trappings (though the whole
"battles take place on the game map rather than cutting
to a scene" thing helps too).
But therein lies the rub:
For one thing, games like CT are the exception, not the
rule. For the most part, what sets games apart is whether
the actual game is enough of a new experience. First-Person
Shooters for example. Its no wonder people got burned
out back in the Doom-Heretic-Hexen-Duke3D days. Same
thing happened with the Quake2-Unreal-Half-Life generation.
Different stories, different worlds, but the actual games feel
similar enough that I could very well imagine them taking
place right across the street from each other. But a
schizm exists between the DHHD3D FPSes and the
Q2UH-L ones because the latter actually DOES play
different from the former in many signicant ways.
For the other thing, as I said a game can stand out
due to its universe as opposed to its gameplay, but...
you don't need better hardware for that. Games like
Chrono, FF6, Earthbound, Lufia II, Shadowrun etc.
managed to stake their own identities despite being
made on the EXACT SAME HARDWARE as hundreds
of cookie-cutter games in the same genre. You could
even argue that you don't need hardware AT ALL,
given the example of books and Pen-n-paper
role-playing, many of which manage to convey
unique realities that don't at all come off as cookie-
cutter.
Ergo, the only way new hardware is an advantage is
if it does, matter-of-factly, allow developers to construct
entirely new gaming experiences. IMO, the rise of 3D,
polygon-based graphics has made formerly dissimilar worlds
seem more cookie-cutter, so its more urgent than ever
that the actual game experience be different.
> Games that play differently. An experience that's tailor made to the
> player.
A romantic notion. A game where the experience
is "tailor made to the player" would be a point-of-fact
perfect game. It would probably be the last game
ever made. No corperation would allow that to happen.
Also, why would you want that? A game that's tailor-
made to you is a shallow experience much the same
way that a significant other who devotes themself
utterly to your every whim with no regard for themselves
is a shallow person--it sounds pleasant at first but
you quickly get sick of it.
> Or hell, how about a game that can be played that doesn't resolve down
> to basic pattern recognition?
Is that possible? Even if the AI behaved like a human, humans
have patterns too.
> Bigger challenges? Additonal replay value?
Challenges I'll have to get back to you on, but about
replay value...
"Replay value" is one of those words that's had all
sorts of (IMO) nonsensical concepts attached to it.
First of all, a customized experience doesn't necessarily
ensure you'll keep coming back. Every FPS on the
market allows players to make levels perfectly suited
to their tastes, and yet people still get bored of them.
Secondly, IMO games are replayable just the way
they are, the same way you can re-read a book or
re-watch a movie or re-listen to a song: Either A)
the experience is good enough that you want more
of it, or B) its been awhile and you've forgotten it.
Oh sure you might remember what happens at
the end and all the "high points," but there's always
going to be parts and details that just slipped your
mind. It's like the difference between remembering
being in a swimming pool and actually being IN
a swimming pool.
> Perhaps Octy doesn't respond the same way every time. Maybe he's
> smart enough to bring friends. If we make him REALLY smart he
> modifies the environment to his advantage. Ya know, bring down the
> coral shelf right on Ecco's head, or the like.
>
> Your failure of imagination and potential for more power doesn't mean
> that there aren't possibilities. :-)
In all honesty, that version of Octy sounds totally awesome.
I'd love to face that challenge.
But there's still a problem--that such an evolutionary AI
creates the possibility that the game could very well
become unwinnable. In fact, weren't there already
adventure games in the mid-1990s where items and
clues would change locations, and the game could
actually become unwinnable if you didn't get an item
or talk to a certain person when the time was right?
I understand that didn't sit well with many players.
To circumvent this, the programmers would have to
program in a balance of some sort--like if Octy brings
down the reef, it opens a passage elsewhere that negates
the whole need to get past Octy. But this "balancing"
could make the game way too easy. Traditionally the
more challenging video games are so because they put
players in a situation that they are JUST equipped to
handle, or in some cases barely equipped to handle and
have to make do. Any time the developer worries about
"balance," what usually happens is he neuters the
bad guys and makes the hero almost too powerful.
> Different genre of game. Enhanced AI wouldn't be on the top of my
> list for RPG opponents which are mostly simple scripted responses
> anyway. The complexity of an RPG opponent is almost always limited by
> it's simplistic decision tree. That tree can get much larger when
> you've got that much more power to work with. How about adaptive AIs
> that learn to start hitting you with silence ailments when you go with
> a caster heavy party? Or heaven forbid a properly planned, timed, and
> executed ambush?
Or heck, how about an AI that lures you with weak enemies
then tricks you into fighting Ruby Weapon? ;-)
> >Or for that matter how would it be any better if
> > the plot could evolve randomly due to player and AI
> > decisions and not ever play out the same way twice
>
> Yeah, ya know, like other in-the-flesh games with human players and
> human unpredictabilities? I'd be happy if the AI could give me half
> the challenge and unpredictability of a proper human opponent.
How about an AI that gets into violent rules arguements
with you and refuses to talk to you for about a week? ;-)
> > (which is yet another "promising" development
> > everyone likes to romanticize about)? No matter how
> > I look at it I can only think that would be *worse.*
>
> And I'm failing to see how a customized experience could be a
> necessarily bad thing.
This goes back to the example of the custom girlfriend
I mentioned earlier.
The thing is, a universe isn't really satisfying unless it
offers things you don't want (or don't know you want) in
addition to things you DO want. A custom-tailored experience
will not do that, or will make it available without forcing
you to go there. A structured narrative, while not always
the best solution[*] is one sure way that the player will
visit near everywhere and get the most out of your world.
[*] Sometimes I prefer the American CRPG way of just giving
you a quest, a few vague clues, and then leaving you up to your
own devices.
> I may be mis-interpreting your statements, but It seems like you're
> associating the hardware with the lack of innovation and failures that
> should be attributed to the software designers.
Not as such. What I'm saying is that there's no real reason
for new hardware outside of business considerations. Companies
release new consoles because they want to milk more money out
of fans. Any actual advantages to the game are secondary, and
when you get right down to it most of the games made today
could've been done on the Super Nintendo, or even the regular
Nintendo [Fact: A programmer in Hong Kong actually did a 90%
faithful port of Final Fantasy VII to the NES]. Programmers and
game designers justify this tradition by pretending the next
level of hardware is going to allow for all these fantastic games
that are like nothing you've played before, but most of that is
just romantic fantasy that in practical application has little
real use--at most, you would probably get one or two games that
make use of oft-hyped futuretech, and then everything else would
be, well, the usual.
What gaming needs to do is stop, and make one consistent, universal
platform that anyone could develop a game for. It's current
trend is too much like the U.S. comics industry, and we all know
how comics fared financially (hint: were pretty big for awhile,
then hit several stumbling blocks--most of them perpetuated by
the industry's own freaking business model--and now they're the
least profitable form of entertainment around).
I agree with your general assertion that the hardware should be
capable of near everything you want to do, but IMO today's hardware
IS capable of pretty much any kind of game I'd love to see made,
and has been for some time. There is no reason to go any further.
The bottleneck IS the developers, who simply don't have the time,
resources, or drive to make these epic games they're always
talking about. The only thing really left to improve is graphics,
and even those are about to hit a wall.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
*Hands Abe a different pipe* wanna join me?
Jim diGriz
> On Fri, 23 May 2008 04:07:21 GMT, Abraham Evangelista
>>Your TV doesn't have an aspect ratio button?
> Would you believe I never thought to look at the TV?
> (I'll check it after work...)
I only recently realized why the aspect ratio button on my TV didn't
work - the DVD player was set to output progressive scan. Once I
switched it to interlaced, the aspect ratio button worked! Stupid
Samsung TV!
JdG
Paul Pietromonaco
news:4831c834$0$87076$815e...@news.qwest.net...
>
> I have the U.S. Version of this release. There are English subtitles for
> sure - not sure about English language track. Amazon indicates there is
> an English language track, but I'll check my copy when I get home and post
> a follow-up.
>
(Not sure if anyone's still curious, but...)
The U.S. Blu-ray version of this release - BUXH0124 - has Japanese Dolby
True HD 5.1, Japanese Linear PCM Dolby Surround and English Dolby Digital
Dolby Surround. There are also Japanese & English subtitles present.
The Blu-ray region code is not listed on the box or on the disc.
Cheers,
Paul