4Kids is effectively dead... and does it take Funimation with it???
Starcade
have equated the "excessive pricing, excessive licenses" pro-piracy
stands I've heard against the anime industry with declaring the anime
industry fraudulent...
... that someone simply hasn't said: "Yes, the anime industry is a
fraud, and you are a dupe for following it!"
Well, you might actually have some ammunition if I read this article
correctly:
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-03-29/tv-tokyo-nihon-ad-terminate-yu-gi-oh-deal-sue-4kids
4Kids has now officially lost it's Yu-Gi-Oh license -- AND has been
sued for nearly $5,000,000 in back payments and obligations that TV
Tokyo and Nihon Ad Systems believes 4Kids has officially defrauded
them of at least that sum.
This effectively kills 4Kids, to the great pleasure of many American
anime fans who've put 4Kids on the Death Watch for quite some time.
But the bombshell comes in the following form, quoted from the
article:
"According to the documents filed by the plaintiffs, the companies
conducted an audit on 4Kids' Yu-Gi-Oh! business per their licensing
agreement. This audit allegedly uncovered the aforementioned
underpayments, as well as a "secret" agreement with Funimation,
allowing them to "exploit" the Yu-Gi-Oh! franchise via home video and
hide the added income from the plaintiffs. By hiding this income, TV
Tokyo and Nihon Ad Systems allege that 4Kids was able to pay them a
smaller share than would otherwise have been owed to them. The
complaint further alleges that 4Kids attempted to hide the secret deal
rather than disclosing it as required by their licensing agreement."
So what the audit charges, if I read this right, is that Funimation
back-doored their way into a sweetheart deal with 4Kids, allowing them
to release the franchise in home video and hide that income from the
two Japanese companies...
If that's the case, SHUT FUNIMATION DOWN -- now.
And there can really only be three reasons why they didn't add
Funimation to this lawsuit (which, in not doing, makes me wonder if
the case has any merit at all against 4Kids...):
1) The case has no merit.
2) The effort may have some merit, but effectively is being done to
squeeze out 4Kids and force Funimation to pay a much higher price for
the license once it gets full licensure.
and/or
3) Funimation is so broke, it's effectively lawsuit-proof.
But there is one very sad fact, as things currently stand between this
action and the dropping of the One Piece lawsuit:
Even if there were anime that I would knock down the doors to
purchase, the very concept of purchasing anime _at any price_ is so
crazy that it cannot be feasibly done.
One must now wonder if the entire anime industry (and this is NOT
limited to the US) is legal fraud...
Mike
Relic
Well, I read that article, and Funimation is not even named as a
target in the lawsuit.
Seriously Gabe, move the needle over; it's been stuck in the groove
for waaaay too long.
Starcade
> Well, I read that article, and Funimation is not even named as a
> target in the lawsuit.
You read the article, but you didn't read my post (no surprise).
I not only said that I didn't believe why they didn't (if the secret
deal was fraudulent, both parties participating in the deal
participated in the fraud!), but gave you three reasons why Funimation
might not be named.
> Seriously Gabe, move the needle over; it's been stuck in the groove
> for waaaay too long.
It's been stuck in that groove because of the fact that we either have
a massive piracy problem or a massive fraud problem.
Which one is it?
Mike
selaboc
> Well, I read that article, and Funimation is not even named as a
> target in the lawsuit.
Indeed. And other than the plantiffs emotive description of the deal
as "secret" there's no indication that Funimation did anything
"wrong" (Hence their not being named as a target in the lawsuit).
4Kids license agreement with the Japanese companies allowed them to
make licensing deals with other companies (like Funimation and
Majesco) provided 4kids gave the Japanese compaies their share.
However 4Kids tried to use "hollywood accounting" and got caught out.
Rather than report it as income for which ther'd have to give % back
to Japan, they were reporting it as a "service fee". The "secret" part
of the "secret deal" was the fact that the money they were getting
from Funimation and Majesco wasn't being reported to the Japanese
companies thanks to their hollywood style account tricks.
Starcade
> Indeed. And other than the plantiffs emotive description of the deal
> as "secret" there's no indication that Funimation did anything
> "wrong" (Hence their not being named as a target in the lawsuit).
You see, there's the problem. (And why I have question as to the
case's entire merit...)
There's been much discussion as to how much damage this might do to
Funimation with respect to the Japanese creators.
It sounds like a lot of this damage (in one direction or the other)
has already been done with TV Tokyo and this ad company.
To come out and proclaim a "secret deal" indicates that significant
damage has been done to the relationship with Funimation, if only
through their participation (and they did participate, even if through
only their execution of a legal deal with 4Kids) in this purported
fraud.
Otherwise, why make the deal at all without the Japanese knowing (and
wouldn't there be some degree of contract law (which Funimation should
know about from their own licenses) which would've required Funimation
to tell the Japanese companies _even if 4Kids did not_?)?
> 4Kids license agreement with the Japanese companies allowed them to
> make licensing deals with other companies (like Funimation and
> Majesco) provided 4kids gave the Japanese compaies their share.
That's different from an outright "secret deal", and it takes two to
tango.
> However 4Kids tried to use "hollywood accounting" and got caught out.
The American Way. I've wondered (and stated here) for some time how
much funny accounting is going on in the business to keep it going. I
refer back to my initial comment to this thread, plus the statement in
which we either have a massive piracy problem or a massive fraud
problem. We have one or the other -- and, at this point, this only
reinforces that there is enough question that I can no longer purchase
(and, hence, consume outside my present collection) anime.
> Rather than report it as income for which ther'd have to give % back
> to Japan, they were reporting it as a "service fee". The "secret" part
> of the "secret deal" was the fact that the money they were getting
> from Funimation and Majesco wasn't being reported to the Japanese
> companies thanks to their hollywood style account tricks.
If it were simply that, then Funimation could come back and claim a
degree of defamation on the part of the Japanese companies -- it
seriously appears that the implication is that Funimation is a co-
participant, if "unindicted"...
Mike
Invid Fan
<8185905d-6617-466b...@a21g2000prj.googlegroups.com>,
selaboc <c64...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 4Kids license agreement with the Japanese companies allowed them to
> make licensing deals with other companies (like Funimation and
> Majesco) provided 4kids gave the Japanese compaies their share.
At least they actually had that right. Few here probably remember the
whole Lensman fiasco: The E.E. Smith Estate licensed the movie rights
for his Lensman books to a Japanese studio, which then struck a deal
with a US publisher to do a comic book based on the anime. The comic
was actually better then the film, if memory serves, but once the
family found out the Lens hit the fan :)
--
Chris Mack "If we show any weakness, the monsters will get cocky!"
'Invid Fan' - 'Yokai Monsters Along With Ghosts'
Antonio E. Gonzalez
wrote:
Guy's not known for sticking to the reality thing. Remember past
predictions:
- Funimation was about to be sold by Navarre, they're even going to
announce it at AX 2010!
The Reality: The only thing Funimation announced at AX2010 was more
anime, notably Eden of the East, and the Trigun movie. They even
simulcast the last episode of FMA Brotherhood on Sunday to a panel
room! As for the sale, it seems Navarre has reconsidered selling one
of its most profitable divisions, for some reason.
- Moving AX to LA Live would result in countless assaults on con-goers
by the "crime element" of downtown LA.
The Reality: Three years, no incidents (beyond roughhousing at the
convention itself). LA Live proved (and continues to prove) to be the
great entertainment venue it was touted as. Heck, the only convention
incident in that time was the infamous Hall H stabbing at Comic-Con
2010, itself overblown.
--
- ReFlex76
Starcade
> On Wed, 30 Mar 2011 00:58:26 -0400, Relic <relic1...@ameritech.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> >On 3/29/2011 10:52 PM, Starcade wrote:
> >> You know, I'm shocked someone in this group, in all the time that I
> >> have equated the "excessive pricing, excessive licenses" pro-piracy
> >> stands I've heard against the anime industry with declaring the anime
> >> industry fraudulent...
>
> >> ... that someone simply hasn't said: "Yes, the anime industry is a
> >> fraud, and you are a dupe for following it!"
>
> >> Well, you might actually have some ammunition if I read this article
> >> correctly:
>
For ONE reason: IT HAS NO BUYER.
If it had had a buyer -- let me rephrase that...
If legal content were not an absolute financial and economic zero
today, Navarre either doesn't sell Funimation or already has.
That they have not indicates they have no buyer (at least not at
anywhere near the value Navarre believes Funimation is worth).
But, especially if this 4Kids lawsuit gets legs, it could explain a
lot as to why Funimation (and the other companies) are still around.
(Oh, by the by, wouldn't Funimation have had to report this deal with
4Kids to the SEC???)
> - Moving AX to LA Live would result in countless assaults on con-goers
> by the "crime element" of downtown LA.
That stuns me. As _STUPID_ (and I say this with no lack of convention
experience) as a lot of con-goers are, and as slummy as about 15 feet
to the Chick Hearn Station side of LA Live and the Con Center is, the
decision to move AX there was a monumental stupidity on the part of
the incompetent SPJA.
That they haven't had some poor cosplayer take a wrong turn and get
gang-raped is beyond any semblance of my recognition.
> The Reality: Three years, no incidents (beyond roughhousing at the
> convention itself). LA Live proved (and continues to prove) to be the
> great entertainment venue it was touted as. Heck, the only convention
> incident in that time was the infamous Hall H stabbing at Comic-Con
> 2010, itself overblown.
A stopped clock is right twice a day. They seem willing to continue
to tempt fate.
Every time I go through LA and see the Convention Center and the
slimefest just to the south, I shake my head.
Mike