Is the Lain tv series good?
MS#1Fanboy-JoJo
from a dead person. Just wondering if anybody has seen it and if its worth
getting. Is it a ghost story or what?
Chika
You mean Serial Experiments Lain?
I think it's good, but it is a bit of a mindf*ck so if you are easily
confused or your attention is apt to wander, don't bother.
As for what it is, it's a techno-thriller of sorts. Yes, there are folk
dying in it (there's a rather gory scene about half way through) and yes,
there are "ghosts", although they are probably better referred to in the
same way as the "ghosts" in GitS, for want of a better term. The twist
comes when you realise how the central character, Lain, fits into all
this. To say more than that would be a spoiler, but if you found Key the
Metal Idol or Patlabor hard going, then Lain will be a real struggle.
--
//\ // Chika <zvl...@penfuarg.bet.hx. - ROT13>
// \// The second ZFC coming <crashnet.org.uk/zedeffcee>
... Star Wars: vehicle to Carrie Fisher, Hamil and Ford to fame.
Derek Janssen
(Hoooo-boy...Who wants to tell him?)
No, more like "Japanese attempt to understand William Gibson
Internet-futurism", done at an artsy "like later Mamoru Oshii on
painkillers" pace of speed and coherence.
...Concentrate on the "e-mail" part, and you get a better idea of where
it's headed.
Derek Janssen
dja...@rcn.com
Scott Dubin
> I was reading about it and it sounds pretty cool with the girl getting email
> from a dead person. Just wondering if anybody has seen it and if its worth
> getting. Is it a ghost story or what?
Its bascially an art anime. Not a ghost story, but a paranoia
schizophrenic sort of story. It's very good, based on, and based
on, among other things, Carl Jung's idea of the collective unconscous.
It's an anime that a lot of people don't get, but it really does make
sense.
Shez
It's an anime that makes you think.
--
______________________________________________________
We have met the enemy, and he is us.
-- Walt Kelly
______________________________________________________
Anime at the Last Stop Cafe: http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk/anime
Reply-to address for email: mailreply AT xerez.demon.co.uk
Derek Janssen
>> I was reading about it and it sounds pretty cool with the girl getting email
>
>>from a dead person. Just wondering if anybody has seen it and if its worth
>
>>getting. Is it a ghost story or what?
>
>
> It's an anime that makes you think.
Things like, "Dear gods, why am I watching this instead of 'Excel Saga'?"
Derek Janssen
dja...@rcn.com
ru.ig...@usask.ca
Funny (as in "odd"), what I felt when watching "Excel Saga" was,
"Dear gods of anime, why am I watching this instead of 'Lain'?"
I couldn't take more than a few eps of Excel, but got through Lain.
:p
So to the original poster, if you like Excel, I suspect you won't
like Lain. If you didn't like Excel, there is a chance you will
like Lain.
:)
ru
--
Maintainer of the REC.ARTS.ANIME.MUSIC FAQs
http://www.geocities.com/ruigarashi/FAQS/raa_music/
and the Annual rec.arts.anime.* "What are we like?" survey
http://www.geocities.com/ruigarashi/Surveys/fans/
Kurt Bernhard Pruenner
> So to the original poster, if you like Excel, I suspect you won't
> like Lain. If you didn't like Excel, there is a chance you will
> like Lain.
So what does that make me, then? I like 'em both... o_O;;
--
Kurt Bernhard Pruenner --- Haendelstrasse 17 --- 4020 Linz --- Austria
.......It might be written "Mindfuck", but it's spelt "L-A-I-N".......
np: Styrofoam - Altogether (Blue Skied An' Clear comp.)
Chibi-Light
<9sjs...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>ru.ig...@usask.ca wrote:
>> So to the original poster, if you like Excel, I suspect you won't
>> like Lain. If you didn't like Excel, there is a chance you will
>> like Lain.
>
>So what does that make me, then? I like 'em both... o_O;;
A nutter. *nod*
CL
--
"Those that threaten us and kill innocents around the
world do not need to be treated more sensitively,
they need to be destroyed" - Vice President Cheney
Kurt Bernhard Pruenner
> Kurt Bernhard Pruenner wrote:
> > ru.ig...@usask.ca wrote:
> > > So to the original poster, if you like Excel, I suspect you won't
> > > like Lain. If you didn't like Excel, there is a chance you will
> > > like Lain.
> >
> > So what does that make me, then? I like 'em both... o_O;;
>
> A nutter. *nod*
Wheeeee!!!1!one *tilt*
--
Kurt Bernhard Pruenner --- Haendelstrasse 17 --- 4020 Linz --- Austria
.......It might be written "Mindfuck", but it's spelt "L-A-I-N".......
np: Radiohead - Paranoid Android (OK Computer)
Rob Kelk
<9sjs...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>ru.ig...@usask.ca wrote:
>> So to the original poster, if you like Excel, I suspect you won't
>> like Lain. If you didn't like Excel, there is a chance you will
>> like Lain.
>
>So what does that make me, then? I like 'em both... o_O;;
Crazy enough to maintain an anime-related FAQ, if I'm any indication...
--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> robkelk -at- jksrv -dot- com
"I'm *not* a kid! Nyyyeaaah!" - Skuld (in "Oh My Goddess!" OAV #3)
"When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of
childishness and the desire to be very grown-up." - C.S. Lewis, 1947
Derek Janssen
> On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 22:30:36 +0200, Kurt Bernhard Pruenner
> <9sjs...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>ru.ig...@usask.ca wrote:
>>
>>>So to the original poster, if you like Excel, I suspect you won't
>>>like Lain. If you didn't like Excel, there is a chance you will
>>>like Lain.
>>
>>So what does that make me, then? I like 'em both... o_O;;
A person *with* a sense of humor, and a complete and overbearingly
pretentious lack of one.
> A nutter. *nod*
<thinks>
...Yyyyyyy-yeah. Pretty much. :)
Derek Janssen
dja...@rcn.com
Blade
> Derek Janssen <dja...@rcn.com> wrote:
>>Shez wrote:
>
>>>> I was reading about it and it sounds pretty cool with the girl
>>>> getting email
>>>
>>>>from a dead person. Just wondering if anybody has seen it and if its
>>>>worth
>>>
>>>>getting. Is it a ghost story or what?
>>>
>>>
>>> It's an anime that makes you think.
>
>>Things like, "Dear gods, why am I watching this instead of 'Excel
>>Saga'?"
>
> Funny (as in "odd"), what I felt when watching "Excel Saga" was,
> "Dear gods of anime, why am I watching this instead of 'Lain'?"
> I couldn't take more than a few eps of Excel, but got through Lain.
>
>:p
>
> So to the original poster, if you like Excel, I suspect you won't
> like Lain. If you didn't like Excel, there is a chance you will
> like Lain.
>
>:)
I doubt that. Myself, my girlfriend, and several people I know like
both.
Liking something that requires thought does not in any way preclude
liking something that's a very funny send-up of anime.
Blade
--
Also Known As: Chris McNeil, The Annoying Jerk, The Enemy of Democracy,
The Bearer Of The Long .Sig, "That Guy That Can't Write A Lunch Menu
Without Pantyhose Tarou Being In It Somewhere"
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com
- More comedy per random image gallery page than the market leaders!
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/kaliashrine.htm
- Kalia rules. Oh yes, it's true. It's damn true.
"Shawn Michaels - holding up gay strippers for their wardrobes since
1988." - from the OO boards, slightly paraphrased, but oh so true.
Bill Martin
<rob...@deadspam.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 22:30:36 +0200, Kurt Bernhard Pruenner
> <9sjs...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>
> >ru.ig...@usask.ca wrote:
> >> So to the original poster, if you like Excel, I suspect you won't
> >> like Lain. If you didn't like Excel, there is a chance you will
> >> like Lain.
> >
> >So what does that make me, then? I like 'em both... o_O;;
>
> Crazy enough to maintain an anime-related FAQ, if I'm any indication...
Nah, I'm not crazy enough to maintain a faq, and I also liked both of
them. Besides, I thought it was hilarious when Lain was used as a
stand-in during the Excel Pop-Up AMV.
--
Am I a butterfly dreaming I'm a man, or am I a bowling ball dreaming I'm a
plate of sashimi. Never assume what you see and feel is real. - Doreen.
(Chrono Trigger)
Ken Arromdee
Justin <nos...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>>> It's an anime that makes you think.
>> Things like, "Dear gods, why am I watching this instead of 'Excel Saga'?"
It's trivial to write an anime that makes you think by not explaining things
and getting fans to come up with dozens of "obviously correct" explanations
for what is really going on. It's not too hard to scrupulously avoid
action-adventure or other low culture elements (except to deconstruct them),
thus ensuring that everyone treats your series as one with great literary
merit. (If you do it right, you can even pass off your budget-saving still
shots and repeated segments as literary.)
Lain has a lot in common with the second half of Evangelion in this respect.
--
Ken Arromdee / arromdee_AT_rahul.net / http://www.rahul.net/arromdee
"They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright
brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown." --Carl Sagan
Invid Fan
Dubin <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Even some of us who "get" it think it's more style then story. Often
while watching it, the endless debate over whether the still shots of
power lines are a commentary on modern society or just a way to not
animate anything for a couple minutes starts up again :)
--
Chris Mack "Refugee, total shit. That's how I've always seen us.
'Invid Fan' Not a help, you'll admit, to agreement between us."
-'Deal/No Deal', CHESS
Richard V. Lamb
news:412A53EC...@njuuus.desdemona.ssw.uni-linz.ac.at...
> ru.ig...@usask.ca wrote:
> > So to the original poster, if you like Excel, I suspect you won't
> > like Lain. If you didn't like Excel, there is a chance you will
> > like Lain.
>
> So what does that make me, then? I like 'em both... o_O;;
Someone who probably enjoyed ChuChu in Revolutionary Girl Utena TV for the
humor and The Adolescence of Utena movie for the weirdness.
BTW, any posts on raam that you've nominated lately for
alt.humor.best-of-usenet that we should look for when the moderator passes
judgement on them?
Vince "Professor Plum" Lamb
"Washuu has crabs!"
Kurt Bernhard Pruenner
> Someone who probably enjoyed ChuChu in Revolutionary Girl Utena TV for
> the humor and The Adolescence of Utena movie for the weirdness.
Not really - never considered even looking at anything Utena, sounds too
much of some lame romantic story thing to me.
> BTW, any posts on raam that you've nominated lately for
> alt.humor.best-of-usenet that we should look for when the moderator
> passes judgement on them?
Well, there's that one about household robot rights I've sent them
yesterday, but that's the only one for the last few days...
--
Kurt Bernhard Pruenner --- Haendelstrasse 17 --- 4020 Linz --- Austria
.......It might be written "Mindfuck", but it's spelt "L-A-I-N".......
np: The Modernist - Mk Spitz (Kangmei)
Kurt Bernhard Pruenner
> Richard V. Lamb wrote:
> > BTW, any posts on raam that you've nominated lately for
> > alt.humor.best-of-usenet that we should look for when the moderator
> > passes judgement on them?
>
> Well, there's that one about household robot rights I've sent them
> yesterday, but that's the only one for the last few days...
Whoops - that one is from rec.arts.manga, actually...
--
Kurt Bernhard Pruenner --- Haendelstrasse 17 --- 4020 Linz --- Austria
.......It might be written "Mindfuck", but it's spelt "L-A-I-N".......
np: Ricardo Villalobos - I Try To Live (Can I Live) (Alcachofa)
Chika
Kurt Bernhard Pruenner <9sjs...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
> "Richard V. Lamb" wrote:
> > Someone who probably enjoyed ChuChu in Revolutionary Girl Utena TV for
> > the humor and The Adolescence of Utena movie for the weirdness.
> Not really - never considered even looking at anything Utena, sounds too
> much of some lame romantic story thing to me.
I love you! Let's fight! (cue stair ascending music and obscure battle
music)
Hey Anthy! How did you get that sword between those things in the first
place? *^^*
--
//\ // Chika <zvl...@penfuarg.bet.hx. - ROT13>
// \// The second ZFC coming <crashnet.org.uk/zedeffcee>
... Scotty, I've fallen and I can't beam up!
Ronny Cook
"Kurt Bernhard Pruenner" <9sjs...@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:412A53EC...@njuuus.desdemona.ssw.uni-linz.ac.at...
> ru.ig...@usask.ca wrote:
> > So to the original poster, if you like Excel, I suspect you won't
> > like Lain. If you didn't like Excel, there is a chance you will
> > like Lain.
>
> So what does that make me, then? I like 'em both... o_O;;
>
Excel makes you feel like your mind has been put through a
blender. Lain is more like one of those dough-kneading machines
they use in making bread.
The pace is slower, but you're still questioning your sanity
at the end.
Lain is thoughtful, a jigsaw puzzle constructed piece by piece.
Don't watch it if you're after humour, or action, or even drama;
there is some drama, but the focus of S.E. Lain is not on the
characters but on the ideas that link the whole thing together.
It also has an unusual "look", very "arty", almost dreamy. The
standard covers give a good idea of what to expect.
There's no question that Lain is very good. Whether the O.P.
would actually enjoy it is another question entirely.
...Ronny
Michael Borgwardt
> There's no question that Lain is very good.
There certainly is.
Animeg3282
>It's trivial to write an anime that makes you think by not explaining things
>and getting fans to come up with dozens of "obviously correct" explanations
>for what is really going on. It's not too hard to scrupulously avoid
>action-adventure or other low culture elements (except to deconstruct them),
>thus ensuring that everyone treats your series as one with great literary
>merit. (If you do it right, you can even pass off your budget-saving still
>shots and repeated segments as literary.)
>
>Lain has a lot in common with the second half of Evangelion in this respect.
That reminds me of Utena, so are there a lot of Lain fan essays? My favorite
fan artform I have decided is fan essays- instead of OMG!!! YAOI!!! BISHIE!!!,
we get almost coherent explanations of confusing series..
--
http://www.cassowarybuttons.com <--- Buttons for everyone.
My blogs:
http://buttonmakersball.blogspot.com <--button making
http://animeg.blogspot.com <--rants on everything
Michael Borgwardt
> That reminds me of Utena, so are there a lot of Lain fan essays? My favorite
> fan artform I have decided is fan essays- instead of OMG!!! YAOI!!! BISHIE!!!,
> we get almost coherent explanations of confusing series..
You mistyped "interpretations".
Antonio E. Gonzalez
>Date: 8/23/2004 1:41 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <fqlki09aq3sjrp3ti...@4ax.com>
>
>On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 22:30:36 +0200, Kurt Bernhard Pruenner
><9sjs...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
>
>>ru.ig...@usask.ca wrote:
>>> So to the original poster, if you like Excel, I suspect you won't
>>> like Lain. If you didn't like Excel, there is a chance you will
>>> like Lain.
>>
>>So what does that make me, then? I like 'em both... o_O;;
>
>A nutter. *nod*
>
Hey, I liked Lain, and *loved* Excel Saga! Though I'll see Lain again to
see just what I missed; there really does seem to be something in there . .
Aw hell, it's not like I don't mind being called a "nutter"; I find my
mental instability to part of what makes me such an individual!
>"Those that threaten us and kill innocents around the
> world do not need to be treated more sensitively,
> they need to be destroyed" - Vice President Cheney
>
"Woa, did he just call the President a pussy?!"
- Vaughner
- Gundam Seed: Where the boys are pretty, and the girls take advantage of it .
. . and them!
Michelle Klein-Hass
> ken said
>
>>It's trivial to write an anime that makes you think by not explaining
>>things and getting fans to come up with dozens of "obviously correct"
>>explanations for what is really going on. It's not too hard to
>>scrupulously avoid action-adventure or other low culture elements
>>(except to deconstruct them), thus ensuring that everyone treats your
>>series as one with great literary merit. (If you do it right, you can
>>even pass off your budget-saving still shots and repeated segments as
>>literary.)
>>
>>Lain has a lot in common with the second half of Evangelion in this
>>respect.
>
> That reminds me of Utena, so are there a lot of Lain fan essays? My
> favorite fan artform I have decided is fan essays- instead of OMG!!!
> YAOI!!! BISHIE!!!, we get almost coherent explanations of confusing
> series..
You mean like this:
http://www.cjas.org/~leng/lain.htm
A very thought-provoking site about a very thought-provoking series.
And yes, I liked Excel Saga almost as much as I liked Serial Experiments:
Lain and ABe's project after Lain, Haibane Renmei. Although I liked Excel
Saga for much different reasons than I liked Lain. And Puni Puni Poemy was
too much for me...<shudder>.
--
Ms. Geek (Michelle Klein-Hass)...terrorizing Usenet since 1992!
Charter member, SPCM, (Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Menchi)
"Families of Japan, it is not too late to enjoy Turkey with Gravy." -- Kaga
Chika
> There certainly is.
Perhaps that can be better put. The problem is that Lain has to be watched
with the brain very firmly in gear, or you will get lost. Certainly the
anime is well put together, and the story is very coherant if a bit
difficult to follow, but if you put the effort into following it, it can
pay dividends.
The problem is that not everyone wants to put that much effort into such a
title, and sometimes that can reflect badly on a title. You could, for
example, argue that anime is more for entertainment than anything
intellectual, but you could also argue that the intellectual stimulus of
such a title could be construed as entertaining. One side would consider
the show as very good, whilst the other would brand it as crap. Horses for
courses, or to put it in Usenet lingo, YMMV.
--
//\ // Chika <zvl...@penfuarg.bet.hx. - ROT13>
// \// The second ZFC coming <crashnet.org.uk/zedeffcee>
... Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum!
Michael Borgwardt
> Perhaps that can be better put. The problem is that Lain has to be watched
> with the brain very firmly in gear, or you will get lost. Certainly the
> anime is well put together, and the story is very coherant if a bit
> difficult to follow,
This is a contradiction of terms.
> but if you put the effort into following it, it can
> pay dividends.
These dividends can take the form of a realization that there's precious
little substance under all those layers.
> The problem is that not everyone wants to put that much effort into such a
> title, and sometimes that can reflect badly on a title. You could, for
> example, argue that anime is more for entertainment than anything
> intellectual, but you could also argue that the intellectual stimulus of
> such a title could be construed as entertaining.
One might alos argue that guessing games are not all that much of an
intellectual stimulus.
Eric Schwartz
> Chika wrote:
>> Perhaps that can be better put. The problem is that Lain has to be watched
>> with the brain very firmly in gear, or you will get lost. Certainly the
>> anime is well put together, and the story is very coherant if a bit
>> difficult to follow,
>
> This is a contradiction of terms.
Not at all. You can have a very easy-to-follow story that makes no
goddam sense, viz. AvP, or any of the Matrix movies. Contrariwise,
you can have a story that is internally consistent and logically
derivable from a set of base premises, but is doled out at an unusual
pace, making it hard to follow, viz. Lain.
>> but if you put the effort into following it, it can
>> pay dividends.
>
> These dividends can take the form of a realization that there's precious
> little substance under all those layers.
They can, but that doesn't mean it's so.
>> The problem is that not everyone wants to put that much effort into such a
>> title, and sometimes that can reflect badly on a title. You could, for
>> example, argue that anime is more for entertainment than anything
>> intellectual, but you could also argue that the intellectual stimulus of
>> such a title could be construed as entertaining.
>
> One might alos argue that guessing games are not all that much of an
> intellectual stimulus.
It's always a tough line to draw, figuring out how much to tell, and
how much not to tell. Some people enjoy ambiguity more than others;
clearly, you don't like it very much. Others of us enjoy stories that
require us to think more, and puzzle out for ourselves a bit of what
is happening.
But just because a story does not come right out and tell you
everything about it ("Now we're going to discuss the Wired, and how it
interfaces with real life. Note subject A, who percieves no Wired in
her life at all, and subject B, who can't see anything else. This is
due to the shared human consciousness, as expressed by..."), that
doesn't make the story bad. It's simply a different set of choices.
-=Eric
--
Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million
typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare.
-- Blair Houghton.
Michael Borgwardt
>>One might alos argue that guessing games are not all that much of an
>>intellectual stimulus.
>
> It's always a tough line to draw, figuring out how much to tell, and
> how much not to tell. Some people enjoy ambiguity more than others;
> clearly, you don't like it very much. Others of us enjoy stories that
> require us to think more, and puzzle out for ourselves a bit of what
> is happening.
Ambiguity is a good word, especially because it makes somewhat clear
that is has NOTHING to do with a requirement to think: something that
is ambiguous doesn't HAVE a single meaning.
What I don't like is shows that just throw in a lot of stuff with no
regard for actual storybuilding and just rely on those of you who'll
gobble it up, interpret something into it that the writers probably
never thought of and think themselves oh so smart because they "got it",
when what they did was not understanding or explanation but
*interpretation*.
> But just because a story does not come right out and tell you
> everything about it ("Now we're going to discuss the Wired, and how it
> interfaces with real life. Note subject A, who percieves no Wired in
> her life at all, and subject B, who can't see anything else. This is
> due to the shared human consciousness, as expressed by..."), that
> doesn't make the story bad. It's simply a different set of choices.
There is also a difference between not telling the reader everything
and not having much to tell and trying to cloak this in loads of
obscure references and loose plot threads.
Chika
<bra...@brazils-animeland.de> wrote:
> Chika wrote:
> > Perhaps that can be better put. The problem is that Lain has to be
> > watched with the brain very firmly in gear, or you will get lost.
> > Certainly the anime is well put together, and the story is very
> > coherant if a bit difficult to follow,
> This is a contradiction of terms.
Not necessarily. As I say later, it depends on what you are looking for
(or indeed at).
> > but if you put the effort into following it, it can pay dividends.
> These dividends can take the form of a realization that there's precious
> little substance under all those layers.
Or there is more there that you suspect.
> > The problem is that not everyone wants to put that much effort into
> > such a title, and sometimes that can reflect badly on a title. You
> > could, for example, argue that anime is more for entertainment than
> > anything intellectual, but you could also argue that the intellectual
> > stimulus of such a title could be construed as entertaining.
> One might alos argue that guessing games are not all that much of an
> intellectual stimulus.
Guessing games?
I suspect that the story possible passed over your head. Not a problem.
Like I said, YMMV.
--
//\ // Chika <zvl...@penfuarg.bet.hx. - ROT13>
// \// The second ZFC coming <crashnet.org.uk/zedeffcee>
... A)bort R)etry G)et a stick and kill it.
Animeg3282
>You mistyped "interpretations".
(spoilers for Utena, possibly)
I think it's both. For example, in Utena, Akio keeps trying to get to the
meaning of the poppy in flower language, but they never get there. A fan essay
might explain that the poppy means consolation, or it may go farther, and tie
this scene into the end where Dios tries to 'console' Utena for the loss of her
dream, and the latter is an interpretation.
Eric Schwartz
> Ambiguity is a good word, especially because it makes somewhat clear
> that is has NOTHING to do with a requirement to think: something that
> is ambiguous doesn't HAVE a single meaning.
But it can have (doesn't always, to be sure) a "most probable"
meaning. And anyway, what's wrong with ambiguity? Life is
ambiguous-- we don't always understand what's going on; in fact, the
only sure thing you can count on is that you NEVER know the whole
story about anything. I personally think stories that reflect this
are a Good Thing.
> What I don't like is shows that just throw in a lot of stuff with no
> regard for actual storybuilding and just rely on those of you who'll
> gobble it up, interpret something into it that the writers probably
> never thought of and think themselves oh so smart because they "got it",
> when what they did was not understanding or explanation but
> *interpretation*.
I'm not always a huge fan of those myself, but Lain isn't one of them,
at any rate. Admittedly, you have to wait for the last two episodes
to get that overly-long speech about "Protocol 7" and the Jungian
shared unconsciousness, but it's all fairly clearly laid out. Now
that I know what's going on, I'd like to go back at some point and
watch it again, to see how things I previously thought were confusing
or inane were actually carefully placed to give the desired
impression.
> There is also a difference between not telling the reader everything
> and not having much to tell and trying to cloak this in loads of
> obscure references and loose plot threads.
This is true. However, you have not shown that Lain is doing this--
which is good for you, because it isn't.
Chika
Michael Borgwardt <bra...@brazils-animeland.de> wrote:
> > But just because a story does not come right out and tell you
> > everything about it ("Now we're going to discuss the Wired, and how it
> > interfaces with real life. Note subject A, who percieves no Wired in
> > her life at all, and subject B, who can't see anything else. This is
> > due to the shared human consciousness, as expressed by..."), that
> > doesn't make the story bad. It's simply a different set of choices.
> There is also a difference between not telling the reader everything
> and not having much to tell and trying to cloak this in loads of
> obscure references and loose plot threads.
Certainly, but this isn't a charge I'd lay on Lain. Eva, maybe.
--
//\ // Chika <zvl...@penfuarg.bet.hx. - ROT13>
// \// The second ZFC coming <crashnet.org.uk/zedeffcee>
... Some Do, Some Don't, Some Will and Some Won't.
Eric Schwartz
> In article <2p1e3sF...@uni-berlin.de>,
> Michael Borgwardt <bra...@brazils-animeland.de> wrote:
>> There is also a difference between not telling the reader everything
>> and not having much to tell and trying to cloak this in loads of
>> obscure references and loose plot threads.
>
> Certainly, but this isn't a charge I'd lay on Lain. Eva, maybe.
I don't know; I thought Eva was relatively straightforward in its
storytelling. Nonlinear, sure, irritating, at times, sure, and very
frustrating in its original ending (not for the art "style", but for
the loose ends left unravelled). But as the mystery unfolded, it did
so with fairly straightforward plot twists.
Eric Schwartz
> What do you think of Tenchi Muyou?
I like it (well, the OAVs-- I haven't watched the other continuities,
so I can't comment on them).
> It, too, rarely explains things.
I don't know; I think it explains quite a lot, actually. There's
relatively little in TM that doesn't get explained in the story sooner
or later. If, say, Washuu-chan had stayed that way all the time, and
never let on that she was the mad scientist who created Ryoko, but let
little hints slip past here and there, that might be comparable.
> And it's got a lot of apparently confusing or inane stuff that has
> a definite meaning behind it that just wasn't explained with a five
> minute lecture. (Quick: How come Ryouko attacks Tenchi in the first
> episode, yet it's later revealed that she was aware of his presence
> for years?)
Good point-- but I believe most of these to be relatively minor
points. Most of the major mysteries are explained, or will be,
whenever we get the never-to-be-sufficiently-damned-for-being-so-late
third OAV "season"-- which will, of course, raise new ones.
(N.B.: I don't consider "Who will Tenchi end up with?" to be a
mystery, as such; I'm talking about things like, "What are the
Goddesses up to, REALLY?", and "What role will Sasami/Tsunami play in
it, and will it be the one they/she signed up for?" and such.)
> However, unlike Lain or the second half of Evangelion, the main plot is full
> of action/adventure and wish fulfillment. People who are inclined to do
> detailed literary analysis tend not to want to analyze series with such plot
> elements.
>
> So would you say the same things about Tenchi that you would about Lain?
> I think that it's possible to,
I think it's possible-- it's stretching things a bit too much, for me,
but I can see how you get there from here, and I don't think it's a
completely wrong way to view the OAV series, inasmuch as it more or
less matches up with my own.
Eric Schwartz
> In article <2p1e3sF...@uni-berlin.de>,
> Michael Borgwardt <bra...@brazils-animeland.de> wrote:
>>regard for actual storybuilding and just rely on those of you who'll
>>gobble it up, interpret something into it that the writers probably
>>never thought of and think themselves oh so smart because they "got it",
>>when what they did was not understanding or explanation but
>>*interpretation*.
>
> they really meant in the show (Red Cross Book for Evangelion, Tenchi 101 for
> Tenchi), thus establishing for certain an interpretation that's only one
> possibility if you watch the show itself.
But what I enjoy about such shows is that you CAN come up with other
interpretations that are as valid as the creator's, as judged solely
by the evidence within the show. It's a fun way to spend my time--
thinking up alternate explanations for this character's seemingly
out-of-character actions that don't break the suspension of disbelief.
I enjoy, for instance, David Brin's reinterpretation of the Star Wars
movies that has Darth Vader being a double agent for the Light Side of
the Force, sent in by an unusually devious Ben Kenobi to free the
galaxy from the stultifyingly fascist Republic. Not because I
necessarily believe it to be true, but because it's such a radically
different interpretation that he manages to justify based on his
interpretation of the "facts", as they're presented in the movies.
Rob Kelk
wrote:
>In article <887734a2.0408...@posting.google.com>, Scott
>Dubin <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> jo...@cox.net (MS#1Fanboy-JoJo) wrote in message
>> news:<qj9Wc.23302$yh.13848@fed1read05>...
>> > I was reading about it and it sounds pretty cool with the girl getting
>> > email
>> > from a dead person. Just wondering if anybody has seen it and if its worth
>> > getting. Is it a ghost story or what?
>>
>> Its bascially an art anime. Not a ghost story, but a paranoia
>> schizophrenic sort of story. It's very good, based on, and based
>> on, among other things, Carl Jung's idea of the collective unconscous.
>>
>> It's an anime that a lot of people don't get, but it really does make
>> sense.
>
>Even some of us who "get" it think it's more style then story. Often
>while watching it, the endless debate over whether the still shots of
>power lines are a commentary on modern society or just a way to not
>animate anything for a couple minutes starts up again :)
That's the reason I made sure the power lines were visible in both
images of Yomoda Chisa I used on the Meganekko Gallery - it's not a good
idea to alienate the visitors... ^_^
--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> robkelk -at- jksrv -dot- com
"I'm *not* a kid! Nyyyeaaah!" - Skuld (in "Oh My Goddess!" OAV #3)
"When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear of
childishness and the desire to be very grown-up." - C.S. Lewis, 1947
Chris Kern
(Ken Arromdee) posted the following:
>What often happens is the creators of the show write a book explaining what
>they really meant in the show (Red Cross Book for Evangelion, Tenchi 101 for
>Tenchi), thus establishing for certain an interpretation that's only one
>possibility if you watch the show itself.
If only Ikuhara would write one of those for Utena!
-Chris
Chika
Eric Schwartz <emsc...@pobox.com> wrote:
> Chika <miy...@spam-no-way.invalid> writes:
> > In article <2p1e3sF...@uni-berlin.de>,
> > Michael Borgwardt <bra...@brazils-animeland.de> wrote:
> >> There is also a difference between not telling the reader everything
> >> and not having much to tell and trying to cloak this in loads of
> >> obscure references and loose plot threads.
> >
> > Certainly, but this isn't a charge I'd lay on Lain. Eva, maybe.
> I don't know; I thought Eva was relatively straightforward in its
> storytelling. Nonlinear, sure, irritating, at times, sure, and very
> frustrating in its original ending (not for the art "style", but for
> the loose ends left unravelled). But as the mystery unfolded, it did
> so with fairly straightforward plot twists.
I've never been sure about that, mostly because of the ending. Certainly
the EoE movie did help to sort that out for me, though there does seem to
be some difference of opinion even now. That's why I said "maybe".
--
//\ // Chika <zvl...@penfuarg.bet.hx. - ROT13>
// \// The second ZFC coming <crashnet.org.uk/zedeffcee>
... A lie that can be passed off as truth becomes truth.
Animeg3282
>If only Ikuhara would write one of those for Utena!
>
I heard he wants everyone to try to figure it out for themselves.
Rose Prescott
<chris...@yahoo.com> writes:
Heavens, you could write at least four! As Rudyard Kipling said:
"There are nine and sixty ways of constructing tribal lays,
And every single one of them is right!"
Rose
Vegetarians eat vegetables. Now about those humanitarians ....
Blade
news:cgehas$ggj$1...@blue.rahul.net:
> In article <slrncikiu2...@debian.dns2go.com>,
> Justin <nos...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>>>> It's an anime that makes you think.
>>> Things like, "Dear gods, why am I watching this instead of 'Excel
>>> Saga'?"
>>If that's what you're thinking then you have no hope.
>
> It's trivial to write an anime that makes you think by not explaining
> things and getting fans to come up with dozens of "obviously correct"
> explanations for what is really going on. It's not too hard to
> scrupulously avoid action-adventure or other low culture elements
> (except to deconstruct them), thus ensuring that everyone treats your
> series as one with great literary merit. (If you do it right, you can
> even pass off your budget-saving still shots and repeated segments as
> literary.)
>
> Lain has a lot in common with the second half of Evangelion in this
> respect.
Except for making sense. Eva was directed by a man having anervous
breakdown. Lain is very deliberately made the way it is.
Saying "it's not deep" doesn't make it so, any more than saying "it is
deep" makes it so. But I never had any problems whatsoever finding Lain
coherent, well-thought-out, and well-put-together. Nor did I find
anything for which there wasn't an explanation in it. Unlike Eva, in
every respect.
Blade
--
Also Known As: Chris McNeil, The Annoying Jerk, The Enemy of Democracy,
The Bearer Of The Long .Sig, "That Guy That Can't Write A Lunch Menu
Without Pantyhose Tarou Being In It Somewhere"
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com
- More comedy per random image gallery page than the market leaders!
http://www.bladeandepsilon.com/kaliashrine.htm
- Kalia rules. Oh yes, it's true. It's damn true.
"Shawn Michaels - holding up gay strippers for their wardrobes since
1988." - from the OO boards, slightly paraphrased, but oh so true.
Blade
news:FWCWc.3728$%j6....@news02.roc.ny:
> "Kurt Bernhard Pruenner" <9sjs...@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
> news:412A53EC...@njuuus.desdemona.ssw.uni-linz.ac.at...
>> ru.ig...@usask.ca wrote:
>> > So to the original poster, if you like Excel, I suspect you won't
>> > like Lain. If you didn't like Excel, there is a chance you will
>> > like Lain.
>>
>> So what does that make me, then? I like 'em both... o_O;;
>
> Someone who probably enjoyed ChuChu in Revolutionary Girl Utena TV for
> the humor and The Adolescence of Utena movie for the weirdness.
Hmm. I like Chu-Chu because he makes perfect and total, beautiful sense,
and I pretty much like the movie for its prettyness and not much else. But
oh well. ;p
Blade
> "Richard V. Lamb" wrote:
>> Someone who probably enjoyed ChuChu in Revolutionary Girl Utena TV for
>> the humor and The Adolescence of Utena movie for the weirdness.
>
> Not really - never considered even looking at anything Utena, sounds too
> much of some lame romantic story thing to me.
You might want to check it out, at least watching until The Castle Where
Eternity Dwells. Utena isn't a romance. It's more of a...actually, I
can't really say without spoiling it. It's highly unlike pretty much
everything else out there, anyway.
Blade
news:2p18rcF...@uni-berlin.de:
> Chika wrote:
>> Perhaps that can be better put. The problem is that Lain has to be
>> watched with the brain very firmly in gear, or you will get lost.
>> Certainly the anime is well put together, and the story is very
>> coherant if a bit difficult to follow,
>
> This is a contradiction of terms.
>
>> but if you put the effort into following it, it can
>> pay dividends.
>
> These dividends can take the form of a realization that there's
> precious little substance under all those layers.
If they take the form of "realising" that there's nothing there, that
there ISN'T a very coherent plotline where everything is pieced together
and the clues carefully placed (as Ken Arromdee said)...then you're
wrong.
If it is simply that you don't feel it's worth the effort, or that you
don't LIKE the very coherent plotline...then you're entitled to your
opinion, naturally.
Scott Dubin
> In article <887734a2.0408...@posting.google.com>, Scott
> Dubin <scott...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > jo...@cox.net (MS#1Fanboy-JoJo) wrote in message
> > news:<qj9Wc.23302$yh.13848@fed1read05>...
> > > I was reading about it and it sounds pretty cool with the girl getting
> > > from a dead person. Just wondering if anybody has seen it and if its worth
> > > getting. Is it a ghost story or what?
> >
> > Its bascially an art anime. Not a ghost story, but a paranoia
> > schizophrenic sort of story. It's very good, based on, and based
> > on, among other things, Carl Jung's idea of the collective unconscous.
> >
> > It's an anime that a lot of people don't get, but it really does make
> > sense.
>
> Even some of us who "get" it think it's more style then story. Often
> while watching it, the endless debate over whether the still shots of
> power lines are a commentary on modern society or just a way to not
> animate anything for a couple minutes starts up again :)
Who says it's either/or?
In Utena, for example, the reused footage comments on the ritualistic
situation going and the repititive generational struggle in society
and life... plus it's friggin cheap.
Blade
news:eehni0hpt2lkaa6p1...@4ax.com:
He doesn't want to. I think he rather regrets the few clear answers he HAS
given. ;p
Chris Kern
the following:
>He doesn't want to. I think he rather regrets the few clear answers he HAS
>given. ;p
He's made up for it though by doling out some very suspicious answers
as well so that all his statements get thrown into doubt. (For
instance, Ikuhara apparently told someone at a con that Anthy
deliberately caused the coffin to fall at the end, which seems hard
for me to believe.)
-Chris
Chris Kern
(Ken Arromdee) posted the following:
>It's trivial to write an anime that makes you think by not explaining things
>and getting fans to come up with dozens of "obviously correct" explanations
>for what is really going on.
I don't think it's as easy as you say. There has to be some substance
there or people can't come up with anything.
-Chris
Michael Borgwardt
>>It's trivial to write an anime that makes you think by not explaining things
>>and getting fans to come up with dozens of "obviously correct" explanations
>>for what is really going on.
>
>
> I don't think it's as easy as you say. There has to be some substance
> there or people can't come up with anything.
You're seriously underestimating people's powers of imagination.
Derek Janssen
That's exactly what they said about those old Magic Eye 3-D pictures.
Of which Lain could be considered the TV/anime equivalent.
Derek Janssen (who doesn't think he'll ever find a better metaphor)
dja...@rcn.com
Kurt Bernhard Pruenner
> Michael Borgwardt wrote:
> > You're seriously underestimating people's powers of imagination.
>
> That's exactly what they said about those old Magic Eye 3-D pictures.
>
> Of which Lain could be considered the TV/anime equivalent.
What can I say? Both worked for me...
--
Kurt Bernhard Pruenner --- Haendelstrasse 17 --- 4020 Linz --- Austria
.......It might be written "Mindfuck", but it's spelt "L-A-I-N".......
np: The Modernist - Kodac Moments (Kangmei)
Michael Borgwardt
>>> I don't think it's as easy as you say. There has to be some substance
>>> there or people can't come up with anything.
>>
>>
>> You're seriously underestimating people's powers of imagination.
>
>
> That's exactly what they said about those old Magic Eye 3-D pictures.
>
> Of which Lain could be considered the TV/anime equivalent.
I'd say that there is still a clear difference: if there is something
there, people will see the same thing. If not, they'll come up with
different things unless they've been told what to expect.
In terms of anime series, if it's really well-planned with everything
wrapping up neatly when all details are taken into account, there
there should not be many conflicting interpretations and everyone
should be able to agree on a single one relatively quickly.
I don't have the impression that this is the case with Lain, but
I have to admit that I haven't participated in may discussions
about it.
Michael Borgwardt
> What do you think of Tenchi Muyou?
>
> or inane stuff that has a definite meaning behind it that just wasn't
> explained with a five minute lecture. (Quick: How come Ryouko attacks Tenchi
> in the first episode, yet it's later revealed that she was aware of his
> presence for years?)
The problem with Tenchi Muyo is that it's not finished. So many of the
things that cannot be satisfyingly explained now may be when it's finished.
The 3 episodes of the new OAV already have made clear some things and
hinted that others will be.
> However, unlike Lain or the second half of Evangelion, the main plot is full
> of action/adventure and wish fulfillment. People who are inclined to do
> detailed literary analysis tend not to want to analyze series with such plot
> elements.
Obviously you haven't been on the Tenchi Muyo ML. At one point it was
plagued by the worst case of excessive interpretation I've ever seen.
A guy was posting a series of essays dozens of pages long detailing his
interpretation of Tenchi Muyo based on Taoism. These were written as
authoritative statements of facts, and he never replied to people who
pointed out obvious contradictions between them and events in the anime
or real Taoism.
> So would you say the same things about Tenchi that you would about Lain?
I am a big fan of Tenchi Muyo (not sure whether you chose it because of that),
and I wouldn't be if I saw it that way. This may partially change if the
coming OAV episodes fail to provide sufficient answers or hints to tie up
most of the open questions.
But even then, there are still, as you menationed, other enjoyable aspects
of Tenchi Muyo and also Evangelion, while this is not so with Lain.
Michael Borgwardt
>>There is also a difference between not telling the reader everything
>>and not having much to tell and trying to cloak this in loads of
>>obscure references and loose plot threads.
>
>
> Certainly, but this isn't a charge I'd lay on Lain. Eva, maybe.
Eva, without the shadow of a doubt, due to statements of the
writers that all the religious stuff had no meaning and was just
thrown in to look mysterious, and that the plot wasn't really
all that important and just a means to be able to dissect the
main characters' psyches.
Michael Borgwardt
> But what I enjoy about such shows is that you CAN come up with other
> interpretations that are as valid as the creator's, as judged solely
> by the evidence within the show. It's a fun way to spend my time--
> thinking up alternate explanations for this character's seemingly
> out-of-character actions that don't break the suspension of disbelief.
Well, this is exactly something I can stomach only in very limited doses,
because a high potential for it coincides too closely with simple
shoddy storytelling.
Michael Borgwardt
>>One might alos argue that guessing games are not all that much of an
>>intellectual stimulus.
>
>
> Guessing games?
>
> I suspect that the story possible passed over your head. Not a problem.
I suspect you're deluding yourself about the story's depth. Not a problem either.
Blade
>> So would you say the same things about Tenchi that you would about
>> Lain?
>
> I am a big fan of Tenchi Muyo (not sure whether you chose it because
> of that), and I wouldn't be if I saw it that way. This may partially
> change if the coming OAV episodes fail to provide sufficient answers
> or hints to tie up most of the open questions.
>
> But even then, there are still, as you menationed, other enjoyable
> aspects of Tenchi Muyo and also Evangelion, while this is not so with
> Lain.
For you, perhaps. I would rather beg to differ, since I enjoy the art,
music, mood, style, and characters of Lain, entirely aside from the well-
constructed storyline that I also like.
Michael Borgwardt
>>These dividends can take the form of a realization that there's
>>precious little substance under all those layers.
>
>
> If they take the form of "realising" that there's nothing there, that
> there ISN'T a very coherent plotline where everything is pieced together
> and the clues carefully placed (as Ken Arromdee said)...then you're
> wrong.
Or maybe you are. I'm not saying that nothing makes sense, only that
that which clearly does make sense is disappointingly simple and buried
in too many irrelevant details added just for show and confusion.
It's really pointless to discuss this without going into details of the
actual story. Which I won't do because it has been a long time since
I watched it and I only remember bits and pieces along with my
disappointment - and I'm not going to re-watch it just for the sake
of this discussion, especially since I 'd have to borrow it from
a friend.
Blade
> Blade wrote:
>>>These dividends can take the form of a realization that there's
>>>precious little substance under all those layers.
>>
>>
>> If they take the form of "realising" that there's nothing there, that
>> there ISN'T a very coherent plotline where everything is pieced
>> together and the clues carefully placed (as Ken Arromdee said)...then
>> you're wrong.
>
> Or maybe you are. I'm not saying that nothing makes sense, only that
> that which clearly does make sense is disappointingly simple and
> buried in too many irrelevant details added just for show and
> confusion.
Then you agree with me. Look at all I said. What you consider
"irrelevent", or what is "disappointingly simple"...is opinion, and
unlikely to be changed, so why argue over it? My point was that there IS
a coherent plotline there, and as long as you don't argue with that
point, I have no issue with you liking it or not.
Derek Janssen
> What do you think of Tenchi Muyou?
>
> It, too, rarely explains things. And it's got a lot of apparently confusing
> or inane stuff that has a definite meaning behind it that just wasn't
> explained with a five minute lecture. (Quick: How come Ryouko attacks Tenchi
> in the first episode, yet it's later revealed that she was aware of his
> presence for years?)
If you're still trying to come up with rational logical A->B
explanations of why things happen from one TM!-OAV episode to the next,
well, NOW you know why some of us watch the TV version instead.
And not Lain.
Derek Janssen (life's too short to be a sucker)
dja...@rcn.com
ru.ig...@usask.ca
>"Richard V. Lamb" wrote:
>> Someone who probably enjoyed ChuChu in Revolutionary Girl Utena TV for
>> the humor and The Adolescence of Utena movie for the weirdness.
>Not really - never considered even looking at anything Utena, sounds too
>much of some lame romantic story thing to me.
If it's a romantic story, it's a really wierd one.
I mean, yes, there is a romantic element or two, but generally the
whole thing is really surreal. The romantic leads, if you can call
them that, aren't really all that romantic, as most of the time is
spent on, well, just about everything else, every single surreal
thing. I'm being intentionally vague here, because, well, it's
wierd (surfing elephants and an impossible quest for thousand
year old curry comes to mind... and yes, that does make sense
in context).
Now if you mean "romantic" in the classical sense (knights in
shining armor, chivalry, etc), then, yes, again, and again,
it's a really wierd one.
Now, I say "it's wierd", but I mean it in a good way. It's a lot
of fun, quite interesting, and doesn't get wishy-washy until near
the end, and even then... it's still wierd. Yes, I really like
the show.
ru
--
Maintainer of the REC.ARTS.ANIME.MUSIC FAQs
http://www.geocities.com/ruigarashi/FAQS/raa_music/
and the Annual rec.arts.anime.* "What are we like?" survey
http://www.geocities.com/ruigarashi/Surveys/fans/
Blade
> In article <412cde98$0$19710$61fe...@news.rcn.com>,
> Derek Janssen <dja...@rcn.com> wrote:
>>> It, too, rarely explains things. And it's got a lot of apparently
>>> confusing or inane stuff that has a definite meaning behind it that
>>> just wasn't explained with a five minute lecture. (Quick: How come
>>> Ryouko attacks Tenchi in the first episode, yet it's later revealed
>>> that she was aware of his presence for years?)
>>If you're still trying to come up with rational logical A->B
>>explanations of why things happen from one TM!-OAV episode to the
>>next, well, NOW you know why some of us watch the TV version instead.
>
> There's a perfectly rational explanation for what I just pointed out:
> Ryouko was teasing Tenchi, and wouldn't really hurt him except by
> accident or in a fit of thoughtless anger (i.e. when called a
> monster).
Except for that part where several times she launched deadly attacks at
where she THOUGHT he was but in fact wasn't sure of his location, of
course.
Nor is this "teasing" really in line with anything she does later, and it
doesn't make sense in light of what her supposed experiences were,
either.
I'd say the answer has more to do with the creative team from Episode 1
being different than that in the rest of the series than anything else.
paranormalized
>"Richard V. Lamb" <prof...@frontiernet.net> wrote in
>news:FWCWc.3728$%j6....@news02.roc.ny:
>
>> "Kurt Bernhard Pruenner" <9sjs...@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
>> news:412A53EC...@njuuus.desdemona.ssw.uni-linz.ac.at...
>>> ru.ig...@usask.ca wrote:
>>> > So to the original poster, if you like Excel, I suspect you won't
>>> > like Lain. If you didn't like Excel, there is a chance you will
>>> > like Lain.
>>>
>>> So what does that make me, then? I like 'em both... o_O;;
>>
>> Someone who probably enjoyed ChuChu in Revolutionary Girl Utena TV for
>> the humor and The Adolescence of Utena movie for the weirdness.
>
>Hmm. I like Chu-Chu because he makes perfect and total, beautiful sense,
>and I pretty much like the movie for its prettyness and not much else. But
>oh well. ;p
>
I like the fact that, AFAIK, you never see Chu-Chu and Dios together
in the same room. ^_~
If you have evidence otherwise, I'll accept it, but dangit! It
explains *so much*... :p
>Blade
Jonathan Fisher
----------
How's my text? Please correct for rudeness, lack of clarity, etc
ROT13 (cnenabeznyvmrq NG rneguyvax Q B G arg) to Email.
Blade
news:pcmqi0t7rq5oasmiv...@4ax.com:
> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 03:22:01 GMT, Blade <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Richard V. Lamb" <prof...@frontiernet.net> wrote in
>>news:FWCWc.3728$%j6....@news02.roc.ny:
>>
>>> "Kurt Bernhard Pruenner" <9sjs...@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:412A53EC...@njuuus.desdemona.ssw.uni-linz.ac.at...
>>>> ru.ig...@usask.ca wrote:
>>>> > So to the original poster, if you like Excel, I suspect you won't
>>>> > like Lain. If you didn't like Excel, there is a chance you will
>>>> > like Lain.
>>>>
>>>> So what does that make me, then? I like 'em both... o_O;;
>>>
>>> Someone who probably enjoyed ChuChu in Revolutionary Girl Utena TV
>>> for the humor and The Adolescence of Utena movie for the weirdness.
>>
>>Hmm. I like Chu-Chu because he makes perfect and total, beautiful
>>sense, and I pretty much like the movie for its prettyness and not
>>much else. But oh well. ;p
>>
> I like the fact that, AFAIK, you never see Chu-Chu and Dios together
> in the same room. ^_~
>
> If you have evidence otherwise, I'll accept it, but dangit! It
> explains *so much*... :p
Not really, but...
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
...I don't believe Chu-Chu and Akio are ever together in the same scene.
Read into that what you will, but what exactly does THAT mean about the
already disturbing-scene where Anthy makes "Chu-Chu" noises when her and
Akio are sexxxorzing? ;p
paranormalized
Dammit, it looked damned simple and straightforward to ME! ;)
Story and plotwise, it uses a *weird* Jungian-derived mythology, but
thematically, it basically is <ROT 13>na vairegrq Senaxrafgrva. Gur
perngbe vf gur zbafgre, gur perngvba vf gur xvaq, fnar, rzcnguvp,
vagryyvtrag orvat, qevira gb fnpevsvpr vgf yvsr (sbe nyy rssrpgf naq
checbfrf) gb fgbc vgf cvgvshyyl-zbafgebhf perngbe naq haqb uvf
uhoevfgvp jbex.
Be, fvzcyvslvat rira zber, ragjvarq-lrg-bccbfvat sngrf, frys-qvfpbirel
bs frys naq sngr, naq pbasebagngvba j/fnpevsvpr.</ROT13> And a mental
breakdown to drive plot points forward, alongside a fracturing
reality. The double breakdown makes Lain darned weird,
atmospherically, I'll admit... and the mythology is *freaky* and
*disturbing*. A double or triple-dose of weirdness can utterly mess
with simple interpretation, but going back to rough themes simplifies.
I'll sum up Utena here too.... um, <ROT13>Crefbany Yblnygl if.
Purevfurq Vqrnyf,(vr., Vagreany Zbeny Pbasyvpg) jvgu yblnygl gbgnyyl
jvaavat bhg va guvf fgbel.</ROT13> Actively weird symbolism from no
single source messes with things, along with conflicting loyalties and
opposing ideals obscuring the main issue. Length and side stories
throw this and my interpretation of Lain into doubt, but I generally
let the ending define the story and its theme. Any others you want?
What the heck, I'll even sum up this post's theme- <Totally
Gratuitous ROT13> Uhoevfgvp Reebe. Ivn rkprffvir cevqr va vagryyrpg.
;) </ROT13>
Jonathan Fisher
quite possibly totally wrong. If so, I claim it's all Self-Discovery.
*Everything* is Self-Discovery, when looked at right. :P
lvi...@gmail.com
According to Eric Schwartz <emsc...@pobox.com>:
: AvP, or any of the Matrix movies. Contrariwise,
:you can have a story that is internally consistent and logically
:derivable from a set of base premises, but is doled out at an unusual
:pace, making it hard to follow, viz. Lain.
I found the method of delivery in Boogey Pop Phantom to be unique but
confusing - if you've not seen that one (it rotates in the TechTv Anime
Unleashed slot) , the story is told from various people's perspectives
and hopping around a 5 year or so time line .
Lain on the other hand I didn't have too much of a hard time following -
at least until the last episode or two. Even then, while I think I
understood what was shown on the screen, I was left feeling a bit
uncertain about what the implications were of it.
But then, I felt the same way after RahXephon the series and even more
so after RahXephon the movie...
--
<URL: http://wiki.tcl.tk/ > In God we trust.
Even if explicitly stated to the contrary, nothing in this posting
should be construed as representing my employer's opinions.
<URL: mailto:lvi...@gmail.com > <URL: http://www.purl.org/NET/lvirden/ >
Eric Schwartz
> Lain on the other hand I didn't have too much of a hard time following -
> at least until the last episode or two.
Knowing what I know now about it, I suspect watching it again would
lead me to think, "Oh, that's obviously what's going on", where the
first time I was just confused.
> Even then, while I think I understood what was shown on the screen,
> I was left feeling a bit uncertain about what the implications were
> of it.
Once you realize it's na nygreangr havirefr jurer gur ynjf bs culfvpf
nyybj gur Jverq naq Ernyvgl gb pbairetr sebz obgu qverpgvbaf, then it
all makes sense. This I didn't get until the very end, hence my
confusion.
> But then, I felt the same way after RahXephon the series and even more
> so after RahXephon the movie...
Hrm, I guess I'll put that on my list, then. The previews I've seen
of it have been so atmospheric it's almost impossible to tell what
sort of story it is.
-=Eric
--
Come to think of it, there are already a million monkeys on a million
typewriters, and Usenet is NOTHING like Shakespeare.
-- Blair Houghton.
Shez
<kumo...@hotmail.com> said:
> but what exactly does THAT mean about the
>already disturbing-scene where Anthy makes "Chu-Chu" noises
I haven't seen Utena, but "chu-chu" is what Japanese mice say instead of
"squeak squeak".
--
______________________________________________________
My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
______________________________________________________
Take a break at the Last Stop Cafe: http://www.xerez.demon.co.uk/
Reply-to address for email: mailreply AT xerez.demon.co.uk
paranormalized
>paranormalized <cnendabe...@rndeguyvdax.arg> wrote in
>news:pcmqi0t7rq5oasmiv...@4ax.com:
>
>> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 03:22:01 GMT, Blade <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
*snip snip*
>>>Hmm. I like Chu-Chu because he makes perfect and total, beautiful
>>>sense, and I pretty much like the movie for its prettyness and not
>>>much else. But oh well. ;p
>>>
>> I like the fact that, AFAIK, you never see Chu-Chu and Dios together
>> in the same room. ^_~
>>
>> If you have evidence otherwise, I'll accept it, but dangit! It
>> explains *so much*... :p
>
>Not really, but...
>
>
>S
>
>P
>
>O
>
>I
>
>L
>
>E
>
>R
>
>...I don't believe Chu-Chu and Akio are ever together in the same scene.
>Read into that what you will, but what exactly does THAT mean about the
>already disturbing-scene where Anthy makes "Chu-Chu" noises when her and
>Akio are sexxxorzing? ;p
>
Since you left the spoiler space, I guess I can discuss the end, in
all it's Spoiler-ific glory. But I'll add a couple blank lines
anyways...
.
S
P
A
C
E
.
.
.
.
.
Not true- we *do* see Chu-Chu and *Akio* together at least at the very
end scene, where Anthy leaves Akio. In fact, Chu-Chu leaves behind
his little necktie and earring there on the desk, IIRC, which are
miniature copies of Akio's accessories. Make of *that* what you will,
especially under my quirky interpretation. ^_~
Are you not following a.f.u. anymore? That was my other contribution
to the whole "Dios? Real or not?" discussion there a couple months
back. The first, more serious contribution was the idea that Dios
is/was a semi-idependent ethereal entity, not just some adjunct of
Akio. But not necessarily the perfect world-saving 'Prince' that
everyone tells the stories about... more of a summoned spirit, made of
a less perfect design and possessing strangely different motives... he
acts kinda creepy at the end, after all. O_o;;
We had a couple good threads after that discussion. But it's kind of
falling off again...
Blade
news:fq6ti0trof1n3dj1n...@4ax.com:
Quite so. I'd forgotten that; I don't have my Utena DVDs handy, so I
haven't had a chance to watch in awhile.
> Are you not following a.f.u. anymore? That was my other contribution
Nope. Honestly, I barely have time for RAAM these days, and have pretty
much cut every other group of my reading.
> to the whole "Dios? Real or not?" discussion there a couple months
> back. The first, more serious contribution was the idea that Dios
> is/was a semi-idependent ethereal entity, not just some adjunct of
> Akio. But not necessarily the perfect world-saving 'Prince' that
> everyone tells the stories about... more of a summoned spirit, made of
> a less perfect design and possessing strangely different motives... he
> acts kinda creepy at the end, after all. O_o;;
Possible. I'd argue it...but I haven't seen Utena in long enough that I
don't trust my memory. Perhaps another time.
> We had a couple good threads after that discussion. But it's kind of
> falling off again...
Indeed. Well, I will be making one AFU post at the beginning of the month,
as my webpage is getting a major update that may be of interest to fans, so
I'll point them to it.
Aside from the latest chapter of Hybrid Theory, which of course should be
of interest to everybody. ;p
Scott Dubin
> In the faraway land of rec.arts.anime.misc, Blade
> <kumo...@hotmail.com> said:
> > but what exactly does THAT mean about the
> >already disturbing-scene where Anthy makes "Chu-Chu" noises
>
> I haven't seen Utena, but "chu-chu" is what Japanese mice say instead of
> "squeak squeak".
Nope, this was covered in dialogue in Utena.
As per the translation, "Choo choo" is the sound that mice make, Chu
Chu is the name of the Utena mascot character that's a cross between a
mouse and a monkey.
A character, Mickey, calls the mascot Choo choo by accident and is
corrected. (It sounds the same to my ears, actually, but there must
be a subtle difference.)
As for why Anthy says it during sex, my guess is that she was thinking
of Mickey at that moment, or, maybe, having a private joke that she
was playing the weak, innocent mouse when she can often turn around
and be rather preditorial...
It's probably the same reason Anthy drink's Mickey's "milkshake."
Is anything Anthy does obvious?
Oh, and we do see Chu Chu and Akio together in the end of the show.
And during a scene when they're taking a group picture. And during
breakfast a few times.
lvi...@gmail.com
According to Eric Schwartz <emsc...@pobox.com>:
:> But then, I felt the same way after RahXephon the series and even more
:> so after RahXephon the movie...
:
:Hrm, I guess I'll put that on my list, then. The previews I've seen
:of it have been so atmospheric it's almost impossible to tell what
:sort of story it is.
I'd suggest going with the series. If you want to understand the
characters , that's the place to start.
As to what sort of story it is - primarily , it is a giant exoskeleton/robot
battling story, with lost boy trying to find himself, so to speak, sub-theme.
Then there are the love hexagonal aspects (played dramatically, not comedically).
Rick
"Antonio E. Gonzalez" <ante...@aol.complex> wrote in message
news:20040824120303...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> >From: Chibi-Light chibiw...@YUM-SPAM.yahoo.com
> >Date: 8/23/2004 1:41 PM Pacific Standard Time
> >Message-id: <fqlki09aq3sjrp3ti...@4ax.com>
> >
> >On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 22:30:36 +0200, Kurt Bernhard Pruenner
> ><9sjs...@sneakemail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>ru.ig...@usask.ca wrote:
> >>> So to the original poster, if you like Excel, I suspect you won't
> >>> like Lain. If you didn't like Excel, there is a chance you will
> >>> like Lain.
> >>
> >>So what does that make me, then? I like 'em both... o_O;;
> >
> >
>
> Hey, I liked Lain, and *loved* Excel Saga! Though I'll see Lain again
to
> see just what I missed; there really does seem to be something in there .
.
>
> Aw hell, it's not like I don't mind being called a "nutter"; I find my
> mental instability to part of what makes me such an individual!
>
> >"Those that threaten us and kill innocents around the
> > world do not need to be treated more sensitively,
> > they need to be destroyed" - Vice President Cheney
> >
>
> "Woa, did he just call the President a pussy?!"
>
>
> - Vaughner
>
You forgot the word intentionally.
Rick
"Kurt Bernhard Pruenner" <9sjs...@sneakemail.com> wrote in message
news:412C6320...@njuuus.desdemona.ssw.uni-linz.ac.at...
Half the time I couldn't figure out the 3-D pictures and I'm still trying to
figure out the ending of lain. Though she did look real cute in that bear
outfit in the beginning.
Chibi-Light
wrote:
>> "Woa, did he just call the President a pussy?!"
>>
>>
>> - Vaughner
>>
>You forgot the word intentionally.
I hate to disapoint both of you, but it was in responce to John Kerry.
Aka, mr fuckwad slime ball hypocrite fuckstain of the universe....
or something like that.
CL
--
Ethan Hammond
>
> >You forgot the word intentionally.
>
> I hate to disapoint both of you, but it was in responce to John Kerry.
>
> Aka, mr fuckwad slime ball hypocrite fuckstain of the universe....
>
> or something like that.
I remember when you claimed to be a moderate independent!!!!
Like one or two years ago. *nods nods*
--
All Purpose Cultural Randomness
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/apcr/index.html
Antonio E. Gonzalez
>Date: 8/27/2004 10:51 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <5g70j0dp8k269aucc...@4ax.com>
>
>On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:38:09 -0400, "Rick" <sigm...@yahoo.comxxx>
>wrote:
>
>>> "Woa, did he just call the President a pussy?!"
>>>
>>>
>>> - Vaughner
>>>
>>You forgot the word intentionally.
>
>I hate to disapoint both of you, but it was in responce to John Kerry.
>
Errr, yyyeah . . . don't matter. You insult one person who says "that term"
(ignoring the rest of a comprehensive speech), you insult everyone who said it;
including when his guy said it, and even when he *himself* said it months
before! His not being aware of it speaks volumes . . .
- Vaughner
- Gundam Seed: Where the boys are pretty, and the girls take advantage of it .
. . and them!
Antonio E. Gonzalez
>Date: 8/27/2004 10:51 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <5g70j0dp8k269aucc...@4ax.com>
>
>wrote:
>
>>> "Woa, did he just call the President a pussy?!"
>>>
>>>
>>> - Vaughner
>>>
>>You forgot the word intentionally.
>
>I hate to disapoint both of you, but it was in responce to John Kerry.
>
Errr, yyyeah . . . don't matter. You insult one person who says "that term"
(ignoring the rest of a comprehensive speech), you insult everyone who said it;
including when his guy said it, and even when he *himself* said it months
before! His not being aware of it speaks volumes . . .
>Aka, mr fuckwad slime ball hypocrite fuckstain of the universe....
>
>or something like that.
>
*snort*
Oh, the irony of saying that about anyone, then quoting Dick Cheney!
Along those lines: What *did* they tell you at the Army (or whatever you
branch of choice) Recruitment Center when they turned you down? You *have*
applied for the military, right? (your past post would heavily imply that kind
of leaning)
>CL
>--
>"Those that threaten us and kill innocents around the
> world do not need to be treated more sensitively,
> they need to be destroyed" - Vice President Cheney
Huhuh, huh . . . huhuh! Dumbass . . .
Antonio E. Gonzalez
>Date: 8/28/2004 12:48 AM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <sNWXc.525198$Gx4.5...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
>
>"Chibi-Light" <chibiw...@YUM-SPAM.yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >You forgot the word intentionally.
>>
>> I hate to disapoint both of you, but it was in responce to John Kerry.
>>
>> Aka, mr fuckwad slime ball hypocrite fuckstain of the universe....
>>
>> or something like that.
>
>I remember when you claimed to be a moderate independent!!!!
>Like one or two years ago. *nods nods*
>
He's obviously a flip-flopper! *nods*
Chibi-Light
Gonzalez) wrote:
>>From: "Ethan Hammond" esha...@worldnet.att.net
>>Date: 8/28/2004 12:48 AM Pacific Standard Time
>>Message-id: <sNWXc.525198$Gx4.5...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
>>
>>"Chibi-Light" <chibiw...@YUM-SPAM.yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> >You forgot the word intentionally.
>>>
>>> I hate to disapoint both of you, but it was in responce to John Kerry.
>>>
>>> Aka, mr fuckwad slime ball hypocrite fuckstain of the universe....
>>>
>>> or something like that.
>>
>>I remember when you claimed to be a moderate independent!!!!
>>Like one or two years ago. *nods nods*
>>
>
> He's obviously a flip-flopper! *nods*
Na, more of a gradual slide towards the dark side...
Chibi-Light
Gonzalez) wrote:
> Huhuh, huh . . . huhuh! Dumbass . . .
Rant and rave as you like, some git on usenet isn't going to change my
opinion nor are my ravings going to change his. This is definetly a
case of agree to disagree. *nod*
Scott Dubin
Ikuhara stated that Chuchu wears the necktie because Anthy likes Akio,
and takes it off when she no longer does.
Ethan Hammond
> opinion nor are my ravings going to change his. This is definetly a
> case of agree to disagree. *nod*
Luckily I am not a git!!!! Now change your opinion, CHANGE IT!!!!
*SHAKES FIST*
Antonio E. Gonzalez
>Date: 8/28/2004 8:44 PM Pacific Standard Time
>Message-id: <8ek2j01cq29p84oli...@4ax.com>
>
>On 28 Aug 2004 21:42:13 GMT, ante...@aol.complex (Antonio E.
>Gonzalez) wrote:
>
>> Huhuh, huh . . . huhuh! Dumbass . . .
>
>Rant and rave as you like, some git on usenet isn't going to change my
>opinion nor are my ravings going to change his. This is definetly a
>case of agree to disagree. *nod*
>
Oh, it don't matter; I just like calling bullshit where I see it, and this is
AAA stuff! (if not BS, it's certainly beyond stupid considering who else had
said it)
Where there be bullshit, I be there to call it! *shakes fist*
>CL
>--
>"Those that threaten us and kill innocents around the
> world do not need to be treated more sensitively,
> they need to be destroyed" - Vice President Cheney
>
Huhuh, huh . . . huhuh . . . dumbass . . .
paranormalized
Gonzalez) wrote:
>>From: Chibi-Light chibiw...@YUM-SPAM.yahoo.com
*snip snip*
>>CL
>>--
>>"Those that threaten us and kill innocents around the
>> world do not need to be treated more sensitively,
>> they need to be destroyed" - Vice President Cheney
>>
>
> Huhuh, huh . . . huhuh . . . dumbass . . .
>
Sigh. At least Chibi is in a lot of people's killfiles *already*.
Any idiot that sticks *any* politician's recent quote into their .sig
in a Presidential election year is coming damned close to trolling...
Chibi, I stuck up for you once or twice in the past, (in full honesty,
it was because I confused you with Chika. Despite gender differences,
age differences... O_o) but can't you see how stupid this damnable
.sig is? We already have the Murdock vs. Moore media wars, why expand
their idiocy and vitriol to Usenet? Gah.... ~_~
Quoting Cheney/Edward/Bush/Kerry right now shows *worse* taste and
wisdom than any goofball Beavis&Butthead response. Because quotes of
the first category attempt to use intellectualism to disguise their
profound lack of smarts, while the second is at least *honestly*
stupid in their pointless agression. :)
Quite frankly, the world would be better off if everyone would just
agree that we're all idiots, in the end. I'd threaten to finally
killfile you if you don't modify your .sig, but really, those threats
never work well, so I'd just be making my idiocy *more* apparent. ^_~
Huh. I realized once more how miserably little this is going to affect
you. I can't stop ELL, I can't stop you, and I just wasted twenty+
minutes to do absolutely nothing at all...
Kick ass. We're busy totally disproving the redeeming value,
social,intellectual,and moral, of Usenet. Flame wars are damned cool
that way. ^_^
(please *say* you're considering removing said .sig until the recounts
are over, at least? I need the gentle social lies, sometimes.;) )
Jonathan Fisher
I'm Ok, I'm an Idiot. And So are You. :P
Ethan Hammond
>
> Sigh. At least Chibi is in a lot of people's killfiles *already*.
> Any idiot that sticks *any* politician's recent quote into their .sig
> in a Presidential election year is coming damned close to trolling...
People have the freedom to quote or not quote whatever they
want. Chibi may be doing it to get a reaction, but I have no idea
if he is or not.
> Chibi, I stuck up for you once or twice in the past, (in full honesty,
> it was because I confused you with Chika. Despite gender differences,
> age differences... O_o)
Actually, despite the popular misconception Chika is actually male.
Not that he minds being mistaken for female IIRC. I think Chika
is about as old as I am, which means he is about as old as Chibi
is. The problem as I see it is that Chika is Spanish slang for cute
girl or some such.
Chibi-Light
<cnendabe...@rndeguyvdax.arg> wrote:
*snippy snippy*
>(please *say* you're considering removing said .sig until the recounts
>are over, at least? I need the gentle social lies, sometimes.;) )
*laugh* I actually liked your post. Yout told me off without being a
jerk about it. Consider your request granted. ^_^
CL
--
"Quite frankly, the world would be better off if everyone
would just agree that we're all idiots, in the end."
-paranormalized
Chibi-Light
<esha...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>People have the freedom to quote or not quote whatever they
>want. Chibi may be doing it to get a reaction, but I have no idea
>if he is or not.
Na, I was doing it cause I hate John Kerry and I think Dick Cheney is
fuckin' kick ass. That's all. I acutally like Cheney better than
Bush just cause I like the idea of a bitch old white guy runnin' the
White House behind the scenes. Pretty funny actually.
>Actually, despite the popular misconception Chika is actually male.
>Not that he minds being mistaken for female IIRC. I think Chika
>is about as old as I am, which means he is about as old as Chibi
>is. The problem as I see it is that Chika is Spanish slang for cute
>girl or some such.
And don't forget I don't mind being mistaken for female either.
CL
--
"Quite frankly, the world would be better off if everyone
would just agree that we're all idiots, in the end."
-paranormalized
Scott Dubin
> arro...@green.rahul.net (Ken Arromdee) wrote in
> news:cgiv00$hrl$2...@blue.rahul.net:
>
> > In article <412cde98$0$19710$61fe...@news.rcn.com>,
> > Derek Janssen <dja...@rcn.com> wrote:
> >>> It, too, rarely explains things. And it's got a lot of apparently
> >>> confusing or inane stuff that has a definite meaning behind it that
> >>> just wasn't explained with a five minute lecture. (Quick: How come
> >>> Ryouko attacks Tenchi in the first episode, yet it's later revealed
> >>> that she was aware of his presence for years?)
> >>If you're still trying to come up with rational logical A->B
> >>explanations of why things happen from one TM!-OAV episode to the
> >>next, well, NOW you know why some of us watch the TV version instead.
> >
> > There's a perfectly rational explanation for what I just pointed out:
> > Ryouko was teasing Tenchi, and wouldn't really hurt him except by
> > accident or in a fit of thoughtless anger (i.e. when called a
> > monster).
>
> Except for that part where several times she launched deadly attacks at
> where she THOUGHT he was but in fact wasn't sure of his location, of
> course.
>
> Nor is this "teasing" really in line with anything she does later, and it
> doesn't make sense in light of what her supposed experiences were,
> either.
How do you know she wasn't playing dumb?
It might not have been the intention at the time, but it still makes
sense well enough.
Scott Dubin
> Derek Janssen wrote:
> >>> I don't think it's as easy as you say. There has to be some substance
> >>> there or people can't come up with anything.
> >>
> >> You're seriously underestimating people's powers of imagination.
> >
> >
> > That's exactly what they said about those old Magic Eye 3-D pictures.
> >
> > Of which Lain could be considered the TV/anime equivalent.
>
> there, people will see the same thing. If not, they'll come up with
> different things unless they've been told what to expect.
>
> In terms of anime series, if it's really well-planned with everything
> wrapping up neatly when all details are taken into account, there
> there should not be many conflicting interpretations and everyone
> should be able to agree on a single one relatively quickly.
No, not necessarily, because in Utena, the Director intentionally uses
mixed metaphor.
The villian, Akio, represents the Devil, as his name is derived from.
He is the fallen angel, the anti-christ, a supernatural magical force
for evil.
Akio also represents a man who lost his childhood idealism (thus
became fallen in a real world sense) and became the chairman of a
school so he could have sex with young boys and girls and make tons of
money while morning his lost youth and reexperiencing it through sex
with children.
It's magical realism, it's metaphorical, it ties the real world with
the mundane. Fans will argue about what's going on for that reason.
Some arge that there is no magic in the show, just childish fantasy
and metaphor, taking an extreme example. Some will argue all the
magic is real. They're both correct.
The shadow theater girls, are, for example, both bizarre alien
creatures pulled from the human collective unconscous and also the
school's theater club. There's lots of evidence for both, because its
magical realism. And, of course, in real life, theater does tie into
collective culture and unconscousness, so in a sense, the metaphor is
true.
And in a sense, an adult who lost his youthful idealism is a fallen
angel.
And you clearly have no experience in criticism of cannon approved
literature. There are always published crackpots who will say all
sorts of stupid shit about any work, no matter how clear it could be.
Utena's a carefully constructed, beautiful show. Unlike Eva, which is
clearly a bunch of stuff thrown together, pretentious but lacking
coherence.
Lain is in the Utena camp. Each episode is labeled as a Layer. Layer
1, layer, 2 etc. This is both a reference to computer network design
and a reference to the fact that Lain presents a ton of mysteries,
conspiracies and odd goings on. Each episode peels away a new layer
of the goings on and provides more information.
In episode 1, we think Lain is a shy but normal girl surrounded by
weirdness.
In episode 2 we realise Lain is just as weird as anything else.
By episode 10 or so we know exactly how Lain was created and why she
is as she is.
In the final episode we learn the spiritual meaning behind it all, and
a conspiracy behind the conspiracy. In the final episode we know all
the pieces of the puzzle. It's a beautifully crafted, brilliant show.
Chika
paranormalized <cnendabe...@rndeguyvdax.arg> wrote:
> Chibi, I stuck up for you once or twice in the past, (in full honesty,
> it was because I confused you with Chika. Despite gender differences,
> age differences... O_o) but can't you see how stupid this damnable
> .sig is? We already have the Murdock vs. Moore media wars, why expand
> their idiocy and vitriol to Usenet? Gah.... ~_~
Eh? Confused me? What? What? O.o
--
//\ // Chika <zvl...@penfuarg.bet.hx. - ROT13>
// \// The second ZFC coming <crashnet.org.uk/zedeffcee>
... Make Headlines..use a corduroy pillow....
Rick
"Antonio E. Gonzalez" <ante...@aol.complex> wrote in message
> >From: "Ethan Hammond" esha...@worldnet.att.net
> >Date: 8/28/2004 12:48 AM Pacific Standard Time
> >Message-id: <sNWXc.525198$Gx4.5...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>
> >
> >"Chibi-Light" <chibiw...@YUM-SPAM.yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >>
> >> >You forgot the word intentionally.
> >>
> >> I hate to disapoint both of you, but it was in responce to John Kerry.
> >>
> >> Aka, mr fuckwad slime ball hypocrite fuckstain of the universe....
> >>
> >> or something like that.
> >
> >I remember when you claimed to be a moderate independent!!!!
> >Like one or two years ago. *nods nods*
> >
>
> He's obviously a flip-flopper! *nods*
>
>
>
Definition of a conservative : A liberal who was just robbed.
Blade
news:887734a2.0408...@posting.google.com:
By talking to herself when Tenchi couldn't hear her?
So, basically, you think she's not a psycho, but merely insane?
> It might not have been the intention at the time, but it still makes
> sense well enough.
No, it really doesn't.