Time for a laugh...
Captain Nerd
So, if anyone wants a laugh at my expense (not that you need an
excuse) check out my pitiful attempts at fan art. Before this
fall it had been 20 years since I took brush and paint and attempted
to make something like a picture. I managed to make a fairly okay
painting of Fuu from the closing credits of Samurai Champloo, and
when I displayed it at the Art Show at AnimeUSA, lo and behold,
some visually impaired fellow bought the durn thing. Well, it may
have been his seeing eye dog that made the bid, but whatever. So,
I figured I'd try it again, and see if I could inflict my eye-
searing "art" on other poor unsuspecting anime fans. If you
go to my webpage, you should be safe, because the camera melted
before the full horror could be captured in JPEG form, and only
mild nausea may be induced, along with a slight urge to commit
suicide.
(... abandon hope, ye who click here ...)
http://www.nerdwatch.com
Cap.
--
Since 1989, recycling old jokes, cliches, and bad puns, one Usenet
post at a time!
Operation: Nerdwatch http://www.nerdwatch.com
Only email with "TO_CAP" somewhere in the subject has a chance of being read
Area88
Urd is awesome.
You captured the scenery nicely and adapted the character design of Urd
in to your own style.
Awesome Stuff!
You inspired me to get out my paints and brush, i've always wanted to
paint a scene from Five Star Stories.
Dave Watson
> So, if anyone wants a laugh at my expense (not that you need an
> excuse) check out my pitiful attempts at fan art.
Jesus, man, and I thought I was hard on myself sometimes. Cut that shit
out. This is nice work; keep it up.
--
Dave Watson, Severed Heads Liberation Front (Stretcher CD-R--sevcom.com)
Frezier Balzoff (aka Ottawa), Ontario, Canada Email--shlf[at]ncf[dot]ca
(Remember to remove the spamtrap word before E-mailing a reply.)
My music and anime webpage: http://eyevocal.ottawa-anime.org/
Yvette Watson, 1942-2002--You will be greatly missed and always loved.
Craig Hall, 1975-2005--Good friend and kindred wild spirit.
Kill worms!! http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/
Captain Nerd
Dave Watson <aj...@fuspamma.freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
> Captain Nerd wrote:
> > So, if anyone wants a laugh at my expense (not that you need an
> > excuse) check out my pitiful attempts at fan art.
> [...]
> > (... abandon hope, ye who click here ...)
> > http://www.nerdwatch.com
>
> Jesus, man, and I thought I was hard on myself sometimes. Cut that shit
> out. This is nice work; keep it up.
Well, I appreciate it, it's just that there are parts of the
painting that I'm not happy with, but I'm not skilled enough
to fix without making it worse. It's irksome, but I'm glad
I managed to distract folks with the parts that worked out
well. I plan to start another one sometime after my Japanese
class ends for the semester, and do one more in January. I'll
post links when (if) I get more done.
Captain Nerd
"Area88" <gunc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> You must have very high expectations because i think that fan art of
> Urd is awesome.
>
> You captured the scenery nicely and adapted the character design of Urd
> in to your own style.
>
> Awesome Stuff!
Well, I try to set my bar high, because I want to treat the subject
with respect, and try to do things right ("right" being subjective
of course). It irritates me when I screw up, and there are places
where I felt I could do much better on this painting, but I lack
the skills to fix them without screwing the whole thing up worse.
I never had the time or money for courses where I could learn
techniques that would help, so I have to finally say "stop" when
I reach the point of diminishing returns. "Good enough" is never
good enough, but I have to live with it. >___<
> You inspired me to get out my paints and brush, i've always wanted to
> paint a scene from Five Star Stories.
One of the things that has been disappointing about art shows at
local anime cons has been the decreasing numbers of art works
that people are displaying, and the appearance of "regulars" at
them. This year one of the people running the art show at AnimeUSA
said that she had only half of the number of pieces that were shown
just a year ago. Otakon was pretty large, but even there they
only filled about 2/3 the space. One of the things that got me to
start again was seeing the same prints everywhere, and fewer and
fewer original works. I've bought a piece or two at just about
every show I've been to the past few years, but the selection is
shrinking, and that makes me sad. Some of the things I bought
weren't necessarily the best, skill-wise, but you could tell that
the artists cared about their subjects, and that came out in their
works. It would be good if I could kick-start folks into doing
more, even if I have to be the bad example to do it. ^======^
So, if you feel like painting, go for it! It would be awesome
if you could show us when you get done, too!
arandomguy...@yahoo.com
Captain Nerd wrote:
> In article <1164725871....@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> "Area88" <gunc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> excuse) check out my pitiful attempts at fan art.
>
Ugh... look at all these people giving you respect.... Well, seeing as
no one else will I guess I'll give it a good laugh.
BBWWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
*keels over laughing and falls out of chair*
ah~, that was good.
Well, in all honesty you don't need to be modest about it man. If I
remember correctly, you got some pretty good money out of it from the
art show, and I've seen worse that was put up for display. As I
think about it, between the last 4 different conventions I gone to I
think I've only seen like, 3 paintings (including yours). Paintings
I would assume require a certain skill to make seeing as you don't do
any digital touchup, which just about anyone could do. So even if it
doesn't look as good as a 3D animation or whatever on the other side
of the art show room, the work displays your level as an artist seeing
as it is a pure work by itself without any use of modern technology
("real" art).
Er....
............never mind, actually,, just disregard what I said.
Somehow laughing like you told us to just feels more,, fun.
*starts laughing again and passes out from to much*
Captain Nerd
arandomguy...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Captain Nerd wrote:
> > In article <1164725871....@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > "Area88" <gunc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >So, if anyone wants a laugh at my expense (not that you need an
> > excuse) check out my pitiful attempts at fan art.
> >
>
> Ugh... look at all these people giving you respect.... Well, seeing as
> no one else will I guess I'll give it a good laugh.
> BBWWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>
> *keels over laughing and falls out of chair*
>
> ah~, that was good.
Then my work here is done! ^======^
> Well, in all honesty you don't need to be modest about it man. If I
> remember correctly, you got some pretty good money out of it from the
> art show, and I've seen worse that was put up for display. As I
> think about it, between the last 4 different conventions I gone to I
> think I've only seen like, 3 paintings (including yours). Paintings
> I would assume require a certain skill to make seeing as you don't do
> any digital touchup, which just about anyone could do. So even if it
> doesn't look as good as a 3D animation or whatever on the other side
> of the art show room, the work displays your level as an artist seeing
> as it is a pure work by itself without any use of modern technology
> ("real" art).
Yeah, Photoshop just feels like cheating, somehow...
> Er....
> ............never mind, actually,, just disregard what I said.
> Somehow laughing like you told us to just feels more,, fun.
>
> *starts laughing again and passes out from to much*
Oh, stop, you're too kind, I'll be here all week, try the veal,
and be sure to tip your waitress, she's not here for the jokes!
elsie
"Captain Nerd" <cpt...@nerdwatch.com> wrote in message
news:cptnerd-743D95...@news.giganews.com...
>
> So, if anyone wants a laugh at my expense (not that you need an
> excuse) check out my pitiful attempts at fan art. Before this
> fall it had been 20 years since I took brush and paint and attempted
> to make something like a picture. I managed to make a fairly okay
> painting of Fuu from the closing credits of Samurai Champloo, and
> when I displayed it at the Art Show at AnimeUSA, lo and behold,
> some visually impaired fellow bought the durn thing. Well, it may
> have been his seeing eye dog that made the bid, but whatever. So,
> I figured I'd try it again, and see if I could inflict my eye-
> searing "art" on other poor unsuspecting anime fans. If you
> go to my webpage, you should be safe, because the camera melted
> before the full horror could be captured in JPEG form, and only
> mild nausea may be induced, along with a slight urge to commit
> suicide.
>
> (... abandon hope, ye who click here ...)
> http://www.nerdwatch.com
>
> Cap.
>
laurie
Phil Yff
> So, if anyone wants a laugh at my expense (not that you need an
> excuse) check out my pitiful attempts at fan art.
You deprived me of a good laugh. I was impressed. Katsucon used to be one
of the conventions I'd go to. Too bad I can't go this year.
Mata ato de,
Phil Yff
Captain Nerd
"elsie" <lcub...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> "Captain Nerd" <cpt...@nerdwatch.com> wrote in message
> news:cptnerd-743D95...@news.giganews.com...
> > (... abandon hope, ye who click here ...)
> > http://www.nerdwatch.com
> >
> > Cap.
> >
> It looks really good, and I also enjoyed your Cumberland Gap video.
Thanks, that video was shot by my little Samsung digital still
camera in video mode. I'm amazed at how good the video quality
is with the small digital still cameras. Much more convenient
for quick videos than even my digital camcorder and cheaper to
boot.
I miss the mountains, sometimes...
Captain Nerd
Phil Yff <phil...@adelphia.net> wrote:
Well, shoot. It would have been neat to meet another r.a.a.m.
denizen in person, but such is life. Katsucon was pretty good
last year, after they moved to the Omni Shoreham down in DC.
I hated that they moved out of Crystal City, since I only live
a mile or so away, but they needed the room, and the Shoreham
is a nice place.
Maybe next year? Oh, are you going to Nippon2007, Worldcon?
I'll be there, if all works out right. Seems like a good place
to have a r.a.a.m. meetup.
Aje RavenStar
"Dave Watson" <aj...@fuspamma.freenet.carleton.ca> wrote in message
news:ekhkae$qua$1...@theodyn.ncf.ca...
> Captain Nerd wrote:
>> So, if anyone wants a laugh at my expense (not that you need an
>> excuse) check out my pitiful attempts at fan art.
> [...]
>> (... abandon hope, ye who click here ...)
>> http://www.nerdwatch.com
>
> Jesus, man, and I thought I was hard on myself sometimes. Cut that shit
> out. This is nice work; keep it up.
What David said. Nicely done.
Aje RavenStar
> In article <ekhkae$qua$1...@theodyn.ncf.ca>,
> Dave Watson <aj...@fuspamma.freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
>
>> Captain Nerd wrote:
>> > So, if anyone wants a laugh at my expense (not that you need an
>> > excuse) check out my pitiful attempts at fan art.
>> [...]
>> > (... abandon hope, ye who click here ...)
>> > http://www.nerdwatch.com
>>
>> Jesus, man, and I thought I was hard on myself sometimes. Cut that shit
>> out. This is nice work; keep it up.
>
> Well, I appreciate it, it's just that there are parts of the
> painting that I'm not happy with, but I'm not skilled enough
> to fix without making it worse. It's irksome, but I'm glad
> I managed to distract folks with the parts that worked out
> well. I plan to start another one sometime after my Japanese
> class ends for the semester, and do one more in January. I'll
> post links when (if) I get more done.
>
> Cap.
>
Understandable, but you can fix those things the next go round (course,
there will be new problems, always are, but that's the learning curve for
you). Don't lose sight that you were working in a different medium than a
color cel, eh?
Abraham Evangelista
>
> So, if anyone wants a laugh at my expense (not that you need an
> excuse) check out my pitiful attempts at fan art. Before this
> fall it had been 20 years since I took brush and paint and attempted
> to make something like a picture. I managed to make a fairly okay
> painting of Fuu from the closing credits of Samurai Champloo, and
> when I displayed it at the Art Show at AnimeUSA, lo and behold,
> some visually impaired fellow bought the durn thing. Well, it may
> have been his seeing eye dog that made the bid, but whatever. So,
> I figured I'd try it again, and see if I could inflict my eye-
> searing "art" on other poor unsuspecting anime fans. If you
> go to my webpage, you should be safe, because the camera melted
> before the full horror could be captured in JPEG form, and only
> mild nausea may be induced, along with a slight urge to commit
> suicide.
Not shabby at all! I think you're too harsh on the work. Your form
is just fine on Fuu. It's just that anime work tends to be sharp-edge
and solid color, both of which are somewhat antithetical to
traditional painting techniques.
If the Fuu is anything to judge on, you've already got a handle on
traditional chiaroscuro techniques, proper application of light
source, and gradients/shading.
It's just that these techniques often don't translate well to anime
styled art. :-(
The Urd fairs even better in some ways. Since she isn't a full side
profile, you have a little more room to play with shading techniques.
That it's a night scene also helps alleviate the difficulty that came
with that sunset depicted in Fuu's portrait.
The downside is that Fujishima's work is very line intensive. Part of
the attraction of his art is the clean line work, which of course is
difficult to duplicate with brush and canvas. More noticeable is the
lighting on Urd. The moonlight is coming in from the ocean, but Urd's
face is still highlighted. She'd have to be orthagonal to the moon's
facing to get that sort of a highlight. Also, the face seems a little
bit flat, but that could be just your photograph... you're using a
flash, aren't you? (Insert Abe's stock rant about the necessity of
tripods, and the evils of flash here.) And how far away are you from
the canvas? If you're gonna use the flash, step back as far as you
can, then zoom in.
I'm not convinced about the hair, but lord knows that's the most
difficult part to get right. At the very least, I can't think of a
better way to do it that would work well with this medium. To your
credit, you get the you got the shadow RIGHT! He didn't. The
original has a highlight on her left breast, which definately
shouldn't be there. (As if there's any need to emphasize Urd's
already generous bust!)
For the most part the proportions match the original well. The
original art has her elbows a little bit higher up, with the joint
itself being a bit better defined. More pleasing from an anime
standpoint, but not necessarily anatomically correct. The left arm
seems a little thicker than the right arm, but that's compounded by
the angles involved. The lower left in particular is a good bit
thicker than the original picture.
Maybe it's the anatomy issues that are causing your discomfort. Anime
proportions are always waaaaaay off what you'd expect in a proper
portrait. I imagine that in painting, the temptation is to correct
these anotomical anomalies, but this will of course introduce the
mental disconnect of expecting anime conventions, and getting
realistic proprotions.
Ya know, I'd be willing to pay at least $50 to see a 3/4 portrait
upper body close-up of Urd re-interpreted in a realistic style. :-)
That aside, this is NOT AT ALL bad work. Given the limitations of the
medium, and how long it's been since you've last painted, this is
actually quite good. Certainly nothing to be ashamed of.
And now for some technical questions:
What is your paint? Acrylic? Oil? Some unspeakable substance that
we must never learn of?
What size is the canvas?
What material is the canvas?
What size are your brushes?
How much time did it take?
--
"Lyrical Tokarev! Kill them All!" - Touge Chan
Abraham Evangelista
Captain Nerd
Abraham Evangelista <da...@verizon.net> wrote:
> Not shabby at all! I think you're too harsh on the work. Your form
> is just fine on Fuu. It's just that anime work tends to be sharp-edge
> and solid color, both of which are somewhat antithetical to
> traditional painting techniques.
>
> If the Fuu is anything to judge on, you've already got a handle on
> traditional chiaroscuro techniques, proper application of light
> source, and gradients/shading.
>
> It's just that these techniques often don't translate well to anime
> styled art. :-(
Thanks, the interesting thing and what drew me to the subject
is, if you watch the closing credits to Samurai Champloo, you
see Fuu at sunset on the beach, and when the scene switches to
the one I tried to duplicate, the shading is very gradual and
more realistic. The pose and the expression on her face were
also compelling.
> The Urd fairs even better in some ways. Since she isn't a full side
> profile, you have a little more room to play with shading techniques.
> That it's a night scene also helps alleviate the difficulty that came
> with that sunset depicted in Fuu's portrait.
>
> The downside is that Fujishima's work is very line intensive. Part of
> the attraction of his art is the clean line work, which of course is
> difficult to duplicate with brush and canvas. More noticeable is the
> lighting on Urd. The moonlight is coming in from the ocean, but Urd's
> face is still highlighted. She'd have to be orthagonal to the moon's
> facing to get that sort of a highlight. Also, the face seems a little
> bit flat, but that could be just your photograph... you're using a
> flash, aren't you? (Insert Abe's stock rant about the necessity of
> tripods, and the evils of flash here.) And how far away are you from
> the canvas? If you're gonna use the flash, step back as far as you
> can, then zoom in.
I tried to duplicate the lighting at first, but that led to a face
that was too dark to see details, and that frustrated me. Part
of that has to do with the acrylic paint, which absorbs light, and
which makes it hard to get a good color match (for me, anyway).
I wanted a picture that would still look good in lower light, and
so I over-lit her face. I hope no one revokes my artistic license
over it...
I photographed it with my little 4MegaPix camera, from about 2 or
2 1/2 feet away. I already had light on the painting, but the flash
went off anyway, and I didn't have enough control over the
timing, exposure, etc. to fix things. And the only zoom is digital,
which I've never gotten to work well. I'm not that good a cameraman
either...
>
> I'm not convinced about the hair, but lord knows that's the most
> difficult part to get right. At the very least, I can't think of a
> better way to do it that would work well with this medium. To your
> credit, you get the you got the shadow RIGHT! He didn't. The
> original has a highlight on her left breast, which definately
> shouldn't be there. (As if there's any need to emphasize Urd's
> already generous bust!)
My shadows are better, but still not really good, I sweated over
that aspect over and over.
> For the most part the proportions match the original well. The
> original art has her elbows a little bit higher up, with the joint
> itself being a bit better defined. More pleasing from an anime
> standpoint, but not necessarily anatomically correct. The left arm
> seems a little thicker than the right arm, but that's compounded by
> the angles involved. The lower left in particular is a good bit
> thicker than the original picture.
And I have a devil of a time with hands. I never could do hands
properly. I debated putting one had behind a convenient rock,
and drawing her left arm with her hand behind her leg.
> Maybe it's the anatomy issues that are causing your discomfort. Anime
> proportions are always waaaaaay off what you'd expect in a proper
> portrait. I imagine that in painting, the temptation is to correct
> these anotomical anomalies, but this will of course introduce the
> mental disconnect of expecting anime conventions, and getting
> realistic proprotions.
I think it is a disjoint between realism and anime. My original
paint sketch had her right leg extend even further, but I fixed
that, at least. I really admire Fujishima's line work, especially
in the later manga. He had some troubles in the early manga with
proportions, which doesn't make me feel too bad. Part of my
problem is also a lack of knowing techniques. I have a rough
idea of anatomy, but not in the methods of recreating it in two
dimensions. To try to duplicate an artistically exaggerated
anatomy with that lack of skill, well, cognitive dissonance is
a mild term for it.
> Ya know, I'd be willing to pay at least $50 to see a 3/4 portrait
> upper body close-up of Urd re-interpreted in a realistic style. :-)
I would too, for that matter... ^=====^
> That aside, this is NOT AT ALL bad work. Given the limitations of the
> medium, and how long it's been since you've last painted, this is
> actually quite good. Certainly nothing to be ashamed of.
>
> And now for some technical questions:
>
> What is your paint? Acrylic? Oil? Some unspeakable substance that
> we must never learn of?
Just some glowing substance found in a meteor ( it was acrylic,
Liquitex brand )
> What size is the canvas?
12 inch x 16 inch (30.5 cm x 40.6 cm for our foreign readers ^_^)
>
> What material is the canvas?
Its some kind of acrylic-primed canvas stretched on cardboard,
made by Fredrix.
> What size are your brushes?
Urm, does a "number 4 filbert" mean anything to you? I have a
bunch of filberts, number 4 and 10, a 3/4 oval, a number 2
shader, a 1/8 dagger, a number 1 fan (which I used for the hair)
and some so old the markings are worn off. About a dozen in all.
> How much time did it take?
That's the interesting thing, this is the fastest I've ever done
a painting, I started the Monday before Thanksgiving, and finished
this past Sunday. I probably spent about 8 hours each day on average.
I tended to lose track of time, though, so it may have been more
per day.
I got motivated after AnimeUSA, and right now I'm twitching to get
started on the next painting, but I have Japanese tests to study
for (finals are in two weeks), a job search to continue, and a
side programming task for a friend. But the motivation is still
there, like a craving that won't be denied for long...
( did I mention the paint was a glowing substance from a meteor?
^======^ )
obbz...@yahoo.com
Captain Nerd wrote:
> I figured I'd try it again,
Noone cares
Captain Nerd
"Aje RavenStar" <whine...@houston.rr.com> wrote:
Oh, yeah, it is definitely different, and a lot harder. But part
of me is excited by the challenge, which fortunately is stronger
than the part of me that gets depressed by failure...
^====^
Captain Nerd
"Aje RavenStar" <whine...@houston.rr.com> wrote:
Thanks, I'll keep trying. It's times like these that I wish I didn't
have to work, and could spend all my time painting so I could get
better.
Like I wrote in another part of the thread, I wish more people could
get into making fan art, it is very therapeutic and art shows could
use more support.
Captain Nerd
obbz...@yahoo.com wrote:
What's the matter, given up on crossposting to hell and back?
Go away.
Abraham Evangelista
<cpt...@nerdwatch.com> wrote:
>In article <2dupm2durb1i5ul6s...@4ax.com>,
> Abraham Evangelista <da...@verizon.net> wrote:
<snip>
> Thanks, the interesting thing and what drew me to the subject
> is, if you watch the closing credits to Samurai Champloo, you
> see Fuu at sunset on the beach, and when the scene switches to
> the one I tried to duplicate, the shading is very gradual and
> more realistic. The pose and the expression on her face were
> also compelling.
It really is a nice scene, isn't it? She just sorta makes the scene
wisftul. Also I really do love what you did there with the sky.
<snip>
> I tried to duplicate the lighting at first, but that led to a face
> that was too dark to see details, and that frustrated me. Part
To be fair, the original work is pretty bad in that respect.
> of that has to do with the acrylic paint, which absorbs light, and
> which makes it hard to get a good color match (for me, anyway).
It's entirely possible to thin and mix acrylic to the correct
consistency to allow for transparancy effects, and layered blending,
if that's your concern. The devil is in the application of it! Thin
coats are by far the best, but it can be maddening to wait between the
applications. I used to use similar thin coat acylic layering to
approximate blending in my model building days. 10 or 12 applications
wasn't at all unheard of.
> I wanted a picture that would still look good in lower light, and
> so I over-lit her face. I hope no one revokes my artistic license
> over it...
Your painting, your rules! :-) Really it's more a question of
composition, which you didn't decide anyway.
When using the moon as a backdrop, it can't be the primary light
source. There needs to be another logical source of light, or you
lose your highlights. I suspect this is why we see bonfires painted
onto so many beaches. ;-)
> I photographed it with my little 4MegaPix camera, from about 2 or
> 2 1/2 feet away. I already had light on the painting, but the flash
> went off anyway, and I didn't have enough control over the
> timing, exposure, etc. to fix things. And the only zoom is digital,
> which I've never gotten to work well. I'm not that good a cameraman
> either...
Manual mode, and Tripod. :-) But really, that's neither here nor
there.
>> I'm not convinced about the hair, but lord knows that's the most
>> difficult part to get right. At the very least, I can't think of a
>> better way to do it that would work well with this medium. To your
>> credit, you get the you got the shadow RIGHT! He didn't. The
>> original has a highlight on her left breast, which definately
>> shouldn't be there. (As if there's any need to emphasize Urd's
>> already generous bust!)
>
> My shadows are better, but still not really good, I sweated over
> that aspect over and over.
It's not that hard to do really! Since you're using the moon as your
primary light source, just treat it as a point source, and draw a line
from its center, through the relevant parts of the subject. This
gives you the line through which your shadow should fall.
In your painting, it falls straight through where the hip joint is,
which is a pretty darn good approximation, given her seating. And
since you fade it into where the rocks fall down, there's even a good,
logical reason for it being so short, despite the moon being low.
In comparison, the shadow in the original piece isn't even going in
the right direction! And it's certainly not proportioned properly for
the time of evening.
<snip>
> And I have a devil of a time with hands. I never could do hands
> properly. I debated putting one had behind a convenient rock,
> and drawing her left arm with her hand behind her leg.
NO CHEATIN! :-)
Your hands aren't bad though. The large issue is that there's no
distinction between where her arms end, and the hands begin. I can't
discern the wrist. Fujishima (or whoever did that piece of fanart)
cheats a bit by using bracelets to help the definition. But there's
defiantely the typical radial buldge at that joint, even if it is
subtle.
What gets your hands is their posture. The left is no big deal,
considering the pose. But the right hand is flat, with none of the
'digital' :-) curvature that makes hands so interesting. Note the
arch of the palm and fingers on the original piece. You seem to have
tweaked the angle of the plane formed by the rock, but even with that,
it seems a little flat.
I'm not so good at hands either. But there's a reason why hand
studies are a staple of western art schools everywhere! :-)
<snip>
> I think it is a disjoint between realism and anime.
Have you done any formal portraiture?
> My original
> paint sketch had her right leg extend even further, but I fixed
> that, at least. I really admire Fujishima's line work, especially
> in the later manga. He had some troubles in the early manga with
> proportions,
Well now, that's the understatement of the year, isn't it?
>which doesn't make me feel too bad. Part of my
> problem is also a lack of knowing techniques. I have a rough
> idea of anatomy, but not in the methods of recreating it in two
I read "Gray's Anatomy" as part of my martial arts training years ago,
but it was equally helpful in my figure drawing. (Well at least for
dimensions, and range of motion. Didn't make up for my poor skils.)
> dimensions. To try to duplicate an artistically exaggerated
> anatomy with that lack of skill, well, cognitive dissonance is
> a mild term for it.
The proportions as far as length and bends aren't that tough to work
out, provided you're willing to use the right tools. Never be afraid
to take a protractor, ruler, and calculator to your subject! If
you're as nerdy as you claim, you know what to do with em. :-)
>> Ya know, I'd be willing to pay at least $50 to see a 3/4 portrait
>> upper body close-up of Urd re-interpreted in a realistic style. :-)
>
> I would too, for that matter... ^=====^
>
>
>> That aside, this is NOT AT ALL bad work. Given the limitations of the
>> medium, and how long it's been since you've last painted, this is
>> actually quite good. Certainly nothing to be ashamed of.
>>
>> And now for some technical questions:
>>
>> What is your paint? Acrylic? Oil? Some unspeakable substance that
>> we must never learn of?
>
> Just some glowing substance found in a meteor ( it was acrylic,
> Liquitex brand )
WHOO HOO! METEOR BRAND PAINT! The exotic stuff. 'Round here we make
due with ground bark, fresh earth, and the blood of innocents. (The
local Michaels stocks Liquitex, and it does the job fine.)
>> What size is the canvas?
>
> 12 inch x 16 inch (30.5 cm x 40.6 cm for our foreign readers ^_^)
HMM! Okay, now some of it starts to make sense. It's HARD to get
details on a canvas of that size, with a central subject posed like
Urd is. Have you considered trying a larger canvas?
>> What material is the canvas?
>
> Its some kind of acrylic-primed canvas stretched on cardboard,
> made by Fredrix.
>
>> What size are your brushes?
>
> Urm, does a "number 4 filbert" mean anything to you? I have a
Yup!
> bunch of filberts, number 4 and 10, a 3/4 oval, a number 2
> shader, a 1/8 dagger, a number 1 fan (which I used for the hair)
> and some so old the markings are worn off. About a dozen in all.
Also makes sense. I had a whole lotta brushes left from my modeling,
and so I cheat a lot when it comes to lines. Getting a clean line
from a 5/0 or an 8/0 taper isn't tough at all. :-)
>> How much time did it take?
>
> That's the interesting thing, this is the fastest I've ever done
> a painting, I started the Monday before Thanksgiving, and finished
> this past Sunday. I probably spent about 8 hours each day on average.
> I tended to lose track of time, though, so it may have been more
> per day.
And that's with acrylics! So roughly 56 hours. Pretty damn quick!
> I got motivated after AnimeUSA, and right now I'm twitching to get
> started on the next painting, but I have Japanese tests to study
> for (finals are in two weeks), a job search to continue, and a
> side programming task for a friend.
Well if you're available for hire, I've got an AI final project that
needs finishing... (Tee-hee-hee) But good luck with the job search!
> But the motivation is still
> there, like a craving that won't be denied for long...
Addict. :-p
Captain Nerd
Abraham Evangelista <da...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 23:49:58 -0500, Captain Nerd
> <cpt...@nerdwatch.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <2dupm2durb1i5ul6s...@4ax.com>,
> > Abraham Evangelista <da...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > Thanks, the interesting thing and what drew me to the subject
> > is, if you watch the closing credits to Samurai Champloo, you
> > see Fuu at sunset on the beach, and when the scene switches to
> > the one I tried to duplicate, the shading is very gradual and
> > more realistic. The pose and the expression on her face were
> > also compelling.
>
> It really is a nice scene, isn't it? She just sorta makes the scene
> wisftul. Also I really do love what you did there with the sky.
I like that her expression is truly ambiguous, if you look at
her one way, she seems hopeful, another way she seems sad.
To me, that's art.
> > of that has to do with the acrylic paint, which absorbs light, and
> > which makes it hard to get a good color match (for me, anyway).
>
> It's entirely possible to thin and mix acrylic to the correct
> consistency to allow for transparancy effects, and layered blending,
> if that's your concern. The devil is in the application of it! Thin
> coats are by far the best, but it can be maddening to wait between the
> applications. I used to use similar thin coat acylic layering to
> approximate blending in my model building days. 10 or 12 applications
> wasn't at all unheard of.
For a lot of the shading, I to use lots of thin coats, but I also
blend on the canvas, which works pretty well a lot of times. It's
likely not as smooth as oil paint blending, but it seems to work
if I do it fast enough. I discovered this "acrylic slowing" stuff
that helps, if I use it sparingly. I wish I had known about it
back in college, it would have made a bunch of my pictures better.
>
> > I wanted a picture that would still look good in lower light, and
> > so I over-lit her face. I hope no one revokes my artistic license
> > over it...
>
> Your painting, your rules! :-) Really it's more a question of
> composition, which you didn't decide anyway.
>
> When using the moon as a backdrop, it can't be the primary light
> source. There needs to be another logical source of light, or you
> lose your highlights. I suspect this is why we see bonfires painted
> onto so many beaches. ;-)
I know, it's because she a goddess, and she's lit from within!
Yeah, that's the ticket! (I've only been lit from within a few
times, but they were really good watermelon shooters...)
> > My shadows are better, but still not really good, I sweated over
> > that aspect over and over.
>
> It's not that hard to do really! Since you're using the moon as your
> primary light source, just treat it as a point source, and draw a line
> from its center, through the relevant parts of the subject. This
> gives you the line through which your shadow should fall.
Oh, I did do that for a few of the shadings, (light under her
left knee, frex) since I learned something about lighting and
perspective from my drafting classes. I just wasn't as consistent
as I should have been.
>
> In your painting, it falls straight through where the hip joint is,
> which is a pretty darn good approximation, given her seating. And
> since you fade it into where the rocks fall down, there's even a good,
> logical reason for it being so short, despite the moon being low.
>
> In comparison, the shadow in the original piece isn't even going in
> the right direction! And it's certainly not proportioned properly for
> the time of evening.
That's what bugged me about it, it's like someone took a line drawing
and shadow from somewhere else and plopped it onto the rocks. The
rocks further out to sea don't look right, either, they look like
they're floating. I tried to put some reflectance and some wave
action around mine.
> <snip>
>
> > And I have a devil of a time with hands. I never could do hands
> > properly. I debated putting one had behind a convenient rock,
> > and drawing her left arm with her hand behind her leg.
>
> NO CHEATIN! :-)
Aw, sensei, hands are *hard*!
> Your hands aren't bad though. The large issue is that there's no
> distinction between where her arms end, and the hands begin. I can't
> discern the wrist. Fujishima (or whoever did that piece of fanart)
> cheats a bit by using bracelets to help the definition. But there's
> defiantely the typical radial buldge at that joint, even if it is
> subtle.
Yeah, that's definitely one of the things I missed.
>
> What gets your hands is their posture. The left is no big deal,
> considering the pose. But the right hand is flat, with none of the
> 'digital' :-) curvature that makes hands so interesting. Note the
> arch of the palm and fingers on the original piece. You seem to have
> tweaked the angle of the plane formed by the rock, but even with that,
> it seems a little flat.
Yeah, that's another. I played with different variations on shading
around the lower arm and hand, but none of them came out looking
to suit me. This version is one of those "stop messing with it and
go with something sorta okay" things.
>
> I'm not so good at hands either. But there's a reason why hand
> studies are a staple of western art schools everywhere! :-)
I was wondering about that.
> <snip>
>
> > I think it is a disjoint between realism and anime.
>
> Have you done any formal portraiture?
Actually, almost all that I painted in college were portraits. Not
official ones, I never had anyone sit for me, especially not the
subjects I painted! I cheated and used photos from magazine covers,
ads, and album covers for my "models". The first portrait I did
was Pam Dawber from a TV Guide cover, which I was quite proud of,
and the last one I did was another TV Guide cover of Priscilla
Presley. I need to take photos of them, so I can at least have a
record in case something happens to them. That'll be my project
for the weekend. I'll post the pictures on my webpage when I get
them taken.
>
> > My original
> > paint sketch had her right leg extend even further, but I fixed
> > that, at least. I really admire Fujishima's line work, especially
> > in the later manga. He had some troubles in the early manga with
> > proportions,
>
> Well now, that's the understatement of the year, isn't it?
His first picture of Belldandy as a Nekomi team "race queen" was
just... urgh.
> > dimensions. To try to duplicate an artistically exaggerated
> > anatomy with that lack of skill, well, cognitive dissonance is
> > a mild term for it.
>
> The proportions as far as length and bends aren't that tough to work
> out, provided you're willing to use the right tools. Never be afraid
> to take a protractor, ruler, and calculator to your subject! If
> you're as nerdy as you claim, you know what to do with em. :-)
Oh, I do kind of approximate things, like a certain number of
finger lengths for an upper arm, etc. Using precision technology
just reminds me too much of work, and painting is what I want
to do for fun! ^======^
> >> And now for some technical questions:
> >>
> >> What is your paint? Acrylic? Oil? Some unspeakable substance that
> >> we must never learn of?
> >
> > Just some glowing substance found in a meteor ( it was acrylic,
> > Liquitex brand )
>
> WHOO HOO! METEOR BRAND PAINT! The exotic stuff. 'Round here we make
> due with ground bark, fresh earth, and the blood of innocents. (The
> local Michaels stocks Liquitex, and it does the job fine.)
There's a Pearl art store about three miles from my apartment, for
the win!
>
> >> What size is the canvas?
> >
> > 12 inch x 16 inch (30.5 cm x 40.6 cm for our foreign readers ^_^)
>
> HMM! Okay, now some of it starts to make sense. It's HARD to get
> details on a canvas of that size, with a central subject posed like
> Urd is. Have you considered trying a larger canvas?
I debated it, and discussed it with my bank account ;_; but decided
on the slightly cheaper option. When I was painting in college,
I did portraits on 16x20's, which worked out real well.
>
> >> What material is the canvas?
> >
> > Its some kind of acrylic-primed canvas stretched on cardboard,
> > made by Fredrix.
> >
> >> What size are your brushes?
> >
> > Urm, does a "number 4 filbert" mean anything to you? I have a
>
> Yup!
>
> > bunch of filberts, number 4 and 10, a 3/4 oval, a number 2
> > shader, a 1/8 dagger, a number 1 fan (which I used for the hair)
> > and some so old the markings are worn off. About a dozen in all.
>
> Also makes sense. I had a whole lotta brushes left from my modeling,
> and so I cheat a lot when it comes to lines. Getting a clean line
> from a 5/0 or an 8/0 taper isn't tough at all. :-)
I'm glad I found filberts, before I had used round brushes
exclusively. That dagger brush really helped with some fine
details, I only bought one last week.
>
> >> How much time did it take?
> >
> > That's the interesting thing, this is the fastest I've ever done
> > a painting, I started the Monday before Thanksgiving, and finished
> > this past Sunday. I probably spent about 8 hours each day on average.
> > I tended to lose track of time, though, so it may have been more
> > per day.
>
> And that's with acrylics! So roughly 56 hours. Pretty damn quick!
I got *really* motivated! "Holy crap someone paid me real money
for this? I gotta make more of these!" ^=====^
> > I got motivated after AnimeUSA, and right now I'm twitching to get
> > started on the next painting, but I have Japanese tests to study
> > for (finals are in two weeks), a job search to continue, and a
> > side programming task for a friend.
>
> Well if you're available for hire, I've got an AI final project that
> needs finishing... (Tee-hee-hee) But good luck with the job search!
AI huh? I was working on that back in the late 80's at an AI
research company that's long out of business. Worked on a couple
of things for DARPA using Bayesian nets. I didn't know AI was
still being taught that much, after so much hype during the 80's
killed off a lot of private research.
> > But the motivation is still
> > there, like a craving that won't be denied for long...
>
> Addict. :-p
It's a fair cop!
I have a technical question for you, I was thinking about making
a few prints from a couple of these, if they work okay. Have you
ever gone to a shop to have prints made, and how much work was it
to do so? I kind of want to have extra copies of some of these
paintings that I can sell for cheaper than an original piece, and
just in case (yeah, dreamer me) more than one person wants a copy.
I don't want to be one of those "print only" artists at the art
shows, but I can understand the financial need to offer a print
at a show instead of an original.
Abraham Evangelista
<cpt...@nerdwatch.com> wrote:
>In article <kj5qm2lcf87ammrjg...@4ax.com>,
> Abraham Evangelista <da...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 23:49:58 -0500, Captain Nerd
>> <cpt...@nerdwatch.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <2dupm2durb1i5ul6s...@4ax.com>,
>> > Abraham Evangelista <da...@verizon.net> wrote:
<snip>
>> > I got motivated after AnimeUSA, and right now I'm twitching to get
>> > started on the next painting, but I have Japanese tests to study
>> > for (finals are in two weeks), a job search to continue, and a
>> > side programming task for a friend.
>>
>> Well if you're available for hire, I've got an AI final project that
>> needs finishing... (Tee-hee-hee) But good luck with the job search!
>
> AI huh? I was working on that back in the late 80's at an AI
> research company that's long out of business. Worked on a couple
> of things for DARPA using Bayesian nets. I didn't know AI was
> still being taught that much, after so much hype during the 80's
> killed off a lot of private research.
Really these days, AI is really more of an "Intelligent Search" field,
at least at my instituion. The final I'm working on uses genetic
techniques to produce english language haiku. Generation will be
easy, but the fitness function is gonna be a complete and utter pain
to write. :-(
>> > But the motivation is still
>> > there, like a craving that won't be denied for long...
>>
>> Addict. :-p
>
> It's a fair cop!
>
> I have a technical question for you, I was thinking about making
> a few prints from a couple of these, if they work okay. Have you
> ever gone to a shop to have prints made, and how much work was it
> to do so? I kind of want to have extra copies of some of these
> paintings that I can sell for cheaper than an original piece, and
> just in case (yeah, dreamer me) more than one person wants a copy.
> I don't want to be one of those "print only" artists at the art
> shows, but I can understand the financial need to offer a print
> at a show instead of an original.
I'll preface this by saying that I never had prints done.
Here's the catch w/ prints. Generally, unless you've got a really
really good relationship with your printer, you're gonna have to order
in runs that number in at least the hundreds. That's not chicken
scratch, we're talking significant dollars.
And that's AFTER you've paid for the scan. Buying your own scanner
big enough to scan even a small canvas is hideously expensive. And
using it's a black art! Just ask Galen what he goes through when he
does his megami scans every month.
A quick google search reveals this Giclee process, which appears to be
ideally suited for small run duplication. I'm not familiar with it,
so I can't comment, but they claim it's got better longevity than
printer inks, and is at least somewhat lightfast.
http://painting.about.com/cs/printing/a/gilceeprints.htm
> Cap.
Captain Nerd
Abraham Evangelista <da...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Nov 2006 03:37:38 -0500, Captain Nerd
> <cpt...@nerdwatch.com> wrote:
>
> >In article <kj5qm2lcf87ammrjg...@4ax.com>,
> > Abraham Evangelista <da...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >> On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 23:49:58 -0500, Captain Nerd
> >> <cpt...@nerdwatch.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <2dupm2durb1i5ul6s...@4ax.com>,
> >> > Abraham Evangelista <da...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > AI huh? I was working on that back in the late 80's at an AI
> > research company that's long out of business. Worked on a couple
> > of things for DARPA using Bayesian nets. I didn't know AI was
> > still being taught that much, after so much hype during the 80's
> > killed off a lot of private research.
>
> Really these days, AI is really more of an "Intelligent Search" field,
> at least at my instituion. The final I'm working on uses genetic
> techniques to produce english language haiku. Generation will be
> easy, but the fitness function is gonna be a complete and utter pain
> to write. :-(
Ooooooh, I'd be interested in seeing that. I can see a fitness
function that would allow a lot of good patterns, but with English
you're going to have a lot of local minima that will grab you
and not make good output. It's weird that most of the NLP research
has been done in a language that is one of the worst to actually
analyze for NLP. :-( Have you done any reading on conceptual
graphs? That's an area of NLP that isn't widely researched, but
my boss (frighteningly technical guy) convinced me that they have
a lot of untapped potential. I could see a combination CG/GA
haiku generator. And Japanese looks like it might be even more
amenable to conceptual graph analysis. Hmmmm.
[schnipp]
> I'll preface this by saying that I never had prints done.
Darn, that means we can't see your work!
> Here's the catch w/ prints. Generally, unless you've got a really
> really good relationship with your printer, you're gonna have to order
> in runs that number in at least the hundreds. That's not chicken
> scratch, we're talking significant dollars.
>
> And that's AFTER you've paid for the scan. Buying your own scanner
> big enough to scan even a small canvas is hideously expensive. And
> using it's a black art! Just ask Galen what he goes through when he
> does his megami scans every month.
Oh, I won't be scanning it myself, no way. Apparently most print
shops also do scanning, at least from their ads, and I think they
prefer to do so since they won't have to worry about viruses etc.
from external sources.
> A quick google search reveals this Giclee process, which appears to be
> ideally suited for small run duplication. I'm not familiar with it,
> so I can't comment, but they claim it's got better longevity than
> printer inks, and is at least somewhat lightfast.
>
> http://painting.about.com/cs/printing/a/gilceeprints.htm
Yeah, I went there and researched giclee printing ("Giclee: The
French call it 'Spit!'" ^====^) and it looks like the way to
go, since once the digital version is made, it's a matter of
running more copies in the future.
If I get to make prints, I'll be sure to let folks know, just
on the off-chance that mass insanity breaks out and people
suddenly feel the need to have copies of my "art"... ^====^
Phil Yff
> In article <1liyqphjdq2ei$.til80syzj37j$.d...@40tude.net>,
> Phil Yff <phil...@adelphia.net> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:43:43 -0500, Captain Nerd wrote:
>>
>>> So, if anyone wants a laugh at my expense (not that you need an
>>> excuse) check out my pitiful attempts at fan art.
>>
>> You deprived me of a good laugh. I was impressed. Katsucon used to be one
>> of the conventions I'd go to. Too bad I can't go this year.
>
> Well, shoot. It would have been neat to meet another r.a.a.m.
> denizen in person, but such is life. Katsucon was pretty good
> last year, after they moved to the Omni Shoreham down in DC.
> I hated that they moved out of Crystal City, since I only live
> a mile or so away, but they needed the room, and the Shoreham
> is a nice place.
>
> Maybe next year? Oh, are you going to Nippon2007, Worldcon?
> I'll be there, if all works out right. Seems like a good place
> to have a r.a.a.m. meetup.
The first Katsucon I went to was in the Tidewater area. Then, I attended
several in the Crystal City. I think 2000 was my last one. If I'm in the
DC area, I'll go.
Rob Kelk
Hash: SHA1
On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 10:25:26 -0500, Dave Watson
<aj...@fuspamma.freenet.carleton.ca> wrote:
>Captain Nerd wrote:
>> So, if anyone wants a laugh at my expense (not that you need an
>> excuse) check out my pitiful attempts at fan art.
>[...]
>> (... abandon hope, ye who click here ...)
>> http://www.nerdwatch.com
>
>Jesus, man, and I thought I was hard on myself sometimes. Cut that
>shit out. This is nice work; keep it up.
Gotta agree with Dave here. If I was half that good, I'd be able to
sell fanart at cons...
- --
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> e-mail: s/deadspam/gmail/
"I'm *not* a kid! Nyyyeaaah!" - Skuld (in "Oh My Goddess!" OAV #3)
"When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear
of childishness and the desire to be very grown-up." - C.S. Lewis
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obbz...@yahoo.com
Captain Nerd wrote:
> In article <1164775833....@j72g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> obbz...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > Captain Nerd wrote:
> >
> > > I figured I'd try it again,
> >
> > Noone cares
>
> What's the matter, given up on crossposting to hell and back?
Of course not, just like you'll never give up trolling the glory hole
at the bus station or begging your uncle to play the "special game"
with you.