"How to Draw Manga" Question
Scot Martin
the part where they were discussing "Tone"
Where in the world can you get tone... I mean specifically... where is
Tone... art there any art supply web sites that deal in Tone... or am I
SOL unless I go over to Japan and pick up the stuff?
Thanks in advance, respond via E-mail or on the newsgroup.
Scot
Avery Davies
>
> I was reading the new "How to Draw Manga" book and I was reading across
> the part where they were discussing "Tone"
>
> Where in the world can you get tone... I mean specifically... where is
> Tone... art there any art supply web sites that deal in Tone... or am I
> SOL unless I go over to Japan and pick up the stuff?
What there talking about is also know as Ziptone or Zip-a-tone. Most art
supply stores do stock it last time I checked, but be prepared to pay a
high dollar for sheets of them.
It's also difficult to work with. You first have to cut the stuff,
preferably with a hobby knife, then make sure you have it flat against
your image. Then rub the zip-a-tone EVENLY into the image.
You can also replicate the effects of Zip-a-tone on a computer, but,
from what Adam Warren has said about the subject, it's about as
difficult as physically doing it (but probably cheaper).
--
This is the Avery Davies within your computer.
Taba-kun
Scot Martin <amur...@iols.net> wrote:
> I was reading the new "How to Draw Manga" book and I was reading
across
> the part where they were discussing "Tone"
>
> Where in the world can you get tone... I mean specifically... where is
> Tone... art there any art supply web sites that deal in Tone... or am
I
> SOL unless I go over to Japan and pick up the stuff?
>
First of all, I can't really reply to a message which brings up "How to
Draw Manga" books without mentioning that "How to Draw Manga" books are
utterly worthless. I'm serious. All those books do is teach you to
learn an srt style by force, when it should develop naturally via
inspiration...
That being said... zipatone is, needless to say, much more easy to come
by in Japan than it is in America, where no one makes much of an effort
to cater to the B&W comic industry. The only brand of zip worth
bothering with is Formatt. Trying to track down a specialty art store
that offers it won't be the easiest thing in the world to do, but it
really is the only brand I know of whose zips are suitable for comics.
Look up "formatt" and "letra" at Altavista and see where it takes you.
Another way you can apply zips is to emulate them via computer, which is
what I do. It requires a nice graphics program like Photoshop, and a
hi-res printer (600 dpi at least)... I use techniques that emulate the
look of real peel-off screentone, and while the process isn't really
time-saving, it's worth not having to put up with the hassle of buying
$7-8 zip sheets and the frustrating process of cutting the sheets just
right, trying to avoid tearing them, and burnishing them properly...
And it is worth noting that if you're only 1 or 2 years into the process
of learning to draw comics, you do NOT want to bother with screentone.
Les
--
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Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Avery Davies
Taba-kun wrote:
>
> In article <37D19569...@iols.net>,
> Scot Martin <amur...@iols.net> wrote:
> > I was reading the new "How to Draw Manga" book and I was reading
> across
> > the part where they were discussing "Tone"
> >
> > Where in the world can you get tone... I mean specifically... where is
> > Tone... art there any art supply web sites that deal in Tone... or am
> I
> > SOL unless I go over to Japan and pick up the stuff?
> >
> > Thanks in advance, respond via E-mail or on the newsgroup.
>
> First of all, I can't really reply to a message which brings up "How to
> Draw Manga" books without mentioning that "How to Draw Manga" books are
> utterly worthless. I'm serious. All those books do is teach you to
> learn an srt style by force, when it should develop naturally via
> inspiration...
I'm kind of wondering which book you guys are talking about. I believe
he may be talking about a more recent entry in the 'How to draw Manga'
genre that was translated from the original Japanese (considering he
mentioned zip-a-tone). Of course he could be talking about a total
different book; the one I'm talking about was created by some circle of
manga-kas as a guide to creating manga. While it does have a fairly
decent art section, it primarly deals with story-telling and the actual
creation of the manga (there's a little 5 page manga which has the
never-ending cycle of production). While I do agree with what you're
saying about fostering your own artistic ability, I believe this book
should be purchased just for some additional insight in the creation of
a manga.
Scot Martin
Taba-kun wrote:
> In article <37D19569...@iols.net>,
> Scot Martin <amur...@iols.net> wrote:
> > I was reading the new "How to Draw Manga" book and I was reading
> across
> > the part where they were discussing "Tone"
> >
> > Where in the world can you get tone... I mean specifically... where is
> > Tone... art there any art supply web sites that deal in Tone... or am
> I
> > SOL unless I go over to Japan and pick up the stuff?
> >
> > Thanks in advance, respond via E-mail or on the newsgroup.
>
> First of all, I can't really reply to a message which brings up "How to
> Draw Manga" books without mentioning that "How to Draw Manga" books are
> utterly worthless. I'm serious. All those books do is teach you to
> learn an srt style by force, when it should develop naturally via
> inspiration...
>
Scot Martin
> Draw Manga" books without mentioning that "How to Draw Manga" books are
> utterly worthless. I'm serious. All those books do is teach you to
> learn an srt style by force, when it should develop naturally via
> inspiration...
Yo padre, I asked for an answer not an opinion. I happy that my purchasing
a book and asking a simple question gave you the opportunity to climb on to
your soap box.
Sometimes people require a start in the art field, other times people are
looking to reach the next level. Quite frankly, I'm glad I slapped down
the money for the book. You cannot create without an inspiration. From the
contours of the human form, to the intricate details of a car engine, people
need and require a source material for their ideas to flow.
Criticizing a "How to book" is just plain bizarre. If you feel that the
design concepts are bad in the book, or that the storytelling aspects are
outright goofy. You are probably right. The book really talks down to its
readers, it even goes into detail on how to create a manga character
personality profile (How dumb is that?)
But then you see a book on "How to Build a Deck" and they tell you to
"measure first" I mean how stupid is that? But a good author would include
that in their book. You'd be surprised how many moronic deck builders don't
understand how or why you should "measure first"
Having said all of this, I have been drawing for years. I love drawing, it
allows me the opportunity to relax. When you take an art class, you learn a
broad range of concepts. Some of those skills you keep, others you develop
from your own experimentation.
This book wasn't a supplement for a good few years of just sitting down,
staring into the forest and drawing trees, going to the beach and drawing
the reflections off the lake, or drawing thousands of skeletons from head to
toe. But the fact of the matter is that all art forms borrow from things,
this book just happens to be less than subtle, about it than others.
I have a friend how is probably the best ink and paint artist I have ever
seen. He has no problem saying that an "I Can Draw Cars" book helped him to
get out of a scrape when he had to draw an advertisement project in a design
class. Or how he was inspired to draw castles after seeing "The Highlander"
and bought a book on "Drawing Stone and Marble"
It is not that he was a bad artist, it is just that when you draw, you
sometimes reach an area where you know and realize your limitations. If he
gave up, I would have never gotten to take in his "Gargoyle" pictures.
Instead he picked up a book and forged ahead on his artwork.
On my free time, I buy a few issues of Cosmo or Vogue magazine just to look
at the new clothing designs. I sometimes look at a linen catalog to get an
idea as to how the shadows hit a rayon curtain. I often times go into the
big city with my digital camera and take pictures of buildings and telephone
poles (And that is an idea that I got off of R. Crumb)
Some people are unable to touch "Mt Fuji" from the United States shores, but
that's where photographs come in to play. Nothing on our planet comes from
anything truly original. And anything that looks original in the world of
art was the result of dropping acid or dementia. Until the day where the
voices in my head start or I become a junkie, I am going to need to have a
source material for my artistic endeavors.
One thing you can say positively about the "How to Draw Manga" book, it
answered a question that was asked of it by me. You on the other hand...:)
Scot
Tim Brown
Avery Davies <pupp...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
<37D21D4A...@earthlink.net>...
> I'm kind of wondering which book you guys are talking about. I believe
> he may be talking about a more recent entry in the 'How to draw Manga'
> genre that was translated from the original Japanese (considering he
> mentioned zip-a-tone). Of course he could be talking about a total
> different book; the one I'm talking about was created by some circle of
> manga-kas as a guide to creating manga. While it does have a fairly
> decent art section, it primarly deals with story-telling and the actual
> creation of the manga (there's a little 5 page manga which has the
> never-ending cycle of production). While I do agree with what you're
> saying about fostering your own artistic ability, I believe this book
> should be purchased just for some additional insight in the creation of
> a manga.
Comickers magazine is also a good resource, I think. I have a few issues I
ordered from Nikaku Animart and they seem to give a lot of tips on toning
and equipment.
But I'm not exactly a good reader of Japanese so maybe it really sucks and
I don't know it (:
It has amazing art though!
"150 channels and nothing to watch?! Boy, cable costs money. As long as I'M
paying for it, we don't waste television in this house! Did you know there
are kids in Ethiopia with two, three channels, tops?"
Taba-kun
Scot Martin <amur...@iols.net> wrote:
> > First of all, I can't really reply to a message which brings up "How
to
> > Draw Manga" books without mentioning that "How to Draw Manga" books
are
> > utterly worthless. I'm serious. All those books do is teach you to
> > learn an srt style by force, when it should develop naturally via
> > inspiration...
>
> Yo padre, I asked for an answer not an opinion. I happy that my
purchasing
> a book and asking a simple question gave you the opportunity to climb
on to
> your soap box.
Er... Thanks for the overly-harsh reply. Most of my message WAS
composed of my answer to your question, by the way.
I'm don't have anything against texts which give pointers on elements of
the comic creating process that CAN be taught, such as anatomy lessons,
where to find screentones, art materials, layout tips, rules on page
proportions, the publishing process, and all the things brought up in
Davies's reply, basically.... the kind of advice you find in "Comickers"
and other Japanese mags. If that's ALL the book covers, I jumped to a
false conclusion (but with a title like "How to Draw Manga," it's hard
not to), and I can see why you'd be so agitated at my response.
What I'm against are books that attempt to teach people to draw in, as
they so often put it, "the manga way." What they're trying to teach
is how to draw in an abstract art style. You CAN'T teach someone that.
At best, you can teach someone how to draw in a specific, distinct art
style. You could teach someone how to draw just like the author of the
"How to Draw Manga" book, but you can't teach someone HOW TO DRAW
"MANGA."
I'm always compelled to blurt out this advice when seeing a post about
"How to Draw the Manga Way" type books, and it isn't something I do to
be mean; it's the opposite, because those books really do have the
postential to steer an artist in the wrong direction.
Scot Martin
> the comic creating process that CAN be taught, such as anatomy lessons,
> where to find screentones, art materials, layout tips, rules on page
> proportions, the publishing process, and all the things brought up in
> Davies's reply, basically.... the kind of advice you find in "Comickers"
> and other Japanese mags. If that's ALL the book covers, I jumped to a
> false conclusion (but with a title like "How to Draw Manga," it's hard
> not to), and I can see why you'd be so agitated at my response.
>
> What I'm against are books that attempt to teach people to draw in, as
> they so often put it, "the manga way." What they're trying to teach
> is how to draw in an abstract art style. You CAN'T teach someone that.
It's cool... my view is that very few people get all their ideas from one
specific source. I found that the book did have some valuable information
about the topic of manga art. Granted I'm not going to use the "How to Draw
Manga" as the bible for my artistic endeavors, but rather milk whatever
valuable information I can get out of it in the near to far future.
Besides, if anything, the art in the book is quite good.
If you compare it to half of the books on the market, for example, "How to
Draw Villains the Marvel Way" that seems a little narrow a topic for an art
booklet, but heck, if you are able to get some good ideas or information out
of it, go with it, who am I to argue.
I just found your previous response, I don't know... a wee bit stiff. What
kind of response were you expecting?:)
"Thanks for the info, I decided to chuck the book into the garbage."
Scot
PS: Maybe I should have responded that way, it would have been pretty
funny. Kind of like when people talk bad of one anime or another.
For Example:
The statement.
"Hey everyone, does anyone have the Sailor Moon R movie on DVD yet, I just
got it and I really enjoyed it"
The reply.
"Sailor Moon Sucks"
Then the original message handlers reply:
"I decided to throw away "Sailor Moon R" thanks for the info"
Granted, that would be pretty funny.
BlendTape
>>All those books do is teach you to
learn an srt style by force, when it should develop naturally via
inspiration...<<
I couldn't agree with you more.
Instead of pushing "How to Draw" books, I often encourage artists to thumb
through books that focus on technique.
There's a book series published in Japan that demonstrates "would-be" manga-ka
on the use materials (hundreds, actually).
The series is called "The Manga Techniques School", and the lone volume I own
focuses on print media.
The book runs through *EVERY* medium used in Japanese manga.
Even though the text is printed in Japanese, there are hundred of photos and
illustrations that demonstrate the use of materials. For example, there's a
page showing how different line weights can be achieved with various ink nibs
(the nibs themselves are pictured).
IMO, it's really educational. You're not 'forced' to draw like a particular
artist (unless you become their assistant). Instead, you learn the tricks and
special techniques they use in their work.
I highly recommend this book to aspiring artists who enjoy working in b/w print
media.
-blend
Jason Thompson
: I was reading the new "How to Draw Manga" book and I was reading across
: the part where they were discussing "Tone"
: Where in the world can you get tone... I mean specifically... where is
: Tone... art there any art supply web sites that deal in Tone... or am I
: SOL unless I go over to Japan and pick up the stuff?
Try "http://www.comictones.com". At least I think that's the address.
They're a relatively new company that has been importing and selling
Japanese screentones to American audiences, and they've had booths at a few
recent anime and comic conventions. I don't think they have online sales yet
though -- you may have to request a catalog or something like that.
Sincerely,
Jason Thompson
Chris Guy
Actually, I believe the book under discussion in this thread is a
translation of a volume from the series you're talking about. It's
written by "A Society for the Study of Manga Techniques" and
concentrates on tools, basic rules of anatomy, proportion, expression,
etc.
If the section on ink nibs you are talking about has eleven pictures of
the same manga girl holding two fingers up in a 'V' sign, it's the same
book in English.
- CEG