Muslims terrorize JoJo's Bizarre Adventure
牛魔王
http://www.shueisha.co.jp/info/index_e.html
Jojo's Anime, Manga Sales Halted Due to Islamic Images (Updated)
posted on 2008-05-22 06:35 EDT
Shueisha, A.P.P.P. vow to remove images after online protests
The Japanese publisher Shueisha and the anime production company
A.P.P.P. have halted shipments of the JoJo's Bizarre Adventure anime
and manga after online Islamic protesters objected to imagery in the
anime that they deemed offensive. In particular, a scene in the sixth
anime episode ("The Mist of Vengeance") depicts the main villain, Dio,
vowing to kill the main character Jōtarō Kujō while looking at pages
of the Qur'an, the main religious text of Islam.
The original scene in the manga's Part 3 ("Stardust Crusaders,"
pictured at right) has unintelligible scrawls in the book. However,
the animators put reproductions of pages from the Ar-Ra'd (The
Thunder) chapter of the Qur'an in the corresponding scene in their
version. The Kyodo News agency cited Sheikh Abdul Hamid Al-Atrash,
chairman of the Fatwa Committee at Cairo's Al-Azhar University, as
saying, "The scene depicts Muslims as terrorists."
Shueisha posted a Japanese statement about the issue and a English
letter to the "Muslim audience of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure" on
Thursday. In both documents, Shueisha and A.P.P.P. explained that the
anime staffers added Arabic text to the book to indicate the scene's
apparent location in the Arabic world. However, the same staffers were
illiterate in Arabic and did not realize that they chose pages from
the Qur'an. The two companies acknowledged that they were also unaware
of the issue until recently, and emphasized that manga author did not
know that the anime staffers added pages from the Qur'an. The Japanese
statement asserted that the story's setting is fantasy, and is not
intended to depict Islam or Muslims. Both documents offer the
companies' "sincere apology to Muslims for the incidents."
The companies said that they are reviewing the entire anime series and
the original manga for any other potentially offensive scenes. They
specifically noted that both versions depicted "buildings that look
like mosques" in fight scenes. After halting shipments of the anime
and manga to ensure both versions "will no longer contain these
improper scenes," the companies also said that they "will not make new
copies without correcting these problems." The manga began
serialization in 1987, and the original anime video at the center of
the controversy was first released in 2001.
In 2005, the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten published 12 editorial
cartoons with images of the Islamic prophet Muhammad, including one
with a bomb as his turban. The resulting protests led to riots and
more than 100 deaths in countries across the Middle East and
elsewhere.
Hitoshi Igarashi, the Japanese translator of Salman Rushdie's The
Satanic Verses novel, was found murdered by an unknown person in 1991
after Iranian leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini called for the death
of Rushdie over this book in 1989. A manga called Allah-kun was
published in 1969, but has not been republished in over a decade. It
is no longer listed in almost any Japanese bookseller.
Abraham Evangelista
But is the poster a know troll I should killfile? The subject line
seems a little inflammatory...
--
Abraham Evangelista
牛魔王
I suppose I am sometimes guilty of sensationalism in my Usenet posts,
but in my experience that's the only way to get people to read them.
I also only crosspost to relevant groups. (notice no x-post to
wrestling newsgroups or anything.)
sanjian
> I know the article is legit. I saw it on ANN earlier.
>
> But is the poster a know troll I should killfile? The subject line
> seems a little inflammatory...
Seems perfectly fine to me. Japan, you ready for Cartoon Riots?
Travoltron
> Seems perfectly fine to me. Japan, you ready for Cartoon Riots?
The terrorists have been appeased by Shueisha, so I don't think they
have any reason to.
Captain Nerd
wrote:
"Reason" doesn't enter into it, unfortunately...
Cap.
--
Since 1989, recycling old jokes, cliches, and bad puns, one Usenet
post at a time!
Operation: Nerdwatch http://www.nerdwatch.com
Only email with "TO_CAP" somewhere in the subject has a chance of being read
Abraham Evangelista
<cpt...@nerdwatch.com> wrote:
>In article <g153rp$adb$1...@aioe.org>, Travoltron <travo...@xenu.org>
>wrote:
>
>> sanjian wrote:
>>
>> > Seems perfectly fine to me. Japan, you ready for Cartoon Riots?
>>
>> The terrorists have been appeased by Shueisha, so I don't think they
>> have any reason to.
>
> "Reason" doesn't enter into it, unfortunately...
>
> Cap.
It's all right for Shueisha to publish stuff they haven't vetted, but
it's un"reason"able for the Fatwa council to complain about it?
That's awfully even handed of you, Cap. :-p
If they don't like it, they ought to say so. That's part of the
healthy and democratic discourse that any "reason"able society should
be able to engage in. You bitch when you're pissed off, right? I
know I do, and I expect no less from everyone else. Even the Fatwa
Council of Cairo University.
Now getting the party you're offended by to do something? That's not
guaranteed. IMO it's Shueisha who screwed the pooch on this one. But
also IMO this doesn't even bear comparison to Danish cartoon debacle.
The political cartoons were a deliberate and valid (if mean spirited)
social commentary. I could be wrong, (having not read the Jojo manga)
but I'm pretty sure that "Jojo's bizzarre adventures" probably wasn't
intended to be either. (Mean spirited, or a social commentary.)
Anime production and manga publishing companies do stupid shit like
this all the time, and screw it up all the time. (Anyone remember the
D&D handbook reprints from FMA?) There are countless examples of
"Engrish" all over the net, and don't even get me started on all the
things that the anime/manga industry gets wrong culturally when they
use the foreigner trope. Muslim or not, it's about time someone
called em on it.
--
Abraham Evangelista
Travoltron
> Muslim or not, it's about time someone
> called em on it.
No, it really isn't. That time would have probably been "Angel Cop".
This is about fear of violent repercussions.
They're afraid of this happening again:
http://www.nytimes.com/books/99/04/18/specials/rushdie-translator.html
sanjian
> On Thu, 22 May 2008 21:48:34 -0400, Captain Nerd
> <cpt...@nerdwatch.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <g153rp$adb$1...@aioe.org>, Travoltron <travo...@xenu.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> sanjian wrote:
>>>
>>>> Seems perfectly fine to me. Japan, you ready for Cartoon Riots?
>>>
>>> The terrorists have been appeased by Shueisha, so I don't think they
>>> have any reason to.
>>
>> "Reason" doesn't enter into it, unfortunately...
>>
>> Cap.
>
> It's all right for Shueisha to publish stuff they haven't vetted, but
Sure? Why not? Does Shueisha have to vett everything they publish, in
order to make sure it doesn't offend somebody?
> it's un"reason"able for the Fatwa council to complain about it?
Fatwa often don't stop just at complaints.
Hell, sometimes it doesn't even take a fatwa. Ask Mssr. Theo van Gogh (who
may not have been the best of men, but still didn't deserve to die for
political statements, especially ones that are true) and Ayaan Hisri Ali.
> That's awfully even handed of you, Cap. :-p
>
> If they don't like it, they ought to say so. That's part of the
> healthy and democratic discourse that any "reason"able society should
> be able to engage in. You bitch when you're pissed off, right? I
> know I do, and I expect no less from everyone else. Even the Fatwa
> Council of Cairo University.
Frankly, I get tired of keeping track of what pisses the Fatwa councils off.
It would take several inconveniently large buildings to house a list of just
what CAIR has objected to, let alone every Fatwa council and "moderate" imam
who decides that a bank teller having a little piggy bank of Pigglet is
offensive.
> Now getting the party you're offended by to do something? That's not
> guaranteed. IMO it's Shueisha who screwed the pooch on this one. But
Screwed the pooch? Hardly. Anime and manga publishers regularly offend
Christians and Americans. We don't accuse them of screwing the pooch. We
rightly say "it's art, deal with it." So the muslims got their turn in the
barrel. If they don't like it, fuck 'em.
> also IMO this doesn't even bear comparison to Danish cartoon debacle.
> The political cartoons were a deliberate and valid (if mean spirited)
> social commentary. I could be wrong, (having not read the Jojo manga)
> but I'm pretty sure that "Jojo's bizzarre adventures" probably wasn't
> intended to be either. (Mean spirited, or a social commentary.)
That, however, does not make your case. Hell, it might even show that this
latest temper tantrum was even more absurd than the Danish Cartoon Riots (if
that's actually even possible).
Beyond that, I doubt naming a teddy bear "Mohammed" was a mean-spirited
social commentary, either.
> Anime production and manga publishing companies do stupid shit like
> this all the time, and screw it up all the time. (Anyone remember the
> D&D handbook reprints from FMA?) There are countless examples of
> "Engrish" all over the net, and don't even get me started on all the
> things that the anime/manga industry gets wrong culturally when they
> use the foreigner trope. Muslim or not, it's about time someone
> called em on it.
Why? Is it something really worth calling them on? It's part of who they
are, and have been for a long time. Are there things they do that I don't
like? Of course (I really don't care to ever see the "the church really
turns out to be evil" cliche ever again). Do I really have any right to
expect not to be laughed off the stage if I try to call them on it?
I'll give the same advice that I'll give to CAIR, the Cairo Fatwa, and all
the rest of the professionaly offended - get over yourself.
Abraham Evangelista
>Abraham Evangelista wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 May 2008 21:48:34 -0400, Captain Nerd
>> <cpt...@nerdwatch.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <g153rp$adb$1...@aioe.org>, Travoltron <travo...@xenu.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> sanjian wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Seems perfectly fine to me. Japan, you ready for Cartoon Riots?
>>>>
>>>> The terrorists have been appeased by Shueisha, so I don't think they
>>>> have any reason to.
>>>
>>> "Reason" doesn't enter into it, unfortunately...
>>>
>>> Cap.
>>
>> It's all right for Shueisha to publish stuff they haven't vetted, but
>
>Sure? Why not? Does Shueisha have to vett everything they publish, in
>order to make sure it doesn't offend somebody?
vet for possible offensive material? That's up to them.
But they damn well ought to know WHAT it is they're committing to
paper. Republishing content whose content isn't even known is
irresponsible!
>> it's un"reason"able for the Fatwa council to complain about it?
>
>Fatwa often don't stop just at complaints.
The article cites an "Internet Protest." Our modern day equivalent of
a write-in-complaint campaign. In so far as I can tell from the
articles, nobody's calling for the death of Shueisha.
Alternately...
<4chan>
THE INTERNET. SERIOUS BUSINESS. :-)
</4chan>
>Hell, sometimes it doesn't even take a fatwa. Ask Mssr. Theo van Gogh (who
>may not have been the best of men, but still didn't deserve to die for
>political statements, especially ones that are true) and Ayaan Hisri Ali.
That's a whole different crime though. MURDER is a crime that's
inexcuseable regardless of reason. I'm not seeing any indications
that anyone is asking for the sudden unpleasant and messy end of
Shueisha.
Not even Dave Watson.:-)
>> That's awfully even handed of you, Cap. :-p
>>
>> If they don't like it, they ought to say so. That's part of the
>> healthy and democratic discourse that any "reason"able society should
>> be able to engage in. You bitch when you're pissed off, right? I
>> know I do, and I expect no less from everyone else. Even the Fatwa
>> Council of Cairo University.
>
>Frankly, I get tired of keeping track of what pisses the Fatwa councils off.
>It would take several inconveniently large buildings to house a list of just
>what CAIR has objected to, let alone every Fatwa council and "moderate" imam
>who decides that a bank teller having a little piggy bank of Pigglet is
>offensive.
>
>> Now getting the party you're offended by to do something? That's not
>> guaranteed. IMO it's Shueisha who screwed the pooch on this one. But
>
>Screwed the pooch? Hardly. Anime and manga publishers regularly offend
>Christians and Americans.
And said Christians and Americans often bitch when they do.
>We don't accuse them of screwing the pooch. We
Oh I think you're quite wrong on this one. Heck we're constantly
complaining here about various "Concerned Parents" groups are trying
to get shows taken off the air or books off the shelf.
>rightly say "it's art, deal with it." So the muslims got their turn in the
>barrel. If they don't like it, fuck 'em.
That's absolutely fine, and I think you're right. But they get their
turn on the soap box just like everyone else.
>> also IMO this doesn't even bear comparison to Danish cartoon debacle.
>> The political cartoons were a deliberate and valid (if mean spirited)
>> social commentary. I could be wrong, (having not read the Jojo manga)
>> but I'm pretty sure that "Jojo's bizzarre adventures" probably wasn't
>> intended to be either. (Mean spirited, or a social commentary.)
>
>That, however, does not make your case. Hell, it might even show that this
>latest temper tantrum was even more absurd than the Danish Cartoon Riots (if
>that's actually even possible).
>
>Beyond that, I doubt naming a teddy bear "Mohammed" was a mean-spirited
>social commentary, either.
You're right, it probably wasn't either.
It was however a huge social faux pas, and a more than cursory
examination of the situation by that poor teacher would have revealed
it as such. If you're going to teach in a fundamentalist Muslim
community, it would do you well to know that the name Mohammed is
probably not something you throw around lightly. I'd go so far as to
say that it's common sense.
Sure, by our standards this isn't anything worth getting worked up
over. But she wasn't working under, nor subject to western standards
at the time, and she should have realized it. Rome, Romans and all
that.
>> Anime production and manga publishing companies do stupid shit like
>> this all the time, and screw it up all the time. (Anyone remember the
>> D&D handbook reprints from FMA?) There are countless examples of
>> "Engrish" all over the net, and don't even get me started on all the
>> things that the anime/manga industry gets wrong culturally when they
>> use the foreigner trope. Muslim or not, it's about time someone
>> called em on it.
>
>Why? Is it something really worth calling them on?
CAIR seems to think so.
And in the long term for the Anime industry in general? Absolutely.
This kind of thing BREAKS the illusion that a content producer is
trying to create. It at best, it's a mild annoyance, at worst it
becomes detrimental to the narrative.
If English looks cool, that's great. Use more English bits. But at
least know what English, (or Arabic in this case) that you're using.
Laugable or not, we don't need another "Tokyo Breakfast."
>It's part of who they
>are, and have been for a long time. Are there things they do that I don't
>like? Of course (I really don't care to ever see the "the church really
>turns out to be evil" cliche ever again). Do I really have any right to
>expect not to be laughed off the stage if I try to call them on it?
Nope. And likewise, the companies can ignore you. But you've got
every right to visibly and vocally complain about it if you're so
inclined. But the difference is, nobody is going to (or ought to)
call you a terrorist for doing it either.
>I'll give the same advice that I'll give to CAIR, the Cairo Fatwa, and all
>the rest of the professionaly offended - get over yourself.
For better or worse, Shueisha seems to feel differently. In that this
is a large and as of yet mostly untapped audience, it might even have
been a good decision.
--
Abraham Evangelista
Alex Taylor
> Jojo's Anime, Manga Sales Halted Due to Islamic Images (Updated)
> posted on 2008-05-22 06:35 EDT
> Shueisha, A.P.P.P. vow to remove images after online protests
>
> The Japanese publisher Shueisha and the anime production company
> A.P.P.P. have halted shipments of the JoJo's Bizarre Adventure anime
> and manga after online Islamic protesters objected to imagery in the
> anime that they deemed offensive.
This sort of phenomenon is hardly an abberation...
> Shueisha posted a Japanese statement about the issue and a English
> letter to the "Muslim audience of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure" on
> Thursday. In both documents, Shueisha and A.P.P.P. explained that the
> anime staffers added Arabic text to the book to indicate the scene's
> apparent location in the Arabic world. However, the same staffers were
> illiterate in Arabic and did not realize that they chose pages from
> the Qur'an. The two companies acknowledged that they were also unaware
> of the issue until recently, and emphasized that manga author did not
> know that the anime staffers added pages from the Qur'an. The Japanese
> statement asserted that the story's setting is fantasy, and is not
> intended to depict Islam or Muslims. Both documents offer the
> companies' "sincere apology to Muslims for the incidents."
An apology seems like quite a reasonable action following such a thoughtless
mistake. Something else that happens all the time.
> The companies said that they are reviewing the entire anime series and
> the original manga for any other potentially offensive scenes. They
> specifically noted that both versions depicted "buildings that look
> like mosques" in fight scenes. After halting shipments of the anime
> and manga to ensure both versions "will no longer contain these
> improper scenes," the companies also said that they "will not make new
> copies without correcting these problems." The manga began
> serialization in 1987, and the original anime video at the center of
> the controversy was first released in 2001.
Again, how often does this sort of thing happen in other contexts? All the
time. No need to get any more exercised over it than usual.
> In 2005, the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten published 12 editorial
> cartoons with images of the Islamic prophet Muhammad, including one
> with a bomb as his turban. The resulting protests led to riots and
> more than 100 deaths in countries across the Middle East and
> elsewhere.
Which was indeed terrible, but I fail to see what this non sequitor has to
do with the previously-quoted matter.
> Hitoshi Igarashi, the Japanese translator of Salman Rushdie's The
> Satanic Verses novel, was found murdered by an unknown person in 1991
> after Iranian leader Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini called for the death
> of Rushdie over this book in 1989. A manga called Allah-kun was
> published in 1969, but has not been republished in over a decade. It
> is no longer listed in almost any Japanese bookseller.
Ditto.
--
Alex Taylor
Fukushima, Japan
http://www.socis.ca/~ataylo00
Please take off hat when replying.
afedakendragon
> On Thu, 22 May 2008 19:31:45 UTC, <Gyum...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > Jojo's Anime, Manga Sales Halted Due to Islamic Images (Updated)
> > posted on 2008-05-22 06:35 EDT
> > Shueisha, A.P.P.P. vow to remove images after online protests
>
> > The Japanese publisher Shueisha and the anime production company
> > A.P.P.P. have halted shipments of the JoJo's Bizarre Adventure anime
> > and manga after online Islamic protesters objected to imagery in the
> > anime that they deemed offensive.
>
> This sort of phenomenon is hardly an abberation...
Which? Protests? Or a Manga publisher / Anime Producer not checking
what they publish?
> > Shueisha posted a Japanese statement about the issue and a English
> > letter to the "Muslim audience of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure" on
> > Thursday. In both documents, Shueisha and A.P.P.P. explained that the
> > anime staffers added Arabic text to the book to indicate the scene's
> > apparent location in the Arabic world. However, the same staffers were
> > illiterate in Arabic and did not realize that they chose pages from
> > the Qur'an. The two companies acknowledged that they were also unaware
> > of the issue until recently, and emphasized that manga author did not
> > know that the anime staffers added pages from the Qur'an. The Japanese
> > statement asserted that the story's setting is fantasy, and is not
> > intended to depict Islam or Muslims. Both documents offer the
> > companies' "sincere apology to Muslims for the incidents."
>
> An apology seems like quite a reasonable action following such a thoughtless
> mistake. Something else that happens all the time.
I'm just surprised that they apologized. Actually, given the cultural
context of Japan, maybe I shouldn't be so surprised.
Actually, this just makes me all the more curious as to what you'd put
in a Manga about Allah....
Dave Watson
> > The political cartoons were a deliberate and valid (if mean spirited)
> > social commentary. I could be wrong, (having not read the Jojo manga)
> > but I'm pretty sure that "Jojo's bizzarre adventures" probably wasn't
> > intended to be either. (Mean spirited, or a social commentary.)
>
> That, however, does not make your case. Hell, it might even show that this
> latest temper tantrum was even more absurd than the Danish Cartoon Riots (if
> that's actually even possible).
>
> Beyond that, I doubt naming a teddy bear "Mohammed" was a mean-spirited
> social commentary, either.
One small incident in the music world: Brian Eno and David Byrne
released _My Life in the Bush of Ghosts_ in 1982, which set various
voice recordings (some taken from radio, some from records) to the
spiky, funky music Byrne was doing at the time with Talking Heads when
Eno was producing them. Three of the songs used audio from the album
_The Human Voice in the World of Islam_, including one with Algerian
Muslims chanting the Qu'ran. According to David Byrne, they got a
call from an Islamic organization in London saying, "We consider this
blasphemy that you put grooves to the chanting of the Holy Book."
They chose to remove the song from later pressings of the album, and
it's not on the 2006 reissue. They definitely weren't intending to
offend anyone with the piece, but they wanted to be cautious, so it
was gone. Fine, then. If I find the original CD used, I'll buy it,
and if I don't, hello, MP3.
Watson
Who would also like to buy the reissue--don't get him wrong.
Varekem
news:04WdnYo8iq6FY6jV...@posted.internetamerica...
Moonlight Knight to the rescue!
http://www.geocities.com/pyra_myst2/darien_moonlightknight.gif
sanjian
Allah in the Family, starring Carol O'Conner
afedakendragon
I'd pay to see that! At least $2 an episode. Maybe more if they cast
him as Allah.
--
Abraham Evangelista
afedakendragon
Holy Books set to Delicious Grooves...
...the Psalms according to Brian Eno? :-)
Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I've got a disc or two of Sutras
set to new-age stuff lying around the house....
--
Abraham Evangelista
Warewolf
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/295289
Then again, is this sort of censorship going affect *all* (future) versions
of the manga and anime or just the copies being shipped to the Middle East?
Signed,
Warewolf
who wonders if sending Rio Kinezono (of Burn Up Excess) to the Middle East
in a bikini is another option *evil grin*
sanjian
They were going to cast him as Mohammed, but he says he doesn't do lolicon.
afedakendragon
It's kinda hard for me to picture O'Conner as any sort of
Prophet. :-)
And I'm not gonna touch the other half of that comment... No good can
come of it. :-)
Warewolf
news:CfSdnUinobJ_G6vV...@posted.internetamerica:
> Abraham Evangelista wrote:
>
>> IMO it's Shueisha who screwed the pooch on this one.
>
> Screwed the pooch? Hardly. Anime and manga publishers regularly
> offend Christians and Americans.
Would you care to post (or, better yet, email) a list of these 'offensive
examples'. With the stress that I've been going through lately, I could
use a good laugh. ^_^
Signed,
Warewolf
whose considers 'Ghost World' and 'Chessboards: Planes of Possibility' to
be a 'far better books'
--------
He did it the same way they manipulate you into buying toothpaste, car
wax, even politicians - all prepackaged the least offensive, most
appealing alternative - but it's precisely when humor is offensive that
we need it most.
Comedy should *PROVOKE!!*
It should blast through prejudices, challenge preconceptions...comedy
should always leave you different from when it found you.
Sure, humor can hurt, even alienate, but the risk is better than the
alternative - a steady diet of innocuous, child-proof flavorless *MUSH!!*
**DEMAND** the be challenged, to be offended, to be treated like
thinking, reasoning **ADULTS!!*
And raise your children to be the same.
Don't let a comedian, a network, a congressional committee or an evil
genius take away your freedom to laugh at whatever you want.
-- (Eric) Duckman, Joking the Chicken
sanjian
> On Fri, 23 May 2008 04:57:09 -0400, "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote:
>> Sure? Why not? Does Shueisha have to vett everything they publish,
>> in order to make sure it doesn't offend somebody?
>
> vet for possible offensive material? That's up to them.
It would be a first.
> But they damn well ought to know WHAT it is they're committing to
> paper. Republishing content whose content isn't even known is
> irresponsible!
Do you really think they've ever given a damn before? As long as their
target audience buys it, it's all good. And, frankly, I doubt their target
audience is up in arms about the use of the Koran.
>>> it's un"reason"able for the Fatwa council to complain about it?
>>
>> Fatwa often don't stop just at complaints.
>
> The article cites an "Internet Protest." Our modern day equivalent of
> a write-in-complaint campaign. In so far as I can tell from the
> articles, nobody's calling for the death of Shueisha.
Probably because the right people haven't heard about it yet.
> Alternately...
>
> <4chan>
>
> THE INTERNET. SERIOUS BUSINESS. :-)
>
> </4chan>
Sometimes the internet can reach out and touch real life. Just because
things happen miles away, and you only hear about it online, doesn't mean
it's not real.
>> Hell, sometimes it doesn't even take a fatwa. Ask Mssr. Theo van
>> Gogh (who may not have been the best of men, but still didn't
>> deserve to die for political statements, especially ones that are
>> true) and Ayaan Hisri Ali.
>
> That's a whole different crime though. MURDER is a crime that's
> inexcuseable regardless of reason. I'm not seeing any indications
You say that, but according to many, it's not murder if it's to defend the
name of Allah or Mohammed. Just because YOU don't think it's justified,
doesn't mean that there aren't those who do, and will be willing to act on
it.
> that anyone is asking for the sudden unpleasant and messy end of
> Shueisha.
>
> Not even Dave Watson.:-)
>
>>> That's awfully even handed of you, Cap. :-p
>>>
>>> If they don't like it, they ought to say so. That's part of the
>>> healthy and democratic discourse that any "reason"able society
>>> should
>>> be able to engage in. You bitch when you're pissed off, right? I
>>> know I do, and I expect no less from everyone else. Even the Fatwa
>>> Council of Cairo University.
>>
>> Frankly, I get tired of keeping track of what pisses the Fatwa
>> councils off. It would take several inconveniently large buildings
>> to house a list of just what CAIR has objected to, let alone every
>> Fatwa council and "moderate" imam who decides that a bank teller
>> having a little piggy bank of Pigglet is offensive.
>>
>>> Now getting the party you're offended by to do something? That's
>>> not guaranteed. IMO it's Shueisha who screwed the pooch on this
>>> one. But
>>
>> Screwed the pooch? Hardly. Anime and manga publishers regularly
>> offend Christians and Americans.
>
> And said Christians and Americans often bitch when they do.
And what is your response when they do?
>> We don't accuse them of screwing the pooch. We
>
> Oh I think you're quite wrong on this one. Heck we're constantly
> complaining here about various "Concerned Parents" groups are trying
> to get shows taken off the air or books off the shelf.
Your example did not disprove my statement.
>> rightly say "it's art, deal with it." So the muslims got their turn
>> in the barrel. If they don't like it, fuck 'em.
>
> That's absolutely fine, and I think you're right. But they get their
> turn on the soap box just like everyone else.
And given the relevent history, I get to suggest that people take care. Am
I stereotyping? Maybe. But it's not without justification.
>>> also IMO this doesn't even bear comparison to Danish cartoon
>>> debacle.
>>> The political cartoons were a deliberate and valid (if mean
>>> spirited) social commentary. I could be wrong, (having not read
>>> the Jojo manga) but I'm pretty sure that "Jojo's bizzarre
>>> adventures" probably wasn't intended to be either. (Mean spirited,
>>> or a social commentary.)
>>
>> That, however, does not make your case. Hell, it might even show
>> that this latest temper tantrum was even more absurd than the Danish
>> Cartoon Riots (if that's actually even possible).
>>
>> Beyond that, I doubt naming a teddy bear "Mohammed" was a
>> mean-spirited social commentary, either.
>
> You're right, it probably wasn't either.
>
> It was however a huge social faux pas, and a more than cursory
> examination of the situation by that poor teacher would have revealed
> it as such. If you're going to teach in a fundamentalist Muslim
> community, it would do you well to know that the name Mohammed is
> probably not something you throw around lightly. I'd go so far as to
> say that it's common sense.
Considering that it was the MUSLIM children in the class that chose the
name, and they named it after a STUDENT who was named after Mohammed, I'd
say there's a bit more involved than "she should have known." And let's not
forget, she had to be hidden by the government, because there were angry
mobs calling for her head. Not wanting to deport her, or give he a fine.
They wanted to give her a Nick Berg haircut.
Perhaps you haven't seen the protest signs saying "Death to those who insult
islam."
> Sure, by our standards this isn't anything worth getting worked up
> over. But she wasn't working under, nor subject to western standards
> at the time, and she should have realized it. Rome, Romans and all
> that.
Except we have a push to instill Sharia law in Australia and Canada. There
are placed in London where you DON'T go if you're not muslim. Sometimes,
the unpleasant has a way of reaching out and touching you.
>>> Anime production and manga publishing companies do stupid shit like
>>> this all the time, and screw it up all the time. (Anyone remember
>>> the D&D handbook reprints from FMA?) There are countless examples
>>> of "Engrish" all over the net, and don't even get me started on all
>>> the things that the anime/manga industry gets wrong culturally when
>>> they
>>> use the foreigner trope. Muslim or not, it's about time someone
>>> called em on it.
>>
>> Why? Is it something really worth calling them on?
>
> CAIR seems to think so.
CAIR is about as good a judge of islamophobia as Al Sharpton is of
anti-black discrimination, or Michael Savage is of anti-Americanism.
They're all hair-trigger activists out for their own agenda (or personal
profit, in Sharpton's case).
> And in the long term for the Anime industry in general? Absolutely.
> This kind of thing BREAKS the illusion that a content producer is
> trying to create. It at best, it's a mild annoyance, at worst it
> becomes detrimental to the narrative.
Do you really think any of the Japanese viewers noticed or thought it broke
any illusions?
> If English looks cool, that's great. Use more English bits. But at
> least know what English, (or Arabic in this case) that you're using.
> Laugable or not, we don't need another "Tokyo Breakfast."
Why should they know? Their target audience doesn't (despite years of
futile English classes)
sanjian
> On May 23, 2:55 pm, "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote:
>>>>> Actually, this just makes me all the more curious as to what you'd
>>>>> put in a Manga about Allah....
>>
>>>> Allah in the Family, starring Carol O'Conner
>>
>>> I'd pay to see that! At least $2 an episode. Maybe more if they
>>> cast him as Allah.
>>
>> They were going to cast him as Mohammed, but he says he doesn't do
>> lolicon.
>
> It's kinda hard for me to picture O'Conner as any sort of
> Prophet. :-)
Dude, if George Carlin can play a priest...
sanjian
> "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in
> news:CfSdnUinobJ_G6vV...@posted.internetamerica:
>
>> Abraham Evangelista wrote:
>>
>>> IMO it's Shueisha who screwed the pooch on this one.
>>
>> Screwed the pooch? Hardly. Anime and manga publishers regularly
>> offend Christians and Americans.
>
> Would you care to post (or, better yet, email) a list of these
> 'offensive examples'. With the stress that I've been going through
> lately, I could use a good laugh. ^_^
WAY too much trouble to compile. But if you insist, I'll work for $30 an
hour.
Rob Kelk
wrote:
>"sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in
>news:CfSdnUinobJ_G6vV...@posted.internetamerica:
>
>> Abraham Evangelista wrote:
>>
>>> IMO it's Shueisha who screwed the pooch on this one.
>>
>> Screwed the pooch? Hardly. Anime and manga publishers regularly
>> offend Christians and Americans.
>
>Would you care to post (or, better yet, email) a list of these 'offensive
>examples'. With the stress that I've been going through lately, I could
>use a good laugh. ^_^
Has anybody compiled such a list?
Here's a start...
Christians:
"Neon Genesis Evangelion", including but not limited to its depiction of
angels.
Americans:
"You're Under Arrest: No Mercy"
--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> e-mail: s/deadspam/gmail/
"I'm *not* a kid! Nyyyeaaah!" - Skuld (in "Oh My Goddess!" OAV #3)
"When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear
of childishness and the desire to be very grown-up." - C.S. Lewis
Dave Watson
> On Fri, 23 May 2008 19:05:16 GMT, Warewolf <warewolfmypa...@shaw.ca>
> wrote:
>
> >"sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in
> >news:CfSdnUinobJ_G6vV...@posted.internetamerica:
>
> >> Abraham Evangelista wrote:
>
> >>> IMO it's Shueisha who screwed the pooch on this one.
>
> >> Screwed the pooch? Hardly. Anime and manga publishers regularly
> >> offend Christians and Americans.
>
> >Would you care to post (or, better yet, email) a list of these 'offensive
> >examples'. With the stress that I've been going through lately, I could
> >use a good laugh. ^_^
>
> Has anybody compiled such a list?
>
> Here's a start...
>
> Christians:
>
> "Neon Genesis Evangelion", including but not limited to its depiction of
> angels.
>
> Americans:
>
> "You're Under Arrest: No Mercy"
My favourite American stereotype in anime: The Buxom Blonde in a
Cowboy Hat. See Arcade Gamer Fubuki, Labyrinth of Flames and
RahXephon for examples.
It could be argued that Haunted Junction takes the mick out of
Christians, Buddhists and Shintoists. Good luck trying to find a
copy, though.
Watson.
sanjian
> On May 23, 5:27 pm, robk...@deadspam.com (Rob Kelk) wrote:
> My favourite American stereotype in anime: The Buxom Blonde in a
> Cowboy Hat. See Arcade Gamer Fubuki, Labyrinth of Flames and
> RahXephon for examples.
I don't consider that a stereotype - I consider it good advertising.
Galen
wrote:
>On Fri, 23 May 2008 19:05:16 GMT, Warewolf <warewol...@shaw.ca>
>wrote:
>
>>"sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in
>>news:CfSdnUinobJ_G6vV...@posted.internetamerica:
>>
>>> Abraham Evangelista wrote:
>>>
>>>> IMO it's Shueisha who screwed the pooch on this one.
>>>
>>> Screwed the pooch? Hardly. Anime and manga publishers regularly
>>> offend Christians and Americans.
>>
>>Would you care to post (or, better yet, email) a list of these 'offensive
>>examples'. With the stress that I've been going through lately, I could
>>use a good laugh. ^_^
>
>Has anybody compiled such a list?
>
>Here's a start...
>
>Christians:
>
>"Neon Genesis Evangelion", including but not limited to its depiction of
>angels.
>
>
>Americans:
>
>"You're Under Arrest: No Mercy"
ROD - the US president as a coward.
Magical Project S - the US president as an incompetent womanizer.
Legend of the Mystical Ninja - the US refuses to stop launching
nukes at the BBEG even after he clearly demonstrates
the ability to take control of the missiles and re-target
them.
牛魔王
> The article cites an "Internet Protest." Our modern day equivalent of
> a write-in-complaint campaign. In so far as I can tell from the
> articles, nobody's calling for the death of Shueisha.
Actually, they are. (Big shock there; that's par for the course with
Muslims.)
And to the guy that asked, yes it's being pulled in the US and the
whole world as well (the anime at least) to appease Islamofascists.
(And their apologists like Abraham Evangelista.)
http://www.japantoday.com/category/national/view/publisher-to-suspend-cartoon-sales-after-muslims-say-it-insults-islam
Publisher to suspend cartoon sales after Muslims say it insults Islam
Thursday 22nd May, 09:06 AM JST
CAIRO —
A popular Japanese cartoon is sparking off outcries in the Muslim
world where some fear it could fuel a backlash not seen since European
papers carried cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed and a Dutch lawmaker
released a controversial film earlier this year.
Shueisha Inc, a Japanese publisher involved in the production of the
cartoon ‘‘JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure’’ and its animation version,
suspended sales of some of the original comics and the DVD series
Thursday, but said the material was not intended to be offensive.
At issue is a 90-second segment from “JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure,” which
depicts Dio Brando, a villain, picking up a Quran from a bookshelf and
apparently examining it as he orders the execution of the hero and his
friends.
The animated movie is based on the wildly popular comic book by
Hirohiko Araki, which has been carried in Shonen Jump, a weekly
magazine, from 1987 to 2003. The cartoon series’ pirated version with
Arabic subtitles has been distributed on websites since March 2007.
After a viewer posted negative comments and the still scene, it
sparked off more protests. Eventually responses were carried on more
than 300 Arab and Islamic Web forums with some accusing Japan of
insulting the Quran.
Sheikh Abdul Hamid Attrash, chairman of the Fatwa (religious edict)
Committee at Al-Azhar, the highest Sunni authority based in Cairo,
dismissed the cartoon as an insult to Islam.
‘‘This scene depicts Muslims as terrorists, which is not true at
all,’’ he said. ‘‘This is an insult to the religion and the producers
would be considered to be enemies of Islam.’’
In responding to the accusation, the Shueisha official explained that
it was ‘‘a simple mistake.’’
‘‘Neither the original comic nor the animation intends to treat
Muslims as villains. But as a result, the cartoon offended Muslims.’’
said the official. ‘‘We apologize for the unpleasantness that the
cartoon may have caused and will carefully consider how to deal with
religious and culture themes.’’
The official said one of animators came up with the idea of using an
Arabic book in order to give the scene a more authentic feel as the
villain was hiding out in Egypt.
With that in mind he went to the library and found a book, which
turned out to be the Quran and inserted it. No one realized the
mistake as no one could read or speak Arabic, the official said.
Other reactions included website postings citing their offense as the
suggested correlation between the villain and his reading of the holy
book, as well as the underlying message suggesting that children who
read the Quran will become villains.
‘‘There are prejudiced pictures about the greatest and purest divine
book, our Great Quran, in a new cartoon series called JoJo’s Bizarre
Adventure...what is the purpose of putting these pictures?’’ a well
circulated Internet message asks.
Although the Japanese publisher explained that the Quran was not
included in the original comic book version, the scene appears in
episode 6 of the cartoon’s first original animation video, ‘‘Stardust
Crusaders,’’ which was produced by A.P.P.P (Another Push Pin Planning)
Co in 2001.
‘‘There is a wicked man in a cartoon series called JoJo’s Bizarre
Adventure and this villain appears in a clip while reading Holy
Quran...even the Japanese began to depict Muslims as evil persons and
terrorists in their cartoon films,’’ said Qannas al-Jazira, one of al-
Hesbah most active members.
Al-Hesbah is a major Islamic website used as a clearing house for
Islamic militants’ statement.
Despite the apology from the company, some such as Aly Yassin, are not
willing to accept the error.
As an Egyptian Internet cafe owner in Cairo, Yassin, believes the
objective of the Japanese producers is to say, ‘‘This evil character
derives its subversive ideas from this book, the Holy Quran...this
indicates the deep-rooted rancor against Islam and the misconceptions
about Quran meanings.’’ ‘‘This is unjustifiable,’’ he said.
Still others, such as Gamal Qutb, the former head of the Fatwa
Committee at Al-Azhar, were even tougher, suggesting that Muslims
would boycott Japanese products unless Japan takes action against the
controversial video.
‘‘Muslims will be forced to adopt a position toward their
civilization, from arguing their worship through boycotting their
products to responding in the same manner if necessary,’’ he noted.
On the other hand, Henry, 50, a Christian administrator in Beirut, who
only gave his first name, spoke about his concern about Muslims’
intolerance toward freedom of expression. He thought that a boycott of
Japanese products or an attack on producers was going too far as he
pointed to negative examples prevalent in the Hollywood film industry.
Warewolf
news:89824dde-6cec-4942...@x19g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
> On May 23, 4:32 am, Abraham Evangelista <da...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> The article cites an "Internet Protest." Our modern day equivalent
>> of a write-in-complaint campaign. In so far as I can tell from the
>> articles, nobody's calling for the death of Shueisha.
>
> Actually, they are. (Big shock there; that's par for the course with
> Muslims.)
> And to the guy that asked, yes it's being pulled in the US and the
> whole world as well (the anime at least) to appease Islamofascists.
> (And their apologists like Abraham Evangelista.)
*attempts to contact a 'Gamilon' named Desslock*
*and send him a list of target coordinates on planet Earth*
*one of them being a 'copy protection' studio in Russia* ~_^
(I got your 'planet bombs' right here) }:^)
--------
'There are two things that are infinite - the universe and human
stupidity - and I am not entirely certain about the universe' -- Albert
Einstein
--------
And, if you really want to get offensive...
The three basic rules of I-Slam:
I-Slam women into walls
I-Slam planes into buildings
I-Slam anyone who disagrees with me
[Extremist face meets fist]
Meg Griffin: And we can slam back a hell of a lot harder, you asshole!
[In the background, a large group of animated characters smiles]
[before participating in the ensuing battle for freedom]
(*sigh* if only...) 9_9
sanjian
> On May 23, 4:32 am, Abraham Evangelista <da...@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> The article cites an "Internet Protest." Our modern day equivalent
>> of
>> a write-in-complaint campaign. In so far as I can tell from the
>> articles, nobody's calling for the death of Shueisha.
>
> Actually, they are. (Big shock there; that's par for the course with
> Muslims.)
> And to the guy that asked, yes it's being pulled in the US and the
> whole world as well (the anime at least) to appease Islamofascists.
> (And their apologists like Abraham Evangelista.)
<snip for length> The article does not say what you seem to think it says.
They are calling for boycotts, not executions (but the Fatwa is still young,
give them time).
Travoltron
> <snip for length> The article does not say what you seem to think it
> says. They are calling for boycotts, not executions (but the Fatwa is
> still young, give them time).
"This is an insult to the religion and the producers
would be considered to be enemies of Islam."
Definitely a threat.
牛魔王
I'm not saying the Fatwha has called for death, but many Muslims have
apparently been sending death threats to Shueisha.
牛魔王
Oh yeah, here's one of the places I read about the bomb threat:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=66698
Invid Fan
<ga...@nekomimicon.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 23 May 2008 21:27:38 GMT, rob...@deadspam.com (Rob Kelk)
> wrote:
>
> >On Fri, 23 May 2008 19:05:16 GMT, Warewolf <warewol...@shaw.ca>
> >wrote:
> >
> >>"sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in
> >>news:CfSdnUinobJ_G6vV...@posted.internetamerica:
> >>
> >>> Abraham Evangelista wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> IMO it's Shueisha who screwed the pooch on this one.
> >>>
> >>> Screwed the pooch? Hardly. Anime and manga publishers regularly
> >>> offend Christians and Americans.
> >>
> >>Would you care to post (or, better yet, email) a list of these 'offensive
> >>examples'. With the stress that I've been going through lately, I could
> >>use a good laugh. ^_^
> >
> >Has anybody compiled such a list?
> >
> >Here's a start...
> >
> >Christians:
> >
> >"Neon Genesis Evangelion", including but not limited to its depiction of
> >angels.
Most depictions of Christianity show they have no real idea, treating
it the way Disney treats the Greek Gods. I've been waiting for them to
do the same for Islam. I mean, imagine Chrono Crusade using islam
instead of christianity :)
(the first episode of Ego Proxy, iirc, has a guy with an Islamic moon
necklace who's told they don't allow that kind of crap in this country.
A quick check with my malay muslim friend showed that, yes, no Muslim
would wear that type of necklace and it's a case of the Japanese
figuring Christians and Muslims were interchangeable...)
> >
> >
> >Americans:
> >
> >"You're Under Arrest: No Mercy"
> ROD - the US president as a coward.
Coward? he pisses himself :)
--
Chris Mack "Refugee, total shit. That's how I've always seen us.
'Invid Fan' Not a help, you'll admit, to agreement between us."
-'Deal/No Deal', CHESS
Blade
> Abraham Evangelista wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 May 2008 04:57:09 -0400, "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote:
> Except we have a push to instill Sharia law in Australia and Canada.
> There
No we don't.
-
Blade
Blade
(would've emailed, but your address isn't valid; ROT13d instead for possibly
offensive content)
Qhqr, V gubhtug lbh nibvqrq cbyvgvpny fgngrzragf ba gur arjftebhcf. V zrna,
V qbhog lbh'q nccerpvngr n pbzzrag nobhg ubj gur tbfcryf bs Wrfhf unir zber
pbagvahvgvrf guna Grapuv (naq rira vs lbh qvqa'g pner, bguref zvtug).
-
Blade
sanjian
"Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:g1ei5j$23j$1...@aioe.org...
>>> I'd pay to see that! At least $2 an episode. Maybe more if they cast
>>> him as Allah.
>>
>> They were going to cast him as Mohammed, but he says he doesn't do
>> lolicon.
>
> Qhqr, V gubhtug lbh nibvqrq cbyvgvpny fgngrzragf ba gur arjftebhcf. V
> zrna,
> V qbhog lbh'q nccerpvngr n pbzzrag nobhg ubj gur tbfcryf bs Wrfhf unir
> zber
> pbagvahvgvrf guna Grapuv (naq rira vs lbh qvqa'g pner, bguref zvtug).
Ok, yeah. Maybe I was a bit over the top there. Even though it may be
true, this was certainly not the place for me to bring it up. It was hardly
essential to the discussion.
Giovanni Wassen
> Hell, sometimes it doesn't even take a fatwa. Ask Mssr. Theo van Gogh
> (who may not have been the best of men, but still didn't deserve to
> die for political statements, especially ones that are true)
Even if the statements weren't true, he didn't have to die. I know very
many people who say it was his own fault, which is weird, because he only
speaks up what he thinks.
> and Ayaan Hisri Ali.
That big Fraud. But damn, she came back, because the governement didn't
want to pay for her safety abroad anymore.
> let alone every Fatwa
> council and "moderate" imam who decides that a bank teller having a
> little piggy bank of Pigglet is offensive.
Which they actually listened to.
--
Gio
http://blog.watkijkikoptv.info
http://myanimelist.net/profile/extatix
Antonio E. Gonzalez
I'm amazed you both missed an obvious point: Carroll O'Connor
playing *any* character now would be a genuine miracle, considering
his current "health status" . . .
--
- ReFlex 76
- "Let's beat the terrorists with our most powerful weapon . . . hot
girl-on-girl action!"
- "The difference between young and old is the difference between
looking forward to your next birthday, and dreading it!"
- Jesus Christ - The original hippie!
<http://reflex76.blogspot.com/>
<http://www.blogger.com/profile/07245047157197572936>
Katana > Chain Saw > Baseball Bat > Hammer
Ken Arromdee
>>>> offend Christians and Americans.
>>Americans:
>>
>>"You're Under Arrest: No Mercy"
>ROD - the US president as a coward.
>Magical Project S - the US president as an incompetent womanizer.
>Legend of the Mystical Ninja - the US refuses to stop launching
> nukes at the BBEG even after he clearly demonstrates
> the ability to take control of the missiles and re-target
> them.
Patlabor the Movie 2. Japan attacked by terrorists and the bad-guy-but-
main-lecturing-character tells us that the US will use its military bases
to *take over Japan* using the terrorists as an excuse. (That movie also
uses World War II as an example of suffering bringing peace, in such a way
that suffering *by* Japan gets mentioned, but suffering caused by Japan
is irrelevant.)
Space Cruiser Yamato: Thinly disguised evil blue Americans from space attack
a peaceful Earth with thinly disguised nuclear bombs in order to conquer it.
--
Ken Arromdee / arromdee_AT_rahul.net / http://www.rahul.net/arromdee
"In a superhero story, Superman jumps off buildings and flies. In a realistic
story, Superman doesn't jump off buildings and can't fly. Deconstruction is
writing a story where Superman can't fly but he still jumps off of buildings."
ashez2ashes
Not a list but how about that for an example?
http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/5255433.html
--
ashez
ashez2ashes
>
> - Show quoted text -
Damn, nevermind. Most of the 'Let's Bible' scans were removed. Guess
I should have checked the link before I posted (I had it bookmarked).
--
ashez
Oliver
>There are placed in London where you DON'T go if you're not muslim.
I've lived in London 20 years and have yet to encounter any. Is this
just a version of that 'Eurabia' nonsense so beloved by the American
far-right?
Oliver
And given that the far-right fundamentalist Christians who make no
secret of wanting to turn the US into a 'Handmaid's Tale'-style
theocracy have more influence, money, members and firearms, I know
which 'push' is the greater threat.
bobbie sellers
> On May 23, 3:51 pm, "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote:
>> Warewolf wrote:
>>> "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in
>>> news:CfSdnUinobJ_G6vV...@posted.internetamerica:
>>>> Abraham Evangelista wrote:
>>>>> IMO it's Shueisha who screwed the pooch on this one.
>>>> Screwed the pooch? Hardly. Anime and manga publishers regularly
>>>> offend Christians and Americans.
Not to mention the way all the this stuff about kami offends
the atheists and agnostics and talk of souls offends those who have
discarded dualism.
Good thing the stories can be interesting.
>>> Would you care to post (or, better yet, email) a list of these
>>> 'offensive examples'. With the stress that I've been going through
>>> lately, I could use a good laugh. ^_^
>> WAY too much trouble to compile. But if you insist, I'll work for $30 an
>> hour.
>
> Not a list but how about that for an example?
>
> http://community.livejournal.com/scans_daily/5255433.html
>
> --
> ashez
later
bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at california dot com)
--
bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco
Ningen banji Human beings do
Samazama no Every single kind
Baka a suru Of stupid thing
--- 117th edition of Haifu Yanagidaru published in 1832
paranormalized
> ashez2ashes wrote:
> > On May 23, 3:51 pm, "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote:
> >> Warewolf wrote:
> >>> "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in
> >>>news:CfSdnUinobJ_G6vV...@posted.internetamerica:
> >>>> Abraham Evangelista wrote:
> >>>>> IMO it's Shueisha who screwed the pooch on this one.
> >>>> Screwed the pooch? Hardly. Anime and manga publishers regularly
> >>>> offend Christians and Americans.
>
> Not to mention the way all the this stuff about kami offends
> the atheists and agnostics and talk of souls offends those who have
> discarded dualism.
>
retain your equanimity at all times, religiously, and not have to get
offended at anything...
Jonathan Fisher
x-tian, but content with others who try to live justly, love mercy,
and walk humbly with your brand of whatever...
Massimo Sabbadini
(Ken Arromdee) wrote:
>Space Cruiser Yamato: Thinly disguised evil blue Americans from space attack
>a peaceful Earth with thinly disguised nuclear bombs in order to conquer it.
Uh, no. The Gamilons were clearly modeled after the nazis. Most
officers had German names and their leader, Desler, bore the title of
fuhrer ("soutou").
--
Massimo "Gohan" Sabbadini
Email: gohan(at)megane.it
"Tibi, magnum Innominandum, signa stellarum nigrarum
et bufaniformis Sadoquae sigilim" (De Vermis Mysteriis)
Invid Fan
<9fe55b3d-9ff7-467a...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
paranormalized <paranor...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> On May 29, 8:30 am, bobbie sellers <bl...@california.com> wrote:
> > ashez2ashes wrote:
> > > On May 23, 3:51 pm, "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote:
> > >> Warewolf wrote:
> > >>> "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in
> > >>>news:CfSdnUinobJ_G6vV...@posted.internetamerica:
> > >>>> Abraham Evangelista wrote:
> > >>>>> IMO it's Shueisha who screwed the pooch on this one.
> > >>>> Screwed the pooch? Hardly. Anime and manga publishers regularly
> > >>>> offend Christians and Americans.
> >
> > Not to mention the way all the this stuff about kami offends
> > the atheists and agnostics and talk of souls offends those who have
> > discarded dualism.
> >
> ??? I thought the whole point of being an agnostic is that you can
> retain your equanimity at all times, religiously, and not have to get
> offended at anything...
>
Yup. Atheists and the like treat it all like mythology. It's only those
who are believers who get pissed when their faith is treated lightly or
misrepresented.
牛魔王
I know what he says is true in France... dunno about UK
Your English mosques are also extremely radical compared to those in
the US.
bobbie sellers
> On May 29, 8:30 am, bobbie sellers <bl...@california.com> wrote:
>> ashez2ashes wrote:
>>> On May 23, 3:51 pm, "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote:
>>>> Warewolf wrote:
>>>>> "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in
>>>>> news:CfSdnUinobJ_G6vV...@posted.internetamerica:
>>>>>> Abraham Evangelista wrote:
>>>>>>> IMO it's Shueisha who screwed the pooch on this one.
>>>>>> Screwed the pooch? Hardly. Anime and manga publishers regularly
>>>>>> offend Christians and Americans.
>> Not to mention the way all the this stuff about kami offends
>> the atheists and agnostics and talk of souls offends those who have
>> discarded dualism.
>>
> ??? I thought the whole point of being an agnostic is that you can
> retain your equanimity at all times, religiously, and not have to get
> offended at anything...
There is no point to being an agnostic nor yet even an atheist
but one arrives at that state by a process similar to conversion to
a religion in which one attains belief. One does not discard dualism
because it seems a good idea but because one is convinced of the oneness
of body and mind.
If one wishes to retain one's equanimity then perhaps the
study of various forms of meditation is the prudent pursuit.
I have an interesting and short article on the form of controlled
meditation called Ki Breathing and will be happy to direct a
copy of same to anyone and it originated with Shinto but may be
irreligiously practiced by anyone of any persuasion as a bio-feedback
exercise to calm the mind and attain body-mind unification for whatever
purpose.
> Jonathan Fisher
> x-tian, but content with others who try to live justly, love mercy,
> and walk humbly with your brand of whatever...
Good ideas all of that.
Ken Arromdee
Massimo Sabbadini <go...@megane.it> wrote:
>>Space Cruiser Yamato: Thinly disguised evil blue Americans from space attack
>>a peaceful Earth with thinly disguised nuclear bombs in order to conquer it.
>Uh, no. The Gamilons were clearly modeled after the nazis. Most
>officers had German names and their leader, Desler, bore the title of
>fuhrer ("soutou").
A scene cut from Star Blazers showed the American planes attacking the
WWII Yamato in a similar manner to Dessler's ships.
And the atomic bomb analogy was pretty blatant. Nazis didn't have atomic
bombs.
It's true there was Nazi imagery in there too, but conflating Americans
with Nazis just makes the anti-Americanism worse.
sanjian
> On Fri, 23 May 2008 15:50:24 -0400, "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote:
>
>> afedakendragon wrote:
>>> On May 23, 2:55 pm, "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> Actually, this just makes me all the more curious as to what
>>>>>>> you'd put in a Manga about Allah....
>>>>
>>>>>> Allah in the Family, starring Carol O'Conner
>>>>
>>>>> I'd pay to see that! At least $2 an episode. Maybe more if they
>>>>> cast him as Allah.
>>>>
>>>> They were going to cast him as Mohammed, but he says he doesn't do
>>>> lolicon.
>>>
>>> It's kinda hard for me to picture O'Conner as any sort of
>>> Prophet. :-)
>>
>> Dude, if George Carlin can play a priest...
>>
>
> I'm amazed you both missed an obvious point: Carroll O'Connor
> playing *any* character now would be a genuine miracle, considering
> his current "health status" . . .
Obvious, but boring. When discussing odd actor roles, it's about as
interesting to worry about such things as it is to worry about the fact that
animation isn't real when discussing characters and plots.
sanjian
You'll notice many of us distanced ourselves from Huck because he was a
scary theocrat. (don't get me wrong, I have no issues with a theocracy. As
soon as God comes down to run the world, I'm behind Him 100%. I just don't
trust those who volunteer to do it for Him).