Some depressing responses to a post I made...
Arnold Kim
http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=83015&show=0
Over half of them said they spend $0 on anime per month.
I'd be an idiot if I said I was surprised, but it's still depressing...
Arnold Kim
Nick
Couldn't read the thread because the server was down...
I know that sometimes on scanlation web sites I'll see people unhappily
saying that they'll never find out how a series ended, because the
scanlators dropped the manga partway through because it was licensed.
I agree it's not surprising, but it is depressing.
--
Nick <mailto:tans...@pobox.com>
"Natural laws have no pity." R.A.H.
darkst...@gmail.com
The latest estimate, based on the 6M/week number I've provided, from a
prominent anime retailer now suggests over 95% of all the anime viewed
is now stolen.
It's over -- the thieves won this battle a long time ago.
Mike
darkst...@gmail.com
"Dude, anime is FREE."
And you wonder why I want to physically assault many anime fans these
days.
Mike
Yaniv Tempelman
Arnold Kim wrote:
Most of them are between 16-20 years old, you're at least ten years
older than the majority responding. Spending the little money they have
on merchandising like figurines (and games, handy bill...) is more
important to them than spending on anime which is easy to get for free
nowadays. I agree, it's a bit depressing but also understandable. When I
was in my teens, I copied a lot of C64/Amiga games and didn't bother to
buy the originals; I didn't have the money and wouldn't have know where
to buy them anyway.
--
Yaniv Tempelman
darkst...@gmail.com
>
> Well, that is the problem with the blogs.
>
> If you want to get deep depressed about mankind, read the online
> discussions at newspaper articles.
Which is about all anime is anymore, the thieves picking up Shippuden
off the Internet and laughing while the anime burns to the ground.
Mike
Warewolf
$607e...@cv.net:
Actually, I think you're forgetting a few things here...
1) How many of those posters, to your knowledge, live in North America?
2) How many series with box sets (out of the ones that make it across the
proveribal border to the shops in their area) are still being broadcast
by the various networks (in some heavily butchered form)?
3) After all the censorship (read: americanization) that has been
performed on past anime series (*cough*OnePiece*hack*), what makes you
think that the 'average viewer' (when not distracted by farmed-out
american series or cheated by other 'Complete Series' box sets) is going
to purchase a series or OAV that he/she is not familiar with (even if
he/she or another family member reads this group and/or its Anime
Primer)?
I may be speaking for myself here but, let's face it, after seeing what
the animation studios (and their fans) are capable of via series like
Daria, Batman:TAS and Spice City, why should I spend my hard-earned cash
on what is basically either a toy commercial, a 'punching bag comedy' or
an overrated snoozefest?
I *used* to enjoy Astro Boy/Mighty Atom and Star Blazers/Space Cruiser
Yamato when I was a kid but I've out grown them since then. What I'm
looking for these days are OAVs and series that do more than build on
past achievements - I'd like them to redefine the very 'essence' of the
term.
Daria, for example, wasn't just about a cynical teenager making her way
through (and mark on) a new high school. It was a reminder of how
funny/twisted we humans can be. (In fact, with a little 'tweaking', it
could have offered far stranger tales than its musical and holiday
episodes) ^_^;
Batman:TAS did more than redefine decades-old staples in the comic book
industry. It displayed them as tragic individuals that the viewers could
relate to and, in some ways, pity.
And Spicy City, even with its (overly?) titilating pilot, made science-
fiction - a genre overstuffed with badly-written 'cautionary tales' -
enjoyable to view/read once more.
If there are anime series (or even manga equivalents) that can deliver
what these unorthodox examples offer then perhaps the remaining
publishers that offer them will see some semblance of profit.
At the moment, though, some of the series that I enjoyed online (ie
Ultimate Girls) are not currently available (or likely ever will be.
Thank you, politics). }X^�
Signed,
Warewolf
who could elaborate on the 'gimmicks' he's looking for in his next
purchase(s).
o/` A world=wide plague has been brought to light o/`
o/` It ain't swine flu but it just might o/`
o/` brand you 'terrorist' if you breach copyright...o/`
o/` or get accused...this summer o/`
o/` Ba-*RAWK*, it's a hummer o/`
o/` Ba-*RAWK*, call a plumber o/`
o/` and if you think things cannot get any dumber o/`
o/` Ba-*RAWK*, Oh bummer o/`
Travers Naran
>
> When I
> was in my teens, I copied a lot of C64/Amiga games and didn't bother to
> buy the originals; I didn't have the money and wouldn't have know where
> to buy them anyway.
And as documented elsewhere (in dead-tree books interviewing the people
who made your C64 & Amiga games), because of the piracy they stopped
producing anything for those platforms and went to the consoles or PCs.
I'm still angry about it almost 15 years on. >:-(
(And yes, being a teen meant low-to-no income and the originals were
costing $40-$70 US in 1989 dollars, so I don't blame most people (those
people weren't going to buy even with out piracy) -- but I do blame the
ones who HAD money and flagrantly pirated stuff, often being the first
ones to buy a game just to copy it for the thrill of being the base of
the pirating chain.)
--
-----
Travers Naran, tnaran at google's mail.com
"Welcome to RAAM. Hope you can take a beating..." -- E.L.L.
Antonio E. Gonzalez
Let's see:
- Though technically you pay for cable and internet service, that
might still be included as "$0 spent"; so Cartoon Network, Adult Swim,
Sci-Fi, Hulu, Joost, and Cruchyroll are among the others covered there
. . .
- People might still be going through anime they bought long ago and
are yet to get into; I know I have more than a few DVDs yet to be
viewed, or viewed fully . . .
Sometimes explanations are simple, and certainly not sinister,
especially as more and more people are forced to stretch every dollar
. . .
--
- ReFlex76
Giovanni Wassen
> From the MyAnimeList.Net forums:
>
> http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=83015&show=0
>
> Over half of them said they spend $0 on anime per month.
Some even think anime is free. Well, I do download lots of anime, what I
like I buy. But it's getting frustrating if companies like Funimation
releases an anime boxset (26 eps) and put it on 4 DVD's. The quality isn't
the same as a good R2J DVD. Still, I'll buy it.
> I'd be an idiot if I said I was surprised, but it's still depressing...
Most of the people down there are kids, hopefully they'll turn around and
start paying for anime.
--
Gio, just ordered Zone of the Enders.
http://www.watkijkikoptv.info
http://myanimelist.net/profile/extatix
http://watkijkikoptv.info/animeblog
ROI
I guess I pay between $10-20 on anime, but that's ordering it from
libraries or video stores. I download from the net, but not very much
because I share wireless with my family and they don't like it when I
go over the limit. If I were to buy anything, it would be manga
because at around $15-30 it's more within my budget.
However, I'm from Australia, and it seems most of the responses there
are in America. Things may differ.
Galen
wrote:
>"Arnold Kim" <arno...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> From the MyAnimeList.Net forums:
>>
>> http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=83015&show=0
>>
>> Over half of them said they spend $0 on anime per month.
>
>Some even think anime is free. Well, I do download lots of anime, what I
>like I buy. But it's getting frustrating if companies like Funimation
>releases an anime boxset (26 eps) and put it on 4 DVD's. The quality isn't
>the same as a good R2J DVD. Still, I'll buy it.
There's no guarantee of quality with an R2J DVD,
especially recently.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> "Arnold Kim" <arno...@optonline.net> wrote in news:49fe066f$0$5937
> $607e...@cv.net:
>
>> From the MyAnimeList.Net forums:
Which is a pretty self-selected group which will contain a large
proportion -- vastly larger than the population at large -- of the type
of stupid young kid who'll post stuff like this.
>
> Actually, I think you're forgetting a few things here...
Only one, really. That such polls are utterly non-representative,
self-selecting, and -- on such forums -- nearly worthless for drawing
any conclusions.
You might as well think anything you see on Usenet means something.
Note that publishers and media people would laugh themselves sick at
the thought of paying attention to what Usenetters think.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Blade
"Arnold Kim" <arno...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:49fe066f$0$5937$607e...@cv.net...
You should be surprised. Most people who watch fansubs go on to buy the
anime! It's a shocking rarity when they don't! I know, because I hear that
here every single time the discussion comes up.
Obviously your forum is composed only of statistical outliers! Or they're
all not from North America, where as we all know it's impossible to buy
anime! Or they're desperately poor starving African orphans clinging to the
Internet on a router made from mud and cow dung! Or the dog ate their anime
expenditure money!
-
Blade
Blade
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote in message
news:gtmjlu$mo2$3...@news.motzarella.org...
> Warewolf wrote:
>> "Arnold Kim" <arno...@optonline.net> wrote in news:49fe066f$0$5937
>> $607e...@cv.net:
>>
>>> From the MyAnimeList.Net forums:
>
> Which is a pretty self-selected group which will contain a large
> proportion -- vastly larger than the population at large -- of the type of
> stupid young kid who'll post stuff like this.
Sure it is, Wasp. Everyone knows in real life that most people who watch
fansubs go on to buy the anime. That's why licensing everything popular with
fansubbers turned out to be such a winning business strategy for the US
Anime companies.
(Or is it that everyone who watches fansubs buys merchandise? I forget.
Well, as we all know, that ALSO turned out to be a winning strategy, so it's
all good!)
>> Actually, I think you're forgetting a few things here...
>
> Only one, really. That such polls are utterly non-representative,
> self-selecting, and -- on such forums -- nearly worthless for drawing any
> conclusions.
>
> You might as well think anything you see on Usenet means something.
>
> Note that publishers and media people would laugh themselves sick at the
> thought of paying attention to what Usenetters think.
By the by, Sea Wasp, overall sales of music are down 8% over the last year.
That's including the increase of sales on Itunes and similar circumstances.
-
Blade
Giovanni Wassen
>> Note that publishers and media people would laugh themselves sick at
>> the thought of paying attention to what Usenetters think.
>
> By the by, Sea Wasp, overall sales of music are down 8% over the last
> year. That's including the increase of sales on Itunes and similar
> circumstances.
Noticed anything about the economy lately?
--
Gio
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
>
> By the by, Sea Wasp, overall sales of music are down 8% over the last
> year.
And?
Blade
"Giovanni Wassen" <ext...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9C01929DF1...@217.19.16.66...
> "Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> Note that publishers and media people would laugh themselves sick at
>>> the thought of paying attention to what Usenetters think.
>>
>> By the by, Sea Wasp, overall sales of music are down 8% over the last
>> year. That's including the increase of sales on Itunes and similar
>> circumstances.
>
> Noticed anything about the economy lately?
Of COURSE it's the economy.
Why, there's nearly always a good reason for the consistent drop of music
sales over the past decade, year after year. It's a different reason every
year, but one thing you can be sure of: it's sure not file-sharing!
File-sharing INCREASES sales! It just coincidentally happens that no
industry affected by it ever actually gets those sales increases, which is
due to numerous factors occasionally subject to change if the old ones turn
out to be laughable bullshit, but it's certainly not at all due to
file-sharing because as we all know everybody who illegally downloads stuff
then goes on to buy it except for those people who would never buy anything
ever if they couldn't get it for free which means their lives must've been
very dreary and colourless before since they consumed no entertainment
whatsoever and they probably would have killed themselves so as you can
clearly see FILE-SHARING PREVENTS SUICIDE.
God, those companies worried about how file-sharing affects their bottom
line are SO STUPID.
-
Blade
Blade
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote in message
news:gtmnan$ois$1...@news.motzarella.org...
> Blade wrote:
>
>>
>> By the by, Sea Wasp, overall sales of music are down 8% over the last
>> year.
>
> And?
Oh, I just thought I'd mention it. Since Itunes proves that file-sharing is
no threat to the industry, or so I'd heard.
-
Blade
LBRa...@gmail.com
teens, and my purchases were legal releases by Viz and the other
companies. I admit that this was in the 1990s so the only unofficial
way to get anime was pretty much fansubs and that required a checking
account but I never purchased many fansubs. Its possible to be a teen
and watch anime and read manga legally.
LBRa...@gmail.com
> "Blade" <kumonr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Note that publishers and media people would laugh themselves sick at
> >> the thought of paying attention to what Usenetters think.
>
> > By the by, Sea Wasp, overall sales of music are down 8% over the last
> > year. That's including the increase of sales on Itunes and similar
> > circumstances.
>
> Noticed anything about the economy lately?
>
economy, I think
that the sale of music would be down even if the economy was doing
well. File sharing makes it easier to get the music people want for
free over the internet and tech savy people are likely going to get
the music they want for free if possible. Especially if they do not
have any legal or ethnical quams about file sharing and down loading.
Giovanni Wassen
>> Noticed anything about the economy lately?
>>
> While a certain amount of the decrease in sales is due to the bad
> economy, I think
> that the sale of music would be down even if the economy was doing
> well. File sharing makes it easier to get the music people want for
> free over the internet and tech savy people are likely going to get
> the music they want for free if possible. Especially if they do not
> have any legal or ethnical quams about file sharing and down loading.
I know, but almost all sales are down now, the influence of piracy isn't
clear cut at the moment.
Oh, and btw, downloading an illegal copy of a copyright protected piece of
music, movie or anime is perfectly legal here :)
RLP
wrote:
>Yaniv Tempelman wrote:
>>
>> When I
>> was in my teens, I copied a lot of C64/Amiga games and didn't bother to
>> buy the originals; I didn't have the money and wouldn't have know where
>> to buy them anyway.
>
>And as documented elsewhere (in dead-tree books interviewing the people
>who made your C64 & Amiga games), because of the piracy they stopped
>producing anything for those platforms and went to the consoles or PCs.
>
PC floppies were easier to copy than C64 cartridges. Of course it took
a while for the PC to catch up on graphics.
I worked in Garland Texas at the time the PC became popular and one of
our guys went by a software game manufacturer regularly and got the
latest stuff with all the cheats and porno-hacks. We may have been an
unofficial part of their beta test program.
_______________________________
Anyone who thinks evil mutants
are only in comic books hasn't
raised any children.
Galen
In other news, the winner of the TIME magazine World's Most
Influential Person poll is M00t:
http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/4chan-pwns-time-moot-named-worlds-most-influential-person
mmala...@gmail.com
> "Giovanni Wassen" <exta...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:Xns9C01929DF1...@217.19.16.66...
>
> > "Blade" <kumonr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Note that publishers and media people would laugh themselves sick at
> >>> the thought of paying attention to what Usenetters think.
>
> >> By the by, Sea Wasp, overall sales of music are down 8% over the last
> >> year. That's including the increase of sales on Itunes and similar
> >> circumstances.
>
> > Noticed anything about the economy lately?
>
> Of COURSE it's the economy.
>
> Why, there's nearly always a good reason for the consistent drop of music
> sales over the past decade, year after year. It's a different reason every
> year, but one thing you can be sure of: it's sure not file-sharing!
> File-sharing INCREASES sales! It just coincidentally happens that no
> industry affected by it ever actually gets those sales increases, which is
> due to numerous factors occasionally subject to change if the old ones turn
> out to be laughable bullshit, but it's certainly not at all due to
> file-sharing because as we all know everybody who illegally downloads stuff
> then goes on to buy it except for those people who would never buy anything
> ever if they couldn't get it for free which means their lives must've been
> very dreary and colourless before since they consumed no entertainment
> whatsoever and they probably would have killed themselves so as you can
> clearly see FILE-SHARING PREVENTS SUICIDE.
>
File-sharing saved my pet goldfish.
File-sharing made me popular with women.
File sharing increased the length and girth of my p0n0s.
Bobby Clark
"Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gtmndr$93l$1...@news.albasani.net...
>
>
> "Giovanni Wassen" <ext...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9C01929DF1...@217.19.16.66...
>> "Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Note that publishers and media people would laugh themselves sick at
>>>> the thought of paying attention to what Usenetters think.
>>>
>>> By the by, Sea Wasp, overall sales of music are down 8% over the last
>>> year. That's including the increase of sales on Itunes and similar
>>> circumstances.
>>
>> Noticed anything about the economy lately?
>
> Of COURSE it's the economy.
>
> Why, there's nearly always a good reason for the consistent drop of music
> sales over the past decade, year after year. It's a different reason every
> year, but one thing you can be sure of: it's sure not file-sharing!
It's called FM radio: I don't have time to listen at home and in my primary
market there are enough radio stations that one can flip around and find
something good most of the time. It's called used stores: We also buy most
of our real CDs from used stores. Have for years. The market has changed
its way of doing something. The music folks have not kept up with the
times. Shame on them. Stop selling CDs for $18.00 a disk and I might come
back as a new customer. Funny thing is I purchased more new CDs as a kid
before I understood how over priced $18 a disk was. They lost me for good
reason, not for file sharing.
Bobby
paul_0090
You forgot to mention the exodus from Atari....
But there was more piracy with the Apple II & nothing hurt it
until the the PC came along.
Then the PC became the computer of choice with the corporations.
sanjian
> "Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:gtmndr$93l$1...@news.albasani.net...
> It's called FM radio: I don't have time to listen at home and in my
> primary market there are enough radio stations that one can flip
> around and find something good most of the time. It's called used
> stores: We also buy most of our real CDs from used stores. Have for
> years. The market has changed its way of doing something. The music
> folks have not kept up with the times. Shame on them. Stop selling
> CDs for $18.00 a disk and I might come back as a new customer. Funny
> thing is I purchased more new CDs as a kid before I understood how
> over priced $18 a disk was. They lost me for good reason, not for
> file sharing.
> Bobby
I've got a few friends who will only buy RIAA music second-hand.
Personally, I think music in America has gotten so bad that I only listen to
Country, anymore. And even that's starting to get too pop-ish.
Blade
"Bobby Clark" <bclark@REMOVE4_airmail.net> wrote in message
news:COmdndGDbIN0lGLU...@posted.internetamerica...
>
> "Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:gtmndr$93l$1...@news.albasani.net...
>> Of COURSE it's the economy.
>>
>> Why, there's nearly always a good reason for the consistent drop of music
>> sales over the past decade, year after year. It's a different reason
>> every year, but one thing you can be sure of: it's sure not file-sharing!
>
> It's called FM radio: I don't have time to listen at home and in my
> primary market there are enough radio stations that one can flip around
> and find something good most of the time. It's called used stores: We
> also buy most of our real CDs from used stores. Have for years. The
> market has changed its way of doing something. The music folks have not
> kept up with the times. Shame on them. Stop selling CDs for $18.00 a
> disk and I might come back as a new customer. Funny thing is I purchased
> more new CDs as a kid before I understood how over priced $18 a disk was.
> They lost me for good reason, not for file sharing.
That's totally cool. However...
Everything you mentioned existed long before file-sharing became popular.
The severe contraction of the music industry (and the collapse of record
stores) didn't begin then. Therefore, they are not significant contributing
factors to the current changes in the situation. Same goes for the anime
industry.
-
Blade
sanjian
> "Giovanni Wassen" <ext...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns9C01929DF1...@217.19.16.66...
>> "Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> Note that publishers and media people would laugh themselves sick
>>>> at the thought of paying attention to what Usenetters think.
>>>
>>> By the by, Sea Wasp, overall sales of music are down 8% over the
>>> last year. That's including the increase of sales on Itunes and
>>> similar circumstances.
>>
>> Noticed anything about the economy lately?
>
> Of COURSE it's the economy.
Do you deny that the economy doesn't play a role?
> Why, there's nearly always a good reason for the consistent drop of
> music sales over the past decade, year after year. It's a different
You didn't say decade, you said year. Don't complain if Giovanni directly
addressed the issue you brought up.
Astrobiochemist
> > I'd be an idiot if I said I was surprised, but it's still depressing...
>
> You should be surprised. Most people who watch fansubs go on to buy the
> anime! It's a shocking rarity when they don't! I know, because I hear that
> here every single time the discussion comes up.
>
> Obviously your forum is composed only of statistical outliers! Or they're
> all not from North America, where as we all know it's impossible to buy
> anime! Or they're desperately poor starving African orphans clinging to the
> Internet on a router made from mud and cow dung! Or the dog ate their anime
> expenditure money!
Weren't there a huge number of downloads for the fansubs of Love Hina
and very few sales of the DVDs? I recall a conversation where someone
mentioned that and the reply to them was along the lines of "Well, of
course. Everyone had high hopes for the anime because the manga was
great but the anime version was terrible. Once everyone saw how
terrible the show was on fansub, no one would buy the DVDs."
Didn't a similar thing happen with Witch Hunter Robin but entirely in
the US? What I mean is, Witch Hunter Robin was shown on Cartoon
Network around the time of the first DVD and sales were pretty good.
Then, the show continued and it was terrible, so when the rest of the
DVDs came out, their sales were much lower than the first DVD sales
had been.
So, basically, the rule seems to be that DVD sales are much lower than
expected when the anime is bad. And really, wouldn't that always be
the case?
(I saw a stand-up comedian several years ago who was commenting on the
outcry by Hollywood that their previous years movie revenues had
dropped and that piracy was to blame. No, the comedian said, the
reason they didn't make money the previous year was because they
didn't make any good movies that year.)
Astrobiochemist
>
> - Though technically you pay for cable and internet service, that
> might still be included as "$0 spent"; so Cartoon Network, Adult Swim,
> Sci-Fi, Hulu, Joost, and Cruchyroll are among the others covered there
> . . .
>
> - People might still be going through anime they bought long ago and
> are yet to get into; I know I have more than a few DVDs yet to be
> viewed, or viewed fully . . .
>
> Sometimes explanations are simple, and certainly not sinister,
> especially as more and more people are forced to stretch every dollar
> . . .
Right. There was a thread back in January about how much people spent
on Anime in December 2008 and when replying, I realized that I had
only bought one anime in ALL of 2008 and that was a gift. I had
received several boxsets in 2008 but those were gifts from friends.
So, if asked how much I spent on anime for myself in the past year, it
would be $0.
Additionally, with video on demand and DVR, I can catch a lot of anime
on TV and watch it at my leisure for free, legally.
Also, there was a thread some time ago about rewatching anime in your
collection. I have tons of anime DVDs that I bought years ago and
haven't watched in ages. I haven't watched Escaflowne in nearly a
decade, I haven't watch Cowboy Bebop in 4 years and Cardcaptor Sakura
in more than three years. Right now, I have almost no money so when I
finally have some free time, I'm watching my old DVDs rather than
buying new things.
Dave Watson
> I've got a few friends who will only buy RIAA music second-hand.
> Personally, I think music in America has gotten so bad that I only listen to
> Country, anymore. And even that's starting to get too pop-ish.
I should make more of a conscientious effort to keep from throwing the
RIAA/CRIA-holes my money, but the collectors' edition of TV On The
Radio's Dear Science and the reissues (with bonus discs) of the first
few Radiohead and U2 albums aren't going to turn up used anytime
soon. I did get lucky with the last couple of Rush albums, though.
That's about the extent of my mainstream music buying, though.
Watson
Oh, who also picked up comps by Grandmaster Flash (2 CDs) and Bob
Dylan (3 CDs), the SE of Gnarls Barkley's _St. Elsewhere_ (CD + DVD)
and Bjork's _Volta_...for $6.88 CAD each at branches of a discount
store. See, he told you he has to buy everything as cheap as he can.
Bobby Clark
"sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in message
news:wKidnWDm3dxAgGLU...@posted.internetamerica...
> Bobby Clark wrote:
>> "Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:gtmndr$93l$1...@news.albasani.net...
>
>> It's called FM radio: I don't have time to listen at home and in my
>> primary market there are enough radio stations that one can flip
>> around and find something good most of the time. It's called used
>> stores: We also buy most of our real CDs from used stores. Have for
>> years. The market has changed its way of doing something. The music
>> folks have not kept up with the times. Shame on them. Stop selling
>> CDs for $18.00 a disk and I might come back as a new customer. Funny
>> thing is I purchased more new CDs as a kid before I understood how
>> over priced $18 a disk was. They lost me for good reason, not for
>> file sharing.
>> Bobby
>
> I've got a few friends who will only buy RIAA music second-hand.
That is an Interesting point. I had stopped buying lots of new stuff before
the RIAA became such a big problem. There are a few artists that I buy new,
but those are very few and far between. I can see there being a backlash to
the draconian tactics the RIAA is using today.
> Personally, I think music in America has gotten so bad that I only listen
> to Country, anymore. And even that's starting to get too pop-ish.
The styles that are popular have to do with some of my disinterest in the
current crop of artist. I can relate to that.
Bobby
>
>
Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers
> God, those companies worried about how file-sharing affects their
> bottom line are SO STUPID.
Not half as stupid as your rants. Funny how you never manage to come up
with facts to back up your ranting.
cu
59cobalt
--
"My surname is Li and my personal name is Kao, and there is a slight
flaw in my character."
--Li Kao (Barry Hughart: Bridge of Birds)
sanjian
> "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in message
> news:wKidnWDm3dxAgGLU...@posted.internetamerica...
>> Bobby Clark wrote:
>>> "Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:gtmndr$93l$1...@news.albasani.net...
>>
>>> It's called FM radio: I don't have time to listen at home and in my
>>> primary market there are enough radio stations that one can flip
>>> around and find something good most of the time. It's called used
>>> stores: We also buy most of our real CDs from used stores. Have for
>>> years. The market has changed its way of doing something. The
>>> music folks have not kept up with the times. Shame on them. Stop
>>> selling CDs for $18.00 a disk and I might come back as a new
>>> customer. Funny thing is I purchased more new CDs as a kid before
>>> I understood how over priced $18 a disk was. They lost me for good
>>> reason, not for file sharing.
>>> Bobby
>>
>> I've got a few friends who will only buy RIAA music second-hand.
>
> That is an Interesting point. I had stopped buying lots of new stuff
> before the RIAA became such a big problem. There are a few artists
> that I buy new, but those are very few and far between. I can see
> there being a backlash to the draconian tactics the RIAA is using
> today.
It's one of those things where the RIAA may have a right to enforce its
copyrights. But that doesn't mean it should do so without regard to HOW it
does it.
>> Personally, I think music in America has gotten so bad that I only
>> listen to Country, anymore. And even that's starting to get too
>> pop-ish.
>
> The styles that are popular have to do with some of my disinterest in
> the current crop of artist. I can relate to that.
I've mostly given up on contemporary music and stick with Hate Radio or Dave
Ramsey (who the lenders probaby consider to be hate radio).
Warewolf
news:7n0tv4pdk439hpbm6...@4ax.com:
> Let's see:
>
> - Though technically you pay for cable and internet service, that
> might still be included as "$0 spent"; so Cartoon Network, Adult Swim,
> Sci-Fi, Hulu, Joost, and Cruchyroll are among the others covered there
> . . .
>
> - People might still be going through anime they bought long ago and
> are yet to get into; I know I have more than a few DVDs yet to be
> viewed, or viewed fully . . .
>
> Sometimes explanations are simple, and certainly not sinister,
> especially as more and more people are forced to stretch every dollar
> . . .
Two details that slipped my mind when I wrote my last post. ^_^;
Thank you for pointing them out. ^_^
Signed,
Warewolf
who has yet to view his box sets of Slayers Next, Heat Guy J and Lupin the
3rd.
(Futurama and the first 3 Looney Tunes Golden Collections come first,
though) ^_^;
Warewolf
news:gtmndr$93l$1...@news.albasani.net:
Blade, my friend, if this post and your previous one weren't laced with a
healthy amount of sarcasm, I'd call them two of the most intelligent
posts I have read on the subject in a long, *LONG* time. ^_^
*gives your jaw a soft 'punch'*
I won't ask what caused this change of heart since I'm certain that such
a miracle will be fleeting. ~_^
Still, such efforts are deserving of a suitable reward.
*conjures up the finest Dim Sum feast this side of 'Don Mee's Tea House'*
Welcome to the world outside yon royal sheathe.
*applause*
Warewolf
>
> "Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:gtmndr$93l$1...@news.albasani.net...
>
>> Why, there's nearly always a good reason for the consistent drop of
>> music sales over the past decade, year after year. It's a different
>> reason every year, but one thing you can be sure of: it's sure not
>> file-sharing!
>
> It's called FM radio: I don't have time to listen at home and in my
> primary market there are enough radio stations that one can flip
> around and find something good most of the time. It's called used
> stores: We also buy most of our real CDs from used stores. Have for
> years. The market has changed its way of doing something. The music
> folks have not kept up with the times. Shame on them. Stop selling
> CDs for $18.00 a disk and I might come back as a new customer. Funny
> thing is I purchased more new CDs as a kid before I understood how
> over priced $18 a disk was. They lost me for good reason, not for
> file sharing.
That doesn't mean that they won't keep trying to 'fill' that particular
'pot hole', especially with a certain president's help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uf7YPSsWdqs
o/~ If you think things cannot get any dumber o/`
Parrot: Ba-*RAWK*
o/`Oh, bummer o/`
c64...@hotmail.com
> "Bobby Clark" <bclark@REMOVE4_airmail.net> wrote in message
>
> news:COmdndGDbIN0lGLU...@posted.internetamerica...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Actually, if you look at history, you see there's nothing new here.
Vinyl Sales reached their peak as Cassette sales began to climb.
Cassette sales reached thier peak as CD sales began to climb. CD
sales, not surprisingly, peaks as digital sales began to climb (CD
sales peaked around the same time that Itunes was introduced). Since
digital distribution does not required B&M stores, it's also not
surprising that there would be a collapse in such stores as sales
shift from CDs to digital download. Economics 101 would tell you as
much.
Blade
"Astrobiochemist" <CCSB...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bcf4d1c8-0947-4dc0...@z19g2000vbz.googlegroups.com...
> So, basically, the rule seems to be that DVD sales are much lower than
> expected when the anime is bad. And really, wouldn't that always be
> the case?
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha no.
> (I saw a stand-up comedian several years ago who was commenting on the
> outcry by Hollywood that their previous years movie revenues had
> dropped and that piracy was to blame. No, the comedian said, the
> reason they didn't make money the previous year was because they
> didn't make any good movies that year.)
Of COURSE they didn't.
They only made good movies/books/music/anime when you were young.
Conveniently, that is equally true no matter what age you are!
-
Blade
Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers
> who has yet to view his box sets of Slayers Next, Heat Guy J and Lupin
> the 3rd.
I can see why someone would want to watch "Slayers Next" or "Lupin the
3rd". But "HeatGuy J"? Granted I didn't watch past the first two
episodes, but the show had some of the most unappealing protagonists
ever.
Blade
"sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in message
news:4fqdneiWc67jg2LU...@posted.internetamerica...
> Blade wrote:
>> "Giovanni Wassen" <ext...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Xns9C01929DF1...@217.19.16.66...
>>> "Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> By the by, Sea Wasp, overall sales of music are down 8% over the
>>>> last year. That's including the increase of sales on Itunes and
>>>> similar circumstances.
>>>
>>> Noticed anything about the economy lately?
>>
>> Of COURSE it's the economy.
>
> Do you deny that the economy doesn't play a role?
Yep.
To elaborate:
I deny it plays a primary role, because this is pretty much a continuation
of an economic trend that started before the economy collapsed, and one that
is mirrored in other countries, other industries, and other industries in
other countries.
It makes a really good excuse, though. Just like all the others! I wonder
what the excuse will be in a year or two when the economy recovers!
>> Why, there's nearly always a good reason for the consistent drop of
>> music sales over the past decade, year after year. It's a different
>
> You didn't say decade, you said year. Don't complain if Giovanni directly
> addressed the issue you brought up.
Yes. I was referring specifically to Sea Wasp's prior claim that Itunes
"proves" that online distribution is the WAVE OF THE FUTUR and that the only
stupid doodyhead companies will suffer from current bonanza of pirating
copyrighted material. Giovanni didn't really address that, though in
fairness, I don't expect him/her to have necessarily known the context of my
quip.
-
Blade
Bill Martin
> From the MyAnimeList.Net forums:
>
> http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=83015&show=0
>
> Over half of them said they spend $0 on anime per month.
> I'd be an idiot if I said I was surprised, but it's still depressing...
Know what's depressing? Not making enough to spend on anime...
The only contributions I've made in the past few months are a few bucks
a month on rentals.
Astrobiochemist
> > expected when the anime is bad. And really, wouldn't that always be
> > the case?
>
> Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha no.
I'm not saying that bad anime can't sell well (although, looking back,
that does seem to be how I phrased it. Whoops). I'm just saying that
when an anticipated anime does not sell well, it's the quality of the
anime that is most likely the cause, rather than due to anything else.
> > (I saw a stand-up comedian several years ago who was commenting on the
> > outcry by Hollywood that their previous years movie revenues had
> > dropped and that piracy was to blame. No, the comedian said, the
> > reason they didn't make money the previous year was because they
> > didn't make any good movies that year.)
>
> Of COURSE they didn't.
>
> They only made good movies/books/music/anime when you were young.
>
> Conveniently, that is equally true no matter what age you are!
No, I still think good things are made today. Code Geass was good.
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya was good. The Dark Knight was
good. Hulk was good. Good things still come out. However, a lot of
crap comes out and occasionally, there are times when the only things
coming out aren't any good.
Giovanni Wassen
> Warewolf <warewol...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>> who has yet to view his box sets of Slayers Next, Heat Guy J and Lupin
>> the 3rd.
>
> I can see why someone would want to watch "Slayers Next" or "Lupin the
> 3rd". But "HeatGuy J"? Granted I didn't watch past the first two
> episodes, but the show had some of the most unappealing protagonists
> ever.
Hm, this was EUR 12,99 thrown away? :)
Blade
"Astrobiochemist" <CCSB...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b680bf92-34f4-409a...@q14g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
>> > So, basically, the rule seems to be that DVD sales are much lower than
>> > expected when the anime is bad. And really, wouldn't that always be
>> > the case?
>>
>> Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha no.
>
>
> I'm not saying that bad anime can't sell well (although, looking back,
> that does seem to be how I phrased it. Whoops). I'm just saying that
> when an anticipated anime does not sell well, it's the quality of the
> anime that is most likely the cause, rather than due to anything else.
I'd say there's a whole slew of possible causes why an anime doesn't sell
well, and "quality" is only one of them, and far from the most important.
Several anime that are fan favourites ended up being money pits for the
companies who licensed them. And many anime that were popular with
fansubbers never quite translated that popularity into sales.
More to the point, the entire anime industry has been in steep decline for
several years now, on both sides of the Pacific. Partly this is due to bad
business practice. And partly this is due to the fact people can easily get
whatever they want to watch for free.
>> > (I saw a stand-up comedian several years ago who was commenting on the
>> > outcry by Hollywood that their previous years movie revenues had
>> > dropped and that piracy was to blame. No, the comedian said, the
>> > reason they didn't make money the previous year was because they
>> > didn't make any good movies that year.)
>>
>> Of COURSE they didn't.
>>
>> They only made good movies/books/music/anime when you were young.
>>
>> Conveniently, that is equally true no matter what age you are!
>
> No, I still think good things are made today. Code Geass was good.
> The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya was good. The Dark Knight was
> good. Hulk was good. Good things still come out. However, a lot of
> crap comes out and occasionally, there are times when the only things
> coming out aren't any good.
Define "good". Objectively.
-
Blade
Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers
> Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers <usene...@planetcobalt.net> wrote:
>> Warewolf <warewol...@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>> who has yet to view his box sets of Slayers Next, Heat Guy J and Lupin
>>> the 3rd.
>>
>> I can see why someone would want to watch "Slayers Next" or "Lupin the
>> 3rd". But "HeatGuy J"? Granted I didn't watch past the first two
>> episodes, but the show had some of the most unappealing protagonists
>> ever.
>
> Hm, this was EUR 12,99 thrown away? :)
Not for me, since I watched it on television.
sanjian
> "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in message
> news:4fqdneiWc67jg2LU...@posted.internetamerica...
>> Blade wrote:
>>> "Giovanni Wassen" <ext...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Xns9C01929DF1...@217.19.16.66...
>>>> "Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> By the by, Sea Wasp, overall sales of music are down 8% over the
>>>>> last year. That's including the increase of sales on Itunes and
>>>>> similar circumstances.
>>>>
>>>> Noticed anything about the economy lately?
>>>
>>> Of COURSE it's the economy.
>>
>> Do you deny that the economy doesn't play a role?
>
> Yep.
>
> To elaborate:
>
> I deny it plays a primary role, because this is pretty much a
> continuation of an economic trend that started before the economy
> collapsed, and one that is mirrored in other countries, other
> industries, and other industries in other countries.
See, that's a bit different than the point I think Giovanni was responding
to. And, in this case, you may have a point. Though, I think the "why buy
the cow" argument is a bit less significant than you do. There are quite a
few other factors, including the popping of the anime bubble, the
over-flooded marketplace (I used to try to buy everything... I simply can't
do so anymore), the increased availability of anime rentals and anime on the
tube, and those of us who are simply demanding better value for our money
than we used to. Even if there were no fansubs, I simply would not pay what
I used to for anime. I was young, stupid, and easy to rip off, back then.
> It makes a really good excuse, though. Just like all the others! I
> wonder what the excuse will be in a year or two when the economy
> recovers!
Oh ye of excessive faith.
Anyways, there are far more factors than just fansubs at play. Not all of
them are "excuses."
>>> Why, there's nearly always a good reason for the consistent drop of
>>> music sales over the past decade, year after year. It's a different
>>
>> You didn't say decade, you said year. Don't complain if Giovanni
>> directly addressed the issue you brought up.
>
> Yes. I was referring specifically to Sea Wasp's prior claim that
> Itunes "proves" that online distribution is the WAVE OF THE FUTUR and
> that the only stupid doodyhead companies will suffer from current
> bonanza of pirating copyrighted material. Giovanni didn't really
> address that, though in fairness, I don't expect him/her to have
> necessarily known the context of my quip.
As threads grow, it's sometimes hard to keep track of who said what and
which parts of their prior statements are being addressed.
Bobby Clark
>
>
> "Astrobiochemist" <CCSB...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:b680bf92-34f4-409a...@q14g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
>>> > So, basically, the rule seems to be that DVD sales are much lower than
>>> > expected when the anime is bad. And really, wouldn't that always be
>>> > the case?
>>>
>>> Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha no.
>>
>>
>> I'm not saying that bad anime can't sell well (although, looking back,
>> that does seem to be how I phrased it. Whoops). I'm just saying that
>> when an anticipated anime does not sell well, it's the quality of the
>> anime that is most likely the cause, rather than due to anything else.
>
> I'd say there's a whole slew of possible causes why an anime doesn't sell
> well, and "quality" is only one of them, and far from the most important.
Quality has a lot to do with it. I buy a lot of series; however I have been
burned a few times. The art work on the box is not necessarily
representative of the show inside the box. ADV has recycled a few duds that
way, so now I will not in most cases just buy it with out researching it
before hand. For me quality is very important. Many of the US companies
purchased sorry titles and then wondered why no one was buying.
> Several anime that are fan favourites ended up being money pits for the
> companies who licensed them. And many anime that were popular with
> fansubbers never quite translated that popularity into sales.
I would agree. Many programs would not have a broad North American
audience. Ichigo 100% had a fantastic draw for the fan scans of the manga.
So much so that multiple Border stores were carrying the Japanese versions
in the bricks and mortar stores in the US. 4 years later we get a release
in English. While I am buying it, I know most of the interest is past now
based on the number of issues that never move at the local book stores. If
it had been released 4 years ago, it would have captured the market and sold
out like crazy. Some of the releases here are so slow it is not even funny.
Even VIZ is taking its time with We Were There.
>
> More to the point, the entire anime industry has been in steep decline for
> several years now, on both sides of the Pacific. Partly this is due to bad
> business practice. And partly this is due to the fact people can easily
> get whatever they want to watch for free.
I don't agree, the Japanese decline is widely attributed to the Population
decline in Japan. I don't think that is the problem in the US. Several of
the companies, namely Geneon had attempted to milk the US market. They
changed the pricing structure from a street price of about $20.00 a DVD to a
street price of about $30.00 a DVD back around 2003 to 2004. I for one
refused to pay it. We only complete shows we were already watching. We
never started some shows because of it. There are a number of Geneon
releases we just did not ever get the first disk of due to the price.
Bobby
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
>
> Yes. I was referring specifically to Sea Wasp's prior claim that Itunes
> "proves" that online distribution is the WAVE OF THE FUTUR
Wrong.
It proves that Dorkstar's model of "no one would EVER pay for anything
they could steal for free" is 100% wrong.
Whether it's truly the Wave of the Future remains to be seen. I suspect
the real wave of the future is ad-supported free sites and similar
things. That's basically Hulu's model.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Yaniv Tempelman
>> When I
>> was in my teens, I copied a lot of C64/Amiga games and didn't bother to
>> buy the originals; I didn't have the money and wouldn't have know where
>> to buy them anyway.
>>
>> --
> I started watching anime and reading manga when I was in my
> teens, and my purchases were legal releases by Viz and the other
> companies. I admit that this was in the 1990s so the only unofficial
> way to get anime was pretty much fansubs and that required a checking
> account but I never purchased many fansubs. Its possible to be a teen
> and watch anime and read manga legally.
I won't deny that it's possible for a teen to watch and read manga
legally. I started to collect legal manga and anime in the early
nineties myself and spent a lot of my small allowance on it. There was
however a major difference to nowadays: Anime and Manga were hard to
get, at least here in Europe (fansubs were mostly an american phenomenon
and unheard of in France or Germany). I guess it was the same in America
as well. The purchase of anime, manga and of other merchandising was
therefore part of the whole excitement. The difficult circumstances
brought along that we fans developped a natural collector's spirit for
any of the few existing legal releases. Nowadays however, especially
with the rise of fansubs and scanlations, anime and manga have become
ubiquitous and this alone makes them, at least speaking of legal anime
releases, less desireable as collector items for teens. You have a lot
of teens enjoying anime a lot, but few of them are fan enough to
actually spend money on it. Many saw anime the first time either via
television or by illegal means. Why should anyone therefore expect
they'd spend money on something which has always been free for them? I
personally wish they'd spend more money on it but I understand why they
don't. As for the collector's spirit, it still ist part of fandom but
has now shifted more to secondary merchandising like figurines, posters
or manga instead of legal anime releases.
--
Yaniv Tempelman
Bobby Clark
> Blade wrote:
>> "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in message
>> news:4fqdneiWc67jg2LU...@posted.internetamerica...
>>> Blade wrote:
>>>> "Giovanni Wassen" <ext...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:Xns9C01929DF1...@217.19.16.66...
>>>>> "Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> By the by, Sea Wasp, overall sales of music are down 8% over the
>>>>>> last year. That's including the increase of sales on Itunes and
>>>>>> similar circumstances.
>>>>>
>>>>> Noticed anything about the economy lately?
>>>>
>>>> Of COURSE it's the economy.
>>>
>>> Do you deny that the economy doesn't play a role?
>>
>> Yep.
>>
>> To elaborate:
>>
>> I deny it plays a primary role, because this is pretty much a
>> continuation of an economic trend that started before the economy
>> collapsed, and one that is mirrored in other countries, other
>> industries, and other industries in other countries.
>
> See, that's a bit different than the point I think Giovanni was responding
> to. And, in this case, you may have a point. Though, I think the "why
> buy the cow" argument is a bit less significant than you do. There are
> quite a few other factors, including the popping of the anime bubble, the
> over-flooded marketplace
It truly is over flooded with titles. About half of what is available holds
no interest for me. Another quarter is only somewhat interesting.
>(I used to try to buy everything... I simply can't do so anymore),
I did not buy everything, but did by a few duds because the box looked good
and I did not research the title prior to buying. I now research for price
and content to a much greater degree than I ever did before. I am also
checking for dub, format and extras now as well to a much greater degree.
> the increased availability of anime rentals and anime on the tube, and
> those of us who are simply demanding better value for our money than we
> used to. Even if there were no fansubs, I simply would not pay what I
> used to for anime.
I have a break point of about $20.00 for 2 hours of content. And that needs
to include a first rate English dub. By now we have all been exposed to the
12 to 25 hours of subbed only anime being released for about $30.00. I do
miss a well done English dub, but not enough to pay $30.00 for 2 hours.
Bobby
Bobby Clark
"Bobby Clark" <bclark@REMOVE4_airmail.net> wrote in message
That should have read 12 to 25 episodes. Sorry,
Bobby
Doug Jacobs
> 1) How many of those posters, to your knowledge, live in North America?
I'd bet over 90%.
> 2) How many series with box sets (out of the ones that make it across the
> proveribal border to the shops in their area) are still being broadcast
> by the various networks (in some heavily butchered form)?
Watching anime legitimately on, say, Cartoon Network is one thing, but I
see way too many requests on Yahoo for folks looking for episodes of
current shows (Naruto, Deathnote, FMA, etc) online where they can stream
them. The daughter of a friend of mine managed to watch just about all of
Naruto up to Shippuden on YouTube a few summers ago. Her parents wouldn't
pay for cable, so she couldn't get Cartoon Network. She was buying the
manga in English as it was being released, but as we all know, release
schedules are annoyingly slow for most fans.
> 3) After all the censorship (read: americanization) that has been
> performed on past anime series (*cough*OnePiece*hack*), what makes you
> think that the 'average viewer' (when not distracted by farmed-out
> american series or cheated by other 'Complete Series' box sets) is going
> to purchase a series or OAV that he/she is not familiar with (even if
> he/she or another family member reads this group and/or its Anime
> Primer)?
Separate issues.
The US anime DVD market is stupid, and definitely not fan friendly.
Companies release a show 1 disc at a time, not even providing 2 hours of
content, for $25/disc, then release a box set later on for 60% less than
what the single discs cost. That's not fan-friendly. And anime prices have
gone UP, while domestic DVDs have decreased by a lot. Anime on Blu-Ray is
priced identically to what you'd expect in Japan. Priced at $50-$100 a
disc, which puts it out of the reach of all but the most rich of anime
fans. But that doesn't matter...in Japan anyways. The bread and butter of
most anime series is from merchandising - books, models, figures, toys,
games, t-shirts, pencil boxes, pen boards, stationary, eye drops(!) - you
name it, an anime character has sold it. We don't have that over here.
Instead, the US companies are pretty much 100% depending on the DVD
releases to earn back the original investment monies and turn a profit.
Of course, as you point out, how can you go dropping money on a series
you've never heard of - which is often the justification used by the
companies for the single disc releases. Then again, with things like
Netflix, for the price of 1 anime DVD (!) you can try out several
different series in a single month.
> I may be speaking for myself here but, let's face it, after seeing what
> the animation studios (and their fans) are capable of via series like
> Daria, Batman:TAS and Spice City, why should I spend my hard-earned cash
> on what is basically either a toy commercial, a 'punching bag comedy' or
> an overrated snoozefest?
>
> I *used* to enjoy Astro Boy/Mighty Atom and Star Blazers/Space Cruiser
> Yamato when I was a kid but I've out grown them since then. What I'm
> looking for these days are OAVs and series that do more than build on
> past achievements - I'd like them to redefine the very 'essence' of the
> term.
Then you're looking in the wrong places because there's certainly a lot of
anime that would meet your vague criteria. And a few of such shows even
made it to the US (shock! surprise!)
> Daria, for example, wasn't just about a cynical teenager making her way
> through (and mark on) a new high school. It was a reminder of how
> funny/twisted we humans can be. (In fact, with a little 'tweaking', it
> could have offered far stranger tales than its musical and holiday
> episodes) ^_^;
>
> Batman:TAS did more than redefine decades-old staples in the comic book
> industry. It displayed them as tragic individuals that the viewers could
> relate to and, in some ways, pity.
>
> And Spicy City, even with its (overly?) titilating pilot, made science-
> fiction - a genre overstuffed with badly-written 'cautionary tales' -
> enjoyable to view/read once more.
>
> If there are anime series (or even manga equivalents) that can deliver
> what these unorthodox examples offer then perhaps the remaining
> publishers that offer them will see some semblance of profit.
Again, there's tons of anime that meets your criteria. That you haven't
been exposed to it is a separate problem.
But look at the examples you list - 3 shows from what, the past 15-20
years? (how old is Daria or Batman:TAS anyways?) In the US, animation
is mainly targetted at kids 6-12. Even attempts at more "adult" oriented
shows results in things like South Park and Drawn Together. It's pretty
much the same way as "adult" video games seem to only convey more and more
outrageous violence.
Even though there are such unusual and interesting shows, that doesn't
mean they're going to show a profit.
You'd probably enjoy Paranoia Agent which practically defies explanation
due to its layered meanings and outright bizzare visuals. It even showed
up on Adult Swim awhile back. I don't think it was a big hit - too many
folks just wanted more Inuyasha. I'm partially relieved that Eva didn't
do so well, otherwise we'd be suffering through endless reruns of that...
I suspsect, though, the Eva fans are too busy fawning over DVD version 2.3
update 3, build 45 of the story to take notice of Adult Swim and the time
it showed the "old" version.
The fandom has gotten to the point where it's really not a single organism
anymore. You're definitely starting to see sub-fandoms emerge. It's like
a sci-fi con. Just as you're going to have contingents of Star
Wars and Star Trek fans, now you're seeing the same sort of thing happen
in anime cons. You've got your yaoi fans, your series-specific fans
(Bleach, Naruto, Inuyasha, etc.) your cosplayers, your video game fans,
etc.
> At the moment, though, some of the series that I enjoyed online (ie
> Ultimate Girls) are not currently available (or likely ever will be.
> Thank you, politics). }X^?
If you found out that one of these shows you're watching online via fansub
or even raw via someone's DVR in Japan, had been licensed for the
US...would you buy it? That's the problem.
About 6 years ago, a friend of mine heard about this strange series in Japan
called 'Hare nochi Guu' (now in the US as 'Hale and Guu'). Almost a year
after I finished watching the show online, it got licensed and started
showing up on shelves about 6 months later. A few years ago, I finally
saw the complete box set for sale - that's 4 years after I originally
watched the show! I didn't have the money to buy it at the time, and now
I can't find it on shelves. So...what am I do? Go and download the show
again and burn it to DVD? Sheesh...
Hare & Guu would be a good show for Adult Swim. It's unexpectedly
strange.
--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.
Bobby Clark
"Doug Jacobs" <dja...@rawbw.com> wrote in message
news:vqOdnYBjjaTC8WLU...@posted.rawbandwidth...
This has been true for some time. Anime CONs in Dallas were already devided
up in 2002/2003. There are more divisions now with larger bases than then,
but the trend was there a while ago.
>
>> At the moment, though, some of the series that I enjoyed online (ie
>> Ultimate Girls) are not currently available (or likely ever will be.
>> Thank you, politics). }X^?
>
> If you found out that one of these shows you're watching online via fansub
> or even raw via someone's DVR in Japan, had been licensed for the
> US...would you buy it?
We have. Tsubasa is one. We wrote in Tsubasa at the Funimation table. I
loved it on fan sub and continue to love the Funi release. Karin, Ichigo
100% for the Manga, Fate Stay the Night, Death Note and Tenjo Tenji to name
a few.
Bobby
Blade
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote in message
news:gtnoii$2ab$1...@news.motzarella.org...
> Blade wrote:
>>
>
>> Yes. I was referring specifically to Sea Wasp's prior claim that Itunes
>> "proves" that online distribution is the WAVE OF THE FUTUR
>
> Wrong.
>
> It proves that Dorkstar's model of "no one would EVER pay for anything
> they could steal for free" is 100% wrong.
I don't pay attention to him or people who are arguing with him. I am
referring to the "proof" you said Itunes provided a few weeks back.
> Whether it's truly the Wave of the Future remains to be seen. I suspect
> the real wave of the future is ad-supported free sites and similar things.
> That's basically Hulu's model.
Possibly. That's been a very, very mixed bag in terms of profitability.
-
Blade
Galen
wrote:
>
>About 6 years ago, a friend of mine heard about this strange series in Japan
>called 'Hare nochi Guu' (now in the US as 'Hale and Guu'). Almost a year
>after I finished watching the show online, it got licensed and started
>showing up on shelves about 6 months later. A few years ago, I finally
>saw the complete box set for sale - that's 4 years after I originally
>watched the show! I didn't have the money to buy it at the time, and now
>I can't find it on shelves. So...what am I do? Go and download the show
>again and burn it to DVD? Sheesh...
Hare+Guu DVD Box Set (Hyb)
Welcome to the jungle, the peaceful home of fun-loving ten-year-old
Hare. That is, until Guu moves in. She may look like an innocent
orphan girl to everyone else, but only Hare knows that Guu is really a
pan-dimensional, mind-reading, magic-using monster with a sarcastic
wit and an unlimited appetite!
Contains all 26 episodes!
Spoken Languages: English, Japanese, English subtitles.
* Age Rating - 13+ More Information
* 650 Minutes
* Format - Hybrid
* Media - DVD
* Product Availability - In Stock and Available
* Publisher - FUNIMATION
Have questions? Send us some feedback!
Submit your own review of this item.
Retail Price: $99.98
Your Price:
Quantity:
Item: anhgbx2
>
>Hare & Guu would be a good show for Adult Swim. It's unexpectedly
>strange.
On sale this week from Right Stuf, along with all other Funi titles.
Blade
"sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in message
news:cqydnRAXOd1f_GLU...@posted.internetamerica...
> Blade wrote:
>> "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in message
>> news:4fqdneiWc67jg2LU...@posted.internetamerica...
>>> Blade wrote:
>> I deny it plays a primary role, because this is pretty much a
>> continuation of an economic trend that started before the economy
>> collapsed, and one that is mirrored in other countries, other
>> industries, and other industries in other countries.
>
> See, that's a bit different than the point I think Giovanni was responding
> to. And, in this case, you may have a point. Though, I think the "why
> buy the cow" argument is a bit less significant than you do. There are
> quite a few other factors, including the popping of the anime bubble, the
> over-flooded marketplace (I used to try to buy everything... I simply
> can't do so anymore), the increased availability of anime rentals and
> anime on the tube, and those of us who are simply demanding better value
> for our money than we used to. Even if there were no fansubs, I simply
> would not pay what I used to for anime. I was young, stupid, and easy to
> rip off, back then.
You DON'T pay what you used to for anime. I know. I bought Blue Seed on VHS
and every year ADV makes me feel, yet again, what an idiot I was for buying
13 tapes at $30+ each.
And yes, of course there are other factors. But piracy is a big factor. A
big, consistently negative factor in every area that it effects, from anime
to music to PC software to PSP games. More than anything else in the debate,
it is the refusal of certain people to admit that piracy is overall bad for
business that infuriates me.
>> It makes a really good excuse, though. Just like all the others! I
>> wonder what the excuse will be in a year or two when the economy
>> recovers!
>
> Oh ye of excessive faith.
Hee hee. I wondered if you'd say something like that. :)
> Anyways, there are far more factors than just fansubs at play. Not all of
> them are "excuses."
No, there are indeed other factors at play. But the consistant drop in sales
and loss of profitability in every industry affected by piracy, in about a
roughly concurrent timeline to how popular and easy said piracy is, is not a
giant coincidence.
-
Blade
Blade
"Bobby Clark" <bclark@REMOVE4_airmail.net> wrote in message
news:e5CdnT6YNJwG-WLU...@posted.internetamerica...
> "Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:gtnksh$tfg$1...@news.albasani.net...
>> "Astrobiochemist" <CCSB...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:b680bf92-34f4-409a...@q14g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
>>>> > So, basically, the rule seems to be that DVD sales are much lower
>>>> > than
>>>> > expected when the anime is bad. And really, wouldn't that always be
>>>> > the case?
>>>>
>>>> Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha no.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not saying that bad anime can't sell well (although, looking back,
>>> that does seem to be how I phrased it. Whoops). I'm just saying that
>>> when an anticipated anime does not sell well, it's the quality of the
>>> anime that is most likely the cause, rather than due to anything else.
>>
>> I'd say there's a whole slew of possible causes why an anime doesn't sell
>> well, and "quality" is only one of them, and far from the most important.
>
> Quality has a lot to do with it. I buy a lot of series; however I have
> been
Define "quality".
> burned a few times. The art work on the box is not necessarily
> representative of the show inside the box. ADV has recycled a few duds
> that way, so now I will not in most cases just buy it with out researching
> it before hand. For me quality is very important. Many of the US
> companies purchased sorry titles and then wondered why no one was buying.
Define "sorry".
I will make it more obvious what I am getting at: there is no such thing,
except in your completely subjective and unsupportable opinion. I will
absolutely guarantee that you like things I think are absolute trash and
vice versa. There is no such thing as "good" in entertainment, only
"popular". And I will also absolutely guarantee there's at least one very
popular anime you don't like, thus making your argument self-evidently
false.
>> Several anime that are fan favourites ended up being money pits for the
>> companies who licensed them. And many anime that were popular with
>> fansubbers never quite translated that popularity into sales.
>
> I would agree. Many programs would not have a broad North American
> audience. Ichigo 100% had a fantastic draw for the fan scans of the
> manga. So much so that multiple Border stores were carrying the Japanese
> versions in the bricks and mortar stores in the US. 4 years later we get
> a release in English. While I am buying it, I know most of the interest
> is past now based on the number of issues that never move at the local
> book stores. If it had been released 4 years ago, it would have captured
> the market and sold out like crazy. Some of the releases here are so slow
> it is not even funny. Even VIZ is taking its time with We Were There.
I will point out that if its potential audience hadn't had access to free
copies of it, it would have "captured the market and sold like crazy" when
it was released, presuming you are correct about its overall popularity. And
if people on this newsgroup and elsewhere were actually correct in their
assertions that most people who watch fansubs and read scanlations go on to
buy the official release, it would also have "captured the market and sold
like crazy". But, of course, it didn't. That is because an extremely
significant chunk of people who pirate don't go on to buy, and because
piracy is overall bad for businesses affected by it.
I will also point out that it's a lot easier for groups of amateurs to throw
together a quick and dirty translation of something and put it on the
internet quickly than it is for a professional company of very limited
resources (which is every US anime company) to negotiate for, license,
professionally translate, dub (if applicable), press/print, and distribute
that exact same something quickly. This is especially true because the anime
market has been flooded with product for several years and putting out
everything as quickly as possible doesn't make economic sense.
>> More to the point, the entire anime industry has been in steep decline
>> for several years now, on both sides of the Pacific. Partly this is due
>> to bad business practice. And partly this is due to the fact people can
>> easily get whatever they want to watch for free.
>
> I don't agree, the Japanese decline is widely attributed to the Population
> decline in Japan. I don't think that is the problem in the US. Several
> of
LOLWUT
Population decline? What on earth are you talking about? The anime industry
contracted by 10% in a single year in Japan. I think if 10% of Japan's
population had died in a single year, I'd probably have heard of it.
> the companies, namely Geneon had attempted to milk the US market. They
> changed the pricing structure from a street price of about $20.00 a DVD to
> a street price of about $30.00 a DVD back around 2003 to 2004. I for one
> refused to pay it. We only complete shows we were already watching. We
> never started some shows because of it. There are a number of Geneon
> releases we just did not ever get the first disk of due to the price.
As I noted, the troubles of the American companies are partially due to bad
business practice. Just not entirely.
-
Blade
Blade
"Bobby Clark" <bclark@REMOVE4_airmail.net> wrote in message
news:ZIednTdrqMl5-2LU...@posted.internetamerica...
> "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in message
> news:cqydnRAXOd1f_GLU...@posted.internetamerica...
>> See, that's a bit different than the point I think Giovanni was
>> responding to. And, in this case, you may have a point. Though, I think
>> the "why buy the cow" argument is a bit less significant than you do.
>> There are quite a few other factors, including the popping of the anime
>> bubble, the over-flooded marketplace
>
> It truly is over flooded with titles. About half of what is available
> holds no interest for me. Another quarter is only somewhat interesting.
I'm honestly curious. In what medium of entertainment is over half of all
the available output something you consider interesting?
If I found the 1/4 of available anime you apparently do to be interesting,
I'd like it a lot more than I do.
-
Blade
Derek Janssen
>
>> burned a few times. The art work on the box is not necessarily
>> representative of the show inside the box. ADV has recycled a few
>> duds that way, so now I will not in most cases just buy it with out
>> researching it before hand. For me quality is very important. Many
>> of the US companies purchased sorry titles and then wondered why no
>> one was buying.
>
>
> Define "sorry".
Sorry - (adj): Titles currently airing on JP television within the past
year, which cause US licensing companies regret several months after
indulging the "hot" license opportunity, after their marketing addressed
more realistic expectations that US sales would be poor to marginal, and
not plausibly reflecting the "smash ratings hit" the series was reported
to be on Japanese television.
See related listings under "Shuffle", "Negima!?" and "Strawberry
Marshmallow"
[Syn: "AX" "Otakucon Announcments"]
Derek Janssen
eja...@verizon.net
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
>
>
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote in message
> news:gtnoii$2ab$1...@news.motzarella.org...
>> Blade wrote:
>>>
>>
>>> Yes. I was referring specifically to Sea Wasp's prior claim that
>>> Itunes "proves" that online distribution is the WAVE OF THE FUTUR
>>
>> Wrong.
>>
>> It proves that Dorkstar's model of "no one would EVER pay for anything
>> they could steal for free" is 100% wrong.
>
> I don't pay attention to him or people who are arguing with him. I am
> referring to the "proof" you said Itunes provided a few weeks back.
Which was, specifically, in the context of Dorkstar's rants.
In other words, it's proof that it's a viable business model. If it
doesn't get **ANY** bigger than it is, it's a billion dollar industry.
Will it be the SAME companies? Who cares? If people want anime, an
industry will exist. It will be the same players, or a different one or
ones, but the need will be filled, by someone who figures out how to get
paid for it.
>
>> Whether it's truly the Wave of the Future remains to be seen. I
>> suspect the real wave of the future is ad-supported free sites and
>> similar things. That's basically Hulu's model.
>
> Possibly. That's been a very, very mixed bag in terms of profitability.
Yep. But so is any other model.
Blade
"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote in message
news:gtnvla$o81$1...@news.motzarella.org...
> Blade wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote in message
>> news:gtnoii$2ab$1...@news.motzarella.org...
>>> Blade wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Yes. I was referring specifically to Sea Wasp's prior claim that Itunes
>>>> "proves" that online distribution is the WAVE OF THE FUTUR
>>>
>>> Wrong.
>>>
>>> It proves that Dorkstar's model of "no one would EVER pay for anything
>>> they could steal for free" is 100% wrong.
>>
>> I don't pay attention to him or people who are arguing with him. I am
>> referring to the "proof" you said Itunes provided a few weeks back.
>
> Which was, specifically, in the context of Dorkstar's rants.
To my recollection, it was in response to me, but oh well, no biggie.
> In other words, it's proof that it's a viable business model. If it
> doesn't get **ANY** bigger than it is, it's a billion dollar industry.
Collecting bottles on the side of the road is a viable business model for
some people. I think it is a business model that will lead to the industry
continuing to contract, providing less variety and far more uneven quality.
I say the experiences of the music industry are proving this.
-
Blade
The Wanderer
> On Mon, 04 May 2009 07:31:10 -0400, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
> <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> Warewolf wrote:
>> Note that publishers and media people would laugh themselves sick
>> at the thought of paying attention to what Usenetters think.
>
> In other news, the winner of the TIME magazine World's Most
> Influential Person poll is M00t:
> http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/4chan-pwns-time-moot-named-worlds-most-influential-person
I'm told that it goes beyond that, if you look at the acrostic formed by
the (first?) initials of the top twenty or so...
...indeed, the very article you linked to mentions as much.
For a more explicit and in-depth article, try
http://musicmachinery.com/2009/04/27/moot-wins-time-inc-loses/
(but note that the comma in the phrase should probably be a semicolon or
a period-and-sentence-break instead; it's two not-really-related
clauses).
--
The Wanderer
Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.
Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.
sanjian
> "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in message
> news:cqydnRAXOd1f_GLU...@posted.internetamerica...
>> Blade wrote:
>>> "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in message
>>> news:4fqdneiWc67jg2LU...@posted.internetamerica...
>>>> Blade wrote:
>>> I deny it plays a primary role, because this is pretty much a
>>> continuation of an economic trend that started before the economy
>>> collapsed, and one that is mirrored in other countries, other
>>> industries, and other industries in other countries.
>>
>> See, that's a bit different than the point I think Giovanni was
>> responding to. And, in this case, you may have a point. Though, I
>> think the "why buy the cow" argument is a bit less significant than
>> you do. There are quite a few other factors, including the popping
>> of the anime bubble, the over-flooded marketplace (I used to try to
>> buy everything... I simply can't do so anymore), the increased
>> availability of anime rentals and anime on the tube, and those of us
>> who are simply demanding better value for our money than we used to.
>> Even if there were no fansubs, I simply would not pay what I used to
>> for anime. I was young, stupid, and easy to rip off, back then.
>
> You DON'T pay what you used to for anime. I know. I bought Blue Seed
> on VHS and every year ADV makes me feel, yet again, what an idiot I
> was for buying 13 tapes at $30+ each.
If I don't pay as much for anime as I used to, then that cuts into their
profit margins. The market has matured and, even without fansubs,
producer's surplus had to drop. The new wore off. And that was a big
factor in the changes to the anime industry.
> And yes, of course there are other factors. But piracy is a big
> factor. A big, consistently negative factor in every area that it
> effects, from anime to music to PC software to PSP games. More than
> anything else in the debate, it is the refusal of certain people to
> admit that piracy is overall bad for business that infuriates me.
Even that, I have my doubts about. At one time, I used to pay $12 to buy an
album for one song. Now days, I can buy that song for $1 or so, depending
on the song (not sure what the prices are, since I have neither bought, nor
downloaded music in a while). So, even if we assume there are three songs
on the album that I'm willing to buy - which is a stretch for many albums,
that's $3 vs. $12 per album. Yeah... that's going to cut into the profit
margins.
But, you know, if THAT is the change, then I welcome it.
In the old days, I understand that studios had to produce albums of mixed
quality, in order to actually get music out into the public. There were a
lot of one-song albums, and very few albums like Hotel California (which I
would gladly shell out far more than $12 for, and was the second CD I ever
bought). Back then, it wasn't a ripoff, because there was no real
alternative. But, for the recording industry to try to do things the same
way, now? THAT would be a ripoff.
So profits for the record companies and recording artists are going to fall,
because they can no longer bundle 75% crap with 25% good and tell us to take
it or leave it. TO THE EXTENT that the drop in sales is due to that, then I
consider it a good thing. They're getting the same treatment Detroit did in
the 1980s. Times are changing and they can't rely on the high
producer-surplus business models of the past. The result is a larger
consumer surplus.
>>> It makes a really good excuse, though. Just like all the others! I
>>> wonder what the excuse will be in a year or two when the economy
>>> recovers!
>>
>> Oh ye of excessive faith.
>
> Hee hee. I wondered if you'd say something like that. :)
>
>> Anyways, there are far more factors than just fansubs at play. Not
>> all of them are "excuses."
>
> No, there are indeed other factors at play. But the consistant drop
> in sales and loss of profitability in every industry affected by
> piracy, in about a roughly concurrent timeline to how popular and
> easy said piracy is, is not a giant coincidence.
There are a lot of things that fit the time scale.
Blade
"sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in message
news:hdKdnWWxsrlFG2LU...@posted.internetamerica...
Loss of profit per unit can be made up by volume (and DVDs are cheaper than
VHS tapes, as well). For awhile anime companies benefitted from that, and
they also tried to branch out with ancilliary merchandise (as advocated by
several people here). But now the volume isn't expanding enough to cover the
greater expense, and the ancilliary merchandise turned out to be a flop for
most series'.
I do not accept your conclusion that the only worthwhile songs on albums are
the radio singles. In fact, on well over half the albums I own my favourite
songs are not "that one popular song". Ironically, this is usually also the
case with many of the people contributing to the problem.
But I do agree the times are changing and that a likely result is that much
of what we will get in the future is nothing but radio singles. I simply
think this is a horribly bad thing.
>>> Anyways, there are far more factors than just fansubs at play. Not
>>> all of them are "excuses."
>>
>> No, there are indeed other factors at play. But the consistant drop
>> in sales and loss of profitability in every industry affected by
>> piracy, in about a roughly concurrent timeline to how popular and
>> easy said piracy is, is not a giant coincidence.
>
> There are a lot of things that fit the time scale.
Care to name some?
-
Blade
darkst...@gmail.com
> Sure it is, Wasp. Everyone knows in real life that most people who watch
> fansubs go on to buy the anime. That's why licensing everything popular with
> fansubbers turned out to be such a winning business strategy for the US
> Anime companies.
>
> (Or is it that everyone who watches fansubs buys merchandise? I forget.
> Well, as we all know, that ALSO turned out to be a winning strategy, so it's
> all good!)
Let us all note the dripping sarcasm here.
> >> Actually, I think you're forgetting a few things here...
>
> > Only one, really. That such polls are utterly non-representative,
> > self-selecting, and -- on such forums -- nearly worthless for drawing any
> > conclusions.
>
> > You might as well think anything you see on Usenet means something.
>
> > Note that publishers and media people would laugh themselves sick at the
> > thought of paying attention to what Usenetters think.
Then, bluntly, they would want nothing to do with USENET, or any
similar forum they have discontent for.
> By the by, Sea Wasp, overall sales of music are down 8% over the last year.
> That's including the increase of sales on Itunes and similar circumstances.
Which, of course, is on top of many years of significant decreases
which the RIAA was trying to stop.
Essentially, the entire concept of buying music at all is as "buggy
whip" as the record store chains which have now, basically, all gone
out of business.
Mike
darkst...@gmail.com
> "Blade" <kumonr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> Note that publishers and media people would laugh themselves sick at
> >> the thought of paying attention to what Usenetters think.
>
> > year. That's including the increase of sales on Itunes and similar
> > circumstances.
>
The economy is only killing that which was already dead.
Mike (This applies to the car companies as it does the music companies
as it does the anime companies.)
sanjian
That's good. Because, nowhere did I ever come even close to stating such a
conclusion. In fact, I would be very odd if I had, since I am not of that
opinion.
> own my favourite songs are not "that one popular song". Ironically,
> this is usually also the case with many of the people contributing to
> the problem.
> But I do agree the times are changing and that a likely result is
> that much of what we will get in the future is nothing but radio
> singles. I simply think this is a horribly bad thing.
Or, more likely, more independant bands (not to be confused with the trendy
"indie rock" crap).
>>>> Anyways, there are far more factors than just fansubs at play. Not
>>>> all of them are "excuses."
>>>
>>> No, there are indeed other factors at play. But the consistant drop
>>> in sales and loss of profitability in every industry affected by
>>> piracy, in about a roughly concurrent timeline to how popular and
>>> easy said piracy is, is not a giant coincidence.
>>
>> There are a lot of things that fit the time scale.
>
> Care to name some?
Scroll up. I wrote a few paragraphs about one such thing in the post you
replied to.
Captain Nerd
"Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> "Bobby Clark" <bclark@REMOVE4_airmail.net> wrote in message
> news:e5CdnT6YNJwG-WLU...@posted.internetamerica...
> >> More to the point, the entire anime industry has been in steep decline
> >> for several years now, on both sides of the Pacific. Partly this is due
> >> to bad business practice. And partly this is due to the fact people can
> >> easily get whatever they want to watch for free.
> >
> > I don't agree, the Japanese decline is widely attributed to the Population
> > decline in Japan. I don't think that is the problem in the US. Several
> > of
>
> LOLWUT
>
> Population decline? What on earth are you talking about? The anime industry
> contracted by 10% in a single year in Japan. I think if 10% of Japan's
> population had died in a single year, I'd probably have heard of it.
Anime market != entire population of Japan.
The population of Japan in total has been dropping year on year since
2006. Fewer children are being born, therefore fewer kids are around
to buy anime, and there are fewer young adults who don't outgrow their
anime habit.
<http://www.nira.or.jp/past/newse/events/01-1.html>
<http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20080126f1.html>
<http://fpcj.jp/old/e/mres/japanbrief/jb_598.html>
Cap.
--
Since 1989, recycling old jokes, cliches, and bad puns, one Usenet
post at a time!
Operation: Nerdwatch http://www.nerdwatch.com
Only email with "TO_CAP" somewhere in the subject has a chance of being read
Arnold Kim
>> Let's see:
>>
>> - Though technically you pay for cable and internet service, that
>> might still be included as "$0 spent"; so Cartoon Network, Adult
>> Swim, Sci-Fi, Hulu, Joost, and Cruchyroll are among the others
>> covered there . . .
>>
>> - People might still be going through anime they bought long ago and
>> are yet to get into; I know I have more than a few DVDs yet to be
>> viewed, or viewed fully . . .
>>
>> Sometimes explanations are simple, and certainly not sinister,
>> especially as more and more people are forced to stretch every dollar
>> . . .
I think that's an optimistic way of looking at things. And while I wouldn't
call it sinister- I've streamed anime myself, and I cut corners in legal
ways too (borrowing manga from the library, borrowing DVDs from friends,
Netflix, etc.)- I still do try to put a healthy amount back into the
industry when I can.
> Right. There was a thread back in January about how much people spent
> on Anime in December 2008 and when replying, I realized that I had
> only bought one anime in ALL of 2008 and that was a gift. I had
> received several boxsets in 2008 but those were gifts from friends.
> So, if asked how much I spent on anime for myself in the past year, it
> would be $0.
Man, where can I get friends like yours?:)
Arnold Kim
Arnold Kim
> Warewolf wrote:
>> "Arnold Kim" <arno...@optonline.net> wrote in news:49fe066f$0$5937
>> $607e...@cv.net:
>>
>>> From the MyAnimeList.Net forums:
>
> Which is a pretty self-selected group which will contain a large
> proportion -- vastly larger than the population at large -- of the
> type of stupid young kid who'll post stuff like this.
Just wondering how you figure that the repsresentation skews -that- much
from anime fandom at large. I'm not claiming it to be representative
myself, and I do agree that over 50% is probably an abberation, but it
doesn't strike me as all that far out of bounds.
>> Actually, I think you're forgetting a few things here...
>
> Only one, really. That such polls are utterly non-representative,
> self-selecting, and -- on such forums -- nearly worthless for drawing
> any conclusions.
Didn't claim it as anything scientific, just an observation.
By the way, I also asked the same question at the Anime Nation forums, and
the percentage was indeed smaller (that also is self selecting, though, as
it's a forum run by an anime retailer...)
Arnold Kim
Blade
<darkst...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:df9684d0-27a0-4a45...@z8g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
> On May 4, 5:22 am, "Blade" <kumonr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Sure it is, Wasp. Everyone knows in real life that most people who watch
>> fansubs go on to buy the anime. That's why licensing everything popular
>> with
>> fansubbers turned out to be such a winning business strategy for the US
>> Anime companies.
>>
>> (Or is it that everyone who watches fansubs buys merchandise? I forget.
>> Well, as we all know, that ALSO turned out to be a winning strategy, so
>> it's
>> all good!)
>
> Let us all note the dripping sarcasm here.
Hush. Adults are talking.
-
Blade
Blade
"sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote in message
news:LcmdnXj0d9V9BGLU...@posted.internetamerica...
Really. So what is the "25% good", or the "one song on the album" to which
you are referring?
Because I'd really love to know the train of thought behind "welcoming this
change" if you're not routinely a fan of the radio singles.
>> own my favourite songs are not "that one popular song". Ironically,
>> this is usually also the case with many of the people contributing to
>> the problem.
>> But I do agree the times are changing and that a likely result is
>> that much of what we will get in the future is nothing but radio
>> singles. I simply think this is a horribly bad thing.
>
> Or, more likely, more independant bands (not to be confused with the
> trendy "indie rock" crap).
I actually agree that the new system will be overall a good thing for the
sort of bands who would never get signed to a major label (for various
reasons).
>>>>> Anyways, there are far more factors than just fansubs at play. Not
>>>>> all of them are "excuses."
>>>>
>>>> No, there are indeed other factors at play. But the consistant drop
>>>> in sales and loss of profitability in every industry affected by
>>>> piracy, in about a roughly concurrent timeline to how popular and
>>>> easy said piracy is, is not a giant coincidence.
>>>
>>> There are a lot of things that fit the time scale.
>>
>> Care to name some?
>
> Scroll up. I wrote a few paragraphs about one such thing in the post you
> replied to.
I'm afraid I must have missed it. I certainly don't know of any.
-
Blade
Blade
"Captain Nerd" <cpt...@nerdwatch.com> wrote in message
news:cptnerd-B7B9D6...@news.giganews.com...
> In article <gtnv3n$j7c$1...@news.albasani.net>,
> "Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> "Bobby Clark" <bclark@REMOVE4_airmail.net> wrote in message
>> news:e5CdnT6YNJwG-WLU...@posted.internetamerica...
>
>> >> More to the point, the entire anime industry has been in steep decline
>> >> for several years now, on both sides of the Pacific. Partly this is
>> >> due
>> >> to bad business practice. And partly this is due to the fact people
>> >> can
>> >> easily get whatever they want to watch for free.
>> >
>> > I don't agree, the Japanese decline is widely attributed to the
>> > Population
>> > decline in Japan. I don't think that is the problem in the US.
>> > Several
>> > of
>>
>> LOLWUT
>>
>> Population decline? What on earth are you talking about? The anime
>> industry
>> contracted by 10% in a single year in Japan. I think if 10% of Japan's
>> population had died in a single year, I'd probably have heard of it.
>
> Anime market != entire population of Japan.
Yes, that's nice. And yet that was the explanation given by Bobby for why
the anime industry lost 10% of its revenue in one year: the decline of
Japanese population.
> The population of Japan in total has been dropping year on year since
> 2006. Fewer children are being born, therefore fewer kids are around
> to buy anime, and there are fewer young adults who don't outgrow their
> anime habit.
>
> <http://www.nira.or.jp/past/newse/events/01-1.html>
>
> <http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20080126f1.html>
>
> <http://fpcj.jp/old/e/mres/japanbrief/jb_598.html>
Yep. So you're saying the population of Japan in the demographics that watch
anime dropped by 10% between 2006 and 2007?
Because I'm going to have to say that I don't believe that. At all.
-
Blade
darkst...@gmail.com
> I've got a few friends who will only buy RIAA music second-hand.
> Personally, I think music in America has gotten so bad that I only listen to
> Country, anymore. And even that's starting to get too pop-ish.
I think you're going to get your wish soon, because, without these
lawsuits, there isn't going to be an RIAA or a music industry as it
has been constructed for the last 40 years.
Mike
Arnold Kim
> "Astrobiochemist" <CCSB...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:b680bf92-34f4-409a...@q14g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
>>>> So, basically, the rule seems to be that DVD sales are much lower
>>>> than expected when the anime is bad. And really, wouldn't that
>>>> always be the case?
>>>
>>> Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha no.
>>
>>
>> I'm not saying that bad anime can't sell well (although, looking
>> back, that does seem to be how I phrased it. Whoops). I'm just
>> saying that when an anticipated anime does not sell well, it's the
>> quality of the anime that is most likely the cause, rather than due
>> to anything else.
>
> I'd say there's a whole slew of possible causes why an anime doesn't
> sell well, and "quality" is only one of them, and far from the most
> pits for the companies who licensed them. And many anime that were
> popular with fansubbers never quite translated that popularity into
> sales.
> decline for several years now, on both sides of the Pacific. Partly
> this is due to bad business practice. And partly this is due to the
> fact people can easily get whatever they want to watch for free.
And then there's the case of a show like Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood-
streamed legally and for free on Funimation.com, and yet there are still
people who choose to stream or download it illegally...
Arnold Kim
Captain Nerd
"Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
And you've shown nothing to dispute that other than sarcasm.
> > The population of Japan in total has been dropping year on year since
> > 2006. Fewer children are being born, therefore fewer kids are around
> > to buy anime, and there are fewer young adults who don't outgrow their
> > anime habit.
> >
> > <http://www.nira.or.jp/past/newse/events/01-1.html>
> >
> > <http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20080126f1.html>
> >
> > <http://fpcj.jp/old/e/mres/japanbrief/jb_598.html>
>
> Yep. So you're saying the population of Japan in the demographics that watch
> anime dropped by 10% between 2006 and 2007?
Could very well be. Do you have any numbers to dispute that claim?
>
> Because I'm going to have to say that I don't believe that. At all.
That's nice. I see no numbers, only your personal belief that
you are right.
Arnold Kim
> Instead, the US companies are pretty much 100% depending on the DVD
> releases to earn back the original investment monies and turn a
> profit.
> Of course, as you point out, how can you go dropping money on a series
> you've never heard of - which is often the justification used by the
> companies for the single disc releases. Then again, with things like
> Netflix, for the price of 1 anime DVD (!) you can try out several
> different series in a single month.
My anime lifeline these days. I probably go through 1-2 hours, of anime
every day and 3 hours + on weekends, over half of that through Netflix, and
for only $26 per month.
Watching anime for less than 50 cents per episode is not too bad. :)
> Again, there's tons of anime that meets your criteria. That you
> haven't been exposed to it is a separate problem.
>
> But look at the examples you list - 3 shows from what, the past 15-20
> years? (how old is Daria or Batman:TAS anyways?) In the US, animation
> is mainly targetted at kids 6-12. Even attempts at more "adult"
> oriented shows results in things like South Park and Drawn Together.
> It's pretty much the same way as "adult" video games seem to only
> convey more and more outrageous violence.
>
> Even though there are such unusual and interesting shows, that doesn't
> mean they're going to show a profit.
>
> You'd probably enjoy Paranoia Agent which practically defies
> explanation due to its layered meanings and outright bizzare visuals.
> It even showed up on Adult Swim awhile back. I don't think it was a
> big hit - too many folks just wanted more Inuyasha. I'm partially
> relieved that Eva didn't
> do so well, otherwise we'd be suffering through endless reruns of
> that...
> I suspsect, though, the Eva fans are too busy fawning over DVD
> version 2.3 update 3, build 45 of the story to take notice of Adult
> Swim and the time it showed the "old" version.
My own personal recommendation for a more "adult" type series is Welcome to
the NHK. Basically it's an entire series about flawed and broken people
trying to heal each other- with the Otaku culture as a rather dark metaphor
for not being able to deal with real life.
There is no other anime I've ever seen that's quite like that.
Arnold Kim
sanjian
Actually, I wasn't aware it was available on Funimation. I'll have to go
there, from now on. Domo domo.
Astrobiochemist
> "Astrobiochemist" <CCSBey...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:b680bf92-34f4-409a...@q14g2000vbn.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> > So, basically, the rule seems to be that DVD sales are much lower than
> >> > expected when the anime is bad. And really, wouldn't that always be
> >> > the case?
>
> >> Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha no.
>
> > I'm not saying that bad anime can't sell well (although, looking back,
> > that does seem to be how I phrased it. Whoops). I'm just saying that
> > when an anticipated anime does not sell well, it's the quality of the
> > anime that is most likely the cause, rather than due to anything else.
>
> I'd say there's a whole slew of possible causes why an anime doesn't sell
> well, and "quality" is only one of them, and far from the most important.
> Several anime that are fan favourites ended up being money pits for the
> companies who licensed them. And many anime that were popular with
> fansubbers never quite translated that popularity into sales.
Well, let's go through the list. The only anime series that come to
mind as having large numbers of downloads but low sales are 'Love
Hina" and "Negima!" (the first series). Both of these were decried
for being bad shows, which the wide anime community discovered through
fansubsc. However, fansubs of Azumanga Daioh and Melancholy of Haruhi
Suzumiya have been specifically been recognized by the production
companies as being instrumental in promoting those series.
Quality is important.
> More to the point, the entire anime industry has been in steep decline for
> several years now, on both sides of the Pacific. Partly this is due to bad
> business practice. And partly this is due to the fact people can easily get
> whatever they want to watch for free.
> >> > (I saw a stand-up comedian several years ago who was commenting on the
> >> > outcry by Hollywood that their previous years movie revenues had
> >> > dropped and that piracy was to blame. No, the comedian said, the
> >> > reason they didn't make money the previous year was because they
> >> > didn't make any good movies that year.)
>
> >> Of COURSE they didn't.
>
> >> They only made good movies/books/music/anime when you were young.
>
> >> Conveniently, that is equally true no matter what age you are!
>
> > No, I still think good things are made today. Code Geass was good.
> > The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya was good. The Dark Knight was
> > good. Hulk was good. Good things still come out. However, a lot of
> > crap comes out and occasionally, there are times when the only things
> > coming out aren't any good.
>
> Define "good". Objectively.
Good (adj.) - of high quality; excellent. However, it really doesn't
matter what the definition of good is and here's why: You said "[t]
hey only made good movies/books/music/anime when you were young" and I
replied that this was false because they still make good movies/books/
music/anime now.
So, if you want to say that the only good good movies/books/music/
anime are from when a person was young, I'm going to have to ask what
definition of "good" you are using.
darkst...@gmail.com
> And then there's the case of a show like Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood-
> streamed legally and for free on Funimation.com, and yet there are still
> people who choose to stream or download it illegally...
Of course.
Because the legal avenues have _already lost_ -- irreparably.
This is what I continue to harp on to these people, much to their
ignorance: In choosing the pirates and thieves, they also chose
_their media_. Hence, the legal streams will never gain any real
precedence unless they are the only game in town.
Mike
Brian Henderson
> Collecting bottles on the side of the road is a viable business model
> for some people. I think it is a business model that will lead to the
> industry continuing to contract, providing less variety and far more
> uneven quality. I say the experiences of the music industry are proving
> this.
Then perhaps the entire music industry needs to collapse for something
more innovative and creative to take it's place. The music industry is
far too massive and unwieldy to survive, it's full of fat cats who came
to power when they had all the control and now that the situation has
changed, rather than change their model, they fight to regain control of
a basically uncontrollable situation. That's why they've fought every
single new technology that comes along, they can't keep control if
anything ever changes.
Let them die. Music will still be made and sold but it might be the
artists and not massive multi-national conglomerates that sell it.
Brian Henderson
> No, I still think good things are made today. Code Geass was good.
> The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya was good. The Dark Knight was
> good. Hulk was good. Good things still come out. However, a lot of
> crap comes out and occasionally, there are times when the only things
> coming out aren't any good.
Lots of good things come out which is why I buy so many DVDs, but I only
do so when the cost/benefit analysis works out and for me, that means a
single-disc DVD for less than $20. I might go higher for a special
edition or something I really want, but so long as it keeps below $20,
you can count on me buying it.
The same goes for anime. My wife and I were walking through Best Buy
over the weekend, looking at the anime section and what it would take
for us to buy most of the anime that's out. My response was sub-only,
zero edits, zero censorship, excellent translation. I don't want a dub,
I don't want to pay for voice actors, I want to see it EXACTLY as it was
presented on Japanese television, no alterations. Stick a sub track on
there and I'm a happy guy. Put that out and I'll buy a lot of anime.
Don't and you don't earn my dollars.
It's as simple as that.
Brian Henderson
> That is an Interesting point. I had stopped buying lots of new stuff before
> the RIAA became such a big problem. There are a few artists that I buy new,
> but those are very few and far between. I can see there being a backlash to
> the draconian tactics the RIAA is using today.
I'll admit that I haven't bought *ANY* U.S. music in a long time, but
then again, I haven't downloaded any either because I simply don't
listen to any music of any kind, ever. But I'll also admit that there
are some groups, like Metallica, that I will download just on general
principles even if I never listen to it, just because in spirit, I'm
spitting in their faces. Even if I gave a damn about Metallica these
days, they'd never see another red cent of my money ever again.
Brian Henderson
And it won't be a moment too soon either. On that day, I'll throw a party.
Giovanni Wassen
> From the MyAnimeList.Net forums:
>
> http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=83015&show=0
>
> Over half of them said they spend $0 on anime per month.
Let's see what I've actually spent on anime this year through may the
first.
The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya EUR 26,53
Mushi-shi EUR 30,96
Requiem from the Darkness (aka Hundred Stories) EUR 20,99
Heat Guy J: Complete Series EUR 14,49
Read or Die OVA EUR 3,99
Vandread: 1st & 2nd Stage EUR 35 (or something like that)
Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi (complete collection) EUR 20,70
Martian Successor Nadesico (Perfect Collection) EUR 20,70
Kekko Kamen EUR 5,49
Barefoot Gen (& 2) EUR 7,99
Tenchi Muyo OVA + Mihoshi Special EUR 7,99
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex - Solid State Society EUR 5,49
Ergo Proxy Complete Box Set EUR 31,45
Black Lagoon Season One Box Set EUR 22,46
Berserk (digitally remastered TV series collection) EUR 21,88
Escaflowne Complete Collection EUR 22,45
Blue Submarine No.6 Complete Collection EUR 8,81
Fullmetal Alchemist box 1 EUR 28,99
Fullmetal Alchemist box 2 EUR 28,99
Black Lagoon the Second Barrage EUR 20,70
Totaling: 386,05 / 4 = EUR 96,51 p/m
Not bad for a fansubwatching industry killing 'fan'.
--
Gio
http://www.watkijkikoptv.info
http://myanimelist.net/profile/extatix
http://watkijkikoptv.info/animeblog
Giovanni Wassen
> And then there's the case of a show like Fullmetal Alchemist:
> Brotherhood- streamed legally and for free on Funimation.com, and yet
> there are still people who choose to stream or download it
> illegally...
Also for non-US residents? Can't check right now.
Astrobiochemist
But simply because a DVD has a dub track doesn't kill it for you,
right? I mean, it'll drive the price up but once the series goes to
boxset, the price drops considerably.
And a bad translation or editing from the original version will kill a
show for a lot of people. There was a thread earlier where RAAMers
were all agreeing that while Code Geass was great and Bandai did try
to include as many extras as possible, cutting out every scene
involving pizza hut just pissed us off enough that we weren't planning
on buying the series.
Astrobiochemist
> > streamed legally and for free on Funimation.com, and yet there are still
> > people who choose to stream or download it illegally...
>
> Of course.
>
> Because the legal avenues have _already lost_ -- irreparably.
>
> This is what I continue to harp on to these people, much to their
> ignorance: In choosing the pirates and thieves, they also chose
> _their media_. Hence, the legal streams will never gain any real
> precedence unless they are the only game in town.
Hulu seems to be doing very well, despite the existence of many piracy
sites covering the same material. iTunes seems to be doing very well,
despite the existence of many piracy sites covering the same
material. Ergo, it is possible for legal avenues to beat out illegal
avenues.
Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers
> And yes, of course there are other factors. But piracy is a big factor.
That's what everybody claims. Yet nobody has yet presented me with any
hard data about how big its impact on actual sales really is.
> A big, consistently negative factor in every area that it effects,
> from anime to music to PC software to PSP games. More than anything
> else in the debate, it is the refusal of certain people to admit that
> piracy is overall bad for business that infuriates me.
*sigh*
Look, most of these responses actually were meant to disprove Chicken
Little's claim that every download equals to a lost sale. (EVERY
download? EVERY download!) Which is demonstrably wrong.
I don't think anyone said that piracy would necessarily benefit the
industry. At least I didn't. AFAICS fansubs do have both beneficial and
adverse effects to anime distribution. However, which of these effects
has the greater impact still remains to be shown.
[...]
>> Anyways, there are far more factors than just fansubs at play. Not
>> all of them are "excuses."
>
> No, there are indeed other factors at play. But the consistant drop in
> sales and loss of profitability in every industry affected by piracy,
> in about a roughly concurrent timeline to how popular and easy said
> piracy is, is not a giant coincidence.
You do realize that there's consensus in the scientific community about
correlation not being the same as cause, don't you?
cu
59cobalt
--
"My surname is Li and my personal name is Kao, and there is a slight
flaw in my character."
--Li Kao (Barry Hughart: Bridge of Birds)
Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers
>>>> So profits for the record companies and recording artists are going
>>>> to fall, because they can no longer bundle 75% crap with 25% good
>>>> and tell us to take it or leave it. TO THE EXTENT that the drop in
>>>> sales is due to that, then I consider it a good thing. They're
>>>> getting the same treatment Detroit did in the 1980s. Times are
>>>> changing and they can't rely on the high producer-surplus business
>>>> models of the past. The result is a larger consumer surplus.
>>>
>>> I do not accept your conclusion that the only worthwhile songs on
>>> albums are the radio singles.
>>
>> such a conclusion. In fact, I would be very odd if I had, since I am
>> not of that opinion.
>
> Really. So what is the "25% good", or the "one song on the album" to
> which you are referring?
You must not have listened to many albums if you really have to ask. I
own about a hundred CDs (rough estimate), and I don't give a damn about
AT LEAST 75% of their content. Even my favorite artists rarely manage to
get me interested in more than 50% of the tracks on their albums. With
most of the other artists it's rather 10% good than 25%. And yes, that
does include songs which did not become singles. Quite a few of them.
Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers
> If you found out that one of these shows you're watching online via
> fansub or even raw via someone's DVR in Japan, had been licensed for
> the US...would you buy it?
Ummm... let's see ...
I bought the Kanon DVDs, although I already had the fansubs. I even
troubled someone else so I could get those volumes that became
unavailable through online channels when ADV lost the license.
I bought the first three seasons of MariMite, although I already had the
fansubs. And plan on buying the 4th as soon as RightStuf makes it
available, although I already have the fansub.
I bought the Limited Edition of Lucky Star, although I already had the
fansubs.
I bought Strawberry Panic, although I already had the fansubs.
I bought the Special Edition of Haruhi, although I already had the
fansubs.
I bought the first volume of Dï¿œjin Work, have pre-ordered the second,
and will buy the third as well, although I already have the fansubs.
I totally will buy Aishiteruze Baby, Bamboo Blade, Candy Boy, Itazura na
Kiss, Kannagi, Lovely Complex, Minami-ke, Moyashimon, Nodame Cantabile,
Real Drive, Shion no Ou, Sketchbook ~full color'S~, Skip Beat!, or
Wagaya no Oinari-sama should they ever be released in either Germany or
the US, although I already have the fansubs.
So I'd say: yes, I absolutely would.
Galen
wrote:
>"Arnold Kim" <arno...@optonline.net> wrote:
>
>> And then there's the case of a show like Fullmetal Alchemist:
>> Brotherhood- streamed legally and for free on Funimation.com, and yet
>> there are still people who choose to stream or download it
>> illegally...
>
>Also for non-US residents? Can't check right now.
"Not available in all regions."
Giovanni Wassen
sanjian
But successful recording artists might end up only having salaries in the
hundreds-of-thousands instead of multi-millions.
sanjian
Out of all the albums I have, I can only think of a handful that bat over
.500. On the country side, there are a few by Allison Krauss, Pam Tillis's
earlier ones, and Martina McBride's Evolution. On the rock side, you have
Hotel California, Desperado, and Boston's Third Stage. Other than that,
I've got an ass-ton of albums with one or two good songs.
c64...@hotmail.com
> If you found out that one of these shows you're watching online via fansub
> or even raw via someone's DVR in Japan, had been licensed for the
Actually, that depends on who the "you" in your question is, as there
are 3 types of "you"s that watch fansubs.
1) Those who watch fansubs, don't buy and would not have bought even
if they didn't watch the fansubs
2) Those who watch fansubs and then buy because they liked what they
watched.
3) Those who would have bought had they not watched the fansubs.
the type 1 "you" is not a problem. The companies would never have
gotten a dime from them either way. They are irrelevant
the type 2 "you" is not a problem as you are getting their money- in
fact they are a gain.
it's only the type 3 that's a problem, as they are your lost revenue.
The problem for those claiming that fansubs are the problem is that
noone knows what the break down between the three types listed above
are. If 2's are larger than 3's that a net gain. If 3s are larger than
2s that's a net loss. Those on the pro-fansub side will claim the
former those on the anti side will claim the latter, but the truth is
no one knows which is the case and can only make a guess based on
assumptions that may or may not have any merit.