Stitch Anime
Juan F. Lara
Disney.jp now has a website for it.
http://www.disney.co.jp/character/stitch/okinawa/index.html
The Okinawan girl is now named Yuuna. I can't read Japanese, so I don't know
what the website says.
- Juan F. Lara
Doug Jacobs
The movie originally took place in Hawaii. This looks like a new sequel,
with Stitch and the other aliens moving to Okinawa for...some reason.
--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.
Derek Janssen
>> That Stitch anime series is set to premiere in Japan in October.
>>Disney.jp now has a website for it.
>>
>> http://www.disney.co.jp/character/stitch/okinawa/index.html
>>
>>The Okinawan girl is now named Yuuna. I can't read Japanese, so I don't know
>>what the website says.
>
> The movie originally took place in Hawaii. This looks like a new sequel,
> with Stitch and the other aliens moving to Okinawa for...some reason.
From the clips we've seen,
Yuuna is not an Elvis-worshipping weird...er, free-thinker, but now
seems to reflect the more cultural (and more parent-approved?)
*Japanese* image of Cute Uncontrollably Overimaginative Girl, and the
better young-Japanese role model that Lilo could never live up to--
Which, in anime's case, would be somewhere between Sana from Kodocha,
Chiyo from Azumanga Daioh, and the little girl who chased Ten-chan on UY.
Derek Janssen (Powerpuff Girls wasn't the only kids' show lost in
translation)
eja...@verizon.net
Juan F. Lara
Doug Jacobs <dja...@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
>The movie originally took place in Hawaii. This looks like a new sequel,
>with Stitch and the other aliens moving to Okinawa for...some reason.
I think it's a new continuity. Just like how "Tenchi etc" and "Digimon"
would have whole new continuities each season.
- Juan F. Lara
Aje RavenStar
"Doug Jacobs" <dja...@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
news:5JydnSTE7M5zDlTV...@posted.rawbandwidth...
To put Stitch closer to the Tokyo Tower?
Derek Janssen
> would have whole new continuities each season?
Also, is it just me, or does Yuuna doing the hula look oddly like one of
Kamichu's characters trying to hula? 0_o?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfnZBdeR8N0
(Which brings up the point that taking the series out of Hawaii, and
keeping it inside the Empire, means that there's no longer any
kissup-correct obligation to portray Hawaiian life and culture
accurately, eg. no Nani job-searching or Ice-Cream-Guy mainlander--
And Yuuna's hula can be portrayed as Just Something Silly She Thinks
She's Doing, like Sana's rapping.)
Derek Janssen
eja...@verizon.net
Lee Ratner
> "Doug Jacobs" <djac...@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
You should know that in anime Tokyo or at least Japan is the
center of the earth and anything remotely interesting only happens in
Japan.
The Japanese are not the most cosmopolitan people in the world
and when they use non-Japanese things in their pop culture, they have
a tendency to alter it to make it more friendly to the Japanese
audiences. They are experts of pandering. Turning Lilo into a genki
Okinawa girl is one example of this. What they did to Thor in Mythical
Detective Loki is another. Most depictions of Thor in European and
American culture tend to stay true the Thor of Norse mythology. He is
shown to be a big burly man, often with lots of facial hair, and he
wields his hammer with pride. This would not do for the Japanese
audience though. So in Mythical Detective Loki, Thor's form on Earth
is a beardless, average size Japanese high school boy named Narugami
who wields a boken rather than a hammer. I really like Mythical
Detective Loki and I like Narugami but I was always slightly disturbed
of the changes made to Thor to make him culturally acceptable.
Narugami is a nice character but I really can't see him as an
incarnation of Thor.
Aje RavenStar
"Lee Ratner" <LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e5d8770a-8ab3-44bf...@x41g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 11, 6:55 pm, "Aje RavenStar" <whinebuc...@comcast.net> wrote:
> "Doug Jacobs" <djac...@shell.rawbw.com> wrote in message
>
> news:5JydnSTE7M5zDlTV...@posted.rawbandwidth...
>
> > In rec.arts.anime.misc Juan F. Lara <lj...@ces.clemson.edu> wrote:
> >> That Stitch anime series is set to premiere in Japan in October.
> >> Disney.jp now has a website for it.
>
> >> http://www.disney.co.jp/character/stitch/okinawa/index.html
>
> >> The Okinawan girl is now named Yuuna. I can't read Japanese, so I don't
> >> know
> >> what the website says.
>
> > The movie originally took place in Hawaii. This looks like a new sequel,
> > with Stitch and the other aliens moving to Okinawa for...some reason.
>
> To put Stitch closer to the Tokyo Tower?
You should know that in anime Tokyo or at least Japan is the
center of the earth and anything remotely interesting only happens in
Japan.
Sigh. Missed the point (all things in anime threaten the Tokyo Tower at
some point!).
And being (xxx)centric is common to all varieties of media in their
respective culture, Japan and/or anime is no particular extreme in that
regard. Plenty of examples of non-Nipponcentric anime stories. VanDread,
which doesn't take place on Earth at all; .hack//sign, doesn't take place in
mundane world; Planetes, which takes place in space; Battle of the
Stars/Crest of the Stars, Galaxy Railway 999, Saber Marionette J, Outlaw
Star, all outer space shows that don't get anywhere near Japan; Le Chevalier
D'Eon which takes place during the French monarchy; even Bo-Bobobo Bobo-bo
(and no, I don't care if I did that inaccurately), which hopefully takes
place nowhere except in someone's bad dream after eating foods strange to
them.
Aje RavenStar
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
Hey that's what's happening with the live-action Dragonball, isn't it?! ;)
Laters. =)
Stan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
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|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
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__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ LostRune+sig [at] UofR [dot] net
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\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___|__| |__|___| \ ___|
Doug Jacobs
> The Japanese are not the most cosmopolitan people in the world
> and when they use non-Japanese things in their pop culture, they have
> a tendency to alter it to make it more friendly to the Japanese
> audiences. They are experts of pandering. Turning Lilo into a genki
> Okinawa girl is one example of this. What they did to Thor in Mythical
> Detective Loki is another. Most depictions of Thor in European and
> American culture tend to stay true the Thor of Norse mythology. He is
> shown to be a big burly man, often with lots of facial hair, and he
> wields his hammer with pride. This would not do for the Japanese
> audience though. So in Mythical Detective Loki, Thor's form on Earth
> is a beardless, average size Japanese high school boy named Narugami
> who wields a boken rather than a hammer. I really like Mythical
> Detective Loki and I like Narugami but I was always slightly disturbed
> of the changes made to Thor to make him culturally acceptable.
> Narugami is a nice character but I really can't see him as an
> incarnation of Thor.
*twitch*
That's just wrong.
I now have a scene stuck in my head featuring throngs of Japanese high
school girls yelling "Suooru-kun sugoi!" during a kendo match...
Doug Jacobs
> Also, is it just me, or does Yuuna doing the hula look oddly like one of
> Kamichu's characters trying to hula? 0_o?
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfnZBdeR8N0
>
> (Which brings up the point that taking the series out of Hawaii, and
> keeping it inside the Empire, means that there's no longer any
> kissup-correct obligation to portray Hawaiian life and culture
> accurately, eg. no Nani job-searching or Ice-Cream-Guy mainlander--
> And Yuuna's hula can be portrayed as Just Something Silly She Thinks
> She's Doing, like Sana's rapping.)
I didn't think that was the hula - but some form of Okinawan dance.
Basically, same kissup strategy, just different island and culture.
In this sense, Okinawa is Japan's "Hawaii".
It's like Japan...but it's not. It has its own culture which the Japanese
think of as exotic and charming. Now replace Japan/Japanese with
America/Americans and Okinawa with Hawaii in that previous sentence.
Works eerily well if you ask me...
Juan F. Lara
Doug Jacobs <dja...@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
>It's like Japan...but it's not. It has its own culture which the Japanese
>think of as exotic and charming.
I think the Okinawans have their own language. They also have shirts with
flowers on them. :-)
I'd be impressed if Yuuna and Stitch take a trip to the U.S. base in one
of these eps. Or fight a Chiropterran. :-)
- Juan F. Lara
Phillip Thorne
>>The movie originally took place in Hawaii. This looks like a new sequel,
>>with Stitch and the other aliens moving to Okinawa for...some reason.
From the substitionary school of scriptwriting, we have:
"Quick, Jumbaa! How do we get out of this [SITUATION]?"
"That will be easy, little girl. I'll just [TECH] the [TECH]."
"Oh no! Now we've been relocated to [PLACE] because of [REASON]. How
will I [EMOTIONAL INTERACTION] my [FAMILY MEMBER] now?"
But on 11sep08, Juan F. Lara disagreed:
> I think it's a new continuity. Just like how "Tenchi etc" and "Digimon"
>would have whole new continuities each season.
Think of it as localization. Translate the language, translate the
location, translate the cultural references. If the character and
story beats are completely different from the original, well, we're
not trying to placate the original writers. We're trying to make
money.
This raises interesting images of what localization would be like if
Disney had non-human, non-Terran customers. But probably still
visually-oriented, because expressing stories with sonic holograms or
scent-images would require a pretty dang strange shift in
institutional expertise.
--
** Phillip Thorne ** peth...@comcast.net **************
* RPI CompSci 1998 *
** underbase.livejournal.com ***************************
Lee Ratner
and not that popular among the ladies but Thor without a hammer is
somehow lacking.
Antonio E. Gonzalez
F. Lara) wrote:
>In article <cuOdnZEVjrD3UVfV...@posted.rawbandwidth>,
>Doug Jacobs <dja...@shell.rawbw.com> wrote:
>>It's like Japan...but it's not. It has its own culture which the Japanese
>>think of as exotic and charming.
>
> I think the Okinawans have their own language. They also have shirts with
>flowers on them. :-)
>
You're more on track than you think: Okinawa was the heart of the
Ryukyu Kingdom. In the 17th Century, they were invaded and conquered
by Imperial Japan. Their original language and heritage faded away as
they were forced to assimilate to Japanese culture and customs; they
were officially made a prefecture of Japan in the late 19th Century.
Save a few time changes, this also pretty much what the US did with
Hawaii.
Ryukyu's most famous contribution to the world is karate, often
mistaken as Japanese; the national martial art of Japan is actually
judo, not that mainland Japanese are beyond taking up karate anyway.
After WWII, US Marines stationed in Okinawa noticed karate, liked the
brute-force style, learned it, loved it; they proceded to help spread
it around the world, making it the planet's most popular martial art.
> I'd be impressed if Yuuna and Stitch take a trip to the U.S. base in one
>of these eps. Or fight a Chiropterran. :-)
>
Disneyfied vampires . . . now that's scary . . .
--
- ReFlex76
- "Let's beat the terrorists with our most powerful weapon . . . hot girl-on-girl action!"
- "The difference between young and old is the difference between looking forward to your next birthday, and dreading it!"
- Jesus Christ - The original hippie!
<http://reflex76.blogspot.com/>
<http://www.blogger.com/profile/07245047157197572936>
Katana > Chain Saw > Baseball Bat > Hammer
Antonio E. Gonzalez
Ummm, you've really never seen the long-lived Marvel Comics version
of Thor?
<http://www.heroicworld.com/images/archetypes/image067.jpg>
<http://www.heroicworld.com/images/archetypes/image020.gif>
<http://www.samruby.com/Heroes/Thor/ThorBright.gif>
David Johnston
<AntE...@aol.com> wrote:
>>is a beardless, average size Japanese high school boy named Narugami
>>who wields a boken rather than a hammer. I really like Mythical
>>Detective Loki and I like Narugami but I was always slightly disturbed
>>of the changes made to Thor to make him culturally acceptable.
>>Narugami is a nice character but I really can't see him as an
>>incarnation of Thor.
>
> Ummm, you've really never seen the long-lived Marvel Comics version
>of Thor?
>
Yeah but at least he had a hammer.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
And looks very Nordic. Yes, he's not the image that the NORSE had of
Thor (and in fact they've acknowledged that several times in the
comics), but at least he makes sense as an image of Thor.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Captain Nerd
Could be worse, look what they did to King Arthur in that one
anime...
Cap.
--
Since 1989, recycling old jokes, cliches, and bad puns, one Usenet
post at a time!
Operation: Nerdwatch http://www.nerdwatch.com
Only email with "TO_CAP" somewhere in the subject has a chance of being read
Jack Bohn
> And being (xxx)centric is common to all varieties of media in their
> respective culture, Japan and/or anime is no particular extreme in that
I remember a scene from Doctor Who when a giant robot was going
after a large cache of nuclear missiles, a brigadier general
explained that the UN had entrusted guarding them to the British,
and the Doctor drily said, "Of course, the rest were all
foreigners."
> regard. Plenty of examples of non-Nipponcentric anime stories. VanDread,
> which doesn't take place on Earth at all; .hack//sign, doesn't take place
>in
> mundane world; Planetes, which takes place in space; Battle of the
The parts of .hack//sign that do take place IRL (... well, an
anime version of Real Life) do take place in Japan, though.
Planetes is a good example, although focusing on a Japanese
family, it does have Americans and Russians and third-world
characters.
> Stars/Crest of the Stars, Galaxy Railway 999, Saber Marionette J, Outlaw
> Star, all outer space shows that don't get anywhere near Japan;
Well, Crest features an exiled Japanese mutant Empire. (I'm
forgetting, wasn't Outlaw Star on the edge of a Chinese
interstellar empire?)
--
-Jack
Mufassa
OH Good!!! Now they can do a Stitch vs Godzilla episode!!!!
Signed
Mufassa
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
> In article <gaj9t6$rad$1...@registered.motzarella.org>,
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <sea...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
> > David Johnston wrote:
> > > On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 01:27:06 -0700, Antonio E. Gonzalez
> > > <AntE...@aol.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >>> is a beardless, average size Japanese high school boy named Narugami
> > >>> who wields a boken rather than a hammer. I really like Mythical
> > >>> Detective Loki and I like Narugami but I was always slightly disturbed
> > >>> of the changes made to Thor to make him culturally acceptable.
> > >>> Narugami is a nice character but I really can't see him as an
> > >>> incarnation of Thor.
> > >> Ummm, you've really never seen the long-lived Marvel Comics version
> > >> of Thor?
> > >>
> > >
> > > Yeah but at least he had a hammer.
> >
> > And looks very Nordic. Yes, he's not the image that the NORSE had of
> > Thor (and in fact they've acknowledged that several times in the
> > comics), but at least he makes sense as an image of Thor.
>
> Could be worse, look what they did to King Arthur in that one
> anime...
>
Ya talkin' about Queen Arthuria or somethin'?
Laters. =)
STan
Lee Ratner
> On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 01:27:06 -0700, Antonio E. Gonzalez
>
> >>is a beardless, average size Japanese high school boy named Narugami
> >>who wields a boken rather than a hammer. I really like Mythical
> >>Detective Loki and I like Narugami but I was always slightly disturbed
> >>of the changes made to Thor to make him culturally acceptable.
> >>Narugami is a nice character but I really can't see him as an
> >>incarnation of Thor.
>
> > Ummm, you've really never seen the long-lived Marvel Comics version
> >of Thor?
>
> Yeah but at least he had a hammer.
He was also big and burly and like Sea Wasp said earlier, was
passible as a fictional Viking and made more sense as an incarnation
of Thor.
Depicting Thor is a beardless, average size Japanese high
school student was not necessarily a bad thing. I really doubt that
the Japanese audience, even a shounen one, would go for a bearded
major character. What I do find unacceptable was replacing Thor's
hammer with a boken. I really want to know why that decision was made.
Lee Ratner
> In article <gaj9t6$ra...@registered.motzarella.org>,
> "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > David Johnston wrote:
> > > On Sun, 14 Sep 2008 01:27:06 -0700, Antonio E. Gonzalez
> > > <AntEGM...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> > >>> is a beardless, average size Japanese high school boy named Narugami
> > >>> who wields a boken rather than a hammer. I really like Mythical
> > >>> Detective Loki and I like Narugami but I was always slightly disturbed
> > >>> of the changes made to Thor to make him culturally acceptable.
> > >>> Narugami is a nice character but I really can't see him as an
> > >>> incarnation of Thor.
> > >> Ummm, you've really never seen the long-lived Marvel Comics version
> > >> of Thor?
>
> > > Yeah but at least he had a hammer.
>
> > And looks very Nordic. Yes, he's not the image that the NORSE had of
> > Thor (and in fact they've acknowledged that several times in the
> > comics), but at least he makes sense as an image of Thor.
>
> Could be worse, look what they did to King Arthur in that one
> anime...
>
> Cap.
>
Not only was the change only made for fan-service purposes, it was
justified with the worse faux-feminism.
Invid Fan
<6d92828a-2511-4a0b...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
Lee Ratner <LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote:
Given I saw Fate/Stay Night and don't remember an Arthur connection, it
must really be bad :)
We could probably have an entire thread about Non-Japanese
sources/influences that have been butchered in anime. Their take on
Christianity is always a laugh, for example.
--
Chris Mack *quote under construction*
'Invid Fan'
Ansgar -59cobalt- Wiechers
> Lee Ratner <LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If you are talking about Fate/Stay Night, that is really bad.
>> Not only was the change only made for fan-service purposes, it was
>> justified with the worse faux-feminism.
>
> Given I saw Fate/Stay Night and don't remember an Arthur connection, it
> must really be bad :)
You never noticed Saber? o_O
> We could probably have an entire thread about Non-Japanese
> sources/influences that have been butchered in anime. Their take on
> Christianity is always a laugh, for example.
Their take on fencing, too. "Le Chevalier D'Eon", anyone?
X-Post removed, this belongs in raam.
cu
59cobalt
--
"My surname is Li and my personal name is Kao, and there is a slight
flaw in my character."
--Li Kao (Barry Hughart: Bridge of Birds)
Lee Ratner
> In article
> <6d92828a-2511-4a0b-94a2-6797c3f9f...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
See spoilers bellow.
> We could probably have an entire thread about Non-Japanese
> sources/influences that have been butchered in anime. Their take on
> Christianity is always a laugh, for example.
>
Like how they think that nuns in the Roman Catholic Church have a
function similar to Shinto mikos..
I find their take on anything American pretty laughable to. Most
of the anime set in America is set in the big cities like New York or
Chicago. Yet, they really do not understand how ethnically, racially,
and religiously diverse these cities are and all the Ameircans tend
towards WASP.
We could also have a threat on who panders to fan expectations
more, Japanese creators or Western creators. A strong argument that
Japanse creators are much more likely to cave in and pander to what
their fans want. An example can be made in shows that deal with men
stranded in the wilderness somewhere. Facial hair is only slightly
more popular amoung women outside of Japan than in it but most shows
and movies dealing with a male or many male characters stranded from
civilization will depct their head, facial, and body hair growing
increasingly long. In Japan this is rare.* When the lead male of
Please Save My Earth is the last one on the satelite, is head hair
grows long and luxurious over the years but he never grows any facial
hair or body hair. You can't argue that this is because of his species
because his guardian is depicted heavily bearded. It is only because
the creators pandered to the tastes of their fans. Fanservice is good
but not to the point of ridiculousness.
*One thing that is admirable about Yuu Watase is that she does
admit that men do grow body and facial hair and need to shave. In a
few of her manga, male characters who were living in isolation from
society for a few years have been depicted with facial hair that they
did shave off when they rejoined society. She could have pandered like
the other shoujo creators but she choose not to.
Fate/Stay Night Spoilers:
Saber the main character is really King Arthur. In the Fate/Stay
Night universe, King Arthur was a young woman who had to pretend to be
a man to lead her sexist subjects. This make the decision seem
feminist. The real reason was of couse because they needed a lead
woman for the lead man to get together with and for some reason they
decided not to use one of the myriad of heroines from Western
mythology. A really stupid choice IMO.
Lee Ratner
>
> >>is a beardless, average size Japanese high school boy named Narugami
> >>who wields a boken rather than a hammer. I really like Mythical
> >>Detective Loki and I like Narugami but I was always slightly disturbed
> >>of the changes made to Thor to make him culturally acceptable.
> >>Narugami is a nice character but I really can't see him as an
> >>incarnation of Thor.
>
> > Ummm, you've really never seen the long-lived Marvel Comics version
> >of Thor?
>
> Yeah but at least he had a hammer.
I also said the Thor is usually but not always portrayed with
facial hair with the Marvel interpretation in mind. Occassionally,
Marvel did depict Thor with proper facial hair.
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
> On Sep 15, 10:02 am, Invid Fan <in...@loclanet.com> wrote:
> > In article
> > <6d92828a-2511-4a0b-94a2-6797c3f9f...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > Lee Ratner <LBRat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Sep 14, 9:44 pm, Captain Nerd <cptn...@nerdwatch.com> wrote:
> > > > In article <gaj9t6$ra...@registered.motzarella.org>,
> > > > "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > > And looks very Nordic. Yes, he's not the image that the NORSE had of
> > > > > Thor (and in fact they've acknowledged that several times in the
> > > > > comics), but at least he makes sense as an image of Thor.
> >
> > > > Could be worse, look what they did to King Arthur in that one
> > > > anime...
> >
> > > If you are talking about Fate/Stay Night, that is really bad.
> > > Not only was the change only made for fan-service purposes, it was
> > > justified with the worse faux-feminism.
> >
> > Given I saw Fate/Stay Night and don't remember an Arthur connection, it
> > must really be bad :)
>
> See spoilers bellow.
>
>
> Fate/Stay Night Spoilers:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Saber the main character is really King Arthur. In the Fate/Stay
> Night universe, King Arthur was a young woman who had to pretend to be
> a man to lead her sexist subjects. This make the decision seem
> feminist. The real reason was of couse because they needed a lead
> woman for the lead man to get together with and for some reason they
> decided not to use one of the myriad of heroines from Western
> mythology. A really stupid choice IMO.
>
>
My first guess was Joan of Arc myself.
Laters. =)
Stan
Invid Fan
<LostRu...@UofR.SlamSpam.net> wrote:
> Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:05am-0700, Lee Ratner <LBRa...@gmail.com>:
>
> > On Sep 15, 10:02İam, Invid Fan <in...@loclanet.com> wrote:
> > > In article
> > > <6d92828a-2511-4a0b-94a2-6797c3f9f...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
> > >
> > > Lee Ratner <LBRat...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > On Sep 14, 9:44İpm, Captain Nerd <cptn...@nerdwatch.com> wrote:
> > > > > In article <gaj9t6$ra...@registered.motzarella.org>,
> > > > > İ"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > > > İ İAnd looks very Nordic. Yes, he's not the image that the NORSE
> > > > > > had of
> > > > > > Thor (and in fact they've acknowledged that several times in the
> > > > > > comics), but at least he makes sense as an image of Thor.
> > >
> > > > > İ İCould be worse, look what they did to King Arthur in that one
> > > > > İ İanime...
> > >
> > > > İ İ İ If you are talking about Fate/Stay Night, that is really bad.
> > > > Not only was the change only made for fan-service purposes, it was
> > > > justified with the worse faux-feminism.
> > >
> > > Given I saw Fate/Stay Night and don't remember an Arthur connection, it
> > > must really be bad :)
> >
> > See spoilers bellow.
> >
> >
> > Fate/Stay Night Spoilers:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Saber the main character is really King Arthur. In the Fate/Stay
> > Night universe, King Arthur was a young woman who had to pretend to be
> > a man to lead her sexist subjects. This make the decision seem
> > feminist. The real reason was of couse because they needed a lead
> > woman for the lead man to get together with and for some reason they
> > decided not to use one of the myriad of heroines from Western
> > mythology. A really stupid choice IMO.
> >
> >
>
> My first guess was Joan of Arc myself.
>
Like I said, it was non-Arthur enough for me not to make the
connection. Or I didn't get far enough in the show (always possible
^_^)
Rob Kelk
<LostRu...@UofR.SlamSpam.net> wrote:
> This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
> while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
>
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>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:05am-0700, Lee Ratner <LBRa...@gmail.com>:
>
>> On Sep 15, 10:02=A0am, Invid Fan <in...@loclanet.com> wrote:
>> > In article
>> > <6d92828a-2511-4a0b-94a2-6797c3f9f...@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>,
>> >
>> > Lee Ratner <LBRat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > On Sep 14, 9:44=A0pm, Captain Nerd <cptn...@nerdwatch.com> wrote:
>> > > > In article <gaj9t6$ra...@registered.motzarella.org>,
>> > > > =A0"Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)" <seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > > > > =A0 =A0And looks very Nordic. Yes, he's not the image that the NORSE had of
>> > > > > Thor (and in fact they've acknowledged that several times in the
>> > > > > comics), but at least he makes sense as an image of Thor.
>> >
>> > > > =A0 =A0Could be worse, look what they did to King Arthur in that one
>> > > > =A0 =A0anime...
>> >
>> > > =A0 =A0 =A0 If you are talking about Fate/Stay Night, that is really bad.
>> > > Not only was the change only made for fan-service purposes, it was
>> > > justified with the worse faux-feminism.
>> >
>> > Given I saw Fate/Stay Night and don't remember an Arthur connection, it
>> > must really be bad :)
>>=20
>> See spoilers bellow.
>>=20
>>=20
>> Fate/Stay Night Spoilers:
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
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>> Saber the main character is really King Arthur. In the Fate/Stay
>> Night universe, King Arthur was a young woman who had to pretend to be
>> a man to lead her sexist subjects. This make the decision seem
>> feminist. The real reason was of couse because they needed a lead
>> woman for the lead man to get together with and for some reason they
>> decided not to use one of the myriad of heroines from Western
>> mythology. A really stupid choice IMO.
>>=20
>>=20
>
>My first guess was Joan of Arc myself.
They couldn't get Jeanne d'Arc - she's too busy "stealing"
demonically-possessed artwork.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=362
<sigh>
(Followups set to rec.arts.anime.misc only; this has drifted off-topic
for the other two groups.)
--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> e-mail: s/deadspam/gmail/
"I'm *not* a kid! Nyyyeaaah!" - Skuld (in "Oh My Goddess!" OAV #3)
"When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear
of childishness and the desire to be very grown-up." - C.S. Lewis
David Johnston
They could have made that character Joan of Arc. The reason they
didn't was not for fan service but to throw in a twist.
David Johnston
For the same reason they chose to turn Fenris into a cute little
puppy. Even in Japan people would expect Thor to use a hammer. Humour
comes from defying people's expectations.
sanjian
Which makes him one of the few anime characters not to use a hammer.
David Johnston
No, the comedy hammer is the province of women.
Lee Ratner
I doubt that most Japanese viewers would know who Fenrir and
Thor or the rest of the Norse people are without explanation. At least
Fenrir assumed wolf form once in the anime, Thor never used a hammer.
Also since Thor's boken was never used in a comedic manner, I doubt
your comedic explanation works.
Lee Ratner
No, I disagree. The reason they made Sabre, King Arthur rather
than Joan of Arc was to stimulate certain male fantasies, mainly of
the ice queen variety. A common fantasy for men is to encounter a
beautiful woman who for one reason or another lost touch with her
womanly loving nature and be the person who rekindles that woman's
feminine, loving qualities. This would not really work for Joan of Arc
because Joan was always acknowledged as a woman. To have Saber pretend
to be a man and suppress everything feminine about her takes the
fantasy to the max.
sanjian
Tell that to Ataru Moroboshi.
sanjian
> On Sep 15, 5:36 pm, David Johnston <da...@block.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 03:34:37 -0700 (PDT), Lee Ratner
>> They could have made that character Joan of Arc. The reason they
>> didn't was not for fan service but to throw in a twist.
>
> No, I disagree. The reason they made Sabre, King Arthur rather
> than Joan of Arc was to stimulate certain male fantasies, mainly of
> the ice queen variety. A common fantasy for men is to encounter a
The ice queen need not LITTERALLY be a queen. (Saber as a drag queen?)
> beautiful woman who for one reason or another lost touch with her
> womanly loving nature and be the person who rekindles that woman's
> feminine, loving qualities. This would not really work for Joan of Arc
> because Joan was always acknowledged as a woman. To have Saber pretend
I'm not entirely sure that's exactly true, but I'll have to do some more
research to be sure. None the less, you can still have Joan toss away a
good deal of her feminimity for her task.
My guess is they wanted the sword.
Lee Ratner
> Lee Ratner wrote:
> > On Sep 15, 5:36 pm, David Johnston <da...@block.net> wrote:
> >> On Mon, 15 Sep 2008 03:34:37 -0700 (PDT), Lee Ratner
> >> They could have made that character Joan of Arc. The reason they
> >> didn't was not for fan service but to throw in a twist.
>
> > No, I disagree. The reason they made Sabre, King Arthur rather
> > than Joan of Arc was to stimulate certain male fantasies, mainly of
> > the ice queen variety. A common fantasy for men is to encounter a
>
> The ice queen need not LITTERALLY be a queen. (Saber as a drag queen?)
I know that but in this case, the ice queen was a literal queen.
> > beautiful woman who for one reason or another lost touch with her
> > womanly loving nature and be the person who rekindles that woman's
> > feminine, loving qualities. This would not really work for Joan of Arc
> > because Joan was always acknowledged as a woman. To have Saber pretend
>
> I'm not entirely sure that's exactly true, but I'll have to do some more
> research to be sure. None the less, you can still have Joan toss away a
> good deal of her feminimity for her task.
True but not to the extent of what they went with. Joan never
pretended to be a man or boy and always acknowleged and was
acknowleged as a female. Not a really feminine one but a female
nonetheless, so you do not get a complete rekindling of the feminity
that do with Saber as Arthur. I realize another problem with Joan. If
Saber was Joan of Arc some vigorous hand-waiving would need to be done
to get rid of Joan's intense religiosity and I think vow of chasity.
> My guess is they wanted the sword.
>
>
>
> > to be a man and suppress everything feminine about her takes the
> > fantasy to the max.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Doug Jacobs
> Its not bad, Thor's incarnation is presented as average looking
> and not that popular among the ladies but Thor without a hammer is
> somehow lacking.
That's still rather insulting to Thor...
Thor should be a large imposing figure of a man, who's very shadow should
make women swoon from its masculinity. Without his hammer, Thor might as
well be missing an arm or something.
--
It's not broken. It's...advanced.
Doug Jacobs
>
> Disneyfied vampires . . . now that's scary . . .
Do they sing? A great song about how we're all the same color on the
inside.
*slurp*
Doug Jacobs
> Well, Crest features an exiled Japanese mutant Empire. (I'm
> forgetting, wasn't Outlaw Star on the edge of a Chinese
> interstellar empire?)
Both Outlaw Star and Cowboy Bebop point to a future where China, or at
least Chinese culture, dominates humanity's cultural landscape.
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
Vow? That's just but another challenge for the male fantasy to conquer!
Laters. =)
STan
Bill Martin
> Aje RavenStar wrote:
>
>> And being (xxx)centric is common to all varieties of media in their
>> respective culture, Japan and/or anime is no particular extreme in that
>
> I remember a scene from Doctor Who when a giant robot was going
> after a large cache of nuclear missiles, a brigadier general
> explained that the UN had entrusted guarding them to the British,
> and the Doctor drily said, "Of course, the rest were all
> foreigners."
My memory fails as to which Doctor that was, but sounds like it
could've been any of the first 4, or the 6th...
Please help me out, which Doctor said it (even if it turns out to be
one I didn't mention)?
Derek Janssen
If it was to the Brigadier, and sounds snooty, it had to be Jon Pertwee.
Doc #3.
Next question? ^_^
Derek Janssen (c'mon, no easy ones, this time!)
eja...@verizon.net
sanjian
> On Sep 16, 6:37 am, "sanjian" <mun...@vt.edu> wrote:
>> I'm not entirely sure that's exactly true, but I'll have to do some
>> more research to be sure. None the less, you can still have Joan
>> toss away a good deal of her feminimity for her task.
>
> True but not to the extent of what they went with. Joan never
> pretended to be a man or boy and always acknowleged and was
> acknowleged as a female. Not a really feminine one but a female
> nonetheless, so you do not get a complete rekindling of the feminity
> that do with Saber as Arthur. I realize another problem with Joan. If
> Saber was Joan of Arc some vigorous hand-waiving would need to be done
> to get rid of Joan's intense religiosity and I think vow of chasity.
I'm sure you've been watching anime too long to think that any of that
really matters.
Got a name?
Check.
Got a vague character concept?
Check.
Ok, get some character designs worked up. I think Owl-girl nursemaids are
in fashion this season.
The Wanderer
You sure? The only giant robot I remember which would have been around
the Brigadier was from the first episode of Tom Baker, the Fourth
Doctor. Admittedly I don't remember its having anything to do with
nuclear missiles - it was a sufficiently devastating weapon all on its
own - but I also don't remember any other candidates.
--
The Wanderer
Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.
Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.
Derek Janssen
>
>>>> I remember a scene from Doctor Who when a giant robot was going
>>>> after a large cache of nuclear missiles, a brigadier general
>>>> explained that the UN had entrusted guarding them to the British,
>>>> and the Doctor drily said, "Of course, the rest were all
>>>> foreigners."
>
>> Pertwee. Doc #3.
>
> You sure? The only giant robot I remember which would have been around
> the Brigadier was from the first episode of Tom Baker, the Fourth
> Doctor. Admittedly I don't remember its having anything to do with
> nuclear missiles - it was a sufficiently devastating weapon all on its
> own - but I also don't remember any other candidates.
Actually, that does sound familiar--
Although, being the first Doc #4 episode, they were still in Pertwee
UNIT mode at the time.
Derek Janssen (who just found a new stash of non-DVD episodes on iTunes
Store!) @_@
eja...@verizon.net
Lee Ratner
> In rec.arts.anime.misc Lee Ratner <LBRat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Its not bad, Thor's incarnation is presented as average looking
> > and not that popular among the ladies but Thor without a hammer is
> > somehow lacking.
>
> That's still rather insulting to Thor...
Oh, I agree perfectly but Narugami-Thor could still have been a
lot worse, they could have made him extremely bishounen rather than
averagely bishounen.
> Thor should be a large imposing figure of a man, who's very shadow should
> make women swoon from its masculinity. Without his hammer, Thor might as
> well be missing an arm or something.
>
Yeah but I don't think the Japanese would really go for this
type, even for a non main character. Japanese women tend not to swoon
for the imposing macho man type that Thor is supposed to be. Taking
away Thor's hammer was too much though. I kind of wonder what the
Japanese would do to the other burly heroes of the West in Anime like
Heracles or Samson, who is supposed to be extremely hairy. Nothing
good probably.
Galen
Heracles is a character in _Kolokolo Polon_
(the main character is Apollo's daughter),
and is at least beefy. Zeus's face is totally covered
in hair with a nose sticking out. Poseidon also has
a beard.
Sampson was probably done in Superbook,
even if I don't remember the episode.
Jack Bohn
>Derek Janssen wrote:
>
>> Bill Martin wrote:
>>
>>> On 2008-09-14 21:35:13 -0500, Jack Bohn <jack...@bright.net> said:
>
>>>> I remember a scene from Doctor Who when a giant robot was going
>>>> after a large cache of nuclear missiles, a brigadier general
>>>> explained that the UN had entrusted guarding them to the British,
>>>> and the Doctor drily said, "Of course, the rest were all
>>>> foreigners."
>>>
>>> My memory fails as to which Doctor that was, but sounds like it
>>> could've been any of the first 4, or the 6th...
>>>
>>> Please help me out, which Doctor said it (even if it turns out to
>>> be one I didn't mention)?
>>
>> If it was to the Brigadier, and sounds snooty, it had to be Jon
>> Pertwee. Doc #3.
>
>You sure? The only giant robot I remember which would have been around
>the Brigadier was from the first episode of Tom Baker, the Fourth
>Doctor. Admittedly I don't remember its having anything to do with
>nuclear missiles - it was a sufficiently devastating weapon all on its
>own - but I also don't remember any other candidates.
No, that's right, they used the devastating robot to rip the
doors off safes in order to collect the plot tokens (except now
I'm thinking it was parts of a dematerialization gun... maybe
they were going to use THAT to get the launch codes...) The
robot was giant enough on his own, eight feet or so, but somehow
grew to a larger size via bad video effects that also made it
look like it sank up to its knees in the ground.
--
-Jack
Jack Bohn
I wasn't sure about Bebop, I was thinking our characters just ran
into a lot of it, while its part of the opening narration of OS.
--
-Jack
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
And clearly part of the background of Firefly by Whedon as well. I
don't think that's coincidence, given some other OS similarities.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com