OT: No comments on the Avatar Movie Cast?
Lee Ratner
I'm surprised that nobody has commented on the casting choices
announced for the Avatar: The Last Airbender movie made in early
December. For those who do not know, Aang will be played by Noah
Ringer. Sokka and Katara by Jackson Rathbone and Nicola Peltz,
respectively. Zuko will be played by Jesse McCartney.
Thats right, white actors will be playing the leads from the
unquestionably and extremely Asian-influenced Avatar: The Last
Airbender. The producers do not even have the excuse that the
Dragonball movie people could use. The character designs on Aang are
rather realistically Asian and the setting is very much a mash of
different Asian cultures with a side of Inuit.
Many fans are pissed at the decision and have begun a letter
writing campaign. Asian-American fans are the most pissed at all,
especially since the Director himself is Asian, specifically Indian,
and they feel that he should have known better.
I'm angry but not terribly surprised. Hollywood people are
notoriously risk averse and loath to fund any projects without any
major stars in the lead roles to draw in audiences. The fact that
their no major, well-known Asian-American adolescent, teenage, and
young adult actors to play the leads probably played no small role in
the decision to hire relatively better known white actors of the
appropriate age bracket.* Hollywood is also not known for having much
use for Asians, especially Asian boy or men. So while the casting
choices are very unfortunate, it is not surprising. Since the people
who care the most about this are a periphery demographic, the letter
writing campaign will amount to nothing probably. I really can't
imagine the real demographic, American elementary and middle school
kids, really caring about casting whites for Asian-esque characters.
*The producers might have even felt that they had open casting
that they would not be able to find enough Asian-American actors to
play all the parts. Most of the Asian-Americans who are of the right
age are probably the children of immigrants or young immigrants
themselves or at best the grandchildren of Americans. Their parents
are probably not the type that would take their children to try out
for a movie role on their own accord or be especially tolerant of
their kids trying out and would probably prefer their kids to focus on
becoming more mundane professions like a doctor.
Dave Baranyi
"Lee Ratner" <LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:edca3b7d-460d-4284...@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>
> I'm surprised that nobody has commented on the casting choices
> announced for the Avatar: The Last Airbender movie made in early
> December.
(clip...)
Why are you surprised? I would expect that particular topic to be discussed
in some live action movie or Avatar newsgroup.
Dave Baranyi
(Feeling bored and uncharitable after sitting through episode 1 of "White
Album".)
Fish Eye no Miko
> "Lee Ratner" <LBRat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >I'm surprised that nobody has commented on the casting choices
> > announced for the Avatar: The Last Airbender movie made in early
> > December.
>
> Why are you surprised? I would expect that particular topic to be
> discussed in some live action movie or Avatar newsgroup.
Yeah. They're been several posts about it on the Avatar community on
livejournal.
http://community.livejournal.com/avatar_fans
Catherine Johnson.
Lee Ratner
<a_nospam.b_nospam@sym_nos_p_am_atico.ca> wrote:
> "Lee Ratner" <LBRat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:edca3b7d-460d-4284...@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > I'm surprised that nobody has commented on the casting choices
> > announced for the Avatar: The Last Airbender movie made in early
> > December.
>
> (clip...)
>
> Why are you surprised? I would expect that particular topic to be discussed
> in some live action movie or Avatar newsgroup.
>
the show when
it aired on Nick. There is a bit of excitement and a little dread when
the live action posting
was announced. We also had a rather lively discussion on whether it
was appropriate to pick
a white man to play Goku when talking about the live action Dragon
Ball movie. I figured with all
of these factors that people would post about the topic.
Lee Ratner
do any good
but it could not hurt. What would help is to expose Paramount to the
largest amount
of negative publicity about this topic and get as many prominent
people as possible
in entertainment and the media to attack them and mock them, although
this is highly
unlikely. However, for a moment, imagine what Keith Olberman, could do
with this in one of
his special comments. Its not normally up his ally to do a comment
about entertainment but he
is sensitive about race issues and might be willing to go into this
for a minute.
Dave Baranyi
On Jan 3, 7:51 pm, "Dave Baranyi"
<a_nospam.b_nospam@sym_nos_p_am_atico.ca> wrote:
> "Lee Ratner" <LBRat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:edca3b7d-460d-4284...@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > I'm surprised that nobody has commented on the casting choices
> > announced for the Avatar: The Last Airbender movie made in early
> > December.
>
> (clip...)
>
> Why are you surprised? I would expect that particular topic to be
> discussed
> in some live action movie or Avatar newsgroup.
>
> Because many people here are Avatar fans and often posted about
> the show when
> it aired on Nick.
I remember Lurker posting on it, and a few others - Catherine being one I
think. - But "many"?
> There is a bit of excitement and a little dread when
> the live action posting
> was announced.
Here at r.a.a.m.? I must have missed that.
> We also had a rather lively discussion on whether it
> was appropriate to pick
> a white man to play Goku when talking about the live action Dragon
> Ball movie.
Dragon Ball was an anime the last time that I checked. I'm watching another
Toriyama anime right now - Dr. Slump and Arale-chan.
> I figured with all
> of these factors that people would post about the topic.
It appears that those aren't the factors that will get people to post much
about an Avatar live action movie here at r.a.a.m.
Dave Baranyi
(Getting very worried that "Akikan" might, by default, become the
second-most interesting new January 09 anime after "Maria Holic".)
Arnold Kim
>
> I'm surprised that nobody has commented on the casting choices
> announced for the Avatar: The Last Airbender movie made in early
> December. For those who do not know, Aang will be played by Noah
> Ringer. Sokka and Katara by Jackson Rathbone and Nicola Peltz,
> respectively. Zuko will be played by Jesse McCartney.
>
> Thats right, white actors will be playing the leads from the
> unquestionably and extremely Asian-influenced Avatar: The Last
> Airbender. The producers do not even have the excuse that the
> Dragonball movie people could use. The character designs on Aang are
> rather realistically Asian and the setting is very much a mash of
> different Asian cultures with a side of Inuit.
And here I thought the days of David Carradine playing a role originally
made for Bruce Lee were behind us now...
Arnold Kim
D B Malmquist
>
> (Getting very worried that "Akikan" might, by default, become the
> second-most interesting new January 09 anime after "Maria Holic".)
From your description, there's not enough (female) fanservice
for that. (Will Kanokon's "high" water mark for TV ecchiness
be topped this decade?)
I figure there's a 1/3 chance the "Munto" TV series could be
one of the great TV anime productions of the decade. Also,
the "Ride Back" trailer seems encouraging.
-dbm
Arnold Kim
"Lee Ratner" <LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:edca3b7d-460d-4284...@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>
By the way, here's a link to the letter writing campaign if anyone is
interested:
http://aang-aint-white.livejournal.com/646.html
I'm not the biggest Avatar fan (it just never really interested me for some
reason) but their excuses for an all white cast are ridiculous. Hell, the
much maligned Dragon Ball movie at least got Asian actors for Yamcha, Roshi,
and Mai, even if Goku is white.
There never was much room for Asians, especially Asian males, in Hollywood,
but at least we had martial arts movies. Now even that's not a sure thing!
Arnold Kim
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Yamucha was a miscast in my view; Yamucha of the Desert should have
been Middle-Eastern looking (my vision of him was sort of like the head
of the Medjai in The Mummy/The Mummy Returns), and Goku was a bloody
ALIEN so there's no reason to assume he's going to look Asian.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Lee Ratner
> "Lee Ratner" <LBRat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
Avatar movies
are being aimed at kids and it sends to kids the very bad message that
Asians
are not even good enough to play Asians. The Paramount people can't
even make
the argument that they were going for name recognition when selecting
the main cast
because none of the main cast has name recognition. The guy playing
Aang apparently
is just a Texan who is good at marital arts. Never did a bit of acting
in his life. They could
not find an Asain-American kid who is good at martial arts and seems
to be a good actor?
From what I've read on the internet, which means it is probably
false but it might be true, M. Night
wanted an Asian-American boy to play Aang but was shot down by the
studio people.
Lee Ratner
>
> By the way, here's a link to the letter writing campaign if anyone is
> interested:
>
> http://aang-aint-white.livejournal.com/646.html
>
primary audience for
Avatar, kids in elementary and middle school, are joining the
campaign. It shows that
they realize how racist the casting decision are and when a young kids
recognizes the
actions are racist but you do not, it means you are a moron.
Unfortunately, I do not feel that a letter-writing campaign is
enough. Paramount can just
denounce the letters as those as fanatics. What is needed is for
Paramount to receive a lot
of outside pressure for prominent people in the media. Like say
routinely being denounced
in newspaper editorials or Keith Olberman.
> I'm not the biggest Avatar fan (it just never really interested me for some
> reason) but their excuses for an all white cast are ridiculous. Hell, the
> much maligned Dragon Ball movie at least got Asian actors for Yamcha, Roshi,
> and Mai, even if Goku is white.
>
They might announce Asians to play the rest of the cast in
Avatar but who knows.
> There never was much room for Asians, especially Asian males, in Hollywood,
> but at least we had martial arts movies. Now even that's not a sure thing!
>
The NY Times had a good editorial on this when Pat Morita died.
Derek Janssen
>
> From what I've read on the internet, which means it is probably
> false but it might be true, M. Night
> wanted an Asian-American boy to play Aang but was shot down by the
> studio people.
[Pre-joke DISCLAIMER: I *liked* "The Happening"--It was creepy where it
was supposed to be, and although the primal urge is to shoot down
everything M. Night does because he hasn't quit yet, at least he showed
us the courtesy of going back to his pre-"Village" roots and trying to
remake his good-era "Signs", like we wanted him to.
I bear the movie no ill will, and I've had to stick up for its few good
points literally more times than I've cared to.]
That said, and duly noted, I have to ask:
So, who plays the member of the Earth Nation, who talks to trees? ;)
Derek Janssen (yes, a cheap shot, like we're not already going to be
buried in them come Razzies time...Was it worth the perfect lead-in?)
eja...@verizon.net
Arnold Kim
"Lee Ratner" <LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:eddab89d-9b6a-447e...@f24g2000vbf.googlegroups.com...
>
> Unfortunately, I do not feel that a letter-writing campaign is
> enough. Paramount can just
> denounce the letters as those as fanatics. What is needed is for
> Paramount to receive a lot
> of outside pressure for prominent people in the media. Like say
> routinely being denounced
> in newspaper editorials or Keith Olberman.
There's a news article on the racial aspects of the casting on IMDB, which a lot of industry people visit. Not much, but it's a start.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0938283/news#ni0634819
Arnold Kim
Rob Kelk
wrote:
>
> I'm surprised that nobody has commented on the casting choices
>announced for the Avatar: The Last Airbender movie made in early
>December.
There's an Avatar movie? (I don't follow American animation that
closely...)
<snip>
--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> e-mail: s/deadspam/gmail/
"And really, you think people who watch Japanese cartoons would be
a little more understanding of the seemingly odd hobbies of other
fringe groups." - Chris "Blade" McNeil, 20 Jan 2004
Redkanary
the Asian stuff out of rebroadcast anime, it was nice to see an
American-made show that was putting it all back in. On purpose.
- Red.
Derek Janssen
Well, it's not an Asian show anyway, why should we be bothered that
there aren't any Asians in it? ;)
Derek Janssen (did they remember to cast French and Canadians in it?)
eja...@verizon.net
Aya the Vampire Slayer
> I'm surprised that nobody has commented on the casting choices
>announced for the Avatar: The Last Airbender movie made in early
>December. For those who do not know, Aang will be played by Noah
>Ringer. Sokka and Katara by Jackson Rathbone and Nicola Peltz,
>respectively. Zuko will be played by Jesse McCartney.
> Thats right, white actors will be playing the leads from the
>unquestionably and extremely Asian-influenced Avatar: The Last
>Airbender. The producers do not even have the excuse that the
>Dragonball movie people could use. The character designs on Aang are
>rather realistically Asian and the setting is very much a mash of
>different Asian cultures with a side of Inuit.
The people cast do seem to have reasonably good likenesses to the
animated series characters (assuming appropriate hair styling and color
contacts). While the series is definitely asian influenced, the
characters aren't actually asian, since this does not take place on
earth. They just seem to have very asian cultures. Heck, they don't even
look asian to me, except maaaybe Iroh (in the animated series, that is).
Because of this, it just doesn't bother me. Anything is fair game
really. How many of the animated series voice actors were asian? Just
the first Uncle Iroh? Why isn't everyone all bent out of shape about
that? Seriously, they've only cast four characters so far, all of whom
had white voice actors in the canon that is the animated TV series. That
leaves quite a few supporting characters as yet uncast. All the whining
may cause them to cast some of the supporting characters as asians, but
I seriously doubt they'll recant on any of the main four people they've
cast so far.
What I really want to know is:
1) Why aren't there any pics online of this mysterious Noah Ringer guy?
2) Azula! Who will be Azula!
--
"Care must be exorcised when handring Opiticar System as it is apts to
be sticked by dusts and hand-fat." --Japanese Translators
"Keep your fingers off the lens." --Elton Byington, English Translator
Arnold Kim
"Aya the Vampire Slayer" <ry...@gatech.rmv.this.part.edu> wrote in message news:gk0h54$e1q$1...@news-int2.gatech.edu...
> Lee Ratner <LBRa...@gmail.com> wa:
>> I'm surprised that nobody has commented on the casting choices
>>announced for the Avatar: The Last Airbender movie made in early
>>December. For those who do not know, Aang will be played by Noah
>>Ringer. Sokka and Katara by Jackson Rathbone and Nicola Peltz,
>>respectively. Zuko will be played by Jesse McCartney.
>
>> Thats right, white actors will be playing the leads from the
>>unquestionably and extremely Asian-influenced Avatar: The Last
>>Airbender. The producers do not even have the excuse that the
>>Dragonball movie people could use. The character designs on Aang are
>>rather realistically Asian and the setting is very much a mash of
>>different Asian cultures with a side of Inuit.
>
> The people cast do seem to have reasonably good likenesses to the
> animated series characters (assuming appropriate hair styling and color
> contacts). While the series is definitely asian influenced, the
> characters aren't actually asian, since this does not take place on
> earth. They just seem to have very asian cultures. Heck, they don't even
> look asian to me, except maaaybe Iroh (in the animated series, that is).
Would you be equally supportive if they cast Asian actors in the European culture-based Lord of the Rings movies?
Arnold Kim
Redkanary
might remember him as Rufio in "Hook." And if he weren't in his
thirties, he'd be perfect.
- Red
Invid Fan
<816cfffd-cd3b-459f...@z27g2000prd.googlegroups.com>,
Redkanary <redk...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Actually, the guy who did Zuko's Asian. Dante Basco's Filipino. You
> might remember him as Rufio in "Hook." And if he weren't in his
> thirties, he'd be perfect.
>
And I THINK the girl who does Suki is Asian. She was in the road
production of Avenue Q.
--
Chris Mack *quote under construction*
'Invid Fan'
Invid Fan
<arno...@optonline.net> wrote:
I would, to be honest. It's one thing to use makeup to make locals look
foreign instead of hiring actors of that ethnic group, and another to
just ignore ethnicity and assume everyone looks like you. I'd fully
expect a Korean production of Tom Sawyer to have a Korean cast.
Lee Ratner
<ry...@gatech.rmv.this.part.edu> wrote:
>
> The people cast do seem to have reasonably good likenesses to the
> animated series characters (assuming appropriate hair styling and color
> contacts). While the series is definitely asian influenced, the
> characters aren't actually asian, since this does not take place on
> earth. They just seem to have very asian cultures. Heck, they don't even
> look asian to me, except maaaybe Iroh (in the animated series, that is).
This is bad logic. You are right, Avatar does not take place on
earth
but the cultures of Avatar are so obviously Asian based for the most
part,
except the Water Tribe which seems more Inuit, it would be wrong not
to cast
Asians. Its like when they cast whites in the SciFi miniseries of
Earth Sea.
> What I really want to know is:
> 1) Why aren't there any pics online of this mysterious Noah Ringer guy?
Because the guy never acted in his life.
Blade
"Lee Ratner" <LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:83fea59a-c394-46a6...@e22g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 3, 11:40 pm, "Arnold Kim" <arnold...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> "Lee Ratner" <LBRat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:edca3b7d-460d-4284...@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > I'm surprised that nobody has commented on the casting choices
>> > announced for the Avatar: The Last Airbender movie made in early
>> > December. For those who do not know, Aang will be played by Noah
>> > Ringer. Sokka and Katara by Jackson Rathbone and Nicola Peltz,
>> > respectively. Zuko will be played by Jesse McCartney.
>>
>> > Thats right, white actors will be playing the leads from the
>> > unquestionably and extremely Asian-influenced Avatar: The Last
>> > Airbender. The producers do not even have the excuse that the
>> > Dragonball movie people could use. The character designs on Aang are
>> > rather realistically Asian and the setting is very much a mash of
>> > different Asian cultures with a side of Inuit.
>>
>> And here I thought the days of David Carradine playing a role originally
>> made for Bruce Lee were behind us now...
>>
> Yeah, its really disgusting. Its especially bad because the
> Avatar movies
> are being aimed at kids and it sends to kids the very bad message that
> Asians
> are not even good enough to play Asians.
I don't think kids will think about it remotely as much as you are. I
believe I asked this back in the Goku discussion, but I'll ask again anyway:
Do you get this offended when anime cast Japanese people as Westerners, as
happens in, oh, let's say, at least one out of three shows?
The Paramount people can't
> even make
> the argument that they were going for name recognition when selecting
> the main cast
> because none of the main cast has name recognition. The guy playing
> Aang apparently
> is just a Texan who is good at marital arts. Never did a bit of acting
> in his life. They could
> not find an Asain-American kid who is good at martial arts and seems
> to be a good actor?
Did you consider that perhaps they couldn't? I rather imagine the role was
not just assigned randomly, but auditioned for.
> From what I've read on the internet, which means it is probably
> false but it might be true, M. Night
> wanted an Asian-American boy to play Aang but was shot down by the
> studio people.
Why would that be better? Is Aang American? Shouldn't he be a Tibetan monk
for the most accuracy possible? Are you offended because Katara and Sokka
aren't going to be Inuit? Why or why not?
I find the notion that the only thing that makes a portrayal "real" is
ethnic background to be more questionable than the studio casting decisions.
-
Blade
Aya the Vampire Slayer
Are you implying that asians aren't good enough to play LoTR characters?
:)
Really, it just doesn't bother me and I don't care. I wouldn't really
call that "support", but simply not worth getting worked up about.
Certainly if say Japan were putting on a production of LoTR, I would
expect most if not all the actors to be Japanese (as Invid Fan said),
and further, asians would make some damn fine elves if you ask me.
And as a third point, going from an animated TV series where the
character designs are very obvious and straightforward to a written
canon (LoTR) where character appearances are vague and in some cases
non-existent, it's a little bit difficult of a comparison for me to
accept since I largely think that the majority of the Avatar characters
look white (in the animated TV series).
Aya the Vampire Slayer
>Actually, the guy who did Zuko's Asian. Dante Basco's Filipino. You
>might remember him as Rufio in "Hook." And if he weren't in his
>thirties, he'd be perfect.
Heh, I actually realized that a little while after posting. His name
didn't jump out at me as ZOMG ASIAN like Mako's did when I did a quick
glance over the main cast. Owel!
BTW, I watched the special features on the Season 3 boxset, including
the Comic Con season 3 panel, and whoa, either the room was packed with
chicks or Zuko is by far and away the favorite character of the series.
Aya the Vampire Slayer
>On Jan 6, 4:06?pm, Aya the Vampire Slayer
><ry...@gatech.rmv.this.part.edu> wrote:
>> The people cast do seem to have reasonably good likenesses to the
>> animated series characters (assuming appropriate hair styling and color
>> contacts). While the series is definitely asian influenced, the
>> characters aren't actually asian, since this does not take place on
>> earth. They just seem to have very asian cultures. Heck, they don't even
>> look asian to me, except maaaybe Iroh (in the animated series, that is).
>This is bad logic. You are right, Avatar does not take place on earth
>but the cultures of Avatar are so obviously Asian based for the most
>part, except the Water Tribe which seems more Inuit, it would be wrong
>not to cast Asians.
I don't think it's wrong. The characters in the animated series don't
look asian to me. Why should they be played by asians just because their
culture is similar? And anyway, it seems the creators discarded much of
the rotten side of asian culture and kept only some of the good stuff,
so while it does have a distinctly asian flavor, I think that's largely
because the western flavor is completely overlooked by westerners since
we're used to seeing that type of culture in our shows.
>Its like when they cast whites in the SciFi miniseries of Earth Sea.
That abomination of a miniseries doesn't even need to get into the
racial thing to be considered an abomination.
>> What I really want to know is:
>> 1) Why aren't there any pics online of this mysterious Noah Ringer guy?
> Because the guy never acted in his life.
It seems like some people had posted pics but some C&Ds got sent or
something. Some sites will say "image removed due to xyz". Seems
suspicious. Oh well, I hope he turns out to be a decent actor, at least
it seems like he can handle the intense martial arts aspect of the
series.
Lee Ratner
Many of the fans in the letter-wrighting campaign seem quite
young.
> Do you get this offended when anime cast Japanese people as Westerners, as
> happens in, oh, let's say, at least one out of three shows?
Yes, especially when the result is either awful because it is
completely unconvincing or comes off blatantly racist.
Japan might have a bit of a language issue but Takeshi Miike managed
to do a entire movie in English with non-English speakers so teaching
non-Japanese speakers to act phonetically in Japanese should be
possible. The certainly have the money for getting non-Japanese
actors.
> The Paramount people can't
>
> > even make
> > the argument that they were going for name recognition when selecting
> > the main cast
> > because none of the main cast has name recognition. The guy playing
> > Aang apparently
> > is just a Texan who is good at marital arts. Never did a bit of acting
> > in his life. They could
> > not find an Asain-American kid who is good at martial arts and seems
> > to be a good actor?
>
> Did you consider that perhaps they couldn't? I rather imagine the role was
> not just assigned randomly, but auditioned for.
It is a definite possibility that not enough Asian-American
actors
auditioned, I admit that much. I doubt this was a problem though.
Hollywood has
a tradition of not really having much use for Asian-Americans in
leading roles, especially
if the Asian-American is a man. When Kung Fu aired on TV, Bruce Lee
was set to be the star
but at the last minute, the executives decided that a white guy
pretending to be a Chinese person
would go over a lot better. There are also tapes of Asian-American
boys auditioning for the part of
Aang on YouTube and some of them are quite good. The fact that they
picked an unknown white kid
over an unknown Asian-American kid raises alarming implications.
Now let me ask you some questions: Does it bother you that
Hollywood and television shows
routinely fail to cast Asian-Americans, particularly men and boys, and
when adapting roles tends to
turn Asians into whites, like they did when they turned Bringing Down
the House into 21, on the grounds
that Asian-Americans can not draw audiences in yet they never try to
have Asian-American leads?
They are not cultivating Asian-American actors like they would
cultivate actors of other races. They are being
unusually risk averse in this regard.
Another question, anime fans have been complaining about the
removal of the Japanese elements from anime shown on American TV for
years and saying that American kids are intelligent enough to handle
the Japanese elements and enjoy the show. Avatar is an American
cartoon with unquestionable Asian influences but the live-action
people decided an Asian cast will not do, apparently on the old theory
that non-Asian American will not see a movie with Asian leads, despite
the success of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Isn't this kind of what
we are protesting about when it came to anime? Why can't we assume
kids are intelligent enough to enjoy a movie where most actors are of
Asian descent? Isn't this like the Sci-Fi network whitewashing
Earthsea.
Blade
> On Jan 7, 9:08 am, "Blade" <kumonr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > Yeah, its really disgusting. Its especially bad because the
>> > Avatar movies
>> > are being aimed at kids and it sends to kids the very bad message that
>> > Asians
>> > are not even good enough to play Asians.
>>
>> I don't think kids will think about it remotely as much as you are. I
>> believe I asked this back in the Goku discussion, but I'll ask again
>> anyway:
>
> Many of the fans in the letter-wrighting campaign seem quite
> young.
Yes, but they would be a small subset of the actual audience. Really,
though, I guess this one's pretty much a matter of opinion. I really don't
see a lot of kids being deeply concerned about the racial implications of
Aang's casting, however.
>> Do you get this offended when anime cast Japanese people as Westerners,
>> as
>> happens in, oh, let's say, at least one out of three shows?
>
> Yes, especially when the result is either awful because it is
> completely unconvincing or comes off blatantly racist.
> Japan might have a bit of a language issue but Takeshi Miike managed
> to do a entire movie in English with non-English speakers so teaching
> non-Japanese speakers to act phonetically in Japanese should be
> possible. The certainly have the money for getting non-Japanese
> actors.
Okay, that's cool. I don't agree with you, nonetheless, but I'm glad you
don't turn a blind eye to what goes on in anime.
>> Did you consider that perhaps they couldn't? I rather imagine the role
>> was
>> not just assigned randomly, but auditioned for.
>
> It is a definite possibility that not enough Asian-American
> actors
> auditioned, I admit that much. I doubt this was a problem though.
> Hollywood has
> a tradition of not really having much use for Asian-Americans in
> leading roles, especially
> if the Asian-American is a man. When Kung Fu aired on TV, Bruce Lee
> was set to be the star
> but at the last minute, the executives decided that a white guy
> pretending to be a Chinese person
> would go over a lot better. There are also tapes of Asian-American
> boys auditioning for the part of
> Aang on YouTube and some of them are quite good. The fact that they
> picked an unknown white kid
> over an unknown Asian-American kid raises alarming implications.
It doesn't raise alarming implications to me. It basically says "the
director thought this guy would be better-suited for the role than any of
the 'asian-looking; people who auditioned." Neither you nor I are aware of
why he thought that. However, I assume you are aware that the director is,
himself, Asian. Therefore, I am dubious as to your contention that he picked
a white actor because he is racist against Asian-Americans.
> Now let me ask you some questions: Does it bother you that
> Hollywood and television shows
> routinely fail to cast Asian-Americans, particularly men and boys, and
> when adapting roles tends to
> turn Asians into whites, like they did when they turned Bringing Down
> the House into 21, on the grounds
> that Asian-Americans can not draw audiences in yet they never try to
> have Asian-American leads?
I think you are making unwarranted assumptions on why this is, so I don't
agree with the question. Jackie Chan's made a pretty good career for himself
in Hollywood.
> They are not cultivating Asian-American actors like they would
> cultivate actors of other races. They are being
> unusually risk averse in this regard.
Other races? To make a point, there's not a lot of Inuit leading role
players either. Nor are there, for instance, a lot of Indian people with
major roles in Hollywood (M. Night nonwithstanding). Is that inevitably and
invariably because of racism? I would say not. I wouldn't say it doesn't
exist, but I also would not point to it as a primary factor.
And Hollywood is very risk-averse to all sorts of things.
> Another question, anime fans have been complaining about the
> removal of the Japanese elements from anime shown on American TV for
> years and saying that American kids are intelligent enough to handle
> the Japanese elements and enjoy the show. Avatar is an American
> cartoon with unquestionable Asian influences but the live-action
> people decided an Asian cast will not do, apparently on the old theory
> that non-Asian American will not see a movie with Asian leads, despite
> the success of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Isn't this kind of what
Once again I question your insight into the minds of other people. Would you
care to point to an interview by M. Night Shyamalan where he says this is
why he did not cast Asians in the role?
> we are protesting about when it came to anime? Why can't we assume
> kids are intelligent enough to enjoy a movie where most actors are of
> Asian descent? Isn't this like the Sci-Fi network whitewashing
> Earthsea.
I feel the need to point out that I think a lot of such complaints by anime
fans amount to unsatisfiable whining that refuses to take market realities
into account. Not all, but a lot. I don't really know anything about
Earthsea, so I decline to comment on that.
-
Blade
Galen
<LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>When Kung Fu aired on TV, Bruce Lee
>was set to be the star
>but at the last minute, the executives decided that a white guy
>pretending to be a Chinese person
>would go over a lot better.
I agree with them. Racism was a recurring theme
in Kung Fu, and a chink "pretending to be human"
is a role better played by a white man so that the
attitudes being considered aren't being reinforced.
-Galen
Arnold Kim
"Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:gk3h6b$lo5$1...@news.albasani.net...
> "Lee Ratner" <LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:65bd3a8d-ace1-4ba5...@r36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
>>> was
>>> not just assigned randomly, but auditioned for.
>>
>> It is a definite possibility that not enough Asian-American
>> actors
>> auditioned, I admit that much. I doubt this was a problem though.
>> Hollywood has
>> a tradition of not really having much use for Asian-Americans in
>> leading roles, especially
>> if the Asian-American is a man. When Kung Fu aired on TV, Bruce Lee
>> was set to be the star
>> but at the last minute, the executives decided that a white guy
>> pretending to be a Chinese person
>> would go over a lot better. There are also tapes of Asian-American
>> boys auditioning for the part of
>> Aang on YouTube and some of them are quite good. The fact that they
>> picked an unknown white kid
>> over an unknown Asian-American kid raises alarming implications.
>
> It doesn't raise alarming implications to me. It basically says "the
> director thought this guy would be better-suited for the role than any of
> the 'asian-looking; people who auditioned." Neither you nor I are aware of
> why he thought that. However, I assume you are aware that the director is,
> himself, Asian. Therefore, I am dubious as to your contention that he picked
> a white actor because he is racist against Asian-Americans.
I don't think it means that he himself is racist, but I don't know if he's necessarily considered the history of the Asian American struggle in Hollywood. To me, it's not as much about the issue of one role or one movie as much as it is about the lack of Asian American media visibility in general.
And I don't know if colorblind casting is really right for a film that is so completely entrenched in Asian culture, anyway. To me, it would be as odd as Peter Jackson doing an all Asian version of The Lord of the Rings.
>> Now let me ask you some questions: Does it bother you that
>> Hollywood and television shows
>> routinely fail to cast Asian-Americans, particularly men and boys, and
>> when adapting roles tends to
>> turn Asians into whites, like they did when they turned Bringing Down
>> the House into 21, on the grounds
>> that Asian-Americans can not draw audiences in yet they never try to
>> have Asian-American leads?
>
> I think you are making unwarranted assumptions on why this is, so I don't
> agree with the question. Jackie Chan's made a pretty good career for himself
> in Hollywood.
Jackie Chan was a proven international star by the time he hit Hollywood, though. Producers follow the money.
And I don't think that Jackie Chan's really the best barometer. There are always going to be exceptions; the vast majority of Asian actors are going to fall into roles that are stereotypical or incidental, and it is at least from my eyes, a rate that is higher than that of caucasian actors. There are very, very few meaty roles played by Asian Americans, from what I've seen.
>> They are not cultivating Asian-American actors like they would
>> cultivate actors of other races. They are being
>> unusually risk averse in this regard.
>
> Other races? To make a point, there's not a lot of Inuit leading role
> players either. Nor are there, for instance, a lot of Indian people with
> major roles in Hollywood (M. Night nonwithstanding). Is that inevitably and
> invariably because of racism? I would say not. I wouldn't say it doesn't
> exist, but I also would not point to it as a primary factor.
I think that you're right in that it's not the only factor, there's the fact that acting is not really considered a viable career in many Asian families (though perhaps when more Asians get varied, meaty, roles, more Asians will pursue the career). But that combined with the fact that the roles they do get are often quite stereotypical (nerd, martial artist, dragon lady, hypersexualized women, desexualized men) suggests to me that it plays a bigger role than you might expect.
Arnold Kim
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
> Redkanary <redk...@yahoo.com> wa:
> >Actually, the guy who did Zuko's Asian. Dante Basco's Filipino. You
> >might remember him as Rufio in "Hook." And if he weren't in his
> >thirties, he'd be perfect.
>
> Heh, I actually realized that a little while after posting. His name
> didn't jump out at me as ZOMG ASIAN like Mako's did when I did a quick
> glance over the main cast. Owel!
>
> BTW, I watched the special features on the Season 3 boxset, including
> the Comic Con season 3 panel, and whoa, either the room was packed with
> chicks or Zuko is by far and away the favorite character of the series.
>
Oh, I was at the Avatar panel at NYAF '07, and you wouldn't be wrong: ^_^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_yCYXPyoiU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7zgL3H8boM
Ah those crazy Avatar fans... They pushed those two insignificant
short 30-sec clips to the top echelons of Youtube for a day....
Laters. =)
Stan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ LostRune+sig [at] UofR [dot] net
| ( _| | http://www.uofr.net/~lostrune/
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___|__| |__|___| \ ___|
Blade
news:4965664f$0$14313$607e...@cv.net...
> "Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:gk3h6b$lo5$1...@news.albasani.net...
>> "Lee Ratner" <LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:65bd3a8d-ace1-4ba5...@r36g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
But my point is, just because there is an issue with Asian-Americans in
Hollywood (which I'm not denying) does not mean you can assume that any
given example is the result of racist bias without any corroborating
evidence.
> And I don't know if colorblind casting is really right for a film that is
> so completely entrenched in Asian culture, anyway. To me, it would be as
> odd as Peter Jackson doing an all Asian version of The Lord of the Rings.
It's not set in the real world, and there is no "Asia" there. And once
again, do you therefore demand Katara and Sokka be Inuit? Their culture is
just as entrenched.
>>> Now let me ask you some questions: Does it bother you that
>>> Hollywood and television shows
>>> routinely fail to cast Asian-Americans, particularly men and boys, and
>>> when adapting roles tends to
>>> turn Asians into whites, like they did when they turned Bringing Down
>>> the House into 21, on the grounds
>>> that Asian-Americans can not draw audiences in yet they never try to
>>> have Asian-American leads?
>>
>> I think you are making unwarranted assumptions on why this is, so I don't
>> agree with the question. Jackie Chan's made a pretty good career for
>> himself
>> in Hollywood.
>
> Jackie Chan was a proven international star by the time he hit Hollywood,
> though. Producers follow the money.
"Proven international star" doesn't mean much to Hollywood. Lots of "proven
international stars" have flopped there. Hollywood is THE big pond. Jackie
Chan succeeded because he appealed to American audiences; it's true he got
the chance because of his success elsewhere, but that wouldn't have meant
much if he couldn't draw money in leading roles in American productions.
> And I don't think that Jackie Chan's really the best barometer. There are
> always going to be exceptions; the vast majority of Asian actors are going
> to fall into roles that are stereotypical or incidental, and it is at
> least from my eyes, a rate that is higher than that of caucasian actors.
> There are very, very few meaty roles played by Asian Americans, from what
> I've seen.
That's a false dichotomy, though. There are a hell of a lot more Caucasians
in the industry than there are Asians. Caucasian people are the baseline
"normal guy" in North America by dint of larger population size (by quite a
large margin) than any other ethnic group, you can't expect them to be
"pigeonholed", any more than the overwhelming preponderance of roles in
Nigerian cinema being taken up by blacks is "pigeonholing" everyone else.
I'm not saying that Asian-origin actors (or, for that matter, Native North
Americans, people of African descent, people of Middle Eastern descent,
people of Polynesian descent, etc, etc) shouldn't be cast as "normal people"
too, nor that there is not a trend towards pigeonholing Asian actors into
certain stereotypical roles, but that there are reasons beyond racism why
this is so, and one prominent one is that relatively speaking, there isn't
that many of them.
For instance, one reason that you may not have considered is that many
movies are not shot on the Western Coast, and that there is often a distinct
lack of a major Asian-descent community elsewhere. For instance, there's a
significant number of movies shot in Ottawa, my place of residence. Ottawa
simply doesn't have a huge Asian-descent population as percentage of the
population; it's quite possible there just aren't many Asian-looking actors
here (we do, however, have a large population of Arabs, especially Lebanese,
which other cities couldn't boast). A movie shot in Ottawa likely has little
opportunity to get seasoned Asian-looking actors for incidental roles; one
might turn up at an audition, but if none do, or none up to a professional
standard, it's not part of a Hollywood conspiracy when none show up in the
movie.
>>> They are not cultivating Asian-American actors like they would
>>> cultivate actors of other races. They are being
>>> unusually risk averse in this regard.
>>
>> Other races? To make a point, there's not a lot of Inuit leading role
>> players either. Nor are there, for instance, a lot of Indian people with
>> major roles in Hollywood (M. Night nonwithstanding). Is that inevitably
>> and
>> invariably because of racism? I would say not. I wouldn't say it doesn't
>> exist, but I also would not point to it as a primary factor.
>
> I think that you're right in that it's not the only factor, there's the
> fact that acting is not really considered a viable career in many Asian
> families (though perhaps when more Asians get varied, meaty, roles, more
> Asians will pursue the career). But that combined with the fact that the
> roles they do get are often quite stereotypical (nerd, martial artist,
> dragon lady, hypersexualized women, desexualized men) suggests to me that
> it plays a bigger role than you might expect.
I'll agree that there's probably a fair bit of typecasting going on, though
it's not universal. It is unfortunate, and I hope it changes. But I don't
think there's any evidence that racism is behind the casting choices in
Avatar, and jumping to the conclusion that it is the only possible reason is
not being fair.
-
Blade
Lee Ratner
> "Arnold Kim" <arnold...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>
> > And I don't know if colorblind casting is really right for a film that is
> > so completely entrenched in Asian culture, anyway. To me, it would be as
> > odd as Peter Jackson doing an all Asian version of The Lord of the Rings.
>
> It's not set in the real world, and there is no "Asia" there. And once
> again, do you therefore demand Katara and Sokka be Inuit? Their culture is
> just as entrenched.
Avatar is not set in the real world and neither is Middle Earth
or Earth Sea or many other fantasy novels. However, often the cultures
of these off-world shows are based on real world cultures by the
concious choice of the creator. The world of Avatar is obviously based
on the various Asian cultures of this world. In Le Guin's Earth Sea,
she made a concious choice to have most of the people be people of
color. In the media adaptions of Avatar and Earthsea, the adaptors
decided to cast whites in the roles that the creators envisioned as
non-whites. Does not the intent of the creator count?
Lee Ratner
>
> I don't think it means that he himself is racist, but I don't know if he's necessarily considered the history of the Asian American struggle in Hollywood. To me, it's not as much about the issue of one role or one movie as much as it is about the lack of Asian American media visibility in general.
I think you hit the nail on the head Arnold. Hollywood refuses to
cast Asian-American in minor or major roles because they believe that
Asian-Americans can not be viable stars. However by continually
refusing to cast Asian-Americans, they ensure that Asian-Americans
could never be viable stars.
> And I don't know if colorblind casting is really right for a film that is so completely entrenched in Asian culture, anyway. To me, it would be as odd as Peter Jackson doing an all Asian version of The Lord of the Rings.
Many people are trying to justify not casting Asians by saying
that Avatar does not take place on earth. I think this is not really a
good argument. The creators of Avatar used the Asian cultures of this
world as their base for the world of Avatar down to the food the
characters eat and the clothes on their backs. Most of the characters
have a vaguely to very Asian design. The lightest hair color is medium
brown and most are black haired. The creators made a conscious choice
that the world of Avatar is "Asian" and their intent is important when
casting a live action movie.
> Jackie Chan was a proven international star by the time he hit Hollywood, though. Producers follow the money.
Hollywood is notoriously risk adverse and this is why the
choice Jackie Chan and Jet Li as their Asian male stars because both
were known quantities to a certain extent. Asian-American actors are
unknown quantities, even more than an unknown white person or black
person or Hispanic person, and are less likely to get minor or major
roles.
> And I don't think that Jackie Chan's really the best barometer. There are always going to be exceptions; the vast majority of Asian actors are going to fall into roles that are stereotypical or incidental, and it is at least from my eyes, a rate that is higher than that of caucasian actors. There are very, very few meaty roles played by Asian Americans, from what I've seen.
>
The roles Jackie Chan and Jet Li are cast in are rather
stereotypical to.
> I think that you're right in that it's not the only factor, there's the fact that acting is not really considered a viable career in many Asian families (though perhaps when more Asians get varied, meaty, roles, more Asians will pursue the career). But that combined with the fact that the roles they do get are often quite stereotypical (nerd, martial artist, dragon lady, hypersexualized women, desexualized men) suggests to me that it plays a bigger role than you might expect.
>
Avatar is basically a martial arts fantasy adventure series and its
going to be a martial arts fantasy adventure movie but they are still
unwilling to cast Asians.
Invid Fan
<c42ad950-9e36-4ad4...@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
Lee Ratner <LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jan 8, 8:25 am, "Blade" <kumonr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > "Arnold Kim" <arnold...@optonline.net> wrote in message
>
> >
> > > And I don't know if colorblind casting is really right for a film that is
> > > so completely entrenched in Asian culture, anyway. To me, it would be as
> > > odd as Peter Jackson doing an all Asian version of The Lord of the Rings.
> >
> > It's not set in the real world, and there is no "Asia" there. And once
> > again, do you therefore demand Katara and Sokka be Inuit? Their culture is
> > just as entrenched.
>
> Avatar is not set in the real world and neither is Middle Earth
> or Earth Sea or many other fantasy novels. However, often the cultures
> of these off-world shows are based on real world cultures by the
> concious choice of the creator. The world of Avatar is obviously based
> on the various Asian cultures of this world. In Le Guin's Earth Sea,
> she made a concious choice to have most of the people be people of
> color.
Which is fine, but I never noticed as a reader ^_^ Some of her comments
have made me kind of support an mostly white cast for Earthsea as a
form of needed integration...
> In the media adaptions of Avatar and Earthsea, the adaptors
> decided to cast whites in the roles that the creators envisioned as
> non-whites. Does not the intent of the creator count?
It never has in the history of adaptations :) I was amused to read up
on the comic strip Annie now that it's getting a complete reprint. The
creator was a strong capitalist, and hated FDR and the New Deal so much
he killed off Warbucks because he thought Capitalism was dead in the US
(bringing him back when FDR died). Consider that the next time you see
the musical or movie :)
Aya the Vampire Slayer
> Avatar is not set in the real world and neither is Middle Earth
>or Earth Sea or many other fantasy novels. However, often the cultures
>of these off-world shows are based on real world cultures by the
>concious choice of the creator. The world of Avatar is obviously based
>on the various Asian cultures of this world. In Le Guin's Earth Sea,
>she made a concious choice to have most of the people be people of
>color.
She was verbally (well, textually maybe) annoyed by this choice of
theirs. She stated so. Perhaps they should've listened to her, although
I doubt if they had cast the races to her liking that the miniseries
would have done any better (it was awful despite that).
BTW, have you seen Miyazaki Jr's adaptation? IIRC, all whites in the
cast and a terribly corny plot. But at least it's beautiful, as is
typical of studio ghibli. The Sci-Fi miniseries can't even boast of
that much. I should really break out the ghibli DVD and give it a
rewatch now that I won't have people running around screaming in the
background making it impossible to hear anything (watched it at a party
the first time...).
>In the media adaptions of Avatar and Earthsea, the adaptors
>decided to cast whites in the roles that the creators envisioned as
>non-whites.
Have the creators given a statement on their preference of asians vs
non-asians to play the Avatar characters in a live action adaptation?
Does their silence mean they don't care? If it turns out they don't
care, what would you say then?
Like I said elsewhere, they live in an asian culture but the animated
characters themselves don't really look all that asian to me. Being more
of an aesthetic person, I prefer that they match the casting to the
likeness (as much as is possible) of the animation character designs.
Admittedly, that is my personal preference.
>Does not the intent of the creator count?
People who do adaptations don't typically care much about creator
intent. It's a common problem. Very rarely does the original creator get
any kind of say in an adaptation, although it does happen veeeery
infrequently.
Blade
"Lee Ratner" <LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:c42ad950-9e36-4ad4...@g38g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
If they didn't choose to make that a requirement for giving their movie
rights? No. Obviously they didn't really care that much.
I notice you didn't respond to the rest of my post, including the rather
pertinent point that the director, who would have approval over the casting,
is himself Asian. Instead you are continuing to make accusations that
"Hollywood" is racist because they don't cast as many Asian-Americans in as
many roles as you would like. I don't think you have much - if any -
evidence to back this up, and accusations of racism should not be thrown
around casually.
-
Blade
Blade
"Lee Ratner" <LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8f39f175-f559-4a68...@r27g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 7, 9:35 pm, "Arnold Kim" <arnold...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> And I don't know if colorblind casting is really right for a film that is
>> so completely entrenched in Asian culture, anyway. To me, it would be as
>> odd as Peter Jackson doing an all Asian version of The Lord of the Rings.
>
> Many people are trying to justify not casting Asians by saying
> that Avatar does not take place on earth. I think this is not really a
> good argument. The creators of Avatar used the Asian cultures of this
> world as their base for the world of Avatar down to the food the
> characters eat and the clothes on their backs. Most of the characters
> have a vaguely to very Asian design. The lightest hair color is medium
> brown and most are black haired. The creators made a conscious choice
> that the world of Avatar is "Asian" and their intent is important when
> casting a live action movie.
Uh-huh. I notice you mention hair colour but not eye colour. I wonder why?
Aang's eyes - blue-grey (not typical Asian).
Toph's eyes - green (not typical Asian).
Zuko's eyes - gold (not typical Asian...or human).
Azula's eyes - also gold.
Iroh's eyes- also gold.
(Katara and Sokka and the Water Tribe in general are not based on Asians at
all, but Inuit, a factor you have also not addressed or expressed your
outrage concerning. Katara's blue eyes are, of course, not Inuit in the
slightest.)
And again, the creator's intent is worth squat, because a) you don't know
what all their intentions were, and b) they didn't care enough to ensure a
movie would be cast with people of any given ethnicity.
-
Blade
Aya the Vampire Slayer
>On Jan 7, 9:35?pm, "Arnold Kim" <arnold...@optonline.net> wrote:
>>I don't think it means that he himself is racist, but I don't know
>>if he's necessarily considered the history of the Asian American
>>role or one movie as much as it is about the lack of Asian American
> I think you hit the nail on the head Arnold. Hollywood refuses to
>cast Asian-American in minor or major roles because they believe that
>Asian-Americans can not be viable stars. However by continually
>refusing to cast Asian-Americans, they ensure that Asian-Americans
>could never be viable stars.
Just curious: how asian is good enough to qualify? I'll throw out Johnny
Yong Bosch since he does a lot of anime voice acting. Apparently he is
half Korean and half white (his dad is apparently of German&Irish
descent). Dean Cain is 1/4 Japanese, his birth last name is Tanaka. I
guess I don't need to mention that he played superman? Which if either
is asian enough? Or do they have to be pure bloods and/or non-Natives of
the US? Tiger Woods keeps winning all these "African American" awards
for this and that but he's only 1/4 black. I'll throw in Obama too for
good measure. Trying to quantify race makes my head spin.
Because I'm bored at work, let me throw out some anecdotes. Bear in mind
that I don't really watch all that much in the way of TV or movies; this
is mostly a few things I've watched recently. (anime is a completely
different story, though)
Heroes: Hiro Nakamura was one of the fan favorites of season 1 (possibly
#1, competing with Horn-rimmed glasses iirc), Andou (asian) survived
being killed off at the end of season 1 because of fans whining, and the
story is largely being told through Mohinder (another asian). Sulu plays
Hiro's dad too (and Hiro sis makes an appearance in season 1 at least,
and she's obviously Japanese too). I haven't watched this show past
season 1 though.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0813715/
Scrubs: the head surgeon Dr Wen is chinese (I believe) and is in quite
a few episodes, Hiro (above) has a few appearances in the series too. Dr
Wen stood out to me as he's one of the few supporting characters who
never gets made fun of or teased by the main cast.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0285403/
Battlestar Galactica: I didn't watch this, but my SO did. Apparently
there's one prominent asian character in it: Lt Sharon.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0407362/
Harold and Kumar: two asians in lead roles in relatively successful
recent movies. Raza (Iranian) is a friend of H&K, and is shown throwing
a snatch party in the 2nd movie, and even gets to show his wang in the
unrated version. Also, H&K's parents in the movies are asian (their
scene in the 2nd movie is my favorite scene of the movie).
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0366551/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0481536/
Samurai Girl: A terrible terrible ABC miniseries staring a Korean
girl playing a Japanese girl named "Heaven" (apparently I was the only
one in the US who watched this abomination, heh). Anyway, almost the
entire supporting cast is asian. This series could've been a lot better
if the writing/adaptation (from the novel) had been better. The series
takes place in California mostly.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1091234/
Older --
The Last Samurai: loaded with asians. It was an okay movie, IMO. Of
course, it had a setting in Japan which would make it really strange if
the cast wasn't loaded with asians. I was about to be all up in arms if
Tom Cruise was going to be the "last samurai", but fortunately the plot
was completely different from what I expected.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0325710/
Kill Bill: Yeah, I know. Heh. Still!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0266697/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0378194/
Also, as a random aside, a theater down the street from me (I live in
Atlanta, GA), shows new release bollywood movies all the time. I
recently (er, well in February) went to see Jodhaa Akbar there. Is this
unusual? I admit I live in a pretty big city with a sizeable Indian (and
Korean, fwiw) population. (I have about 4 Super H Marts in about a 15min
drive radius from my house)
Speaking of Jodhaa Akbar, the US seems to love Ash to death but
Hollywood has a hard time getting its hands on her. Apparently she
refuses a lot of work from this side of the pond ("She was the first
choice for the role of Jane Smith in Mr. & Mrs. Smith (2005), but she
turned it down due to filming conflicts", imdb trivia).
Further, I would die and go to fangrrl heaven if Hollywood could manage
to snag Hrithik for a few lead roles. Of course, after watching the
interviews on the Jodhaa Akbar DVD, I get the feeling his English isn't
so great. Hard to tell.
Which is another important point: asian casting also has to deal with
the stumbling block of language barrier. This is not really the case for
blacks, and I think many South/Middle Americans already speak a little
english anyway (although the Latin[ao]s tend to get horribly typecast
too).
Anyway, I'm not necessarily implying that asians have tons of work in
Hollywood, but that maybe they're not as ignored as one might think.
Depending on your definition of asian, and how pure-blooded they need to
be to satisfy you, anyway. I dunno.
Galen
Fast and Furious 3: Tokyo Drift.
Aje RavenStar
"Aya the Vampire Slayer" <ry...@gatech.rmv.this.part.edu> wrote in message
news:gk5mu1$2ln$1...@news-int.gatech.edu...
Here's one you left out (and may not have seen, since it had a short run,
but I caught it and enjoyed it) (snip borrowed from wikipedia, but more can
be found at Cho's website):
All American Girl
That same year [1994] , ABC developed and aired a sitcom based on Cho's
stand-up routine. The show, All American Girl, was initially feted as the
first show where an East Asian family was prominently featured.
Cho has expressed subsequent regret for much of what transpired during the
production of the episodes of the show.
After network executives criticized her appearance and the roundness of her
face, Cho starved herself for several weeks; her rapid weight loss, done to
modify her appearance by the time the pilot episode was filmed, caused
serious kidney failure.
The show suffered criticism from within the U.S. East Asian community over
its perception of stereotyping. Producers told Cho at different times during
production that she was "too Asian" and, that she was "not Asian enough". At
one point during the course of the show, producers hired a coach to teach
Cho how to "be more Asian".
Much of the humor was broad, and at times, stereotypical portrayals of her
close Korean relatives and homosexual book-shop customers.
The show was quickly canceled after suffering from poor ratings, and the
effect of major content changes over the course of its single season
Fish Eye no Miko
> Uh-huh. I notice you mention hair colour but not eye colour. I wonder why?
>
> Aang's eyes - blue-grey (not typical Asian).
Clouds (Air Nomads/Airbender)
> Toph's eyes - green (not typical Asian).
Grass, etc (Earth Kingdom/Earthbender)
> Zuko's eyes - gold (not typical Asian...or human).
> Azula's eyes - also gold.
> Iroh's eyes- also gold.
Flame (Fire Nation/Firebender)
> (Katara and Sokka and the Water Tribe in general are not based on
> Asians at all, but Inuit, a factor you have also not addressed or
> expressed your outrage concerning. Katara's blue eyes are, of
> course, not Inuit in the slightest.)
Sokka also has blue eyes, as do all Water Tribe members (and thus
Waterbenders).
It's color coding, and anime does it, too, even with characters that
are Asian and would logically have black hair and eyes.
Catherine Johnson.
Arnold Kim
"Aya the Vampire Slayer" <ry...@gatech.rmv.this.part.edu> wrote in message news:gk5hdd$q4$1...@news-int.gatech.edu...
> Like I said elsewhere, they live in an asian culture but the animated
> characters themselves don't really look all that asian to me. Being more
> of an aesthetic person, I prefer that they match the casting to the
> likeness (as much as is possible) of the animation character designs.
> Admittedly, that is my personal preference.
I think that whether or not they look "Asian" becomes less relevant when it comes to stylized animation, especially when it comes to the anime "style". How many anime characters actually look Japanese?
Arnold Kim
Blade
"Fish Eye no Miko" <fe...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:250bb5e6-e70c-475f...@x16g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
Yup. So why should that be ignored?
-
Blade
Invid Fan
<arno...@optonline.net> wrote:
And one can apply the same concept when converting those stylized
character designs into live action casting :)
Fish Eye no Miko
> > It's color coding, and anime does it, too, even with characters
> > that are Asian and would logically have black hair and eyes.
>
> Yup. So why should that be ignored?
So, a blonde, blue-eyed girl should play Sailor Moon?
Catherine Johnson.
Jack Bohn
>On Jan 8, 12:36 pm, "Blade" <kumonr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Uh-huh. I notice you mention hair colour but not eye colour. I wonder why?
...
>It's color coding, and anime does it, too, even with characters that
>are Asian and would logically have black hair and eyes.
Even with non-asians who would logically have black hair and
eyes. I must admit I have a little trouble with the blue-eyed
princess of Azadistan in Gundam 00.
--
-Jack
Blade
"Fish Eye no Miko" <fe...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:2d746ce8-5dbe-4e46...@p2g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
For a Western adaptation? Yup. I'd say being blonde is at least as much part
of her character as being Japanese.
(It's not like the Japanese one wasn't horrific, despite it's all-Asian
cast.)
-
Blade
Blade
"Blade" <kumo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:gk7g9t$r6q$1...@news.albasani.net...
And as a follow-up note, I'll note that Japanese live-action horrific Sailor
Moon in fact did have her wearing a blonde wig.
So I guess they think it's more important than you?
-
Blade
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
If (and I say IF, since this is obviously a theoretical thing which
would never come to pass) a live-action Sailor Moon were to be made,
yes, of course.
One would certainly never choose a little Japanese actress and put her
in an excruciatingly fake blonde wig.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
bobbie sellers
imho. :^) Better left as an anime chara.
later
bliss -- C O C O A Powered... (at sfo dot com)
--
bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco
Ningen banji Human beings do
Samazama no Every single kind
Baka a suru Of stupid thing
--- 117th edition of Haifu Yanagidaru published in 1832
Aya the Vampire Slayer
>"Aya the Vampire Slayer" <ry...@gatech.rmv.this.part.edu> wrote:
>> Like I said elsewhere, they live in an asian culture but the animated
>> characters themselves don't really look all that asian to me. Being more
>> of an aesthetic person, I prefer that they match the casting to the
>> likeness (as much as is possible) of the animation character designs.
>> Admittedly, that is my personal preference.
>I think that whether or not they look "Asian" becomes less relevant
>when it comes to stylized animation, especially when it comes to the
>anime "style". How many anime characters actually look Japanese?
The whole cast of Zipang looks Japanese, Honneamise as well IIRC. There
are plenty other examples of course. And anyway, many anime do not take
place in Japan and further, some not even on Earth, so the need to look
Japanese in those cases is a non-requirement. As for the ones that do
take place in Japan -- how many times do cosplayers dress up as these
characters and not duplicate at least the pink or blue hair? Appearance
is a large part of a character, even if it doesn't look Japanese or even
occur in nature. If cosplayers can manage to look like these goofy
stylized character designs, then I'm sure hollywood can manage too.
Just to clarify: my point is that the animated Avatar characters do not
look asian so I don't find it a requirement that the live action actors
must have asian ancestory. And by "not a requirement", I mean they
can be asian, sure, or white, sure. Doesn't matter to me either way. By
all means, cast a Filipino girl as Katara and give her some blue color
contacts. I'm all for it. Or cast a black girl and give her color
contacts, that would work too. Or an Indian girl w/contacts. Or a tanned
white girl who may not need contacts. I am vehement in my lack of
caring.
Anyways, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about this one.
Farix
> Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
>> On Jan 8, 7:53 pm, "Blade" <kumonr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> It's color coding, and anime does it, too, even with characters
>>>> that are Asian and would logically have black hair and eyes.
>>> Yup. So why should that be ignored?
>>
>> So, a blonde, blue-eyed girl should play Sailor Moon?
>
> If (and I say IF, since this is obviously a theoretical thing which
> would never come to pass) a live-action Sailor Moon were to be made,
> yes, of course.
>
> One would certainly never choose a little Japanese actress and put
> her in an excruciatingly fake blonde wig.
It has, and they did.
http://www.anime-direct.com/snaps/Sailor%20Moon%20Live%20Action.jpg
Farix
Aje RavenStar
"bobbie sellers" <bl...@sfo.com> wrote in message
news:6spg1tF...@mid.individual.net...
Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
>
>
>>> It's color coding, and anime does it, too, even with characters
>>> that are Asian and would logically have black hair and eyes.
>>>
>> Yup. So why should that be ignored?
>>
>
> So, a blonde, blue-eyed girl should play Sailor Moon?
>
> Catherine Johnson.
>
No, a blonde, blue-eyed, Japanese girl should play Sailor Moon.
imho. :^) Better left as an anime chara.
And then she can play Tina Foster in the live action Ai Yori Aoshi.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>> Fish Eye no Miko wrote:
>>> On Jan 8, 7:53 pm, "Blade" <kumonr...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> It's color coding, and anime does it, too, even with characters
>>>>> that are Asian and would logically have black hair and eyes.
>>>> Yup. So why should that be ignored?
>>>
>>> So, a blonde, blue-eyed girl should play Sailor Moon?
>>
>> If (and I say IF, since this is obviously a theoretical thing
>> which would never come to pass) a live-action Sailor Moon were to be
>> made, yes, of course.
>>
>> One would certainly never choose a little Japanese actress and put
>> her in an excruciatingly fake blonde wig.
>
> It has, and they
LA LA LA LA LAAAAAAAAA I CAN'T HEAR YOU
If, as I said, IF such a thing had been done, it would be in the same
category as, oh, Highlander 2, which is to say, something that was NOT
done even if it WAS.
Farix
Deny it all you want. It still exists.
Farix
The Wanderer
You're missing the point entirely.
--
The Wanderer
Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.
Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.
mrman1...@lycos.com
Heh. The thread drift sounds awfully familiar :-)
On Jan 3, 9:23 pm, "Dave Baranyi"
<a_nospam.b_nospam@sym_nos_p_am_atico.ca> wrote:
> "Lee Ratner" <LBRat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d1dfb739-a043-41d1...@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 3, 7:51 pm, "Dave Baranyi"
> <a_nospam.b_nospam@sym_nos_p_am_atico.ca> wrote:
> > "Lee Ratner" <LBRat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:edca3b7d-460d-4284...@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > I'm surprised that nobody has commented on the casting choices
> > > announced for the Avatar: The Last Airbender movie made in early
> > > December.
>
> > (clip...)
>
> > Why are you surprised? I would expect that particular topic to be
> > discussed
> > in some live action movie or Avatar newsgroup.
>
> > Because many people here are Avatar fans and often posted about
> > the show when
> > it aired on Nick.
>
> I remember Lurker posting on it, and a few others - Catherine being one I
> think. - But "many"?
Thank you for remembering your brothers and sisters in
rec.arts.animation :-)
I know that people post out of habit. That's why I'm here!
> > There is a bit of excitement and a little dread when
> > the live action posting
> > was announced.
>
> Here at r.a.a.m.? I must have missed that.
>
> > We also had a rather lively discussion on whether it
> > was appropriate to pick
> > a white man to play Goku when talking about the live action Dragon
> > Ball movie.
>
> Dragon Ball was an anime the last time that I checked. I'm watching another
> Toriyama anime right now - Dr. Slump and Arale-chan.
Not only that, but the casting complaints always felt like filler,
since we couldn't see and judge the finished product. It's a vortex
of fanboy screeching that's guaranteed to waste evereyone's time. (I
say this as a scarred fanboy, of course.)
> > I figured with all
> > of these factors that people would post about the topic.
>
> It appears that those aren't the factors that will get people to post much
> about an Avatar live action movie here at r.a.a.m.
With any luck, they'll post all complaints to rec.arts.animation,
where it will get the level of discussion it deserves [... he cackled
ironically]
> Dave Baranyi
>
> (Getting very worried that "Akikan" might, by default, become the
> second-most interesting new January 09 anime after "Maria Holic".)
Is it any better that xxxHolic? :-)
Terrence Briggs, signpost for lost and wandering animation fans
Peace to you...
Dave Baranyi
<mrman1...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:04a173fe-b910-44eb...@a12g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
<Crossposted to rec.arts.animation, cuz... ya know...>
Deliberately un-cross-posted, because if I wanted to post in
rec.arts.animation, I would post in rec.arts.animation.
> Heh. The thread drift sounds awfully familiar :-)
I do try to drift r.a.a.m. threads back to anime, whenever possible. (But
that's just me...)
On Jan 3, 9:23 pm, "Dave Baranyi"
<a_nospam.b_nospam@sym_nos_p_am_atico.ca> wrote:
> "Lee Ratner" <LBRat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:d1dfb739-a043-41d1...@o40g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> On Jan 3, 7:51 pm, "Dave Baranyi"
> <a_nospam.b_nospam@sym_nos_p_am_atico.ca> wrote:
> > "Lee Ratner" <LBRat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> >news:edca3b7d-460d-4284...@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > I'm surprised that nobody has commented on the casting choices
> > > announced for the Avatar: The Last Airbender movie made in early
> > > December.
>
> > (clip...)
>
> > Why are you surprised? I would expect that particular topic to be
> > discussed
> > in some live action movie or Avatar newsgroup.
>
> > Because many people here are Avatar fans and often posted about
> > the show when
> > it aired on Nick.
>
> I remember Lurker posting on it, and a few others - Catherine being one I
> think. - But "many"?
> Thank you for remembering your brothers and sisters in
> rec.arts.animation :-)
I presume that there are more of you than Catherine and you, but since I
don't frequent rec.arts.animation, I can't know for certain.
> I know that people post out of habit. That's why I'm here!
What anime are you currently watching "out of habit"?
> > There is a bit of excitement and a little dread when
> > the live action posting
> > was announced.
>
> Here at r.a.a.m.? I must have missed that.
>
> > We also had a rather lively discussion on whether it
> > was appropriate to pick
> > a white man to play Goku when talking about the live action Dragon
> > Ball movie.
>
> Dragon Ball was an anime the last time that I checked. I'm watching
> another
> Toriyama anime right now - Dr. Slump and Arale-chan.
> Not only that, but the casting complaints always felt like filler,
> since we couldn't see and judge the finished product. It's a vortex
> of fanboy screeching that's guaranteed to waste evereyone's time. (I
> say this as a scarred fanboy, of course.)
I try to hold off on complaining about casting until I actually see and hear
the cast act.
> > I figured with all
> > of these factors that people would post about the topic.
>
> It appears that those aren't the factors that will get people to post much
> about an Avatar live action movie here at r.a.a.m.
> With any luck, they'll post all complaints to rec.arts.animation,
> where it will get the level of discussion it deserves [... he cackled
> ironically]
One can hope.
> Dave Baranyi
>
> (Getting very worried that "Akikan" might, by default, become the
> second-most interesting new January 09 anime after "Maria Holic".)
> Is it any better that xxxHolic? :-)
I suspect that with a drink or two I could come up with a lot of commonality
between Akikan and xxxHolic. But then, that's because I've always wanted to
soo a LOT more Yuuko fanservice from xxxHolic.
On the other hand, if you meant Maria Holic, that might take another
episode, or an additional drink.
> Terrence Briggs, signpost for lost and wandering animation fans
> Peace to you...
Dave Baranyi
Invid Fan
<a_nospam.b_nospam@sym_nos_p_am_atico.ca> wrote:
> <mrman1...@lycos.com> wrote in message
> news:04a173fe-b910-44eb...@a12g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> > I remember Lurker posting on it, and a few others - Catherine being one I
> > think. - But "many"?
>
> > Thank you for remembering your brothers and sisters in
> > rec.arts.animation :-)
>
> I presume that there are more of you than Catherine and you, but since I
> don't frequent rec.arts.animation, I can't know for certain.
>
The last time I posted an Avatar question to r.a.a to try and bring
life to the group, I was told to post here as I'd get more responses
:-/
Antonio E. Gonzalez
<LBRa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Jan 3, 7:51 pm, "Dave Baranyi"
><a_nospam.b_nospam@sym_nos_p_am_atico.ca> wrote:
>> "Lee Ratner" <LBRat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:edca3b7d-460d-4284...@u18g2000pro.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > I'm surprised that nobody has commented on the casting choices
>> > announced for the Avatar: The Last Airbender movie made in early
>> > December.
>>
>> (clip...)
>>
>> Why are you surprised? I would expect that particular topic to be discussed
>> in some live action movie or Avatar newsgroup.
>>
> Because many people here are Avatar fans and often posted about
>the show when
>it aired on Nick. There is a bit of excitement and a little dread when
>the live action posting
>was announced. We also had a rather lively discussion on whether it
>was appropriate to pick
>a white man to play Goku when talking about the live action Dragon
>Ball movie. I figured with all
>of these factors that people would post about the topic.
This is one aspect where un unlikely movie got it right: You Don't
Mess with the Zohan.
Sure they could've gotten some of the countless Jewish actors in
Hollywood to play the Israelis, but instead the issued a casting call
in Israel itself. Yup, most of the Israelis in the movie were played
by actual Israeli actors; even the same with quite a few of the Arabs
in the movie, having them played by actual Arab actors.
Yes, it has the low-brow humor to be expected of a Happy Madison
production, but the Palestinian-Israeli issue was dealt with in a
surprisingly reverent (if occassionaly silly) manner, and they got the
actors right . . .
--
- ReFlex76
I pledge allegiance, to the flag,
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic, for which it stands,
one nation, indivisible,
wiht liberty and justice for all.