[OT] The IP Piracy Myth . . .
Antonio E. Gonzalez
<http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081010/ap_on_re_as/as_somalia_piracy>
. . . Ars Technica decided to give a closer look at Intellectual
Property piracy, adn came to the obvious conclusion . . . it's been
overblown!:
<http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/dodgy-digits-behind-the-war-on-piracy.ars>
<http://preview.tinyurl.com/4sdqm8>
As Penn Gillette, with his partner Teller, would likely say, "'Each
download is a lost sale' . . . is Bullshit!"
--
- ReFlex76
- "Let's beat the terrorists with our most powerful weapon . . . hot girl-on-girl action!"
- "The difference between young and old is the difference between looking forward to your next birthday, and dreading it!"
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<http://reflex76.blogspot.com/>
<http://www.blogger.com/profile/07245047157197572936>
Katana > Chain Saw > Baseball Bat > Hammer
darkst...@gmail.com
overblown is to basically declare the products being "pirated" (and I
speak independent of the specific product here -- this isn't just
about anime) worthless. That, at best, the products are means to
other ends (music being promotion for concerts or fan clubs or
merchandise (how much of that bitch Hannah Montana do we have to put
up with??!!?!??), anime for its merchandise...), but that,
essentially, the concept of "intellectual property" would be the
equivalent of, essentially, extorting the fanbase -- and I hope people
would see how ridiculous that concept is.
IP enforcement is the only means by which to ensure a product has a
financial value to keep a business in business -- whether that product
is anime, music, or a franchise like all the Hannah Montana shit.
Mike
Travers Naran
> With very *real* pirates making a comeback . . .:
>
> <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081010/ap_on_re_as/as_somalia_piracy>
>
> . . . Ars Technica decided to give a closer look at Intellectual
> Property piracy, adn came to the obvious conclusion . . . it's been
> overblown!:
>
>
> <http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/dodgy-digits-behind-the-war-on-piracy.ars>
>
> <http://preview.tinyurl.com/4sdqm8>
>
> As Penn Gillette, with his partner Teller, would likely say, "'Each
> download is a lost sale' . . . is Bullshit!"
I read that when it showed up on Slashdot. And you got it... wrong.
What I think the article said, and re-reading the conclusion again I
still think it says, is "the one thing we know for certain is that we
don't know for certain. And we're making policy on the basis of our
ignorance."
Translation: compared with a world with perfect IP protection and this
one, the difference in revenue lost is unknowable, and the net effect on
GDP is even more unknowable. No one can provide credible numbers for or
against IP infringement, and it is unknowable at this time.
It sounds like you read into it what you wanted to believe. You wanted
it to say: "piracy is not a problem", and that's what you got out of it.
But I do mostly agree with you. As I argued with Darkstar, just because
someone downloaded an anime doesn't mean they would have paid money for
it. And that's what is killing the anime market: the prices are too
high for the market, and if you can't produce anime for a lower price,
then maybe it's time to stop making anime.
But that's another flame war. :-)
--
-----
Travers Naran, tnaran at google's mail.com
"Welcome to RAAM. Hope you can take a beating..." -- E.L.L.
Pumbaa
news:hheIk.881$%%2.856@edtnps82...
Travers Naran, tnaran at google's mail.com
"Welcome to RAAM. Hope you can take a beating..." -- E.L.L.
**************************************************
What would be the commercial value of the last season of the anime Sailor
Moon? I purchased all of the series that was commercially subtitled for
the USA. The last season was never issued in the USA but is available as a
fan sub. I want to see all 200 episodes.
There are plenty of older anime that have never been sold in the USA. When
an anime is "out of print", never issued or not available used it must not
be worth much or else why would it not be available for sale?
DBBrandell
> "Travers Naran" <tna...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hheIk.881$%%2.856@edtnps82...
> Antonio E. Gonzalez wrote:
>>
( ... snip ... )
>
> But I do mostly agree with you. As I argued with Darkstar, just because
> someone downloaded an anime doesn't mean they would have paid money for
> it. And that's what is killing the anime market: the prices are too
> high for the market, and if you can't produce anime for a lower price,
> then maybe it's time to stop making anime.
>
> But that's another flame war. :-)
> Travers Naran, tnaran at google's mail.com
> "Welcome to RAAM. Hope you can take a beating..." -- E.L.L.
> **************************************************
>
> What would be the commercial value of the last season of the anime Sailor
> Moon? I purchased all of the series that was commercially subtitled for
> the USA. The last season was never issued in the USA but is available as a
> fan sub. I want to see all 200 episodes.
>
> There are plenty of older anime that have never been sold in the USA. When
> an anime is "out of print", never issued or not available used it must not
> be worth much or else why would it not be available for sale?
>
To the commercial market - everybody in the USA who buys DVDs - well,
yeah, I don't think the last season was worth much to them, ( the SM fad
just burned out ) and the licensing party didn't bother. To the sailor
moon die-hards, it was worth more, but I don't see a good way for them
to get together and get it released. So they're going to have to settle
for fansubs and some moral ambiguity that bothers some more than others.
Myself, if I liked it, I'd get the fansubs of the unreleased stuff and
I'd be ok with that.
I'm a Dirty Pair fan and have all the released stuff; but I like dubs,
so I've never bother to get the fansubbed TV stuff. So I sympathize
with the SM fans, but I understand that money matters rule sometimes.
DBB
bobbie sellers
> Pumbaa wrote:
>
>> "Travers Naran" <tna...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:hheIk.881$%%2.856@edtnps82...
>> Antonio E. Gonzalez wrote:
>>
>
> ( ... snip ... )
>
>
>> But I do mostly agree with you. As I argued with Darkstar, just because
>> someone downloaded an anime doesn't mean they would have paid money for
>> it. And that's what is killing the anime market: the prices are too
>> high for the market, and if you can't produce anime for a lower price,
>> then maybe it's time to stop making anime.
>>
>> But that's another flame war. :-)
>> Travers Naran, tnaran at google's mail.com
>> "Welcome to RAAM. Hope you can take a beating..." -- E.L.L.
>> **************************************************
>>
>> What would be the commercial value of the last season of the anime Sailor
>> Moon? I purchased all of the series that was commercially subtitled for
>> the USA. The last season was never issued in the USA but is available as a
>> fan sub. I want to see all 200 episodes.
>>
You think you want to see the last few episodes but the chibi Sailor
Moon wrecked
the show simply because there was no longer any doubt that the Soldiers
would win.
I watched a few of the last season before the place I rented them from
went out of
the rental business. The first season was great and the second season
was fine but
the monsters were boring after a while. Still I perservered until that
last season
when it was just too much Lunar Power and not enough Planetary Power.
But I think the SM series was great and wish I had watched it on the
first
TV run but the names in English turned me off not to mention that they lost
a lot of the sense of the names in Japanese. I didn't really even get into
anime or manga until the series was off TV. As I remarked before when I
would see the opening of the SM show at that time I would think I had
something more important to do. But age mends folly. Wish I could have
afforded to collect the first season at least when the shop quit renting
them
and sold everything off at $7/volume. Even more I wish I had grabbed
Dragon Half which I had rented and found thoughly enjoyable if not
hilarious.
>> There are plenty of older anime that have never been sold in the USA. When
>> an anime is "out of print", never issued or not available used it must not
>> be worth much or else why would it not be available for sale?
>>
>>
>
>
> To the commercial market - everybody in the USA who buys DVDs - well,
> yeah, I don't think the last season was worth much to them, ( the SM fad
> just burned out ) and the licensing party didn't bother. To the sailor
> moon die-hards, it was worth more, but I don't see a good way for them
> to get together and get it released. So they're going to have to settle
> for fansubs and some moral ambiguity that bothers some more than others.
> Myself, if I liked it, I'd get the fansubs of the unreleased stuff and
> I'd be ok with that.
>
> I'm a Dirty Pair fan and have all the released stuff; but I like dubs,
> so I've never bother to get the fansubbed TV stuff. So I sympathize
> with the SM fans, but I understand that money matters rule sometimes.
>
> DBB
>
I didn't even like KOR after the first couple of VCR episodes
but later after
reading a lot here I went back, watched the whole series but for the
last movie
and bought the whole series of KOR-TV, the OVAs and first movie and the
final
movie. It has deep flaws introduced when the manga story was modified
for the
anime but it is still one of my favorite series. The ovas and the
movies never let
me down when I need that sort of stuff. I have managed to read the manga
which is on line but I had read the manga script first and a lot of the
fan fictions
about that cast of characters. I guess I would be happy to see the
doujinshi
as well.
But you need dealers who are not subject to the cost of floor space
to have
all these series on hand in non-electronic form. If the Japanese
industry wants
to maintain its share of the American entertainment market then they had
better support the people who make obscure and less popular works available
for seriously interested people IMO. Tolerance for fan subbers is one
way to
do that though maybe integration of the translating subbers into the
industry
somehow as is done with the best doujin artists.
later
bliss -- (at california dot com for a while yet)
--
bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco
Ningen banji Human beings do
Samazama no Every single kind
Baka a suru Of stupid thing
--- 117th edition of Haifu Yanagidaru published in 1832
selaboc
Montana>
Sounds like Miley Cyrus needs to watch out, Debbie Gibson can tell her
why ;)
Antonio E. Gonzalez
wrote:
Is she of legal age yet? Yet another thing to charge Darky with!
Hell, Billy Ray would probably hunt him down (you don't mess with his
little girl!), no jury would convict him!
Justin
Why? Miley's got nothing on Debbie.
darkst...@gmail.com
I know where you're going with that -- the problem is that I never
took much to the corporation of Miley Cyrus.
Now, if you want to speak of a more general concept, then, bluntly, I
think your statement would be correct -- because the instant Cyrus
turns about 20, she becomes useless to the corporate process unless
they can get her naked.
And then, Miley better have some "good advice" from the likes of
Deborah -- but not because of any attack. Because of what happens
when the cheering stops.
Mike
darkst...@gmail.com
On Oct 11, 8:36 pm, Travers Naran <tna...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I read that when it showed up on Slashdot. And you got it... wrong.
>
> What I think the article said, and re-reading the conclusion again I
> still think it says, is "the one thing we know for certain is that we
> don't know for certain. And we're making policy on the basis of our
> ignorance."
As we've talked about before, it is my firm belief that the ONLY value
a product like an anime has is the value which is enforced upon the
public. _That_, IMODO, is the ignorance which I believe they are
talking about here.
If Intellectual Property (again, as a concept, far beyond simply anime
specifically) cannot be enforced, the "Property" is not theirs,
because it is essentially public domain, especially in the age of the
user-driven Internet. It, then, has no financial value at all, and
can only be used for other means, at best!
> Translation: compared with a world with perfect IP protection and this
> one, the difference in revenue lost is unknowable, and the net effect on
> GDP is even more unknowable. No one can provide credible numbers for or
> against IP infringement, and it is unknowable at this time.
Frankly, that needs to change, several years ago. That this has not
already happened will (in fact, already has) killed anime as a
saleable art form in America (the patient is brain-dead -- they're
trying to keep him "alive" through life support), because, short of
such a viable measure, there is no chance -- NONE! -- to declare IP
and copyright anything but legally unenforceable -- hence, null and
void.
> It sounds like you read into it what you wanted to believe. You wanted
> it to say: "piracy is not a problem", and that's what you got out of it.
Of course. Visions of the delusionals. If they believed half the
shit they posted, they'd have me locked up for eternity for stalking
everyone from Britney Spears to Raquel Welch and everyone in between
-- including most of the female anime voice talents.
(No joke.)
> But I do mostly agree with you. As I argued with Darkstar, just because
> someone downloaded an anime doesn't mean they would have paid money for
> it. And that's what is killing the anime market: the prices are too
> high for the market, and if you can't produce anime for a lower price,
> then maybe it's time to stop making anime.
ANY price is "too high for the ('fan') market". That's the first
problem. Without IP enforcement, it doesn't matter how much the anime
costs. It doesn't matter if you can cut costs to a third of what they
are now. Without some degree of massive IP enforcement, the value of
anime (as the animation itself) is zero. (Which, then, would make
_any_ price too high for the market.)
This almost _has to be_ true if you want to believe what you're saying
here -- because to imply the animation has a non-zero value would mean
(again) that you now have two copies of the animation (or at least
_had_ the second copy at a previous time) and owe the value for the
first copy you illegally acquired, even if you don't have it now and
regardless of the legality of the second acquisition.
Frankly, costs do have to be cut. That's one of the reasons I see
Bandai-Namco leaving R1 entirely once the TTGL dub finishes and the
like, and any future releases come straight from Japan, on Blu-Ray,
and (if this, and not straight J-raw) sub-only. But without some
degree of enforcement, it's too late. It's probably too late _now_.
Mike
darkst...@gmail.com
> What would be the commercial value of the last season of the anime Sailor
> Moon? I purchased all of the series that was commercially subtitled for
> the USA. The last season was never issued in the USA but is available as a
> fan sub. I want to see all 200 episodes.
>
> There are plenty of older anime that have never been sold in the USA. When
> an anime is "out of print", never issued or not available used it must not
> be worth much or else why would it not be available for sale?
The general answer is "zero", as I just got done asserting with
Travers. Especially when it's fansubbed like that, the animation
loses all real financial value, and might as well never be licensed,
released, or sold -- as it's money down the drain. Watch what happens
with Ouran, starting in two weeks.
The fact is (and this is why I question the over-saturation argument
as blame on the companies solely): You don't release anything that
you don't believe you can recover the costs of (that is, unless the
"package deal" licenses force you to release all the titles in the
package deal -- and, at that point, that's a significant additional
cost you have to consider before acquiring the title which forces the
package deal), and, if you believe you have the fanbase to support
it...
The problem is that the fanbase is almost exclusively people who don't
give two shits about anything not "free" (or, at the least, "cool").
If there were sufficient IP enforcement, there would be far fewer
fans, far fewer shows, far fewer studios, and probably what licensors
would exist would be one thing they are not now...
Mike (Viable.)
Justin
> On Oct 12, 11:03 am, selaboc <c64...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> <snip chicken littles ranting that for some odd reason includes Hanna
>> Montana>
>>
>> Sounds like Miley Cyrus needs to watch out, Debbie Gibson can tell her
>> why ;)
>
> I know where you're going with that -- the problem is that I never
> took much to the corporation of Miley Cyrus.
>
> Now, if you want to speak of a more general concept, then, bluntly, I
> think your statement would be correct -- because the instant Cyrus
> turns about 20, she becomes useless to the corporate process unless
> they can get her naked.
She's far from cute and has an annoying voice. I don't know WHY anyone
would want to see her naked.
darkst...@gmail.com
> She's far from cute and has an annoying voice. I don't know WHY anyone
> would want to see her naked.
Then why does she have a career?
Mike (That's a larger question than simply Ms. Cyrus/Montana...)
Justin
> On Oct 12, 4:43 pm, Justin <nos...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>> She's far from cute and has an annoying voice. I don't know WHY anyone
>> would want to see her naked.
>
> Then why does she have a career?
I have been trying to figure that out for a long time.
I guess because all the girls that watch her think they can be like her
because they're better looking?
Travers Naran
darkst...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Oct 12, 4:43 pm, Justin <nos...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
>> She's far from cute and has an annoying voice. I don't know WHY anyone
>> would want to see her naked.
>
> Then why does she have a career?
Because the execs told her she has one. This is typically what happens.
(Crowd of screaming pre-teen girls)
(One of them stops)
Teen #1: "Hang on... Why are we screaming for Miley Cyrus. I just
realised her music isn't that great."
Teen #2: "So why are you here?"
Teen #1: "Because you are."
Teen #2: "I'M only here because you are."
Teen #1: "I guess I thought you and all my friends were into her because
the TV told me so."
(Other teens stop)
Teen #2: "[Crap], you're right."
(They all walk away)
This happened to every single female teen singer from like ever to now.
Previously, TV wasn't involved, but there were similar "pimping"
strategies using magazines (Tiger Beat was virtually an arm of the
marketing industry, IMHO).
The one manufactured act[1] that seems to have developed an actual fan
base who likes their music is, lor' help us all, the Spice Girls.
[1] ABBA wasn't manufactured which is why people still like them.[2]
[2] I also liked Captain and T'Neal.[3][4]
[3] Stop staring me and go back to your Sailor Moon hentai doujinshi!
[4] Yes, I was born before 1980.
--
-----
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Because your views of what is cute and what is annoying are not
universal. This is why shows like Survivor actually make money; if
everyone's tastes were like mine, none of the "reality" shows would have
lasted two episodes.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Invid Fan
<pinkert...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> What would be the commercial value of the last season of the anime Sailor
> Moon? I purchased all of the series that was commercially subtitled for
> the USA. The last season was never issued in the USA but is available as a
> fan sub. I want to see all 200 episodes.
>
You buy the Japanese versions and find scripts :)
> There are plenty of older anime that have never been sold in the USA. When
> an anime is "out of print", never issued or not available used it must not
> be worth much or else why would it not be available for sale?
>
By that reasoning Star Wars and ET had no value for years, as Lucas and
Spielberg (sp) kept them off home video for quite some time.
--
Chris Mack *quote under construction*
'Invid Fan'
Derek Janssen
> darkst...@gmail.com wrote on [Sun, 12 Oct 2008 16:53:07 -0700 (PDT)]:
>
>>On Oct 12, 4:43 pm, Justin <nos...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>She's far from cute and has an annoying voice. I don't know WHY anyone
>>>would want to see her naked.
>>
>>Then why does she have a career?
>
> I have been trying to figure that out for a long time.
Oh, the Onion did a morning puff piece on that a while ago:
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/disney_lab_unveils_its_latest?utm_source=EMTF_Onion
Derek Janssen (well, THAT Darky Pop-Culture Red-Herring Non-Sequitir[TM]
got a bit more thread mileage than it should've... 0_0 )
eja...@verizon.net
darkst...@gmail.com
> darkstar7...@gmail.com wrote on [Sun, 12 Oct 2008 16:53:07 -0700 (PDT)]:
>
> > On Oct 12, 4:43 pm, Justin <nos...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
> >> She's far from cute and has an annoying voice. I don't know WHY anyone
> >> would want to see her naked.
>
> > Then why does she have a career?
>
> I have been trying to figure that out for a long time.
My point is that the only reason she probably ever _HAD_ a career is
because, _eventually_, people are going to want to see her naked in
Playboy and the like -- otherwise, Cyrus would've never been chosen as
The Next Big Thing.
> I guess because all the girls that watch her think they can be like her
> because they're better looking?
Again, I don't think it matters to TPTB that she's a Butterface...
(A Butterface means they think she's got a good body, but her face...)
Mike
darkst...@gmail.com
> > On Oct 12, 4:43 pm, Justin <nos...@insightbb.com> wrote:
>
> >> She's far from cute and has an annoying voice. I don't know WHY anyone
> >> would want to see her naked.
>
> > Then why does she have a career?
>
> Because the execs told her she has one. This is typically what happens.
For the reason I described and was inferred above -- that the execs
picture her naked and that no other draw really exists for many women
in American culture, as far as they are concerned.
FWIW, it's probably the only reason Gibson had a career either,
because the moment she believed she should be treated as a human
being, the ride was over.
> This happened to every single female teen singer from like ever to now.
> Previously, TV wasn't involved, but there were similar "pimping"
> strategies using magazines (Tiger Beat was virtually an arm of the
> marketing industry, IMHO).
Yep.
> The one manufactured act[1] that seems to have developed an actual fan
> base who likes their music is, lor' help us all, the Spice Girls.
Oh -- dear -- gawd.
> [1] ABBA wasn't manufactured which is why people still like them.[2]
Not that it wasn't put together as such, but it took off.
It's just like Tully Blanchard said about The Four Horsemen: "It
didn't come out of a booking office." They put the four guys
together, Arn Anderson got lucky and found an appropriate hook, and it
led the NWA to a lot of money in the mid-1980's.
> [2] I also liked Captain and T'Neal.[3][4]
They had the one decent song.
> [3] Stop staring me and go back to your Sailor Moon hentai doujinshi!
> [4] Yes, I was born before 1980.
So was I.
Mike
darkst...@gmail.com
<seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> Because your views of what is cute and what is annoying are not
> universal. This is why shows like Survivor actually make money; if
> everyone's tastes were like mine, none of the "reality" shows would have
> lasted two episodes.
The only reason those shows last any length of time at all is because
the shows openly break the law.
They are a "contest" with a "prize" which violates Federal Law by the
producers pre-selecting (or at least selecting-in-progress) the winner
of the show and rigging it (in whole or in part) to ensure the given
contestant wins.
Survivor would not have lasted one season had Mark Burnett not had it
in his heart to rewrite American Federal Law.
Mike (neither would've American Idol, which see the Simons, Fuller and
Cowell.)
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
> Justin wrote:
>
> > darkst...@gmail.com wrote on [Sun, 12 Oct 2008 16:53:07 -0700 (PDT)]:
> >
> > > On Oct 12, 4:43 pm, Justin <nos...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > > She's far from cute and has an annoying voice. I don't know WHY anyone
> > > > would want to see her naked.
> > >
> > > Then why does she have a career?
> >
> > I have been trying to figure that out for a long time.
>
> Oh, the Onion did a morning puff piece on that a while ago:
> http://www.theonion.com/content/video/disney_lab_unveils_its_latest?utm_source=EMTF_Onion
>
Haha, that could very much apply to the J-pop and seiyuu lab too!
(Don't tell me you don't notice. ^_^ )
Laters. =)
STan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ LostRune+sig [at] UofR [dot] net
| ( _| | http://www.uofr.net/~lostrune/
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___|__| |__|___| \ ___|
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
> On Oct 12, 6:40 pm, Justin <nos...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> > darkstar7...@gmail.com wrote on [Sun, 12 Oct 2008 16:53:07 -0700 (PDT)]:
> >
> > > On Oct 12, 4:43 pm, Justin <nos...@insightbb.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> She's far from cute and has an annoying voice. I don't know WHY anyone
> > >> would want to see her naked.
> >
> > > Then why does she have a career?
> >
> > I have been trying to figure that out for a long time.
>
> My point is that the only reason she probably ever _HAD_ a career is
> because, _eventually_, people are going to want to see her naked in
> Playboy and the like -- otherwise, Cyrus would've never been chosen as
> The Next Big Thing.
>
Reminds me of the Japanese showbiz rite of passage in "Perfect Blue."
>
> > I guess because all the girls that watch her think they can be like her
> > because they're better looking?
>
> Again, I don't think it matters to TPTB that she's a Butterface...
>
> (A Butterface means they think she's got a good body, but her face...)
>
It's the "girl next door" effect.
It's easier for young girls to relate and imagine themselves as her
when she's not impossibly attainable.
The Japanese idols go for the same effect too, save for the boobs.
Laters. =)
Stan
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
Don't forget Morning Menudo, er, Musume. ^_^
Captain Nerd
"S.t.A.n.L.e.E" <LostRu...@UofR.SlamSpam.net> wrote:
> Mon, 13 Oct 2008 1:44am-0000, Travers Naran <tna...@gmail.com>:
> >
> > The one manufactured act[1] that seems to have developed an actual fan base
> > who likes their music is, lor' help us all, the Spice Girls.
> >
>
> Don't forget Morning Menudo, er, Musume. ^_^
Thanks for ending my day on a mental note disturbing on so many
levels...
Cap.
(... I mean there's no *good* way of thinking about it...)
--
Since 1989, recycling old jokes, cliches, and bad puns, one Usenet
post at a time!
Operation: Nerdwatch http://www.nerdwatch.com
Only email with "TO_CAP" somewhere in the subject has a chance of being read
Travers Naran
>
> Don't forget Morning Menudo, er, Musume. ^_^
I like the story of how they were "formed":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_musume#History
Imagine taking the runner ups from American Idol and forming a group. X-D
Travers Naran
> In article <Pine.LNX.4.64.08...@uofr.net>,
> "S.t.A.n.L.e.E" <LostRu...@UofR.SlamSpam.net> wrote:
>
>> Mon, 13 Oct 2008 1:44am-0000, Travers Naran <tna...@gmail.com>:
>>> The one manufactured act[1] that seems to have developed an actual fan base
>>> who likes their music is, lor' help us all, the Spice Girls.
>>>
>> Don't forget Morning Menudo, er, Musume. ^_^
>
> Thanks for ending my day on a mental note disturbing on so many
> levels...
>
> Cap.
> (... I mean there's no *good* way of thinking about it...)
Remember the Menudo on ABC bumpers? :-)
Dave Watson
> S.t.A.n.L.e.E wrote:
>
> > Don't forget Morning Menudo, er, Musume. ^_^
>
> I like the story of how they were "formed":http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morning_musume#History
>
> Imagine taking the runner ups from American Idol and forming a group. X-D
Looks like I'll have to get into that entry sometime and add the info
about a certain Shiwasu no Okina adult manga which savagely parodies
the group. Managers who are literally demons, creepy male audiences
who gangbang the members at every public appearance, the lot. It's
not entirely consensual, and some of the girls are a bit too young for
my comfort, but I wish that this sort of thing could have existed for
the Spice Slags.
Watson
"Keep Music Evil."--Cathal Coughlan, The Fatima Mansions.