ADV, are they still around??
Inu-Yasha
ran out of money temporarily before Vol 6 became available (I got 1-4). Now
I find on Amazon.com anyway that Vol 5 is no longer available from the
manufacturer (ADV), and same said manufacturer has pulled back vol 6. While
lo and behold, in two box sets vol 1-3 and 4-6 are available in December
this year from Funimation. So what happemed to ADV?
Oh, and I'm back for better or worse, I signed on to the draconian
newshosting.com terms of use, cause I couldn't stand it with ou you
guys/gals to read.
Inu-Yasha
Feh!! ^_^
Travers Naran
> Question, I've been followinf Red Gardens English translation release, and
> ran out of money temporarily before Vol 6 became available (I got 1-4). Now
> I find on Amazon.com anyway that Vol 5 is no longer available from the
> manufacturer (ADV), and same said manufacturer has pulled back vol 6. While
> lo and behold, in two box sets vol 1-3 and 4-6 are available in December
> this year from Funimation. So what happemed to ADV?
Tell me you didn't just say that. :-)
(Hides from the Darkstar flame thread that will come)
--
-----
Travers Naran, tnaran at google's mail.com
"Welcome to RAAM. Hope you can take a beating..." -- E.L.L.
Inu-Yasha
"Travers Naran" <tna...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:zYRJk.2104$%%2.98@edtnps82...
> Inu-Yasha wrote:
>> Question, I've been followinf Red Gardens English translation release,
>> and ran out of money temporarily before Vol 6 became available (I got
>> 1-4). Now I find on Amazon.com anyway that Vol 5 is no longer available
>> from the manufacturer (ADV), and same said manufacturer has pulled back
>> vol 6. While lo and behold, in two box sets vol 1-3 and 4-6 are
>> available in December this year from Funimation. So what happemed to
>> ADV?
>
> Tell me you didn't just say that. :-)
>
> (Hides from the Darkstar flame thread that will come)
>
parts of his posts that were quoted, and he made some good points, just
seemed to far gone to wone side to convince many of the others that he was
anything but a ranter. Let's see if he rises to the occasion (like the
theme OP to GITS SAC), and makes some points. Is AVD dead, or did they
outsource their anime? Actually, I really did want to know if anything
happened to them.
Inu-Yasha
Feh!! ^_^
The Relic
> "Travers Naran" <tna...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:zYRJk.2104$%%2.98@edtnps82...
>> Inu-Yasha wrote:
>>> Question, I've been followinf Red Gardens English translation release,
>>> and ran out of money temporarily before Vol 6 became available (I got
>>> 1-4). Now I find on Amazon.com anyway that Vol 5 is no longer available
>>> from the manufacturer (ADV), and same said manufacturer has pulled back
>>> vol 6. While lo and behold, in two box sets vol 1-3 and 4-6 are
>>> available in December this year from Funimation. So what happemed to
>>> ADV?
>> Tell me you didn't just say that. :-)
>>
>> (Hides from the Darkstar flame thread that will come)
>>
> Oops, I forgot about that. I used to have him killfiled, but I read the
> parts of his posts that were quoted, and he made some good points, just
> seemed to far gone to wone side to convince many of the others that he was
> anything but a ranter. Let's see if he rises to the occasion (like the
> theme OP to GITS SAC), and makes some points. Is AVD dead, or did they
> outsource their anime? Actually, I really did want to know if anything
Here's a list of the titles ADV is supposed to release for December...
http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=26537
They all appear to be re-releases of some of their old titles
into collections, however.
Rob Kelk
wrote:
<snip>
>Here's a list of the titles ADV is supposed to release for December...
>
>http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=26537
>
>They all appear to be re-releases of some of their old titles
>into collections, however.
According to RightStuf's online catalog, they've got some new
live-action stuff in the pipeline as well.
Hmmmmm... repackaging anime titles they've already released while
releasing new live-action DVDs... Where have we seen that before?
(Speaking of AnimEigo, how long until my copy of "Yawara!" season 1
arrives, again?)
--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> e-mail: s/deadspam/gmail/
"I'm *not* a kid! Nyyyeaaah!" - Skuld (in "Oh My Goddess!" OAV #3)
"When I became a man, I put away childish things, including the fear
of childishness and the desire to be very grown-up." - C.S. Lewis
Paul Pietromonaco
news:48f7e1ab$0$13078$9a6e...@unlimited.newshosting.com...
> Now I find on Amazon.com anyway that Vol 5 is no longer available from the
> manufacturer (ADV), and same said manufacturer has pulled back vol 6.
Actually - RightStuf says they have volume 5 in stock and available.
Cheers,
Paul
darkst...@gmail.com
> Inu-Yasha wrote:
> > Question, I've been followinf Red Gardens English translation release, and
> > ran out of money temporarily before Vol 6 became available (I got 1-4). Now
> > I find on Amazon.com anyway that Vol 5 is no longer available from the
> > manufacturer (ADV), and same said manufacturer has pulled back vol 6. While
> > lo and behold, in two box sets vol 1-3 and 4-6 are available in December
> > this year from Funimation. So what happemed to ADV?
>
> Tell me you didn't just say that. :-)
I was almost expecting a *Booker T* tag on that. "Tell me you didn't
just say that..."
> (Hides from the Darkstar flame thread that will come)
Get in the bunker now...
To answer the original question: One good criminal investigation of
the last 2 1/2 years of Greenfield, Ledford, and Williams would end
ADV and open the eyes of a lot of people as to what has been necessary
to keep the business afloat in the face of rampant thievery.
Mike
darkst...@gmail.com
> Inu-Yasha wrote:
> > "Travers Naran" <tna...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:zYRJk.2104$%%2.98@edtnps82...
> >> Inu-Yasha wrote:
> >>> Question, I've been followinf Red Gardens English translation release,
> >>> and ran out of money temporarily before Vol 6 became available (I got
> >>> 1-4). Now I find on Amazon.com anyway that Vol 5 is no longer available
> >>> from the manufacturer (ADV), and same said manufacturer has pulled back
> >>> vol 6. While lo and behold, in two box sets vol 1-3 and 4-6 are
> >>> available in December this year from Funimation. So what happemed to
> >>> ADV?
> >> Tell me you didn't just say that. :-)
>
> >> (Hides from the Darkstar flame thread that will come)
>
> > Oops, I forgot about that. I used to have him killfiled, but I read the
> > parts of his posts that were quoted, and he made some good points, just
> > seemed to far gone to wone side to convince many of the others that he was
> > anything but a ranter. Let's see if he rises to the occasion (like the
> > theme OP to GITS SAC), and makes some points. Is AVD dead, or did they
> > outsource their anime? Actually, I really did want to know if anything
>
> Here's a list of the titles ADV is supposed to release for December...
>
> http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=26537
>
> They all appear to be re-releases of some of their old titles
> into collections, however.
They've been doing that, essentially, for a year now.
THEY -- HAVE -- NO -- PRESENT -- CATALOG.
They lost every bit of it with Sojitz. They *claim* to have dubbed
Kiba for Upper Deck, and they *claim* an OVA license, and (some
believe) they *claim* to have licensed Clannad.
ADV has been claiming new partners and new investors for the better
part of several months now, but no names.
--------------
What I think is really happening: Criminal cooking of the books, for
one. The numbers do not add up otherwise. And that's usually the
first red flag that something is going on. (Of course, frankly, any
honest bookkeeping of any American company, at this point, would
probably drive them bankrupt with the kinds of things our economy has
been full of the last 20 years or so.)
Two: They want to do this long enough so that the other main
companies collapse (and, if they get to 2009 1Q, they'll probably be
right!!!) and they can then re-pick up everything for essentially
nothing (because there will be no effective industry left, outside of
Viz and their Bleach and Naruto and Pokemon and stuff...) Remember,
deep in the bowels, there's been rumors that a lot of what ADV was
trying to do during the Sojitz years was gobble up the other
companies.
They are alive, but, really, in name only. It's clear their
reputation is in absolute tatters, they basically are little more than
recycling their deep catalog, and probably just waiting for the entire
house of cards to implode (an implosion they have helped cause through
various forms of misconduct vis-a-vis the fans).
Mike
Galen
wrote:
>On Thu, 16 Oct 2008 22:16:06 -0400, The Relic <reli...@ameritech.net>
>wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>>Here's a list of the titles ADV is supposed to release for December...
>>
>>http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=26537
>>
>>They all appear to be re-releases of some of their old titles
>>into collections, however.
>
>According to RightStuf's online catalog, they've got some new
>live-action stuff in the pipeline as well.
>
>Hmmmmm... repackaging anime titles they've already released while
>releasing new live-action DVDs... Where have we seen that before?
>(Speaking of AnimEigo, how long until my copy of "Yawara!" season 1
>arrives, again?)
Mine is shipping now, according to the e-mail.
-Galen
bobbie sellers
be sending another e-mail when it is shipped. And I have to
be out on Jury Duty next week it seems.
Watta pain!
later
bliss -- (formerly at california dot com)
--
bobbie sellers - a retired nurse in San Francisco
Ningen banji Human beings do
Samazama no Every single kind
Baka a suru Of stupid thing
--- 117th edition of Haifu Yanagidaru published in 1832
Bobby Clark
"The Relic" <reli...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:PzSJk.5595$Ws1....@nlpi064.nbdc.sbc.com...
> Inu-Yasha wrote:
>> "Travers Naran" <tna...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:zYRJk.2104$%%2.98@edtnps82...
>>> Inu-Yasha wrote:
>>>> Question, I've been followinf Red Gardens English translation release,
>>>> and ran out of money temporarily before Vol 6 became available (I got
>>>> 1-4). Now I find on Amazon.com anyway that Vol 5 is no longer
>>>> available from the manufacturer (ADV), and same said manufacturer has
>>>> pulled back vol 6. While lo and behold, in two box sets vol 1-3 and
>>>> 4-6 are available in December this year from Funimation. So what
>>>> happemed to ADV?
>>> Tell me you didn't just say that. :-)
>>>
>>> (Hides from the Darkstar flame thread that will come)
>>>
>> Oops, I forgot about that. I used to have him killfiled, but I read the
>> parts of his posts that were quoted, and he made some good points, just
>> seemed to far gone to wone side to convince many of the others that he
>> was anything but a ranter. Let's see if he rises to the occasion (like
>> the theme OP to GITS SAC), and makes some points. Is AVD dead, or did
>> they outsource their anime? Actually, I really did want to know if
>> anything
>
>
> Here's a list of the titles ADV is supposed to release for December...
>
> http://news.toonzone.net/article.php?ID=26537
>
> They all appear to be re-releases of some of their old titles
> into collections, however.
I have wanted Nanaka 6/17 and Area 88 for a while now. I wonder if any of
the older titles will get another chance. ADV had restructured in the past.
I am glad they are coming back. They took it on the chin this time with the
collapse of NewType USA and the series that were stopped mid release. I
hope they do a better job this time around.
Bobby
Inu-Yasha
"Paul Pietromonaco" <ppie...@spamgo.com> wrote in message
news:48f82884$0$89872$815e...@news.qwest.net...
for Vol 5, & $22+ for Vol 6 I'll buy the box set 4-6 when it comes out.
That's just too much for individual eps., when a 3 ep boxset is $40.
Inu-Yasha
Feh!! ^_^
>
Herbie Garcia
Yes ADV is STILL Alive & Kicking announcing realeases from their
Library.
Next Month:
Guy Double Target (Adult) On the Happy Carrot Label.
BGC-2040 Set
(DVDs will be from the EA Collection has interviews with the cast &
other extras)
Chrono Crusade Set Holiday Edition
(Extras will be incuded in the set)
NGE Holiday Edition set
Comming In December:
Nanaka 6/17 set
Ushio & Tora set
Nurse Witch Komugi set
Princess Minerva
(Source: Anime on DVD Forums & TRSI)
Heres the real kicker comming from ICV2.
ADV has partnered up with Sentai Filmworks to distribute Anime realeases
for 2009. CLANNAD leads the list.
Vol.1 Due out April 21ST,2009
Indian Summer OAV: March 10TH. 2009
Based on the Manga by Takehito Mizuki
3 Former Geneon Titles will be rerealeased by ADV/Sentai.
Mahoromatic set: January 13TH 2009
$44.98
Second series set will follow on February 17TH.
(Same Price)
Lunar Legend Tsukihime Set-January 20TH
(Ditto)
Also a former Media Blasters Title is getting a rerealease in Jewl Bem
Hunter Lime.
(No Date yet)
And Pet Shop Of Horrors once put out By Urban Vision Entertainment will
be getting a rerealease as well.
(No Date yet)
Heres the link
www.icv2.com/articles/news/13554.html
Enjoy!
HG-The Otakuman
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> Howdy folks!
>
> Yes ADV is STILL Alive & Kicking announcing realeases from their
> Library.
And we'll be seeing a foaming-mouthed rant by Dorkstar in 5... 4...
3... 2... 1...
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Travers Naran
> Herbie Garcia wrote:
>> Howdy folks!
>>
>> Yes ADV is STILL Alive & Kicking announcing realeases from their
>> Library.
>
> And we'll be seeing a foaming-mouthed rant by Dorkstar in 5... 4...
> 3... 2... 1...
Lemme prime the pump...
Ledford's interview is pretty interesting:
<http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/13545.html>
<http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/13546.html>
Especially when asked about business questions. Some choice qotes:
"Q: Pulling back a bit, how is ADV doing as a company (it’s obviously
been a tough year, and a lot of people are wondering if you’re going to
survive going forward)?
A:Well I can certainly understand their curiosity. It’s been a tough
time, no doubt. Everyone’s been working extremely hard to get our
business refocused, and we’re already seeing positive results."
---
"Has ADV been able to attract any new capital since the breakup with Sojitz?
In the short term, the breakup with Sojitz forced us to reinvent our
business. We’ve reached out to new partners and focused on our core
strengths, localization and distribution. Our arrangement with Sentai
Filmworks is an example of this. There are others we’ll be announcing
in the weeks to come. It hasn’t been easy, but we’ve reached an
equilibrium that works and is sustainable.
There are a lot of stakeholders out there rooting for ADV, both here and
in Japan. They realize that you need more than one or two distributors
to maintain a healthy market, where the full range of anime gets its
shot at retail. That’s brought some very creative thinking from the
business side, some new kinds of licensing arrangements. I think
eventually it will become necessary for ADV to scale back up. When that
happens, the capital will be there."
[TN: I was wondering about this. I wasn't sure how Japan's industry
would react to a monopoly in R1. Sometimes Japanese companies like
monopolies. Other times, they do not. It's interesting to see that the
industry does not want to see Funimation rule R1 anime]
--
"The problem is that the money generated by legitimate anime streaming
and download doesn’t come anywhere close to replacing lost DVD sales.
That’s true for pretty much everyone in entertainment, but it’s
particularly true for anime."
[TN: My advice -- get use to it. The value that new audience places on
anime is very low (i.e., they don't want to pay that much or at all)]
--
"Viewership is larger than ever, thanks to the Internet, but fans just
aren’t buying DVDs like they used to. And when the costs stay the same,
you’ve got a lot of solid, quality productions that end up running in
the red.
That’s why right now the best business to be in are the hits and the
‘super-niche’ titles. Anything in between can kill you."
[TN: That is interesting...]
---
"A lot of people are thinking very creatively right now on both sides of
the Pacific about how we can change the business to put it on a more
sustainable footing. But third party entities like Sentai Filmworks or
Switchblade Pictures aren’t new to the scene. Neither is contracting a
partner for distribution or other services. These days it’s not unusual
to see a Japanese producer bypass the traditional licensing process to
contract its own US localization and distribution partners a la carte."
[TN: Someone listened to my suggestion. The industry, especially on the
Japanese side, needed to adapt to this new market reality.]
---
"You mentioned that there’s more purchasing of services a la carte.
...
One might say that it’s a little bit of both. Second Raid was one of
Kadokawa Pictures USA’s first licenses. As the name suggests, they’re a
US subsidiary of a Japanese company. It made a lot of sense for them to
use Amusement Park Media for the dub, because ADV had already handled
the original Full Metal Panic as well as the spinoff Full Metal Panic:
FUMOFFU? We could bring continuity to the English dub quickly and
inexpensively. For packaging and distribution they went with Funimation
in a completely separate transaction. You’d have to talk to them about
how that worked out."
[TN: I figured ADV could survive doing piece work, but I also wondered
about the Japanese companies coming into R1 directly. This makes sense
really: come in and hire local companies to do specific functions. The
Japanese company takes more of the risks, while the North American
companies can have a guaranteed cash flow.]
---
"As long as we make it easy and convenient, people will pay for anime.
Not just core fans either, but casual fans who might have left the
hobby. Anime Network On Demand is a real success for that reason."
"In a year’s time you should see ADV working with more outside partners
like Sentai and Switchblade, providing the same sort of localization and
distribution services to a broader array of clients. In particular I
think Amusement Park Media, our independent production company, will
continue to diversify its business beyond anime or even filmed
entertainment. There are some exciting opportunities taking shape that
should keep our actors and contract employees busy for years to come,
and I hope to talk about some of that with you soon."
selaboc
> Howdy folks!
>
> Yes ADV is STILL Alive & Kicking
How can that be. According to Chicken Little they are dead dead dead
S.t.A.n.L.e.E
>
> "In a year’s time you should see ADV working with more outside partners like
> Sentai and Switchblade, providing the same sort of localization and
> distribution services to a broader array of clients. In particular I think
> Amusement Park Media, our independent production company, will continue to
> diversify its business beyond anime or even filmed entertainment. There are
> some exciting opportunities taking shape that should keep our actors and
> contract employees busy for years to come, and I hope to talk about some of
> that with you soon."
>
Probably including games, as more and more games use VAs now,
and Japanese games increasingly brought over.
Laters. =)
Stan
--
_______ ________ _______ ____ ___ ___ ______ ______
| __|__ __| _ | \ | | | | _____| _____|
|__ | | | | _ | |\ | |___| ____|| ____|
|_______| |__| |__| |__|___| \ ___|_______|______|______|
__| | ( )
/ _ | |/ LostRune+sig [at] UofR [dot] net
| ( _| | http://www.uofr.net/~lostrune/
\ ______| _______ ____ ___
/ \ / \ | _ | \ | |
/ \/ \| _ | |\ |
/___/\/\___|__| |__|___| \ ___|
Derek Janssen
> Herbie Garcia wrote:
>
>> Howdy folks!
>>
>> Yes ADV is STILL Alive & Kicking announcing realeases from their
>> Library.
>
>
>
> And we'll be seeing a foaming-mouthed rant by Dorkstar in 5... 4...
> 3... 2... 1...
No, he'll be reduced to "What, is this *all* they could release?
Well...like...it's isn't very GOOD!"
Derek Janssen (and then throw in a Sarah Palin joke)
eja...@verizon.net
darkst...@gmail.com
> Howdy folks!
>
> Yes ADV is STILL Alive & Kicking announcing realeases from their
> Library.
(Same shit, different asshole... No, not you -- more referring to the
people trying to con people into believing...)
> Heres the real kicker comming from ICV2.
>
> ADV has partnered up with Sentai Filmworks to distribute Anime realeases
> for 2009. CLANNAD leads the list.
And I now have a place to send the "You stupid dumb-fucks... Do you
realize how bad you just got conned out of your money?" letter I've
been dying to write.
> Vol.1 Due out April 21ST,2009
>
> Indian Summer OAV: March 10TH. 2009
> Based on the Manga by Takehito Mizuki
Too bad there won't be any real place to market them. Kinda hard to
send stuff to a market which won't exist. What, they going to get
into the Wal-Mart stuff too??
> 3 Former Geneon Titles will be rerealeased by ADV/Sentai.
Free advice for Sentai: Wipe the ADV name off your label and take
over. Get Greenfield, Ledford, Williams, and all the old guard out
before they take you with them to corporate bankruptcy.
Mike
Inu-Yasha
Anyone know if there are college courses in this babble speak? Management
in the huge company that bought out the large company that bought out the
small compamy I work fore sound just like this...wait...so do all the
talking heads and Treasury/Federal Reserve gummint leaders, so it's got to
be a requisite for an MBA right??
I got to admit, I barely understand what they are saying, something I guess
about legitimizing their illiquidity I think. *___*;
Inu-Yasha
Feh!! ^_^
Drink that illiquidity you villain!
Inu-Yasha
"Derek Janssen" <eja...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:Gn4Lk.2447$Rx2....@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
Ah!! like: How can it be a bridge to no-where, I live at the end of it.
Derek Janssen
> "Travers Naran" <tna...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:JK1Lk.2657$fF3.1794@edtnps83...
>
>>Sojitz?
>>
>>In the short term, the breakup with Sojitz forced us to reinvent our
>>business. We’ve reached out to new partners and focused on our core
>>strengths, localization and distribution. Our arrangement with Sentai
>>Filmworks is an example of this. There are others we’ll be announcing in
>>the weeks to come. It hasn’t been easy, but we’ve reached an equilibrium
>>that works and is sustainable.
>>
>>There are a lot of stakeholders out there rooting for ADV, both here and
>>in Japan. They realize that you need more than one or two distributors to
>>maintain a healthy market, where the full range of anime gets its shot at
>>retail. That’s brought some very creative thinking from the business
>>side, some new kinds of licensing arrangements. I think eventually it
>>will become necessary for ADV to scale back up. When that happens, the
>>capital will be there."
>
> Anyone know if there are college courses in this babble speak? Management
> in the huge company that bought out the large company that bought out the
> small compamy I work fore sound just like this...wait...so do all the
> talking heads and Treasury/Federal Reserve gummint leaders, so it's got to
> be a requisite for an MBA right??
>
> I got to admit, I barely understand what they are saying, something I guess
> about legitimizing their illiquidity I think. *___*;
>
As TN notes, viz:
>>[TN: I was wondering about this. I wasn't sure how Japan's industry would
>>react to a monopoly in R1. Sometimes Japanese companies like monopolies.
>>Other times, they do not. It's interesting to see that the industry does
>>not want to see Funimation rule R1 anime]
it's saying that both old and new ADV investors don't particularly
*want* Funi to be responsible for All Anime (nor, as Darky fantasizes,
do they want to roll over, play dead and let F.U.N.I. Evil World
Conquest Headquarters fire their anti-anime laser from their secret moon
headquarters...<bite finger> They call it their "Death Star")--
And taking the "new management" approach that it's better to have a
variety of big and small companies releasing anime...And that if small
companies without Sojitz can only afford to release small boxset anime
or old 80's/90's expired-salvage titles from the mom-&-pop days (qv.
Pet Shop of Horrors), it's redefined WHAT titles companies set out to
get, and what co-negotiated niche divisions release them--
Thus steering shaky companies away from the "NBA Pro draft" overbidding
for new series sight-unseen, which caused most of the trouble to begin
with, and bringing them closer back to judging old/obscure titles on
their sellable fan value.
Derek Janssen
eja...@verizon.net
Astrobiochemist
>
> Yes ADV is STILL Alive & Kicking announcing realeases from their
> Library.
>
> Next Month:
>
> (Extras will be incuded in the set)
>
> NGE Holiday Edition set
Holiday editions? What makes it a holiday edition? And another
boxset of Evangelion? The 10th Anniversary Boxset never even came
out!
I guess I can understand ADV's reasoning. I remember reading in an
interview about ADV's Farscape DVDs that the reason why they kept
rereleasing Farscape in a new collection so often (Original Disks,
Season Sets, Best of Season Sets and then the Starburst Editions) was
that making a new set was the only way to get the disks on Walmart
shelves, since Walmart didn't stock reprints of older disks, only new
disks would be on the shelves, even if it was simply a repackaging of
older material.
I wonder if this is the Evangelion boxset I'll finally pick up after
all these years? (Probably not.)
DBBrandell
>> Howdy folks!
>>
>> Yes ADV is STILL Alive & Kicking announcing realeases from their
>> Library.
>>
>> Next Month:
>>
>> Chrono Crusade Set Holiday Edition
>> (Extras will be incuded in the set)
>>
>> NGE Holiday Edition set
>
> Holiday editions? What makes it a holiday edition? And another
> boxset of Evangelion? The 10th Anniversary Boxset never even came
> out!
>
> I guess I can understand ADV's reasoning. I remember reading in an
> interview about ADV's Farscape DVDs that the reason why they kept
> rereleasing Farscape in a new collection so often (Original Disks,
> Season Sets, Best of Season Sets and then the Starburst Editions) was
> that making a new set was the only way to get the disks on Walmart
> shelves, since Walmart didn't stock reprints of older disks, only new
> disks would be on the shelves, even if it was simply a repackaging of
> older material.
Yeah, marvels of modern marketing.
That, and it's a little like the old Disney tactic of bringing movies
back out every 7 years, 'cause there's a new batch of kids that haven't
seen it. This is a lot less than seven years (!), but there's such a
whirlwind of video out there that every little bit helps keep things in
the public eye. Like new and improved tootpaste. :)
> I wonder if this is the Evangelion boxset I'll finally pick up after
> all these years? (Probably not.)
Me neither. I did like the show, but not enough to get it.
DBB
Galen
wrote:
And now in my hands, episodes 1-40 across 6 DVDs.
Must go to work now.
-Galen
bobbie sellers
errands this morning. Lots of pages of advrts. for samurai &
ninja movies and a few anime and a lovely little box of thin paks.
Soon as I finish catching up on the e-comms I will start
watching.
later
Bobbie aka bliss at sfo dot com
darkst...@gmail.com
> Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor) wrote:
>
> > Herbie Garcia wrote:
>
> >> Howdy folks!
>
> >> Yes ADV is STILL Alive & Kicking announcing realeases from their
> >> Library.
>
> > And we'll be seeing a foaming-mouthed rant by Dorkstar in 5... 4...
> > 3... 2... 1...
>
> No, he'll be reduced to "What, is this *all* they could release?
The fact that that is all they could release should tell you
something.
> Derek Janssen (and then throw in a Sarah Palin joke)
She is her own joke -- why would I have to add to it?
Mike
Aya the Vampire Slayer
>Like new and improved tootpaste. :)
What an awesome typo.
--
"Care must be exorcised when handring Opiticar System as it is apts to
be sticked by dusts and hand-fat." --Japanese Translators
"Keep your fingers off the lens." --Elton Byington, English Translator
DBBrandell
> DBBrandell <NoSuc...@nosuchaccount.net> wa:
>> Like new and improved tootpaste. :)
>
> What an awesome typo.
>
Well, it could be glue for trumpets. :)
Anyway, my bad. I apologize.
DBB
darkst...@gmail.com
reposting of some of Ledford's "answers"):
-- Crooked bookkeeping
-- Abject incompetence vis-a-vis the "market"
-- Corporate obfuscation (it sounds like the "new investor" actually
works out of Ledford's condominium!!)
-- An arrogance that they can actually gain capital once ADV is ready
to re-increase (sounds to me like either the rest of the world economy
would like to know how ADV is going to do that, or that ADV intends to
"keep its head down" long enough for Bandai-Namco to leave R1 and
Navarre to collapse -- both of which I give about Q1 of 2009.)
Basically, there certainly needs to be some degree of investigation as
to what's going on, especially with Ledford, and what he might have up
his sleeve. This is the same company which proposed "black ops"
during the Sojitz timeframe to take over other anime companies.
It's clear that ADV is expecting Funimation (more expecting their
parent Navarre) to fail. What they're doing to stay in the game until
that happens is a real question...
Mike
selaboc
> > Howdy folks!
>
> > Yes ADV is STILL Alive & Kicking announcing realeases from their
> > Library.
>
> > Next Month:
>
> > Chrono Crusade Set Holiday Edition
> > (Extras will be incuded in the set)
>
> > NGE Holiday Edition set
>
> Holiday editions? What makes it a holiday edition? And another
> boxset of Evangelion? The 10th Anniversary Boxset never even came
> out!
>
> I guess I can understand ADV's reasoning. I remember reading in an
> interview about ADV's Farscape DVDs that the reason why they kept
> rereleasing Farscape in a new collection so often (Original Disks,
> Season Sets, Best of Season Sets and then the Starburst Editions) was
> that making a new set was the only way to get the disks on Walmart
> shelves, since Walmart didn't stock reprints of older disks, only new
> disks would be on the shelves, even if it was simply a repackaging of
> older material.
It's not just a Walmart thing, though. Even stores like Best Buy are
more likely to stock a "new" set of old stuff than the "old" set of
the same stuff.
selaboc
> What happened sounds like (I had a nice, long reply to Travers and his
> reposting of some of Ledford's "answers"):
>
> -- Crooked bookkeeping
> -- Abject incompetence vis-a-vis the "market"
> -- Corporate obfuscation (it sounds like the "new investor" actually
> works out of Ledford's condominium!!)
> -- An arrogance that they can actually gain capital once ADV is ready
> to re-increase (sounds to me like either the rest of the world economy
> would like to know how ADV is going to do that, or that ADV intends to
> "keep its head down" long enough for Bandai-Namco to leave R1 and
> Navarre to collapse -- both of which I give about Q1 of 2009.)
>
> Basically, there certainly needs to be some degree of investigation as
> to what's going on, especially with Ledford, and what he might have up
> his sleeve. This is the same company which proposed "black ops"
> during the Sojitz timeframe to take over other anime companies.
I said it before and I say it again: if you really believe all that
"crooked bookkeeping" crap you spew, call the feds and get that
investigation started. There are laws against that kind of thing, and
if you honestly believe that is what is going on, it is you duty to
call it in. go on, be a man, call it in and see what happens :)
darkst...@gmail.com
I know the present Federal government.
They are so pro-corporate that they would just cover it up, like they
do for everyone else.
If I felt that it could get listened to in any degree, believe me,
they'd be under a Federal investigation for fraud so fast, it wouldn't
even be funny.
The thing is: You can say that safely, knowing that the government
will never investigate a corporation against an individual's complaint
in this environment.
Trust me: Ledford, Williams, and Greenfield should be damned lucky if
they aren't perp walking for someone someday.
Mike
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> On Oct 22, 8:54 am, darkstar7...@gmail.com wrote:
>> What happened sounds like (I had a nice, long reply to Travers and his
>> reposting of some of Ledford's "answers"):
>>
>> -- Crooked bookkeeping
>> -- Abject incompetence vis-a-vis the "market"
>> -- Corporate obfuscation (it sounds like the "new investor" actually
>> works out of Ledford's condominium!!)
>> -- An arrogance that they can actually gain capital once ADV is ready
>> to re-increase (sounds to me like either the rest of the world economy
>> would like to know how ADV is going to do that, or that ADV intends to
>> "keep its head down" long enough for Bandai-Namco to leave R1 and
>> Navarre to collapse -- both of which I give about Q1 of 2009.)
>>
>> Basically, there certainly needs to be some degree of investigation as
>> to what's going on, especially with Ledford, and what he might have up
>> his sleeve. This is the same company which proposed "black ops"
>> during the Sojitz timeframe to take over other anime companies.
>
> I said it before and I say it again: if you really believe all that
> "crooked bookkeeping" crap you spew, call the feds and get that
> investigation started.
He won't. He doesn't really want to do anything about it, he just wants
to shout gloom and doom, talk about how terrible things are, and say
what he WOULD do if he could do anything, but he actually WON'T do
anything. This has been his pattern all along.
selaboc
> > I said it before and I say it again: if you really believe all that
> > "crooked bookkeeping" crap you spew, call the feds and get that
> > investigation started. There are laws against that kind of thing, and
> > if you honestly believe that is what is going on, it is you duty to
> > call it in. go on, be a man, call it in and see what happens :)
>
> I know the present Federal government.
>
> They are so pro-corporate that they would just cover it up, like they
> do for everyone else.
>
> If I felt that it could get listened to in any degree, believe me,
> they'd be under a Federal investigation for fraud so fast, it wouldn't
> even be funny.
Do the names Eron and WorldCom ring any bells? A quick google will
find you many cases of the people and companies getting investigated
and found guilty of fraud here's just a couple of samples:
http://www.cfo.com/article.cfm/12236505?f=cfoinside
"September 16, 2008
Two former top executives of the American Italian Pasta Company plead
guilty to criminal charges for conspiracy to fraudulently overstate
earnings and deceive investors
...
Separately, two executives, including one of the two who pleaded
guilty in criminal court, agreed to settle civil accounting fraud
charges brought by the Securities and Exchange Commission. The SEC
also charged the company and one other executive"
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117490215.html?categoryid=15&cs=1
"Former Broadway impresario and Livent co-founder Garth Drabinsky was
indicted Wednesday by a Manhattan federal court on 16 counts of
conspiracy and securities fraud relating to a "massive" and "brazen"
scheme to conceal "tens of millions of dollars" of losses at the now-
bankrupt theater concern, authorities said."
> The thing is: You can say that safely, knowing that the government
> will never investigate a corporation against an individual's complaint
> in this environment.
No, I can safely say it because you got nothing. Nada. Zero. Zip. You
just keep fapping away on the net because that's all you can do. If
you had something more than your wild imagination you'd go to the feds
rather than rec.arts.anime.misc but you don't and you know it and you
know that if you did go to the Feds they'd laugh in your face because
you have nothing.
selaboc
I agree. The only time he does anything more than talking is when he's
stalking washed up pop stars.
Travers Naran
> "crooked bookkeeping" crap you spew, call the feds and get that
> investigation started. There are laws against that kind of thing, and
> if you honestly believe that is what is going on, it is you duty to
> call it in. go on, be a man, call it in and see what happens :)
He can't. Such charges can only be brought against a privately-held
company by the owners of said company or by its investors or
creditors. Because ADV is privately held, it cannot be prosecuted by
the SEC. If ADV was publicly traded, one could in theory drop a dime
on them. It's been known to happen.
But in this case, the majority shareholder is Ledford. Only his co-
investors can press charges, and it looks like they can't be
bothered. I don't believe there is any criminal activity going on,
but Ledford is running the company of fumes and dreams and convincing
others to give him money.
That isn't a crime, and it sounds like the industry so desperately
wants to avoid a Funimation-run R1 industry that they'll keep throwing
money at ADV to prevent that.[1]
[1] In other industries this has happened. Most recently, Microsoft
kept throwing money into SCO in order to keep their bogus lawsuit
against Linux running. Eventually, SCO lost big time, but they had
done their job. That situation also had people outside wondering if
there was criminal action.
selaboc
> On Oct 22, 6:01 am, selaboc <c64...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I said it before and I say it again: if you really believe all that
> > "crooked bookkeeping" crap you spew, call the feds and get that
> > investigation started. There are laws against that kind of thing, and
> > if you honestly believe that is what is going on, it is you duty to
> > call it in. go on, be a man, call it in and see what happens :)
>
> He can't. Such charges can only be brought against a privately-held
> company by the owners of said company or by its investors or
> creditors. Because ADV is privately held, it cannot be prosecuted by
> the SEC. If ADV was publicly traded, one could in theory drop a dime
> on them. It's been known to happen.
There's a reason I said "Fed" and not "SEC" specifically. The kind
book cooking fraud he alleges can result in Tax-fraud, which would be
an IRS matter. And even, if it's sec related fraud he could take what
he "knows" to the investors and creditors, who would then go to the
SEC. So yes, he could *if* he had something. But since he doesn't you
are correct when you said "He can't" but not because of the reasons
you list.
Derek Janssen
> On Oct 22, 8:54 am, darkstar7...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>What happened sounds like (I had a nice, long reply to Travers and his
>>reposting of some of Ledford's "answers"):
>>
>>-- Crooked bookkeeping
>>-- Abject incompetence vis-a-vis the "market"
>>-- Corporate obfuscation (it sounds like the "new investor" actually
>>works out of Ledford's condominium!!)
>>-- An arrogance that they can actually gain capital once ADV is ready
>>to re-increase (sounds to me like either the rest of the world economy
>>would like to know how ADV is going to do that, or that ADV intends to
>>"keep its head down" long enough for Bandai-Namco to leave R1 and
>>Navarre to collapse -- both of which I give about Q1 of 2009.)
>
> I said it before and I say it again: if you really believe all that
> "crooked bookkeeping" crap you spew, call the feds and get that
> investigation started.
IOW, they await your forthcoming lawsuit. ;)
Derek Janssen
eja...@verizon.net
selaboc
Indeed. I'll have to remember that one :)
Travers Naran
He can't go to any of them because he's merely an outsider and would
not be given much credence. The IRS only cares about tax fraud. Any
larceny or embezzlement or outright fraud is an FBI matter, and
requires the owners or creditors to press charges.
But even if ADV had tax issues, Darkstar would not be in a position to
provide enough information to make it worth the IRS's time:
http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=106778,00.html
Basically, only an insider can do it. Outsiders can only offer
informed speculation and opinions, and I believe that is Darkstar's
right. I don't think he's off base for thinking there has to be
"funny business" for ADV to be surviving. As I mentioned, the SCO vs.
IBM case had a lot of people suspecting stock fraud on SCO's part and
they posted such opinions in public forums without reporting it to the
Feds. And I find your implied opinion that he has no right to go
around bashing the company in public a little childish and out of
order for USENET, or any public forum.
I can understand that you see Darkstar as a mentally unstable
individual and that by calling him out on his accusations to report
them, you think that would shut him up. Except that Darkstar isn't
really mentally unstable[1] -- he's just very angry and very
pessimistic by nature. Big difference.
In this case, he's doing what a lot of people do: offer an opinion.
You may not like his opinion, but telling him to shut up because his
opinions irritate you is small-minded.
[1] In this forum on these topics. I don't know Mike well enough to
know if he is really unstable or not in real life :-). But
considering ELL probably *is* mentally unstable and he was accepted in
this group, I don't see why we shouldn't accept Darkstar. :-)
selaboc
> I can understand that you see Darkstar as a mentally unstable
> individual and that by calling him out on his accusations to report
> them, you think that would shut him up. Except that Darkstar isn't
> really mentally unstable[1] -- he's just very angry and very
> pessimistic by nature. Big difference.
Except that he *IS*. Stalking someone (as he's admitted to having done
with Debbie Gibson) is something only the instabile do. Insisting in
the face of all evidence to the contrary that his opinion is *FACT* is
a sign of instability. He's entitled to his opinion, but he doesn't
think it is opinion, he isists it is fact. Since he's so sure it's
fact and that those facts are a criminal endevour than it's his duty
to act on those facts by taking it to the investors and creditors, the
feds, the press, and anyone else in a position to act on those facts.
That he CAN NOT, speaks volumes no matter how much you may wish to
indulge his fantasies.
> In this case, he's doing what a lot of people do: offer an opinion.
> You may not like his opinion, but telling him to shut up because his
> opinions irritate you is small-minded.
No, he doesn't offer an opinion. People who offer opinions generally
listen to counter opinions and facts and adjust their opinions when
the facts show their opinions to be off-base. He doesn't listen to
anything but that which agrees with his fantasy based overinflated
ego. Big difference.
selaboc
> He can't go to any of them because he's merely an outsider and would
> not be given much credence. The IRS only cares about tax fraud. Any
> larceny or embezzlement or outright fraud is an FBI matter, and
> requires the owners or creditors to press charges.
He most certain can go to them (particularily the creditors and
investors). If he has the case he *thinks* he has, they would listen.
There isn't a creditor or investor in the world who, when given proof
positive they are being defraud won't do something about it
*regardless* of who brings them that proof. He won't be given *any*
credence for one reason and one reason only, he has BUPKIS.
> And I find your implied opinion that he has no right to go
> around bashing the company in public a little childish and out of
> order for USENET, or any public forum.
And I find your defense of the little troll by resorting to insults
more than a little childish, however, alas, it is right in order for
USENET.
Derek Janssen
Travers obviously has some backgrounded complaint of his own against ADV
and other industry troubles, and projects too much personal
benefit-of-the-doubt onto Darky's Wounded-Net-k00k[TM] posts, believing
that The Enemy of His Enemy Is His Friend, if it gets otherwise serious
discussion started.
(Instead of the enemy of his enemy being a geeky delusional loser who's
struggling not to lose his attention meal-ticket.)
Naturally, we'll not hear TN saying a word against his "brave persecuted
maverick", and saying that at least he's keeping the trains running on
time... ;)
Derek Janssen
eja...@verizon.net
selaboc
> I don't think he's off base for thinking there has to be
> "funny business" for ADV to be surviving.
While anything is possible, baseless speculation does not equal fact,
and that is all anyone who claims there is "funny business" has been
able to offer: baseless speculation.
Rather than thinking "something funny is going on" because chicken
littles predictions of doom and gloom didn't come to pass, it's more
likely the case that ADV finally made some smart business decisions in
order to stay afloat through difficult times:
- ADV kept product in release. When they lost the licenses to the
soljitz releases earlier in the year, they switched to a slate of back
catalog releases which helped keep cash flowing into the company.
- They cut back on staff, reducing expenses.
- They eliminated unprofitable (or not profitable enough in relation
to cost needed to run) endevours - again reducing expenses and freeing
up capital.
- They sold off excess equipment that was no longer being utilized.
- They seeked out new partners and restructured how they did business.
There's nothing funny about any of that, and no surprises that they
managed to survive.
Travers Naran
>
> Travers obviously has some backgrounded complaint of his own against ADV
> and other industry troubles
I dunno if it's a complaint. More of an informed opinion that ADV is
badly run and that the industry was a bubble waiting to deflate. I
figured it would be a slow deflate instead of a "pop".
> and projects too much personal
> benefit-of-the-doubt onto Darky's Wounded-Net-k00k[TM] posts, believing
> that The Enemy of His Enemy Is His Friend, if it gets otherwise serious
> discussion started.
> (Instead of the enemy of his enemy being a geeky delusional loser who's
> struggling not to lose his attention meal-ticket.)
But if the enemy of my enemy is my friend's enemy which means that my
enemy is my friend? I'm so confused. :-P
I was a regular on rec.arts.sf.tv and several other groups that
attracted delusional losers. Trust me: Darky is not that bad. There
are far, FAR worse people out there. For example, I thought ELL was
far worse than Darkstar.
You want an example of an obsessive fan who gets far too upset/
involved in their hobby? There was lady on the SeaQuest DSV newsgroup
who became famous even over in rec.arts.sf.tv. The producer of the
last season of SeaQuest then memorialized her in a novel he later
wrote about his experience with fandom.
> Naturally, we'll not hear TN saying a word against his "brave persecuted
> maverick",
As we say here in Wasilla, he's good people and part of Real
America(TM). :-)
> and saying that at least he's keeping the trains running on
> time... ;)
Silly, boy! The ELVES keep the trains running on time! ;-)
Derek Janssen
> On Oct 22, 11:56 am, Derek Janssen <ejan...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Travers obviously has some backgrounded complaint of his own against ADV
>>benefit-of-the-doubt onto Darky's Wounded-Net-k00k[TM] posts, believing
>>that The Enemy of His Enemy Is His Friend, if it gets otherwise serious
>>discussion started.
>>(Instead of the enemy of his enemy being a geeky delusional loser who's
>>struggling not to lose his attention meal-ticket.)
>
> But if the enemy of my enemy is my friend's enemy which means that my
> enemy is my friend? I'm so confused. :-P
>
> I was a regular on rec.arts.sf.tv and several other groups that
> attracted delusional losers. Trust me: Darky is not that bad. There
> are far, FAR worse people out there. For example, I thought ELL was
> far worse than Darkstar.
ELL was just the standard garden-variety Usenet Belching-Lout who just
wanted to get his punchline off of everyone else's post--
The spotters-guide difference between a Troll and a K00k is that the
K00k delusionally believes he's "accomplishing" something by continuing
to intentionally annoy everyone, while the Troll knows he isn't.
> You want an example of an obsessive fan who gets far too upset/
> involved in their hobby? There was lady on the SeaQuest DSV newsgroup
> who became famous even over in rec.arts.sf.tv. The producer of the
> last season of SeaQuest then memorialized her in a novel he later
> wrote about his experience with fandom.
"Yeah, and there's, like, other people who do WORSE things!"
Bully for them. We're not talking about them right now, though.
Derek Janssen
eja...@verizon.net
Travers Naran
> While anything is possible, baseless speculation does not equal fact,
> and that is all anyone who claims there is "funny business" has been
> able to offer: baseless speculation.
It wasn't baseless. There were posts from dub artists over on
animeondvd twisting off on ADV. But since no one outside of the
company can see the books, we can't be absolutely sure.
> likely the case that ADV finally made some smart business decisions in
> order to stay afloat through difficult times:
>
> - ADV kept product in release. When they lost the licenses to the
> soljitz releases earlier in the year, they switched to a slate of back
> catalog releases which helped keep cash flowing into the company.
How much was that? Do we know how much cash flow that was?
> - They cut back on staff, reducing expenses.
From other industry watching sites, they were reporting they were
cutting into the "meat" of their operation. E.g., their dub
production staff. That's like a factory selling off machinery.
> - They eliminated unprofitable (or not profitable enough in relation
> to cost needed to run) endevours - again reducing expenses and freeing
> up capital.
Reducing expenses, yes.
> - They sold off excess equipment that was no longer being utilized.
For a company of ADVs size, the amount of money brought in wasn't a
lot.
> - They seeked out new partners and restructured how they did business.
That is accurate. And that's what was surprising that they could find
this.
> There's nothing funny about any of that, and no surprises that they
> managed to survive.
It was for a company that had such a lot of known liabilities on its
book and not much visible revenue.
You see, what makes me skeptical of ADV was my experience working for
a certain independent video game company back in the late 90s. I was
at Ground Zero of an ADV-style collapse and all the stuff ADV is doing
is the stuff my old company was doing while telling its employees how
"everything was great and we're going to be stronger!" By the end,
they were in court ordered creditor protection (one step away from
bankruptcy) and the company was being sued by the creditors and
investors for the very things Darkstar accuses ADV of. In other words,
ADV is showing the same symptoms of a company playing shell games with
cash flow hoping to survive.
Someday, I might entertain you with the horror stories of management
shenanigans at my old company. They certainly scare the bejizzits out
of my current co-workers. :-)
For the record, the company survived the structured settlement they
worked out with the creditors (who lost a fair bit of cash), but the
CEO and President were unceremoniously fired. The company survived
doing work-for-hire to a lot of publishers for years before bouncing
back a few years ago. Then they got bought out by a big-name
publisher and just this year, the company was essentially amputated
from 4 game teams to 2 and there is talk with the company losing its
identity and being merged with several other smaller failing studios
the Publisher owns.
My skepticism of ADV is from first-hand experience of working at a
shaky company in a similar situation.
darkst...@gmail.com
> On Oct 22, 11:21 am, darkstar7...@gmail.com wrote:
> Do the names Eron and WorldCom ring any bells? A quick google will
> find you many cases of the people and companies getting investigated
> and found guilty of fraud here's just a couple of samples:http://www.cfo.com/article.cfm/12236505?f=cfoinside
Only because it was politically expedient for that to take place.
(And all the other stuff too...)
You don't get it. I have complained about a lot of illegalities to
this government. I've got a dozen or more collecting dust with the
FCC against three major television networks and their programming and
the actions of three different San Francisco radio stations which
would leave their licenses in significant question if the FCC would do
it's damned job and investigate _our_ airwaves.
Oh, but that's right: They aren't _our_ airwaves. We aren't the
corporates that the rest of the rank and file are supposed to suck
their dick at.
So I _do_ know the game -- and I _do_ know how to play it. But I also
_do_ know how much they put "corporate personhood" above real
personhood.
> > The thing is: You can say that safely, knowing that the government
> > will never investigate a corporation against an individual's complaint
> > in this environment.
>
> No, I can safely say it because you got nothing. Nada. Zero. Zip. You
> just keep fapping away on the net because that's all you can do. If
> you had something more than your wild imagination you'd go to the feds
> rather than rec.arts.anime.misc but you don't and you know it and you
> know that if you did go to the Feds they'd laugh in your face because
> you have nothing.
Then why am I not sued (if nothing more than a SLAPP action)...
(A SLAPP action is a Strategic Lawsuit Against Public Participation.
That is a Shut the Fuck Up lawsuit.)
Of course, the funny thing is, if I were to be sued, they'd have to
prove I'm lying. And that means show their work.
The only person who "has nothing" on ADV hasn't been paying attention
the last 12 months.
Side comment: I'm somewhat surprised that some of you lot haven't
gone and tried to discredit their anti-fansub rhetoric as well.
Mike
darkst...@gmail.com
> He can't. Such charges can only be brought against a privately-held
> company by the owners of said company or by its investors or
> creditors. Because ADV is privately held, it cannot be prosecuted by
> the SEC. If ADV was publicly traded, one could in theory drop a dime
> on them. It's been known to happen.
They're trying to shut me down, Travers. Fact is, if I could, I
would. I believe there is enough evidence out there to nail these
guys, because it's obvious there's something fishy going on here --
fraud to deceive Japanese "partners" out of money or their property
(say, like Sojitz!!)...
As I said earlier to you in e-mail: How is it that Sojitz could've
gotten the deal done on all those titles with Funimation so quickly if
they didn't know that ADV was negotiating in VERY bad faith??
> But in this case, the majority shareholder is Ledford. Only his co-
> investors can press charges, and it looks like they can't be
> bothered. I don't believe there is any criminal activity going on,
> but Ledford is running the company of fumes and dreams and convincing
> others to give him money.
I do believe there is criminal activity going on, in that vein. The
name "ADV" is _SHIT_ in anime right now -- definitely over there and
probably over here to a certain degree. The company has done
significant further damage to the anime industry (at least on one side
of the Pacific, if not both) -- and he still claims to get investors
and have the ability to raise the capital when the time comes.
On WHAT basis (short of criminal bookkeeping) can he come up with that
shit, given the last 12 months?
> That isn't a crime, and it sounds like the industry so desperately
> wants to avoid a Funimation-run R1 industry that they'll keep throwing
> money at ADV to prevent that.[1]
As I said in my extended remarks to you in e-mail that I wanted to
post here, I think that's because they need the R1 money to keep the
studios afloat before they all have to be sold and become subsidiaries
of the Japanese television networks (like TV Asahi just bought 92% of
Shin-chan's studio) to have them survive a little longer.
If Fukunaga wins out, the licensing fees drop precipitously, and so do
the Japanese studios. Like flies.
> [1] In other industries this has happened. Most recently, Microsoft
> kept throwing money into SCO in order to keep their bogus lawsuit
> against Linux running. Eventually, SCO lost big time, but they had
> done their job. That situation also had people outside wondering if
> there was criminal action.
Mike
darkst...@gmail.com
> Travers Naran wrote:
> > On Oct 22, 11:56 am, Derek Janssen <ejan...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>
> >>Travers obviously has some backgrounded complaint of his own against ADV
> >>projects too much personal
> >>benefit-of-the-doubt onto Darky's Wounded-Net-k00k[TM] posts, believing
> >>that The Enemy of His Enemy Is His Friend, if it gets otherwise serious
> >>discussion started.
> >>(Instead of the enemy of his enemy being a geeky delusional loser who's
> >>struggling not to lose his attention meal-ticket.)
>
> > But if the enemy of my enemy is my friend's enemy which means that my
> > enemy is my friend? I'm so confused. :-P
>
> > I was a regular on rec.arts.sf.tv and several other groups that
> > attracted delusional losers. Trust me: Darky is not that bad. There
> > are far, FAR worse people out there. For example, I thought ELL was
> > far worse than Darkstar.
>
> ELL was just the standard garden-variety Usenet Belching-Lout who just
> wanted to get his punchline off of everyone else's post--
> The spotters-guide difference between a Troll and a K00k is that the
> K00k delusionally believes he's "accomplishing" something by continuing
> to intentionally annoy everyone, while the Troll knows he isn't.
Of course, if you say that about the kook, then the only way to rid
the place of the kook is to eliminate the kook, either by having the
kook locked up or taken out.
(I've read a lot of stories, recently, -- some even making the news --
about "trolls", "kooks", and the amount of damage they want to
create. So that's not just a personal challenge. It's a statement of
Net-fact.)
Mike (That's why, usually, you will see, on lists of kook-dom, either
that a lot of the kooks are either incarcerated or already dead.)
Derek Janssen
> On Oct 22, 10:07 am, Travers Naran <tna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>He can't. Such charges can only be brought against a privately-held
>>company by the owners of said company or by its investors or
>>creditors. Because ADV is privately held, it cannot be prosecuted by
>>the SEC. If ADV was publicly traded, one could in theory drop a dime
>>on them. It's been known to happen.
>
> They're trying to shut me down, Travers, ha ha, they're trying to shut me down...
[Corrected for accuracy] :)
Derek Janssen
eja...@verizon.net
darkst...@gmail.com
> On Oct 22, 12:08 pm, selaboc <c64...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > While anything is possible, baseless speculation does not equal fact,
> > and that is all anyone who claims there is "funny business" has been
> > able to offer: baseless speculation.
>
> It wasn't baseless. There were posts from dub artists over on
> animeondvd twisting off on ADV. But since no one outside of the
> company can see the books, we can't be absolutely sure.
I also know I've read stuff from the same source basically having
these same dub artists tell people (who are asking them, at shows, how
to break into the industry) to forget ADV entirely. That's a strong
indictment, and appears not to be without cause.
> > likely the case that ADV finally made some smart business decisions in
> > order to stay afloat through difficult times:
>
> > - ADV kept product in release. When they lost the licenses to the
> > soljitz releases earlier in the year, they switched to a slate of back
> > catalog releases which helped keep cash flowing into the company.
>
> How much was that? Do we know how much cash flow that was?
Can't have been _that_ much, given the number of people still with the
company (or at least supposedly so)...
(Which is one of the reasons that I think that ADV having 10% of the
non-WalMart anime industry in the US is actually a _VERY BAD SIGN_ for
the industry as a whole...)
> > - They cut back on staff, reducing expenses.
>
> From other industry watching sites, they were reporting they were
> cutting into the "meat" of their operation. E.g., their dub
> production staff. That's like a factory selling off machinery.
Usually the last step before they go splat.
> > - They eliminated unprofitable (or not profitable enough in relation
> > to cost needed to run) endevours - again reducing expenses and freeing
> > up capital.
>
> Reducing expenses, yes.
But basically pissing all over what fanbase might buy their material
in the process.
> > - They sold off excess equipment that was no longer being utilized.
>
> For a company of ADVs size, the amount of money brought in wasn't a
> lot.
Can't have been.
> > - They seeked out new partners and restructured how they did business.
>
> That is accurate. And that's what was surprising that they could find
> this.
And there's the rub... Who are these new partners, and what were they
told? Especially given the speed with which Sojitz handed everything
over to Funimation (and is now closing their ARM foreign-anime
company, once and for all, come February) after they finally cut ties
with ADV, makes me wonder if ADV didn't try an illegal end-run around
the arrangement to stay in business long enough to get new investors
on product they no longer had the right to release...
It's as I said: WITH WHAT MONEY...
> > There's nothing funny about any of that, and no surprises that they
> > managed to survive.
>
> It was for a company that had such a lot of known liabilities on its
> book and not much visible revenue.
Exactly.
> You see, what makes me skeptical of ADV was my experience working for
> a certain independent video game company back in the late 90s. I was
> at Ground Zero of an ADV-style collapse and all the stuff ADV is doing
> is the stuff my old company was doing while telling its employees how
> "everything was great and we're going to be stronger!" By the end,
> they were in court ordered creditor protection (one step away from
> bankruptcy) and the company was being sued by the creditors and
> investors for the very things Darkstar accuses ADV of. In other words,
> ADV is showing the same symptoms of a company playing shell games with
> cash flow hoping to survive.
And don't think that's an uncommon practice. In fact, to one extent
or another, everybody is doing it at this point. That's one of the
reasons we're in the volatile mess we're in now!
Mike
darkst...@gmail.com
You can only wish they were coming to take me away...
Mike (To the birds and the trees and the Funny Farm, where life is
beautiful all the time...)
Derek Janssen
> On Oct 22, 1:02 pm, Derek Janssen <ejan...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>>ELL was just the standard garden-variety Usenet Belching-Lout who just
>>wanted to get his punchline off of everyone else's post--
>>The spotters-guide difference between a Troll and a K00k is that the
>>K00k delusionally believes he's "accomplishing" something by continuing
>>to intentionally annoy everyone, while the Troll knows he isn't.
>
> Of course, if you say that about the kook, then the only way to rid
> the place of the kook is to eliminate the kook, either by having the
> kook locked up or taken out
> Here, see this butt?--Kick it!...No, really, please, I'm asking!! <bends over>
[Also corrected for accuracy.]
> (I've read a lot of stories, recently, -- some even making the news --
> about "trolls", "kooks", and the amount of damage they want to
> create. So that's not just a personal challenge. It's a statement of
> Net-fact.)
>
> Mike (That's why, usually, you will see, on lists of kook-dom, either
> that a lot of the kooks are either incarcerated or already dead.)
Or who just wandered off whereabouts-unknown after being ignored for
years on end...
Prompting the usual "Say, remember that k00k we used to giggle
over?--Whatever happened to the lil' nut, anyway?" and parody-imitations
for group-nostalgia's sake.
Derek Janssen (admittedly, not the "coolest" category to ideally find
oneself in, but...)
eja...@verizon.net
The Wanderer
> I was a regular on rec.arts.sf.tv and several other groups that
> attracted delusional losers. Trust me: Darky is not that bad. There
> are far, FAR worse people out there. For example, I thought ELL was
> far worse than Darkstar.
The Eternal Lost Lurker is perhaps ruder than Darkstar, at least in
terms of general practice.
He's not nearly so delusional or so obsessive. In point of fact, I'm not
sure I'd consider him delusional or obsessive at all.
There are, indeed, worse people out there than Darkstar, in the
"delusional loser" Olympics; even in my limited circle of familiarity,
SpectateSwamp springs to mind. That doesn't excuse Darkstar himself in
the least, however; it may in fact leave him more open to criticism than
they are, because they at least have the excuse of being batshit insane.
--
The Wanderer
Warning: Simply because I argue an issue does not mean I agree with any
side of it.
Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.
Abraham Evangelista
wrote:
>No, I can safely say it because you got nothing. Nada. Zero. Zip. You
>just keep fapping away on the net because that's all you can do. If
>you had something more than your wild imagination you'd go to the feds
>rather than rec.arts.anime.misc but you don't and you know it and you
>know that if you did go to the Feds they'd laugh in your face because
>you have nothing.
Well more to the point, he has no standing in this case, right? Unless
he happens to be an ADV shareholder, he couldn't even file, right?
--
Abraham Evangelista
selaboc
> On Oct 22, 12:08 pm, selaboc <c64...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > While anything is possible, baseless speculation does not equal fact,
> > and that is all anyone who claims there is "funny business" has been
> > able to offer: baseless speculation.
>
> It wasn't baseless. There were posts from dub artists over on
> animeondvd twisting off on ADV. But since no one outside of the
> company can see the books, we can't be absolutely sure.
Yeah, out of work people can be like that, who knew?
> > likely the case that ADV finally made some smart business decisions in
> > order to stay afloat through difficult times:
>
> > - ADV kept product in release. When they lost the licenses to the
> > soljitz releases earlier in the year, they switched to a slate of back
> > catalog releases which helped keep cash flowing into the company.
>
> How much was that? Do we know how much cash flow that was?
Steady. While we don't know the amounts, there's no reason to think
there wasn't any considering a rerelease is relatively cheap to
produce (most of the expense was expended making the origional
release)
> > - They sold off excess equipment that was no longer being utilized.
>
> For a company of ADVs size, the amount of money brought in wasn't a
> lot.
While it may not be much, every little bit helps.
> > - They seeked out new partners and restructured how they did business.
>
> That is accurate. And that's what was surprising that they could find
> this.
Only surprising to those who bought into the gloom and doom
predictions of net k00ks. Not so surprising to everyone who scoffed at
said K00ks constant insistance that they were "dead dead dead".
> > There's nothing funny about any of that, and no surprises that they
> > managed to survive.
>
> It was for a company that had such a lot of known liabilities on its
> book and not much visible revenue.
They had/have a very visible and steady stream of revenue, that was
part of the reason for the slate or rereleases. Also, eliminatating
the unprofitable operations was, in part, also a means of getting rid
of some of their financial liabilities
selaboc
> > No, I can safely say it because you got nothing. Nada. Zero. Zip. You
> > just keep fapping away on the net because that's all you can do. If
> > you had something more than your wild imagination you'd go to the feds
> > rather than rec.arts.anime.misc but you don't and you know it and you
> > know that if you did go to the Feds they'd laugh in your face because
> > you have nothing.
>
> Then why am I not sued (if nothing more than a SLAPP action)...
Why would they need to sue a trolling net k00k? Don't flatter
yourself, you're nothing to them.
sanjian
"The Wanderer" <inverse...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:eK-dnYDxBanEA2LV...@giganews.com...
> Travers Naran wrote:
>
>> I was a regular on rec.arts.sf.tv and several other groups that
>> attracted delusional losers. Trust me: Darky is not that bad. There
>> are far, FAR worse people out there. For example, I thought ELL was
>> far worse than Darkstar.
>
> The Eternal Lost Lurker is perhaps ruder than Darkstar, at least in
> terms of general practice.
>
> He's not nearly so delusional or so obsessive. In point of fact, I'm not
> sure I'd consider him delusional or obsessive at all.
Lurker was an asshole, but no worse. And he was often an asshole with a
good point.
Inu-Yasha
"Travers Naran" <tna...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e41fcd61-a5e3-48cf...@k36g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 22, 6:01 am, selaboc <c64...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I said it before and I say it again: if you really believe all that
>> "crooked bookkeeping" crap you spew, call the feds and get that
>> investigation started. There are laws against that kind of thing, and
>> if you honestly believe that is what is going on, it is you duty to
>> call it in. go on, be a man, call it in and see what happens :)
>
> He can't. Such charges can only be brought against a privately-held
> company by the owners of said company or by its investors or
> creditors. Because ADV is privately held, it cannot be prosecuted by
> the SEC. If ADV was publicly traded, one could in theory drop a dime
> on them. It's been known to happen.
>
> But in this case, the majority shareholder is Ledford. Only his co-
> investors can press charges, and it looks like they can't be
> bothered. I don't believe there is any criminal activity going on,
> but Ledford is running the company of fumes and dreams and convincing
> others to give him money.
>
> That isn't a crime, and it sounds like the industry so desperately
> wants to avoid a Funimation-run R1 industry that they'll keep throwing
> money at ADV to prevent that.[1]
>
industry fearing a Funimation domination of the market, but my case as
mentioned in the original post would seem to support that Funimation is well
on thier way to being the dominent company, i.e. I would expect that ADV had
finished the translation/dubbing for Red Garden Vol 6as Vol 5 was released
not too long ago under the ADV lable, and 6 was expected out soon, however
now Vol 5 has ben pulled back (on Amazon.com anyway), and Vol 6 is
unavailable from the manufacturer. How ever Funimation is releasing Red
garden in 2 box sets of vol 1-3 & Vol 4-6, available Dec 16th, awfully soon
to have done the work themselves. So did ADV dump another new anime release
to Funimation, or what? I don't know, but am happy I can finish the Red
Garden series.
Inu-Yasha
Feh!! ^_^
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
He wants to be so much more... but not badly enough. The fool
apparently seriously expects some of US to sue him -- as though he'd be
worth it. But he's not willing to expend the effort to actually do
something to BE worth it.
--
Sea Wasp
/^\
;;;
Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com
Derek Janssen
> selaboc wrote:
>
>> On Oct 22, 5:07 pm, darkstar7...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>> No, I can safely say it because you got nothing. Nada. Zero. Zip. You
>>>> just keep fapping away on the net because that's all you can do. If
>>>> you had something more than your wild imagination you'd go to the feds
>>>> rather than rec.arts.anime.misc but you don't and you know it and you
>>>> know that if you did go to the Feds they'd laugh in your face because
>>>> you have nothing.
>>>
>>> You are powerless to stop me...Doc-tor!
(Okay, so had to add that last bit, but still fits.) ;)
>> Why would they need to sue a trolling net k00k? Don't flatter
>> yourself, you're nothing to them.
>
> He wants to be so much more... but not badly enough. The fool
> apparently seriously expects some of US to sue him -- as though he'd be
> worth it. But he's not willing to expend the effort to actually do
> something to BE worth it.
Gee, maybe if he throws around some of his "badass" fantasies about
being in prison 'n stuff, and generally trying to sound like a TLC
garage show, the corporate heads would REALLY take him seriously--
He certainly thinks the strategy would work around here...
(So, what *else* do convention geeks do, besides fantasizing their
influence, demonizing the corporate studio guy in charge, imagining
petitions out of the air, or whining about being thrown out of conventions?)
Derek Janssen
eja...@verizon.net
selaboc
> > That isn't a crime, and it sounds like the industry so desperately
> > wants to avoid a Funimation-run R1 industry that they'll keep throwing
> > money at ADV to prevent that.[1]
>
> Now I am a seriously uninformed person when it comes to the R1 anime
> industry fearing a Funimation domination of the market, but my case as
> mentioned in the original post would seem to support that Funimation is well
> on thier way to being the dominent company, i.e. I would expect that ADV had
> finished the translation/dubbing for Red Garden Vol 6as Vol 5 was released
> not too long ago under the ADV lable, and 6 was expected out soon, however
> now Vol 5 has ben pulled back (on Amazon.com anyway), and Vol 6 is
> unavailable from the manufacturer. How ever Funimation is releasing Red
> garden in 2 box sets of vol 1-3 & Vol 4-6, available Dec 16th, awfully soon
> to have done the work themselves. So did ADV dump another new anime release
> to Funimation, or what? I don't know, but am happy I can finish the Red
> Garden series.
It's not that ADV dumped anything. ADV would have loved to continue
releasing those series. Unfortunely for ADV, the license was held by
ARM/Soljitz who (for reasons unknown to all but those corporate
entites involved, though you'll no doubt hear endless speculation
spouted as if it was fact from certain quarters) pulled out of that
relationship and moved those titles (not just Red Garden, NHK, and
Kanon, but just about every new series ADV had been releasing for the
past year or two) to FUNI.
The end result was was ADV on partly released several series to which
FUNI will finish releasing them. In some cases, as singles (such as
Kanon v6) or else in sets (for example Wallflower v3-6).
As you guessed, for some of these series, ADV had already completed
the dub work on the unreleased volume(s) (as they did have plans to
release them until the plug was pulled). In the case of series that
only one or two volumes had been released, the end of the series may
have be yndubbed at the time FUNI took over. In such cases I image
FUNI either contracted ADV to complete the dub (for dub continuity) or
they sent it to whatever dub studios they normally use (in whcih case
there may be a change in VAs mid way through the series)
selaboc
> garden in 2 box sets of vol 1-3 & Vol 4-6, available Dec 16th, awfully soon
> to have done the work themselves. So did ADV dump another new anime release
> to Funimation, or what? I don't know, but am happy I can finish the Red
> Garden series.
Oh, and according to AOD's release dates page, FUNI is releases a
single for the Vol 6 on the same day as the collections (though if you
need both Vol 5 and 6, your best bet is to pick up the Collection of
Vol 4-6 as it'll be cheaper that way):
12-16-2008 Red Garden Complete Collection Part 1 FUNimation
Entertainment, Ltd. DVD 300 $49.98
12-16-2008 Red Garden Complete Collection Part 2 FUNimation
Entertainment, Ltd. DVD 300 $49.98
12-16-2008 Red Garden Vol. #6 FUNimation Entertainment, Ltd. DVD 100
$29.98
darkst...@gmail.com
> darkstar7...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Of course, if you say that about the kook, then the only way to rid
> > the place of the kook is to eliminate the kook, either by having the
> > kook locked up or taken out
> Here, see this butt?--Kick it!...No, really, please, I'm asking!! <bends over>
If you believe a kook has gone to that level, you cannot discredit
them without removing them -- with legal force, as and if necessary.
Trust me, been around the Net far too damned long to see otherwise.
(One of the reasons many people who formerly have used USENET no
longer wish to do so.)
But, after I read an article about the levels of maliciousness some of
the kooks and trolls went to, I came to the above conclusion. You
think I'm a kook or a troll? Have me put off the Net (for good, this
time) or come take me out. Otherwise, fuckers, I'm here long after
you're gone.
I spit all over your "fandom", because it is built on illegal
pretenses and false claims of support.
> > (I've read a lot of stories, recently, -- some even making the news --
> > about "trolls", "kooks", and the amount of damage they want to
> > create. So that's not just a personal challenge. It's a statement of
> > Net-fact.)
>
> > Mike (That's why, usually, you will see, on lists of kook-dom, either
> > that a lot of the kooks are either incarcerated or already dead.)
>
> Or who just wandered off whereabouts-unknown after being ignored for
> years on end...
Most such trolls don't stay so ignored forever.
Some gain new converts.
Some force the hand through non-violent means...
Mike (And some go Columbine on the mess...)
darkst...@gmail.com
Exactly. And that's one of the means that their obfuscation can be
held up.
Of course, here's the kicker, though:
Did Sojitz actually sell off their 20%-ish stake in ADV, and, if so,
to whom?
We know that ADV could not have bought it back. ADV was out of cash
(so much so that they had to give Crunchyroll something to even
complete the dub for "Welcome to the NHK") at some point last year.
Here's where things get a little fun... What if Sojitz still has the
stock, but realizes that ADV is broke and bankrupt (so much so that
one responder to yesterday's news of the ARM dissolution actually, and
correctly!, perceives that this corporate obfuscation is a deliberate
attempt to declare ADV bankrupt so Sojitz no longer gets anything from
the pre-Sojitz titles either), and suing them would not be worth the
cost, even though it's clear to anyone paying attention that the only
reason ARM was even _created_ was that ADV defrauded Sojitz into
believing that R1 anime was profitable, and conned them into giving
them $20M for a 20% stake in the company which might not have been
worth near that much...
(And then the fraud completes when they try to re-negotiate, and,
chances are, Sojitz knew ADV was, now, conning them, and ran to
Funimation as quickly as they could carry out the transfer -- which
leaves in question the legality of any Sojitz license-release from ADV
from about February through the final transfer in June.)
Mike
darkst...@gmail.com
> On Oct 22, 4:08 pm, Travers Naran <tna...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Oct 22, 12:08 pm, selaboc <c64...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > While anything is possible, baseless speculation does not equal fact,
> > > and that is all anyone who claims there is "funny business" has been
> > > able to offer: baseless speculation.
>
> > It wasn't baseless. There were posts from dub artists over on
> > animeondvd twisting off on ADV. But since no one outside of the
> > company can see the books, we can't be absolutely sure.
>
> Yeah, out of work people can be like that, who knew?
So piss on them, right?
(Yep, it's foul-mouthed now.)
Piss on them for being pissed off that they no longer have any work
due to almost-certain fraud by their contracted employer. Yeah, piss
on them for thinking they had any rights at all!!
> > > likely the case that ADV finally made some smart business decisions in
> > > order to stay afloat through difficult times:
>
> > > - ADV kept product in release. When they lost the licenses to the
> > > soljitz releases earlier in the year, they switched to a slate of back
> > > catalog releases which helped keep cash flowing into the company.
>
> > How much was that? Do we know how much cash flow that was?
>
> Steady. While we don't know the amounts, there's no reason to think
> there wasn't any considering a rerelease is relatively cheap to
> produce (most of the expense was expended making the origional
> release)
Steady, but not enough to even allow them to complete the work they
had contracted for (which see the CrunchyShit deal for WttNHK).
Just because it's a steady cashflow doesn't mean it's enough to
survive without funky bookkeeping.
> > > - They sold off excess equipment that was no longer being utilized.
>
> > For a company of ADVs size, the amount of money brought in wasn't a
> > lot.
>
> While it may not be much, every little bit helps.
The fact that they had to sell off the equipment should tell you
volumes.
> > > - They seeked out new partners and restructured how they did business.
>
> > That is accurate. And that's what was surprising that they could find
> > this.
>
> Only surprising to those who bought into the gloom and doom
> predictions of net k00ks. Not so surprising to everyone who scoffed at
> said K00ks constant insistance that they were "dead dead dead".
They ARE dead. They are _shit_ to most of the anime industry. The
fact that they are not completely out of business by now (some people
say, now, at least 3 years after they died), with some of the crap
they've pulled, should well be cause for investigation.
And, for all we know, there's still that rumor out there of the
seizure in their offices by the local police. So there might be one
out there.
> > > There's nothing funny about any of that, and no surprises that they
> > > managed to survive.
>
> > It was for a company that had such a lot of known liabilities on its
> > book and not much visible revenue.
>
> They had/have a very visible and steady stream of revenue, that was
> part of the reason for the slate or rereleases. Also, eliminatating
> the unprofitable operations was, in part, also a means of getting rid
> of some of their financial liabilities
The fact is that their entire operation has been unprofitable -- and
probably has been for _years_. That's what necessitated the Sojitz/
ARM deal in the first fucking place, if you haven't been paying
attention.
Mike
darkst...@gmail.com
To silence me. And, given my previous net-reputation, perhaps as a
matter of perceived safety to them as well.
Mike (You've already made several allusions to it.)
darkst...@gmail.com
> Now I am a seriously uninformed person when it comes to the R1 anime
> industry fearing a Funimation domination of the market, but my case as
> mentioned in the original post would seem to support that Funimation is well
> on thier way to being the dominent company, i.e. I would expect that ADV had
> finished the translation/dubbing for Red Garden Vol 6as Vol 5 was released
> not too long ago under the ADV lable, and 6 was expected out soon, however
> now Vol 5 has ben pulled back (on Amazon.com anyway), and Vol 6 is
> unavailable from the manufacturer. How ever Funimation is releasing Red
> garden in 2 box sets of vol 1-3 & Vol 4-6, available Dec 16th, awfully soon
> to have done the work themselves. So did ADV dump another new anime release
> to Funimation, or what? I don't know, but am happy I can finish the Red
> Garden series.
They're more than on their way: With essentially a third of the non-
WalMart industry and more than that (the WM titles have been reported
as dominated by Funi and Viz) with WalMart (an estimated 30-40% of all
anime being sold through WalMart), they probably had 40-45% of the
anime market in the first six months of the year _BEFORE THEY GOT THE
SOJITZ AND GENEON RESCUES_.
It would not be out of the question, after this all shakes out, that
my claim of 55-60% (or even upwards of 2/3rds) of the entire market
belonging to Funi would stand up.
As far as the titles are concerned: These are the ADV dubs,
apparently. The problem for Funimation is that they needed,
essentially, to buy off the rights to those dubs, and then make new
artwork and new DVDs and the like.
Mike
darkst...@gmail.com
<seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> He wants to be so much more... but not badly enough. The fool
> apparently seriously expects some of US to sue him -- as though he'd be
> worth it. But he's not willing to expend the effort to actually do
> something to BE worth it.
How so, bitch?
No, seriously... How so?
If what Farix said earlier this year about copyright is true (and that
he doesn't cede it beforehand by posting it here), then he has the
right to demand that I not see it. So where's his fucking lawsuit,
bitch??
*slap*
Mike
Dave Watson
> this government. I've got a dozen or more collecting dust with the
> FCC against three major television networks and their programming and
> the actions of three different San Francisco radio stations which
> would leave their licenses in significant question if the FCC would do
> it's damned job and investigate _our_ airwaves.
<lolcat> Busy crank is busy. </lolcat>
Watson.
Derek Janssen
Ever wonder what happened to Ryb, and his crusades against Magna of
Pricess Monookie?
It's actually an untold story, we had to hire an ex-IRA strike team...
Derek Janssen (and it's said that Tony Gaza is buried somewhere near
Jimmy Hoffa)
eja...@verizon.net
Derek Janssen
>
> Here's where things get a little fun... What if Sojitz still has the
> stock, but realizes that ADV is broke and bankrupt (so much so that
> one responder to yesterday's news of the ARM dissolution actually, and
> correctly!
What if George Washington had his own time machine?
Derek Janssen
eja...@vierzon.net
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
Here, one favor for you: a direct reply. Don't you feel SPECIAL now?
darkst...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Oct 22, 8:38 pm, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
> <seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>> He wants to be so much more... but not badly enough. The fool
>> apparently seriously expects some of US to sue him -- as though he'd be
>> worth it. But he's not willing to expend the effort to actually do
>> something to BE worth it.
>
> How so, bitch?
Note; I'm male. So, wrong insult.
>
> No, seriously... How so?
HOW you achieve being "worth it" is up to you. So far, you fail. All
you have managed to be worth is mockery.
>
> If what Farix said earlier this year about copyright is true (and that
> he doesn't cede it beforehand by posting it here), then he has the
> right to demand that I not see it. So where's his fucking lawsuit,
> bitch??
"Bastard" would be the correct term. It would also make me sound like I
was Dark Schneider, which would be cool. Or you could use "Dog" if you
want to sound like Conan.
It's not there, nor coming, since you're NOT WORTH IT. Let me explain
this concept to you.
Lawsuits require effort. That's why music companies don't sue each and
every person who downloads a song illegally: it is NOT WORTH IT. It
takes too much effort to BOTHER for something so piddly.
Do you understand? YOU ARE NOT WORTH IT. You are worth occasional
mockery, harrassment, and discussion of your amusing foibles. You are
not worth actually expending any more effort than an Abusenet post
requires, because there's NOTHING FOR ME TO GAIN by it. Nothing for
Farix to gain by it. By your own words, you're apparently an ex-con who
likely hasn't got any assets to speak of. What would we sue you FOR?
Lawsuits cost time and money. I have plenty to occupy my time, and
plenty of uses for the THOUSANDS of dollars it would cost to pursue even
the simplest of lawsuits. If I had that much to throw around, I'd take
my family on a vacation, buy myself a new computer, etc., etc., etc.
The same is certainly true of Farix. Someone like Bill Gates has enough
money to just randomly pursue trivial lawsuits, if he wants, but -- wait
for it -- it's NOT WORTH IT. He's got MUCH more important things to do
with his time, which is worth more per minute than yours is per year.
Maybe your problem is simply that you think you ARE worth it, and it
hurts to realize that you're not. The anime industry doesn't notice you,
we only notice you to mock you, and the rest of the world doesn't know
you exist.
Oh, and you're (once more, unsurprisingly) wrong about Usenet kooks and
trolls. MOST of them don't get jailed, sued, or driven off. At most they
get occasionally booted from an ISP that gets tired of complaints. Most
of them don't even get that much. To get to legal action, you need to go
beyond being a mere kook or troll like Archimedes Plutonium or Robert
McElwaine or even Terry Austin, and become an actual stalker or menace
(I believe the name Fabrikant is apropos).
Kooks on YOUR level just get made fun of. Forever. Until they stop
being kooks, or actually get nutty enough to be REAL annoyances or
dangers, and THEN someone -- usually living in their area, and
potentially threatened by them -- takes action.
You talk a lot, but you don't DO, and that makes you just an amusing
kook or troll.
There you go. A personal response. Hope that made you feel special for
once in your gray, pallid, and lonely existence.
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
And let's not even speak of what happened to the Cable brothers...
Derek Janssen
>>>>
>>>>> Mike (That's why, usually, you will see, on lists of kook-dom, either
>>>>> that a lot of the kooks are either incarcerated or already dead.)
>>>>
>>>> Or who just wandered off whereabouts-unknown after being ignored for
>>>> years on end...
>>>
>>> Most such trolls don't stay so ignored forever.
>>>
>>> Some gain new converts.
>>>
>>> Some force the hand through non-violent means...
>>>
>>> Mike (And some go Columbine on the mess...)
>>
>> Ever wonder what happened to Ryb, and his crusades against Magna of
>> Pricess Monookie?
>> It's actually an untold story, we had to hire an ex-IRA strike team...
>>
>> Jimmy Hoffa)
(Y'see, we actually had to net-forge that one drunken-typed 3am post of
"You guys just don't care about anybody, do ya <hic!>?" just before he
"left", to establish plausible alibi within a reasonable time-frame.)
> And let's not even speak of what happened to the Cable brothers...
Shh, we have an understanding with the Canadian government not to
release details.
Derek Janssen (all secret Swiss-bank assets have been seized)
eja...@verizon.net
Rob Kelk
<eja...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>darkst...@gmail.com wrote:
<snip>
>> If you believe a kook has gone to that level, you cannot discredit
>> them without removing them -- with legal force, as and if necessary.
What, did he *really* say that? <shakes head in disbelief>
First free clue: In order to be discredited, you first have to have
been creditable.
Second free clue: A net.kook can be removed by cutting off his access
to any ISPs he can reach. This is most easily done by someone who is
employed by another ISP (or NSP, in the case of Usenet). It can also be
done by someone with access to a recognized antispam 'bot and
willingness to use it in a personal vendetta.
(Yes, I do happen to have access to a recognized antispam 'bot. I don't
care enough about anyone who isn't actually damaging the network to want
to kick them off Usenet. But I'm one of the "good guys".)
If you want more clues, you're going to have earn them with good
behaviour: no more name-calling, no more stating opinions as fact, no
more refusing to look at evidence.
>> Trust me, been around the Net far too damned long to see otherwise.
<snip>
--
Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> e-mail: s/deadspam/gmail/
"You're not supposed to sell the files. 'Who'd be stupid enough to
buy something they could have for free?' you may well ask yourself.
If you do sell them, you are a Bad Person and may later exhibit
signs of wanting to run for political office"
- Dave Drake, discussing free, legal entertainment files
Derek Janssen
> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:53:10 GMT, Derek Janssen
> <eja...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>
>
>>darkst...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>>If you believe a kook has gone to that level, you cannot discredit
>>>them without removing them -- with legal force, as and if necessary.
>
>
> What, did he *really* say that? <shakes head in disbelief>
>
> First free clue: In order to be discredited, you first have to have
> been creditable.
>
> Second free clue: A net.kook can be removed by cutting off his access
> to any ISPs he can reach. This is most easily done by someone who is
> employed by another ISP (or NSP, in the case of Usenet). It can also be
> done by someone with access to a recognized antispam 'bot and
> willingness to use it in a personal vendetta.
>
> (Yes, I do happen to have access to a recognized antispam 'bot. I don't
> care enough about anyone who isn't actually damaging the network to want
> to kick them off Usenet. But I'm one of the "good guys".)
>
> If you want more clues, you're going to have earn them with good
> behaviour: no more name-calling, no more stating opinions as fact, no
> more refusing to look at evidence.
And no more "Oo, I'm tough!--I use CUSSWORDS!" for last-ditch
attention-value when running out of material.
(When we started the "Yes, I'm using it now!" in a previous
post....that's a cry for help.)
Derek Janssen (and said help is not likely to be forthcoming)
eja...@verizon.net
Antonio E. Gonzalez
What if ADV was the broke and bankrupt one instead of Sojitz?
. . .
Nah, the Washington one's more likely . . .
--
- ReFlex 76
- "Let's beat the terrorists with our most powerful weapon . . . hot
girl-on-girl action!"
- "The difference between young and old is the difference between
looking forward to your next birthday, and dreading it!"
- Jesus Christ - The original hippie!
<http://reflex76.blogspot.com/>
<http://www.blogger.com/profile/07245047157197572936>
Katana > Chain Saw > Baseball Bat > Hammer
Inu-Yasha
"Antonio E. Gonzalez" <AntE...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:iv12g413cocjicnro...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:13:02 GMT, Derek Janssen
> <eja...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>darkst...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Here's where things get a little fun... What if Sojitz still has the
>>> stock, but realizes that ADV is broke and bankrupt (so much so that
>>> one responder to yesterday's news of the ARM dissolution actually, and
>>> correctly!
>>
>>What if George Washington had his own time machine?
>>
>
> What if ADV was the broke and bankrupt one instead of Sojitz?
>
> . . .
>
> Nah, the Washington one's more likely . . .
>
portaited on teh 100 smacker bill and bumped that non-presidential scientist
and philosopher Ben to the singleton...wouldn't he?
Inu-Yasha
Feh!! ^_^
Nah, he's too honest to do that...
Captain Nerd
"Inu-Yasha" <tjar...@cfl.rr.com> wrote:
> "Antonio E. Gonzalez" <AntE...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:iv12g413cocjicnro...@4ax.com...
> > On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:13:02 GMT, Derek Janssen
> > <eja...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
> >
> >>darkst...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Here's where things get a little fun... What if Sojitz still has the
> >>> stock, but realizes that ADV is broke and bankrupt (so much so that
> >>> one responder to yesterday's news of the ARM dissolution actually, and
> >>> correctly!
> >>
> >>What if George Washington had his own time machine?
> >>
> >
> > What if ADV was the broke and bankrupt one instead of Sojitz?
> >
> > . . .
> >
> > Nah, the Washington one's more likely . . .
> >
> But if George had his own time machine he would have gotten himself
> portaited on teh 100 smacker bill and bumped that non-presidential scientist
> and philosopher Ben to the singleton...wouldn't he?
>
> Inu-Yasha
> Feh!! ^_^
>
> Nah, he's too honest to do that...
Best explanation I heard came from a "Bewitched" episode, where
Samantha explains to George Washington's ghost (or whatever. does
it really matter?) that the reason his picture is on the one and
Lincoln and others are on the larger notes, is because everyone
can afford to have a dollar. That way, more people can see his
portrait than they can the others, and there are more of them out
there.
Hey, it made sense to me as a kid, and I liked Grampa Walton's
portrayal of old George.
Cap.
--
Since 1989, recycling old jokes, cliches, and bad puns, one Usenet
post at a time!
Operation: Nerdwatch http://www.nerdwatch.com
Only email with "TO_CAP" somewhere in the subject has a chance of being read
darkst...@gmail.com
> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:13:02 GMT, Derek Janssen
>
> >darkstar7...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >> Here's where things get a little fun... What if Sojitz still has the
> >> stock, but realizes that ADV is broke and bankrupt (so much so that
> >> one responder to yesterday's news of the ARM dissolution actually, and
> >> correctly!
>
> >What if George Washington had his own time machine?
>
> What if ADV was the broke and bankrupt one instead of Sojitz?
That was true 2 1/2 years ago when the arrangement started. And all
indications pointed to that Sojitz got conned -- royally.
Understand that the anime fandom played a large role in that con.
> Nah, the Washington one's more likely . . .
If Washington had a time machine, he'd have been hanged as a terrorist
by the current regime in America.
Mike (So would've the other Founding Fathers.)
darkst...@gmail.com
> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:53:10 GMT, Derek Janssen
>
> >darkstar7...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >> If you believe a kook has gone to that level, you cannot discredit
> >> them without removing them -- with legal force, as and if necessary.
>
> What, did he *really* say that? <shakes head in disbelief>
Absolutely. I really did say that.
> First free clue: In order to be discredited, you first have to have
> been creditable.
USENET, to its great detriment, provides its own credibility. The
Internet, to an even larger detriment, even more so. This is why you
hear the stories of girls being terrorized on the Internet to the
point of suicide.
Understand the alternative: If posting stuff on USENET did not
provide its own credibility, in and of itself, "truth", as a concept,
would be determined by mob rule. (Just like what you're
(collectively) trying to do here.)
Essentially, it's a perfect propaganda device -- used in American
society all the time! In fact, in the day and age of Wikipedia and
its variants, you easily _could_ (over the course of a much longer
period of time than this model has had yet -- and this is why that
kind of stuff is still somewhat reliable) alter what is considered
true. If you get enough people to lie in enough concert, it can
become (in social circles) truth. Reinforce that truth with a degree
of authority (not necessarily legal authority), and you could
ostensibly change what is considered referetial fact.
This is quite possible, and is often what is desired by groups like
yours. Take the anime industry, as a good example of this: You wish
to absolutely absolve a criminal "fanbase" of all liability,
wrongdoing, and criminal activity in the active act of the destruction
of the anime industry (at minimum R1, and eventually the cessation of
all anime creation in Japan within the next several years), and put
this all on an industry which (though it does appear to have resorted
to fraud, in varying amounts, against not only investors but fans) has
broken its back to try to satisfy you. What an ungrateful lot of sad
sods the anime fandom is!!
Here's the thing: If you get enough people to actually believe the
shit you are spewing, vis-a-vis that it's all the industry's fault and
not our own as a fandom, then you can change the "historical fact" to
that standing. It's like I read all the responses on the thread
regarding Sojitz' dissolution of ARM, and they, fairly universally,
kick Sojitz in the ass and tell them not to let the door to the United
States hit them in the ass.
Forget that ADV sold them such a fucking bill of goods that it wasn't
even funny.
Forget that these same fans are costing the industry at least $20M a
week, and probably a lot more.
Forget all that. Sure, it's all the industry's fault.
You know what? Fuck that. And if you're an anime fan who really
believes that, fuck you.
> Second free clue: A net.kook can be removed by cutting off his access
> to any ISPs he can reach. This is most easily done by someone who is
> employed by another ISP (or NSP, in the case of Usenet). It can also be
> done by someone with access to a recognized antispam 'bot and
> willingness to use it in a personal vendetta.
I'm actually surprised some of you haven't tried.
Here's the problem: That works in theory. But, unless you can
physically bar the person from entering every public library, Internet
cafe, and the like in the country, you can't keep them off of all
ISPs. That's why the concept of a "Usenet Death Penalty (UDP)" no
longer really functionally works without jailing the person or
eliminating them.
(A Usenet Death Penalty, for those who do not know, used to be the
realistic "last resort" to maintain what was perceived to be "order"
on Usenet. Any message that a person under a UDP would have would be
cancelled, presumptively by enough servers that the person would be
run off of Usenet once and for all and finally.)
The problem is, that UDP and the like no longer works, without a legal
injunction, usually requiring a formal jailing. This is why you see
the types of trolls running around various matters of the Internet,
looking for the next young girl they can devastate to the point of her
committing suicide.
> (Yes, I do happen to have access to a recognized antispam 'bot. I don't
> care enough about anyone who isn't actually damaging the network to want
> to kick them off Usenet. But I'm one of the "good guys".)
Well, that, more, depends on how you interpret "damaging the network"
-- which see the concept of a UDP. I'm actually shocked some of you
guys haven't tried it.
> If you want more clues, you're going to have earn them with good
> behaviour: no more name-calling, no more stating opinions as fact, no
> more refusing to look at evidence.
Then I get no more clues from you. You are trying to alter what is
considered truth.
I'll tell you why: The level to which I have lost respect of anime
"fans" like you does sometimes border on that I have to be really
careful of what I say. If I told you what I really felt about some of
you, I'd be jailed. (So the fact that some of you really do make me
wish I were is not a vacuous comment.)
I have no respect for the level of hypocrisy I see within this
fanbase. And, you know what? The more I see of that hypocrisy, the
more I wonder how the people who work in the anime industry put up
with the sorry lot... And that makes me sick (sometimes quite
physically so).
How the local authorities have not shut some of this shit down yet is
beyond me -- actually, I'll take that back in one respect: As I've
said before, I think the fact that a lot of these events fill hotel
space is the only real reason they continue to be allowed.
But the discontent I have does definitely border on violent. I have
attended two shows since I moved down here: One, because the guy
running it is an old friendly acquaintance of mine from the Bay Area
-- the other because some of the voice talents I've wanted to catch up
with were there. Both, basically, to give my friend a little more
peace and quiet back here at home.
If I could go to these events and have nothing to do with the fandom
except on my terms, it'd be better for me and safer for everybody.
Because, frankly, you disgust me. (Again, all relevant "yous" are
more collective.) There should've been arrests at at least one of the
shows I attended.
> Rob Kelk <http://robkelk.ottawa-anime.org/> e-mail: s/deadspam/gmail/
> "You're not supposed to sell the files. 'Who'd be stupid enough to
> buy something they could have for free?' you may well ask yourself.
> If you do sell them, you are a Bad Person and may later exhibit
> signs of wanting to run for political office"
> - Dave Drake, discussing free, legal entertainment files
And that's what makes me even sicker: They'll be running the
government of whatever will pass for a "country" in about 20 years.
Mike
darkst...@gmail.com
<seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> Here, one favor for you: a direct reply. Don't you feel SPECIAL now?
Oh, I feel special... *spit*
You see, here's the problem: You (and this one is personal to you,
Sea Wasp) represent what I find most sickening about anime "fandom".
Not only do you feel entitled to anime on your terms (or at least you
so support that stand that you might as well go down that road
completely), but you absolve the fandom of all criminal and civil
wrongdoing. Fact is, you should've gone down the road of the industry
committing rampant fraud 18 months to 2 years ago. But, since all you
seem to be concerned with is your own (and the "fandom's") entitlement
to all this, you just look like a complete idiot to anyone paying
attention (which, of course, automatically disqualifies anime "fandom"
essentially completely from the equation).
> darkstar7...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Oct 22, 8:38 pm, "Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)"
> > <seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
>
> >> He wants to be so much more... but not badly enough. The fool
> >> apparently seriously expects some of US to sue him -- as though he'd be
> >> worth it. But he's not willing to expend the effort to actually do
> >> something to BE worth it.
>
> > How so, bitch?
>
> Note; I'm male. So, wrong insult.
"Bitch" is fine. You want "asshole", "motherfucker", whatever... I
don't care. Just know I have zero respect for you personally.
> > No, seriously... How so?
>
> HOW you achieve being "worth it" is up to you. So far, you fail. All
> you have managed to be worth is mockery.
Mockery, of that level over that period of time, can result (and has
been proven to result) in massive violent outbursts by said mocked.
Not that one should encourage such a result, but, especially with you
knowing of my history -- just something to keep in mind.
Here's a hint: AUK won't touch me. Not because I probably haven't
merited, in their eyes, several KotMs and probably some Lifetime
Achievement stuff, but the fact that they have already concluded that
pushing me might result in something... unfortunate.
That's the battle I have to fight everyday, bitch. I've been able to
hold it down, but only by the grace of an entity far greater than
myself and not of _this_ Earth.
I wouldn't be here if I had my own way about things.
> > If what Farix said earlier this year about copyright is true (and that
> > he doesn't cede it beforehand by posting it here), then he has the
> > right to demand that I not see it. So where's his fucking lawsuit,
> > bitch??
>
> "Bastard" would be the correct term. It would also make me sound like I
> was Dark Schneider, which would be cool. Or you could use "Dog" if you
> want to sound like Conan.
See above. You're like that overzealous Doberman I walk past every
day who, frankly, someone needs to take a gun to.
> It's not there, nor coming, since you're NOT WORTH IT. Let me explain
> this concept to you.
No. Because, as I just got done saying to Rob: You ain't getting rid
of me outside of either legal force or taking me out to the back alley
and making me stop breathing.
That's the only way they got rid of me the first time -- and that was
only for about 10-12 months.
I'm not playing. I'm not here for you. I'm here so that, when the
entire mess does collapse (and it will imminently), someone was here
who said it was going to. I'm not here to please your fapping off.
This isn't about money, idiot. That's why I made reference to the
SLAPP suits.
You see, I'm a believer in the Rafael Palmeiro Theory on truth
regarding libel and slander: If you didn't do what someone said you
do, your only recourse is to silence them through the courts.
Otherwise, and it'll come out eventually, that person will be right --
just as he was with Palmeiro. (And I take no pity in Canseco's
"apology" -- I'd bet someone has probably threatened his life or
something, because of the damage his exposition of the steroid culture
has done to the once-and-never-again proud world of baseball.)
> Lawsuits require effort. That's why music companies don't sue each and
> every person who downloads a song illegally: it is NOT WORTH IT. It
> takes too much effort to BOTHER for something so piddly.
And that's why the music industry is losing money badly. They'd lose
a lot more if they didn't pursue enough lawsuits that similarly were
"NOT WORTH IT" to make everyone believe that they WOULD sue
everybody. That's the only reason we HAVE an organized music industry
left!! Dead serious...
The anime "fandom" is a perfect example of why. Since the companies
either couldn't (and, if they could not, they couldn't afford to make
the anime anymore either, at that point) or just plain won't (at which
point, their licenses are rank worthless) go after the rank-and-file
fan and the fansubbers and CrunchyShit, there's no real industry
left. And the economy will take out what few people would buy.
You don't get it... To get what you need to do, you have to take
sufficient action. If you don't, you are left with either vigilante
action, or losing. Works on the streets, works in the society, and
works here.
> Do you understand? YOU ARE NOT WORTH IT. You are worth occasional
> mockery, harrassment, and discussion of your amusing foibles. You are
> not worth actually expending any more effort than an Abusenet post
> requires, because there's NOTHING FOR ME TO GAIN by it. Nothing for
> Farix to gain by it. By your own words, you're apparently an ex-con who
> likely hasn't got any assets to speak of. What would we sue you FOR?
Why? Because I'm still here, and you're still wrong.
Take a good long read of what I just said to Rob Kelk. You gain
nothing, after a certain point, by attempting to discredit given
people. (Not just true about me.)
If you believed half the shit you post, Sea Wasp, you'd do something
about it. Not only that, but you'd _have to_. That's just the way it
works.
Anyone with a functional copyright which they have not ceded needs to
have the right to control access. Otherwise, they have no functional
copyright, and their material can, and will, be stolen.
> Lawsuits cost time and money. I have plenty to occupy my time, and
> plenty of uses for the THOUSANDS of dollars it would cost to pursue even
> the simplest of lawsuits. If I had that much to throw around, I'd take
> my family on a vacation, buy myself a new computer, etc., etc., etc.
You're eventually going to have to do it to discredit me. If you
believe I am what you believe I am, you either have jail me or kill me
to eliminate me from your circle. Period. That's what the Net has
become.
> The same is certainly true of Farix. Someone like Bill Gates has enough
> money to just randomly pursue trivial lawsuits, if he wants, but -- wait
> for it -- it's NOT WORTH IT. He's got MUCH more important things to do
> with his time, which is worth more per minute than yours is per year.
Then FARIX -- IS -- WRONG. He does not have a functional copyright on
his Usenet posts. Nor do you. Nor do I. It is public domain when we
put it on Usenet. Asking for attribution is nothing more than a
courtesy, if that.
That's the point I'm making. If he has a functional copyright, then
he has the right to restrict Usenet access, not only to his posts, but
to any newsgroup he posts to. At that point, Usenet _fails_ because
the common agreements on which Usenet is based can no longer stand up
to legal force.
He doesn't, because he does not have a functional copyright on his
posts.
The only value which anything has in this society is that which the
gun or the gavel enforces through force. That's it. And you're about
to find out (collective you, this time) what happens when that fails.
That is only a matter of time.
> Maybe your problem is simply that you think you ARE worth it, and it
> hurts to realize that you're not. The anime industry doesn't notice you,
> we only notice you to mock you, and the rest of the world doesn't know
> you exist.
Fact is, if they think I'm going to kill Deborah Gibson (or at least
publicly said so in 1999), then I am "worth it", as a matter of legal
force. But that's not a statement I can make of my own merit --
that's a statement made for me. Period. You don't like it? I don't
care.
What disgusts me is that you are just -- plain -- factually -- full --
of -- shit. Full of it. Oozing out the ears. And I don't want to
leave your shit unanswered, because (as I just got done explaining to
Rob) you posting it here gains its own credibility.
> Oh, and you're (once more, unsurprisingly) wrong about Usenet kooks and
> trolls. MOST of them don't get jailed, sued, or driven off.
Then they don't leave and the people against them _fail_.
You don't get it. You don't jail me -- you don't have Ledford sue me
for slander (libel?) and win -- you lose. Because you are
functionally _wrong_. And you remain functionally _wrong_.
The numbers don't add up, moron. And the fact that I can't sue their
asses off or drag them into court does not change the fact that
Ledford, et. al. are committing criminal acts, and probably did with
Sojitz, and probably will continue to do with their "new investors".
> At most they get occasionally booted from an ISP that gets tired of complaints. Most
> of them don't even get that much. To get to legal action, you need to go
> beyond being a mere kook or troll like Archimedes Plutonium or Robert
> McElwaine or even Terry Austin, and become an actual stalker or menace
> (I believe the name Fabrikant is apropos).
Already been down that road. What's to say it wouldn't happen again?
I have to deal with that every day.
> Kooks on YOUR level just get made fun of. Forever. Until they stop
> being kooks, or actually get nutty enough to be REAL annoyances or
> dangers, and THEN someone -- usually living in their area, and
> potentially threatened by them -- takes action.
My presence in society is a latent threat. (Been said in two college
towns which I am no longer allowed in, for starters...) My task is to
keep that threat latent.
> You talk a lot, but you don't DO, and that makes you just an amusing
> kook or troll.
Deborah Gibson would like to have some words with you on that regard.
So would Cathy Harris.
When you get compared in open court by a judge to Mark David Chapman,
you don't just talk. You've already "done".
Mike
selaboc
> I wouldn't be here if I had my own way about things.
You have the power to not be here any time you don't want to be here.
No one if forcing you to be here.
> I'm not playing. I'm not here for you.
We know, you're here so you can fap in public. I don't think there's
anyone in this group who isn't aware of that by now.
> You're eventually going to have to do it to discredit me.
In order to discredit you, you'd actually have to be credible first.
Since you've never been, there's nothing to discredit.
> > Oh, and you're (once more, unsurprisingly) wrong about Usenet kooks and
> > trolls. MOST of them don't get jailed, sued, or driven off.
>
> Then they don't leave and the people against them _fail_.
>
> You don't get it. You don't jail me -- you don't have Ledford sue me
> for slander (libel?) and win -- you lose. Because you are
> functionally _wrong_. And you remain functionally _wrong_.
>
> The numbers don't add up, moron. And the fact that I can't sue their
> asses off or drag them into court does not change the fact that
> Ledford, et. al. are committing criminal acts, and probably did with
> Sojitz, and probably will continue to do with their "new investors".
>
You don't get it. You don't jail Ledford or get his creditors and
investors to sue him and win - you lose. Because you are functionally
_wrong_. And you remain functionally _wrong_. :-)
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> On Oct 24, 11:26 am, darkstar7...@gmail.com wrote:
>> I wouldn't be here if I had my own way about things.
>
> You have the power to not be here any time you don't want to be here.
> No one if forcing you to be here.
He mentioned a power greater than himself and not of this earth.
Apparently he believes that space aliens are keeping him here. Or maybe
Cthulhu. Or Sailor Moon.
>
>> I'm not playing. I'm not here for you.
Oh, but you ARE here for us. You entertain us. You just did it again.
Dance, my puppet, dance on our strings!
>
> We know, you're here so you can fap in public. I don't think there's
> anyone in this group who isn't aware of that by now.
And to talk at length about how big and bad he is, when his actual
conversation reveals he's just pathetic.
>
>> You're eventually going to have to do it to discredit me.
>
> In order to discredit you, you'd actually have to be credible first.
> Since you've never been, there's nothing to discredit.
He thinks that because he's on Usenet he started out with credibility.
Okay, I may be giving too much credit to him with the "thinks" part.
>
>
>>> Oh, and you're (once more, unsurprisingly) wrong about Usenet kooks and
>>> trolls. MOST of them don't get jailed, sued, or driven off.
>> Then they don't leave and the people against them _fail_.
>>
>> You don't get it. You don't jail me -- you don't have Ledford sue me
>> for slander (libel?) and win -- you lose.
How do I lose, when I have no particular interest in jailing you, or
even shutting you up? I'm amused by you. You KEEP amusing me. You give
me someone to point to when I want to say "and THERE is a classic
example of a Usenet Luser!".
I would like one day for you to realize how much of a luser you are and
face the truth, but I don't expect it to happen -- and legal action
never forced anyone to believe anything, so it's pointless.
>Because you are
>> functionally _wrong_. And you remain functionally _wrong_.
>>
>> The numbers don't add up, moron.
Where are the numbers up above? There are no numbers. You know, it
would be nice if Dorkstar could actually follow a conversation longer
than a sentence.
>> And the fact that I can't sue their
>> asses off or drag them into court does not change the fact that
>> Ledford, et. al. are committing criminal acts, and probably did with
>> Sojitz, and probably will continue to do with their "new investors".
>>
>
> You don't get it. You don't jail Ledford or get his creditors and
> investors to sue him and win - you lose. Because you are functionally
> _wrong_. And you remain functionally _wrong_. :-)
>
What he's most wrong about is that he thinks those who argue with him
see it as a goal to shut him up and make him go away. No, we either want
him to keep entertaining us, or to VOLUNTARILY shut up and go away when
he realizes no one cares about what he says, or -- through some miracle
-- Get A Clue.
None of the above, of course, would ever involve legal action.
Rob Kelk
>On Oct 23, 3:30=A0pm, robk...@deadspam.com (Rob Kelk) wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Oct 2008 18:53:10 GMT, Derek Janssen
>>
>> <ejan...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote:
>> >darkstar7...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>> >> If you believe a kook has gone to that level, you cannot discredit
>> >> them without removing them -- with legal force, as and if necessary.
>>
>> What, did he *really* say that? <shakes head in disbelief>
>
>Absolutely. I really did say that.
>
>> First free clue: In order to be discredited, you first have to have
>> been creditable.
>
>USENET, to its great detriment, provides its own credibility.
Child, I used to be paid to work on Usenet. I'm still a member of the
Ottawa News Administrators Group (ONAG). I'm an insider, and I say
Usenet's credibility is exactly zero.
(You've accepted an insider's word before when you quoted Nabeshin
regarding fansubs, so I expect you to be consistent and take my word
regarding Usenet now. Unless you're willing to admit Nabeshin might
have been wrong, that is.)
More generally, the medium used to disseminate a message does not grant
credibility to (or remove credibility from) that message. Claiming
otherwise invokes the Appeal To Anonymous Authority fallacy.
<discussion based on false premise snipped>
>> Second free clue: =A0A net.kook can be removed by cutting off his access
>> to any ISPs he can reach. =A0This is most easily done by someone who is
>> employed by another ISP (or NSP, in the case of Usenet). =A0It can also b=
>e
>> done by someone with access to a recognized antispam 'bot and
>> willingness to use it in a personal vendetta.
>
>I'm actually surprised some of you haven't tried.
>
>Here's the problem: That works in theory. But, unless you can
>physically bar the person from entering every public library, Internet
>cafe, and the like in the country, you can't keep them off of all
>ISPs. That's why the concept of a "Usenet Death Penalty (UDP)" no
>longer really functionally works without jailing the person or
>eliminating them.
>
>(A Usenet Death Penalty, for those who do not know, used to be the
>realistic "last resort" to maintain what was perceived to be "order"
>on Usenet. Any message that a person under a UDP would have would be
>cancelled, presumptively by enough servers that the person would be
>run off of Usenet once and for all and finally.)
You have so little understanding of what a Usenet Death Penalty actually
is that it's not even laughable. UDPs are not (and to the best of my
knowledge have never been) enacted against a person; they're enacted
against an entire ISP.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Usenet+Death+Penalty
http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/U/Usenet-Death-Penalty.html
<discussion based on false premise snipped>
>> (Yes, I do happen to have access to a recognized antispam 'bot. I don't
>> care enough about anyone who isn't actually damaging the network to want
>> to kick them off Usenet. But I'm one of the "good guys".)
>
>Well, that, more, depends on how you interpret "damaging the network"
I'm using the standard definition; see the above two links for the gist.
>-- which see the concept of a UDP. I'm actually shocked some of you
>guys haven't tried it.
Should we try it? If "yes", when did you start spamming?
>> If you want more clues, you're going to have earn them with good
>> behaviour: no more name-calling, no more stating opinions as fact, no
>> more refusing to look at evidence.
>
>Then I get no more clues from you. You are trying to alter what is
>considered truth.
No, I am attempting to alter your behaviour online. Behaviour has
nothing to do with truth.
<snip>
(And I thought I re-scored my killfile to ignore you completely...
<sigh> B'bye, I hope...)
--
Rob Kelk Personal address (ROT-13): eboxryx -ng- tznvy -qbg- pbz
"Aggresive killfiling. I highly recommend it. It isn't personal;
there's just a limited number of hours in the day."
- Russ Allbery (<http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>), in message
<yl66l68...@windlord.stanford.edu>
darkst...@gmail.com
> On Oct 24, 11:26 am, darkstar7...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > I wouldn't be here if I had my own way about things.
>
> You have the power to not be here any time you don't want to be here.
> No one if forcing you to be here.
Not what I meant... Please read for comprehension.
I have said even to therapists with legal authority (and obligation)
to report that the only reason I haven't done some very unfortunate
things is literally "There, but for the grace of God, go I."
It ain't me. Trust me on that one.
> > I'm not playing. I'm not here for you.
>
> We know, you're here so you can fap in public. I don't think there's
> anyone in this group who isn't aware of that by now.
But you should well know public masturbation is illegal in most
states.
(Sorry, had to...)
> > You're eventually going to have to do it to discredit me.
>
> In order to discredit you, you'd actually have to be credible first.
> Since you've never been, there's nothing to discredit.
Read my response to Rob _again_. That I am here grants its own
credibility.
Otherwise, you have truth through consensus. Truth, then, is no
longer a matter of fact, but a matter of "common sense". Sense in
common, whether the facts back it up or not.
That applies quite well to you lot. Also seems to apply quite well to
society at large.
> > You don't get it. You don't jail me -- you don't have Ledford sue me
> > for slander (libel?) and win -- you lose. Because you are
> > functionally _wrong_. And you remain functionally _wrong_.
>
> > The numbers don't add up, moron. And the fact that I can't sue their
> > asses off or drag them into court does not change the fact that
> > Ledford, et. al. are committing criminal acts, and probably did with
> > Sojitz, and probably will continue to do with their "new investors".
>
> You don't get it. You don't jail Ledford or get his creditors and
> investors to sue him and win - you lose. Because you are functionally
> _wrong_. And you remain functionally _wrong_. :-)
Wish I could get the cops to listen to me on such matters.
Mike (Of course, I also wish the FCC would investigate KGO Radio on
whether they knew of Bernie Ward's side project that got him in the
federal pen.)
Derek Janssen
But let me guess--Either they ignore you, laugh, or think you're a geeky
fanboy nut?
(...So, how is this group *not* a microcosm of real-world experience?)
Derek Janssen (think of us as an early indicator)
eja...@verizon.net
darkst...@gmail.com
<seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> selaboc wrote:
> > On Oct 24, 11:26 am, darkstar7...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> I wouldn't be here if I had my own way about things.
>
> > You have the power to not be here any time you don't want to be here.
> > No one if forcing you to be here.
>
> He mentioned a power greater than himself and not of this earth.
> Apparently he believes that space aliens are keeping him here. Or maybe
> Cthulhu. Or Sailor Moon.
Why choose the lesser evil, eh?
> >> I'm not playing. I'm not here for you.
>
> Oh, but you ARE here for us. You entertain us. You just did it again.
> Dance, my puppet, dance on our strings!
No. Such strings would require that I agree with you. In fact,
sicko: You are actually proposing I do so by agreeing with you when
the facts show absolutely otherwise.
> > We know, you're here so you can fap in public. I don't think there's
> > anyone in this group who isn't aware of that by now.
>
> And to talk at length about how big and bad he is, when his actual
> conversation reveals he's just pathetic.
Let's put it this way: Ignore me at your peril. That was a shirt I
heard a friend tell me about. I need to find that shirt. I mean, I
don't have to tell you how big and bad I am. Unless you got a gun or
a Bubba who can rape me, I've taken far worse than you, bitch.
> >> You're eventually going to have to do it to discredit me.
>
> > In order to discredit you, you'd actually have to be credible first.
> > Since you've never been, there's nothing to discredit.
>
> He thinks that because he's on Usenet he started out with credibility.
> Okay, I may be giving too much credit to him with the "thinks" part.
Anyone on USENET starts out with credibility.
Anyone still on USENET has a degree of credibility, by definition.
Otherwise, you must then come to a point where truth and fact are
separated. Truth (and what is considered "credible") becomes only a
matter of public consensus -- facts be damned. So then you'd all be
fapping in a circle.
That's why I'm here -- to tell everyone else that there's a bunch of
anime fans in one big fat criminal circle jerk.
> >> You don't get it. You don't jail me -- you don't have Ledford sue me
> >> for slander (libel?) and win -- you lose.
>
> How do I lose, when I have no particular interest in jailing you, or
> even shutting you up? I'm amused by you. You KEEP amusing me. You give
> me someone to point to when I want to say "and THERE is a classic
> example of a Usenet Luser!".
Because those are the only ways you defeat a proposed "Usenet Loser".
I mean, if that was sufficient, I could just point, laugh, call the
anime fandom at large the losers they most certainly are, and then
basically we accomplish -- get this now -- NOTHING.
Not a damned thing gets accomplished by the point and laugh -- except
when it gets to the point (for some people) that words are not enough.
I've already been deemed gone there once. And if they're going to
tell me what I was going to do to someone I supposedly cared about,
who the fuck do you think you are, Sea Wasp, to think you'll get any
better than she did?
> I would like one day for you to realize how much of a luser you are and
> face the truth, but I don't expect it to happen -- and legal action
> never forced anyone to believe anything, so it's pointless.
No. In fact, that's where you have it wrong -- completely.
Legal action is the ONLY WAY to establish that degree of "loss". And,
again, you are trying to impose truth without fact.
The only "truth" of the matter is: If you _are_ right, then they need
to lock me up before I have nothing left to lose.
That is truth -- and it has facts to back it up.
> >Because you are
> >> functionally _wrong_. And you remain functionally _wrong_.
>
> >> The numbers don't add up, moron.
>
> Where are the numbers up above? There are no numbers. You know, it
> would be nice if Dorkstar could actually follow a conversation longer
> than a sentence.
"Follow a conversation longer than a sentence" = "bend down, suck my
dick, and worship every thought I have as gospel"
No thanks, Sea Wasp.
> >> And the fact that I can't sue their
> >> asses off or drag them into court does not change the fact that
> >> Ledford, et. al. are committing criminal acts, and probably did with
> >> Sojitz, and probably will continue to do with their "new investors".
>
> > You don't get it. You don't jail Ledford or get his creditors and
> > investors to sue him and win - you lose. Because you are functionally
> > _wrong_. And you remain functionally _wrong_. :-)
>
> What he's most wrong about is that he thinks those who argue with him
> see it as a goal to shut him up and make him go away. No, we either want
> him to keep entertaining us, or to VOLUNTARILY shut up and go away when
> he realizes no one cares about what he says, or -- through some miracle
> -- Get A Clue.
It won't be voluntary. It wasn't last time. It won't be this time.
And I guess I can add "Get A Clue" to the above equation and start
creating a TFAE (The Following Are Equivalent).
Believe me, if you believed half the shit you post about me, bitch,
you'd understand that there would come a point (I'm not there _yet_ --
as I said, "There, but for...") where you would no longer be
entertained. It's all fun and games, until someone loses an eye.
I'm not going to sit idly and watch you spew crap absolving you as a
fanbase of rampant criminal conduct in an open attempt to destroy the
industry. And I'm not going to let the industry spew crap to
investors to try to defraud them out of money to keep them afloat.
If David Williams wants to quit posting to bulletin boards because he
doesn't like fans stating he's lying, here's one piece of advice:
STOP LYING.
I mean, we have a company bleeding money, cutting basically every
program, liquidating its machinery, firing almost everyone who was on
the staff (and there are people much closer to this than I who are
stating this -- get out of the circle and start reading more!), and,
yet, they come to us and claim they will have money to keep going,
even after it was clear that Sojitz wanted nothing to do with them
because ADV sold them up the fucking river???
If you don't believe that's a problem, then you certainly fit in well
with the anime fandom who wants to sexually assault Caitlin Glass in
Las Vegas.
(And, yes, I will go that far. A fan actually asked if she could
grope Caitlin's breasts. That, my "friends", is sexual assault -- and
that lady should've been escorted out by the Las Vegas Police Dept.)
> None of the above, of course, would ever involve legal action.
Sorry. Disagree entirely.
You see, the more I view American "civilization" (and, remember that I
put the quotes on that because I do not believe we are anything
civilized), the more it becomes obvious that the only way to enforce a
behavior is to legislate it. You want a person out of a certain
area? Restraining order, jail, or gunpoint. That's it. You can't
suggest a behavior change. Sooner you learn that...
The only way to enforce order is to actually _enforce_ it.
Mike
Derek Janssen
>>
>> And to talk at length about how big and bad he is, when his actual
>>conversation reveals he's just pathetic.
>
> Let's put it this way: Ignore me at your peril. That was a shirt I
> heard a friend tell me about. I need to find that shirt.
Good. Make it a *clean* one, for a change.
In the real world, we've ignored you for a year now, when's the peril
gonna START, just to break up the monotony?
> Believe me, if you believed half the shit you post about me, bitch,
> you'd understand that there would come a point
> where you would no longer be entertained.
Done, and done. 9_9
Derek Janssen
eja...@verizon.net
Sea Wasp (Ryk E. Spoor)
> darkst...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> And to talk at length about how big and bad he is, when his
>>> actual
>>> conversation reveals he's just pathetic.
>>
>> Let's put it this way: Ignore me at your peril. That was a shirt I
>> heard a friend tell me about. I need to find that shirt.
>
> Good. Make it a *clean* one, for a change.
>
> In the real world, we've ignored you for a year now, when's the peril
> gonna START, just to break up the monotony?
Never. He'd have to get up from his chair, and he's stuck to it.
>
>> Believe me, if you believed half the shit you post about me, bitch,
>> you'd understand that there would come a point
>> where you would no longer be entertained.
>
> Done, and done. 9_9
Oh, he still entertains me.
One of the funnier things he just said was the bit about me being an
example of the worst of the "entitlement" group. Me, who's paid for all
the anime I have. Who's never downloaded material. Who's discouraged
people constantly from doing so. Who's TESTIFIED against one of the
filesharing groups -- yes, under oath, for real.
Which is VASTLY more than Chicken Little has ever done.
But no, *I* am the Worst Example, and he -- doing nothing but ranting
-- is the Shining Light. Because, unlike him, I actually see reality and
know things have to change with it.
If that's not funny, I don't know what is.
Captain Nerd
Actually, it's sad that someone like that has grown to (chronological)
adulthood, and hasn't yet learned that he's not the center of the
Universe, and that Wishing Doesn't Make It So.
Derek Janssen
>
> ...Eee-RADICATOR!!!^1
Oh, don't get so down-hearted--
Never forget, that if you ever feel the world is laughing at you, just
remember that we laughed at you first. :)
Derek Janssen (1 - There's gotta be *one* old-school Kids in the Hall
fan out there who still gets the ref)
eja...@verizon.net
sanjian
"Derek Janssen" <eja...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote in message
news:3ZxMk.228$Jv2...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
Sorry, that was after my time.
Derek Janssen
> "Derek Janssen" <eja...@nospam.verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:3ZxMk.228$Jv2...@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
>>darkst...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>...Eee-RADICATOR!!!
>>
>
Oh, well, that's what YouTube's for: ^_^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8f23IRy554
Derek Janssen (the parallels are frightening)
eja...@verizon.net
darkst...@gmail.com
for the record of the intelligent lurkers:
On Oct 24, 3:57 pm, robk...@deadspam.com (Rob Kelk) wrote:
> On Fri, 24 Oct 2008 07:51:51 -0700 (PDT), darkstar7...@gmail.com wrote:
> >USENET, to its great detriment, provides its own credibility.
>
> Child, I used to be paid to work on Usenet. I'm still a member of the
> Ottawa News Administrators Group (ONAG). I'm an insider, and I say
> Usenet's credibility is exactly zero.
I was going to ask if you were Rod Speed, but he's from Australia and
this looks like Canada.
Here's the problem with your statement: The credibility of Usenet to
its administrators is about as relevant to the public as the
credibility of the anime industry to the "fanbase". As in, there is
no such relevance.
If it were otherwise, especially given certain news-worthy events I am
sure you are aware of (and not just in relation to Usenet, but the
Internet at large), you'd have two options:
1) Police Usenet much more tightly
or
2) Shut the whole damn mess off and throw the baby out with the
bathwater.
If the credibility of Usenet is zero (and I've had other insiders
state the same thing, over the course of time), then you devolve to
truth absent fact -- truth by consensus, if you will. At that point,
some really "interesting" results can occur, as I am sure you are
aware.
(And some tragic ones as well.)
> (You've accepted an insider's word before when you quoted Nabeshin
> regarding fansubs, so I expect you to be consistent and take my word
> regarding Usenet now. Unless you're willing to admit Nabeshin might
> have been wrong, that is.)
The only way the latter would be is a matter of his playing into the
criminal-level fraud which such a statement would require. Now, if
you wish to go there, I won't stop you -- as I've said for a long
time, this is where we _MIGHT_ be able to have a reasoned discussion.
I just want you to basically accept that it would require that he's
also committing criminal fraud, in a deceptive effort to get more
money out of people.
The problem is the concept between a working agreement and actually
legally binding ownership. Usenet only has the former -- the anime
industry has the latter. Usenet is a perfect example of what happens
when you do not have the iron fist of law over people's heads.
> More generally, the medium used to disseminate a message does not grant
> credibility to (or remove credibility from) that message. Claiming
> otherwise invokes the Appeal To Anonymous Authority fallacy.
Exactly, and many people on the Internet do exactly that (Appeal to
Anonymous Authority). Some tend to use that, absent fact, to gain
consensus of a statement as "truth" without any fact to back it up.
Get enough people to believe it over a sufficient period of time, and
it becomes (at least inside the medium), "truth".
That's exactly what happens on Usenet. It's no fallacy. Of course,
the only reason that works for a lot of people is that most of the
Internet world doesn't have a functional 5th-grade literacy level
anymore.
> <discussion based on false premise snipped>
That premise? Not false. You just believe it so. You could snip the
entire remainder of the post at that point -- because ALL OF IT, then,
is, IYODO, "based on false premise". You could've ended the post
right there.
> >I'm actually surprised some of you haven't tried.
>
> >Here's the problem: That works in theory. But, unless you can
> >physically bar the person from entering every public library, Internet
> >cafe, and the like in the country, you can't keep them off of all
> >ISPs. That's why the concept of a "Usenet Death Penalty (UDP)" no
> >longer really functionally works without jailing the person or
> >eliminating them.
That kind of stuff could've worked 10-15 years ago. By now, any bum
can walk into a public library, sit down, and use the Net.
> >(A Usenet Death Penalty, for those who do not know, used to be the
> >realistic "last resort" to maintain what was perceived to be "order"
> >on Usenet. Any message that a person under a UDP would have would be
> >cancelled, presumptively by enough servers that the person would be
> >run off of Usenet once and for all and finally.)
>
> You have so little understanding of what a Usenet Death Penalty actually
> is that it's not even laughable. UDPs are not (and to the best of my
> knowledge have never been) enacted against a person; they're enacted
> against an entire ISP.
Actually, they used to -- years and years ago -- be applied to single
posters (*WHEN THE CONCEPT COULD BE WORKABLE*). That would take some
deep searching, but they used to try to apply them to particularly
malicious single posters.
> >> (Yes, I do happen to have access to a recognized antispam 'bot. I don't
> >> care enough about anyone who isn't actually damaging the network to want
> >> to kick them off Usenet. But I'm one of the "good guys".)
>
> >Well, that, more, depends on how you interpret "damaging the network"
>
> I'm using the standard definition; see the above two links for the gist.
As I said, it depends on how you interpret it. It could be easily
interpreted that my presence here "damages" the Usenet "network" with
all the crap (again, IYODO) that I spew. The signal-to-noise
basically goes to zero, and, then, why are we wasting the space with
these "newsgroups", again?
> >-- which see the concept of a UDP. I'm actually shocked some of you
> >guys haven't tried it.
>
> Should we try it? If "yes", when did you start spamming?
That depends on your definition of "spam". I would think more than a
few of your side of this argument believe I started "spamming" the day
I began posting on RAAM.
> >> If you want more clues, you're going to have earn them with good
> >> behaviour: no more name-calling, no more stating opinions as fact, no
> >> more refusing to look at evidence.
>
> >Then I get no more clues from you. You are trying to alter what is
> >considered truth.
>
> No, I am attempting to alter your behaviour online. Behaviour has
> nothing to do with truth.
Then you have to legislate that with legal force. You cannot change a
behavior without the force of law behind it. That's why parents often
have to get violent with children. (And my dad had to get VERY
violent with me.)
(Absent that, you are now seeing parents drive their children to the
state of Nebraska to legally abandon them, because they can no longer
handle raising them and what they do. Not saying that's a desired
result -- nor, necessarily, is parental violence. But there is merit
to the concept of "spare the rod, spoil the child".)
> (And I thought I re-scored my killfile to ignore you completely...
> <sigh> B'bye, I hope...)
Your only real hope is, either, a moderated newsgroup, jailing me, or
some sort of full-out screen to toss me off Usenet once and for all.
Mike
darkst...@gmail.com
> Actually, it's sad that someone like that has grown to (chronological)
> adulthood, and hasn't yet learned that he's not the center of the
> Universe, and that Wishing Doesn't Make It So.
If that were actually true, the actions I would take consistent with
that declaration would've had me either executed outright or in the
process toward same.
Mike (Though, points for understanding why I have had to concede that
it isn't anything with me which has kept me from that... Without an
entity greater than oneself, there is no other conclusion to draw than
one being the Center of the Universe. That's why we are such an evil
bastardization of how we were created.)
darkst...@gmail.com
<seaw...@sgeinc.invalid.com> wrote:
> Derek Janssen wrote:
> > darkstar7...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >>> And to talk at length about how big and bad he is, when his
> >>> actual
> >>> conversation reveals he's just pathetic.
>
> >> Let's put it this way: Ignore me at your peril. That was a shirt I
> >> heard a friend tell me about. I need to find that shirt.
>
> > Good. Make it a *clean* one, for a change.
> > In the real world, we've ignored you for a year now, when's the peril
> > gonna START, just to break up the monotony?
When I have nothing left to lose, and when the grace of something much
larger than I is no longer enough.
I pray that doesn't happen -- for there are already a couple of
examples in the recent anime culture of what happens if that day ever
does come.
(That's why I spit at a lot of the anime culture.)
> Never. He'd have to get up from his chair, and he's stuck to it.
In that case, I'd never have been arrested the first time. Wrong
again, bitch.
> >> Believe me, if you believed half the shit you post about me, bitch,
> >> you'd understand that there would come a point
> >> where you would no longer be entertained.
>
> > Done, and done. 9_9
OK, so what are you going to actually _DO_ about it?
> Oh, he still entertains me.
>
> One of the funnier things he just said was the bit about me being an
> example of the worst of the "entitlement" group. Me, who's paid for all
> the anime I have. Who's never downloaded material. Who's discouraged
> people constantly from doing so. Who's TESTIFIED against one of the
> filesharing groups -- yes, under oath, for real.
You are. And I think you are a lying sack of shit about a lot of what
you say here too. Show me the paperwork. Show me you actually give
two damns about copyright. Because, if you did, Sea Wasp, you
wouldn't pollute this newsgroup with half the shit you post.
You believe in the entitlement of the criminal fanbase in the face of
an industry losing BILLIONS a year. (At least $1B in DVD sales, and
God only knows how much else in subsidiary stuff.)
> But no, *I* am the Worst Example, and he -- doing nothing but ranting
> -- is the Shining Light. Because, unlike him, I actually see reality and
> know things have to change with it.
The only "change" you realistically support is the absolute end of the
anime industry (whether you actually *believe* that to be true,
though, is another statement...).
(That is one of the reasons that I believe you will get your way.
Rampant thievery will never be stopped, and the anime industry, on
both sides of the Pacific, will die. No more anime at all made in 4+
years.)
Mike