Advise a newbie: very hard water
Paul S Secinaro
Hi folks,
I'm a beginner who's still in the planning stage for my first tank.
I've been lurking here for a few weeks and have been absorbing as much
as I can from the recommended websites (www.thekrib.com and a few
others).
So, the other night I finally bought some equipment: a Red Sea test
kit and a few other odds and ends. I wanted to test my water first so
I could figure out the best fish and plants to shoot for.
Well, I was disappointed to find that the well water in my apartment
complex is extremely hard -- about 27-28 dH in the GH test. (I
haven't tested for KH yet). From what I've been reading, this is way
out of line for most of the easy beginner fish and plant species.
Most of the material I've read suggests that RO is just about the only
way to deal with hard water. Also, my tap water isn't chlorinated,
which rules out a cheap CTA filter. But I really don't want to invest
$150+ in a good TFC unit, especially since they look like a pain to
operate, and I don't really have any place where I can hook one up
without putting a frequently-used kitchen or bathroom faucet out of
commission for 8+ hours. Furthermore, none of the LFS's around here
carry them, or the replacement carts for them, meaning I'd have to
rely solely on mail order sources.
So am I stuck or do I have any other options? I've read that peat has
some water softening capability, but would it be enough in my case?
I'm planning on starting with a 15-20 gallon tank, so I really
wouldn't need to treat that much water...after the initial fill I'd
only need about 5 gallons every two weeks for water changes.
Also, Aquarium Pharmaceuticals makes an inexpensive tap water purifier
that uses a disposable filter cartridge. I believe I've read messages
steering people away from this unit because the filter doesn't last
very long, but I'd only need 2-3 gallons to mix with the tap water
every couple of weeks, so I'm hoping I could get a few months of life
out of a cartridge. Also, it's fast...about 10 gallons/hr meaning I
could produce a sufficient quantity of filtered water almost in
real-time.
I'd appreciate any feedback, and apologize if this has been covered in
a FAQ somewhere. But most of what I've read focuses on carbonate
hardness and pH control. Right now the water purifier looks like a
good bet, maybe augmented by a small bag of peat in my filter (I
bought an Aquaclear 200). Alternatively I could just buy some
distilled water when I needed it.
Paul
ole larsen
For the African Riff(?)valley ciclids and for most live bearers, this GH is
fine,
but it takes a little thought to find suitable plants. It is possible,
though.
Keep on and have fun
Paul S Secinaro skrev i meddelelsen <71q2sm$9...@mozz.unh.edu>...
jpede...@yahoo.com
hardness is important in breeding some species, but I've never had a problem
keeping fish in hard water. In fact, your apartment water is probably the
same water hardness as the water the fish store uses. So my advice is not to
worry about it.
However, a cheap solution to your problem would be to buy a few gallons of
distilled water and maybe mix it 50/50 with your tap water. That would reduce
the hardness. It goes without saying to NEVER KEEP FISH IN PURE DISTILLED
WATER.
But I don't worry about it. I replace evaporated water with hard tap water,
but I don't think my hardness builds up because I do frequent water changes.
Good luck.
In article <71q2sm$9...@mozz.unh.edu>,
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pti...@yahoo.com
> I'm a beginner who's still in the planning stage for my first tank.
> I've been lurking here for a few weeks and have been absorbing as much
> as I can from the recommended websites (www.thekrib.com and a few
> others).
Glad to have you around and it is always nice to hear from a beginner who is
actually researching FIRST before investing in a setup and livestock. Most of
the time, the first time we here from beginners, their messages usually begin
with "Help, all my fish are dropping dead!" and then goes on to talk about
how they know nothing about fish and just set up a tank and only now that
they are having problems has it occurred to them to look into finding out a
little about their fish and fish keeping in general. Anyway, on with the
question...
> So, the other night I finally bought some equipment: a Red Sea test
> kit and a few other odds and ends. I wanted to test my water first so
> I could figure out the best fish and plants to shoot for.
Good start!
> Well, I was disappointed to find that the well water in my apartment
> complex is extremely hard -- about 27-28 dH in the GH test. (I
> haven't tested for KH yet).
I am not familiar with the Red Sea tests, so just to verify, are you sure
that this test only measures the "permanent" hardness of your water and not
the total hardness which is the GH and KH together. Problem is, many people
and companies will use GH for just the non-carbonate hardness levels and
others will use GH for the total hardess so sometimes you have to really read
the directions closely to be sure what you think you are measuring and what
the kit manufacture is telling you is "GH" is really what you are measuring.
Does that make sense?
> From what I've been reading, this is way
> out of line for most of the easy beginner fish and plant species.
Ya, plants might be a problem, but as always, I got to suggest that if you are
willing to give it a shot, Java Ferns could turn out to do well in your tank.
Fish are not that bad of a problem. Granted most tetras and barbs are not
going to be overly happy in your water, many live bearers (guppies,
swordtails, etc) will do fine in your water. Rainbow fish and African
cichlids also do well in hard water although you will have to research as to
which ones are considered suitable to beginners. Also, while many South
American species tend to come from soft acidic water, many of the central
American fish tend to come from harder alkaline waters, so you might look at
some of those carefully. I know that is the case with many of the Central
American cichlids, although most of them also tend to get too big for your
planned tank. But you get the idea.
Snails will probably love your water too and some of the larger ones are very
interesting and might help with algae control if you feel you might have
trouble with some of the more commonly sold algae eating fish with your
water.
> I've read that peat has
> some water softening capability, but would it be enough in my case?
> I'm planning on starting with a 15-20 gallon tank, so I really
> wouldn't need to treat that much water...after the initial fill I'd
> only need about 5 gallons every two weeks for water changes.
Peat moss one one thing you can try. Cheaper if you buy it at garden
supplies and just make sure it is pure peat with no pesticides added. One way
it to buy a new 33 gallon trashcan with lid and stuff it with peat and fill
with water. then you can draw water out of there as needed for water changes
and then top of the trashcan. Note that the water might be rather yellowish
due to the peat, but many people like that look (like an Amazon river scene),
fish certainly don't mind it, and other people simply filter that water
through activated carbon to remove the color as best they can.
Boiling will remove some of the carbonate hardness BTW (which is why you get
that hard water scale on your tea kettle). Boil, allow to cool, then siphon
off the water leaving the scale behind. Did you ever test to see what your pH
level is? Boiling your water to remove carbonate hardness can help to lower
pH in some cases.
> Also, Aquarium Pharmaceuticals makes an inexpensive tap water purifier
No experience with it. Sorry.
> Right now the water purifier looks like a
> good bet, maybe augmented by a small bag of peat in my filter (I
> bought an Aquaclear 200). Alternatively I could just buy some
> distilled water when I needed it.
Ya distilled water might work well if you only need a couple gallons a week
to mix with your tap water to dilute it. Some local fish stores also sell RO
water, especially the ones that sell lots of marine/reef livestock. So
compare their prices to distilled water.
Depending on where you live, some people are able to collect rainwater for
tank use. If you live somewhere that gets a lot of rain, the old rain barrow
trick might help to suppliment your water needs. If in doubt you can always
run this water though the AP water purifier which would have the advantage of
not running through replacement cartridges nearly as fast as your hard well
water might.
Let us know what happens.
--
Patrick Timlin --- http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/4742/
pti...@yahoo.com
Mike
>
> Paul S Secinaro wrote:
> >
>
> > Also, Aquarium Pharmaceuticals makes an inexpensive tap water purifier
> > steering people away from this unit because the filter doesn't last
> > very long, but I'd only need 2-3 gallons to mix with the tap water
> > every couple of weeks, so I'm hoping I could get a few months of life
> > out of a cartridge. Also, it's fast...about 10 gallons/hr meaning I
> > could produce a sufficient quantity of filtered water almost in
> > real-time.
> >
>
> refilled my 90 gal at least two times with it, and the indicator (dark
> color in the media) is still only at the half way point. I think how
> fast the cartridge dies is dependent on the water flow and the tap water
> quality you are running through it. I happen to have fairly good water
> right out of the tap. You can also buy replacement catridges for it at a
> substantial savings.
>
> If you are only going to do a few gallons a week you will get a lot of
> life from it. Just make sure you follow the directions to the letter and
> adjust your output to what they say. The water you get from it is ready
> to use. (other than for a new tank cycle) I tested the water right out
> of the filter and was very surprised at the quality.
>
> They also supply a spring thingy that you will need to put on top of the
> media in the filter. Make sure you use this, as it keeps the media
> "compacted" in the tube.
>
> I also most of the time, fill several 5 gallon containers, and let them
> sit and age with peat. When I do a 30% water change with this it's
> INSTANT spawning time for my veiled albino angels.
>
> One last note. I have never lost a fish to disease using this water. In
> fact the only fish I have lost in the last 2 years was a Bala that got
> wedged behind a rock (probably hot on the trail of a ghost shrimp) and I
> didn't find him until he was on his last legs. My tank is disease free,
> no fungus, no algae problem, PH is 6.1, amonia, nitrates, and nitrites
> are PERFECT. My ghost shrimp are even breeding, and I was told that they
> don't reproduce in aquariums. (I bought 10 and now I have at least 100
> hiding in the crevises in the slate of various sizes. The key word is
> hiding. If they show themselves they are a snack)
>
> JMHO
>
> Ron
I have a TWP from Aqaurium Pharm and it did not have this spring thingy
you are talking about (I bought it about 2years ago). Could you please
or anyone tell me more about this part.
Mike
Charles
I have good luck with goldfish, guppies, swordtails. They breed by
themselves.
I also have barbs, clown loaches, cory cats. plecostomous, and two
cardinal tetras that have lived for several years. No breeding among
this group.
I have had good luck with anacharis, egeria, I believe, valisnaria,
and some kind of sword plant, I haven't been able to identify it.
I tried RO water for a while, didn't work out for various reasons, and
so I am back to straight tap water.
Charles
Paul S Secinaro
seems to have expired off my news server already, but thanks!), I
reread the documentation more carefully, and it turns out that my test
kit defines GH as "temporary hardness" + "permanent hardness". So
with a KH of 9, my permanent hardness is really 28-9, or 19 dH. I
still bought a water purifier, but I probably won't dilute the tap
water as much (maybe a 50-50 mix), in order to preserve some of the
buffering.
Paul
pti...@yahoo.com
> seems to have expired off my news server already, but thanks!),
That was me and you are welcome.
> reread the documentation more carefully, and it turns out that my test
> kit defines GH as "temporary hardness" + "permanent hardness".
Yep, like I said, what letters or "label" they use is virtually meaningless
since alot of them get changed around. So you have to read the instructions to
find out what you are really reading.
> with a KH of 9, my permanent hardness is really 28-9, or 19 dH.
Cool, so at least your water is not quite the liquid rock you thought it was.
> still bought a water purifier, but I probably won't dilute the tap
> water as much (maybe a 50-50 mix), in order to preserve some of the
> buffering.
After you use the purifier for a while, be sure to check back in a few months
and post to rec.aquaria.tech and give your personal review of the device. I
would be very interested in hearing your experiences and I am sure others
would too.